MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: ibuildstuff4u on August 25, 2012, 04:53:42 PM
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I just bought a CNC lathe. It's a prolight 3000 and is loaded with all the goodies. There is a automatic tool changer, a pneumatic chuck that can be opened and closed via the computer as well as the door for the machine. It also came with a standard three jaw chuck. As a bonus the chuck can be removed and a 5c collet will fit inside of the spindle! The tool changer holds four 1/2" tool holders which came with and four 1/2" round tools for drilling and boring.
The bad part is it's missing the control box, so I will have to build my own but for $500.00 I can't complain. Now I need a CNC mill to go along with it.
Any one here have a similar machine?
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Never knew CNC lathes as small as this existed! Very cool
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There are a few companies that make one even smaller, but for me they are too small. This one has a 4" chuck, 6" swing and 10" in the Z axis. The only option it doesn't have is a tail stock, but I only intend to turn small items so that shouldn't be a problem.
Here is a picture of a smaller machine made by D&M. The seller has this one for sale too and it has been converted to flash drive. It's a bit smaller than mine, but larger than a sherline lathe. If any one is interested let me know and I can get more info for you. It's located near Kenosha Wi.
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Got a Boxford TCL125 thats about the same size.
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Wow, that's going to be a nice machine when you get it running! I envy you with the toolchanger but don't envy you having to learn how to program it.
What control components does it still have? Is the spindle motor AC w/VFD or DC? I assume you're going to go with Mach3 or EMC?
I'm fixing up a Denford ORAC and am getting pretty close. It came with no electrics at all and I built it up from some stuff I had already, a lot of misc eBay purchases and some used parts that nice folks gave me. It has a 3/4 hp Baldor DC motor with a KBIC-120 speed controller that is controlled by Mach via CNC4PC C11 multifunction B.O.B with a CNC4PC C3 spindle index card/sensor for threading (hopefully.)
I'm in the process now of fitting a twin QCTP plate that bolts to the carriage and will have to learn Mach3 tool offsets.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/ORAC1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/DriveEnd.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/Electrics4.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/MotorMount2.jpg)
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The lathe is missing the control box which had the stepper drives, power supply, breakout board, etc. However it came with the stepper motors, spindle motor, spindle motor drive, optical pickup for the spindle and limit switches so there is a good starting point. The spindle is a DC motor and I think it has the same board as your machine.
I'm planning to buy three KL6050 stepper drives and a Bob Campbell breakout board and run it with Mach 3. I had a D&M mill in the past and did a retrofit to it so I'm familiar with putting the control box together, but am worried about a few things such as how to intergate the spindle pick up to the breakout board and how the tool changer is going to be programed to index as I have never played around with Mach 3 for the lathe, only for the milling machine that I had.
I used the Bob Campbell breakout board in the past and really liked it because it had three power supplies built into it so you just have to hook it up to 110vAC and it will provide two isolated 5 volt sources for the board and an additional 12 volt supply for relays or proximity limit switches.
I see your using a CNC4pc C3 card for the spindle sensor and I will have to look into that to see if I need one for my machine.
Looking at your pictures I see a KB signal isolator, what does that do? Also where did you get the stepper drive from? Was that original to the machine?
Looks like a neat project you will have to keep me posted on your progress.
Dale P.
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I just caught this thread. That is a cool lathe... Looking forward to seeing this restored.
The KL6050's are pretty good... but what is a Bob Campbell breakout board? I haven't heard of that one.
Eric
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Here is a link for the breakout board.
http://campbelldesigns.net/breakout-board.php (http://campbelldesigns.net/breakout-board.php)
Also some pictures of my D&M mill before and after I retrofitted the machine to work with Mach 3 as the old control system only worked with D&M custom software. The mill was OK, but too small for my needs so I sold it a few years ago but am now looking for a larger CNC mill to replace it.
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Looking at your pictures I see a KB signal isolator, what does that do? Also where did you get the stepper drive from? Was that original to the machine?
I had a terrible time getting the analog 0-10VDC output circuit in the C11 B.O.B. to control the KB DC speed control. The instructions were not specific & clear enough (to me) as to the "isolation" factor and I killed one KB and vaporized a track on the C11 over the period of time I tried to get it to work.
I finally read the KB manual (free .pdf available online) more thoroughly and it clearly shows that to implement the voltage following feature, you either have to know exactly what you're doing re: the isolation thing (I don't) or use their KBSI-240D Signal Isolator which magically & totally isolates the source control voltage from the mains voltage in the KB speed control. All I know is that before I picked up one on eBay and hooked it up per the instructions, all I could get were dazzling flashes, fuses popping or the motor running at berserk speeds, totally out of control! It works great now and gives me exact Mach control of spindle speed to within 5 or 10 rpm.
The 1996 SmartStep/3 stepper drive board is an extra one I bought (used) from the Denford folks in the U.K. as a backup. Last year I had a long-running job using my little modified Denford MicroMill (w/lathe mod) and was afraid the original board might die on me before I finished the 1100 part run. The rectifier bridge in the original board died early on in the project and although I was able to replace it cheap and keep the board running, I was afraid something else might fail so I bought a spare. The ORAC came along earlier this year and I decided to use the SmartStep on it to keep the budget low. It's only rated at 2A/40V but seems to work well with the Xylotex 2.8A stepper motors. They're underdriven but in early test runs seem to work fine for my needs. I'm old & not in a big rush when I make things.;)
Hopefully I can make enough money with it to pay for the stuff I've had to buy for it so far and move up to some more powerful drivers & steppers later. The toolholder plate and twin QCTP's are heavy and will need more power to shove around if I start yearning for more speed.
Keep the pics coming as you move forward with your Prolight. I'll bet your toolchanger is common with those used on other small lathes.... like an Emco C5 or 6 or possibly even the Denford ORAC like was an option on mine. If so, the Mach thing has been done with them and there should be threads on how to hook up and program them over on the Mach support forum. Some of those guys are scary smart!
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The build is going to go slow as I have to find the budget to buy all the parts that I need. I will make sure to take lots of pictures and post them as I go.
I keep looking at different drives and power supply combinations to save money but I worry if I go too cheap I will regret it and end up with a slow machine that is easy to miss steps with. My D&M mill was easy to stall and could only take light cuts and I don't want to end up with something like that again. I should have replaced the stepper drives while I was at it when I did the retrofit.
Dale P.
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The build is going to go slow as I have to find the budget to buy all the parts that I need. I will make sure to take lots of pictures and post them as I go.
I keep looking at different drives and power supply combinations to save money but I worry if I go too cheap I will regret it and end up with a slow machine that is easy to miss steps with. My D&M mill was easy to stall and could only take light cuts and I don't want to end up with something like that again. I should have replaced the stepper drives while I was at it when I did the retrofit.
10-4 on the budget situation...I feel your pain brother!:(
I bumped into an online Prolight 3000 spec sheet yesterday (can't seem to find it today) and it mentioned the stepper motor spec. at 150 oz/in. Not sure if that's what they all came with but it seems a little on the puny side. Mine's not much higher than that (190 I think) and so far so good but it won't do any hogging of steel that's for sure.
On the bright side though it did say your spindle motor is 1 hp DC so that ought'a be great.:)
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Yes, I saw that spec sheet too. I'm hoping that 150oz will be good enough for a lathe as the cutting forces are much less than a mill, but if I have any trouble with them I will up grade them in the future. I'm going to buy a larger power supply and stepper drivers than the old motors need and just tune them down so if I do replace the motors I won't have to worry about the drives or power supply being large enough. I should be able to just replace the Z and X axis and leave the third motor for the tool changer alone so the up grade will be around $100.
Thankfully 99% of the stuff I cut is aluminum so there shouldn't be a problem
Dale P.
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I should be able to just replace the Z and X axis and leave the third motor for the tool changer alone so the up grade will be around $100.
Sounds like a good plan Dale. Do the steppers hook up direct or is there a timing belt reduction pulley setup between the motors & ballscrews? If so, 150 oz/in can do quite a bit of work on a small lathe.
Man, you need to share your source of power supply & drivers for $100; that sounds great!
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Ha I wish, the $100 is just for two new stepper motors if needed. The new control system is going to cost hundreds.
Three KL 6050 stepper drives $50.00 each = $170 shipped
Breakout board $110.00 shipped
50 volt 400w transformer with capacitors $150 shipped
box to house all electronics $100.00 shipped
Two nema 23 stepper motors (if needed) $100.00
Total = $530.00 to $630.00 and that doesn't include wire, fans, switches, etc. Could be as high as $800 in the end but I really hope not.
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Dale those KL6050's look to be a good deal: $50 for 5A/60V. That's a lotta power for the money. Have they been reliable and consistent for you? I may get one later if I have to add power to the Z-axis.
Milton D.
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I haven't tried them yet. I only read some reviews on CNC zone and it seems like they work pretty well. The KL 5056 is my second choice. It has a bit less power but more micro steps and other features.
Dale P.
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I bought the lathe, but haven't been able to pick it up yet. It's still sitting at the sellers house :( It's a three plus hour drive to get there and I just haven't had the time to pick it up. I just found out that I have off Friday and it works out with the seller so it looks like I'm going to have my machine by the weekend!
I can't wait to get it and take a better look at the inside to see how the retrofit will work.
Dale P.
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I just found out that I have off Friday and it works out with the seller so it looks like I'm going to have my machine by the weekend!
I can't wait to get it and take a better look at the inside to see how the retrofit will work.
Man, are we not a strange bunch? We get all excited about getting expensive machines that don't even work and then can't wait to get our hands on them so we can spend hours & hours working on them not to mention the piles of cash thrown at 'em.
My wife has that roll-ey eyes look permanently tattooed on her mug these days....looks just like an internet forum rolleyes smiley. She's had it for almost 25 yrs now.:)
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Well I got the machine home Friday and have spent some time taking it apart to see how it ticks. I have a pretty good idea on how I'm going to retrofit it to work with Mach 3, but figuring out the spindle speed control has been a challenge so far.
The spindle motor board has a manual input for a pot switch and also a 0 to 10 volt control for the computer. The pot switch on the lathe has an On and Off switch connected to the back of the pot switch and will select the from computer control to manual control. I'm pretty sure I can simply reuse this and hook it up to a breakout board with a output for a 0 to 10 volt VFD. There is a LCD screen that displays the spindle RPM and the back of the board hooks up to the computer. I think it needs the original software to make it work so I'm just going to remove it and throw it out. RPM will be displayed on the monitor any way.
The trouble that I'm having with the speed control is that it's hooked up to a large resistor and relay and I'm not sure what they are there for. I think it's to provide a slow start for the motor to prevent blowing fuses and damage to the speed control but I'm not positive. If so I will simply reuse the circuit, the only trouble is the relays coil needs 28 volts to operate and my control box will not have a power supply that will work. I could add a 24 volt supply, but then my breakout board would have to switch a 12 volt relay to turn on the 24 volt relay which seems kinda silly. I could replace the relay, but I worry about finding one that will work as it has a ton of contacts that are all being used. *Does anyone know if Mach 3 offers a spindle slow start when using the computer to control the spindle speed? If so I could remove the slow start circuit and let Mach 3 do it.
Here are some pictures of the lathe. Please let me know if you have any ideas on how I should hook up my spindle speed control to the breakout board.
Thanks Dale P.
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Here are some more pictures of the lathe. As I suspected the tool changer has a micro switch so it knows when the tool is in position. Hopefully this will be easy to interface with Mach 3. The machine also has limit switches on all of the axises which will be nice to have.
The machine has a nice Baldor 1 hp motor for the spindle and an optical pickup on the spindle as well as an encoder. I think it needed one to let the computer know the spindle speed and the second one was for the LCD screen on the front panel. I'm not going to keep the LCD screen as I don't think it will work with out the original software so I can use ether pickup for the computer, I'm just not sure how to hook up the encoder to the breakout board so I probably will just use the optical pickup.
The lathe also has a pneumatic chuck and a 110vac solenoid so it can be opened and closed with the computer. The plexiglass door also has a pneumatic cylinder and solenoid so the computer can open and close it too! This will be easy to wire up to a breakout board and I will be able to operate them with a simple G code command.
The seller gave me a second chuck for the lathe that works with a standard key instead of the pneumatic chuck and to my surprise it was a Bison brand chuck!
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Cripes, that puppy looks brand-new! You lucky feller you.
I'm confused as to your ref to a vfd; isn't that a Baldor DC motor? The board in the upper center of the electronics unit sure looks like a DC motor speed control. If so it should have trim pots for accel, min/max speed, etc. Seems strange they'd put that big honking resistor in the circuit. Does it have a brand name on it? Sure would be nice to get your hands on a manual and schematic for the machine. It'd help a lot.
You're gonna have a great machine when you get it running! :beer:
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Sorry I wrote that wrong, your right it's not a VFD, it's a DC motor and drive. It's a Minarik pcm21000a . I found some good info on the web about the drive, but nothing showing the use of the resistor as it's hooked up. Like I said, I'm pretty sure it's to provide a soft start for the motor but I have to take a better look at the circuit before I can be sure. The old control box hooked up to the relay and must have used it to turn the spindle on and off, but it's a 28 volt relay so hooking it up will be hard unless I find a new 12 volt relay to take it's place.
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.....The trouble that I'm having with the speed control is that it's hooked up to a large resistor and relay and I'm not sure what they are there for. I think it's to provide a slow start for the motor to prevent blowing fuses and damage to the speed control but I'm not positive. ......
Dale,
I wonder if that's actually a braking resistor? Just cutting the power to a motor it will (a) freewheel to a halt, and (b) generate its own voltage. You can brake a motor by applying a dead short, but it can give a current surge - so maybe the resistor is across the motor when its stopped, and to give safer/expedited braking when you hit e-stop. You really need to try & trace the circuit around that relay etc. to find out what the designer felt it needed.
Dave
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Hi,
Cute lathe!
The old control box hooked up to the relay and must have used it to turn the spindle on and off, but it's a 28 volt relay so hooking it up will be hard unless I find a new 12 volt relay to take it's place.
If you have a hard time finding a suitable 12 volt relay that would be identical to your current 28 volt one, you can replace it with two. Just connect the coils of the two 12 volt relays in parallel and use it as one relay (after carefully tracing the original connections and making sure that the new ones are identical...) This way you can replace a hard-to-find relay with two easy-to-find ones if needed.
Cheers,
Jari
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I bet your right about the braking resistor! I will have to take some time this week and draw out the circuit and see how it works.
Looking at the instructions for the Minarik speed control I see it also offers some braking but I'm guessing it's not as good as using the large resistor. So far it looks like they hooked up the E-stop to the braking feature on the Minarik board so there would be even more braking when pressed.
As for the original relay I'm going to start looking for a replacement since I can't think of an easy way to hook it up. Most breakout boards offer a 12 volt source to power up relays and this one needs 24 to 28 volts to work. Using two relays is a good thought too if I can't find the correct replacement.
Thanks for the ideas guys!
Dale P.
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Just picked up the same unit without control box, I will be following this project. New to CNC so this should be fun. :D
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Really! That's cool. I would love to see some pictures. I pretty much have my retrofit figured out so I would be more than happy to share you the details. My build is going to be slow though as I don't have the cash to buy everything right now.
Im going to bolt a large metal box to the back of the machine to house the stepper drives and electronics and will start rewiring everything to the box. When the budget allows I will be able to buy the drives and power supply and wire them up.
Dale P.
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Dale,
I might be getting one next week too. Look at my post for more info.
Paul
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Wow, That's so strange that we all found the same lathe this month. I have been watching E-bay and Craigs list for bench top lathes and mills for quite some time now and have never seen this model until last month when I accidentally found a guy with one to sell. I just keep seeing the little D&M machines and the overly expensive Emco machines for sale.
Paul, it looks like your machine is going to come with the stepper drives and if you need it I have software and a handbook on how to operate the machine. From what I understand you may also need a card to insert into the computer to make it work. Some of these machines will only run on an older DOS operating computer so hopefully yours is newer and works with windows. Because of all this I was happy that the seller didn't have the controller as I didn't want to have to pay for it and then find out that I would have rather built my own.
Let us know if you get the machine and what came with it.
Dale P.
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Dale,
I think everything that shows up in the pic is what comes with it, maybe other parts are inside, but who knows, just have to wait and see. It might be a older model and they did a upgrade, so I better keep my old computer parts that I was going to toss out just in case.
Paul
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It looks like everything that you need! One of the boxes is the stepper drive and I think the second is the computer! It looks like the lathe has a tool changer just like mine.
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Now there's friggin' three of you and you all suck.;)
Sorry, I'm just jealous.:)
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Dale, I'm following the other thread on cnczone also. I was checking out the wiring today and you do not have to do away with the rpm display and you can disconnect the D4 plug on the display/encoder board and connect to 0-10 v to control the spindle speed. Disconnect the serial cable on display/encoder board and apply 5vdc to pin 4(-) and pin 7(+) this powers the display and rpm encoder.. You can still use the speed control to manually control speed and select computer control. I have the link to the speed control if needed. Can you help me with the wiring on the steppers? I believe they have seven wires. Also I see you figured out the brake/power relay is 120vac. Thanks
I'll take pictures when I get a chance.
:) I picked mine up for a whooping $25.
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$25.00! Where did you pick it up from?
I see you also have the automatic door on your machine. I hooked mine up to an extention cord and it works good. I'm going to hook it up so the computer can open and close it.
I was about to toss the spindle speed board and install my switches in that spot, but it looks like I will see if I can get it working. Do you know if the board uses the encoder to read the RPM or if it uses the optical pickup. The reason I ask is I think I'm going to use the optical pickup to send the speed back to the breakout board so Mach 3 can do threading. Another option is to add a second optical pickup such as the C3 Index Pulse Card from CNC 4 PC.
As for the stepper motors they are seven wire motors, but there are only four wires running to each motor. If you see more than four wires running to the motor the other ones are for the limit switches. You can see the limit switches if you carefully look under the bellows.
Have you figured out which breakout board you going to use yet?
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School auction. It uses the encoder, I left the optical sensor off when checking the motor and speed control and it still read the rpm's . Not sure on which breakout board or drivers yet this is a first from me.
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:) I picked mine up for a whooping $25.
:jaw: :bang:
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No kidding. It makes you wonder how much stuff gets thrown out every year too!
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See what's available in your area. http://m.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,nc/browse/home?tm=m (http://m.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,nc/browse/home?tm=m)
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Can I ask, what's your thoughts on Gecko G540?
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Dale, can you post more pictures of the turret?
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I thought about using the G540 too, but I think you can put together a better controller by buying separate parts. In the end the G540 would be less wiring though and leave you an extra axis incase you burn one out.
The G540 is $250 and has four stepper drives and a built in breakout board which is nice, but you only get 3.5 amps per axis. If I use a KL 6050 stepper drive I can get 5 amps per drive @ $150 for three drives leaving $100 for a breakout board. I guess it depends on how many amps we need for the motors. I haven't been able to pull one of them to get the specs off from it and my motors are all turned so I can't read the label. Can you read any of your motors?
Here is a picture of my tool changer. It has four positions for standard tools and four more for round tools such as boaring bars or drill bits.
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Dale,
I did not get the Prolight lathe yet but I did get a pic of the serial no. Is there a way to tell how old it is by that?
Paul
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Thanks.
Link to stepper www.electrosales.com/warner/pdf/motion/Catalogslosyn-c.pdf (http://www.electrosales.com/warner/pdf/motion/Catalogslosyn-c.pdf)
SLO-SYN Hold 150oz steps 200
TYPE M063-CS06. 3.35v. 2.9A
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Methinks ya'll ought to get some modern stepper motors to go with your new drivers while you're at it. 150 in/oz is pretty puny; especially on the Z axis. Prices on modern hybrid motors are pretty reasonable these days.
Actually, the whole machine is pretty useless and you should shove 'em out to the curb. Just let me know and I'll meet you there. I'll even bring the beer. :beer:
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The stepper motors have a belt drive on both axises and it looks like 3:1 ratio so the 150 oz could really be 450? That's still not a lot but more than 150oz. I have a manual for the machine that states a rapid travel at 25 ipm. I'm not sure if thats good for a small machine of this size or if that number is slow.
Dickeybird your probably right about changing the motors, I will have to look and see if I can find some that fit as the X axis is really tight fitting.
Pjf134, I'm not sure how you can tell the age of the machine, but the guy who sold me his said it was from 1998.
Cycletec, I was thinking about the G540 again today and wonder what you would do with the two extra drives since your machine doesn't have the tool changer. It would be cheaper to go with separate drives and breakout board, but a little easier to wire if you use the G540. I also thought I guy could cut a hole in the back of the machine and mount the G540 in the back since there is some space between the two panels. A power supply could be located behind the door that covers the Z axis stepper motor. The retrofit would be pretty easy and all hidden inside the lathe.
Here are some pictures that show where you could mount the G540 and power supply.
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The stepper motors have a belt drive on both axises and it looks like 3:1 ratio so the 150 oz could really be 450? That's still not a lot but more than 150oz. I have a manual for the machine that states a rapid travel at 25 ipm. I'm not sure if thats good for a small machine of this size or if that number is slow.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the belt drive! The 3:1 ratio does give it a bunch more grunt.
25 ipm will probably be poo-poo'd by the "experts" as being slug-slow but will be fine on a machine of that size. That's what I have mine set at right now and it's fine for my level of experience. You won't be cutting near that fast in most cases anyway; it just won't have those super-fast rapids you see on all those "Hey ya'll, watch this!" YouTube videos.
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Dale, I ordered the G540 and yes I was planning on mounting in the rear with the power supply. In the future I would like to build the 8 position turret. Do you know how the prolight turret locks internally? Thanks for all the input, Phil
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Hey Phil, lookee what I found....you may've seen this already but I just bumped into it this morning. A bit ambitious for me right now but maybe when I retire. (Hah, what a joke!)
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/8-tool-rotary-turret-18508/
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DICKEYBIRD, just what I was looking for. Thank You
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You're very welcome; all in a good days work!
Milton
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Phil, I don't know what locks the turret at this time. I'm guessing that there is a gear drive inside it which could make it impossible to move with out turning the stepper motor, but when I try to move it back and forth by hand there isn't any movement or backlash which makes me think that there must be some kind of lock. I don't plan to take it apart any time soon, but if I do I will make sure to take lots of pictures for you.
There is a switch mounted inside to let the computer know when it's in position. Hopefully Mach 3 will be able to work with this.
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Thanks
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How about an up date??? Paul did you end up getting your machine?
Phil, Did you get your G 540 stepper drives? What are you going to use for a power supply? Do you plan to reuse the same stepper motors?
Me... I haven't done much yet still in the planning stage.
Dale P.
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How about an up date???
Exactly. Geez, what could possibly be more important than getting those machines up & running?
If you're gonna just sit on em'...send em' to me! :beer:
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Sorry been busy at work. Yes I got the G540, reusing steppers for now and trying a 24v 6.5a power supply we had sitting at the shop. I have it running but need to figure out how to set up motor settings with gear ratio in mach3. I should have time this weekend to work on it.
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Phil, take a look here: http://www.aquickcnc.com/tutorials/stepper-motor-calculations/ Do the calculation and multiply the result by your pulley ratio.
Have fun this weekend playing with it!
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Thanks I think I figured it out.
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Update .... up and running. Having issue with indexing and low rpm accuracy with the HE sensor I installed (tried thinner and wider plate), rpm not consistent under 125 rpm and will not index. Ordered C3 board to see if it will correct issue.
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I just ordered a breakout board for my machine and also bought a C3 board for the spindle pickup. The wires were broke off my lathes factory pickup so I figured that the C3 board would be the best way to replace it.
I ended up going all out on the breakout board and bought a Combo board from Sound Logic.
http://campbelldesigns.net/Combo-board.php (http://campbelldesigns.net/Combo-board.php)
It was a little pricey, but has everything I need in one board so there will be less wiring in the end. The Combo board has a built in spindle speed control, four relays, and three separate power supplies so all you have to do is power the board up with 110 VAC and it provides power for all of the circuits. If I bought the C-11 board from CNC4PC I would have needed two 5 volt power supplies and one 12 volt supply.
Now I just need to figure out if I'm going to go with a toroid transformer or switching power supply for the stepper drives.
Dale P.
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Dickeybird, can I ask what settings you are using in mach3 for indexing? With the HE sensor I was using the rpm reading was correct to the built in gauge and I could see index light in Mach while turning by hand but at any speed higher than hand speed light was not consistent (can you see the light in the diagnostic screen change with the spindle running), I ordered the cnc4pc c3 card thinking I had an issue with sensor and still have the same issue. Followed the instructions in Mach on the size of the slot and double checked everything still no good. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Phil
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Sorry, I just now saw your question and I'm about to collapse into the rack. A long, long day.
I used the info that came with the C3 to size the hole in the disc instead of what Mach says and didn't have much trouble. Are you trying to control the speed via Mach or just read rpm at this point? Here's a few screen captures of my setup. Hope this helps if not I hope to have more time tomorrow night. My brain is gone.
edit: Seems like I had trouble with debounce...note the Gen screen debounce settings.
Good Luck!
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Sorry, I just now saw your question and I'm about to collapse into the rack. A long, long day.
I used the info that came with the C3 to size the hole in the disc instead of what Mach says and didn't have much trouble. Are you trying to control the speed via Mach or just read rpm at this point? Here's a few screen captures of my setup. Hope this helps if not I hope to have more time tomorrow night. My brain is gone.
edit: Seems like I had trouble with debounce...note the Gen screen debounce settings.
Good Luck!
Thanks, I'm having an issue getting indexing to work, in diagnostic screen if I turn the spindle by hand the index indicator light in Mach flashes as expected but at speed its not consistent. Running a thread code it will not start cutting the thread, spindle starts and both axis get to start position and stays there I think its waiting to get an index signal. Have you tried to do any threading? Phil
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No, haven't done any threading yet but will need to fairly soon. I still have to turn on the synch function. I do have a dead accurate spindle RPM readout and can control the speed with M3/S word commands.
Does your spindle speed DRO indicate the correct RPM?
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Its close to the one built in from 75 rpm up and I can control with the s word command. I would think if the rpms are correct index should work. I dont understand why when looking at the diagnostics screen I cant see a flashing index light when spindle is running it flashes randomly.
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Seems like I read somewhere that the flashing light might not be a reliable indicator due to screen refresh issues?? It also might be an issue with Mach Turn as I've heard it has a few problems in several areas; especially in threading & constant velocity. Might be worth asking over on the Mach forum; there are some smart people there. I spend a lot of time ther asking ignant questions and they haven't thrown me out yet!
I haven't looked at my diag screen yet but will try to do so this weekend. Gotta try some threading tests soon too!
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So what happened to you guys? Way over a month and no updates!
Did the cops arrest ya'll and throw yuse in jail for stealing?
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Well, I got stuck working on some other projects. I have a 15 year old nephew that is building his own speakers and wanted to know what he should use for an amplifier. I said if you going to build the speakers why not build the amp too! So we made up our own PCB board for a 125 watt amp at 8ohms and are in the process of soldering it all up. The amp design is a NMOS 200 and can be seen here.
https://sites.google.com/site/quasisdiyaudiosite/nmos-series/nmos200-1 (https://sites.google.com/site/quasisdiyaudiosite/nmos-series/nmos200-1)
Here are some pictures of the PCB board that we made. After etching the board you have to drill and de burr all of the holes!
Along with the pictures is a mono amp that we made and have 90% soldered up, and are waiting for a shipment of parts to complete the board.
I started building a control box for the lathe and should have the funds for the stepper drives after christmas and will be able to work on it again. After the amp project I'm toying around with the idea of building my own stepper drives, but may just buy some that are ready to go. Winter is here and it's cold in the garage so I may have to find a friend or two to help bring the 300 plus pound machine on to the basement to work on it.
How is your machine going? Have you turned anything cool on it yet?
Dale P.
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You didn't build a backyard power station to power up the amp? Kids just don't know how to do stuff these days! :D
Seriously, that's some great work you're doing and passing your skills on to your nephew as well. Awesome! :beer:
Haven't turned anything much with mine yet. Still wading through optical home switches mounting, hookup and configuring. I muddled my way through hooking up an optical sensor on a slotted disc on the X-axis stepper motor with a microswitch at the end of the axis travel to enable the opto. That allows it to home to a particular point at the stepper rather than the axis itself. Should be a very accurate X home that way. Can't measure any variation at the axis at all.
Then on to tool tables & offsets. I'm dreading that hurdle.
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Ok, This weekend I built a stand for the lathe and am going to bring it into the basement tomorrow so I can start working on it again as it's too cold in the garage.
I ended up going all out and ordered two new stepper motors with 280oz of torque to replace the 150oz Z and X axis motors. I also bought three LeadShine DM856 digital stepper drives. The drives will handle 70 volts and 5.6 amps and claim to run smoother, cooler, and quieter than analog drives so hopefully the extra cost for them pays off.
What I really need now is a computer and software. I may just pick up an old Pentium 4 off Craig's list for $50.00 and run the Mach 3 demo until I can raise some more funds to purchase the software.
I should have some pictures posted by the weekend of the progress.
Dale P.
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Here is the quick stand I put together for the Lathe. It in on wheels so I can move it around as my shop is really small right now. Some day I will paint it and put some doors on it, but for now it will do just fine as a bench to hold the lathe.
Fedex left me a note saying that they tried to make a delivery today, which means my stepper drives have come!!! Looks like I will have them by tomorrow.
Dale P.
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Ahhh, forward progress with your project; great! :clap:
I'm anxious to see how those Leadshine drives work out for you. I want to get at least one drive with more grunt to go on my Z axis before too long.
Make sure & get a PC that already has a separate video card. Mach is much happier that way.
I used the trial version of Mach for quite a while and it worked fine but won't do threads until you get the license. Look around a bit before you pull the trigger as some sources have it a little cheaper. Also check into the newer v4 as it's touted to be better in lathe operations...whenever it finally comes out.
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Ok, so I'm 99% there! I just need a computer to run Mach 3 as I run a Mac in the home office. I should have a PC by Sunday and have the lathe fired up!
Wiring is all done. I built an entire control box, replaced the Z and X stepper motors, and rewired all of the limit switches. Here are some pictures of the finished control box.
The last picture shows the locking mech on the tool changer. I watched a Youtube video and see that the tool rotates past the location it needs to be and then turns backwards to lock the tool in place. Reading the instructions for Mach 3 I just learned that they don't have a provision for a tool changer, just offsets for different tools. For now I will have to turn the turret by setting up hot keys on the key board and just jog the stepper motor manually.
Let me know if you have any questions,
Dale P.
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Very nice, neat & tidy. I love neat & tidy! :beer:
Do some searching on the Mach support forum. You'll find several threads where toolchangers were set up & working well from within Mach. It requires clever programming of macros (I think that's what they're called) by folk that understand programming & such. (Not me!)
I remember seeing a couple threads where people asked about doing exactly what you're trying to do. They were given some code and were able to get their's working.
Keep up the good work!
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I will have to take a look into Macros and see what it takes to program the turret. For now it should be easy enough to jog it into position with a hot key on the keyboard.
My bother is selling me a PC for $50 and it has a full version of Mach 3 already on it! He is stopping by on Sunday so hopefully I will be able to make some movements by the end of the day.
Now I need to find a CNC mill and possibly a CNC router. I will build the mills control box separate so it can be shared with a router instead of buying parts for two control boxes.
Dale P.
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So my brother dropped off a computer on Sunday with Mach 3 already loaded, but when I went to hook it up I realized that my parallel port cord didn't have the right end on it! :hammer: After trying seven different stores I came to the conclusion that no one stocks this cord any more and had to order one on line. Hopefully the cord will come by Friday so I can finally try out the lathe.
The good news is I can plug my computer directly into the stepper drive using a serial port cord which is used to program the stepper drives via software that came with the drives. With this software I'm able to jog each axis and test them out. What I was able to find out is that the new stepper drives and motors have TOO much torque and will have to get turned down. Running just 1.5 amps through the motor made the Z axis so powerful that I wasn't able to stop it from moving no matter how hard I tried. I shouldn't ever have issues with loosing steps.
Dale P.
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... I realized that my parallel port cord didn't have the right end on it! :hammer: After trying seven different stores I came to the conclusion that no one stocks this cord any more and had to order one on line. Hopefully the cord will come by Friday so I can finally try out the lathe.
...
I feel your pain Dale. Had the same problem and had to order an adapter...
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What I was able to find out is that the new stepper drives and motors have TOO much torque and will have to get turned down.
That's a very, very wise statement Dale.
Unless you're perfect in your programming, there's some crashes coming very soon that your machine will be grateful for you turning down it's torque & speed! Lots of "Why the ^&#^#%$$# did it do that!" moments coming.
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Here is a question for you guys about programing a lathe with Mach. Do I set up the tools to be at "0" when the tip of the tool reaches the middle of the chuck or do I have to touch off the part I'm turing and then set up Mach to take off a certain amount to reach my desired size? I have played around with Mach 3 Mill quite a bit, but never used Mach 3 for the lathe so I have a lot to learn.
Dale P.
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Take a test cut, measure and set the display to that.
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Take a test cut, measure and set the display to that.
...or half of that if you're working in the radius mode.
I keep telling myself I'm going to change over to diameter mode but I won't listen.
You know what they say: It's OK to talk to yourself and even answer yourself but if you say "Huh?" to yourself you should get professional help.:loco:
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Ok I'm getting closer to making some chips, but still need to work some bugs out.
I installed a C-3 index pulse board as most of you guys have and it's reading around 3x the correct RPM. There is a single slot in my disk on the spindle and I have the pulse board wired to a spare input (A Limit) I'm using the timing input in Mach 3 and de bounce settings are at 1. No matter what I try the RPM gauge on the Mach screen is reading high.
Dale P.
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The good news is I figured out the RPM problem. There are two different belt settings on the lathe and if you put the belt in the low speed position the tach in Mach 3 is spot on with the tach on the lathe. The bad news is I think the spindle bearings need replacing as it howls a bit at full speed. The bearings seem fine when I turn it by hand, but the howling noise makes me wonder if they are OK.
So how hard do you think it will be to replace them? There are two and I'm guessing they are pressed in place? I pulled the spindle out which wasn't too hard, but I may have to make up a tool to pull the bearings, and then I worry about trying to get the new ones in place.
Dale P.
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Wow, seems odd the bearings would be bad already. Isn't that a low time machine?
I'd clean them up real good and look at them closely before committing to replace. I assume they're tapered roller bearings?
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The machine has low hours, but it sat for years not running so it wouldn't have surprised me if the bearings got moisture and went bad. I took the spindle apart and inspected everything. The bearings are sealed so I can't see them, but they both feel fine and everything looks good. When I put it back together I loaded the bearings a bit more and the noise went away.
I ran the spindle for 30 min and nothing got warm so I'm going to move on and call it good.
Hope to finish dialing in the steppers today and cut some metal!
Dale P.
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Great, that's good news! Glad to hear you're getting close. Make sure & post some video!
Actually from what I read on bearing preload, the spindle should heat up after running at high speed for a while. That's assuming the proper amount of grease was used. Too much grease= excessive heat.
My ORAC's spindle gets very warm after 5 minutes or so at 1500 rpm and then stabilizes.
I went backwards on mine. I decided I wanted spindle reversing and got off into relays & circuits that were over my head. I got it working OK but got worried about screwing up and commanding a reversal before the spindle was fully stopped which would blow up my KB speed controller instantly.
After much hand-wringing, I stole a brand-new KBCC-125R controller on ebay. It has a built-in relay module that allows switching between forward & reverse at full speed without a whimper. It has a big ol' braking resistor that puts the whoa on the motor until it stops, then the circuitry smoothly switches direction and the motor spins back up to speed....all from one SPDT switch. Should be easy-peasy to switch it from Mach via the C-11 B.O.B. which has 2 on-board relays. I'm really stoked about it since reversing the spindle will make the front & back toolholders much easier to use.
I'm in the process of re-wiring everything to suit it as I've run out of room in the enclosure and it'll have to be mounted in a seperate box on the back of the machine.
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Wow, that sounds like a really nice speed controller. Can you post the auction # as I would like to check that model out for a future CNC mill build.
What type of mount does your spindle have? If it's threaded you may have issues with using reverse as the chuck could come right off. My 9X20 lathe is threaded, but has a small lock to prevent this, but my CNC lathe doesn't have any type of lock so I didn't add a reverse for that reason.
I bumped into this auction and thought you should buy it for the tool changer and toss the rest as it's quite rusty.http://www.ebay.com/itm/281067128474?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281067128474?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649)
After I get the lathe up and running I plan to make a face plate for it and also up grade the 4" chuck to a 5" so I can hold some larger items.
Dale P.
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Note the "It needs a power supply " which roughly translated to "it doesn't work but I'm not telling you that "
4 days left and reserve not hit yet.
Interesting to see what it fetches, over here that's worth about £800 [ $1200 ] with the toolchanger
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Yeah, I had wondered what "it needs a power supply" meant too. I'm sure your right and it needs a lot more. It's a shame there is so much rust on it.
Dale P.
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Wow, that sounds like a really nice speed controller. Can you post the auction # as I would like to check that model out for a future CNC mill build.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KB-Electronics-KBCC-125R-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-/330745553010?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d01f8a072 N.I.B. just like this one except I stole mine for $65.00 + shipping. Blind hog gets an acorn one in a while. There's an online .pdf manual if you want to learn more about it.
ORAC's are based on Emco Compact 8's which have a DIN 3 bolt flanges. No reversing worries. Thanks for the link but I purposely didn't look too close. I don't need anything else to get side-tracked on until I make a few bucks in the shop!
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$65.00 is a great deal for that speed control. I changed my X2 mill to a KB (I think it's a KB 120) speed control last year and love it. I almost doubled the torque and speed verses the stock controller.
I cut my first piece tonight and all went well! Can't wait for tomorrow night as I will have some more time to play around with it.
Dale P.
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My 15 year old nephew sent over some cad drawings for some speakers that he wants to build. He drew up full plans in cad for them and needs me to make the "Top Hat" portion out of aluminum. I originally planed to make them on my 9X20 lathe, but now that the CNC is up and running I might give it a shot. The only problem is the stock is 5" in diameter and my CNC only has a 4" chuck and is missing the reversible jaws so I need to find a way to hold it. I'm thinking of making a 6" face plate to mount to the 2 1/4" - 8 tpi spindle and mount the stock to that. Should be a neat project and I will take pictures as I go along and post on a new thread.
Here are a few pictures of the print he made for the speakers. The last picture shows the top part that I need to make, and not just one, but I have to make two of them for the right and left speaker.
Dale P.
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Great speakers and CAD work; especially for a 15 yr. old. I'll bet his Dad's proud of him!
You can get a 2 1/4"-8 semi-finished adaptor plate from CDCO Tools.com for $42.00. Unless you have a stash of big metal lying around, it'd be hard to beat that.
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I was looking at some adapters on E-bay and forgot all about CDCO! Yes I will probably get one from them as the price is good and they are only a state away from me so shipping is fast.
I contacted Interteck to see how much a replacement chuck wrench would be since I don't have one and also asked about replacement inserts just to see how much they charged for them. They responded and said the chuck wrench was $116.00 and gave me a link to replacing all of the tooling and said it would cost $2035.00 for the tool holders and inserts! Can you believe that, two grand for a few tool holders and boring bars. Here is a picture of what you would get.
No thanks, I will make my own wrench and figure out what size the inserts are and order them my self.
Dale P.