MadModder
The Shop => Software Tools => Topic started by: sorveltaja on December 07, 2025, 03:09:18 PM
-
I've been using Pop Os for a few months, and quite like it as a step to see how things work in Linux world.
I've also looked for a lighter distro for my 2011 laptop to replace Win7. Yes, there are plenty of them, but still, they tend to include way too much stuff, that I'll never use.
Make a custom Linux iso then? Meh, I tried that using Cubic, but don't know how much can be removed until something breaks. Dependencies I guess.
How about even lighter distro, where it's possible to install only needed apps?
Lately I've been testing server versions of Ubuntu and Debian in VM. In other words, 'headless' ones that doesn't have elements like desktop (or actually anything that uses GUI) as a default.
Anyway, there are tech guys on Youtube, who show the steps how to make a minimal Linux installation with desktop using server distro.
What comes to desktop environments, I've tried Xfce, Lxqt, and Mate.
At this point, Mate seems to be the closest to what I'm looking for, for its lightness and customization options. It even allows using window borders in its themes without the need to mess with css files. An example of classic Window-ish GUI:
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Ubuntu Mate uses Snap (which is a service running at background) to install and handle apps like Firefox. Like with Windows, I don't like such unnecessary services hanging around, and Snapd is one of them. Obviously, disabling that breaks some things.
Debian Mate doesn't seem to use Snap out of the box, so I'll stick to it for now.
So, this is about finding out how usable, reliable and perhaps snappy such a minimal system can be, when compared to 'full' distros like Mint and Pop Os.
In the end, bit of a rant:
Pop Os that I use on my pc, is quite resource heavy. When having something like Virtualbox and two web browsers running, it occasionally freezes the host system, VM or both.
I have 8Gb of ram on my pc, and don't remember having that kind of issues with Win7. From what I've read, it's about different memory management/allocation. There probably isn't much that can be done about it, except adding more RAM.
Some points about the subject at https://wartimeconsigliere.substack.com/p/why-windows-is-superior-at-memory?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web (https://wartimeconsigliere.substack.com/p/why-windows-is-superior-at-memory?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web)
-
I used Linux Lite on one of my feebler laptops, which seemed to work quite well. It's based on Ubuntu, and uses Xfce as its default window manager (I assume you could use Mate, I never tried). My daily driver is Linux Mint - I use that on pretty much every machine I've got, and it works quite well - although I also get glitches with a heavy Windows 7 VM. I have 32GB of RAM, and give the VM 12GB, occasionally Cinnamon (the Mint window manager) has a bit of a fit when restoring the VM from minimised - sometimes it takes 2-3 goes before it actually restores smoothly. TBH, I should probably put Windows on a physical machine... but I'm really trying to avoid that.
-
Yeah, Windows has some pretty positive things in it, although MS appears to do anything and everything to bury them. But enough of that.
I've just installed previously mentioned Debian with Mate on my pc. After setting up theme and other basic stuff, I downloaded Unigine Heaven, an old 2009 benchmark.
It ran, but with artifacts and rather crappy performance (fps).
To get to the point, I figured out that I have to install Nvidia drivers. But it's not that simple thing to do, unless there are clear instructions.
For this distro/version (Debian 13), there is a tutorial at https://linuxconfig.org/debian-13-nvidia-driver-installation (https://linuxconfig.org/debian-13-nvidia-driver-installation)
I followed the instructions, and after some copy-pasting, the drivers installed properly.
Another round of benchmarking verified that with much better results. I just wonder, why does it have to be so complicated on Linux.
In fact, I'm writing this from that new installation. If there aren't any major glitches or hiccups, I think I'll continue to test this as an alternative to Pop Os.
-
Linux and NVIDIA have a strange relationship. I'm not sure why but there always seems to be issues with NVIDIA chip-sets and Linux installs . The popular distros like Ubuntu seem to handle it a bit better than the others
I'm currently using kubuntu with an AMD saffire GPU that at least works with most things . My previous NVIDIA card have some strange behavior with Wayland .
I have win11 on another drive and hate having to use it . Microsoft have really F'ed it up and I cant see it recovering - kids these days don't seem to be able to write solid working software and concentrate on wizz-bang animation rather than operability . And don't get me started about phones.......
-
Presently using EasyOS, Barry Kauler's latest, based on Devuan Excalibur. Very happy with it.
If you want to try it, Barry has a simple installer called EasyDD which will write an image file of EasyOS to a USB thumbdrive. That will be a fully operational live build, not requiring installation to HD. Runs fine that way.
Of course a quality thumbdrive will start up noticeably faster and better than a bargain basement one. Actually, during the initial write installation it will tell you just how fast your usb drive is, comparatively.
EasyOS has containers so you can run stuff in sandboxes if you want. And it encrypts your data files and any customizations or applications you add. It does come with a large number of apps already, but is only about 1 gig in size. It runs in RAM so is very fast. It has an easy upgrade button, and also takes snapshots of your system, if desired so you can return to an earlier state.
Frankly, the best Linux OS I've tried re. small size and efficiency for a DIY type. I like it anyway.
-
Yeah I'll probably test EasyOs at some point. But as the media is in .img format, running it in Virtualbox or Qemu isn't that straightforward.
Some gripes about Mate:
First hiccup - In both Debian and Mint versions, there's an old Gnome 2 bug:
When app shortcuts are placed to panel, their order changes after reboot, even if they are locked. Same can happen with system tray elements (volume indicator, network and clock/date). One possible solution is to place the app icons to the left end of the panel. After a few reboots, the icons are where I put them.
Another is that I've not been able to completely disable power management features. The screen still goes off after 10 minutes, if there's no activity.
Only setting screensaver timing to max (2 hours) seems to postpone that.
General things about Linux:
Distros that I've tested so far, if there's on one desktop environment (DE) (in this case Xfce) an app such as file manager (PcmanFm which requires something like catfish to be installed to search files), that one would like to replace with other like Caja, it's next to impossible to set that preferred file manager as a default. That's one of the reasons why I hopped to Mate.
And when considering installing other 'system' apps, they may well drag whole DE with them, so it's worth looking at what kind of dependencies they may have, if one attempts to make a light weight installation for an old hardware.
Some pros and cons of what I've discovered, when using minimal Debian Mate install:
+ light on resources
+ it's possible to choose a simple, or 'retro' style interface, instead of overly polished or 'modern' ones
+ as it's based on a server distro, out of the box there are much less apps that one might never use anyway
+ some Mate versions have task (or whatever) bar on both top and bottom sides - what a waste of space, but it's easy to just delete one of them. The way I've done it is to remove bottom one, and move top one which has systray items to bottom. More details perhaps later.
- Mate may not be as frequently maintained as more popular DE's
- without having fancy software center, installing certain apps like Wine requires extra, distro specific steps. Also, when trying to install apps from .deb packages, there will likely be errors - I haven't looked yet what are the prerequisites to avoid such errors
- certainly not very newbie friendly - one has to go 'under the hood', and get used to searching information about whatever tasks one wants to perform
Mint Mate, on the other hand, has more GUI tools already in it, making it somewhat easier option to get familiar with Mate.
-
Yeah I'll probably test EasyOs at some point. But as the media is in .img format, running it in Virtualbox or Qemu isn't that straightforward.
Sorveltaja do you have to run it in a VM? You can run it off of the thumbdrive if your OS will boot to one. EasyOS is designed to easily run from USB drive. Write the image file to thumbdrive via DD or whatever imaging software you have. Then boot to the thumbdrive.
Latest version is EasyOS Excalibur 7.0.34.
-
In the past I've used Puppy live, mainly for editing/deleting files in Win10 installation, but never quite got used to it. As EasyOs is based on Puppy, it would need some modifications to work more like 'beginner friendly' distros.
It's not about Puppy or EasyOs themselves, but the way I'm used to certain patterns - in other words, what I'm familiar with.
As I come from Windows world, possible transition at this point seems to be easier, when using 'windowsy' DE's. I guess old habits die hard.
-
Some more thoughts:
A new user, when testing otherwise well running distros like Pop Os, Ubuntu or Linux Mint, might find their software centers to be rather sluggish. Because of that, they are quite frustrating to use. They may give an impression that Linux as a whole is just that slow with about anything.
An example: when I started with Linux back in spring of this year, I used Pop Os's Pop Shop to see what apps there are available to possibly replace ones I've used in Windows. It was good thing to use at the very beginning to install/remove apps, but for some time now, I've avoided using it.
What are the alternatives for such software centers?
One is Synaptic, which has rather basic interface, but still a GUI. It doesn't necessarily come installed by default on mentioned distros. It can be installed using said software center, or using command 'sudo apt install synaptic' in terminal.
One thing, when using command line to install an app, it's fast, but the user must know the exact name of the package he wants to install.
That's where software center can be used to find app names (by category or so), and further, if needed, to look on the net for more info about that app.
Small and capital letters matter; if one tries to install Synaptic instead of synaptic in terminal, there's an error 'Unable to locate package Synaptic'.
Change of gears: when trying Linux on my laptop, screen is always too bright. To tame it a bit, I've used command 'xgamma -gamma 0.5' to adjust contrast. That can be added as a startup application on control center or similar.
Unfortunately, even if the distro has brightness control in display options, it may not work at all. To enable brightess control (Fn + right and left arrow on Acer) an entry in a grub file (assuming grub is used) needs to be edited. But files like that can't be modified without admin or root privileges.
One way to do that is to use nano, a terminal text editor with command 'sudo nano /etc/default/grub', and add 'acpi_osi=' entry, so that it looks similar to this:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet acpi_osi="
After doing that, grub needs to be updated with command 'sudo update-grub' and reboot to apply changes.
Nano's basic commands are: ctrl+o (and enter) to save the file, and ctrl+x (and enter) to exit to get back to terminal.
So no doubt, there are still things that may require the use of terminal. That's one of the things that has kept me from using Linux before, as some of the tasks can't be done using GUI, like on Windows. More savvy users might claim that the users can modify Linux to look and work just as they prefer. It's true, but only if that user knows what to do.
Bit of a rant - there are a lot of sites on the net offering solutions to this or that issue, that newbies face. Some of them are plain hostile, having flame wars about everything. Just don't engage; let them be the way they are, and move on. That's an unfortunate part, as many know, of searching information in these days.
But enough of that. Learning basic terminal commands can help to get a better picture of what's involved in editing settings in Linux. There's no need to go crazy about it. Not everyone wants or needs to be a hacker. At least I don't.
Foolproof way of doing the testing is to use VM like Virtualbox - it's free and available for Windows, Mac and Linux. If one breaks the system inside VM (I've done that many times), it stays there, without affecting the host system.
In the end, I have Pop and Win7 installed on my pc, but without dual boot option. That's because I disconnected Win7 disk before installing Pop on a separate disk. Of course, that might not be handy or convenient, but when I want to boot to Win7, I just restart the pc and press F11 key and select the disk containing Win7. No dualboot issues whatsoever.
-
To enable brightess control (Fn + right and left arrow on Acer) an entry in a grub file (assuming grub is used) needs to be edited. But files like that can't be modified without admin or root privileges.
Interestingly, I've never had that issue; and whilst I've pretty much stuck with Linux Mint ever since Ubuntu went all weird looking, I've run it on maybe 4 different laptops now (two Thinkpads, one of unknown manufacture that's actually my official work-supplied device, and one I can't recall now) and the brightness (and volume) buttons all worked out of the box. Obviously I can't speak for other distros. One of the two Thinkpads ended up with Linux Lite on it (because it was a feeble Celeron monstrosity), honestly can't recall if the brightness buttons ever worked with that - it was my "IMDB" box that I used when watching TV & wanted to look up an actor or somesuch.
WRT software - yeah, that is something which seems less polished than Windows. For the most part, installing stuff on windows (prior to v10 anyway) was pretty well painless. OK, getting it to actually function AFTER installation was sometimes "entertaining"; with Linux it seems the opposite is true: Sometimes it's a bear to get something installed; but once installed it usually functions just fine. Being a software dev who started in the era when windows was a DOS program, I'm comfortable just using apt on the command line. And when it comes to finding apps, I usually end up searching the Web for something to do what I want, and once I find it that's usually got the apt instructions (or alternatives. AppImage is pretty good, although I have found a couple of those which don't work properly).
Foolproof way of doing the testing is to use VM like Virtualbox - it's free and available for Windows, Mac and Linux. If one breaks the system inside VM (I've done that many times), it stays there, without affecting the host system.
Fun anecdote: about 10 years ago now, that's how I ran Windows in my day job: Linux PC running VMWare (VirtualBox didn't support USB back then) with the guest OS running Windows. I also used to have a couple of Linux VMs also running at the same time, because the client software we used was supplied as a Linux-based CD image. So... I'd basically "burn" one of the VMs with the CD Image & boot it up, which meant I didn't need to use any dedicated hardware. Except... one day, I somehow managed to burn the install to my main PC! Weirdly, Windows kept running OK for a while, but then things started to get a bit iffy, with random crashes and other glitching. So I rebooted everything and BANG! Byebye PC. Had to re-install everything from scratch. NOT ideal. Had I done the same thing to a Windows PC, of course, it would have spat the dummy instantly, instead of lulling me into a false sense of security by continuing to run for a while!
-
I hate synaptics and apt for a number of functional reasons, sudo as well. I'm telling you guys, try EasyOS. It has a package manager that will handle .debs, appimages, flatpaks, .sfs files, and many puppy .pets.
If you ever ran win98, this isn't much different in simple desktop interface. Menu in lower left. Big number of already installed programs. Encryption right out of the box. This thing will runs circles in speed around any of the big Linuxes. You can run it off of a thumbdrive permanently, not just as a test OS. And that can be run in a number of different computers. It's faster yes if installed on HD, but definitely not required. And it will run on older equipment.
It also features containers if you want to do development.
-
I hate synaptics and apt for a number of functional reasons, sudo as well.
How does that help new Linux users?
Again, as many of us know, Linux discussions can and probably will get pretty heated. I certainly hope that it doesn't have to happen here, on this forum.
The aim of this thread is to provide info written by me, a noob Linux user, to other noob Linux users reading this thread (if any).
I could go on and on about these off-topic subjects - but no, it has to end right here.
-
I have run Linux systems on and off for 30yrs plus. However the Win 11 debacle has cemented my uptake of Linux for both the wife and myself as our go to desktop machines. She is coming from Mac's so vaguely Linux like and more familiar to her than Microsoft OS's.
I have also moved our desktop machines to using Raspberry Pi's Pi 4, 5, 400, 500 and 500+ for the wife as she wanted a mechanical keyboard. These are excellent solutions as there is a healthy community supporting them with lots on online help and video tutorials online. In my opinion this is one of the best ways to cheaply migrate to Linux, can't fault Pi OS.
I have also just started to play with RISC-V on Pi Zero 2W. A very minimalist setup with many programming options and reasonable support. RISC-V the code is very compact and simple for doing hardware related interfacing. Using BBC Basic is generally my go to, as a programmer I am not.
Just my experience from the last few years hunting cheap low power solutions that don't involve 2nd hand PC's.
-
I hate synaptics and apt for a number of functional reasons, sudo as well.
How does that help new Linux users?
Again, as many of us know, Linux discussions can and probably will get pretty heated. I certainly hope that it doesn't have to happen here, on this forum.
The aim of this thread is to provide info written by me, a noob Linux user, to other noob Linux users reading this thread (if any).
I could go on and on about these off-topic subjects - but no, it has to end right here.
No offense meant by that. Just my personal take on those particular ways of loading programs. I don't see that it hurts anyone, and others may like them. To me, and I've show several newbies how to use Linux, those particular aspects are counterproductive. Newbies generally do not want to drop to console to add a program. Apt requires console work with a number of unfamiliar and ambiguous commands, such as update/upgrade remove/purge, etc.
Synaptic, is supposed to make this into an automated, more graphically oriented process, which would be great if it worked the way it is supposed to. But it has many problems. For instance try installing Wine with it. It will pull in many dependencies to do that. Then uninstall it immediately afterwards. It will not uninstall those most of those dependencies. This kind of thing eventually bloats a user's system. There are many other problems with Synaptic installations, which require a new user to go to apt to and console to make the program they want work.
Su and sudo, is for most people I've introduced to Linux, another point of confusion. At first they cannot understand why they do not have permission to do the things they want to do. While Linux, like Unix, was designed as a multi-user system, where a root administrator, and lesser permissioned users was a necessary practicality, most home computers are single user systems. Since now with sudo, anyone can override their permissions restrictions anyway, I personally prefer not to have to type that in.
EasyOS is just a personal preference for me, and I'm fine if others want to use any other Linux system, or even Windows or Mac OS's. To each their own. But there's nothing wrong, I think, in pointing out what one's personal likes and dislikes are, and the reasons for them, and I think those do not prevent newbies from trying Linux of any species.
I hope my comments are taken in the spirit meant -- not as a discouragement to anyone.
-
No offense meant by that. Just my personal take on those particular ways of loading programs. I don't see that it hurts anyone, and others may like them. To me, and I've show several newbies how to use Linux, those particular aspects are counterproductive. Newbies generally do not want to drop to console to add a program. Apt requires console work with a number of unfamiliar and ambiguous commands, such as update/upgrade remove/purge, etc.
Synaptic, is supposed to make this into an automated, more graphically oriented process, which would be great if it worked the way it is supposed to. But it has many problems. For instance try installing Wine with it. It will pull in many dependencies to do that. Then uninstall it immediately afterwards. It will not uninstall those most of those dependencies. This kind of thing eventually bloats a user's system. There are many other problems with Synaptic installations, which require a new user to go to apt to and console to make the program they want work.
Su and sudo, is for most people I've introduced to Linux, another point of confusion. At first they cannot understand why they do not have permission to do the things they want to do. While Linux, like Unix, was designed as a multi-user system, where a root administrator, and lesser permissioned users was a necessary practicality, most home computers are single user systems. Since now with sudo, anyone can override their permissions restrictions anyway, I personally prefer not to have to type that in.
EasyOS is just a personal preference for me, and I'm fine if others want to use any other Linux system, or even Windows or Mac OS's. To each their own. But there's nothing wrong, I think, in pointing out what one's personal likes and dislikes are, and the reasons for them, and I think those do not prevent newbies from trying Linux of any species.
I hope my comments are taken in the spirit meant -- not as a discouragement to anyone.
Thanks for expanding your reply. I'll admit that I have some learning to do about the way I worded my reply.
I tend to have rather strict way of writing about projects.
It consist offering context as best as I can, when I have an opinion (good, bad, ugly or whatever). You have provided a good example of that kind, and it can, and most probably will make the subject(s) more relatable and easier to approach.
But yeah, I've noticed the same thing with Wine. I've used this site to find the codename of the distro I'm using, and version-specific installation instructions: https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Debian-Ubuntu
It requires separate app to handle Wine settings using GUI. I've used WineGUI, available at: https://gitlab.melroy.org/melroy/winegui/-/releases
So it certainly isn't as straightforward as Windows user like me might assume.
Another virtual machine, Qemu/virt-manager, has installation instructions at: https://christitus.com/vm-setup-in-linux/
What comes to VMWare player, it's one bugger to install. The version specific instructions I've managed to find from random website, they work, but I doubt that I'd install it again. And then there's the fact, that Broadcom once declared it to be free to use (it may have included VMWare Workstation as well), and then deleted the download links from their website.
In the end, it's true that using terminal isn't everyone's cup of tea. That was one of the main reasons that kept me away from Linux for a long time.
I don't remember which of the Linux Youtubers said: Linux doesn't protect you from yourself. In other words, using terminal can be scary, as it can break the system.
That's why I try to describe the steps when I use terminal, in as simple terms as I can, and if possible, add links to the content I'm referring. And no doubt, there's always room to improve that.
-
How to setup Mate desktop to more traditional style, and it doesn't have to be Debian, there are several other distros offering Mate as an option: https://distrowatch.com/search.php?desktop=MATE
So, after installation, it looks like this:
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Panel at the bottom has only two functions in it, 'show desktop' on the left and workspace switcher on the right side.
I rarely if ever use those. That panel can be removed by right-clicking (rmb - right mouse button) and selecting 'Delete this panel' (these items can be added afterwards if needed to the bottom panel):
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
After that, rmb on upper panel → orientation → Bottom
(This is one thing that I prefer to do for convenience - otherwise, if the panel is on top, I keep hitting the clock, calendar and whatever icons are on the system tray, instead of minimizing or closing a maximized window).
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
It has three menus on the left side, but I prefer to have only one. To delete those three menus, hover the mouse over them and rmb --> Remove from panel.
To add a single menu, rmb over the panel → Add to panel --> Compact menu.
That menu icon can be moved by rmb → move. When it's in desired position, rmb → Lock to panel.
Now there's much more compact start menu:
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
By default, that panel doesn't show list of open windows, such as file manager.
To change that, rmb over it → Add to panel → Window list. It's barely visible on some themes, but it has three dots on the panel.
As mentioned before, when placing app icons to panel, their order may change after reboot. To avoid that, I've placed the 'window list' to about quarter of the panel length from left side, and placed app icons to the left side of it. Not 100% proof, but seems to work.
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
While experimenting with these panels, if needed, one can reset them to default by rmb → Reset all panels.
-
Hi sorveltaja, just to maybe help/explain why wine in many current Linux's doesn't work with many older programs (like in my case, old free Google SketchUp 8 3D-CAD, which is essential for me), we need to also install 32bit compatibility architecture for wine to handle these older 32 bit programs.
I also need that 32 bit compatibility to run my older Dell laser printer driver in CUPS. If you find mysterious problems like the above two in using windows programs or drivers, this may be a solution. Many linuxs now support only 64 bit applications and drivers out of the box. But for most there is an addon to allow you to also run 32 bit legacy software.
In Puppy linuxes from Fossapup F96-CE on back, they do not use apt or synaptic to load programs, but include a special Puppy Linux package manager that handles that stuff without using the console.
In later Puppy Linuxes, Bookwormpup64, and on, they do include apt and Synaptic, but also a degraded Puppy package manager. They have (to me) the same problems of needing to use the console in many cases to make an installation. HOWEVER, now there is a move to make a large number of applications available as appimages. These do not require a package installer at all. You simply download the application to your hard drive, make a shortcut to it, and then it runs itself. In other words, it acts a lot like a Windows program, without needing any installer.
None of the above Puppy types require sudo or su to work in the terminal. They are considered single-user systems, not multi-user, so there is no need to isolate multiple users from the administrator. The user and the administrator are all the one -- the computer owner. This is how Windows 98 used to work, as well, and all early computers.
But I also rarely needed to use the terminal in Puppy Linux. Sometimes I'd use it to check a printing cue via the command "lpstat" or clear it. Or occasionally I'd run a program from terminal instead of clicking on it graphically -- that was useful if it was a new program that crashed silently. In terminal you would get the actual error messages that happened in the crash, and you could troubleshoot the cause.
But that was pretty much all the need I had for using the console. I contrast that greatly with the period, about a dozen years ago, when I used Ubuntu. There was a constant need for troubleshooting, and installing, and correcting issues with the terminal.
Okay, enough about Puppy Linux as an historic background -- I stopped using it after 10 + years about two months ago, in favor of EasyOS. Really, to me, EasyOs is a highly developed Puppy, by the original developer of Puppy, although he doesn't say that.
In relation to what I wrote above, one very big feature is its Package Manager, which I think is the best I've ever seen, and most comprehensive of any I've tried. It can load a great variety of different application types into EasyOS : .debs appimages, flatpaks, .pets, .sfs and it does a lot of behind the scenes work automatically -- for instance refreshing the file list from the repositories for .debs. It also offers to run any application as a restricted user, or as root, your choice at installation time.
Another advantage of EasyOS is that it can take a snapshot of your system and store it at any time. If you ever have problems, you can always revert to a former snapshot.
The entire system upgrades seamlessly with the push of a button, but can be also rolled back to a former snapshot or system version. The speed of upgrade is amazing, because it only downloads a differential file from your last version.
All of your user data is encrypted automatically, also. And your browser can be run as its own user, so it does not have admin access. It is isolated.
Well that's enough, but I think it goes further to give a context for the fact that apt, synaptic, and sudo, are for me rarely needed, and terminal is used very occasionally only for troubleshooting, unlike the old days for me, using Debian and Ubuntu.
Again, this is not meant to in any way be negative about other Linuxes, and there are a huge variety of them. it's just an expression of my own personal preferences about how I like to work on my own computer. Obviously there's a learning curve for any Linux, and I've experienced that these last few months in transitioning from Puppy Linux to EasyOS. But I definitely think it was worthwhile. It's a very fast system with a minimal footprint, and huge capabilities in terms of available programs.
-
All too blooming complicated for me these days - bring back CP/M is what I say.
Happy New Year everybody.
-
It really is a jungle of all kinds of possible and impossible options, no matter if it's Linux or Windows.
But yeah, enabling 32-bit repository is one of the first steps in the Wine installation instructions mentioned before: sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386
General stories and gripes ahead:
Must have Win apps that I use with Wine are ancient Paint Shop Pro 8, and Goldwave.
I'd use Winamp too, but it's rather quirky to use with Wine. Sudden crashes and whatnot. I've always used it in its basic form (since Win 2000), without any fancy visualizations.
Winamp is probably the only music player that has a working plugin to re-connect to the network stream, when it cuts out. It's called 'silence detector'.
On to the alternatives. Although VLC has 'Auto re-connect' option in its preferences, it doesn't work the way one might expect, if at all. After trying some bash scripts found on the net, (and even ones produced by the infamous ChatGPT) to fix the problem, none of them worked. Got to love the dead air.
Qmmp, Audacious, and bunch of other players don't seem to have that function either.
Anyway, then I thought, that how about looking, what's happening when the stream cuts off. Wireshark is a free tool that I used back when testing Win10 to see where it sends telemetry data. If memory serves, there were tutorials of how to do that.
When using it in this case, I got some indications, when the net radio stream cuts or drops, but can't figure out what to do with that data.
So, I have a habit of jumping to the deep end of the pool, even though I can barely swim [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ] .
In that vein, another example: trying to make GPU (display card) passthrough, so that the VM has a real hardware resources (3D acceleration for apps like Rhinoceros that I've used quite a lot on Windows), instead of virtual ones. It may be possible using single GPU, but it's really not that convenient to use - shut down the primary host display service/device, so that VM can use it.
I insisted on testing that procedure anyway, and since such things can't, for obvious reasons, be tested inside VM, I ended up bricking the Linux installation on my pc.
More viable option would be to have two GPU's, perhaps just an integrated one for the host, and dedicated one for VM. However, my motherboard or CPU don't have integrated GPU's, so that's the end of the story about that, for now.
-
For Windows users looking for an alternative OS, in this case perhaps Linux, there are some websites that offer a 'Linux distro selector'. But that seems to be kind of a new thing - I don't remember Youtubers mentioning it as a supplement in choosing what distro(s) to test at the very beginning.
What I mean, would be similar to PC component selectors that some of the online shops used to have, at least in my country - where the user selects first, say a motherboard, and gets lists of compatible peripherals to choose from to build a working system.
An example: https://distrochooser.de/
Results on that site are quite clear, but terms like 'closed source programs', 'non-free licences', and 'free licenses', can be really confusing. One might expect that such are apps like Photoshop, which the user have to purchase separately.
Again, an example: Nvidia drivers and certain media codecs (used to handle different media formats, like videos) are not open source, but still they are free to use.
To me, as a home desktop user, that's an overly technical information. I understand that such terms are required to tell the user, what kind of licenses are involved. I'll bet it would help to tell, that even if this or that software is not open source, user doesn't have to pay to use them - in other words, to simplify the way the terms and conditions are expressed.
If one uses Linux for work - making money - that's when it may well be required to be aware of such things. Such users should already have understanding of how licenses work anyway.
But for new users, I assume, it's about getting the ball rolling to see what this new system is about, without needing to worry about pro stuff like licenses.
-
Typically (again) Puppy Linux and EasyOS do not distinguish those terms. Both are aimed at single user Linux beginners in design and terminology.
Though with any Linux there is a learning curve if coming from Windows, particularly from latest versions. Puppy was originally designed to mimic Windows 98 methodologies.
The various terms you mention are a result of Debian's choices for distinguishing repository and software types dating back decades. The concept was that open source and free meant that the software could be fully accessible and freely modified or reused in other different software. Which is the modular component build approach that made Linux and applications that run in Linux possible as a work of countless independent volunteer developers, each contributing advancements and variety based on the work of others.
True it is a developer-centric set of terms, but frankly, the term "free" as used in the Windows world of commercial software is often an abused term in itself. There is little free in a piece of software that is hampered in capability compared to the advert, disabled after a period of time, makes permanent changes to your computer that do not get uninstalled, tracks you, and your usage, and provides personal profiling information to commercial databases for profit.
Free as in open source means no hidden baloney, a preferable definition apparently to the original Debian developers.
-
This is not about Linux per se, but odd licensing. A good (or bad) example is when Winamp released its source code some time ago. But the license only allowed it to be forked/modified for private use.
And not only that - it was said that when the source code was released on Github, it was a mess - it even included other stuff like copyrighted Shoutcast and Dolby code.
After few weeks, they deleted whole thing from Github. From what I understand, it had hundreds of forks already in that point (obviously some, if not most just making fun of the license).
Lunduke's musings on the subject (~20min):
I guess there are at least few of us, who'd like to see Winamp ported to Linux, but it may not be that simple, as they say, it contains so much old, Windows-tied code.
To get back to Linux, when using Winamp (5.8) with Wine, there appears to be differences of how it works/behaves on desktop environments (DE), like Gnome and Mate.
With Mate, which I've tested on VM and on my laptop, surprisingly it seems to work a lot better.
Or at least I don't have to chase it around the desktop with mouse to find where it's hiding.
It may have something to do with X11, that Mate, Xfce and Cinnamon primarily use (being old school, or just plain simpler than modern DE's). Current testing setup:
DE: Mate 1.26.2
WM: Marco (X11)
WM Theme: WinMe
Theme: TraditionalOk [GTK2/3/4]
Icons: mate [GTK2/3/4]
Terminal: mate-terminal 1.26.1
As a comparison, here's what Pop Os uses, which makes Winamp behave in a very quirky way:
DE: GNOME 42.9
WM: Mutter
WM Theme: Pop
Theme: Pop [GTK2/3]
Icons: Pop [GTK2/3]
Terminal: gnome-terminal
So if one wants to use 32-bit Windows apps on Wine, X11-based DE's might be an option to consider.
Things to avoid, when using Wine:
Fractional scaling - I've used 125% on my pc, and it makes Win apps' gui buttons really small, almost unusable, no matter what dpi settings I've tried on Wine settings.
If the Win app gui uses animations, it may be worth disabling them, if such option is available.
-
Another is that I've not been able to completely disable power management features. The screen still goes off after 10 minutes, if there's no activity.
One workaround that seems to work to disable screen blanking, is to edit xsessionrc file at /etc/X11/Xsession.d folder (in my system that file is called '40x11-common_xsessionrc').
It probably already exists, but if not, to create it or edit existing one, navigate to that folder, and right-click 'Open as Administrator'. This folder opens in a new window, and now it's possible to edit and save that file using Pluma, Gedit or other text editor.
As a default, the file looks like this:
# This file is sourced by Xsession(5), not executed.
#Source user defined xsessionrc (locales and other environment variables)
if [ -r "$USERXSESSIONRC" ]; then
. "$USERXSESSIONRC"
fi
After editing:
# This file is sourced by Xsession(5), not executed.
#Source user defined xsessionrc (locales and other environment variables)
if [ -r "$USERXSESSIONRC" ]; then
. "$USERXSESSIONRC"
fi
xset s off
xset s noblank
xset -dpms
Then save the file and reboot.
-
I've been experimenting with Debian server based Mate on my pc, just to find out, how it runs on hardware.
Observations so far:
Being server based, there will likely be missing, graphics-related libraries - lack of "desktop plumbing" as the saying goes.
In practice, even if one manages to install Nvidia driver, it works with apps like Blender just fine (it's quite easy to see if there's a real display acceleration, by making a scene with hundreds or thousands of objects).
As always, I insist on using benchmarking apps on a new system to see how the hardware performs. That's where the missing libraries are - well, missing.
An example: that happened with Passmark - it launched only in a text mode in terminal, instead of gui, to do some of the tests. It uses some older libraries, that aren't in Debian repository anymore. That can happen with other apps as well. Also, from what I've read, enabling and using old repositories might break the system.
One should know exactly how to handle such issues. At this point I think it's too much of a hassle. So, next one I'll be testing is a 'real' desktop' distro, Mint Mate.
-
An example: that happened with Passmark - it launched only in a text mode in terminal, instead of gui, to do some of the tests.
I'll have to correct myself here. I've used passmark on Windows in the past, and assumed it to be the same on Linux. Passmark for Linux is actually text based, terminal app.
It's like a different app on Linux. Maybe it's because Windows version of Passmark uses DirectX or whatever functions in its 2D and 3D tests.
I can imagine if Linux version of Passmark was gui based, with 2D and 3D tests, it would use totally different graphics system - so perhaps the test results would not be comparable between Windows and Linux on their database.
So yeah, terms like "cross-platform" and "multi-platform" can be confusing at times.
-
I've installed Mint Mate on my pc, so for a change, hopefully less terminal usage. It has its own software- and driver manager, making installing of software like Nvidia driver and Wine rather simple and straightforward.
Downsides of using software manager in Mint Mate:
- it has a limited selection of 'curated' list of apps
- when selecting "show installed applications", it shows only the ones the user has installed.
- - -
When rebooting/shutting down, there is 10 seconds or longer delay - like some app or process was hanging on the background. It's not just my system; some other Mint users have this issue as well. One solution works in some cases, another works, again in some other cases and so on.
Quick and dirty (although not necessarily convenient) way to circumvent that is to add 'custom application launcher' button to panel, having command 'reboot'. It doesn't hesitate, it reboots immediately. Same procedure can be used to add also a shutdown button, if needed.
-
I've just fired up win11 for the first time in months . It feels so slow compared to the Kubuntu I normally use on the same machine. I just wanted to print a booklet usng acrobat ,but it had just started an update . after many many minutes , I was able to open acrobat only to be faced with pop-ups for AI slop and automated crap. It's unuseable!
I rebooted to linux.
-
I've just fired up win11 for the first time in months . It feels so slow compared to the Kubuntu I normally use on the same machine. I just wanted to print a booklet usng acrobat ,but it had just started an update . after many many minutes , I was able to open acrobat only to be faced with pop-ups for AI slop and automated crap. It's unuseable!
I rebooted to linux.
Yes, Win11 is about everything that Windows should not be. Youtubers who show how to strip out the AI crap and other bloat, to make it more usable, get strikes to their channels.
These are strange times; large companies like Microsoft - they seem to be doing their best to force-feed features that are restrictive and whatnot, perhaps to show that they still have final say, of what the consumers 'want'.
Such a powerful entity - one doesn't have to be a fortune-teller to see that it continues using same tactics over and over. By blindly doing that, it has managed to create resistance against itself.
That's probably the most positive thing it has successfully achieved.
For Windows users looking for alternatives, be it downgrading to Win10 to support their not so latest hardware, which Win11 makes obsolete anyway - or looking out to test Linux - it's such a jungle out there.
What comes to Linux, there isn't such thing as "best Linux distro for new users", as many Linux users (on Youtube) seem to presume. If this or that distro works for them, that's fine, but why assume that new users see it like they do.
Besides that, there are Linux users (some pretty advanced), who have made tutorials in more understandable, plain language. I wish I could put out some examples with links, but it's so vast subject to cover every aspect.
-
And when considering installing other 'system' apps, they may well drag whole DE with them, so it's worth looking at what kind of dependencies they may have
So that seems to be happening especially with Gnome-based apps. If one prefers to use other desktop environment (DE) like KDE, Cinnamon or XFCE, and wants to install a simple text editor, and reboots the system - boom - then Gnome may well be the new default DE, without informing about it.
Again, better versed Lunduke's take on getting "Gnomed" (~10 min): _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suxMvUuFDMw
Not exactly same or only Gnome-related, but similar thing happens, for example, when installing a file manager. It pulls Bluetooth support/components with it as well.
I understand that it might be needed for devices like BT printers, but for those of us that doesn't have/use Bluetooth, it's totally unnecessary bloat.
If the user then wants to remove those Bluetooth components, that file manager gets removed with it also.
From Windows user's perspective, what I don't quite understand about Linux world is forced dependencies (if that's the correct term).
In the end, a thing that I hadn't noticed until recently - it's worth checking, if the firewall is installed and enabled. I guess on most popular desktop distros it is, but at least on Debian it doesn't seem to be installed out of the box. One option is to use ufw (Uncomplicated Firewall). In that case, to see if it's installed, enter command using terminal:
sudo ufw status
If the result is:
sudo: ufw: command not found
then to install and enable it in one go:
sudo apt install ufw
sudo ufw enable
Resulting message verifies it's up and running:
Firewall is active and enabled on system startup
-
"a text editor" "a file manager" "Linux world is forced dependencies"
Lot of generalizations there. There are plenty of text editors that don't force Gnome to become the default DE, etc. etc. and there is no one "Linux world.
Most everything in any flavor of a linux OS, and most every program usable by the hundreds of different linux systems is compiled, with the compiling persons' personal preferences for options, and dependencies.
So somebody thought that the file manager you tried out as a binary (and did not compile yourself) should be built with a capability of using bluetooth for file transfers. Why is that a problem with the "Linux World?"
Naturally nothing out there is going to exactly suit what you want personally down to the last detail. If you don't like what options were included by somebody else as a program, just compile it without them.
The person or persons whose binary you tried were volunteers doing the work and offering it to the public without charge. Hey, likewise you can invest time and effort to change a program whose features you don't like into whatever you want. That's one basic reason for open source code.
I would also like to suggest that the big Linuxes you are generally referring to do try to add as many features and options as possible into complex "user friendly" DEs, and it's not surprising that they are heavily weighted, or that when a program is added, it pulls in massive loads of components for the DE that program was designed for, if you are trying to load it into a different DE.
The flip side of that coin is that a stripped down minimal non-big-time linux system will require some building up to whatever it is you desire in a fledged out OS, and that takes technical understanding which is not as "linux beginner" oriented.
This is just reality -- either people make lots of choices for you and give you a big one-size fits-all system, or you make choices for yourself, which at a minimum requires knowledge of how to do that, and will inevitably require learning and effort.
-
Good points. But no, I'm not saying that "Linux world" has problems. I'm rather attempting to understand and tell about things that I have experienced with Linux, and how differently it works when compared to Windows, the way I see it at this point.
I'm not blaming this or that Linux component of having whatever dependencies. Again, it's more about finding out how that stuff works, and writing down my take on it, for possible readers, who might want to start experimenting with their Linux system. As should be obvious by now, I'm not pretending to be all-knowing, or too well versed on these subjects; if any reader is more experienced, and knows a better way to verbalize these things, it's more than welcome to explain/clarify things in this thread.
But strong emotional response(s) to seemingly stupid ways, that potential new Linux users tell about issues they don't fully understand - why is that so common phenomenon all around the net? If this thread gets any visibility on the net, what a better way to express things than to get to bare-bones - of how I, as a newish Linux user doing all kinds of mistakes, and attempting to look for solutions and write about them?
Well, whatever the case is, I'm tired of repeating myself here, especially what I wrote before:
Again, as many of us know, Linux discussions can and probably will get pretty heated. I certainly hope that it doesn't have to happen here, on this forum.
-
Well, Sorveltaja, a good way to avoid that kind of thing, though I don't agree that it is occurring so far, is not to frame one's own comments as "rants" per the thread title, since it sets up that expectation.
Maybe also express difficulties in the thread as requests for explanations from others (if you want them) rather than enlarging to characteristics of a Linux world.
"From Windows user's perspective, what I don't quite understand about Linux world is forced dependencies ... "
-
I agree that word 'rant' may not be a proper term to use in this context - at least now I know better.
-
Great, and I appreciate what you are doing, and have a better understanding of what you are trying to say. :beer:
Linux is used as such a broad term these days (for all of us) that it's hard to talk about it as a thing. Originally, and technically it was an open source adaptation of Unix in the form of a kernel for the operating system.
Nowadays, what most people mean by Linux is the operating system plus accessories, languages, desktop environments and application programs rolled into named operating systems, like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Red Hat, among the best known. And many others, Arch, Slackware, Puppy, among a myriad of others, and the one I now use, EasyOS.
About the only thing one can say they have in common is the Linux kernel, which is not even a desktop environment, but a set of primitives usable in terminal. Because Linux is based on Unix, it is a multi-user system oriented towards institutional infrastructure use with many lower privileged users and groups with an extensive permissions structure, and a separate class of administrators who we would normally associate with an IT department.
What has developed since then are many different ideas about what graphical personal computer operating systems should look like, how they should behave, what applications should be included with them out-of-the-box, and what optional programs they should be capable of adding (ie what program repositories they should be able to access).
The way all of the myriad programs and code developed to support this vast set of systems and possibilities was through individuals and groups of people volunteering their time to A.) reverse engineer computers and hardware to develop drivers for them (since almost no hardware mfrs. provided drivers for linux systems). and B.) create systems where blocks of code could be re-used and re-combined into more and more sophisticated applications. To enable this kind of re-use, the concept of dependencies and open-source software was essential.
-
Thanks for clarifying these subjects :beer:.
To get back to testing, I've been using Mint Mate for several weeks, and one thing I've been trying to track/trace is, what causes second long freezes every few minutes or so, when watching Youtube videos using Brave.
I know this is nitpicking, but it's kind of an annoyance. I don't remember that happening in Pop OS (which uses Gnome as a default DE), so perhaps it's more like distro or DE (desktop environment) -related component thing.
So I assume, that there are some background service(s), which can't be handled through Mate's control center --> startup applications. They simply aren't shown there. But it feels like there's timer-related or intermittent service(s) using certain resources with high priority, causing the hiccups.
To get a list of services, that use timer, can be seen by entering command:
systemctl list-timers --all
In my current system, there's 12 of them:
motd-news.timer motd-news.service
fwupd-refresh.timer fwupd-refresh.service
anacron.timer anacron.service
apt-daily.timer apt-daily.service
dpkg-db-backup.timer dpkg-db-backup.service
logrotate.timer logrotate.service
an-db.timer man-db.service
plocate-updatedb.timer plocate-updatedb.service
apt-daily-upgrade.timer apt-daily-upgrade.service
systemd-tmpfiles-clean.timer systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
e2scrub_all.timer e2scrub_all.service
strim.timer fstrim.service
To get started, one on the top, 'motd-news.timer', is described as "'MOTD ? Message of the Day. "motd-news" is a package that makes a call periodically to Canonical servers to get updated news for support and informational purposes."
Source: https://canonical.com/legal/motd
On that page is also instruction of how to disable that service, so I assume it's safe to do so.
...But the file mentioned in that page doesn't exist in my current system at all, so I created it, adding entry 'ENABLED=0 to it, and rebooted, but that service was still there. Not sure why it doesn't work in this distro/DE. Maybe it does with 'bigger' Ubuntu based distros?
Anyway, alternative way to disable it (and service related to it), is to enter commands:
sudo systemctl disable motd-news.service
sudo systemctl disable motd-news.timer
And to make sure that they don't get automatically triggered/started again, is by masking them:
sudo systemctl mask motd-news.service
sudo systemctl mask motd-news.timer
Reboot to apply the changes.
We'll see how that goes.
-
So the strengths of operating systems based around a Linux core are that basically anyone who wants to can come out with their "Linux" and the same for their applications. But it also has a negative effect of creating a Babel of "Linuxs" and it is difficult to know which one will suit a person best -- especially without trying a bunch of them. But to do that, they may be different enough that each requires relearning .
The other problem is that many of these operating systems want to be installed onto hard drive in order to experience them at their full speed and capabilities. While some have so called "liveCDs" or live versions which are run-able without installation, they don't give an adequate impression of the installed version.
One alternative to full installation is to try to run a particular Linux OS in a virtual machine on another system -- a Windows version, for instance. But this often leads to other problems in speed, and usability, particularly if access to ports or other protected primary OS facilities are required. Also it's often tedious to set up and/or run a VM, and they can take up a LOT of space on HD.
A third possibility are some of the very few OSs that can be dual booted beside an existing Windows installation, and are compact enough not to seriously diminish HD space. Puppy Linux (which also comes in a variety of named OS's -- adding even more confusion) is designed to take up minimal space for the entire OS, plus applications (generally a gigabyte or less, total).
Other than the bare OS, all storage for additional applications and data can fit into a single folder within the Windows partition. Puppy linuxs typically are small enough to be loaded entirely into RAM at boot time, including applications. This allows the OS to run extremely fast, since there are greatly reduced disk accesses.
The fourth possibility is an offshoot of Puppy linux called EasyOS -- which is what I use. This OS is also extremely compact, and can be installed like Puppy Linux, beside an existing Windows installation. But the alternative that it is actually designed to work very well with is to run entirely off of a thumbdrive, without even needing the system's HD.
This makes it portable between computers. Everything is on the thumbdrive (unless you choose to store something on the HD). In effect the thumbdrive is the computer, and the actual computer is just transparent hardware that runs it.
Naturally, the faster higher quality thumbdrive will run this OS faster, but remember that the OS is generally loaded entirely into RAM during a session, so it runs at RAM speeds. The only noticeable reduction in its speed for a slower thumbdrive is while booting, or saving back to the drive at the end of the session, or as commanded during the session.
Now, yes it IS possible to install this OS on an HD, and that's what I have because that's all I use, and I want absolute top speed booting or leaving. And it is truly fast in every aspect on this recent laptop of mine.
Okay so enough about that. Back to Linux based OSs in general.
Applications. Most Linux applications were until a few years ago compiled by the developers of each separate OS to suit their OS (and their taste). Thus applications for one variety of Linux OS probably wouldn't work in a different variety. However things began to consolidate back then when Ubuntu, which had for a long time compiled it's own programs and maintained repositories of custom compiled apps, switched over to using Debian applications and package management. This saved a huge amount of similar but separate effort.
Likewise some of the OSs I'm familiar with in the Puppy Linux family switched over from using first only homebrewed programs to later some Slackware compatibility, and then Ubuntu, and finally Debian apps. But there are still many Puppy-relates OSs that use other OS's repositories and apps. EasyOS presently uses Devuan apps -- Devuan is a fork of Debian.
Anyway, again, Linux is a huge subject if talking about desktop operating systems, and it is almost impossible to quantify. But it is possible to talk about as a history, and that provides some explanation of what it means. It's very different than Windows or MacOS or Android because each of those is a single entity main tained by a single company
-
Sorry Sorveltaja, I cross posted the above without seeing yours first -- I was just continuing talking about Linux based operating systems -- not ignoring your questions.
I really don't know why Brave is not working properly in Mint OS. The only place that can help is probably a Mint OS forum, where people can test out using their similar OS and Brave. The variables are 1.) your hardware with MintOS 2,) Mint OS with Brave or 3.) a bug in Brave. Usually takes others to help figure that kind of thing out.
EDIT: I originally mistakenly wrote PopOS above instead of MintOS -- now corrected.
Also, wow, that's a LOT of timers. But not totally surprising. Mint is (or was) based on Ubuntu, and promoted as an even more user-friendly OS. So my old and possibly wrong impression of it is, that it might be even "bigger" then Ubuntu, in terms of stuff running and user stuff added on. But I'm really not familiar with it enough to really say.
-
No problem. Expanding these subjects to provide a wider perspective and background information, it's always welcomed.
Anyway, musings about Brave hiccups:
It appears that motd-news.service, or other Linux services aren't necessarily causing the hiccups in Brave; maybe it's the browser itself, or the way it works in this distro.
I turned off Brave's AI features, Wallet, Rewards and Brave newsfeed as well, but still the issue persists.
I've watched some Youtube videos with Waterfox, and so far haven't experienced such an issue. But this is by no means a definite or final analysis.
In the end, I think I'm moving from Mint Mate back to Debian or another distro which has an option to select Mate as a DE, as I'm getting relatively familiar with the way it looks and works.
-
Yesterday something happened, that messed up my Linux system (it's still Mint Mate).
My main web browsers, Waterfox and Brave don't launch anymore (they are both flatpaks). Even their taskbar launch icons have changed. Those app related files, and actual executables are still there in the folders, and can be launched from there, but all the settings and bookmarks are gone. Like a sort of "zeroing" or reset.
I have a separate Win7 disk connected, which I was able to access before from Linux, but now I get an error:
"Error mounting /dev/sda2 at /media/<username>/xxxxx: Filesystem type ntfs not configured in kernel"
Updating the system through control center or terminal keeps on failing, throwing errors.
I can't verify it, but there's a possibility, that my Linux system has been compromized.
"I'll test this distro only shortly", using rather weak password. But that "short" testing has already expanded to several weeks. To add to that, I haven't made any system backups either. I have just felt it to be a boring task. But reinstalling the system, redoing all the settings to preferred state, and installing preferred software, is outright tedious.
My important personal files are not lost, though. They are about the only ones I've almost regurarly copied to either usb stick or separate disk.
So this is an example and warning of how not to manage an operating system.
Also, It's always a good thing to have another working, or fallback system, when this kind of thing happens. Whatever OS or device it is, as long as one is able use it to pay the bills, read email, and browse the net, among other basic things.
-
That's terrible, sorveltaja! :scratch:
I've never had that happen or anything like it.
I would like to help, but I don't know the details of your installed system. I do suspect it is possible to fix it, but I'd need a lot more information to work with.
If I remember correctly you are running Mint in a virtual machine in a Windows system?
Okay, just as a start at recovery, would you be adverse in creating an EasyOS thumbdrive, and then booting from that so we can look at what's happening on your HD? I'm really most familiar with EasyOS and its tools for that.
To create an EasyOS thumbdrive, if you are able to get the following files into Mint (or any other Linux):
easydd makes bootable thumbdrives and installs an OS image to it:
https://bkhome.org/files/easydd.gz
And the latest version of EasyOS (7.2):
https://distro.ibiblio.org/easyos/amd64/releases/excalibur/2026/7.2/
Usage:
Just insert a USB thumbdrive of 4 or more Gb and start easydd. It will ask you for the location of the image file (the EasyOS 7.2 version you downloaded), and the thumbdrive name. The rest is automatic.
When done, you can re-boot with the USB thumbdrive inserted, and if your computer BIOS is set to be able to legacy boot from USB (before the HD) EasyOS will start up. Answer the first boot questions about country and keyboard, etc. and you'll be good to go.
Let me know if you do any of this, and we can go further.....
ps.
If you can't use Mint (or other Linux OS) to download or run the above files, but you can still run Windows, you can use a program called USB-Image-Tool to write the EasyOS image to a USB thumbdrive. (It is not recommended that you use any other Win USB image writers ...like "Etcher").
USB-Image-Tool is available here:
https://www.alexpage.de/usb-image-tool/download/
-
May not be related to your problems , but windows has a bad habit of flagging disks as mounted and locked and not releasing them .
I have this problem if I launch Win11 and it sees my backup disk (which is ntfs ) . when i swap back to linux, the disk will be locked out until I run chkdsk in windows on it a couple of times.
Win 11 is just a PITA.
-
Vtsteam:
Thanks for the offer, good to know.
I should have been clearer about the subject. It (Linux system) isn't VM instance, but actual install on my pc. That Mint Mate installation is still accessible. It boots just fine, but some parts of it are apparently broken.
For example, when trying to uninstall Gimp, it gives following errors:
(Reading database ... 571681 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing gimp (2.10.36-3ubuntu0.24.04.1) ...
Setting up linux-image-6.17.0-14-generic (6.17.0-14.14~24.04.1) ...
Setting up linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic (6.17.0-14.14~24.04.1) ...
/etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/dkms:
* dkms: running auto installation service for kernel 6.17.0-14-generic
Sign command: /usr/bin/kmodsign
Signing key: /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.priv
Public certificate (MOK): /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.der
Building module:
Cleaning build area...
make -j6 KERNELRELEASE=6.17.0-14-generic -C /lib/modules/6.17.0-14-generic/build M=/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.16/build...(bad exit status: 2)
Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 6.17.0-14-generic (x86_64)
Consult /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.16/build/make.log for more information.
dkms autoinstall on 6.17.0-14-generic/x86_64 succeeded for nvidia
dkms autoinstall on 6.17.0-14-generic/x86_64 failed for virtualbox(10)
Error! One or more modules failed to install during autoinstall.
Refer to previous errors for more information.
* dkms: autoinstall for kernel 6.17.0-14-generic
...fail!
run-parts: /etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/dkms exited with return code 11
dpkg: error processing package linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic (--configure):
installed linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 11
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04:
linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 depends on linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic; however:
Package linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic is not configured yet.
dpkg: error processing package linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of linux-generic-hwe-24.04:
linux-generic-hwe-24.04 depends on linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 (= 6.17.0-14.14~24.04.1); however:
Package linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 is not configured yet.
dpkg: error processing package linux-generic-hwe-24.04 (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils (0.27-2build1) ...
Processing triggers for mate-menus (1.26.1+mint1) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.12.0-4build2) ...
Processing triggers for mailcap (3.70+nmu1ubuntu1) ...
Errors were encountered while processing:
linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic
linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04
linux-generic-hwe-24.04
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
A package failed to install. Trying to recover:
Setting up linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic (6.17.0-14.14~24.04.1) ...
/etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/dkms:
* dkms: running auto installation service for kernel 6.17.0-14-generic
Sign command: /usr/bin/kmodsign
Signing key: /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.priv
Public certificate (MOK): /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.der
Building module:
Cleaning build area...
make -j6 KERNELRELEASE=6.17.0-14-generic -C /lib/modules/6.17.0-14-generic/build M=/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.16/build...(bad exit status: 2)
Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 6.17.0-14-generic (x86_64)
Consult /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.16/build/make.log for more information.
dkms autoinstall on 6.17.0-14-generic/x86_64 succeeded for nvidia
dkms autoinstall on 6.17.0-14-generic/x86_64 failed for virtualbox(10)
Error! One or more modules failed to install during autoinstall.
Refer to previous errors for more information.
* dkms: autoinstall for kernel 6.17.0-14-generic
...fail!
run-parts: /etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/dkms exited with return code 11
dpkg: error processing package linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic (--configure):
installed linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 11
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04:
linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 depends on linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic; however:
Package linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic is not configured yet.
dpkg: error processing package linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of linux-generic-hwe-24.04:
linux-generic-hwe-24.04 depends on linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 (= 6.17.0-14.14~24.04.1); however:
Package linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04 is not configured yet.
dpkg: error processing package linux-generic-hwe-24.04 (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Processing triggers for linux-image-6.17.0-14-generic (6.17.0-14.14~24.04.1) ...
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/dkms:
* dkms: running auto installation service for kernel 6.17.0-14-generic
Sign command: /usr/bin/kmodsign
Signing key: /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.priv
Public certificate (MOK): /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.der
Building module:
Cleaning build area...
make -j6 KERNELRELEASE=6.17.0-14-generic -C /lib/modules/6.17.0-14-generic/build M=/var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.16/build...(bad exit status: 2)
Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 6.17.0-14-generic (x86_64)
Consult /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.16/build/make.log for more information.
dkms autoinstall on 6.17.0-14-generic/x86_64 succeeded for nvidia
dkms autoinstall on 6.17.0-14-generic/x86_64 failed for virtualbox(10)
Error! One or more modules failed to install during autoinstall.
Refer to previous errors for more information.
* dkms: autoinstall for kernel 6.17.0-14-generic
...fail!
run-parts: /etc/kernel/postinst.d/dkms exited with return code 11
dpkg: error processing package linux-image-6.17.0-14-generic (--configure):
installed linux-image-6.17.0-14-generic package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 11
Errors were encountered while processing:
linux-headers-6.17.0-14-generic
linux-headers-generic-hwe-24.04
linux-generic-hwe-24.04
linux-image-6.17.0-14-generic
After all, it's not a critical system for me, and as mentioned earlier, I've been planning to replace it with another distro anyway.
BillTodd:
It seems you aren't the only one having things like that happen. Rob Braxman has a video where he describes how Win11 and TPM made his dual boot Linux installation inaccessible, without asking or informing about it (~21min):
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1eX_vvAlUc
-
Hi Sorveltaja, sounds like there are linux kernel problems. I wonder if the flatpaks might have had a hand in that. Generally it is thought on the boards I am on that flatpaks are problematic, while appimages are much preferred. Explanation to others unfamiliar with the terms.... these are a relatively recent form of "generic" application packages. Each uses a different method but they basically have all needed dependencies built in, and are supposedly OS agnostic. They are supposed to be able to be installed and work in any Linux.
As I said though, it seems flatpaks are not viewed favorably, at least in the Puppy Linux/EasyOS world. Appimages seem to work very well.
-
Yeah, I pretty much like the idea of appimage. I went and searched Waterfox one, and thought that 'appimagehub' was a legit source.
Anyway, when launching the expected browser app downloaded from that site, it showed only a text file, which begins like that:
!!!DON'T USE APPIMAGEHUB!!!
.--. _
|o_o | | |
|:_/ | | |
// \ \ |_|
(| | ) _
/'\_ _/`\ (_)
\___)=(___/
**Many AppImages on the platform come from unknown or suspicious users.**
I have no idea of what's going on that website, or is it a scam or prank or whatever. So obviously one has to be careful where to download appimages.
On a positive note, there is a site, where the actual Waterfox appimage (among many other apps) is available. I tested it, and it worked right away.
This is about a single app, but it seems that Github-related sites might be more thrustworthy trustworthy source:
https://appimage.github.io/
-
Yes I agree, all of the appimages I have used were from github, where everything is very transparent. That is where the source code is kept, and issues can be logged, and also the original authors are the ones who have posted and maintained the code there.
Also, a lot of large single application websites also now host appimages for their own applications on their own download page and those are trustworthy.
But third party websites aren't as trustworthy since who knows where the code they are hosting comes from?
-
So I replaced Mint Mate with Debian: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-13.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
It really doesn't appear to be that different from server-based one, that I tried earlier; about the same amount of basic apps installed out of the box.
What comes to appimages, although they include all dependency files, they may not work, if required version of fuse-related components aren't already installed.
On the other hand, another form of portable apps is to use either zipped or tarball (.tar.bz2) versions, if available. They don't seem to require mounting, or any extra system components to be installed, to be able to work.
An example in this case is Waterfox: https://cdn.waterfox.com/waterfox/releases/6.6.8/Linux_x86_64/waterfox-6.6.8.tar.bz2
To use it, first that file needs to be extracted. In file manager --> right-click --> extract here. Resulting folder is 'waterfox'.
In that folder is a file 'waterfox-bin', which is the actual executable. If it doesn't launch by double clicking, make sure that it has permission to do so, by right-clicking it --> permissions --> Allow executing file as program.
Another example is Mercury browser. which is a fork of Firefox: https://github.com/Alex313031/Mercury/releases
I've used it as a secondary web browser since I started using Linux almost a year ago. It has never required anything extra system components to be installed either; it just works. Unfortunately it's bit outdated, but nevertheless, it has worked well for me.
-
Yup I use Seamonkey, downloaded from Seamonkey/Mozilla as a tarball, and it is quite portable and self contained. It's a suite of browser, mail, and html authoring software -- actually the distant grandchild of Netscape.
I like it particularly because of the way all settings are granular and in the preferences menu -- old fashioned style. I pair that with NoScript and disallow scripts generally, allowing them only temporarily as needed on a particular webpage. You quickly learn which ones are needed and which ones are not.
Lately some sites have been making it difficult to use, (Cloudflare, for one) but I have workarounds for that, or just avoid those sites in general.