MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: raynerd on November 14, 2010, 04:54:27 PM
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I was browsing the net a few weeks ago and came across an engineering puzzle, the restricted nut, reasonably impressed with that but disappointed that it was actually a cheat rather than a puzzle, I started searching for potential engineering puzzles maybe even for my dad`s Christmas present - I like to make him something if I can (he is one of the only people who appreciate time spent engineering). I came across a smart little puzzle, it was an aluminium cylinder in which you had to remove the top...obviously something was restricting it. The website I found, the bloke had just made a recent post mentioning that he had cracked the puzzle after a few weeks of trying!! I emailed him and asked if he could tell me any more about the puzzle and he replied very willing to help me out. It took a while but I eventually got the concept in my head and started to draw up plans...
EDIT: I have since found the inventor of this puzzle is William Strijbos
http://www.puzzleworld.org/puzzleworld/toc.asp?t=_des/ws001.htm&m=des/ws000.htm
So, without further a do, here is the Cylinder Puzzle!
PUZZLE: The aim is to remove the lid. The lid lifts about 1mm and can be pushed down but clearly a spring is lifting it back up. There is a hole in the bottom of the cylinder, about 6mm and ball bearings can be heard rattling around inside at various times! If the lid is depressed more ball bearings can be heard rolling. When the lid is not depressed most ball bearings appear to be trapped and can no longer be heard.
SOLUTION: ---REMOVED ---
CAD PLANS
I`m totally new to CAD so this was my best effort! If there is anything wrong or bits are drawn incorrectly, I appologise. I really enjoyed building my parts from my own neat plans!!
SORRY PLANS REMOVED.
So I started with this 50mm bar of ally I`d had for a while!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle1.jpg)
Started turning it down to 40mm for the cylinder base piece:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle2.jpg)
I`m still not getting on with parting, so once it was down to about 42mm I took it over to the saw and hacked a piece off:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle3.jpg)
Turned it down to size, faced it up, drilled and then started to bore out the centre:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle4.jpg)
Put it on an arbour and started to clean and polish it up:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle5.jpg)
Also drilled the little 6mm window hole at the bottom. This really has no use other than to show the ball bearings from time to time.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle6.jpg)
OK ! Forgot to take a picture of the internal groove as I was getting a bit frustrated. I had to make a new tool which took some time and then after all that never took a photo! I`ve also drilled the semi-circle at the top directly into the groove.
REMOVED
Idea of size:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle10.jpg)
Then suddenly thought I better think of a spring so grabbed my box of springs and found this which was a perfect 23mm diameter and fit into the bore perfectly!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle11.jpg)
Started doing the top section - drilled to support it with the centre which isn`t in for some reason in this photo:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle12.jpg)
Opened out the centre bore:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle13.jpg)
Started to cut the groove in the core of the top:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle14.jpg)
The top section, still stuck on the huge bar! So part it off? Nope, back over to my hacksaw!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle15.jpg)
Then took the top section down to size and polished it up:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle16.jpg)
REMOVED
All the pieces plus 2 of the 4 ball bearings. To be honest, it works of course with just one but 4 makes it more difficult. I`ve only been putting 2 in for now! It still takes ME a few minutes to open it.
REMOVED
Top and bottom sections - spring lifts it to this height when you do get the satisfying pop when it opens!
IMG REMOVED
Just a little shot showing the ball bearings in the bottom window:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle20.jpg)
And here it is, locked and loaded! It is quite a challange getting it loaded. You just do it all in reverse of course and make sure you can`t see any bearings in the centre core, they all should be locked into the groove. The spring also serves in locking the balls up into the groove which means you actively have to be playing with the puzzle to have any chance and of course the lid must be depressed to align the grooves and allow the balls to rotate.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle21.jpg)
Finally, I`m going to give it one more polish and then take it to the engravers. I am going to give it my dad for Christmas and so I`ll have his initials with 2010 engraved. I`ll have one engraving on the top piece side aligned with the top groove and then one engraving on the bottom piece, 180 deg from the bottom hole. So the engravings will also have a bearing on the solution which should add a nice little addition. Pictures of that when it is done.
Well hope you enjoyed it. It works really well and it would be nice to see a few more made!! Literally took me a few hours although that isn`t including the time taken for the tool to make the internal bore. I`m going to order some smaller bearings and make a baby one out of brass. I think they are a real talking point. ... and if anyone could find the time to knock up the two parts in 3D CAD I`d appreciate it, just for completeness of the entire project!
All the best.
Chris
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Very nice craynerd. That's another project for the list.
William
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Thats an interesting puzzle Chris
Thanks for showing.
Stew
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I HATE that type of puzzles, and cubes! (http://serve.mysmiley.net/mad/mad0241.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net) ....... Especially with the owner watching me struggle..... (http://serve.mysmiley.net/mad/mad0270.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
That one's a cracker Chris! :clap:
Blummin well done! :thumbup:
David D
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OK guys, well I`ve taken it into work and no-one has yet managed to open it. Infact, no-one has even got close. I`m happy with the puzzle, it is tricky.
Now I`m getting a little obsessed. I`d like to make one even more difficult. I thought about some sort of thumb screw mechanism at the top. Perhaps something like a hollow shield going up the inside and covering the escape hole. So not only do the lid and base need aligning but also the thumb screw does as well. Anyway....more on that to come!
When this is polished is there anything I can do to keep the shine and stop it from scratching? Has anyone ever lacquered aluminium? I know I did a bit of anodizing in the "how to" forum but I want to keep it polished looking.
Any suggestions?
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If nobody has managed to open it - how can you make it more difficult? :scratch:
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... huh ? No-one has managed to open my personal copy but others have opened cylinders of the same concept so the idea can surely be developed?
Any suggestions on the finish?
Chris
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Hi Chris, I would give it a high polish, and then spray it with a top quality clear coat which specifies aluminum, as some will not adhere well and start to flake off rather sooner than later. Thanks for a great idea for Christmas presents, I've got a long bar of one inch brass which should do at least a half a dozen. I wonder if it can be done with a cube? I'm going to have to think on this one :smart: :coffee: mad jack
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Chris, that is a neat puzzle :thumbup: - I think I'll annoy some accountant friends with it at some point... (beans should work instead of the balls - they can count them :doh:)
Scratches will always be a problem on any kind of polished surface IMHO, and especially so for a doodad such as this that will get handled a lot, so I'd venture a guess that for this puzzle a brushed and anodized finish might be the best.
You could make it out of stainless steel and polish that up - but even that will get scratched up with handling puzzling.
:beer:, Arnold
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Hi Madjack - look forward to seeing your puzzle cubes! :poke: :clap:
Arnold - yes I think scratches can`t be avoided. I`m too happy with it to risk ruining it by varnishing it in any way. I think I`ll make a second and then perhaps give that a go!
Anyway, MarkII has started with an additional part needed for the solution!
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Great job I love puzzles like this and now I am going to have to make one :proj: but I can only find 9.5mm BB's at the moment
Sorry a bit :offtopic: I have also toyed with making a aluminium and brass version of this http://www.pacificpuzzleworks.com/22310 but would not know how to mill a egg shape :scratch:
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Chris
Here you go.
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q3/Dave_Sohlstrom/puzzle.jpg)
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:bow: :bow: :bow:
Excellent!! I really really apreciate that, thanks a lot!!
What programme was that made in? :)
Thanks again
Chris
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The only real way to protect the surface finish on aluminium so that it doesn't look bad is to engine turn or anodise it.
With engine turning, even though it will darken, it will not show fingerprints or small scratches, and will look presentable for years. The same sort of effect can be obtained by very fine knurling.
Anodising actually puts a hard oxide coating onto the surface, it is that which gives the protection. Plus you can colour it with easily obtainable Dylon fabric dyes.
Because ali forms a new oxide layer as soon as the old one is pentrated or worn off, unless you get some etch primer on there, to anchor onto the surface, followed by paint or laquer, it is almost guaranteed to peel off.
Bogs
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Hi John
Thanks for the info. Yes I had a go at anodising last year, around this time:
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2441.0
I found my method worked ok but it did dull it down due to the oxide layer and I just really fancied keeping the mirror finish that I have now got! I guess I`ll have to live with it oxidising and my dad will have to keep it polished! I`ve run out of aluminium so the next one is brass anyway.
OK, thanks again
Chris
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Top puzzle Chris, :clap:
I made one tonight out of steel, had it knocked over in about 3 hours. Changed the size to suit 30mm stock and 5mm balls.
Works a treat, I'll drop it off the the guys in the mechanical workshop tomorrow at uni and drive them made. :)
:beer:
Phil
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Chris
I drew it using Alibre 3D CAD software. You can download a free version from WWW.alibre.com
Dave
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how about a pic of the tool and is there groves inside nice puzzle
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what a great puzzle love it :clap: :clap:
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Slowcoach - when you say - a quick render are they drawings or real things!!!!!!!! I thought you had made one but then when I saw your half red anodised one.... WTF :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
Are you kidding me... that is computer generated images??
Majorstrain - glad someone has made one and it has worked for them to! Pictures needed!
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They're computer drawings! You can tell because, in the 1st pic with the super-shiny items, there's no sign of the camera...
I must admit, though, they are extremely good renders. I am most impressed.
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Yep, all generated by computer. I just wish there was a key I could press, to convert them from the virtual world in to the real world :lol:
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab158/tamedmachine/puzzle5.jpg)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab158/tamedmachine/puzzle4.jpg)
Cheers
Rob :thumbup:
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This is brilliant and I want to make one, but, how do you drill a semi circular hole?? :doh:
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This is brilliant and I want to make one, but, how do you drill a semi circular hole?? :doh:
I transfered the piece to the mill and held it with a V block in the vice. Then I used a slot drill to do the holes.
I drilled the cap hole before parting it off so there was something substantial to grip in the V block.
Pics, when I get home later tonight.
Cheers,
Phil
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Yep - the same. Used my new V-blocks :D and just held it in the vice on my mill. I only had an end mill so I went into it at full depth (5mm) very slowly until I took out the semi-circle for the hole.
AdeV - AMAZING !!! Haha, my wife has just taken a look at the red one with my name engraved and even she was blown away!
Chris
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If you think your milling skills are up to it.
Not a puzzle, but a whatnot thingymajig.
http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/StepByStep/TwoSlider/twosllider1
The rest of the site also has some good stuff on it.
I have attached a PDF of the whole article, just so you can take it to the shop with you.
Bogs
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AdeV - AMAZING !!! Haha, my wife has just taken a look at the red one with my name engraved and even she was blown away!
I wish I could lay claim to them, but twas not me who produced them. I'm just impressed by them... I recall working with a program called Truespace some years ago (hmm, about 15 years ago, ouch) which could produce renders of similar quality.... but it would take about a day and a half to draw, and another day to render, on the sort of kit we had. And even then, it wouldn't be a "cad quality" drawing, i.e. you couldn't dimension it.
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excellent!
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Nice! Little confusing Xmas gift.... I like it :lol:
Going to have to make sense of this one :coffee:
Slowcoach, Rob... Where were your lunch breaks when I was hunting for CAD help with renderings of my little torches?
In the end I used the world famous Crap-o-Cad program (from Bogo industries Crewe Ltd) Doesn't quite look as fancy as yours (only cost about 20p/50c though) but got the message across on John Somers web site alright... Well, John-som and Wongster Both followed my scrawlings, and their torches worked too! :jaw: anyway... I digress :offtopic:
I'm going to have to give this a go Chris.... After I have it all in my head! :scratch:
Ralph.
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Slowcoach - I`m glad your going to make one. Please bear in mind that I didn`t think of this - I got the idea off the internet and a chap kindly explained how his worked. I`m not sure where it comes from or who made it - I guess it is a classic puzzle but I have to admit, I`ve never seen it before.
I have just started work on my second yesterday made of brass. This one has an addition in which the centre core of the top piece is drilled right through 6mm, through the lid. A 3rd part is made, consisting of 6mm dia top, thickness of the lid and a shoulder where it goes to the width of the main core. This piece is bored throught the main body with a hole that aligns with the hole in the core of the lid piece. A thin single notch is milled in the top so that this new core piece can be spun from the top of the lid by turning with your thumb nail in the notch.
This new piece slides inside the bore of the core of the lid piece. It will block off the hole that allows the balls to escape for release (through into the main bore) unless it is turned to align its hole with the hole of the core. The lid and core will then need aligning as usual. This new piece will also be sprung loaded separately so that is can be depressed (although that won`t actually do anything - depressing it will move the hole out of line (vertically) and block the hole even if it is aligned horizontally. Only a simple addition really but will make it harder - quite simple you`ll just have to spin this piece in line before opening as usual.
Hopefully it`ll work!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle-mk21.jpg)
OK OK - totally pointless, it is hard enough as it is, but I can`t resist trying to make it more difficult!
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Hi Chris, I just wanted to note that it probably is high time you get nice and gushy with cutting off, you have a nice lathe, and you're working with aluminum at the moment, so you've got the basics, you just have to figure out where you get off track, and correct that. A solid tool post is a necessity, a good sharp cut off tool, with proper clearance up front, a bit of top rake, supplied by a applying the blade to a grinding wheel leaving a bit of curve in the top, and taking off the corners of the tool, to prevent them from causing the tool to catch and dig in, challenging the sturdiness of your tool holding, with the edge just enough about center that it pulls down to center under cutting pressure, and you should be there. What a lot of folks do when chatter starts, is back off, when actually increasing pressure usually will stabilize the total flex of the tool, and keeping the depth of cut consistent will keep the blade from springing up, and going into chatter. I stone off my cut off tool before every use to make sure it's as sharp as possible, and with good clearance, and seldom even use my back mounted cutoff tool holder, now that I've got all the variables well understood and accounted for. Not to stick my nose in your business, but I'd like you to be a happy camper, and it's much easier as a machinist, if you can cut off things.
I found the rounding of the corners by accident, doing a round nosed cut off tool for a radiused bottom on cylinder fins, and was told by my thirty years senior machinist friend rounding the corners was probably the biggest issue for cut off tools, as they are the main reason for the tool diving into the metal with enthusiam. I now hate to take a piece out of a chuck to put it on a bandsaw or power hacksaw and now avoid it at all costs. Call me what you want, but get happy, and enjoy that lathe to its fullest, I know I dreaded cutting off for years and years. :poke: :headbang: mad jack
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Yea, it is 100% my technique. I`ve spent £45 on a RDG parting off tool and couldn`t use it. Blaming the tool I spent another £25 on a parting off tool at the recent midlands show. Same problems, chatter and literally no cutting! Tried to apply more pressure and the tool end dug in and snapped. I know, I do need to sort it out. I`ve had mixed results. Sometimes it works OK, like parting off the cylinder top and bottom on my little stuart, but other times its a no go....
....talking of the Stuart :poke: I best get back onto it!! :bang: :bang: :bang: Just one more puzzle :doh:
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You've broken the one you bought at the Midlands Exhibition? :doh:
What I do to part off is engage the power cross feed and wait for the part to drop off whilst supping my tea. :med:
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Yea, it is 100% my technique. I`ve spent £45 on a RDG parting off tool and couldn`t use it. Blaming the tool I spent another £25 on a parting off tool at the recent midlands show. Same problems, chatter and literally no cutting! Tried to apply more pressure and the tool end dug in and snapped.
Does the tool definitely have a cutting edge ground into it? I have a parting off blade here (reminds me, I must make up a toolholder for it...) which was blunt as a chopstick when I first looked at it. I ground some relief on the front & top, but then I went all QCTP & haven't touched it since...
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Yea, it is 100% my technique. I`ve spent £45 on a RDG parting off tool and couldn`t use it. Blaming the tool I spent another £25 on a parting off tool at the recent midlands show. Same problems, chatter and literally no cutting! Tried to apply more pressure and the tool end dug in and snapped. I know, I do need to sort it out. I`ve had mixed results. Sometimes it works OK, like parting off the cylinder top and bottom on my little stuart, but other times its a no go....
Chris.
Have you got too much overhang/ flexing? http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2759.0
David D
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To answer all your questions, it is a long story but all I can say is I`m not short of trying!
AdeV - I`m using tipped parting tools - although I`ve had ZERO luck with them! I have had some luck and got my best results with HSS ground on ally. I got my tipped tools to work once on the Stuart I`m building cutting cast. I certainly can`t just "pop my parting tool in and part off" - no chance! It has worked about twice and when it does work it just strips metal effortlessly!
Stilldrillin, thanks for the suggestion but sadly have tried that. Even been to the extremes with just a few mm overhang ...still doesn`t go.
Kwackers - yep, snapped the pigging tip, it just chipped on the cutting surface. £25 for I bet seriously, 20 seconds of use, if that. I can`t get in touch with the bloody people from the stand nor can I remember the name of the stand I got it off. Anyone else at the Midlands show remember the man and woman selling tooling, up near the British Horology stand?
Chris
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An update on the brass puzzle MK2 :
I posted in Sept 2009 (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1818.0) after returning from the scrap heap with this:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/brassbar.jpg)
It was a 6 foot length of 38mm square bar. I chopped it into 3 x 2' lenghts just to allow me to store it. Finally thought this project was worthy of using a slither or two so I hacked off a couple of inch from one end.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle.jpg)
Held it in the four jaw chuck and turned it round! I was expecting some hastle here which is why I`ve never really used it. With my round profiling tool it was like cutting butter:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle1.jpg)
Then drilled it with my big 15/16" drill:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle2.jpg)
Reground my internal grooving tool, :D
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle3.jpg)
And started the groove:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle5.jpg)
Then used my nice new birthday prezzy from my wife (notice the make!!) to hold in my mill while I cut the top circle.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle7.jpg)
So from a block of brass to a puzzle bottom cylinder!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasspuzzle8.jpg)
Next onto the interesting bit, my new idea for the centre shield!
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oh er, I like those v blocks, very posh! :)
Rob :thumbup:
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oh er, I like those v blocks, very posh! :)
Rob :thumbup:
They do indeed look the business.
But it seems the Japs are outsourcing too. "Made in Brazil". :bugeye:
Andy
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lol, did notice that as well!
They were purchased second hand off an old machinest who has sadly gone blind. I think he has had them a while as well although they look brand spanking new!
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Kwackers - yep, snapped the pigging tip, it just chipped on the cutting surface. £25 for I bet seriously, 20 seconds of use, if that. I can`t get in touch with the bloody people from the stand nor can I remember the name of the stand I got it off. Anyone else at the Midlands show remember the man and woman selling tooling, up near the British Horology stand?
Why do you want to contact them?
If it is to buy more tips, then really, you should know by now that when you buy new tooling, you should always buy spare tips.
If it is to complain about the tool, there is only one person at fault, and it isn't the retailer.
I see almost daily, going around various sites, people who are having trouble with parting off.
There is no such thing as a perfect parting tool that will cure all. I have quite a selection of parting tools ready mounted up, and it is a matter of selecting the best tool for the job.
Parting off and grooving can not be forced to work, it is a technique that has to be learned. No amount of upside down tooling, back toolposts, or any other gizmos are going to work with everything. If you can't part off using standard methods of setting up both your tool and machine to do the job, you will always struggle.
I honestly don't think parting off can be taught in posts like this. That is why some people have so much trouble. Even after everyone and his dog has thrown their bit into the pot, and then spending copious amount of money on gizmos, they still can't do it.
It is a matter of going right back to basics, how certain metals are machined, and how to set your machine and tooling up to ensure success.
If a person isn't capable of doing those basic things, then all they can really do is spend their money on a good hacksaw.
A machine and it's tooling is totally brain dead, it follows religiously the instructions it gets from it's master.
Bogs
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Parting off has always been a mystery to me - because I've never had any problems.
When I first started my lathe came with some appalling carbide tools, the sorts of things that in order to get anything to happen you needed extra leverage on the wheels and that invariably meant the job jumped out of the chuck or made an appalling noise followed by a poor finish and lots of smoke.
Fortunately I'd also just joined the local engineering club and in the first week guy from Greenwood tools came up to do a talk about tipped tools, the why's and wherefores. It was most informative, explained why you can't just use any old tipped tool that you happen to find lying around and why his stuff was good (obviously). His videos were most informative and I ordered a a couple of tools including his "kit-Q-cut" parting tool.
Those tools have pretty much been the backbone of my basic tooling ever since. They cut anything, last a decent amount of time and give a finish has good as anything I've ever seen.
The parting tool is mounted in a rear tool holder - not to give it rigidity because it works however I mount it, but simply so that having turned my part I can simply wind the cross slide the other way and part off.
Speed doesn't seem to matter much, you just wind in the cross slide and 'listen', you get a nice "hiss" as the metal is peeled away, come in a bit too fast and the tone changes and sounds 'aggressive', too slow and the cut becomes intermittent and noisy. I mostly part using the power feed on the cross slide. The tooling has worked on my ancient (and crap) Chinese lathe and now works just as well on my Myford 254.
One thing I've learned which may explain my "success" is a good engineer can do wonders with the shittiest of tools, but good tools flatter a poor engineer and I've learned to buy 'good' tools... :coffee:
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I had problems in the past with parting off, mainly because the old toolpost had a tendancy to tip up as the forces increased, with the result that the tool just ended up underneath the work with the cutting edge rubbing off...
No such hassles with the QCTP - although I have to make sure I've really wound the QCTP down onto the base, otherwise it has a tendancy to rotate when the cutting forces are high.
I must admit, I do currently refuse to part off steel; but only because the only parting off tool I have is quite wide (0.15" at a guess), and is HSS... I'm not sure how such a wide cutter would behave with a harder metal. It will chomp through brass & ali with no problems whatsoever.
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John - he didn`t have any at the show and asked me to ring the week after for more. I`ve rang and had no reply. As to the rest of your post - I`ll just carry on like the useless moron that I am but I`ll be happy with the hacksaw.
I don`t mean to be rude - but this is getting very very :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: I know I pick up loads and loads of useful tips on here from diverging conversations but this is getting a bit too heavy!!!
So.... cylinder puzzles.........??
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Chris,
There is no way I would class you as a moron, far from it, in certain areas and disciplines, your are light years ahead of me.
My post was about what needs to be done for anyone to conquer parting off.
That is the basic knowledge of how to cut each type of metal has to be mastered, and how and why each tool and machine behaves like it does while carrying out certain jobs.
Once those two things have been mastered, you should have no more lathe cutting problems.
John
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Bringing it back on topic....
I made a keyring sized one from 316 stainless steel
I'd show you inside, but i can't get it apart :D
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Haha ! That is brilliant!
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Why can`t you open it - have you forgot the alignment or is something catching inside? I know I had a slight burr on the top edge of my groove which was originally making my first puzzle a bit tricky. I sanded it off but actually in retrospect quite liked it - made it a bit harder to open!!
I hope you can get it open soon - please post pics when you do! I originally wrote, what size are your balls? But I think it would be better worded - what diameter ball bearings did you use for that?
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Just looking at the pics again - are the balls a little small for the groove only you have got quite a big rise on that of the lid?
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what size are your balls?
:lol:
I started to cut the grooves to suit 4mm balls then realised I didn't have enough meat in the plunger part to make them deep enough (I was just making it up as I went along), so I'm using three 3.5mm balls running in ~4.5mm long grooves, hence the gap. I don't mind the gap, being able to see the hole and notch doesn't make it any easier to get apart.
It will come part (at least it did before I fitted the spring) ....
[edit] I've just noticed those balls are Kn****d, I might have one more go at the groove to fit 4mm balls
Ah here it is:
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Nice job! :headbang: :headbang:
:ddb:
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the keyring sized one would be great fun :thumbup:
nice work by the way :clap:
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If anyone is interested in ordering bearings, I`ve ordered from these chaps three times in the last few weeks, paid for £1.50 standard delivery and ordered in the morning twice and yesterday at 3pm. Bearing have been with me next day each time and even with me today at 9am post!!
http://simplybearings.co.uk
Nothing to do with them..just happy customer!
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Another nod for Simply bearings, not the cheapest around, but very reliable.
Well, I braved the fog and opened the grooves up to fit the 4mm balls - much better :)
Can't show you pictures, just gave it to a friend for delivering one of Bogs' overhead cranes (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3836.0) from Lydl :)
Bill
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This is pretty neat Chris. With the gift giving season almost upon us, this brings possibilities. Having a time wrapping my head about it though.
Eric
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Bit of an update for anyone interested. My aluminium one has been returned from the engravers and looks great. I`m well chuffed with it and I just hope my Dad will be. As was always my original intention, the engraving forms part of the puzzle. Without it the puzzle is actually just luck and trial and error even if you know how it works. By putting the engravings in a relation to the hole and semi-circle slot, you can discover how to align them to open the puzzle. The engravings have to be 180deg apart to open the hole and allow the balls to escape.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/cylinders1.jpg)
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/cylinders2.jpg)
I`m also really really chuffed as I`ve just finished my second MK2 modified puzzle and can confirm that it makes the puzzle near impossible without some way of understanding how it opens. Infact, it is more or less a lock!! :smart:
So the base piece was done last week and I posted pictures of that earlier. Here are the rest, showing the other couple of pieces:
So I turned down another block of brass so that it fit into the bore of the base piece :
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder21.jpg)
And then started making the grooves and such like last time:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brass-cylinder22.jpg)
This time, when I started drilling for the bore, I drilled right through 6mm, but then decided it wasn`t wide enough and moved from the plans, changing it to 10mm through the lid:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder23.jpg)
Then I started making the "extra" shielding piece:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder24.jpg)
Bored it right up, about .5mm away from the top where it will reduce down to the lid diameter:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder25.jpg)
Drilled the escape hole and then cut the thumb notch in the top:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder26.jpg)
So before polishing BUT just incase I couldn`t get them apart again, thought I`d take a pic of all the bits:
REMOVED
This is how the extra thumb screw looks in the lid, the spring allows it to be depressed by about 5mm and of course turned.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder29.jpg)
And here it is:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/brasscylinder30.jpg)
I`m really chuffed with it, it is very hard to open as the inner shield has to be perfectly aligned to allow the balls through even if the other bits are in line! I must admit however, that I`ve made a small error and took the inner groove 1mm too high towards the top so this allows it to open about 1.5mm, which is a bit more than I`d like. I think it`ll take some 8mm bearings rather than the 7.5mm currently in it so for £2 I`ll order some and see if they fit (without any more modification) and if they do, it`ll reduce the gap a bit. Anyway, that is being critical, it works a treat and doesn`t lift too much that it spoils anything!
I hope you like this second edition, certainly a fun upgrade if you find anyone who can open the first puzzle! Just need to polish up the brass and it`ll be a winner.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/cylinders3.jpg)
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Great puzzle Chris. Nice work. I would like to build one but can't get to the .pdf. Could you check the link, please.
Chuck in E. TN
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Cheers Chuck, I think the pdf is back up and please post a pic if you make one!
Chris
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Got it Chris. I'm off to the shop to find material.
Chuck in E. TN
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:headbang:
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I highly recommend the second version and it only requires an extra piece and about 15 minutes more work! It is very difficult!
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Hi Chris.
Theanks for posting that - I'm going to make one for my cousin for Chrimbo, it'll drive him wild I'm sure.
Is that a 'Hexacut' hacksaw you're using there? Looks like one I had a while back that I picked up on my travels but it was quite well worn and I ended up getting frustrated with it and bashed it up for scrap :D
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Hi Pete, it is a Kennedy power hacksaw.
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3570.0
I`ve been told that the top rail can wear but believe that a good solution it to replace the steel hex bar with slightly over size brass hex bar. As I can see, the oversize hex will take up the slack generated by the wearing away of the top rail and being brass, should slow down further wear. I guess it is irrelevant now as you`ve binned it!
I`ve had mine only a few months and it gets used most visits to the shop!
Please post some pics of your puzzle when complete. I`d go with the second version, it is amazing. I gave my mother-in-law the original puzzle and she solved it within a few hours. The second puzzle took her over a few days worth of sessions to crack!
Chris
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Yep, that's what I had. It was pretty badly worn and I probably would have persevered with it if it wasn't for finding a fully working clarke bandsaw on a demo site and carting that home.
I'll post up pics of my puzzle when it's done for sure!
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Hi Chris, that's quite a work that puzzle, and I think if we were closer together I'd have to borrow some of that brass bar stock, that is a lucky find indeed :jaw: I've not quite got to start the first puzzle, and the second addition is so intriguing I'm just going to have to bypass the first and get straight on to the second one. I think in a keychain size it would be perfect for a gift, particularly for family, as they aren't allowed to curse you, at least not publicly. That is quite an easy addition, yet so much a greater challenge. I think the brass one will be the ticket, once it gets the full polish job. :headbang: :beer: mad jack
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Chris,
This is probably a stupid question, but I need the answer!
On your drawing, the elevation of the lid piece shows a dimension of 1 mm. I cant work out what it relates to? :scratch:
Ian
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Probably my poor effort of a drawing but it should relate to the fact that the hole is higher than the centre of the groove and ends about 1mm from where the lid is....
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/puzzle17.jpg)
So in that picture, the hole should be end about 1mm from the shoulder of the lid. It is irrelevant really as long as the hole is high and not in the center of the groove. Hope that helps...as I said, just my poor effort of a drawing!
Chris
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Chris,
Thanks, the mist has lifted. :beer:
Ian
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Thought I would post with part 1 of my attempt at this puzzle.
I was trying out live tooling with the lathe.
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Show off :D
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That's not a Drummond round bed is it??
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Bloody hell ..... :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
That was damn fast, :ddb: took me over 30 minutes to make that part :doh:
look forward to part 2.
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That's not a Drummond round bed is it??
Nope, it's a Hwacheon Hi-eco 35 CNC Lathe, auto toolset, live tooling, and provisions for parts catcher and sub-spindle though sadly not installed.
I know, it's cheating somewhat, but it was a good exercise for me in programming and using live tooling. It wasn't but 2 months ago I hadn't even touched a lathe, manual or cnc.
I'll use the manual lathe to do my version of the cylinder puzzle, but for now here's a rendering.
The brass pieces are also moveable while the stainless steel band is stationary. The brass bands will have to line up in order to allow the middle brass piece to be pushed down, otherwise it will just spin.
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I like it a lot! How will the mechanism for that work?
I look forward to seeing it made! It would be good to see some info on your cnc machine and live tooling if you can find the time. I don`t consider cnc as cheating - it is just maching from a different angle IMO but I`m sure others will disagree. Anyhow.. looking good and can`t wait to see more...
Chris
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Redacted
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KE5AFU...
:jaw: :jaw:
That CNC is nice. Makes that part fast! I want one of those machines...
The design of your puzzle, :bow: very nice. When you start, are you willing to do a build thread? I would love to read it.
Eric
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Ahhh, that does make sense! ... I think I have it. So basically that centre piece is actually off centre in terms of the head as your drawings show. The holes that will be in the brass rings with also be off centre so as you spin the rings, they will not allow the centre piece down until they are rotated to align the bore with the centre piece.... think that makes sense. As your spinning them and pushing it down, you`ll feel it fall through when you get each into the right position..... I like it!
....after all that, they still have to rotate the centre piece to align the hole and then align the top and bottom pieces of the cylinder and give it a bit of a shake to release the balls...ouch!
My mother in law did actually complete my Mk2 puzzle but it took her a couple of nights of doing it during TV watching for her to get it open.
I can`t wait for you to start this!! So I presume the plan is to continue with the CNC one as well?
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Redacted
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Hi Ke5afu
I`ll wait for the CAD - sounds bloody good but my tiny brain can`t see it! :bang:
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Hi Guys
As I have always said this was NOT my idea, I found it on the internet and I was contacted today by a William Strijbos with a very nice email explaining that it was his invention and he makes a living off selling puzzles. So although I believe he will lose very few sales from this puzzle being up here on madmodder, I had decided to remove any pictures that explain the solution. I understand that although I believe he will not lose sales, I do agree that it is likely that people will find the solution to the puzzle.
Consequently, I have decided to remove all photos that depict how the puzzle works.
Like I said, William was very nice and there has even been some conversation of him building my adapted second version of the puzzle of which I would of course be happy for him to do.
I hope you understand the reason for me removing the pictures and I guess it is up to you or madmodder admin if you wish to do the same with other photos.
I believe you can buy his puzzles from here: http://www.puzzleworld.org/puzzleworld/toc.asp?t=_des/ws001.htm&m=des/ws000.htm
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I received an email from the gentleman as well but thinking it was spam deleted it
cheers Graham
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Yep, I received the same sort of email from William today. To be fair to him, I have removed my rendered details of how the unit works from the thread.
Cheers Rob :thumbup:
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Bugger ! I wanted to make one of these and printed out the pdf but it'd been sitting on my desk so long it got a bit dog eared and I threw it away thinking I'd print another!
Still I understand your reasons for deleting them and fair play to you for doing so, the consideration the members have for others is one of the best things about this board
Jim
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:thumbup:
Glad you understand Jim, he makes a living I believe from selling puzzles of his own design so I have to give him credit for such a smart design and not blow the solution just for my enjoyment!