MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: Brass_Machine on May 01, 2013, 10:49:35 PM
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How does everyone keep rust away from their tools?
I have just been wiping them down with 3in1 oil or wd40. Is there a better way? Easier way?
Eric
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One thing that can help is to put an old towel in the bottom of the tool box well soaked in oil.
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Rust is usually stated by condensation in spring the air is full of moisture , condenses onto things colder than the ambient air temperature as the air warms up, called the dew point around 4 degrees Celsius , there are three things that can be done to stop this ,
remove the moisture in the air ( silica gel / dehumidifier )
heat the tools above the dew point
cover the tools with a protective layer ( paint oil or wax )
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I have a 600W dehumidifer going in the workshop 24/7... it works.. =)
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Hi Eric,
I'm fairly new to model engineering and have similar concerns after spending quite a bit over the last 18 months on tooling. I have an unheated workshop and try to keep a lot of my stuff covered, usually in the plastic bags they came in which often have a coating of oil on the inside. I've noticed some things are more susceptible than others - stock mild steel seems particularly prone and yet HSS tooling seems relatively unaffected. No doubt someone with more knowledge than me will tell us why. I put my efforts into looking after the expensive stuff. Chronos do Rust Inhibiting Paper but I've not tried it.
Gary
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A rub down with an oily rag...
My machines have a liberal coating of engine oil on their ways followed by a spray of WD40 for everything else....
Tooling that is kept in boxes, my indexer/rotab/taps and dies/etc.. etc...all receive a spray too after a wipe down withg an oily rag..
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Wot John says! :thumbup:
Oily rag/ WD40. Works for me..... :D
David D
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My first line of defense is light oil. Beware of WD-40 as it is a water displacing compound that includes shellac to make it stick to surfaces and can gum things up! Things such as squares get a wax coat -- as does bright steel stock (Treewax works quite nicely). Each of my tool chests has a box of silica gel & a rag moistened with camphor oil set somewhere out of the way. I take the silica gel "boxes" out an set them in the oven at 225°F a couple of times a year and, whilst doing that, re-moisten the rag with camphor oil.
I live in western Washington State where the (almost) joke is, We don't tan, we rust!
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Moth balls.
Mosey
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A useful tip is to have a 'fridge or freezer in the workshop. It helps two ways a/ the heat ouput helps to keep things above the dew point, and b/ the cold side condenses water - if it is self defrosting pipe it outside
...oh and c/ the likers of cold beer can use it accordingly :ddb:
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BEER! :beer:
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I have the same problem here in Australia and use a mix of motor oil which is cheap and kerosene.
I put about a third of motor oil in a cheap $1 spray bottle and then fill it with Kero and then shake it well.
I have been using this for many years and find once sprayed on, the kero evaporates and the thin oil coating stays on. When I need a tool I just give the light oil coating a wipe with a rag before use.
For longer term use and valuable gear I still place them in a plastic bag after there spray.
It's also great for spraying in collet chucks and collets before fitting, that way they are easier to tighten with no binding.
I am not sure if it's called Kerosene world wide, but we used to use this stuff in indoor Kero heaters years ago and it's blue in colour.
Dave
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Hi Eric,
I have used spray on clear lacquer on a number of items. When it eventually becomes worn, it can easily be removed using meths, and be re done.
Cheers David
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A useful tip is to have a 'fridge or freezer in the workshop. It helps two ways a/ the heat ouput helps to keep things above the dew point, and b/ the cold side condenses water
Yup got a big chest freezer for food in the garage ( which takes up valuable toy space...grrrr.) and a small fridge for da beer for when I get thirsty.....
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I reckon the best idea is move to a desert area. :D....worked for me
Pete
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I reckon the best idea is move to a desert area. :D....worked for me
Pete
Then the sand and dust gets the tools !
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yeah but I save on sandpaper and free sandblasting when the wind gets up :lol:
Pete
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I use Ballistol (http://www.ballistol.com/) (a little goes a long way) on tooling.
On machines that don't regularly see a lot of oil (eg drill press), I give them a wipe down with a 50/50 mix of hydraulic oil and mineral turps (similar to Dave's mix of oil and kerosene/paraffin).
Remember: Rust never sleeps!
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Well, I have been debating this for years. I rarely have issues with rust, but when I came in to find me recently restored Centex mill with rust scabs in several places, it got serious! :scratch:
I learned to avoid modern motor oil. It has additives in it to attract and emulsify water - not good. Non-detergent motor oil is much better. So I have been using spindle oil and way oil for the most part, but i still have to keep an eye on it.
Air circulation helps. I keep a ceiling fan running all the time. I also added window AC units which keeps humidity down. I also have a $200 dehumidifier for periods when I will be absent and humidity is high.
Lastly, recent threads on another forum indicate that lanolin is the ultimate rust preventer. I bought a pound of the pure stuff on ebay and will mix it 80/20 with mineral spirits, to be applied with a trigger spray bottle.
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Well lanolin comes from wool, and certainly my sheep don't tend to rust even in the wettest winters :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
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Lanolin huh? I will have to give that a shot.
I just moved to a different house and will be setting up shop in a garage (instead of a basement). The plus sides... not a damp and moldy basement but now a non insulated garage. I moved up to the hills, so it will be cold in the winter!
Eric
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hi just my bit don't use grees as its hidroscopik ie it absorbs water for long term and short term i use waxoil in the usa it ma be namd sumthink difrent its a pariffin wax its more comanle used on cars as a rust inhibitor and rum new tools is coted with it for shiping you can get it in the uk from most car shops it cums in spray cans or in big tins if the part has bin atacet by the tin worm in a bad way remove the rust then use one of them rustinhibitor produkts a gane most comanly fawnd in car parts shops hope this helps
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Im with krv Waxoil put it on with a tissue ( toilet paper ) , and it dries to a non sticky finish that you can hardly see or feel .
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I like the idea of waxoil - cheers krv.
I`m currently in the WD40 club - every few months I buy a large can and go crazy spraying everything and anything I see! :dremel:
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I've just obtained the worlds supply of VCI paper - good stuff to wrap small tools in to prevent rust. It comes in a 1 metre wide roll. If there is sufficient interest I'll pass it on at cost (not sure what that is at the moment) if people are prepared to send a large stamped addressed envelope - I can fold it to A4.
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Easy ... just have a Brass_Machine :lol:
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I like the idea of waxoil - cheers krv.
I`m currently in the WD40 club - every few months I buy a large can and go crazy spraying everything and anything I see! :dremel:
its much cheaper to by it by the gallon ( screwfix do it 29 quid plus vat for 5 litters but mail oder only ) others also supply it the include a small refillable spray to use it much better than the cans you can spray or squirt which ever takes your fancy
stuart
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Tools don't rust if you use them my old gaffer used to say :clap:
Normally I don't bother unless know I am not intending to use for extended periods of time. Either dump in coolant tray with water soluble oil or dunk in some motor oil I wont use ie 10w/40w.
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Tools sitting out I wipe down or spray with some type of oil. Tools in cabinats or drawers I use blocks of camphor. Smells good when you open them.
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Any spray oil would be better than WD40, and also cheaper.
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Hi. My workshop is an un-heated pre-cast concrete garage and suffers from condensation when the temperature and humidity fluctuate widely. I use trace heating cable of the self regulating type (polymeric) at 11watts per metre. A 2metre length laid in a U shape beneath my lathe and miller have stopped the condensation problem provided they have a cover over the machines. Small hand tools I wipe with an oily rag and store away from hygroscopic material i.e wood or cloth. Any wooden draws I apply two coats of good oil based varnish or cover the base with 'Formica' type material and use clean engine oil to wipe hand tools down after use. Hope this helps
Phody
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Hi Phody
Welcome to the collective :borg:
I was working on one of the cars today. Pulled two nuts and bolts on the exhaust system to replace a gasket. They were rusty as all get out. Tossed them in apple cider vinegar for a few hours... cleaned up very nice.
Eric
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I started using lanolin a few months ago. When it was hot (and humid) I just brushed it on every piece of bare metal in the shop. I wiped off the excess with a clean rag and I use that lanolin-soaked rag for touchups. I have not seen a speck of rust so far, except a couple of places that did not get lanolin. So far that seems to be the solution for me. Winter into Spring will be the real test, although it's been quite humid here.
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In my shop I use a ceiling fan running 24/7 and a dehumidifier set to keep humidity at 35% or a bit less. The humidifier runs constantly with the spring thaw for a few weeks, then only a few hours for the rest of the year. Zero rust on anything. If there isn't enough humidity in the air, you can't get rust.
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G'day all
I use this stuff called Boeshield T9. A bit pricey but a little goes a long way and you only spray it on once to preserve your tooling.
Joe
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Since the finish appearance on many of my tools is unimportant as long as function is not impaired and since my basement is indeed a damp (and cold) one, long ago I began treating steel stuff prone to rust with Jasco. A phosporic acid maganese dip for metal prep, grey in color usually. Then when the dip is dry, I oil the tool with an oily rag. So far (20 years for some of the screw drivers, taps and the ilk) so good. It destroys the bluing on firearms so keep it away from them. A WW2 memorial museum down South went under water during Hurricane Katrina. What they found out (the hard way) a few weeks later was the steel that had been lightly coated with wax (the real kind, not the spray bottle stuff) survived virtually without injury. The steel that had been oiled down rusted. I suppose that if I was going to drawer queen some bits and end mills I might dip them in melted beeswax and that should keep them safe for my great grandchildren to find and sell as estate antiques. Of course right now I don't have much in the way of spare bits needing such preservation methodology. Regarding mill and lathe beds, I am not sure. I am noticing discoloration beginning to creep onto the bed of my mill at the edges even though I always wipe it down with an oily rag. I may try Jasco on it but right now it is just a faint discoloration.
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I started using lanolin a few months ago. When it was hot (and humid) I just brushed it on every piece of bare metal in the shop. I wiped off the excess with a clean rag and I use that lanolin-soaked rag for touchups. I have not seen a speck of rust so far, except a couple of places that did not get lanolin. So far that seems to be the solution for me. Winter into Spring will be the real test, although it's been quite humid here.
That's what I've been using. I've mixed it with Isopropyl alcohol to paint onto large areas.
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WD40 is no good I use a spray called double D I get it from JTF it leaves a fine wax or grease when it dries
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WD40 is no good
It's done a very good job of protecting my machinery and tools, over the past 10 years.
While sharing the concrete garage with an, (often) wet car.......
David D
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I've had no luck with WD40 either. I sprayed it on the table of my old milling machine many years ago and when I went into the garage a week later it was covered in rust :Doh:
I have a tin of Tallow somewhere, anyone tried that?
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Since the felt blew off just before christmas my shed it damp and it' not driying out , and with the persistant rain I have damp patches on the walls , my machines I can keep oiled and rust free it's the tooling I can't see that's the problem , my chucks are on a shelf under the lathe and rusty cleaned them up today , but a 6 inch oily chuck is very easy to drop or slip , a sugeshtion was to use a dead fridge with a light bulb on the bottom for storage of tools , I will have a mesure and see what I can find .
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Jeff we do the same thing here with gun safes in damp environments. A heat source of some kind be it a small 15 watt incandescent light bulb or a heat wand sold commercially specifically for the same purpose works well and probably would work in the refrig too. The concept is the small heat source raises the inside temperature of the container above the condensation point of the moisture. A small hole in the bottom of the safe allows both the electric line to enter and also provides venting. The down side of this tactic is it also raises your monthly electric bill.
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Had to take some scrap in two weeks ago the scrap man asked how I wanter paying , with a fridge was the reply OK I will give you a call when one comes , in got one Thursday fixed a halogen light up to a thermastat and wired it in , takes about twenty minets to heat up to 15 degrees C , also got a small compressor thrown in .
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I've just started using chain wax in the last couple of months.
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I started using lanolin a few months ago. When it was hot (and humid) I just brushed it on every piece of bare metal in the shop. I wiped off the excess with a clean rag and I use that lanolin-soaked rag for touchups. I have not seen a speck of rust so far, except a couple of places that did not get lanolin. So far that seems to be the solution for me. Winter into Spring will be the real test, although it's been quite humid here.
That's what I've been using. I've mixed it with Isopropyl alcohol to paint onto large areas.
I thinned mine with mineral spirits, which was only a little better than oil & water. I'll try some alcohol. Thanks
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Lanolin huh? I will have to give that a shot.
I just moved to a different house and will be setting up shop in a garage (instead of a basement). The plus sides... not a damp and moldy basement but now a non insulated garage. I moved up to the hills, so it will be cold in the winter!
Eric
Hi Eric,I second what others have said about having a dehumidifier in the workshop.
Mine controls the humidity level down to around 50% and I haven't had any problems with condensation causing rust since installing it in the shop.
Another method I use is to heat metal objects with a heat gun or in an oven to drive all moisture out of the pores and then soak the hot object in Hammerite waxoyl(or equivalent other brand car underbody wax)
This method allows the waxoyl liquid to penetrate into the metal pores then wipe of the surplus and let the item cool down.
Also as Andrew suggests lanolin is a really good natural moisture repellant and would also be very effective if applied by the hot method I describe above....OZ.
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Some type of oil on the bigger parts and inside my tool boxes I have a block of Camphor in each drawer.
Never had a rust problem inside the tool chest.
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I guess I am the only one liking iron-phosphate?
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superc,iron phosphate products do have their uses and place but I wouldn't want to use it on my hand tools due to the change in surface appearance.
Hence my preference for using a hot penetrative waxoyl treatment.
I have tested pieces of steel treated with the waxoyl technique by placing them in the outside weather environment for months on end and they don't display any surface rusting....OZ.
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Buy blocks of champhor, slit the plastic wrapper, put in toolbox drawer. 1 or 2 blocks (2"x2"x3/8") per tool box usually works.
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Calcium chloride in a perforated container will work as a desicator. Just don't get it on your tools. Fischer Scientific sells the reusable desiccant I used when I worked in the lab. Put it in the oven, dry it out, and reuse it.
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Hi, Fine Woodworking? did a test a while back and found CRC Industrial 3-36 was the best rust inhibitor. I've used Lanotech and another lanoiln-based spray with good results.
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Ha Guys
Lanolin has been by gun smiths for a years but not for rust but lube for the lead bullets smooth flight down the barrel. The best place to find the lanolin is from RandyRat he's the man with lanolin. It was $13.00 a pound plus shipping. Here is where you can get in touch with Randy: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?137124-Randyrat-s-lube-ingredients-and-uses
Do not mention my name or he will charge you more.
Nelson Collar
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Nelson,
You want lanolin, come and get involved when we are shearing the sheep - you'll get covered in it :ddb:
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:poke: I've always found that borrowing tools avoided getting yours rusty :lol:
Pete
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:poke: I've always found that borrowing tools avoided getting yours rusty :lol:
Pete
I just found my new method. Sounds way cheaper too.
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Buy blocks of champhor, slit the plastic wrapper, put in toolbox drawer. 1 or 2 blocks (2"x2"x3/8") per tool box usually works.
Just buy a box of mothballs and place a few in you tool box they will work to keep rust away from your tools.
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I've just written up my solution to this problem for another forum.
http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11103&p=118192#p118192
HTH
Bob
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Well lanolin comes from wool, and certainly my sheep don't tend to rust even in the wettest winters :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Just as a precaution: use mothballs too. If it doesn't help on the rust issue, at least it protects the wool! ::)
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Fly Strike is the enemy at the moment. Eggs laid in the wool develop into maggots, maggots initially survive on the lanolin then head south into the flesh :bugeye: Come quite early this year, I suspect due to the mild winter.
Have to spray them all with Crovect at an enormous cost. Had three so far affected who need the Crovect massaging into the affected areas but got to them before they'd entered the flesh - quite satisfying seeing the maggots curl up their toes as you do it, but the sheep looses the wool in the affected area and looks rather bedraggled.
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Marvellous what you can learn on this forum!! :)
Bob
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Marvellous what you can learn on this forum!! :)
Bob
You must be surrounded by the wooly ones where you are in Romsey Bob surely, must be second nature to you :lol:
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Fly Strike is the enemy at the moment. Eggs laid in the wool develop into maggots, maggots initially survive on the lanolin then head south into the flesh :bugeye: Come quite early this year, I suspect due to the mild winter.
Have to spray them all with Crovect at an enormous cost. Had three so far affected who need the Crovect massaging into the affected areas but got to them before they'd entered the flesh - quite satisfying seeing the maggots curl up their toes as you do it, but the sheep looses the wool in the affected area and looks rather bedraggled.
What about if you get to the maggots too late and they are into eating the flesh, what a mess you get on the hand shears then, eh.
Then home for lunch and no matter how hard you scrub your hands, you just can't get rid of that "god awful stench" of maggot infested flesh. :Doh:
Been there and done that and don't want to do it ever again.
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Last week I opened my steel cabinet where I keep my power tools and steel stock , and found condensation drops hanging from the ceiling and my bms rusty spent over a day to clean the rust off and oil everything , found Damp Trap in poundland http://www.poundland.co.uk/scented-damp-trap , it's to soon to tell iff it's doing any good has anyone else tried them before me ?
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Fortunately I have not found maggots amongst my lanolin-slathered machine tools. What I did find yesterday was a nice Buck chuck that had missed out on the lanolin treatment - now rusty.
With all the rain and temp changes we have had lately, I have been checking everything as soon as I open the shop door, which every 2 or 3 days. It's been 2 years since I started using lanolin, and so far nothing has rusted except those items that I did not treat.
I wish I had been able to treat my poor race car, stuck in the trailer with several gallons of water. I hate to even drop the door :(
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Undercoated the car and truck with FluidFilm last fall -- it's lanolin and wool, too! Smells like mostly a fancy barbecue, wet dog, plus a little maggot blended in for good measure.
Salt on roads is a big eater of vehicles around here, as you can imagine...
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I bought a tube of Flexbar Lano-Lube about 10 years ago but it's nearly empty now, anyone know where I can get another tube as I'm having trouble finding any in the UK.
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Will this fit the bill, 100 % pure anhydrous lanolin available on ebay. There are smaller pots available from other sellers....OZ.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lanolin-Anhydrous-USP-Low-Odour-100-Pure-500g-/361073259926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5411a4b596
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Yep, that's what I'm using. Seems like I paid $16 shipped for a pound. Still got most of it.
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Here is my solution:
https://flic.kr/p/oVaYid
For 40 years my ML10 has lived in this wooden-cover, I made for it. This is heated by a 40W bulb running on 35V, from a transformer. This dissipates about 5W and is only on in cold weather.
The normal wipe over with light oil has kept this machine completely rust free.
https://flic.kr/p/nToL8S
Elsewhere I use FOOD-GRADE polythene boxes with hermetic lid seals. Inside these there is VPI paper, which only works in a confined space.
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Elsewhere I use FOOD-GRADE polythene boxes with hermetic lid seals. Inside these there is VPI paper, which only works in a confined space.
That's what I use for small stuff. My ER32 collets fit nicely in a Bacon box! Collet chuck is in a round Lock & Lock.
Most of my cutters, drill bits, taps etc are in 450ml clip & close boxes, £1.39 at Dunelm.
http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/clip-and-close-rectangular-food-container-239247
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There are many makers of these boxes:
Sistema
Lock n Lock
Addis
Whitefurze
Each maker has a different set of dimensions so you can choose something that fits.
Unfortunately they have NO IDEA how to specify dimensions and buying is "hit and miss".
I think Sistema has the best clips and go for these first. These hinge properly, others rely on a thin plastic section as a pseudo-hinge.
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My favourite has always been the "Lock & Lock" brand but although they have the biggest range by far they don't always have the size you want. As said my favourite for cutters is the Addis Clip & Close 450ml that the likes of Tesco and Sainsburys used to sell. Luckily Dunelm now sell them at an even better price.
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Nelson,
You want lanolin, come and get involved when we are shearing the sheep - you'll get covered in it :ddb:
This is :offtopic: but I just had to bring this
to Andrew's attention! :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
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Thanks for that Pete - don't need a drone here - they hear me and start charging, you have to be careful not to be trodden under foot. Putting a bucket of feed into the trough is a risky business if a heavily pregnant Ewe decides to come in as a 'second row forward' between your legs.
we have JUST started lambing - 1st Ewe gave birth at 15:30 to a sturdy Ram Lamb and to his somewhat smaller brother nearly and hour later. The Ewe is a Dorset Down and the Ram was a Hampshire Down.
.... so the fun begins ...... NOT ! We had them all scanned this year so we know we have another 34 to go :scratch:
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Lock & Lock is out of business! Gone from the stores and off of television. They were great.
Mosey
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We've still got them over here luckily.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/brands/lock-and-lock