MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: GerryB on January 19, 2011, 05:37:46 PM
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G.day All,
Farther Christmas is alive and well,he just went down our street.
Which means that i purchased a new lathe.
I paid and collected it from a local merchant who placed the huge box on to my trailer.
It weighs half a ton and there was no way i was going to get it into my shed.
So i decided to dismantle it and rebuild it in the place i decided.
Its funny but the sheds out hear in Australia are quite large compared to the units in the UK but you seem to fill them up just the same
so there is no room to swing the cat.
I finally got the packing case off and started the dismantling process.
I needed to have the whole unit moved off the trailer so the the Headstock over hung the end.
Backed the trailer to a tree on the front lawn secured the lathe to the tree and drove forward 18",great.
This enabled me to get at the various securing devices.
Removed the Motor,Electric Box,Pickoff gears,Chuck,Stedies,Head Stock etc.
Now comes the funny part,the Saddle and Apron will not part until the Gear Box with the 3 driven shafts are removed.
Does anyone have the know how as to how and in what order i need to go so that i end up with the bare lathe bed.?
GerryB
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Not knowing exactly what lathe you have, but I suspect something similar to mine.
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/crusader_lathe.htm
If it is around this size, I recommend you DON'T split it. Even taking the gap bed slug out in your warranty period will invalidate the whole warranty. Read the small print.
The other and more major worry is getting the head back on in the same position it came off, that is the reason for not removing the gap slug, they can't guarantee it will go back in the same position, although on mine, I do have jacking screws to realign the head if needed. But in all honesty, taking it apart is not something I would like to do, purely because of all the work that will be required to get it cutting spot on after it is reassembled.
Personally, what I would do in your situation is organise a lathe moving bar-b-q. A few strong fellows, some ropes, pieces of wood and a few pipe rollers will soon get it into position as it is.
Mine was moved into my shop using a 1 ton engine crane, but still required 3 people to push and pull.
Bogs
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Hi Gerry
I too have a lathe like Bogstandard's which I assume is the same as yours.
If you really want to remove the carriage from the lathe you can do it easily enough but it does require a little care. What you need to do is tap out the tapered pins that drive those drive rods and remove the bearing block from the other end of the bed. The lower switch rod does not have a tapered pin so for that one just disconnect the handle bracket from the apron gear box, if you lathe is really like mine oil will pour out as they drilled and tapped right through the side of the box!
Then you undo those socket screws on the top of the carriage which seperates the apron gear box from the saddle. Lift the apron gear box and the rods to one side. You will then be able to slide the carriage off the lathe, though I have never done that bit I believe it would be possible.
It was Chester UK's own engineer who told me how to get that apron gear box off.
Like Bogstandard, I wouldnt recommend dismantling your lathe unless you really have to but it sounds like you already have most of the heavy bits off?
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G.Day John,
Thanks for your info on removing the Gear Box and Saddle unit.
Its a pitty that the Saddle is located to the Apron by taper pins.
I could understand short location pins that would allow the Saddle to be lifted off without disturbing the rest.
Maybe when i come to reassemble the lathe i will remove the taper pins and replace them with normal straight ones.
I also came upon another problem during dismantling and that was that the Electric Box was secured to the Head Stock facing to the rear.
Now i realise that it would not be a problem if the lathe is placed in an area large enough to be able to walk all around it but how often have you seen this happen.
I know that it happens in a designed factory layout.
So seeing that my unit will have to be up against a bulkhead with no way of getting to the back i will reposition the Electric Box some where convenient.
Re the removal of the Gear Box,there are holes located on the front plate that allow the security bolts to be removed without having to remove the front plate and loosing the oil.
GerryB.
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Gerry, it sounds like you are really getting into that machine!
The apron gear box just fell off the saddle when I had disconnected the drive shafts and unscrewed the cap screws.
John
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John.
I put my back out yesterday moving targets on the range so i will be held up for a few days.
Will let you know how i get on when ime mended.
Gerry
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Gerry as was suggested go called a couple mates or 3 and ask them to help before something goes wrong and you injure yourself or the lathe. Me & a mate got mine into position and we are over 60 :D. I found it was easier to move gear out of the way, place lathe in position then replace the geared moved out. See if you can beg, borrow or buy an engine crane (cheap nowdays) and your move will be easy as :thumbup:
Cheers
Pete
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G.Day each,
Thanks for all the come backs.very much appreciated.
After a couple of days rest watching the magic box my back is on the mend.
I did not do my back in playing with the Lathe but on another activity i follow.
When i collected the Lathe from the supplier it was placed on my trailer in 3 packing box's.
The largest contained the Lathe,tray,splash back,tool box,foot operating leaver and 4 jaw chuck in a box.
The other 2 box's held the Base Cabinets.
Now it means that i drill holes in the deck where i intend to place the Lathe.
Assemble and bolt down the base,fit the tray and the foot operating leaver.
Now comes the funny part,how would you lift the Lathe up onto the base unit in a shed that already contains other machines etc.?
So this is why i intended to dismantle the Lathe so that only the base would have to be lifted by some strong buddies before the Beer and BBQ.
Rebuilding the Lathe is not a problem plus i will know more about the machine plus any modifications that i envisage like the repositioning of the Electric Box.
I dont know if any of you guys know that there are Trip Switches (3) in with the various Relays, Transformer etc that will need to be reset if tripped.
So if like me your lathe is against some bulkhead,no way will you be able to get to it. :beer:
GerryB
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Gerry,
BTW, I paid a professional to get my mill and lathe into my shop, that was all taken into account when I bought the machines. Each one took around 4 hours to get in there, and he had all the equipment to do it.
This little post is how he got the mill in. He came back a few weeks later after the suppliers had dropped the lathe off, and got it into the shop for me.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2314.msg23091#msg23091
By the sounds of it, your lathe is the same as mine. Designed to sit in the middle of the shop.
I have never used the flood coolant because the access panel is at the very back, not the front where it should be.
Mine is against a wall, like yours is going to be. In fact, I couldn't relocate the back electrical box if I wanted to, there is no room for it to go anywhere, in fact the lathe has about 25mm maneuvering space side to side, just enough to get the change gear cover off comfortably.
It was a PITA when the motor had to be changed just over a year ago, but with the help of a couple of good friends, we got the job done.
I was very inconvenient at the time, the hardest part was swinging the end of the lathe out to get to the motor, but now I am equipped with a pair of single wheeled toe jacks, which means it will be able to be swung out in minutes, job done and then back in again. That was the main reason the machine wasn't bolted to the floor, it just sits on it's 8 levelling feet (16mm bolts).
Sometimes you have to come up with alternative methods, just so that you can have the machinery you really want.
Bogs
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G.Day Bogs,
I fully understand your position,i have two other lathes (South Bend and a Myford S7) that are not bolted down.
I will have to move the S7 to another position so that i can use the space for the new acquisition.
I have decided to secure it to the deck as a friend who has the same unit has done and has found that the extra security has given him a better finish on his projects.
Maybe we should take another look at Factory installations.
I can not see that the repositioning of the Electric Box will be too traumatic.
I envisage placing it beneath the Tray or in one of the Base Units or even on the bulkhead adjacent to the lathe and realise that i will have to extend the wiring.
GerryB
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I have the same lathe and had it bolted to the concrete floor for 6 years before moving it out into the center of the shed because of how I now have it set up now. I can tell you that having it bolted down makes a big difference especially with larger unbalanced jobs. Once it goes into the new shed it will be bolted down again.
I have never had a problem with electrics on my lathe at all in 7 or more years, but I did see one bloke mount the electrical box above the head stock strait up from where it is a but forward facing and I am sure he said the original wiring reached without mod's.
Dave
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G.Day Each,Thanks for your comments etc.
Well i have finally got the Lathe down to simple Lathe Bed.
Looking back i was a little apprehensive at first in having to take the Lathe apart but now its done i am not sorry.
I have more knowledge now of its design and construction and can appreciate my purchase.
I know that the Manufacture (Who ever it is) is trying his best to supply at a fair price and congratulate him on this.
There are a few little things that i think they need to take into account.
One would be the removal of Swarf and Casting Sand before Painting.
Two would be to Paint all bare metal surfaces.
Its not until you disassemble the unit do you find out these things.
Generally the Machining and Liberal use of Cast Iron is a plus.
Mind you i have yet to run the machine and wont until i reassemble it.
When i come to rebuild in a suitable spot in my shed is will be able to do the things that were missed during assembly at the factory.
Such as Painting the parts missed.
The Instruction Manual supplied is a plus,giving a lot of information and exploded views,part no's etc.
They even give a Circuit Diagram of the Electrics for Three Phase and Single Phase.
I will have to fill the Head Stock with a suitable Oil,also the Saddle and Gear Box.
The Manual gives instructions on doing this operation also i time frame but no recommendation on the best type of oil to use.
I have been making enquiries on the best oil for the job and was recommended Mobil ISO 8/DTE 24.
Apparently this oil is available in small quantities.
Does anyone have information on the Oil issue,also suitable Oil for the Bed Ways etc?
I was once told 'never to use Engine Oil' 'or 3 In One' but when it comes down to it any thing is better than nothing.
GerryB
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The general consensus is, and also confirmed by my lathe supplier, for the gearboxes, a lightweight hydraulic oil, something like Tellus 32, the 32 is the main part, most manufacturers use that number in their hydraulic oil coding. That is also used for general lubrication about the lathe where you have the little ball oilers. Usually you can buy a gallon (or 5 litres) from farm supplies, for hydraulics on tractors etc or general engineering supplies.
For sliding surfaces, like bedways, a good general purpose bedway oil is recommended, and that usually has a 68 in it's coding. Like this
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/1-Litre-of-Multispec-Slideway-Oil.html
A litre should last at least a year, maybe a lot longer, so good insurance for little money. I tend to over lube my slideways, a big squirt at the start of each machining day, and run the bed up and down a couple of times while giving it some.
Bogs
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Thanks Bogs,
From my days in Naval Aircraft,Hydraulic Oil was ether Synthetic or Vegitable Based and depended on the type of Rubber Seals used.
If a Mechanic put Synthetic Oil in the tank then the seals would crinkle up.pressure would be lost and you went for a swim.
GerryB
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G Day Each,this will be the Third time i have attempted to write this.
I finaly moved the Myford S7 to its new position.
The space now made available for the new Lathe was viewed in the light of installing the Lathe end on and not against the Bulkhead as first envisaged.
This will allow me to install as supplied and not having to modify.
The Instruction Manual supplied give's dimentions of the mounting holes needed to secure the base to the deck.
I addvise anyone attempting instalation to take care.
If i had fitted the mounting bolts to the deck as per directions i would not have been able to fit the base correctly.
After inspecting the holes in both base's it was found that they were not alltogether square with each other.
So i set up the Base's according to the Lathe Bed and marked the deck through the holes.
The best way to do this would be to set the Lathe up completly and mark the holes,then lift the whole unit free in order to drill and fit the bolt units then to lift the Lathe up and on to the bolts,easy!
As i had dismantled my Lathe i set up the Base's to the required dimentions of the holes in the Lathe Bed.
This made it easy as i only had to mark the position of the holes,lift the Base's away,drill and fit the bolts than lift the Base's onto the Bolts.
GerryB
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Continued.
The Lathe comes with a Foot Brake assy. that attaches to a brake unit on the pully drive.
There is no mention of this unit in the Manual supplied so also no instruction as to its assembly and set up.
I did manage to down load an Instruction Manual from the Grizzly site in the USA.which dose show an exploded view of a simmular arrangement,but it is not like mine.
I have made a simulated set up that will probebly work but have not secured any thing yet i am wondering if any one has a correct assembly diagram?
This Saturday i have invited a number of likly lads (and their Familes)to a BBQ with the intention of getting them to first lift the Lathe Bed off the Trailer and into the shed.
After that they can drown their sorrows(you are invited)
GerryB
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G.Day again,
I have just taken a butchers at the rear of the Apron.
Now this is seldom seen by owners due to the complication in removing it.
The first thing i noticed was the lack of paint on the rear or the side that you dont see.
Then i noticed the Worm drive assy down on the bottom that drives the Apron and the Cross Slide,it is DRY,no lube at all.
Although it is mounted well in a cast surround there seemed no way it will be lubricated and unlike the Half Nuts that can be lubricated via the Lead Screw.
I can envisage problems in the future so am thinking about fitting an oil feed system on the lines of a copper tube topped with a suitable oil cup.
Has anyone come across this possible problem?.
GerryB
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It is all very difficult to visualise without a few pictures :worthless:
Then maybe we could comment a little more.
Bogs
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G.Day again,
I have just taken a butchers at the rear of the Apron.
Now this is seldom seen by owners due to the complication in removing it.
The first thing i noticed was the lack of paint on the rear or the side that you dont see.
Then i noticed the Worm drive assy down on the bottom that drives the Apron and the Cross Slide,it is DRY,no lube at all.
Although it is mounted well in a cast surround there seemed no way it will be lubricated and unlike the Half Nuts that can be lubricated via the Lead Screw.
I can envisage problems in the future so am thinking about fitting an oil feed system on the lines of a copper tube topped with a suitable oil cup.
Has anyone come across this possible problem?.
GerryB
Hi Gerry
I will take another look at mine but my first thought is that those parts can be reached by a long spout on an oil can?
Being in our new house with the lathe just a few steps from the kitchen table its no problem for me to check, so I did, and my worm and wheel are easy to reach from the right hand side of the gear box, either an oil can or a stick with a dob of grease would be easy to apply. Mine already looks very oily due no doubt to oil seeping out of the gear box via the shafts etc.
John
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G.Day Each,thanks for the come back.
I did give the Apron a further look at this morning with the intention of making and fitting a suitable oil way.
I was woundering wether the Worm could get some form of lubrication from the shaft that goes through the Apron casting and into the Aprons Main Box which holds oil for the lubrication of the gears.
As the lathe has not yet run(except testing during manufacture) it is possible that no oil has been able to get through and that is why its dry.
I also saw that the unit that operates the Clasp Nut and mechanisam to disengage the mechanical drive is also dry but as you say John a few squerts with the oil can and there you go.
If i had not dismantled the lathe in order to erect it in the shed i would not be aware of these possible problems.
My other two lathes(South Bend and Myford) do not seem to get problems with lubrication,or none that i am aware of.
GerryB
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G.Day Bogs,i have not missed you.
Yes i agree that a picture tell more than the words can.
I will attempt to include a few photo's during the reassembly.
GerryB
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G.Day Each.
Well the BBQ went well,i got the Guys working before the Beer and Wine began to flow.
We managed to manhandle the Bed off the Trailer and onto the Bases secured to the deck.
I have started to assemble the Lathe and came across a few problems,not to do with the disassembly but to do with the setting up of the unit as supplied.
First off there was no instructions or even a mention of the Foot operated Brake Unit.
I assembled it to what i thought was correct and put small pins in the security holes for the time being.all went well.
Unpacking the Suds Pump unit i could not help noticing a Micro Switch (WWII aircraft pattern) on the end of the cable,or so i thought.
Apparently it was a seperate cable assy.and nothingto do with the Suds Unit.
Having rewired the control box to as received,i connected the Lathe to the Mains and pressed the Button.
The Motor started to run ok but as soon as i let go of the Button it stopped.
Checking the Relays found only one was operating,traced fault to the missing micro switch which i fond fitted on the end plate of the Foot operating unit.
Fitted Micro Switch and set the mechanism to correct positions and secured.
Now i have two problems to set straight.
One where to connect the leads from the Micro Switch and two where to connect the leads for the Suds Pump,
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Continuation .-
The Wireing diagram in the Manual is of little use as there is no indication as to what the wire colours are or what the switches are.
Also there is no Suds Pump or Lamp.
So its back to tracing wiring.
I did find that the Mains cable colour for the Live Wire is BLACK,Negative is Blue and Earth Green/Yellow.
I remember when working on German Juke Boxes in the Fifties/Sixties that the Earth cable was RED.
I have managed to obtain some Oil for the Head Stock also some new Suds Oil which is Water based,like the old suds but is surpposed to be less messy than the cutting oil.
When i have got everything ship shape i will display some photo's i have taken of the setup.
GerryB
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G.Day Each,
Sorry for the time span since last note but the dreded Computer Virus struck.
I had to reinstall the whole lot and of course lost all my contacts etc.
Got it back and running ok except that i have no sound (back to the drawing board)
I have finally got the lathe up and running to my satisfaction and am very pleased with it.
I took various pictures of the build and will attempt to show you what i have achieved.
GerryB
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This is the finished set up so far,a few more mods to make in time.
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Hi Gerry,
Good to hear you go it up on the stand and all is going well.
Have you checked the gear box and apron for sand or painted over sand?
Also John H just found out filling his lathe up with oil going by the sight gauge was to low, so I would be worth taking the top off the head stock to check yours.
Dave
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G.Day Dave,
Thanks for the come back.
I did wounder at first as to the level of the oil in the headstock.
I did also wounder as to why the level sight is right under the main bearing,very dificult to see.
When i first filled the head stock with oil i placed two button magnets in the base.
The other day i decided to have a look at the inside of the box due to a new noise that had occured and was causing me to sweat a little.
I found out that because i had just changed the gearing to cut some metric threads and had meshed the gears too close together.
My own fault for being too complacent,i should have placed a sheet of writing paper between the meshing gears.
Back to the oil.
The inside was very well covered with oil and i also inspected the magnets.
Not too bad,a little fury but otherwise nothing to write home about.
I decided to run the lathe and have a look at the gear's going around in the oil,big kid.
Of course i got my comeupance by being sprayed with the stuff.
Re. the missing paint on certain parts.
It was during the dismantling that i found that various parts of the lathe(the parts that you do not see) were devoid of any paint,just bare metal.
Also there was some places that had not had the molding sand removed and had just been painted over (sprayed)
I applied suitable paint to the offending areas.
I am not disapointed with the lathe,in fact i am very pleased and glad that i dismantled the unit inorder to fit it in my workshop.
I am fiddling with the Photos,i think that they should be a little larger.
GerryB
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Hi Gerry
You will probably get a bit more stuck to the magnets as it runs in and the gears settle in. I did that oil trick with the cover off myself years ago, LOL so your not alone.
Did you see the link that I put up for John H? It gives a good look in and around parts as well as a few mods. It also shows the casting sand that had been painted over.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_photo.asp?a=13378&p=225751
The Chinese will take short cuts where ever they can and I think most machines are missing paint in places.
How did you end up getting it on the stand?
It is also a good idea at this stage to mark the spindle and the face plate/chucks in their most accurate or machined running position.
I used the letter V out of my punch set, but a centre punch mark or scribed line works just a good.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Shed%20stuff/Picture187Medium.jpg)
Now that you have it up and running we want to see some projects. :)
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Yes i also mark every time i fit a new chuck to my lathe.i stamp No.1 in line with the the origional mark on the headstock mount.
Ihave just fitted a new 5C Collet Chuck also removed the 6jaw Griptrue i had on the South Bend,striped cleaned and fitted to the new lathe.
The 6 jaw is only 5" but i like using it on most turning jobs that are usually no larger than 3/4'' in dia.
The 3 jaw chuck supplied with the lathe is very good especialy for larger dia. pieces.
Dave.how do you view the picture i placed of the lathe?
I realise that it is condensed but can you enlarge it as is.?
I can enlarge my copy to any size by selecting 'Workshop' that is printed underneath.
GerryB
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I can do that or right click on the picture and click open in new tab and it's fine.
Dave
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I have a 300x610mm Chinese gearhead lathe from Grizzley.
The basic layout of these machines seem to be about the same. There was time in early 1980's when Chinese table saws were showing up with Powermatic and Rockwell part numbers on the castings. Apparently some original non-dimension critical parts were being used to generate the sand castings.
Had read many horror stories about metal debris and sand in the gearbox. I keep a Teflon coated magnet at the bottom of the box. Didn't find any obvious sand there, but there definitely were a few metal fragments in there.
-Dick
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Gerry,
If you search thru a few of my posts, I have done a few mods that might be needed on yours.
The main one is the cross slide lock, needed if you have the DRO read head mounted on the tailstock side of the saddle. Plus if yours comes with the three metric drop in gauge gears (for the threading gauge), plus an easy to make method of zeroing up the readout on the drop in gauge. Those bits will not be needed of you make yourself a swing up threading tool.
Bogs
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G.Day Bogs,this is the forth attempt to get something on line.
The third time i accidently nudged the Mouse and lost everything writen so here goes again only this time will shorten the reply and Post.
Yes Bogs i do have a DRO fitted to the Cross Slide.
I will look up your mods and see if i can apply them.
I fited the DRO unit myself,purchased from China,very pleased.
GerryB
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Here we go again,with luck.
During the rebuild of the lathe i took a few photo's.
Starting with the sight for the lathe it was after mooving the Myford that i realised that i could place the lathe end on to the bulkhead as apposed to being up against it there by not having the trouble of repositioning the Electric Control Box,also no problems getting to the Motor if needed.
The instruction book gives dimentions for drilling the floor but when i inspected the Cabinets i found that the holes for securing to the deck were well out of true so i measured the base of the lathe and placed the cabinets accordingly and marked the floor for drilling.
GerryB
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continuation.-
Drilled the holes .fitted the security bolts and secured the cabinates,keeping fingers crossed.
Invited the Lads arround for a BarBee and before knocking back the plonk got them to manhandle the Bed and Head Stock from the trailer.
All went well so on with the BarBee.
The first photo i sent for you to see was of the complete rebuild.
It seemed a little small so asked Dave to see if he could enlarge it,no problems just Right click the photo and click the 'open new tab' and away you go.
So here are some more photo's of the rebuilding.
GerryB
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First photo's the setting up of the cabinates and base.
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Here we go again ,that was the last photo of the series so wll tr again.
Fingers crossed,
GerryB
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Sorry about some of the photo's being on their side,i did not reolise that you cannot upend them in 'new tabs'
If you click the 'Workshop' at the base of the photo you will be able to turn and enlarge
I will make sure that any photo's in future will be in the correct orientation.
GerryB
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Gerry, I have done the work for you, here are a few links to items you might like to carry out. The last one is a definite yes to do.
Cross slide lock
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=950.0
Drop in dial gear fix
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=870.0
Gear fix revisited
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=973.0
The ending of tailstock blues
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=424.0
Bogs
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Good on ya Bogs,
I have just spent the last hour trying to trace your input(which is enormus) but no luck.
I was just about to ask you for some guidance on their whareabouts when i loged on and there you were ahead of me.
Many thanks,will let you know how i get along.
GerryB
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Hi Bogs,
I had deko at the Tailstock of my lathe and it would seem that someone has heard you and done something about it.
My Tailstock is already accepting 3 morse tanged and the not tanged tools.
They eject correctly when the handle is wound back also they have a slot in the shaft so that tools that have become jammed can be unjammed by the usual method of tapping a tapered tool into the slot and thereby forcing the jammed drill or whetever out.
Am in the process of checking the other recomended mods.
GerryB
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G.Day Each,
You will notice in the last lot of photos that the last photo together with photo 4 is the attampt to fit the Foot Controled Brake unit.
In photo 4 the leaver that transfers the movement from the foot unit to the Brake unit is in place.
The last photo shows the Micro Switch in position but not secured as i was still finding out how it fitted and operated.
There was no mention of it in the Instruction Manual delivered with the lathe.
I finaly set it up and secured the various shafts etc. to how i think it should be.
On final set up it worked very well,it will stop the machine dead no matter what speed i set it to run at.
I dont purposely stop the operation with the foot brake as i think it should be used in emergency.
I do use it on the lowest speed though when cutting threads,its a God send.
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Here we go again,
The next step in setting up the lathe was to paint the unpainted arears of the Apron and the Drive Gear Box.
I was luucky that the Gear Box that drives the (thread cutting) Apron has been modified so that the security bolts that hold it in place are not now a part of the internals thereby allowing the removal without losing the oil.
The drive shafts were fitted together with the Apron,so far no problems.
Went to fit the Saddle Unit only to find that it has to be secured to the Apron,so undo the drive shafts etc and leave in place whilst the Sallle is connected to the Apron.
At about this time i received the DRO unit that i had purchased from the manufacturer in China.
This unit was identical to the one i had purchased from a company in Singapore,but was cheaper.
I did have to pay $15 extra for the supply of a smaller sized unit to fit on the side of the Saddle,as they recomended.(see photo)
I do not know wether the previous models of this lathe have two unmachined lumps on the back of their bed but mine has.
I do not know what they are for but they caused me to mount the 'X' DRO unit lower lhan i should have liked,but i have had no ploblems.
The suppliers of the DRO units also supply you with well machined pieces of Aluminium angle and plates drilled and tapped to fit the units plus capped bolts.
The only problem i came up against when fitting the RDO unit to the Saddle was that the armoured cable would not go straight out from the end of the unit but fouled against the top of the Saddle.
I had to remove again (third time) the SAddle in order to mill a small slot to allow the cable to go straight back.
I know that i could have let the cable bend out and over the saddle but i prefered to allow it to go back unhindered.
At this point i decided to mount the DRO Read Out Unit on the top of the electric box also fit an outlet to supply the unit with power.
After all that i fitted an angle poise lamp to the top of the electric box,this i have found very usefull as i can swing it around to give extra lighting to the lathe operations also the Milling Machine and a Piller Drill.
Here are a few more photos of the rebuild.
GerryB
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Hi Gerry,
Looks like you got it all organized now.
I wonder if unmachined limps in the bed is the type of bed to take a milling column like the Grizzly lathe combo?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Metal-Lathe-w-Milling-Head/G0492
Just wondering where you bought the lathe from?
Dave
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G.Day Dave,
I purchased the lathe locally,from a guy that is into the ebay selling.
I have purchased quite a number of items from him at reasonable prices.
GerryB
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Gerry,
Yours is definitely the updated version of mine.
For a start, they have swapped the apron about to the more civilised UK preferred edition, where the main feed handle is not in the way of hot swarf coming from the cutting tool and they have an access door in the box below the tailstock. I can only access mine from the back, and because my lathe is back to the wall, I have completely disconnected the suds pump as I would need to pull the heavy lathe out to clean it out. Plus of course, you have the heavily modded tailstock ram.
Whereas yours, I think, comes with a 9 speed spindle, mine has an extra couple of motor and gearbox sheaves, which gives my machine 18 speeds.
You have mounted your read head in exactly the same position as my one that came as factory fitted, but what they have done on mine is to put in a large cap screw underneath it, that protrudes out, and acts as a stop for the tailstock, to prevent it crunching into the DRO head when it is slid forwards.
When I fine adjusted my brake, I set the micro switch up so that the motor was turned off a fraction before the brake came into action. Ensuring there was never any chance of having the motor power on when the brake was applied. This also allows me to turn the motor off from the brake pedal by just a tiny touch, and if I want it, the brake by any further movement.
The very latest of these machines have gone from a d14 to a d15 mount, with a much larger spindle and thru hole, plus variable speed and larger tailstock sizes.
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/crusader_variable_speed_lathe.htm
Bogs
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G.Day Bogs,
Yes it was pointed out to me by one of the guys that helped me with the bed instalation,that the Apron traversing handle was in the prefered position.
I did not realise the worth of the position untill i went to the South Bend and rembered the times when hot swarf would pepper the back of my hands.
The brake unit works very well,i have not had to alter the sequence since i found out how it was installed.
I did have to work on the electrics for some time tracing what does what and installing the connections for the Suds Pump,Foot Brake,Halogen Lamp.
There was no information in the instruction manual so it was in my favour that i was once employed as an electronics engineer so could find my way arround.
I will have to take a look at the Tail Stock/DRO contact posibility,i never thought of that one,thanks for directing me and others who may be reading these conversations.
I have only the 9 speeds on the headstock,no problen so far.
GerryB
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G.Day Bogs,
Sorry for being a little late in reply but my computer is giving problems(ar'nt they fun)
I checked out the possible problem with the Tail Stock/Saddle contact and found that the two caped screws that secure the DRO pick up unit are about 25 thou proud,so contact the front of the Tail Stock ok.
I envisage a problem with the DRO unit being damaged if i should attempt to run off the top slide before removing the DRO.
I shall have to devise a suitable stop arrangement to prevent screwing the saddle too far forward.
A few more photos of the rebuild showing the backs of the Apron and Gear Box before i painted them.
I do realise that even if they did rust that it would not impart too much of a problem except for the disconnecting items on the Apron.
You also can see what i was on about back awhile when i saw possible problems with the lubrication of the shaft that drives the worm.
You can see now that the worm is semi enclosed in a cast iron surround that gives a sump like surround for holding lubrication.
This was what i wanted to fit a suitable oil feed pipe to before fitting to the Top Slide.
Any way i did not fit any lubrication feed but did subject the unit to plenty of oil,will keep an eye on it though.
GerryB
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:doh: :doh
I don't know what has happened there,two of the same.
Hears the other one.
GerryB
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G.Day Each.
Well i have finally got every thing up and running smoothly,well satisfied with my purchase.You may see in some of the photos that i have not secured the rear splash guard.
This is a bit of lazyness but also its a little too large,i mean you only need it about where you do most of your machining.
I do fit a Pespex shield to the rear of the chuck area which works very well.
I will have to fit something similar to the front area as i usually get sprayed with coolant when it hits the chuck.
I am toying with the idea of deviding the suds supply to enable two separate units squarting their contents.
One that is usual,to follow the cutting tool and the other to aim at a fixed point regardless of where the cross slide is.
I had trouble with the Suds Pump set up.
During extensive operation it was noted that Suds was coming from the base of the cabinet that houses the Pump.
After many attempts to locate and rectify the problem i finely found that spray was coming from the Pump half of the unit.
I removed the whole unit and removed the Pump,inspected and could only find a cotter pin fitted in a hole in the shaft just above the impelller.
I could see no use that the cotter pin was having so removed it,that cured the problem.
There must have been some reason for the cotter pin to be there,only thing i could envisage that it afforded some king of circulating effect on the suds.
If i do have to replace the pin i will have to provide a baffle/lid to stop suds splashing up.
I did do a mod on the electrics due to the suds unit being connected to the electric control box without any form of being able to disconnect.
I fitted a suitable socket inside the cabinet at the top out of the way and fitted a plug on the pump cable.
So now when i wish to remove the pump unit as a whole,to clean and service i am not encumbered by the length of cable .
Speaking of 'Suds' or coolant i read that there was available a new concoction out that was user friendly to both Lathes and oneself.
I made enquiries at my local merchant and low and behold the just had delivery.
The mixture for general machining was 20 to 1.
Pour the liquid into a container of water,give a couple of stirs with the old paint stirrer (screw driver) and away you go.
It turns a pale Blue in colour,oily to the touch,no smell and works ok.
The first time i tried it i decided to see what it did if left over night on the lathe ways and chucks etc.
Nothing,just wiped off with no marks,just an oily deposit so am very delighted.
GerryB
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G.Day Each,
I did mention a while back that i intended to make a Siamesed outlet to my Suds supply due to only the one type of outlet that traverses with the saddle.
Now this is ok but you sometimes need to direct coolant to one spot.
EG. when boring in the headstock.
But as always something else has raised it head as i was turning.
The Suds Pump for no apparent reason will only deliver full on.
I took the unit apart but could find nothing amiss.
Now the pump delivers quite a large quantity of suds but when i try to restrict the flow it goes into a stop wait,go,wait deliver some more mode.
In other words the flow now is intermittent.
There is plenty of coolant in the tank.
Anyone any suggestions?
GerryB
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Probably a centrifugal pump that isn't designed to generate much head - when you restrict the flow, back pressure increases and may exceed capability of the pump - flow then falls (reducing back pressure) -> repeating cycle.
Instead of restricting flow, could you bleed off some of the flow?
Might also be worth reviewing your piping for any additional causes of pressure drop (elbows, diameter reductions, etc.).
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Might also be worth reviewing your piping for any additional causes of pressure drop (elbows, diameter reductions, etc.).
If you are using those 'pretend to be flash' chrome plated spiral armored tubes (which as just like the ones in your bathroom shower) be very wary of them as the end fittings are really crap and tightening them up twists the thin inner hose.
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Hi John &b David,thanks for the comeback.
I understand where you are coming from,
The pump is the one supplied with the lathe.
There seems nothing wrong,well nothing i can put my finger on,with the pump.
It delivers a good qty of suds so i do not suspect a restriction in the pipe work.
I like Davids idea of bleeding off to reduce the end result.i shall look into some sort of bleed unit when i make the adapter to feed two outlets.
I have not dismantled the pump yet.i was wondering if there is some sort of bypass built in to relieve pressure if the flow is restricted.
GerryB
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A 'kick back' valve lifting could be responsible if there is one in place. Centrifugal pumps often don't have a relief valve as they are self-limiting with regards to pressure generation (though they can still suffer from overheating in no-flow conditions).
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G.Day David,
I cannot remember seeing anything about a kickback valve in the instruction book supplied with the lathe.
Sounds like a ball valve that stops the liquid from returning to the source.
Maybe it is built into the pump unit.
I will remove the pump and take a look.
As i am about it i will take apart the unit mounted on the saddle and work my way through the flexible pipes.
GerryB
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Hi.
Well i dismantled the cooling system from the nozzle right back to the Pump.
Removed the Pump and removed the base plate.
There was no non return valve or any thing else in the delivery system.
All seemed ok even blew out the flexible pipe.
I did notice that although the delivery pipes were about 6 to 7mm in bore dia.,the bore of the control valve (tap) was no more than 1/8".
Drained the tank,cleaned and inspected the Magnet that i had put there,every thing OK.
The only thing i noticed was that the Suds mixture was having an effect on the paint used on the Pump,the paint used on the Tank was OK
I also noted that the base (inlet) of the Pump was 2" from the floor of the Tank,now i realise that space is needed to allow any swarf etc to settle out but 2" is quite a few pints of liquid.
There is a dividing petition in the Tank separating the return from the take up.
Any way reassembled the unit,filled the tank and switched on.
Perfect,plenty of coolant and controllable right down to a trickle.
So what might have caused the problem in the first place?
GerryB
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So what might have caused the problem in the first place?
GerryB
Crappy hose twisted and it came untwisted when you unscrewed the end fitting. DAMHIK!
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G.Day John,
I don't think the hose was at fault,it seems well made and when i inspected the couplings etc.all was well.
A few weeks back i needed a back plate in order to fit a 5" 6Jaw chuck i had.
Looking at what was available in Oz i was disappointed at the high cost especially when considering the cost of the lathe'
I was quoted $145AU from a company in Queensland plus postage for one.
After surfing the internet i came across a company in the USA that would supply Two Back Plates plus postage for $135US.
Made the payment and within the week they arrived.
I also purchased a 5C Collet Chuck so machined the first Back Plate to accept it.
I noticed that it was not up to the quoted tolerance,being about .002" out of true.
So back to square one and see where the problem lay.
Clocked the main mounting head,ok.
Refitted the back plate and checked,maybe a little off but not enough to write home about but i decided to give the plate a small finishing cut of .002'' at the lowest feed rate and refit the chuck.
Still out by .0015'' so started to tap the chuck with a mallet,worse,now .010'' out,what is going on?
Then i tumbled to it.
I got the chuck key fitted and using a small tube gave the key some stick,that did the job.
So now i am in the throws of making a chuck key long enough to tighten the chuck without skinning ones knuckles on the Head Stock.
GerryB
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G.Day Each,
I turned up a suitable key and made sure that the Tommy Bar is n line with the flat of the Square End,
I don't know why my Keys are fitted with Tommy Bars at all different alinements,but i prefer some sort of alinement that helps you position the the Key where you want to.
Problems !!!
I started to set up the Lathe this morning in order to turn up a rifle barrel, no problems.
Checked the oil levels through the windows fitted in the Gear Box.OK,Head Stock,OK,Apron ?.
The level in the Apron window was a little odd,no level as such,just an indication that it was full.
After about 4 hrs. turning i started to clean the Lathe and noticed that the sight window in the Apron was showing White Liquid,vary odd.
Removed the Filler Plug on the top and withdrew a sample out with a Pump.
All i got out was a load of gooey liquid.
So removed the Drain Plug in the base of the Apron and out came a load of the mixture.
It would seem that Suds was finding its way into the Apron.
So now i have a dismantling job on hand to find out where the Suds can leak into the Apron and then to cure the problem.
I realise that no reel harm has come to the inside components of the Apron but i am not happy.
Has anyone of you with same type of Lathe come up against this problem?
I did notice a number of times when cleaning down that oil was getting out in the vicinity of the main Traversing Handle Bearing.
I at first put this down to maybe over filling the Apron in the first place,also it proved that lubrication was getting to the bearing.
Will let you know what i find when i dismantle the Apron/Saddle unit.
GerryB
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It sounds like you are getting it sorted.
I don't know about you, but the cam lock key that came with mine would make you belt your knuckles on the head stock as it was to short. I made up a new one and just filed the square on the end as it was quicker than setting up in th mill that day.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Shed%20stuff/Picture1704Small.jpg)You can see by this photo how much longer it is
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Shed%20stuff/Picture1701Medium.jpg)
I also made my standard handles into speed handles, which makes changing the jaws around much quicker.
I just made up sleeves and press fitted collars on the bottom to hold it on. I also put 3 grooves in the 3 jaw one and 4 grooves in the 4 jaw to tell them apart easily.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Shed%20stuff/Picture1706Small.jpg)
Dave
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My CQ6230A came with one key long enough to use on the camlock, if I first clear the stuff off the top of the gear box! There is another which has a loose cross bar and that is easy to use on the camlock too and is the only one that can be used with the face plate.
Those speed handles look very nice! :thumbup:
John
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G.Day Each,
Yes i must agree the T handles look the ticket.
I have been thinking and i must try it out,whether the 3/8" or the 1/2" square drive on the Ratchet Spanner of a Socket Set could be made use of?
I mean they have different lengths of bars to extend the Socket out.
I envisage that the square would need reducing and that this would make the tool useless for its normal use.
Just a thought.
GerryB
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My CQ6230A came with one key long enough to use on the camlock, if I first clear the stuff off the top of the gear box! There is another which has a loose cross bar and that is easy to use on the camlock too and is the only one that can be used with the face plate.
Those speed handles look very nice! :thumbup:
John
Hi John,
Sounds like mine come with the same setup as yours, it's a bit hard to remember because I modded them a few years ago now. I do remember getting annoyed with the T handle coming out all the time.
I think I used the sliding bar in my extended T handle.
The speed handles are just made up from the standard chuck keys, but make the job of turning jaws around so much quicker. I drilled the top of the key and welded the T handle in so it wouldn't move or come out. The bolt that holds the revolving handle goes through the handle and is threaded into the base piece, then continues on and clamps the whole lot onto the end of the T handle. I also filed a flat in the end of the T handle for the bolt end to sit in.
Dave
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G.Day Each,
Yes i must agree the T handles look the ticket.
I have been thinking and i must try it out,whether the 3/8" or the 1/2" square drive on the Ratchet Spanner of a Socket Set could be made use of?
I mean they have different lengths of bars to extend the Socket out.
I envisage that the square would need reducing and that this would make the tool useless for its normal use.
Just a thought.
GerryB
Hi Gerry
It makes it quicker and easier having a dedicated camlock key. With your socket idea you could pick up a cheap socket reducer from one of the $2 stores or in the cheap bin at Bunnings etc. Even a cheap socket with a piece of square bar pushed/welded in it would do. That way you wouldn't be stuffing a good one. I use a Sidchrome sliding T bar on my mill vice with a 19mm socket on it all the time.
I have also seen guys using the small (butterfly) air wrenches for changing chuck jaws. They have them hanging close by, I have a few but the last thing I want to hear when machining is the compressor running and think the speed handles are just as quick.
That camlock key I made up is only mild steel heated and dipped in oil when I finished it so it wouldn't rust. The container wasn't deep enough so I had to turn it around reheat to dip other end. I have had it for a couple of years now and it shows no sign of wear at all. I only use a Primus propane torch to heat it and do this to all my tooling I make.
When I made it I just measured the diagonal across the standard square key and machined the end of the bar round to that measurement, with a taper and a step leading down to it that I thought looked good. I then just grabbed a file and filed the square while it was in the lathe which didn't take long. Once that was done I drilled the hole for the standard T bar handle.
Dave
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G.Day Each.
Re the Suds getting into the Apron.
I started dismantling the Saddle unit,removed the DRO unit,also the Toolpost unit.
I spotted a hole in the Swivel Table that seemed a likely spot to investigate for the Suds getting through to the Apron.
Removed the Saddle Unit and Bingo found the reason for the problem.
The Cross Feed Screw is in a well/slot in the Saddle.
Now with the End Plate attached there is no way any liquid can escape other than through the hole in the end of the slot that allows the Cross Feed Screw to come out to the Dial unit.
So it seems that Suds is getting past the Tool Post through the hole in the Cross Slide and into the Well of the Saddle where it can only get out and into the Apron.
Now i could be clever and strip the Saddle down to bare bones and machine a suitable bearing surface and fit an 'O' ring but that sounds too much like hard work which does not help with the Suds getting there in the first place.
So i have decided to drill the base inside the well with 1/4" holes,about 4 should do so that when Suds do get in the Well it will have somewhere to drain before reaching the height of the hole.
GerryB
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Well,
After cleaning away the crud that builds up i decided to drill 4 holes in the Well or Trench as you wish,see Photo.
I chose a 6mm drill and proceeded,no problems.
Cleaned away the swarf and now let the Suds supply a large quantity of Suds to the Well.
All systems go,the 4 holes allowed the Suds to drain away without entering the hole for the Cross Feed Screw.
I don't think that large quantities of Suds were getting through to the Well but were filling up slowly over time due to no where to go once it got there.
Any way cleaned and lubricated slide ways etc,refitted the Cross Slide,adjusted the backlash.
Refitted the DRO unit and tested,all OK.
Filled the Apron to the level in the Sight Glass with Hydraulic Oil?
Yes i wondered whats with this Hydraulic Oil.but its not the Oil you put in your Brake/Clutch System.
Apparently it is the Oil used in JCB's and the like.
I friend of mine who is the Manager of a local Engineering Co.told me that it is all they use in their Lathes etc,so he kindly gave me a gallon.
The Manual supplied with the Lathe is quite good in many respects but doe's not inform you of a recommended oil to use.
GerryB
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I tried to reply last night but the site was playing up and I lost my reply.
My apron/cross slide is different to yours. Mine has a small sheet metal plate on it in front of the cross slide hand wheel. If I take it off I can see down in the apron.
I have not run coolant on mine so I will look out for this when and if I do, but it looks like yours is sorted.
I also use hydraulic oil and super cheap have quality stuff (Shell I think) and it's around $99 for 20ltrs. I wait until they have the 20% off days and buy it then.
Dave
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Just a point Gerry, is that a cap screw in a countersunk hole in your picture Mill Drill 015? Maybe your lathe is different to mine but the lads who assembled mine put a common cap screw to hold the cross slide nut, it should have been a countersunk set screw and when I found one it made a nice flush fit with less room from crud to accumulate and nothing sticking above the surface of the slide.
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It looks like mine and from memory it is a standard cap screw but has a steel bush type thing that it sits in.
Dave
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G.Day Each,
John, i think that my Lathe is a little updated due to just being manufactured.
I presume and expect that the manufacturer makes modifications to the machines in production.
I went out to the Shed to take a look at my setup.
Yes it is a Cap Screw.
So i removed it.
The hole is not Countersunk but has a Setting Collar inserted.
Now after i cleaned out the crud i could see that the receiving screw hole in the Cross Feed Nut seemed to be in line with the hole.
The hole was a little off centre to the hole in the Cross Slide so i imagine that this allows any displacement of the centre of the Cross Feed Screw to be accommodated.
Any way refitted the the Cap Nut and every thing is OK,well fingers crossed.
Dave,I also have a removable plate covering the end of the well but mine is at the rear.
When the plate is fitted there is no way that you can get or see down the recess.
If the plate was not fitted then i think i would not have had the problem with Suds building up in the Well and draining out through the hole that lets the Cross Feed Screw through and ending up in the Apron.
Now i come to think about it i could not have fitted an 'O' ring as the Dia. of the hole is large to allow the Screw to be removed through it..
GerryB
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Hi Gerry,
The plate I am talking about on mine goes directly above the apron between the cross slide dovetails.
In your picture Mill Drill 013, the plate goes where you have the ground section at the top of the photo.
Dave
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I have thought of filling the gap around the feed screw with thick felt, or maybe some of an old woolen sock, which used to work with leaky rear axles on old cars!.
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G.Day Dave,
The plate that covers the end open end of the slot is at the rear of the Saddle unit.
I am wondering if any one would like me to copy my Manual as a download as it was supplied with the Lathe.
I believe that some purchasers of the CO6230A were not supplied with a suitable instruction Manual.
Mind you,my Manual leaves some thing out.
There is no mention of the Suds Pump or its set up,no mention of the Foot Brake Unit or its set up,like wise with the Lamp.
The Electrical Circuit Diagrams are ok (3 Phase and Single Phase) but little in the way of where or to what the extra units are connected to.
These were items that i had to sort out by trial and error (plenty of the error)but all went well in the end.
There are over 50 pages to the Manual.
GerryB
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G.Day Each,
This is another attempt to write further info.on the Lathe,it would seem that i only have to nudge the Mouse accidently like and i loose all that i have written.
I have hidden the Mouse.
I have been machining an old ,25 barrel that a friend gave me in order to fit the Webley Service Air Rifle MkII.
All was going well until i came to the machining of the Breach.
Now this should cause no problems but i was concerned about the Muzzle which is up the far end of the Head Stock unsupported so to speak.
So i decided to drill and tap 4 suitable holes to make a Lantern Chuck or a Fixed Steady like arrangement.
Upon removing the Cover i was amazed to find that the inner dia of the Head Stock Bearing was threaded.
That is for about 32mm by, a 1.5mm pitch and then a slight shoulder.
There is nothing mentioned in the Manual and i have never come across an arrangement that uses this type of security.
I know that tools such as a Collet Draw Tube and the like are used.
Does anyone have information on what is fitted to this thread?
It does not seem likely that the manufacturer would just machine a thread for nothing.
In the mean time i will have to devise something to fit the thread and support the Muzzle.
GerryB
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That question has been asked many times over the years, but no one seems to know the answer.
If you search for cat head you will get a lot of hits from gun builders, as this is what the usually call them. That is if your talking about a circular piece with 4 threads in it, to centre the barrel in the out board end of the spindle.
Dave
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Gerry.
Don't know if this will help.
http://www.projectsinmetal.com/a-rear-spider-nut-for-the-grizzly-g0602-lathe/
:beer:
DaveH
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That threat on the end of the spindle can be useful.
I made an indexing attachment which screwed in there locking a change gear to the spindle but what I would really like to do is use that thread to push on the draw bar to eject a tight taper rather than banging on the spindle.
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G.Day Guys
Thanks for the information.
I do not know if i have got this right but the threaded tube in the info. seems to be threaded on the outside where as mine has an internal thread with a shoulder. see photo.
If i make a suitable 'Cat' chuck it will be sticking out from the end of the tube,which may be ok.
GerryB
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That link made me look twice as well, but it is a smaller lathe and a different set up.
Mine has the same internal thread and I have seen a lot with cat heads threaded into them, mainly on the gun smith sites.
They usually stick out past the end of the spindle about an inch and have the 4 threads tapped in from the sides. Being an extension off the end will let you be able to keep the gear cover on the end, instead of having to remove it.
With the threads/bolts for them, I have seen where guys have drilled into the end of the threads/bolts and made up brass tips similar to a mushroom shape, to be pressed into them to save marking your job.
Dave
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G.Day Guy's.
Well as they say one thing leads to another.
I had just received from the USA a set of three milling cutters,called the Little Hogger Mill Set.
Just the job only in my enthusiasm i forgot to take note of the size of the Shank which is 3/4".so did not order a holder to suit.
Now my mill holders only accept shanks up to 5/8",
So select a suitable piece of MS and start turning a Three Morse Taper and drill and tap for the Draw Bar.
Now comes the crunch,how am i to secure the item when reversed, in order to bore out the end to accept the Mill Cutter.
What i needed was a Draw Bar assy fitted in the Head Stock.
I had a Draw Bar fitted to the Mill so removed it and weighed up the pros.etc in order to fit it to the Head Stock.
First find a suitable piece of round MS which i just had.
Set it up in the three jaw and begin to machine and cut a thread 1.5mm pitch.
I realise that the thread is quite fine for the dia,so i cut the thread to a loose fit so that if swarf should get in the thread when fitting it will not cause the thread to seize up so easily.
I also imagined that when left in place for a long period it would be prone to be a little hard to remove so i cut two slots to accept the spanner supplied with the Clarkson Autolock.
I set it up to bore the hole required for the new milling cutters and bingo,all was perfect.
So now i have the milling cutters i wanted and found a use for the thread in the end of the Head Stock Shaft.
I am now in the throws of designing a suitable 'Cats' Head.
GerryB
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Hi Gerry,
I've been trying to find details of cat head chucks but so far, without much success.
That is not quite true, because I have the Holzapffel books on Turning and Manual Manipulation which has a drawing of one in use.
For those who don't know who Holzapffel was- and want to read it all, I commend it for Christmas, and next one and so on.
So, Gerry, with the aid of modern technology-- fingers crossed!
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:hammer:
G.Day Guy's,
Sorry,but i forgot to inform you as to what were the two different ends in the last photo.
Well when i measured the length needed for the unit i had machined to take the Draw Bar i had a little over 1 1/2" to cut off.
Not the one to waste anything i enviseged that maybe in the future i will wish to hold some other unit in the Morse Taper and that the length of the Draw Bar is too long so i cut the 'off cut' to two sizes,like big washers and that is what you see either side of the finished threaded plug (for want of a better disscripsion)
GerryB
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I sent TWO copies of the Holzapffel page.
Can you confirm receipt please?
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G.Day Norm.
Yes i have received the two copies you sent me but the trouble is i cannot relate them to the making of a suitable 'Cat Chuck'
Have another look and maybe you can put me in the right direction.
GerryB
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Regarding cat heads generally, these are pretty crude affairs and could be made out of a bit of piping with 4 or more securing bolts- and probably held by an other chuck( perhaps a 4 jaw). In a bygone era- and in today's woodworking on the lathe, the odd shaped object could be secured with wooden wedges! It still goes on but daft modern engineering books seem to have lost sight of them.
In my own modest little workshop, I've got an independent 3 jaw chuck as well as a little 4 jaw and I have watchmakers chucks that have recessed rings to nip round thin discs. If you plough your way through a lot of ancient British stuff( 1950's), you will find things like slotted face plates to hold exactly what you want to hold-- awkward shapes-FIRMLY. Moving on a bit( sorry to bore some), watchmakers used glue mixtures of rosin and shellac to do this. You know odd castings hold very well in a bit of piping with the space filled with car bodge to hold everything in place. You don't run around and tell your critics how you did it-- because they might have a more elegant solution- to what is dead simple
Hope that helps a bit
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I continued my search and simply Googled 'Cat Head chucks' and this came up on HomeShop Machinist where a firm was using a simple bit of piping and screws to hold an awkward shape to rotate in the fixed steady!
As as sort of addendum, Robert H Smith's Advanced Machine Tool Work is available FREE on the net as well as a reprint by Lindsay Publications.
On my copy page 6-28 there is a a write up on the cat head and diagram on his excellent but dated book.
As we - were on about tool and cutter grinding- there is an excellent set of maths on page 8-13 about getting clearances in grinding.
For those who dont know how to set the height of the grinder to grind tool angles- this is IT
578 FREE pages - now that's a bargain.
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To prevent the outboard end of long stock which passes through the spindle flexing and flailing, , I just use a simple wooden V block fixed to the bench. Once something starts flailing, it rapidly gets worse, but a V block seems to be enough to prevent this, and wood leaves the surface relatively unscathed.
Andy
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Fergus,
Thank you for posting that, There's a lot of great information in that. Very much appreciated.
Pete
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Agreed about 'Smith' but I am wondering about Holzapffel and wondering whether these so classical books are also Freebies.I suspect that they are. OK, I'm hogging Gerry's posting but Gerry is is building a tool and cutter grinder so does he know what a Goniostat is? I ran a copy off about a recent copy that someone from the Society of Ornamental Turners site had made.
Hope Gerry approves?
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:offtopic:
G.Day Each,
'Goniostat'! not a recognised word.
I have a couple of Mates who 'Cut' Gem Stones for something to do and they use a gadget that angles the unit at various angles in order to face the stone which is being cut according to its crystal layout.
I think we are going off on a tangent away from the 'Chinese Lathe' issue and may loose some of the Guys interested in the original issue.
So i am asking politely to refrain from heading off in different directions and to keep to the original theme.
GerryB
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G.Day
Each,
Well i hope its a good day for you,its 37oC at the moment so its too hot
to go into the oven(shed)
Also i tried yesterday to send this post but nothing seemed to happen
when i hit the 'Post' button.
Now i realize that the server could be having problems,but why do i
loose every thing including the attached photos?
Any way here goes again.
I did scan the various leads given me as to the 'Cat head Chuck' issue
but had no luck,maybe i was not doing it right.
So i decided to make a suitable unit to do what i needed,not too
difficult,actually quite easy.
I fount a suitable piece of MS 2" X 4".
Chucked in the Three Jaw and reduced an inch at one end to 42mm,then
cut a thread 1.5mm pitch.
Removed and tasted in the Head Stock for fit,perfect.
Re chuck and bore out the centre to a suitable size.
When setup to bore i placed a stop on the Bed Rails to stop the cutter
1mm from the face of the Chuck.
I did not want the cutter coming into contact with the Three Jaw
Chuck,also it prevented Swarf building up in the Chuck and made a nice
wall to keep the Suds in play during the boreing.
Once i had finished boring out to a suitable size i reversed the item in
the Three Jaw and cut off the 1mm blank from end.
GerryB
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Sorry Gentlemen but i am having problems including Photo's with my Posts.
GerryB
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I have reduced the size of this photo so here goes.
It is the first set up of reducing the Dia to 43mm and then cutting the 1.5mm tgread.
GerryB
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It would seem that i will have to set up each Photo individually at the moment as it will not accept more than one at a time.
The second Photo shows the set up for keeping the Boring Tool from coming into contact with the Chuck.
I have secured a Saddle Stop on the Bed Ways.
GerryB
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This one shows the set up for Boring
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And cutting off the 1mm end.
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Now i decided that i would use an Adjustable 'C' Spanner that i have so its on to the Mill to cut some slots.
I know that i could have just drilled a couple of holes suitably placed and used a Tommy Bar but then what would i do with my nice Adjustable 'C' Spanner?No do not answer)
I also decided that i would use 4 6mm Alan Cap Bolts for the adjustable Claws (well it is a Cat Chuck)
I found 4 suitable bolts and decided to fit Copper Pads to the ends that are in contact with the work so as not to mark the item being held.
Of cause you do realise that it only supports an item and rotates with the same,not like a Fixed or Traveling Steady.
There is also plenty of room to fit other Claws.
I envisaged using 1/4"x40tpi which would help in setting up to Thous of an inch.but that may come later.
The last Photo shows the completed unit so it now waits for the Barrel set up for which i built it.
GerryB