MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: raynerd on May 05, 2012, 03:53:16 AM
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After finishing my CNC machine, I`d quite like to have a go at a 3D printer as the concept amazes me.
I received my parts a few days back, really chuffed with them...
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/pursa11.JPG)
M8 threaded rod and 100 nuts and washers, along with a mix of other fasteners came to about £12
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa12.JPG)
Started on the triangular sides:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa13.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa14.JPG)
Next step is to connect the sides together.
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Looks interesting from reading the reprap wiki, need to finish my seig x3 cnc conversion before I start on more shiny toys :Doh: .
Few questions I noticed several extruder design, which looked over complicated and a bit cobbled. could you use a mini glue gun element/soldering iron element for melting the plastic wire?
The feed grip looked to be a weak point, could a mig welder pulley and tensioner feed be adapted with a stepper. Much harder wearing?
Just ideas.
Wher did you get your kit from? :ddb:
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looking good already craynerd.
Pete3000
Most Glue guns work on 240 volts. Just no thanks !
I tried a weller soldering iron heater based hot end. The thermal Junction was to big to hold the temperature where it's needed.
Hot End / Nozzle design is a black art at the best of timee.
The Wade and Gregs Extruder designs work fine.
The hobbed bolt does have to be well made, and believe me it's not easy.
Alex.
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Looking good :thumbup:
I have a Printrbot 3d printer coming soon :ddb:
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Hi guys, sorry, missed these replies! Thanks for looking and commenting
Pete3000 - ParCan printed the parts :beer:
Ok, so I have been busy with work but spent a little more time yesterday on the Prusa:
So got all the cross members on to link the two sides together and then jigged it out. Now I must admit, I spent about 1 1/2 hours getting it square as it kept twisting!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa21.JPG)
8mm linear bearings clipped into printed bearing holders
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa22.JPG)
Then mounted the ply bottom table onto the silver steel using the bearings.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa23.JPG)
At this point I realised I`d mounted the bars on the wrong side of the frame. On the Prusa2 the clips should hold the bars at the top of the threaded rod and not hanging as it is in the photo.
So I`m now running an evening behind as I`ve now flipped the bars around and mounted the motor and timing pulleys... update tomorrow!
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Chris are you running the bearings on silver steel ?
I had trouble with my first cnc using bearings on silver steel as the bearing balls are harder than the shaft and it scored the shaft rather than running smoothy.
I now have lots of silver steel now as I had to buy hardened and ground shaft :palm:
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Jason, I didn`t think about that...just presumed silver steel would be better than mild steel. I`m guessing I`ll have to change it to hardened rod at some point.... ohh dear, more ££££!!
Ok, we`ll in the little bits of time I pinch in the workshop, I`ve made more progress.
I`ve put the 6mm ply table on 225x225mm with the belt and motor in place for the Y motion:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa31.JPG)
I`ve gone for a double bearing rather than using the printed bearing holders... tough one as lots in the IRC said there bearing guides worked fine but a few said this method is better:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa32.JPG)
Bearings in position and belt grips shown:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa33.JPG)
The the x axis built and clipped into place:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa34.JPG)
Carriage running on linear bearings on the X axis
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa35.JPG)
Lead screws for the z axis along with nuts and springs:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa36.JPG)
Turned down some little couplings for my lead screws as the printed ones wouldn`t hold. They are M8 one end and grub screw 5mm bore the other:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa37.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa38.JPG)
and currently as it stands:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa39.JPG)
Next job is to add the belt to the carriage and mount the motor and then I think I`ll be looking at assembling the extruder!
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The printed couplings are normally designed to have a piece of 5mm bore PVC tubing slipped onto the motor shaft before assembling. It is intended to allow a bit of flexibility to take up mis-alignments between the motor, leadscrew and the Z axis nut.
Chris
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The printed couplings are normally designed to have a piece of 5mm bore PVC tubing slipped onto the motor shaft before assembling
Yes, I believe so but unfortunately I didn`t see this in any of the assembly tutorial videos or guides. A little tube would have been useful to counter some misalignment but I`ll see how these solid ones work. I must admit, they both turn just fine but one does look at a slight angle. However, since the x axis idler is fixed in its position of the flat bar in relation to the lead screw, I don`t see how there is anything that can be done about it! I`ll have to see how it runs with the motors attached.
Chris
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Yes the quality of the build info is a little variable! I'm not sure how useful the PVC tube actually is. My Prusa has it fitted, but I'm building a second system at the moment and I'm trying a printed coupler without PVC tube. It will be interesting to see how the rigid couplers compare to the more flexible ones. In theory you do need some compliance here to protect the motor bearings, but the whole frame is so flexible that I doubt it actually makes a huge difference.
Your build is looking good. What electronics are you planning to use?
Chris
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I`ve just purchased RAMPS 1.4 and I`m going to use an ATX supply for power....however, I`m not sure if an ATX will cope with both the motor current and that pulled by the heated bed as well! I believe my ATX is rated 24A on the 12V line but I`m not sure....think I might run the heatbed on a second ATX or purchase a dedicated unit. Just seems a shame with the ATX available.
I`ve got a little issue at present with the misalignment of the x axis belt over from the motor end, over the carriage and to the bearing on the idler end. It seems to be no where near in line with the belt clamps!!
Chris
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12 Volts 24 Amps should be just about ok. Hot end resistor is normally 6.8 Ohms = 1.7Amps. The motor current draw is unlikely to be greater than 8 amps, but best to measure it. So that leaves 14 Amps for the hot bed. I assume you are using one of the PCB hot beds, the guy I bought mine from says they have a resistance when cold of 1 ohm (resistance increases as it heats up of course), but I have seen reports of resistances around 0.8 ohms. A 1 ohm bed will draw a maximum of 11 amps, but a 0.8 ohm bed will draw 15 amps.
Chinese 12Volt 30amp power supplies sell on ebay for just over £20.
I initially used a Gen 6 board, which is not ideal: it is acoustically very noisy, has a design fault with the thermistor input circuit and doesn't support a hot bed. I'm in the process of building a Sanguinololu; I'd be interested to hear how you find the Ramps 1.4 shield.
Chris
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Oops hit Post too soon!
Sorry to hear you're having problems with the X belt alignment. There are a lot of variations to the designs of the X carriage and the motor and idler ends. In the end you sometimes just have to come up with a compromise... once you get it running you can re-print a better part! One problem I found was with the X idler. The design shows a 8mm bearing with two fixed penny washers. The belt running on these fixed washers caused too much friction on my system and caused missed steps (worked ok on the Y axis though). I turned up an aluminium pulley which I glued onto the bearing using loctite. The flanges now rotate with the pulley, it does mean that the diameter of the idler is too large, so the belt runs up hill on one side. I'll replace it with a smaller pulley in due course. There are designs for printed parts to fit onto the bearing to achieve the same result.
Chris
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Hi
Your build is coming on really well. I like your Z Couplings. They are very similar to what I have.
See how you get on with them.
The X Belt can be a real pain.
See if you can find a couple or 3 washers that fit inside the penny washer either side, thus allowing the penny washer to rotate.
I have run with LM6UU's on my Huxley on silver steel with no ill effects. I'd see how you get on. Just give them 1 or 2 drops of thin oil every 10 or so hours to keep it all free and nice.
24 Amps is enough for a Heat Bed and the machine.
You may need to put a load on the 5V rail to keep tthe 12 V up.
My advice for the heated bed is also to run it through a relay or somethign to keep all that current away from your RAMPS.
It's all looking rather good I have to say :)
Alex.
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A good source for guide rods is on old Xerox machines or printers.
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I`ve come quite a way with this build and have managed to do some prints:
Here is the extruder built up:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa51.JPG)
the extruder has some gearing which ultimately turns a hobbed bolt which grips the filament and forces it down through the nozzle:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa52.JPG)
All the electronics are wired up. I`m using RAMPS 1.4 with polulu drivers. The wiring is a mess and is the next step - getting it all tidy!!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa53.JPG)
So I didn`t do any calibrating and managed to get the motors moving. I didn`t realise that pronterface software had an extrude button and so I printed a test cube which didn`t turn out great but I was chuffed to bits!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa54.JPG)
...so what do you print when you`ve just built a 3D printer.... ?
A Ring Mustache of course!!!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa55.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa56.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa57.JPG)
My daughter likes the mustache!!!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa58.JPG)
So then onto something a little more tricky! Which first required me to calibrate the system. It wasn`t far off which is why it allowed me to get something half decent in the mustache and the square.
I decided to give this a go: It isn`t anything functional but it has a massive overhang and imagined it would be pretty tricky!
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:15364
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa63.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa62.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/prusa61.JPG)
Video coming shortly...
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Cray
nice build i am watching closely. Sweet daughter its nice to include your family with the hobbies more people should do it.
Anthony.
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Hi Chris
You have got your printer together really nicely.
A bit of fine tuning and you'll start to get some really nice prints from it.
My Thoughts are:
Nozzle temp may be a tad high - maybe 5 degrees. That should help with the Strings and Blobs.
1st layer Z Height is definately to low for the Cube. Set the nozzle 2 A4 paper thickneses above the bed.
Maybe a touch more retract.
I saw the scrape mark in the Blue tape - we have all done that ;)
Congrats on a really nice build.
Alex.
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OK, I`ll bring the temp down and raise the z axis.
I have a problem! - I noticed this evening that on the, what should be verticals, they are sloping back slightly and not perfectly square to the table!!!!
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Your build is coming on really well, your first print is much better than the first print I did when I built my Prusa! As Alex has said, the initial Z height is quite critical, it is also crucial that you get the print table parallel to the plane of the X Y movement. Which slicer are you using with Pronterface? I moved to Slic3R from Skeinforge a few months ago, and have found it a great deal better. Which ever one you are using I would suggest you set the Z home position as Alex has suggested, and then use the Slicer software to tweek the Z offset. In the case of Slic3R there is a Z offset parameter under the "Printer and Filament" tab, in Skeinforge it is in the "Bottom" tab. You need to be able to set the Z height to an accuracy of perhaps 0.1mm or better.
Chris
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One other thing I meant to mention; a small fan directed at the printing table makes a huge difference to the print quality. Ideally it should be directed at the point where the printing is taking place. The idea is to quickly cool the molten plastic before it starts to slump. It is particularly important for small features. The best results can be obtained with a fan which can be turned on and off during the printing, but even a fixed fan makes a big difference. You don't need very much air flow; obviously too much will cause cooling of the hot end.
Chris
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Hello one and all.
Chris, I`ve set the height OK and my prints are sticking but I think my z axis is not vertical to the table but slanting back and to the right. Here is my bad attempt at yoda:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/yoda1.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/yoda2.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/yoda3.JPG)
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Hi Chris,
Your Yoda isn't too bad, it always takes a while to get things calibrated. Setting everything square is a bit time consuming, but one advantage of the Prusa is that you have plenty of degrees of freedom. I normally start by choosing one of the Y axis bearing rails as a datum and then setting the second Y axis rail parallel and the X axis perpendicular to it. You can then use a large square to set the Z axis perpendicular to the plane of the top of the two Y axis bearing rods.... it is more difficult to describe it than to do it, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I apologise if I'm stating the obvious.
The shield print on your Yoda shows that the table isn't level, you can see it is much thinner at the bottom of the photo than at the top. The Z height and table level are about more than just getting the print to stick, if you are too low you will notice that the first few layers tend to bulge out a bit. If you aren't already using it I would strongly recommend that you use Slic3r (www.slic3r.org) as a slicer, it is much easier to use and understand than skeinforge (it is also slices very much faster than skeinforge). Boring calibration cubes are the best way to make progress with print quality.
I saw on another thread that you have just got your hands on a Raspberry Pi, so I expect the Prusa is taking a bit of a back seat at the moment. I'm following your experiences with the Raspberry Pi with interest.
I've got my Prusa Air working, I'll post some photos when I get a few spare minutes.
Chris
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I just found this thread, I'm fascinated with the concept and will be following with interest. Whether I'll ever build one myself is doubtful but I find it all so interesting watching the build progress. :drool:
Good work and keep the pics coming.
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Hi, thanks for the posts guys.
The prusa has been a little ignored over the last few days but I have had a good few hours with it last night.
Despite my best efforts at machining a coupling, I found the thread was unscrewing while the motor was moving. I could have tapped the coupling for a grub screw on the threaded end but I decided to give the plastic couplings a try and they seem much better. I think consequently my z wasn`t moving.
I`ve also been using M92 g code to set the e-steps on the fly and observing the differences - this has been better.
Got some pretty good prints of bearing holders last night.
I`ll post more pics and progress soon. Once again, thanks for the interest.
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Cracked it...finally!
If anyone makes one, learn to tune the E step on the fly with M92 E .... with G-code!!!!!!! Two night work sorted in 5 minutes.
Also, I`d got a wierd copy of Marlin. I`ve moved over to Sprinter now.
Z axis was out by a mile... now it is square my prints look v good!
Here is a case for my new Raspberry Pi!!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/picase1.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/picase2.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/picase3.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/picase4.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/picase5.JPG)
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Nice one, Chris; raspberry on the front and sort of raspberry coloured, too :clap:
I'm often stuck for a box to house some electronic project; being able to make your own custom ones must be a real boon.
Andy
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Grand job Chris, might get you to make one for me if your board :)
PS
Answer that mail will you?
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Cracked it...finally!
Hi Chris,
Super job! :thumbup:
Is the rest of your post in some sort of Cypher?
"tune the E step on the fly with M92 E"
"I`d got a wierd copy of Marlin. I`ve moved over to Sprinter now"
:scratch:
:beer:
Phil.
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Looking good Chris. I've found Marlin firmware to be ok, I haven't used Sprinter for a while, perhaps I should check it out again. Chris
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Cheers guys, it has turned out pretty well.
Phil, as you can imagine, you have to calibrate all your axis, so when you tell it to move 100mm it actually moves such! That is easy with the x,y and z because you physically measure the distance moved but with the E axis (the extruder), it is very tricky to measure the amount of filament being pulled through and other factors such as the size of the extruder can effect it....it isn`t an exact science. Lots of the guides tell you to simply extrude 30mm and measure if 30mm has actually come out and adjust from there. However, I just couldn`t get it right. Then someone told me to print a solid layer and enter the g-code M92 E720, this sets the E step value to whatever you like, on the fly - in this case, 720. When your doing a solid layer, you can then check the layer is solid and adjust the E value until it is solid, 100%. That being said, best way is to get it to 95% and then take it up to 100% so that you know your not above (anything over 100% would also look solid!!)
Chris
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Grand job Chris, might get you to make one for me if your bored :)
Chris, looks pretty neat, custom made enclosure for your Pi....Are you taking orders for plastic extruded cases? :D ( only kiddin' )
Seriously, that's some great kit you've built...( where's the jealousy icon? ) well done... :bow:
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Phil, as you can imagine, you have to calibrate all your axis, so when you tell it to move 100mm it actually moves such! That is easy with the x,y and z because you physically measure the distance moved but with the E axis (the extruder), it is very tricky to measure the amount of filament being pulled through and other factors such as the size of the extruder can effect it....it isn`t an exact science. Lots of the guides tell you to simply extrude 30mm and measure if 30mm has actually come out and adjust from there. However, I just couldn`t get it right. Then someone told me to print a solid layer and enter the g-code M92 E720, this sets the E step value to whatever you like, on the fly - in this case, 720. When your doing a solid layer, you can then check the layer is solid and adjust the E value until it is solid, 100%. That being said, best way is to get it to 95% and then take it up to 100% so that you know your not above (anything over 100% would also look solid!!)
Chris
Thanks Chris. Now I understand :thumbup:
I guess that Marlin & Sprinter are firmware versions.
The Raspberry case looks superb. :drool:
How much did you spend building it?
If only they could print in metal.............
:beer:
Phil.
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"Incredible" is a word that is driving me mad when used by politicians, movie reviewers and far too often.
However, your Raspberry Pi cover is truly incredible. Produced as it was by a machine that didn't even exist a month ago.
Even Yoda a part found to play, misshapen troll he was. Proud of yourself you should be, young Jedi! The force is with you.
Ray
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:lol: cheers Ray
John - yea, think I could go into selling them.
Phil - I`ve been so impressed, that I`m making one for school. In terms of cost:
£80 for a Prusa 2 parts set inc. hobbed bolt for extruder (unless you can find a machine to print at cost, in which case £20)
£13 for M8 threaded rods, 110 M8 nuts, 100 washers ... and a few bags of other assorted fixings.
£22 for 6 lengths of 8mm Silver steel
£40 for a nozzle (but anyone on here could machine one)
£20 worth of linear LM8UU and skate bearings
The rest is in the electronics
£55 5x stepper motors (nema 17)
£50 RAMPs 1.4
£40 Arduino Mega
£40 for 4 Polulu Stepper Drivers
Then there are a few extras/mods:
heated bed - £15/20
Metal T2.5 timing gears and belt - £25
:( Please.... if you add all that up, just don`t post the answer and certainly don`t tell my wife :whip:
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Chris,
A bargain!
I have added it up - what's it worth not to tell Mrs. Chris?
I'm sure the kids at school will have fun with it.
I'll have to see what parts I've got which might be useable - but I don't think my wife would be too impressed if I spent the time and money on a RepRap before I've built her a garden arbor, had the hall, stairs and landing plastered, fitted a new bathroom and a new kitchen - then there's the new carpets (oh - and she wants a new car!!) etc. etc. :(
:beer:
Phil.
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Phil... that is some list!!!
Here are some more pics from yesterday... once again I`m a bit behind.
The plastic PLA filament that I ordered didn`t come on a reel. I didn`t think this would be such an issue but actually it is really important that the extruder can just nice and gently pull filament off the real when it needs it. Consequently, you need some sort of dispencer. If you get a real with your filament, there are quite a few designs with bearings that just allow the reel to unwind but I needed a reel as well.
Here is the prusa buildings itself a filament dispencer and reel!!
Confidence has grown and so I`m now printing fuller plates. This does mean more that can go wrong if it does fail but of course less time and messing around changing prints.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/spool1.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/spool2.JPG)
All parts printed and assembly started. Used just over a meter of M8 rod as well:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/spool4.JPG)
I also wanted a way to mount the reel. My workshop has joists exposed above head and so I made these two little clamps. Sadly I`ve no pictures of them in use but the part with all the holes gets screwed to the joist. M8 rod going downwards (clearance from the ceiling), nut is included in the design. The only little brackets then allow you to mount an 8mm bar horizontal which the reel then sits on. It works well..
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/spool3.JPG)
The reel assembled and on the floor. You can see it freely rotates on skate bearings.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/spool5.JPG)
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/spool1.JPG)
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Here is a better Yoda:
Chris
edit: Fixed YouTube link. Don
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Your reel looks nice Chris..
Yoda has come on a long way as well......
My machine is back together but i have not resolved the issues.
What I do now know is it's not mechanical.
I can only guess that i'm simply over extruding.....
Alex.
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Seems strange that Alex... what happens when you play with the e-step value as it prints?
Chris
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Just to re-coup a little money on the cost of building the machine, I`m currently mid way through my Prusa Parts print...I`ll be hopefully selling it soon. If anyone wants a parts set to build a RepRap let me know - I honestly believe my prints are very good now.
Chris
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Hi chris
Problem found.
I was over extruding and the nozzle was off square to the bed.
I set Sprinter up to print the cogs for the 1st parts set I made you.
Forgot to set it back.
doh !
The issue with the sides was the filament oozing over the edge because it had nowhere to go. Add in the angle the nozzle was at and it made a real mess of the finnish.
Prints are now as good as they should be, even with 3 shells.
Alex.
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Nice one Alex. I must admit, I had a little issue with under extruding over the last few nights. The chaps on the IRC channel were insistant that it was filament slipping but I knew it wasn`t. I installed a fresh copy of Marlin, the pre-config one for Prusa running 1/16th step Ramps 1.4 and it now runs fine again...so not sure what happened there. I have recalibrated the axis and I`m back up and running again now.
I really like the Prusa and the prints come off it just perfectly. However, I wonder for rigidity and stability if the mendelmax is perhaps a better machine. I don`t believe the prints are any better but I do think perhaps it is a little more solid looking and reliable.
Anyway, glad you are back up and running. I`ll send you a link to where you can see us using the parts shortly as we are doing a school blog of the entire project.
Chris
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:proj: :ddb:
ok I've bit. been reading this thread with interest.nearly finished my worden grinder and needed a new project. After seeing quality of parts chris and others are getting out of these I've gotta give it a go. Got the basic hardware components and a printset ordered to make a start.
Matt
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Nice one Matt - what reprap have you gone for?
Also, give me a message if you need any plastic parts printing....
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Chris i have to say i am very impressed with the quality of the parts so far. will you be reprinting your own at all which look less superior to yours?
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Hi Swarfing, I`m currently trying to sell a couple of parts sets for the prusa to get back the costs I`ve laid out in building it. The quality of the set I`ve printed is pretty good and in silver (which looks grey), has come out well. The issue with printing a parts set is the time as there is about 16 hours or more print time!!
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Nice one Matt - what reprap have you gone for?
Also, give me a message if you need any plastic parts printing....
doing a prusa 2. think im going to go with ramps 1.4 for the electronics.
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Yes, Ramps 1.4 sounds a safe bet and what I went for. Others are cheaper but the support and seemingly reliability of the ramps out weights.
Chris
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good stuff your printer is producing I looked at these ages ago but didnt think them capable of such work.
although the filaments are expensive from what I have seen what we need is a machine to extrude filaments from old plastic bottles etc. even better just make something to chew them into tiny grain and feed that from a little hopper.
come on modders we can make the reprap cheaper to run if we put our minds to it :coffee:
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sounds like a challenge! :dremel: :dremel: :dremel:
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good stuff your printer is producing I looked at these ages ago but didnt think them capable of such work.
although the filaments are expensive from what I have seen what we need is a machine to extrude filaments from old plastic bottles etc. even better just make something to chew them into tiny grain and feed that from a little hopper.
come on modders we can make the reprap cheaper to run if we put our minds to it :coffee:
Problem I would forsee is that any such intrinsically non-homogenous material wouldn't have one melting point, would have variable adhesion/cohesion, would have different viscosities, and would extrude at different rates (and I hate to think what might happen if there was a Gold Top foil label left in there :zap: )
Only way this might be a go'er is if you either made a lot of components yourself you had to scrap, or you bought material of guaranteed quality (off-topic : Ade - have you managed to get the wicks out of all that 100kg of candles you bought yet? :coffee: ).
Nevertheless - here's a start - the Schred (http://www.crclarke.co.uk/products/recycle.html) which can get as far as making sheet material. Now I also seem to recall someone on. I think, the Model Engineer site, who was building a replica of the aluminium extruding plant he had previous worked at .....
Dave
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what about something like http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/Plastics-Extruder-suits-product-development-applications-21881
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Chris
couple of questions. Did you manage to find a set of build instructions specific to prusa iteration 2?. Every set I can find show two plates for y axis whereas iteration 2 and yours only use upper plate and mount belts to lower side of it. Also what thickness did you use for this plate? I'm thinking 9mm MDF but maybe 12mm would be better?.
Cheers
Matt
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(off-topic : Ade - have you managed to get the wicks out of all that 100kg of candles you bought yet? :coffee: ).
LOL - No wicks Dave, I don't know what the wax actually comes out of (or why there's quite as much available as there is), but there's no wicks in it :ddb:
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Hi Matt
No, it is a PITA!!! There are no clear instructions for the iteration 2 and the thing is, there are so many different parts that the instructions would change so frequently! The thing is, that when you look at the i2 Prusa, it says a positive as better documentation!!!
Unfortunately, I too struggled like hell to make sense of all the parts I had whilest looking at the manuals for the original Prusa. I`m very confident that I`ve put mine together as I should have so best thing you can do, is download: http://garyhodgson.com/reprap/2011/03/prusa-mendel-visual-instructions/
...and use the photos on here and the web to see the slight changes. Notice things like the threaded rod for the cross braces under the bed are held at the TOP of the bar clamps rather than dangling from the bottom... small little things like that!!
The biggest changes are the bed. I presume you`ll be going for a heatbed right (at only £13 extra, you would be crazy not to as it is a PITA without, and instead using blue masking tape and trying to rip your parts off!), basically you just mount the heatbed pcb on 4 screws on the ply or MDF bed.
Regarding material. I used 6mm ply and it has warped due to the heat of the heatbed. However, if you use thicker, your increasing the weight. These things move at quite a fast rate (and still take ages to print!!) and the bed has to be pretty light or it`ll struggle. I`ve seen someone try 3mm aluminium sheet and quickly changed it because it was too heavy. People seem to be having luck with some sort of perspex... I`ve forgot the name, it isn`t very expensive but it looks nice, is fairly light, rigid and doesn`t warp with the temp of the heatbed (60-100 deg C about 6-10mm above the bed) . I`ll try and find you the name of that material as I`m going to pull my machine apart in the next weeks and make a few changes - replacing the ply for this will be one of them.
Good luck with it.
Chris
couple of questions. Did you manage to find a set of build instructions specific to prusa iteration 2?. Every set I can find show two plates for y axis whereas iteration 2 and yours only use upper plate and mount belts to lower side of it. Also what thickness did you use for this plate? I'm thinking 9mm MDF but maybe 12mm would be better?.
Cheers
Matt
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was it Lexan they are using for the bed, can you still get Paxolin in thick sheets ? or how about stick on reflective foilon top of the ply as used in engine bays then put the heat pad on? the tape can be got in wide rolls and can be polished down flat. or how about carbon fiber sheet I use to buy it in bigish sheets for model car chassies that was very flat and should take that kind of heat.
Peter
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Hi Chris,
Just found this - not normally my cup of tea, have always been intrigued how they work but strangely never bothered looking before ... it's amazing, as is the quality of the parts you're getting off - can't quite believe it!! I guess they're actually quite strong due to the way they're layered up? I haven't read all of the text yet so apologies if it's all explained but how do you programme it? Some sort of 3D CAD format?
Well done, you must be well chuffed with it!
Nick
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ron thompson
http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/Prusa_Mendel1/
has built his own filament extruder...
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Peter, Lexan, that is the one! I like the idea of the idea of the carbon fibre sheet - is it pretty lightish (to be honest, lexan is fairly heavy!)? I expect it would be expensive, I`ll have to google it tonight and look for some when I get home... yes, I like that idea of carbon fibre.
NickG - process is a little complex to get your head around at first. The printer uses a Arduino Mega as the processsor and then uses a firmware which is all free, either called Sprinter or Marlin. This is simply just an Arduino code that you programme to the Arduino over USB (all very easy). You then download a free piece of software called Pronterface/Printrun. This software communicated with the Arduino through the firmware and tells it how and what to run.
Arduino Mega --> loaded with Sprinter/Marlin --> Pronterfaces connects to Arduino through Sprinter/Marlin firmware
To actually make something, you need to create a 3D object in any CAD package like Solidworks OR the FREE Google Sketchup. Save/export the file as a STL. A 3D printer simply prints a layer at a time and keeps moving up and prints another layer. So you then have to slice the STL file/object into layers so it can print each layer and generate the G code. A FREE piece of software called Slic3r (slic3r.org) slices your object and outputs the G-code which you then load into pronterface.
CAD Package e.g Sketchup create object --> export as STL -->slice STL using slic3r --> generates gcode --> load into pronterface.
All dead simple once you get your head around the process and free!!
Regarding the strength of the models - I was supprised how strong the plastic is as just a 30% infill. Make something at 70-100% infill and it is really tough!
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Cheers Chris, very clever stuff ... even my wife was impressed :bugeye:, will be showing Yoda to the boys later!
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Hi Matt
No, it is a PITA!!! There are no clear instructions for the iteration 2 and the thing is, there are so many different parts that the instructions would change so frequently! The thing is, that when you look at the i2 Prusa, it says a positive as better documentation!!!
http://reprap.org/wiki/ABSPrusa (http://reprap.org/wiki/ABSPrusa)
Chris
After a bit of digging found this set of build instructions. not perfect but at least they show single lower plate details. Cant do much now til parts start arriving.
Matt
Edit: Fixed link. Don
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Aaaarrrg, hooked me too..... :proj:
Where I'm at so far....
(http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af62/jgroom/P1010001.jpg)
Waiting on delivery of drill rod, motors, and electronics. Then the fun begins. :dremel:
Cheers
Jeff
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Haha, looking like this thread is hooking a few of you in!!
If anyone wants parts sets, please let me know...
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Lexan, that is the one! I like the idea of the idea of the carbon fibre sheet - is it pretty lightish (to be honest, lexan is fairly heavy!)?
Lexan is polycarbonate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate). If "generic" polycarbonate is ok, then it should be quite easily available.
Nothing wrong with carbon fiber either. Anything made from carbon fiber is cool and adding a carbon fiber part to anything makes it cool :drool:.
Cheers,
Jari
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Nothing wrong with carbon fiber either. Anything made from carbon fiber is cool and adding a carbon fiber part to anything makes it cool
Jari
Yea, I don`t have a clue of the properties but it certainly sounds cool!!
Chris
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Carbon fibre, when used with proper resins and baked in an autoclave (aka: oven) makes very strong yet very light parts. You can't extrude carbon fibre because it doesn't melt. You might be able to extrude plastic onto a carbon fibre mat, but unless it soaks through, bonding the plastic into the mat, I can't see the point. Normally, carbon fibre is laid in the same way as fibreglass (or glass fibre mat, as it ought to be called).
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Carbon fibre, when used with proper resins and baked in an autoclave (aka: oven) makes very strong yet very light parts. You can't extrude carbon fibre because it doesn't melt. You might be able to extrude plastic onto a carbon fibre mat, but unless it soaks through, bonding the plastic into the mat, I can't see the point. Normally, carbon fibre is laid in the same way as fibreglass (or glass fibre mat, as it ought to be called).
Ade, not sure what you mean :scratch: I don`t think anyone is talking about extruding carbon fibre!! We are talking about using carbon fibre for the base plate under the heatbed so that it doesn`t bend or warp. I`m currently using 6mm ply and it has bent like hell so it need changing. Peter suggested Carbon fibre or lexan.
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:Doh: :doh:
Sorry, brain-fart time....
C/F would need to be properly shaped to be rigid; but it should be dead light & would take the temperature easily without warping.
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Looking good Chris :drool:
I finally got my 3d printer a printrbot+
One of my printed pulleys has failed along with a extruder gear and it looks like the heated bed has blown a trace burning off the solder mask.
I have had it two weeks and not managed to print anything yet :bang:
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Jason, oh dear, seems like you are having a tought time with it! I must admit they are pretty tempremental and mine has taken a lot of tuning to get it fairly reliable. Let us know when you get printing!!
Chris
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Jason, I thought you were building one from a kit ?
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Hopefully they will replace the failed parts , I have emailed them.
It was a kit John different to Chris's here is a picture ( not mine, mine is in pieces :hammer: )
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/IMG_1089.jpg)
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Realised after I had sent the message the kit I was thinking of was a laser cutter wasn't it ?
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Realised after I had sent the message the kit I was thinking of was a laser cutter wasn't it ?
Yes it was, that kit went well and is still working :thumbup:
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Hi guys, I've been thinking about the carbon fiber print-plate idea and started wondering about G-10 Garolite (think old circuit boards). It's rated at 265F (130C) and about a 10th the price of carbon fiber. Anyone have any experience with it?
Cheers
Jeff
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is that the same as Paxolin ?
Peter
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Peter, I think it's the same general type of stuff as Paxolin, but Tufnol might be a closer British equivalent. Tufnol comes in various grades as resin-bonded paper, cloth or glass fibre. I don't know if Garolite comes in these different varieties.
Andy
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I think it's same stuff, also heard it called reinforced bakelite. Several different varieties (paper, cloth, etc.), it all gets a bit confusing after a while. :scratch: From the very little experience I've had with it it seems like it should resist warping under the heated bed. At $25 for a foot square sheet of 1/4" I may just give it a try when I move to a heated bed.
Cheers
Jeff
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Jeff, would certainly be worth doing, although in comparison, how much is carbon fibre 2mm sheet?
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:offtopic: I just got mine working this evening :ddb: must remember to print spare parts as soon as possible
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Hi Chris, McMaster-Carr doesn't list metric thicknesses but 1/16" (1.58mm) is $57 and 1/8" (3mm) is $95 a sheet. If I drop the thickness from 1/4" (6mm) to 1/8" (3mm) the Garolite price drops to $15.50. Do you think 2 or 3mm would be thick enough?
Cheers
Jeff
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:offtopic: I just got mine working this evening :ddb: must remember to print spare parts as soon as possible
Nice, now the fun begins! :headbang:
Cheers
Jeff
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Only my opinion, but I think 3mm would be well thick enough. As long as it is rigid, it isn`t under any force! The heat beds weight is next to nothing and it is only function is supporting the heatbed and I suppose having the linear bearing holders screwed to it to run on the rods. I`d go as far to say that the thinner you can get away with the better - lower weight = faster acceleration for the bed.
I saw a MendelMax with a thin aluminium bed and that was far too heavy. 3mm carbon fibre could be a good one for sure!
J45on - not off topic at all!! Nice one. What is your hotend wrapped in?
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What is your hotend wrapped in?
Not sure , it feels like silicone and has a woven cloth liner ( my hot end came pre-assembled )
Did a quick google and I believe it is some thing like pyrojacket http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=high+temperature+cable+insulation&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=tET_T_HsOYSn0QXk_dGgBw&ved=0CEYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1540&bih=1248#hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=pyrojacket&oq=pyrojacket&gs_l=img.3..0i24l2.27782.31009.2.31220.10.9.0.1.1.0.77.374.9.9.0...0.0.huioW0SureY&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1540&bih=1248&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b&sei=iUX_T8OVFemw0AWrofCfBw (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=high+temperature+cable+insulation&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=tET_T_HsOYSn0QXk_dGgBw&ved=0CEYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1540&bih=1248#hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=pyrojacket&oq=pyrojacket&gs_l=img.3..0i24l2.27782.31009.2.31220.10.9.0.1.1.0.77.374.9.9.0...0.0.huioW0SureY&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1540&bih=1248&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b&sei=iUX_T8OVFemw0AWrofCfBw)
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Chris - My thought was that the 6mm might resist warping better, but I tend to way over engineer things. :loco: I think when the time comes I'll try the 3mm. Thanks. :thumbup:
Jason - Just received my hot end kit from MakerGear this AM and it uses the same insulation. I think you're right that it's pyrojacket. Funky feeling stuff, described in the parts list as 'rubber coated fiberglass insulation'.
Well I have all the parts now, just need to finish 'some assembly required'. :D
Cheers
Jeff
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Greetings. I have been along time visitor and just now registered. I have a question about the ramps 1.4. I am building a reprap as well, and am using the same electronic package as you. When I turned it on however, the z axes dos not work properly. With 1 stepper motor attached, the motor will rotate when prompted to by pronterface, however with two z axes stepper motors applied , they will not rotate, instead there is some chatter, and finally they stop responding and the system must be reset to get them to work. The steppers are not physically attached to the threaded rods, so it is not mechanical binding. This only occurs on the z axes. Have you experienced anything like this and have any advice?
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Greetings. I have been along time visitor and just now registered. I have a question about the ramps 1.4. I am building a reprap as well, and am using the same electronic package as you. When I turned it on however, the z axes dos not work properly. With 1 stepper motor attached, the motor will rotate when prompted to by pronterface, however with two z axes stepper motors applied , they will not rotate, instead there is some chatter, and finally they stop responding and the system must be reset to get them to work. The steppers are not physically attached to the threaded rods, so it is not mechanical binding. This only occurs on the z axes. Have you experienced anything like this and have any advice?
Welcome btw
Not speaking with any authority but it sounds like you may have the motors working against each other.
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Have you tried adjusting the trim pot on the z-axis board? Sounds like you just need a little more juice.
And welcome to MM! :wave:
Cheers
Jeff
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Hello, just returned from a weeks holiday today so sorry for the delay but jgroom certainly has my +1 for the problem. Seems to me like the trimmer on the pololu driver needs setting...
(http://a.pololu-files.com/picture/0J1420.600.jpg?b650bc6b6463598986f7176a6a21aa14)
Have you tried to increase the current to the motor coils using the trimmer (little black thing bottom of the above picture) If not, be very careful with it, if you wack it up too much it`ll toast the driver. AND it is STUPIDLY sensitive. Turn it all the way anticlockwise and then slowly slowly turn in back around until both motors move comfortably. To set your other motor currents, push against the axis and you have the current right when you can`t quite stop the motors with your hands. I`ve tried to do the calculations and set it using the little voltage reference point but the method above works out better and is 100% easier.
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saw this they may do biger sheets
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CARBON-FIBRE-RIGID-SHEET-2mm-thick-180mm-x-130mm-long-shiny-one-side-/150734453877?_trksid=p4340.m1986&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29%26meid%3D1595194637373981228%26pid%3D100013%26prg%3D1013%26rk%3D4%26
Peter
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its all cuming a long nice
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Thanks for the continued thoughts but my wife wanted to kit out the room for a second child which is on the way... and with the porch build and recently knocking out the fire place, we were running out of money and there was only one option.... I think you will figure out the ending
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtpmY8DxIlV1Yh0_DoC9Yv4vs9oI9K8c_3qk0Ha3h7W2SEtTU4DPBnugqhDw)
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Thanks for the continued thoughts but my wife wanted to kit out the room for a second child which is on the way... and with the porch build and recently knocking out the fire place, we were running out of money and there was only one option.... I think you will figure out the ending
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtpmY8DxIlV1Yh0_DoC9Yv4vs9oI9K8c_3qk0Ha3h7W2SEtTU4DPBnugqhDw)
nooooooo.... Say it isn't so???
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Thanks for the continued thoughts but my wife wanted to kit out the room for a second child which is on the way... and with the porch build and recently knocking out the fire place, we were running out of money and there was only one option.... I think you will figure out the ending
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtpmY8DxIlV1Yh0_DoC9Yv4vs9oI9K8c_3qk0Ha3h7W2SEtTU4DPBnugqhDw)
Chris
I hope that this doesn't mean your going to take up basket weaving. First cancelling you daughters car now this. Time to put you foot down. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cheers :beer:
Don
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Don, no time for basket weaving. According to my wife, my current hobbies consist of porch building, fire place modifications, painting and decorating and general home maintenance. To be honest, I have enjoyed painting our babies room blue - I`m a having a son!! :) :D
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Don, no time for basket weaving. According to my wife, my current hobbies consist of porch building, fire place modifications, painting and decorating and general home maintenance. To be honest, I have enjoyed painting our babies room blue - I`m a having a son!! :) :D
Chris
Congratulations on the son. Now all the more reason not to give up any workshop toys or space. Your going to need them all in the future to help educate that wee lad.
:D :D :) :)
Cheers :beer:
Don
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Yep, my daughter loves it already. She is only 3 so really she doesn`t understand what the lathe or mill does. Her favourate machine is the CNC machine. She loves me writing her name on the computer and then pressing a button and the machine cutting her name into an off cut of wood. She calls it a present making machine as it makes her little name presents! You know what, I`m chuffed to bits I`m having a son as although I`ll try not to be a pushy parent, I`ve always dreamed he would be interested in football (soccer) and machining... but that said, I`m just a keen for my daughter to show interest if she is willing. Thanks for the congrats Don.
Chris
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I will 2nd that congratulations Chris!
Having a son is cool (I imagine so is a daughter, but I don't have one). My youngest loves the CNC as well. He calls it the "robot"
I have an idea for Christmas presents for the kids (mine, nieces and nephews) that I will share with you later. I think you would get a kick out of it.
Eric