MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: PeterE on September 06, 2015, 04:42:51 PM
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OK, so let's start with this one. It will be a slow build as it has to be fitted into the too small time for hobbies and there are more projects than this.
Anyhow, I found this useful left-over piece of counter-topafter we updated our washing room the other year.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-01.jpg)
It has a black laminate topping and is ready laminated at top, back side and the right edge. The left edge have the cut edge which is still not sealed by laminate strip - but it will be. It is about 40mm thick which I think should be sturdy enough for this little printer.
All the box frame pieces have been sawn out from a piece of 12mm furniture plywood (7-layer type). I think you can also see that I have doubled the thickness of the fron by gluing a second piece of ply to it. I want good thickness for the screws securing the Z and X travel parts..
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-02.jpg)
And finally a trial assembly to see what needs to be adjusted and to make sure that the front of the box frame is absolutely perpendicular to the base.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-03.jpg)
I find it an advantage to make trial assemblies to get a hint on where minor adjustments are necessary and then only have to glue and screw once. The marking tape with a line shows the centerline of the baseboard as a help to get the fram front in right angle to the base in X.
Will add to this when suitable bits arrive.
/Peter
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looks like a solid start
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I will be following this thread keenly. I have just finished building a prusa i3 from a kit (still yet to be calibrated and commissioned). I am not very impressed with the rigidity of the frame or the amount of slop between the linear bearings and smooth rods. Yours looks like it will be a lot more rigid. Are you going to use smooth rods or vee slot extrusions?
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Thanks bertie_b, we will see where it goes.
nrml, the reason for chosing the box frame was that I was uncertain about the rigidity between the Y-axis motion and the rest in the plate version. Only a couple of nuts securing the upright plate to the table motion seems optimistic to me. The box frame has a rigidity built-in so to say and the Y-axis motion is secured very differently as well.
I will start using smooth rods. Have found drawn stainless rounds to h9 tolerance which is the same as for the ground ones. These should have quite little sloppiness with the linear bearings. I tried one on and couldn't feel any slop so far. We will see where it goes. There are other linear motion solutions to look at if this does not work.
BR
/Peter
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Look forward to this one Peter, keep a tab on the costs.
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Will do.
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The problem I found with my kit was that the combination of the poor tolerances of cheap LM8UU bearings and the use of just 3 bearings for the bed plate mean that the bed is not well supported on the smooth rods. I bought replacement bearings and these improved things slightly, but even a fraction of millimetre increase in tolerance translates to a significant wobble once the bed is fully assembled. There was very little slop when running the replacement bearing by itself on the rod, but it can rock side to side a bit after bed assembly.
The X and Z axis haven't been a problem because the use of two closely spaced bearings on each rod provides a much greater area of contact. If you haven't already considered it, using two sets of bearings together or the long version of the linear bearings on the Y axis might save you a lot of frustration . Again, if you haven't already considered it, using 10mm smooth rods and trapezoidal leadscrews (dirt cheap on ebay) would be a big improvement over the average prusa i3 kit.
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nrml,
Hmmm, see what you mean. The bed on the Y motion only bears on three points and the lonely point is of course on one rail.
But I think I have seen someone make another type of bearing holder for the lonley side which is longer and have two bearings. That will make it work more like on the X and Z motions and then probably be stiffer and less prone to wobble.
I must surf around and see where I saw that. I'll be back.
/Peter
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Within the bearing, the area of contact between the balls and the rod is miniscule. Poor quality bearings and unevenly ground areas on the rods make the contact area even less. I think the 4 bearing kit supplier (if I remember correctly) is a spanish company selling steel framed Prusa i3 kits.
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Yep, it's a Spanish Co. I got all the bearings and the toothed belts and gears in one go at a fairly good price. Cannot complain about that.
When assembling I have heard that the linear bearings are sensitive to forces trying to flatten them and that may be a reason for them to get out of order. I have been thinking about using a piece of round bar stuck into the bearing while assembling. That should limit the ovaling forces. But yet again, I might very well make a couple of aluminium bearing holders instead. That will totally avoid risk for out of round. If I do that I will also look into the possibility to have two LM8 bearings close together instead of one lonely at one side. That should also stiffen things up.
But we will see, I'll start with the basic originals to begin with.
/Peter
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OK, the test fit turned out good and now all things are square in all desired directions. The box frame is therefore glued up properly and after some filling and sanding the first of a suitable no of coats of paint is on. (Sorry for the crappy cut-out but I didn't want to scare you with the mess taking the view away from the printer frame.)
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-04.jpg)
The red shop colour strikes again - and looks nice with the dark grey (gray?) baseplate.
More pictures coming as new parts are added.
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
Good to see your project log. I think you started as I went on holiday. Will start mine soon once the workshop is sorted (a week or two). The graphic display is very good although I could not use software to adjust the contrast (adjusts fine with the pot on the bottom left). I think we will end up with very different machines so the comparison/similarities will be interesting. There are a number of mechanical points about this design which I do not understand, and quite frankly make no sense to me, so my version will be quite different in some ways (not necessarily better - though hopefully so).
On a slightly different topic I am building mine with a view to using the octopi wireless interface ( http://octoprint.org/ ), so that print jobs can be started, paused, and visually monitored from any web enabled device. Might be worth a look if you have not already seen it.
Good luck with your assembly, watching with interest.
Best Regards
picclock
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PeterE
I've not had anything to do with 3 d printing but am interested. Will be following this thread to see how it goes - thanks for posting.
John.
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picclock,
Good to hear that you will also start a build thread, that will give a good overview over different ways forward using different techniques and other choices. As this is my first 3D build I will follow the standard description quite closely to learn.
John/jcs0001,
Hopefully everything will go as I plan - but what ever does - so I hope this thread shows both good things and things that tend to go wrong. This is also my first try in the 3D printing area, and as I said in the first entry; this will take time as I build as I go and quite a lot of stuff is still on its way in.
Currently I am (eagerly) waiting for the printed parts. :drool:
BR
/Peter
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If you are ever stuck needing a spare or replacement part printed, let me know. I'll print one off and send it by post.
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nrml,
Thank you very much for your kind offer, but I found out that there are at least two persons at my job with their own machines and one of them is printing my parts right now. If anyone of them refuses I will take your kind offer.
BR
/Peter
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Time for an update.
The ordered parts are slowly arriving and the bits that stop me are the printed ones. My workmate swamped by jobs so I just have to give him some slack but I know the bits aren't that far away now.
The parts ordered via ebay have basically arrived so let's have look at the goodies:
The first picture shows the paper template I intend to use as stencil for putting a name on the printer, thought that would be kind of fun.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-05.jpg)
Next "bag" contained the electronics. An Arduino Mega, a shield card for stepper drivers, the small display, five stepper drivers of the most common type and, cables and connectors to join them all. All at a bargain price as mentioned above.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-06.jpg)
Next is a kit of mechanical parts, that is bearing of different sorts, Flex couplings, toothed belt with gears and a specially treated M8x60 machine screw used as filament feeder.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-07.jpg)
Stepper motors are a must and even a bit expensive, these came to me from Italy . The shipment also included cables but I missed adding them to the photo.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-08.jpg)
Another parcel from China contained the extruder nozzle with heater and thermo resistor. The fan was also included as you can see.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-09.jpg)
the heatbed looks like below. It can be used for both 12 and 24 V DC. It will be mounted beneath a mineral glass plate that will be the actual build bed. Size is about 200x200mm.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-10.jpg)
last week the three end switches used to mark the end of travel for each of the axis.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-11.jpg)
The last picture for this time shows the threaded bars and smooth rods I will be using to put the movements together. From back to front. 2x1m M10 stainless threaded rod, then a 1m M5 stainless for Z-movement, and finally a bunch of stainless smooth rods 8mm dia. These smooth rods keep th h9 tolerance so should work well with the bearings.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-12.jpg)
Still to arrive are the printed parts as said, together with a large graphic display to replace the smaller one - I missed the difference from the beginning but the overall cost is OK anyway.
More pictures when the build commence.
I will of course keep track of cost during the build but prefer to wait until finished to get the tally right.
BR
/Peter
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Hi Peter
Good to see the build log continues. Do you have the part number or info on your motors? I found it difficult to get ones with optimal characteristics, and in the end settled for nema17 LDO 42sth38 1684AC, (2.8V, 1.68A. 1.65 Ohms, 3.6Kg.cm torque - spec attached) which I purchased from SemiU in the UK. They are pretty std 5% 200 step jobs. The voltage of the motor does not really matter as its the current which drives, and the faster you can change the winding current the faster the motor speed, hence my intention to drive these from a 24V source (its all about the inductance :med:).
Saw a video on youtube about a printer which layed carbon fiber yarn in with the plastic (nylon in this case) to massively improve mechanical characteristics. It sounds a lot better than than using filament with carbon fibre particles embedded.
link: (no affiliation)
Will be very interested to hear about any snags or issues you encounter.
Hope to start my build log soon.
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Yes, the build log continues, but slowly. The set of stepper motors I bought are these http://www.ebay.com/itm/301698572024?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/301698572024?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) (scroll down to the specs.)
This is the first time I am using stepper motors so have to guess a lot (to say the least), anyway they are here now so these will be the ones that goes on. If I find them too weak I have to get other ones, but the specs looked OK as far as I could judge.
I will take smallish steps through the build and include photos on the way, and of course add things i find as awkward or odd or anything that don't feel right, as well as those things that goes well.
That video was interesting. Something to keep in ind for more complex bits - if I get that far.
Waiting for your build log as well ;-)
BR
/Peter
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Hi Peter
I think the motors are all but identical. I am assuming 360mN.m is 0.36Kgs force at 1mm, which equates to 3.6Kg.cms. If so they should be fine. The amount a stepper deviates from its controlled position is caused by the lamination tolerance plus the load you put on the motor. Lamination tolerance is unchangeable, however by minimising load you should be able to get close to that figure. The 3.6kg.cms figure is the point at which the motor rotor will have moved so much that it will likely step to the next available position. Choosing a motor for optimum performance is a tricky thing. On the one hand you want loads of torque so that you can maintain positional accuracy, but that comes at the cost of much higher rotor inertia which limits acceleration. So at best is an educated guess. I think the Y axis is the one to watch out for, as this will accelerate the highest weight load.
I weighed the assembled x axis filament feeder with motor and attached head/fan (minus bearings, carriage and rods) and it came out to 480 gms (picture), which is a high load for the X axis. I intend to use a bowden tube setup to minimise this load, but its something to bear in mind as this will hopefully be traversing the x axis at a fair rate and may cause frame issues.
Best Regards
picclock
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It's a bit of a pain panning around that huge image Picclock - any chance that you could reduced it to the 640 x 480 norm :scratch:
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Hi picclock,
Thanks for verifying the motors, it seems I have selected something useful.
About the weights/loads. I am with you on those issues that is why I doubled the thickness of the portal board in my build. It makes it handle loads better and probably also counteract some of the vibrations together with the thick base. That will, if I think correctly, improve printer accuracy as a whole.
I also intend to look into possibilities of lightening the carrier board (200x200x12mm 7-layer plywood) as the glass plate plus the heatbed adds to the weight but also to stability if I get it right.
/Peter
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@ awemason
Sorry bout picture size - I did not check.
@PeterE
Trouble with the stepper offset from intended value is that it is not linear, e.g, for a small load initially a large error occurs then as the load increases, error deviation is less per unit. A complete can of worms .. .
I wish you every success with your build - looking forward to seeing your first printed plastic. Hope to catch up with your log very soon.
At the moment I'm trying top figure out how to make flexible filament less temperature dependent (probably not possible).
Best Regards
picclock
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A small update before some work related travel must be done.
I cut out the template to paint the name onto the printer portal using a spray can. I did not succeed very well as the spray lifted the paper template at places and smeared the color, sigh. I think it shows despite having replaced the template for next go.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-13.jpg)
I did not want to redo all the painting so with the template back onto the portal I used the traditional method of dabbing color onto the template.
A small piece of washing spunge was used for dabbing and now it worked better - should have done that from start really. This time the missed places was filled with black and the misplaced black did not get worse.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-14.jpg)
When back after travel I will sit down with a smallish brush and fill in the bits that are supposed to be red and that way touch up the whole thing. I hope it will turn out OK. We'll see.
The printed parts have turned up! They are made in ABS as that seems to be the best material for structural parts like these. Looking more closely at the bits we can see some flash and that comes from wanting to create a larger surface on the build plate to secure the part better and to get a better precision.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-15.jpg)
I have started to tear the flash away, but to get it really nice I need to use both files and a knife. I want nice smooth bits to work with. As soon as all bits are cleaned up, the assembly will begin.
I'll be back!
/Peter
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Hi Peter E
Good to see that your making progress, and have received your plastic parts. I weighed the Metal Y base and it came in at 302gms bare, the heater board at 164gms. With 3mm glass at another 300 gms + bearings looks like an all up weight of around 800 gms. To which the weight of the plastic must be added. Let me know how your build weights work out. This is quite a mass to move about in an accurate timely fashion using a thin (stretchy ?) belt and relatively low power motor.
I am still completing other work after the house move, but hope to begin assembly on mine soon.
Best Regards
picclock
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Bed movement does not seem to be an issue if you don't crank the print speed too much. Mine has the aluminium base plate, plywood insulation, MK2 heated bed, glass plate, all the clips/fittings etc and some very poorly fitting linear bearings and I still get pretty decent printouts at slow speeds (30mm/s). Rather than spending lots of time and effort in refining the Prusa, it might be better to put the money and effort into your second build after learning the lessons the first build teaches.
I am collecting the components for my next printer build, which will be an extra rigid all metal corexy printer with no printed components, a 30 X 30 X 30 cm build volume and an enclosed chamber.
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@nmrl
The one major advantage of the core xy type design is that it minimises the stepper load as the only the head moves in all axis. Clearly eliminating the issue of moving the printer bed weight and allowing higher speed/better accuracy. However the price to be paid for this is increased mechanical complexity and poorer head/bed access for maintenance/blockages or alterations. For larger machines this is clearly the way to go as the problems of moving weight around increase with size. I will be interested to see how your core xy build progresses, and what advantages accrue. Will you use V slot mechanics? I have no experience of them but it seems to be a better system than smooth rods and linear bearings. Perhaps you could do a build log and keep us all up to date.
Best Regards
picclock
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I intend do a build log once I get started. The reason I decided to go for a corexy mechanism is that it can easily be incorporated into a very rigid printer. Besides, it is a very elegant mechanism. I love the V-slot concept, but I am not sure if wear will be an issue and how rigid a gantry running on wheels can be made without binding being an issue. Also, if you are buying readymade gantry hardware the costs rise very steeply. I am planning on sticking with linear rails and oilite bushes - I have had very bad experiences with cheap linear bearings so far and Igus polymer bearings are a bit too expensive. I am going for 32 bit electronics (duet). It is going to be a challenge for me, as I don't have an engineering background, but I am sure it will be an enjoyable one.
I don't want to sidetrack Peter's thread, so I'll start a separate one in the next week or two once enough stuff arrives for me to get started. They are on the slow boat from China.
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Just a short update. Of course my cameras battery decided to be empty, so no pictures today. :palm:
I fixed the naming to an " OK it is not an altar" level. This printer is for test and learning to begin with. The fixes went OK, but could have been much better.
This means that the portal and carrier for the X and Z axis is finally secured to the base.
All structural plastic parts are cleaned up and just waiting for assembly.
Next up is to cut the threaded and smooth rods for the Y axis motion and begin assembly, and to cut out the ply for the Y carrier. I will use the heatbed as template this first try before introducing any changes.
picclock,
Interesting things you mention about the Y axis table weight. I will weigh my setup once compiled all together, I will use a 12mm ply board instead of your alu plate. As said earlier, I also look into making a few lightening holes in the ply board as it is mainly used to carry the heatbed and glass plate.
nrml,
Interesting to read about your experiences and the way you will go for the nest build. I notice that you are very suspicious about the cheap linear LM8UU bearings, and smooth rods as a concept. On my part I have had experiences with that type of movements way back in time when I was working with packaging machinery. There was no problem with linear bearings and rods then - but I suppose they were of another quality. Will get back to that later.
When it comes to lubrication I will use the same silicon grease as I have used for my lathe and mill, namely ordinary car wheel bearing grease, good specs and copes well with both heat and speed.
As for the Z motion using M5 threaded rod, I think there is quite a difference in precision between the ordinary galvanized stuff and the stainless ones. The stainless are much nicer in both finish and movement as far as I can tell, and nearly no sloppiness either.
Will be interesting to read your build log once your bits have arrived.
No problem with side-tracking my thread.
BR
/Peter
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OK, so a couple of pictures, whereof one i have to re-take as it got blurred :palm:
The first shows the naming (very blurred) will make a new tomorrow.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-16.jpg)
The second shows all the printed parts for the Y axis motion. Well not quite, I notice that I lack the four hold-down parts to lock the Y axis to the portal bottom. Those will come shortly.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-17.jpg)
... and finally, a couple of 8mm threaded rods in two of the corner feet for the Y axis.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-18_1.jpg)
I noticed when cutting them to size that stainless rods are actually quite a lot better material from both precision and stiffness point of view compared with ordinary mild steel or galvanized rods.
The small bit on the upper rod is the toothed belt tensioner in its correct position. The motor bracket is fitted in the same way on the other end. Time did not allow for all bits to come together tonight so will have to wait until tomorrow.
/Peter
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Evening All,
Just noticed that one of the pictures was lost, sorry. I had to exchange the old one for one with better quality and now I cannot change the address. The image name is now "3Dprinter-18_1.jpg" and if any of the moderators would be so kind to add the _1 the image will be back.
But that was only one thing to talk about.
The 3D printer project moves slowly but that's how it is. Got some time in the shop tonight to think and cut a few more pieces.
In the first picture it looks much the same as the last one, but I discovered that I should have used a 12mm threaded rod instead of the 10mm one for the long rod. So off to the store and get a length of 12mm stainless threaded rod. It is now cut to length.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-20.jpg)
It does probably not show that much, but will have a significant effect. A 12mm bar is much stiffer than a 10mm one, especially when being just short of 400mm long. With this the Y axis movement should be quite stable and not want to bend under tension.
I also came to the conclusion that if I make a sort of "nut" that the 12mm rod is threaded through and that the nut itself is screwed down into the base of the portal and into the base plate, that would make quite sure that the y axis is fixed in level and angle to the portal. Two screws in each "nut" should provide a good enough connection. Will be this weeks task to do.
Next image shows the piece of plywood I intend to use as heatbed carrier plate and it is to that one the bearaings and drive belt is attached.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-21.jpg)
I am also thinking of making some "lightning holes" in the carrier plate, both to make it lighter, but also to make heat transportation easier to lessening heat skewing in the carrier.
In the final picture I just put the heatbed on top of the carrier plate to give a view of how it will look. The heatbed will be held at a distance from the carrier plate by a spring in each corner, That should make any movements from heat possible to handle within reasonable limits.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-22.jpg)
So, this weeks task will be to make the four special nuts to tie the y axis to the base and portal.
/Peter
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Hi Peter
Really good to see your progress. Would like to post some of my own but its my daughters wedding Friday and I'm not allowed to play. Am currently in the process of making a spring loaded idler pulley. Will post pictures when I get a chance.
Keep up the good work.
Best Regards
picclock
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@PeterE
Looking good. Are you going to put a layer of aluminium foil between the heated bed and plywood to reflect some of the heat back into the bed?
I have no idea if it actually makes a difference or not but I did it because it cost nothing and made me feel better about reducing heat loss.
@picclock
good luck with the speech. Hope the wedding goes perfectly to plan.
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Good evening, me again,
@picclock; Of course, such family matters have definite precedence :thumbup: Hope it will be a joyful event!
@nrml; Haven't thought of that really. An idea to look into once assembled and tested. It is an easy one to retrofit. But my thinking is that as there will also be a glass plate clamped onto the heatbed, the glass will ackumulate the heat and keep it stable. Should be enough really. Actually I am more concerned about getting the plywood carrier board to hot so will see if I can add a couple of holes for better airflow and cooling. Well, we'll see where it goes.
Now onto next advancement. The four small threaded securing blocks are now done. Had a piece of 20x40 mm aluminium from which I cut four 20 mm pieces. Following some filing, marking, drilling and threading, here we are:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-23.jpg)
The little blocks are about the same size as the printed plastic ones, but mine are threaded using the same M12x1.75 mm thread as the stainless rod. This will limit the need for using the blocks as stop blocks to which the rods are locked using the nuts, but instead acts as positioners and positively locks down the rods to the portal and base at the same time. I think this will make the whole setup more stable.
I discovered during trial assembly that the threaded rods runs more or less right on top of the portal's base surface. So, the blocks are milled down to show the tips of the thread and the rods are correctly positioned.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-24.jpg)
Assembled it will look something like in the picture below.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-25.jpg)
Still just trial assy but this week it will be completely and finally assembled after the plywood carrier board is currently getting a bit of paint.
/Peter
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I meant foil between the carrier board and the heated bed to keep radiant heat away from the plywood board and reflect it back to the heated bed and glass plate.
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Hi nrml,
Yes, I understood, but just fixing the foil to the plywood carrier will not do the full job I think. It ought to have some sort of temperature insulation/isolation between the board and the foil to be fully effective - or? :scratch:
BR
/Peter
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I wouldn't worry about the heat wood warms up good and it is well below the flashpoint, one of the things affecting it more is cross breezes cooling it down during printing.
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@PeterE NMrl
Thanks for your kind wishes. The wedding went off very well thx, even the speech seemed to go down OK so thats a big thing out of the way.
Peter you seem to have made very rapid progress, and its looking really good. Tom Osseltons comment is quite valid. I had looked at two strategies to deal with the issue. The first to surround the build area with a wall of cardboard perhaps an inch or so higher than the printed object. The other was to 3D print a throwaway wall around the print being made. May well stick a sheet of cork under the bed heater to improve insulation, though it limits the bed temp to about 120C (more than I will need ATM :thumbup:)
Great to see your progress and pictures. Will post more on my log when I get a chance. Just picked up a large mirror on Gumtree for £5 which should make at least 6 printer beds (depending on how many I break cutting it :drool:)
Hope to be getting on with the build soon.
Best Regards
picclock
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Good Evening folks,
@tom osselton; Thanks for that info. Then I can skip some work with the heatbed carrier. Will keep that in mind.
@picclock; The cardboard fence idea seems interesting, but having it come up higher than the finished piece may be an issue as the cooling fan for the extruder might be below that fence at least in the beginning and then cause a cooling airflow that is unwanted.
Anyway, got some time in the shop this evening and took the opportunity to assemble most of the Y axis bits. I am following Dragonfly's (John Ridley) instructions to make it easy on my part. The instruction is here: http://www.dragonflydiy.com/2013/10/building-prusa-i3-printer-y-axis.html (http://www.dragonflydiy.com/2013/10/building-prusa-i3-printer-y-axis.html).
The image shows the assembled and secured mechanics.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-26.jpg).
It is very close to square all over already now by just tightening. It only remains to do the last part when securing the whole thing to the portal and baseplate. This will be done when the Carrier board and the driveline is in place.
So, time for the carrier board and I am using the mesaurements from the instruction. There shall be a bracket for the toothed belt fixed to the carrier. I found that it should be placed so that the bracket will not pass the corner of the stepper motor, and centered between the bearings, see below.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-27.jpg)
In the other end at the tension point, the bracket must not reach the fitting to avoid un-necessary bending forces.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-28.jpg)
Now we turn the whole thing onto its "feet" for a try in place in the portal. The carrier board and motor is placed towards the operator,:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-29.jpg)
... and with the carrier at the other end away from the operator it looks as follows.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-30.jpg)
As can be seen, I haven't fitted any bearing in the tensioner yet as the ones I originally ordered were too big :-( One of the mishaps in ordering. As soon as I have the correct size I will continue assembly.
/Peter
-
Eveni'n
Got a few minutes for a quick addition. Started to assemble the Z movement. The pictures show the right side and the left will be assembled in the same way.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-31.jpg)
I placed a piece of 3 mm cork (that I normally use for track bed for my H0 model railroad) as a spacing between the base plate and the stepper motor. This gives the right measurement. The black bracket is secured both from "round the corner" and straight into the portal behind the motor.
The vertical smooth rod is placed in its hole with some light press fit. This is necessary for stability. I used a reamer to get the hole size correct.
Then the upper end is held by yet another little bracket fitted in the same way really.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-32.jpg)
The picture shows the setup - sorry for the tall picture.
Before going further I have to get a new X-end idler as the printed part was not quite OK. Will get a new one during next week. (This does not hinder anything as I am on a business trip at the time).
TIP! I noticed that the brackets have been designed for countersunk screws. Be careful not to overtighten, the ABS plastic needs careful handling. In my view cheesehead screws would have been a better choice - where possible of course.
BR
/Peter
-
Me again,
Got a good day in the shop and made some more trial assemblies of the 3D printer.
First picture shows an overview of the mechanical assy as it ought to look when finalized.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-33.jpg)
Both the X and Z axis are more or less done, but as can be seen, there is a faulty component in the form of a broken X end idler (to the left). It turned out that my friend didn't find the correct settings so the part was un-necessarily brittle and broke as I aimed to push in the nut for the Z travel control. A quick look at the broken surface show34ed that there was no fusing between the layers so too cold during printing. Otherwise it looks as I expect.
A note of caution here for anyone trying to make a printer of the same style. As I started to put things together I was looking at the material list for info on smooth rods length. It said 350 and 370 mm, BUT, Do measure both the X and the Z distances before cutting! They turned out to be 430 and 470 mm respectively.
Next picture is a close-up of the mechanics.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-34.jpg)
A quick check showed that the setup is actually surprisingly stable. No back-lash or slop in either bearings or other things. I think this is going to work fine.
Then a closer look at the extruder.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-35.jpg)
The herringbone gears are also surprisingly slop-free! It feels like it is very well thought through so far.
One thing that I didn't like though is that I had to pack a larger amount of washers behind the screw head to locate the hobbed bolt for the filament feed correctly. There are obviously quite a few versions of feed stuff and I happened to pick the wrong one.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-36.jpg)
Well, I already found a solution :-) I will cut off the head, thread the end and use a nyloc nut together with Loctite to create a better positioned "screw head" using just one washer appropriately. That will be tomorrows job.
-
Hi Peter
Great build thread, and pictures. Good to see how quickly you have got it all together. Thanks for sharing.
Re smooth rod lengths. The info I have is X=370, Y=350, and Z=320. Y bearings limit movement by -95mm so overall y is 225mm after allowing 15mm per rod each end. Length of y rod is set by bearing spacing and required movement. Bearing end to end on my stuff is 95mm. Not sure why x length is so large.. . Is it that yours are different due to the wooden frame construction ??
Many thanks and keep up the good work
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Thanks, knowing the forums desire for well told projects I am trying my best to write down what I do and find.
The difference between the lengths of the rods is, as you say, due to to the different sized portal. Since the Z rods are positioned by the corners of the portal they will by default have another size. Same with the X rods that then must be cut to fit the Z rods positions.
This got me worries for a while and I wondered if I cut the portal to the wrong size from the beginning, but I didn't. The advantage of this is that I get a greater height for the extruder travel which in turn equal taller objects if I want to.
Next week is business travel week so no shop activities ...
/Peter
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Hi Peter
I have been very tempted to up the build platform/size on mine, but have resisted so far. I suspect that an object 8" on a side for me is massive - and if I needed larger two prints joined would do the job. I think if I ever needed larger the cube type that nmrl was talking about may be better as only the head moves, but I can't see myself needing something so large.
I've managed to cut the mirror bed glass for mine now after breaking loads of it :wack:, so I hope to be able to mount the bearings to it soon.
Bad luck about the travel - but if its like over here, eating out on the company is not too bad.
Best Regards
picclock
-
Just a quickie this evening,
The adjusted filament feed bolt now looks as below.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-37.jpg)
I cut off the hex head and threaded the end. Used an ordinary nut and screwed the whole thing together. After matching the feed knurling with the filament hole, I unwound the nut, put a drop of Loctite on and screwed it back together again. Now waitning for the Loctite to cure completely and then I will tidy the end up flush with the nut so it looks more or less like an ordinary bolt head. That will save me a bunch of space.
/Peter
-
picclock,
Unfortunately I read that you have done all your glass cutting, but I thought that the following could be useful for next time. I hope you don't mind.
I noticed how a proffessional cut a smaller piece of glass without it breaking at the wrong place some time ago when need a piece. He first cut the line and then lifted the pane and put a straight thin rod - think something like an M3 all-thread - right under the cut. Then a small push-down on the waste side and the glass snapped nicely at the cut line. The rod acted like the edge on a folding rig.
/Peter
-
Dipping the cutting wheel in a very light oil or even diesel, helps enormously cutting glass. Then rather than resting the cut on something hard, use two used match sticks, one at each end of the cut line, and gently press down either side.
-
@PeterE
@Awemason
Thanks for the glass cutting tips. I was using cutting oil (WD40). My best efforts so far have been by tapping the glass on the opposite side of the cut line. You can visually see the crack propagate under the score line. If you propagate the crack too far the piece you are cutting separates and gravity accelerates the needed part towards the scrap bin :bang:.
I will try the bend over a rod/matchsticks trick on some scrap and see if it is more successful. The sheet of mirror glass I am cutting from is quite large, 1.1x0.7 Metres, which makes it more difficult. However it will soon all be in much, much smaller pieces :palm:.
Embarrassingly, my father was a glazier but the magic has not passed on down the gene line.
Best Regards
picclock
PS Just tried the break over rod trick(3mm silver steel), and it works like a charm. Many Thanks :thumbup:
-
Looking very nice indeed. Those direct extruders are very user friendly. Almost zero hassle with set up and tuning.
-
Back from business trip and into the shop.
@picclock; Good that the trick with the rod works!
@nrml; Good to read that this extruder design is user friendly and easy to tune. Suits a newbie to 3D very well :thumbup:
Got the screw trimmed to keep the head as compact as possible. Put the screw in the lathe and turned the protruding threaded part down to the nut thus forming a new "head".
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-38.jpg)
Re-assembled it looks as above. Used a flash this time to show the hobbed part of the bolt in line with the feed hole in the extruder body.
Time to test fit the extruder to the X carrier - but it comes very close and I have seen that there is a distance piece in some of the descriptions. A piece I don't have, but it is ever so easy to make :-)
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-39.jpg)
The question pops up; How thick should that distance be? I suspect it should be so thick it gives room for the bolt head but not a lot more to avoid too much twisting forces on the two parallell X way bars.
I suppose plexi would be appropriate as replacement for a printed distance piece?
/Peter
-
Mine mounts perpendicular to the X slide so I am afraid I can't give you any first hand information on the thickness needed. Have you had a little search on thingiverse or equivalents for a suitable piece?
-
Hi PeterE
Just some info which may be useful for setup of the Y axis drive belt. I have just done a series of calculations to determine the change of belt length caused by poor height alignment of the driving, idler and bed mounting. Basically, if there are height differences as the bed gets closer to the end it it will stretch the belt to accommodate the difference in length, and the closer to the end the larger the error is. For a 1mm height difference I calculated 0.236mm belt stretch at a distance of 2cm. Two fixes spring to mind. Easiest is to make very sure that the heights are all the same so there is no angular deflection of the belt, or a slightly more bodgy method is to ensure that the bed mount and idler/driver are always a fair distance from the end position. At 5cms the stretch falls to .1mm and halves linearly from then on.
Hopefully this will prove of some use in your setup.
Best Regards
picclock
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@nrml; Thanks for the info. It is actually useful as it does not say no to my guess :dremel:
Another thing, why not show a picture of your setup? It would be interesting for me at least!
@picclock; Thanks for that info. Good to know.
When I get my idler from China (20 tooth GT2 flanged idler with bearings) I will fit the belt for the Y movement and as it is not yet fixed to the base it will be easy to take a picture to show if it deflects or not.
/Peter
-
I managed to get a couple of pictures of the extruder to make it a bit clearer. Sorry about the poor quality. The printer has ended up in the storeroom which is a bit of a dump at the moment and the lighting is not very good there. It got the marching orders from my wife after occupying the dining table for over a month. I'll drag it out and get better pictures later.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/nrml76/wades%20extruder_zpsova1amjr.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/nrml76/media/wades%20extruder_zpsova1amjr.jpg.html)
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/nrml76/spares_zpscryk1pad.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/nrml76/media/spares_zpscryk1pad.jpg.html)
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@nrml; Ahh interesting indeed. Your Wades extruder design is different from mine!
Your version seem to nip the extruder nozzle with heater using a clamp in the base, whereas mine does not have that at all. See image below. (http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-40.jpg)
(Snip from picture on John Riddley's site as my camera isused by my daughter on vacation).
As far as I understand, my design requires a metal (aluminium) plate with a slot catching the extruder nozzle and heater, and will co-act as cooling fin to save the extruder feed parts.
Have you experienced any problems with heat from using ABS (which I understand requires a bit high temp than PLA f ex)?
/Peter
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I don't think heat from the extruder itself will be an issue, as the E3D V6 is superbly designed. The cold side of the heat-break is barely warm to touch even after prolonged prints. I haven't printed with ABS yet because I don't trust the printed black PLA parts on my X carriage and extruder to stand up to radiant heat from the hot bed at 110 celsius.
A rebuild with ABS-polycarbonate parts and better hardware is in the pipeline at some point. At present my thoughts are that a new build from scratch is going to be more fun and educational than improving the kit I already have. Buying a kit was a bit of a double edged sword. The supplied components are just about the cheapest that will function. On the positive side it works and it was an easy way for a complete newbie to gain some understanding of how 3D printers work. I had access to an outstanding build manual and all the electronics came pre-programmed and ready to plug and print. So it was as painless a build as it could possibly be barring the frustration of dealing with poor quality components.
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Hi nrml,
Sounds re-assuring that the extruder nozzle has a good design. That will make my first tries safer - I think ...
My plastic parts on my printer is actually ABS all of them so no temp issue there.
I understand your choice to start using a ready-made kit, but from my point-of-view the build has so far been vary easy. The principles and designs are simple and straightforward.
I am just preparing to make the distance pieces from Plexi glass (perspex) which should be quite enough.
Oh, and one thing to add. I noticed in the instructions I linked to that the measurement of quite a few of the screws is 6x32 which in metric is best translated to M4 (really M3.5 but those are expensive), and then some of the holes have to be gently broached (with a drill) to M4.
BR
/Peter
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Just a passing thought.... If you are making the spacer from acrylic, it might be cheaper to buy and easier to cut a thin sheet and glue thin layers together with acetone to get just the right sized spacer. It should also be in theory possible to bond the acrylic to the ABS with acetone.
-
Thanks for your thought! Also my thought actually. I have a suitable piece of Plexi of about 3 mm thickness. two or three layers should do the trick. Bonding with actone would work well from what I heard from my friend at work.
-
The spacer is being printed along with a couple of replacement bits.
A little more done today while waiting for idler wheels with bearings (that takes an awful long time from China this time ...). I got tired of waiting to continue the assembly so I quickly turned up two aluminium idlers from a scrap piece I had.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-41.jpg)
Nothing difficult, just a wheel with some flanges and a 4 mm hole through the center. This will do until I get the ones with bearings.
This also meant I could go on and fit the toothed belt and give it a first tension. A little fiddly to get the ends through the holes in the mid piece under the table, but nothing out of the ordinary.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-42.jpg)
When that was done the whole Y-movement could be secured to the base by screwing the four threaded pads down through the portal base and into the black base-plate. 16 screws will make it stay I think :thumbup:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-43.jpg)
Also did some cleaning up in the "old computer items" box and found a neate 400 W PC PSU leaving just short of 30 A on the 12 V DC side. I will use that one for powering the printer. Neat thing including power switch and fan and also power for the arduino and others.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-44.jpg)
So the only bits blocking the rest of the assembly are those re-printed bits that will arrive shortly.
/Peter
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Hi Peter
Good to see that you are progressing well. The pictures look very good. With 12v for the heater bed it will need ~ 12A current. One of the first things I shall make when up and running is a cable chain to keep all the wires in the right place.
Will you be done by xmas ??
Looking forward to your next installment.
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Thanks, it is coming together quite nicely, if a bit slow though ...
This with collecting cables and strapping them together is something I am having a think about. I don't particularly want to strap them using tie straps as the bundle becomes quite stiff. Cable chains is one way, but I think I will test those mesh tubes (plastic "stockings") as those seem to keep the parts together but not locking them so the final bunch will be "bendier" and more easily follow the movements. But that is still a thought ...
Done before X-mas? I don't know really, I surely hope so.
BR
/Peter
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Pictures look good indeed! The slight yellowish hue from your camera, lighting, or both make a lot of the parts look gold plated at first glance!
-
The lighting is actually just the normal fluorescent tubes I have in my garage/workshop. I found that the flash on the camera made the images way too sharp and cold, and the reflexes/glares tended to hide details so I decided to stay with the ordinary light.
And no, no parts are even remotely close to any gold not even brass this time.
/Peter
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Hi Peter
The reason I suggested cable chains for the bed is that they limit the bend radius and control the vertical position of the wiring. I ordered in some flexible silicon cable specifically for the heatbed. I will get some thinner silicon lead for the head heater and thermister. Temporarily I will use direct filament drive to manufacture the parts I need for a bowden tube arrangement so I'm not sure its worth getting silicon leads for my extruder stepper.
happy building
Best Regards
picclock
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Thanks for the info picclock! :thumbup: Will have a look at that when time comes.
At last they arrived! The idlers made to fit GT2 toothed belts and with a ball bearing in their centers.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-44_5.jpg)
I ordered them late October and they arrived late last week - talk about slow boat from China ....
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-45.jpg)
Anyway, one fitted to the Y movement and the other to the X movement tensioner in prep for assembly as soon as I get the prints ...
/Peter
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Hi Peter E
They look good, hopefully worth the wait. Are they different sizes ?
Not sure if you are into the firmware yet but Marlin have a new release candidate which includes several enhancements that I would think are worth having. Released on 1st December available from https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin (download the zip). The configuration and adv configuration files contain more information and many more helpful links.
Looking forward to your next steps
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
The two idlers are the same size (20 tooth) as the drivers to make sure I don't get any unwanted angularities introduced.
Thanks for the info about the firmware. As soon as the mechanics are completely assembled and the electronics is wired I will dive into that as well.
BR
/Peter
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Evening All,
I have finally got the missing printed parts, this time they turned up in red so I will paint a few bits black to match what I already have.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-46.jpg)
The missing parts were - from left:
- The left end of the X movement
- The distance piece between the extruder and the carrier
- The distance piece/securing plate for the extruder head
- Three end stop holders.
It is only the X end part I will paint, the other ones will probably keep the red colour for contrast.
As can be seen on the parts on the right, they are printed with a "skirt" to make them stick better to the glass plate on the build table. The skirt is easy to remove afterwards.
Interestingly, the red parts are much better fused at print time, compared with the black parts I had. It seems like the colour is a factor to consider as it affect both temp and print speed according to my friend who printed them.
Personally I will use PLA for my parts instead of ABS. PLA is supposed to be easier to handle but that will show once I get up and running.
Right now it is X-mas preparation time so no shop time in sigt. Have to wait until after the 25th to see if I can get more things done.
/Peter
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X-mas eve done (we have our main day in Sweden at the 24th), and everyone is happy and satisfied. :thumbup:
So today it is much more calm and relaxed. Managed to adjust what I needed on the X-movement, The toothed belt fitted and everthing in place in the frame.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-47.jpg)
Sometimes it is very useful not to final assemble at the first go. It turned out that I had accidently placed the X-movement motor to the right instead of to the left as it should be :palm:
Got the new bits printed but in red this time. So took the chance to use them to contrast all the black bits just for fun. Now the X-movement is complete and also parallell the the build board on the Y-movement. Everything moves with ease without binding anywhere. Time to fit the end stop switches and start the electronics work!
BR
/Peter
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Great project write up Peter. Just a thought as I like the red - If you leave them red will it print faster? Like Red cars go faster? :nrocks:
All looking very good,
Congrats and,
Thanks for posting.
John B
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He he, yes red makes it print faster :lol: :lol: :lol:
Joke aside, thank you very much for cheering me on. I enjoy the build and hope you all do as well.
BR
/Peter
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Good Evening All,
Today I bought a PC power supply for the printer. The one I had only delivered 15A DC max on the +12V line so it was under requirements. Need another 5 to be sure.
It was not very expensive, I think about 45£ or thereabouts.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-48.jpg)
Back home and into the shop it was time for "unboxing" and opening the PSU with some expectations.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-49.jpg)
I am following these instsructions from the REPRAP site;
http://reprap.org/wiki/Choosing_a_Power_Supply_for_your_RepRap (http://reprap.org/wiki/Choosing_a_Power_Supply_for_your_RepRap). They seem to be good and Now I am on my way intot he unknown. Will stop at this point because I want to be less tired so I don't make un-necessary mistakes. It would be bad if I blew a new PSU that I have forfitted the warranty on by opening it.
Story continues tomorrow .....
/Peter
PS,
Just had to add a comment as I got a question from a Swedish forum I am also posting on ...
If one reads further down the linked document it is possible to avoid opening the PSU to maintain warranty if so desired. But I still wanted to limit the "tail" of cables to a minimum so choose to open and cut out not wanted bits.
So there is actually two ways to go using a PC PSU, it is up to the user. Anyway, the choice of a PC PSU is quite economic compared with other types, at least I find it so.
DS
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Hi Peter E
Good to see your progress to a very smart machine. I have modded other pc atx power supplies for general use with good success. On mine I have mounted the 5v load resister inside the case where the fan can cool it, and then used a terminal block on the outside to expose the voltages generated, removing the atx connectors. This seems to give maximum flexibilty of use.
You appear to making really good progress with a very smart machine. Looking forward to seeing the results of your hard work with the first plastic prints.
Best Regards
picclock
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Nice progress on the build. The end is almost in sight. I can almost smell the molten PLA already. Can I ask why you chose to buy an ATX power supply rather than get one of those CCTV / LED power supplies? A 12V 30A supply costs only £17.69 and it comes ready to plug and play - no mods needed.
-
picclock,
First of all, thank you very much for nice comments!
I will pick up your tip on both the 5V load resistor placing, and to fit a terminal block on the outside of the PSU housing, very good ideas both of them!
nrml,
The answer to the choice of a PC ATX PSU instead of a CCTV/LED unit is simply that I didn't find one as I was looking around. The ones I did find cost way more than about 18£ here in Sweden and none was to find on flea bay currently, had I found one that would have been the choice.
On the other hand, using the PC ATX PSU I automatically solved the mains switch and power receptacle matter.
I wish all readers a happy new year with many interesting builds of all kinds!
BR
/Peter
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Happy new year to all! :beer:
Starting out this year with a question ...
picclock; On your picture of the rear of the PSU I tried to compare your setup with what I understand from the description I use and my PSU. The white cable to the far right, what is that one used for?
(http://madmodder.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10954.0;attach=27222;image)
For the rest it looks like you have (from left to right):
- Ground
- +12V
- Ground
- +12V
- +5V
- Ground
- +3.3V
- PSU On
- Ground
- ??????
Quite similar to my setup which turned out as below:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-50.jpg)
I made a small label strip beneath just as a reminder of which is which and I think you can see which will be which on mine. There are actually two different +12V outlets on my PSU at 20A each :headbang: so I don't have to divide one into two.
Furthermore, I will enter the cables from within the box to the topside of the terminal block so the consumers will be let out from below. I think that will make it easier to keep the cabling along the bottom of the machine later on. I will of course fit the cables for the consumers before fitting the complete PSU to the machine to simplify connections.
There is a difference between the two in that you have chosen to have a 3.3V connection point (orange cables) outside the box whereas the description I use does not include that. Is your choice just due to not wanting to leave the possibility out and that the mod is a general one, or anything else? Just curious to know before not including it myself.
BR
/Peter
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Well thinking long and hard and looking at what the manufacturer had chosen as suitable, I found that two strands/cables were judged to be enough for 12V 20A. A quick check with the 24VOLT.eu site told me that it was quite OK. So I could use that as template for the rest of the setup. The site turned out to be quite useful and the link is here: http://24volt.eu/kalkylator_kabelarea.php (http://24volt.eu/kalkylator_kabelarea.php). Click the UK flag to change to English.
I also decided to include one single 3.3 V connection on the outside to be prepared for any circumstances appearing. Had therefore to change the label so the rear of the PSU now looks as follows:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-51.jpg)
But it is not yet possible to put the lid back on - of course the load resistor for the +5V line was not in my store so have to buy it next week ...
While waiting for that to turn up, it is high time to try to understand the electronics setup and with the following walkthrough of the bits I hope to get some feedback if I am off track so to say.
The base is an Arduino Mega 2560:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-53.jpg)
It is fed using the USB connector to the left at loading and setting up time.
When done, the USB connection can be removed as the control board called RAMPS is to be fitted as a piggy-back board on top of the Arduino board. This contains the controls for stepper drivers, end stops, extruder heater, hotbed, etc.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-54.jpg)
The USB cable is not required as we connect the two +12V lines to the lower left for the two circuits.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-55.jpg)
Thereby the Arduino board below seems to be fed from the RAMPS board. at least it looked like that when inspecting the connections.
Then add the SMART-adapter for he display board on top of the RAMPS board to the right.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-56.jpg)
Now we can attach the display board with it function selector in the SMART-adaptor connectors (quite short cables between those - hmmmm).
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-57.jpg)
And finally, five small stepper driver boards is fitted on top of the RAMPS board. I placed one of the five in the upper row to the left.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-58.jpg)
This is supposed to be a job to be done with caution as if the stepper boards are turned the wrong way there is a risk for the whole setup to blow, all the way from the Arduino and upwards!
So, this is what I can see from just looking at the parts, is this correct? Is there a way to ensure that the stepper drivers are fitted correctly, I mean something particular to note at assembly time?
Now back to think about the best place for the control display .....
/Peter
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Hi Peter E
Happy new year to you to :beer:
Your PSU looks very neat, certainly smarter than mine. I think the white lead is -12V, it was just put together as a general additional bench supply for various project testing.
I have been running running temperature rise tests on my stepper drivers and you really do need a fan for cooling them. I thought I might be able to get away without as I'm using 24v but it won't work for reliable operation. My chips trip at 150C and without a heatsink on top I was reaching just over 130C chip temp with an ambient of 11C (measured with infrared thermometer on chip surface at 75C). Worst thing is this is for a single driver at 1.4A. So very much on the edge. The twin driver z axis will likely dissipate 3x as much driving at 1.3A each so for continuous use good heatsinking needed. I have designed pcbs for the drivers you are using but they were never expected to dissipate so much. Problem is if one stepper shuts down for only a fraction of a second print is ruined. So to sum up, forced cooling essential if you want good reliability.
When you start testing, ensure that you have bed and head thermistors connected or Marlin will shut down with ERR MINTEMP but the screen will continue to show normal operation. I have flagged this as undesirable/misleading behaviour with Marlin who indicate that the message will be changed to show the system has halted.
Good luck with your testing and further progress.
Best Regards
picclock
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This will test your steppers and drives , match the baud rate and they shoud turn , I can't get my software to see my shield says my encoders are wrong , but they turn so I know it's correct .
-
picclock,
Thanks a lot! Ah, -12V, that one i did leave out this time.
Interesting findings about the temp issues for the stepper drivers. Must make sure I can arrange something useful for extra cooling. It also sounds that some sort of airflow guidance would be useful to ensure good cooling. Have to think about that.
Yes, I will have thermistors connected both to the heatbed and the extruder nozzle.
chipenter,
Thanks for the code! Must try that at starting-up time.
In the meantime and while waiting for bits I have made a mock-up from some styrene bits I had laying around. Thought I might make it presentable at least. I know I will not be able to print myself for some time yet and the display is needed before that. The top side looks like this: ...
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-59.jpg)
... and the bottom side like this.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-60.jpg)
Nothing complicated but good enough to test both where the panel is best fitted and if there should be any extras like storage for SD cards or the like.
/Peter
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Hi Peter E
If you are just waiting for the resistor to arrive for the 5v load, you can easily use a car light bulb. These give off a deep orange glow and can look cool !! :thumbup:. Any light bulb will do (probably 10W minimum) though I'm not sure if the very small lower wattage interior lights would work. Because it will work off of 5v it should last forever (well, as long as the psu :med:).
Marlin gives you the ability to check the motors. Just go to the prepare menu, select autohome (won't work without that - bug in marlin I think) then select move axis and the distance, and rotate the jog control to see the motor move. You can't check extruder or z axis with just Marlin (if so I've just not found it ). Using octoprint (octopi even) gives me complete wireless control of all the axis and the extruder, even from my phone (must get smaller fingers).
I have had to do all the other stuff so I can work out where to drill the mounting holes in the granite base - so its all got a bit out of order for me. Still, nice to know it will all work Ok.
Good luck and good progress.
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Thanks for comments, very useful!
I looked at the light bulb idea but to my surprise found that it would be much more expensive than waiting for the resistor :bugeye: so it will be a resistor.
Good to know that there are means to check the drives already in the program. Will do that when all is going. That about wireless control also seems very interesting! Must look further into that as well.
We are not meeting any particular deadlines I think, so if some steps take a little longer than intended I don't think it really matters. What matters much more is that it will be as intended and tought out in the end!
So, while waiting for bits I have made a mockup of the "box" for the display - yes, I know it looks horrible but it is a mockup! :med: Anyways, one thing to remember is that the slot for the SD memory is at the left side of the display and that have to be accessible with ease regardless of where the thing is placed.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-62.jpg)
So, now to where to place it? To me there are four possible positions on the machine, the question is which is the best one????
No 1 - At the upper left corner of the portal
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-61.jpg)
This has the advantage of short distance to connect to the electronics, the downside is that I have to stretch across the machine even while it moves.
No 2 - At the baseplate to the left of the build board
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-63.jpg)
This has the advantage of being easy to access and to handle SD-cards, the downside for me is that it is to the left as I normally use my right hand.
No 3 - At the center of the baseplate in front of the build board.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-64.jpg)
Advantage, easy access and easy to handle SD cards. Really a quite OK position. The possible downside would be if it is in the way of work when removing built items from the board?
No 4 - At the baseplate to the right of the build board.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-65.jpg)
This is the easiest place for me - I think - with easy access and easy handling of SD cards. But it have to be placed in front of the build board to avoid hiding the SD card access.
All four positions have their advantages and downsides. Many I have seen are placed where can be done due to cable lengths I think, and others place it where seems fit and fixes the cables to suit. If placed on top of the portal I think it should be skewed a bit so the panel faces the user standing in the middle. If placed on the baseplate, the display should be tilted like in the images to be easy to read and avoid un-necessary light reflections.
I would like to get some input on this before I finally decide, I have an idea but don't want to bias any answers and thoughts. Just general comments are good as this is a small usability test.
BR
/Peter
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Still no thoughts??? Ah well let's carry on then ...
Today I made a smallish thing that needed special attention. Anyone tried to find M4x60 screws? Hard to find? at least they are in Sweden! It seems only a few companies stock them and sell over the net at insane prices :loco:
Only one thing left to do = make your own! Two small bits of the leftovers of the 8mm smooth stainless rod was drilled, threaded M4, cut to length, and given a screwdriver slot thereby making up two screw heads. With a suitable piece of all-thread the sought-after screws are there to an immensly lower price and they get exactly as long as you want/need :D
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-66.jpg)
The all-thread is secured with a drop of Loctite and we have a screw. Now the extruder is in place:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-67.jpg)
Next is to fit the extruder head and the feed something that will include some more special bits as it seems.
/Peter
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Have had some long metric screws from here :
http://www.a2stainless.co.uk/M4-x-0-70mm_B22V22.aspx
Even got M4 x 100mm
Just A2 cap screws. Only know a few places in UK that do long machine screws in similar lengths but they only do 100's :(
as you say at insane prices. ( particularly if you only want a few ...)
Dave
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Hi PeterE
Good to see your further info. The M4 screw looked very smart. Do you not have allthread/studding that you can use for long fasteners? just seems a lot less effort to use that. Loved the display case mockup. If you had a 3d printer you could print one of those :lol:
Its a nuisance needing stuff to build the printer. I have bent up a rather poor fan shroud for cooling the drivers out of aluminium, all the while thinking what a waste of time as I will replace it with a printed one at the earliest opportunity (or when I get round to it :hammer: ).
Keep up the good project log.
Best Regards
picclock
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Bluechip,
So the same goes for you in UK. Odd sized = very expensive and few suppliers. In my case I only need two.
picclock,
The "stem" of the screws are made from pieces of a metre long M4 allthread even though it does not show on the blurry image, sorry.
The mockup of the display case is of course being targeted for a print later on, but now I need something for protection and to find out if any mods are desireable, swiveling or tilting foot perhaps, or anything else that might come in handy.
Well nuisance or not I think the need for making things on the way as they are discovered is one of the temptations/challenges to solve and also a part of the effort to develop a well functioning machine with precision from everyday bits.
A thing here and a bit there will make good results. The biggest difference so far I have found is that most of the fasteners were designed for imperial system as far as I can see. Re-designing for metric did show a few misses, like the long M4's for ex. Also there were countersinks for nuts at the back that were dimensioned for M3 nuts! In my opinion M3 would have been too thin for the application. I guess such differences comes from differently sized standard imperial measure components versus metric ones.
I'll be back as soon as I get some more done.
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
If the nut recesses are M3 you can likely bodge it by placing an M4 nut over the opening and applying a soldering iron to the nut to melt the plastic, allowing a tight fit. The excess plastic can be trimmed after its cooled.
Keep up the good work
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Thanks for the idea, did not think of that, and while very useful I am a little reluctant to do it with the whole thing assembled and in place.
I solved it in another way. I opened up the through-hole to match the 4mm countersink and used that to broach the six-sided hole into a round one suiting the nut much better. Careful and slow work and it all went well. But I will keep it in mind for later bodges.
Thansk again!
/Peter
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Peter If you need a metal printer, You likely have on MIG printer (i.e. welder)
If you have 3axis cmc mill, a little scrap and you have trial printer. Good luck tom
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Hi tom37,
You are quite right about that. There are just a few but's and if's involved as well.
Using a MIG welder will require a good electrical and electromagnetical separation of the weld voltage and current, from the three-axis movement voltage and current. On top of that the MIG nozzle is quite stiff and heavy as it is adapted for hand movement, so the re-design would be very hefty, but yes, the functionality is there.
Converting a CNC mill to 3D-printing, well that is a lot easier as it more or less "just" requires an extruder head clamped on the mill Z-axis and that extruder can very well be a REPRAP one. The downside here is that I don't have a CNC mill - but yes, the functionality is there. I could even think of a solution to have a special attachment for the plastic extruder so that it can be mounted using the CNC mills normal tool fixing means, then change from mill to print is just a minutes job.
Well, we'll see where it goes. It is fun testing and trying new things. Thanks for your thoughts :thumbup:
/Peter
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We use our CNC router for welding...
Here's the TIG head:
We also use it for stud welding, although I just realised that we don't have a video of that. Here's the welder when we first got it.
It did take a bit of sorting out to eliminate earth loops and capacitive coupling. But we use these setups commercially.
PK
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Great stuff :thumbup:
Looking forward to the CNC stud welder - are you automating the loading into the collets?
I have this little hand held stud welder that works a treat:
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10358.0.html
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PK, thanks for showing! As far as I could see, the TIG nozzle was mounted to the ordinary machine spindle. Is it clamped around the outside or held by a collet?
This looks very mucxh like you could also fit a similar attachment for 3D-printing using ABS or PLA, it is just the extruder part that needs fixing.
Really a multi-putpose machine!
/Peter
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......This looks very mucxh like you could also fit a similar attachment for 3D-printing using ABS or PLA, it is just the extruder part that needs fixing.......
Peter - you could do it but the I think the slower traverse speeds and acceleration limitations in most CNC mills/routers would make it a very slow 3D printer.
Dave
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Hi DMIOM,
Yes, probably. There is a great speed difference in ball screw and toothed belt movements, not to say power differences.
But principally it should work of course.
/Peter
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A fiddly bit done at last.
I worked with the extruder a little more today and was looking over the bits prior to assembly. I got this extruder head and it has a PTFE tube connector in its top end. Unfortunately, that will foul with my extruder body so time to re-think this.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-68.jpg)
The PTFE tube connector was unscrewed to see more. It turns out that the thread is a 1/8"-27 NPT and not the more common M6x1. A quick look in my tapping dies drawer revealed a proper die. Good.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-69.jpg)
The hole in the extruder head is quite deep and if I don't put anything to guide the filament, I think I am in for some problems. Some measurements gave a base for a small adapter to fit in place.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-70.jpg)
Without the PTFE-tube connector I also tested the extruder head collar fit in the base of the extruder body. Hmmmpf, the collar was a tad too large in diameter, but not more than a couple of strokes with a file couldn't correct.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-71.jpg)
A new test fit showed that the collar went in quite a bit, in fact a little over 1 mm more than its own height. New info for the adapter then.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-73.jpg)
So, the adapter need to compensate both for the removed PTFE Tube connector as well as creating a washer to make the extruder head stand proud of the extruder body about half a mm or so for clamping purposes. This is how it turned out:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-72.jpg)
The thin stem is entering the hole in the extruder body to further guide the filament to the extruder head from the feeder. The coned end is stuck into the extruder head and guides the filament properly down to the hot end so there should now be way less risk for filaments to mis-behave during printing. The adapter is screwed in place using the 1/8-27 NPT but nothing more than finger tight is necessary since it will be pinched by the clamp.
And here we have the whole assembly before fitting to the X-carrier. It is easy to see that the extruder head is really clamped to the body and there will be no backlash or wobble anywhere in that setup as far as I can see.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-73-5.jpg)
With this the extruder is now complete apart from electrical connection(s). Starts looking quite OK now.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-74.jpg)
The the last bit to fix is to make a new fitting for the PTFE tube connector. It must be placed above the filament feed screw but there is not much meat to fit it.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-75.jpg)
I have ideas and will try them out.
I'll be back!
/Peter
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Evenin' All,
The load resistor finally showed up and was fitted. I put a paper below to show how I did. Solder close to the "body" and then a smallish piece of heat-shrink tubing to avoid un-necessary accidents.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-76.jpg)
Then to avoid having something bouncing around inside the box I tied the resistor to the mesh with a couple of tie-strps just like picclock showed earlier. Simple and effective and the resistor get some cooling air flow.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-77.jpg)
Then on with the lid and the fan and the PSU is done.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-78.jpg)
What is the proper place for this thing in or on the printer? My thought says put it on the left rear. That means that the electronics can be placed above the PSU and I can easily re-use the "left-overs" cables to suit.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-79.jpg)
The last picture also shows that the mains connection cable enters the PSU above the switch, which I think don't look very well from a usability perspective.
I am thinking like if I flip the PSU over and make a largish hole in the left triangle stiffener the cable and the switch have much more natural positions. That in turn would mean that I will not induce any un-necessaery cooling air streams around the build plate and thus limit the risk for bad prints.
Will think a bit more on that. To make a hole in the side will not geopardize the structural stability that much so it ought to work. Hmmm, a large hole or a grid with suitably sized holes? :scratch:
Any thoughts???
/Peter
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If you fit the wire fan cover over the hole or holes and use longer self tappers it will also fix the psu .
-
Very good idea chipenter, many thanks for the input :thumbup:
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Hi there,
Please forgive me if you know this but a wire finger guard has much less flow resistance than a panel of sheet metal with lots of holes, even if the unobstructed areas are the same.
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Hi Pete W,
No need to forgive, even if I did know. :beer:
The effect comes from the wire profile itself.
I am going to use chipenters idea and move the finger guard to the outside of the fram and at the same time secure the PSU to the frame wuth the guard screws. Will look neat and tidy.
BR
/Peter
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Some work done to make a largish hole in one of the side triangles. I decided that the best side would be right under where I put the graphic display which means the left side seen from the front of the machine. A 120mm hole becomes quite big :zap: but we do want as good path for the air stream as possible.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-80.jpg)
I added a strip of the same ply using both screws and glue to avoid geopardizing the structural stability of the diagonal side. Now I am at it to clean up the mess after making the hole.
It also turned out that the screws that hold the finger guard also holds the fan itself in place so i decided to use only the two lower screws to secure the PSU to the fram. That should be good enough.
Then one more little bit must be done before starting to clutter the machine up with cabling. A small bracket for the PTFE filament guide tube on top of the extruder. The base design is not made for such a thing, but I found a way to include it.
Then there will be some days with sanding and painting to hide the worst mess-ups from hole making.
/Peter
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Since it is weekend I got some more done to the printer.
The filler had dried nicely so on with the first coat of paint to hide the worst blemishes :-)
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-81.jpg)
The PSU is placed a bit from the board as the paint is wet.
Now on to the smallish bracket for the holder for the PTFE-tube that willguide the filament to the feeder on the extruder. It looks like below when placed on its "back".
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-82.jpg)
Two tabs with M4 holes wil hold the bracket in place by using the long screws/threaded rod that will hold the pressure springs for the feeder.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-83.jpg)
The tabs are pushed down into the nut pockets and then the bracket is placed flat and securely in place.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-84.jpg)
Finally, the mount for the PTFE tube is screwed in place into the larger (1/8" NPT) hole and the filament is nicely guided straight into the feeder.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-85.jpg)
Weekend job done!
/Peter
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Getting closer to the end of the mechanical and woodwork. The PSU is in its final place and secured with two stainless sheet metal screws 4.8x20mm through the side triangle and into the finger protection on the fan.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-86.jpg)
Before fitting the PSU I added the cables I will need and for now leave the cable tail until the rest of the electronics is in place.
The central unit - the Arduino - will get its place between the top of the PSU and the top of the portal.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-87.jpg)
The picture shows more cables on their way. The set from the extruder and the ones from the stepper motors. I cannot do very much more before the Arduino is properly loaded and all applicable drivers installed which is the next step in the build. Well, apart from assembling the heated bed of course.
/Peter
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Its looking good ,I have just got my Arduino sorted , some hard learned tips don't change anything compile it first , that way any error messages are something you have done , and leave the com port as 0 in config h , I am using Marlon and Repetier as it has a setting for cnc router in printer settings .
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chipenter,
Thanks for the tips, very useful! :thumbup:
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
Back from hols now. Re marlin configuration and configuration_adv header files. Editing these is easy, but its also very easy to make errors :scratch:. IMHO the best way to edit them is to use an external editor, like programmers notepad or Ultraedit. These programs display the comments in the file in a different colour to the active parts of the file, making it easy to see which options are enabled. Before editing make a copy of the files and leave in the marlin directory. That way if things go south its easy to retrieve an earlier version. You can do this in windows by right clicking the header file, then selecting copy, then right clicking again and selecting paste. Windows will then helpfully put ' - copy' after the file name. I generally amend this to something more useful. It can be very informative to insert comments near the top of the file to indicate the state of play. As long as the line begins with a double backslash it will be ignored by the compiler. For multiline comment sections use /* to begin and */ to end.
Forgive me if this sounds a bit patronizing, but I had many years teaching this stuff at a technology college, so feel free to ignore.
For the Arduino environment its best to keep the path lengths as short as possible. I installed Marlin to C:\Firmware\Marlin.
Hope this makes things a bit easier
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Have been on a work trip for a few days so read this when back. Thanks for the tips, I will set the electronics up together with my son who is computer science educated at university level :thumbup: I need his help to make sure I do things right, and I think he will find it fun just because, if you know what I mean.
We will hvae a good time to make this fly.
/Peter
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Got some extra time in the shop today as I was off work after the business trip. This meant I could start with the electronics and load the Arduino with its programs. I enrolled my university-educated computer knowledgeable son as extra support for the program handling. He is more well versed than I am and thus good to have close for questions etc.
The Arduino, the central unit, will be placed above the PSU as shown before. Now it begins to get more complete with the rest of the boards and some cabling.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-88.jpg)
Here we can see the RAMPS board on top of the Arduino board, and the display adapter on top of the RAMPS board together with the five stepper drivers. Then all the different smaller and larger boards are assembled.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-89.jpg)
The driver boards must be fitted so the little trim potentiometer is "pointing" towards the display adapter to be correct. If not they will burn and probably take the rest of the electronics with them.
To be able to set everything up it is also necessary to assemble and mount the heatbed. According to recommendations on the reprap pages I will use a piece of cork sheet as heat insulation below the heatbed. (This is a piece from an IKEA set of cork place mats cut to fit the heatbed size.)
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-90.jpg)
To make room for connections I made a cut-out on one of the edges, and then cut off the corners for the leveling screws.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-90-1.jpg)
Connect power supply cables and indicating LEDs on the heatbed. I use 12V DC for mine, so I will connect +12V DC to terminal 1 and -12V DC to terminals 2 and 3. A 1 kOhm resistor is soldered onto the board as is two LEDs. The LEDs are fitted in opposite directions to be able to signal whatever polarization is used. All according to instructions on reprap.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-91.jpg)
The LEDs and the resistor is fitted to the underside of the heatbed to enable the glass plate to be flush with the upper side of the heatbed. The LEDs must have sufficiently long legs to be possible to bend to be seen outside the heatbed edge.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-92.jpg)
The last component on the heatbed is the thermistor. I used a small blob of heatconducting paste to get a good thermal connection. I only needed the smallest amount and this still can be used for a lot of things.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-93.jpg)
To avoid loose cables and to secure the thermistor I used a piece of metal tape.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-94.jpg)
Then all electrical parts are in place on the heatbed. Here it is turned over on its proper side on top of the cork sheet.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-95.jpg)
I am thinking of how to fix the cork sheet to the heatbed, Glue is one way and some strips of the metal tape another. I will probably start out with some metal tape strips as this will make it easier to do service later on.
So far so good. Tomorrow it is time to make some anchors for the heatbed leveling screws with their springs. Then to fit the heatbed and cables to the build plate base ply.
Today's part done!
/Peter
-
Does the psu run warm? If so the Arduino should be below not above.
(This is the industrial computer support part of me speaking from 30 years fixing things where the designer didn't think!)
-
Hi Andrew,
Thank you for the info, very useful!
To be true I actually don't know yet ... haven't got the thing completely up and running.
Have tried to avoid heat from the PSU affect the electronics by having the air stream from the PSU fan to draw from the rear of the PSU and out through the side of the frame (can be seen above). That should avoid a direct air flow heat at least,
Then I have heard that the stepper drivers may become quite hot and thus require additional cooling by their own fan. This is something I will have to find out as the whole contraption starts working ;-)
/Peter
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Hi peterE
Looks like your going great guns. I've just finished glueing the cork sheet to the back of the bed heater. Good to hear your son is helping - father son thing can be good. I measured temp rise of 104C with small heatsink on z driver. Made larger heatsink. Will update blog with piccys when I get a chance. Good to see your progress.
Best Regards
picclock
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Thanks picclock!
Oh, what kind of glue do you use to stick the cork to the heaater? and what kind of glue/tape do you use to stick the heatsinks on the stepper drivers?
BR
/Peter
-
Hi PeterE
I had some 'duff' lowish performance silicon heatsink plaster lying around which I used to glue the cork. Halnziye Hy910 is the code. Seems to be OK. rated for extended temperatures. Its soft enough for removal even when fully cured. Would have used JB Weld for permanent fixing at elevated temperature but you would have to destroy the parts to remove it. For temperature tests on drivers I used Akasa thermal adhesive tape. After measuring and test I replaced the tape with AG TermoPasty for a permanent fix. Measurement was made with a thermocouple on the underside of the driver chip pcb, so pretty accurate. For tape I am using Kapton tape for its high temp properties.
However, there are some areas of concern. The thermistor measures the temp of the pcb, not the temp of the glass surface. Whilst it is easy to set the pcb temp, the temp at the top of the glass will show great variation. Drafts from movement will help conduct the heat away, the thermal resistance between glass and pcb is likely a variable high number. So not exactly precision. However, it may be adequate for this application. Short of packing the space in between with thermal grease and hoping little improvement seems possible. Will do further measurements when setup and may modify it to take a therocouple sensor attached (probably clipped) to the printing surface of the glass.
Re Z axis movement. How have you solved the angular movement/change of height issue with those couplers. I have two but am not sure about using them. My current thinking is plastic/rubber sleeving, alowing the threaded rod and motor spindle to touch, with the rod end rounded, so point contact. The sleeve will allow small angular errors with consistent radial position. Clamps at motor and rod ends will ensure no slippage. Have you any thoughts on this matter :scratch:
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Thanks for the info re glues. I used a contact adhesive to try to glue the cork to the heatbed. I know it is on the borderline temperature-wise, but it is a try-out. As yo8u perhaps saw on the previous images, I have used thermal paste for PD processors to connect the heatbed thermistor to the bed and the glass plate will be flat on (at least from start .....)
The heatbed is now attached to the plywood baseboard on the Y axis.
I started with a piece of the left-over stainless 8mm bar.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-96.jpg)
From that bar I made three top hat-like bushings that I glued into the ply at the proper places for the screws with the springs.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-97.jpg)
To avoid having to make a 3mm thread all the way through the 13 mm bushing I drilled it out about half way from the bottom. Threading went very nice and then the bushings were glued in place in the ply board.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-98.jpg)
With the heatbed in place I started with how to lay the cabling so it does not get itself entangled in the machine. A combination of small plastic cable guides (the white ones on the base board), and spiral tubing, I think I got a setup that may work.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-99.jpg)
The white cable guides are good for just laying the cables inside to stay out of the way. They are also well protected from mechanical happenings.
The cables from the X-axis motor and its end switch got their own piece of plastic spiral tubing. The cables are held together in the end close to the motor and the spiral then enters a 10mm hole in the portal to guide them towards the electronics on the back side. Did this as it turned out that the length of the cables were is some cases just a tad short compared to what could have been for ease.
I also did the same with cables for the extruder carrier with all of its cables The heatend, temp sensor, fan, and extruder motor. They got an own 10mm hole right beside the first one.
This way I can secure the cables on the rear side nice and tidy and no cables will run over the portal which may obstruct the filament guide tube.
While re-reading your post I noticed that I did not answer your question at the end, sorry. I used two aluminium connector pieces which are slit in spiral form to allow angular differences between the Z axis motor and the threaded rod for the movement. You can see them on the image above right above the Z axis motors. So far I have not noticed any problems with that. The coupling is a standard part that was included in the mechanics kit I ordered. Since the motor and the threaded rod only have a fixed position at the motor mount, the other is at the nut for lifting the X axis movement and that point continuously moves depending on where in height the X axis is at the moment. So I think there are not much hat can go wrong angle wise.
When it comes to the end stops, I have chosen them to be placed as follows:
X axis - at the left hand side and the micr switch triggs against the stepper housing.
Y axis - at the left smooth bar triggering against the left bearing housing under the board.
Z axis - to the left, below the X axis motor mount triggering against the underside of the motor mount.
I have only used three micro switches so far but am thinking of using three more to definately define the both ends of the travel for all axis.
So far so good today.
/Peter
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Some more done this evening together with image no 100 in this build log :bugeye: (Gosh so many pictures to no real use :zap: :thumbup:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-100.jpg)
So, what's been done? Well nearly all cables had pre-mounted connectors so I started to fit each one to the RAMPS board. I found a useful assembly sketch here: http://reprap.org/wiki/RAMPS_1.4#Wiring (http://reprap.org/wiki/RAMPS_1.4#Wiring) A description that even I understood! :thumbup:
Started with the stepper cables in the centerline between the display cables. Next was the end stops then the tempsensor from the extruder. Last this time was the extruder heatsource (the two orange cables at the bottom of the RAMPS board.)
Still missing is the extruder fan connection as the cable length was too short and needs lengthening. Will remove that connector anyway as it will use the connection for extruder two (also meaning I can control on/off and runtime of the fan.) Finally the cables for the heatbed and its sensor, but I found the supply cables I bought is perhaps too stiff and after a rethink I will get some silicone cables instead. These cables must be as soft as possible to not restrict the movement of the heatbed un-necessarily.
Also waiting for some heatsinks for the stepper controllers. Will use the standard ones now, but will look at changing if they seem to run hot.
When all that electrics are done and some minor mechanical bits in place, it will be time to switch the contraption on for the first time - duck and cover time :zap:
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
Good to see your latest pictures and progress. Like the idea of tucking all the electronics behind the gantry. I presume you already have a fan/shroud sorted for cooling.
I noticed that there does not appear to be any cable strain relief / support for the extruder/head/sensor cables. Because this assembly is likely to whizz back and forth a few thousand times the metal in the wire will become work hardened and fracture, normally at the point where the insulation stops. It might be an idea for the cables in the spiroband to be clamped using a P clip or similar. One of the motor mounting bolts, or somewhere else nearby will do. That way the bend radius during movement will be much reduced and the cable will be supported by its insulation.
Looking really good so far. Keep up the good work.
Best Regards
picclock
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Thanks picclock!
A fan for the electronics is definately on the list, and a shroud to control the fan air stream too. Just haven't worked out placing and air flow directions just yet... :scratch:
The strain relief is going in, still to do, thanks for your ideas, will take those into account.
Also managed as smallish bit today. Changed the power feed cables for the heatbed from car audio quality to silicone quality. The silicone ones are at least three times as smooth and bendy as the car audio ones. I'll show the fitting of those in the next image series in a couple of days.
BR
/Peter
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Good Evening again,
Some more done tonight before some coffea and a short TV break interfered.
Added heatsinks to the drivers, connected the extruder fan and the heatbed thermistor. That means that all the electrics is done so now the look from rear is as below:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-101.jpg)
I made a partition between the PSU and the buildplate from a piece of plexi laying around. It does not show that clear on the image, but it is to protect the buildplate from air flow from the driver cooling fan that seems to be necessary.
So one of the last pictures from the rear of my printer. Here the plexi partition shows better. No risk that any cable is tangled up in a build.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-102.jpg)
Looking closely it is also possible to see how I placed the cables from the heatbed. They are first of all clamped to the underside of the buildplate and then a similar clamp at the base of the portal. The cables form a "U" with the opening towards the back. That should make the connection flexible enough to avoid un-neccessary breakages.
Over all the build kind of looks almost tidy in spite of being a DIY build.
Then turning the printer around to get a shot from the front.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-103.jpg)
Here I have placed the glass plate on teh heatbed and secured it using four paper clips. Works a treat! So, the remaining things to do is to make and fit a couple of cable clamps for the extruder cables and the X-movement cables.
That will finalize the mexchanical and electrical work. What still is missing is a holder of some sort for the roll of filament. That is something I intend to get at tomorrow.
All in all, it is closing in on the exiting first time run. It may happen during the weekend depending on what is planned by the rest of the family. My "little girl" - the now 25 years old school teacher - has finally found a place of her own (apartments are very scarce in Gothenburg these days) which may require me to do some "supporting activities". We will see.
/Peter
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Watching with interest here :clap: Can't wait to see the first parts (she's 25 - she can move herself ;-))
What sort of current do those little stepper drivers supply ?
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Hi Bill,
The first bits will probably appear either tomorrow or during next week. Have to finish the filament roll carrier first.
Sure she would most certainly fix the move herself, but don't tell her mother .... (because she would totally and with emphasis disagree) I was asked to support with some internal decoration jobs as some of the work that was done by a "craftsman" is really not up to any standard :hammer: I will take a couple of pictures when we get full access. The immediate stuff is to add some trimmings between floor and wall in the closet.
Up to about 2A but then they get really hot! I think picclock is a better person to ask that question as he has already measured that if I remember correctly.
BR
/Peter
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Sorry, no switch on this evening.
The rig for the filament bobin (roll) took a little longer than expected. It was one of those design as you go cases, and I had to do some pre-calculations to get it about right. Then it also needed some finish of course.
The filament carrier is in place.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-104.jpg)
The bracket fixing the carrier to the portal has a connector for the PTFE filament tube so the tube is secured in both ends.
I decided to give the carrier a bit of "design" as I wanted it to support and guide the roll to not fall off sideways.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-105.jpg)
It's all made of MDF this time, it does not need to be that strong.
On with the roll and thread the filament through the tube down to the extruder.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-106.jpg)
The filament is pulled out from the underside of the roll. I thought that would be the best as the angle towards the filament guide.
The roll stands on four simple ball bearings of skateboard type 8x22x7mm (IDxODxW). They are fitted to a shaft specially made for this purpose from material that was at hand. The brackets used are simple alu sheet items.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-107.jpg)
So the "fighting face" of the printer is done and now I can concentrate on getting the electronics to work.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-108.jpg)
Upcoming week will be interesting.
/Peter
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Sorry, no pictures today.
Have spent a few days reading up on the setup and calibration processes. I am still following the instructions here: http://www.dragonflydiy.com/2010/10/building-prusa-i3-printer-testing-and.html (http://www.dragonflydiy.com/2010/10/building-prusa-i3-printer-testing-and.html) as they turned out to be very good - for me at least.
So, I have assembled a little too much and have to unplug the stuff from the electronics board to do it properly. No harm done, I just see it as a test fit. The stepper drivers are supposed to be set to 0.40 to 0.45V DC at the trim potentiometer. That should obviously deliver around 1A to the motors and that should be enough according to the description. Driver temp etc should be in a good range.
When that is done each movement must be set up with end stops and all. First X, then Y, and finally Z. Following on with the extruder filament feed rate and the hotend temp control. The last thing will be the heatbed and its temp control.
I will split this into several days work due to other evening activities of varaious sorts.
/Peter
PS
At the end I want to make sure you don't get me wrong about the comment on my wife above. She really is a sweet and helpful person only wanting to help as far as she can. And in cases like the move of her youngest she just goes into overdrive in trying to help. So, my work here is actually more to calm her down a bit. I find it hard to describe this in a foreign language as my mother tongue is Swedish so I hope you bear with me.
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OK, printer switched on for the first time ever and nothing blew up :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
But, there were no measuring points at the specified position on the driver boards to set the voltage. The voltage of about 0.4V shall obviously be about equal to half the output current which is supposed to be 1 A or so. Since I couldn't measure I made the assumption that the trimmer is linear and with the wiper at half-way point I would arrive at that setting as well. I can always trim that later if needed.
Connected the X movement motor and end stop as per instruction and there were still no surprises. The electronics does not react though. :scratch: Connected the PC to the arduino board through the USB interface and started up the Pronterface application to set the movement. It connected to the printer nicely as expected and read a series of values like it should, but then ... an "Error=0" appeared obviously interrupting and stopping the startup sequence. :( What on earth is an error=0 :scratch:
Time to go through error messages .... :coffee:
But all in all it seems to start working slowly, we will see.
/Peter
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Hi Peter
FWIW the presets on my boards are far from 'linear'. The max current on mine is 2.5A, with 0.1 ohm resisters that corresponds to 1.25v top end. But the pot range is 0 to 3.3v. I think I read the pots for your drivers work the wrong way round, clockwise to decrease current.
Two things that may help. When it powers up the motors are disabled. Sending a home command or a motors on (M17) should sort it. Commands are listed http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code - not all are supported by Marlin.
Best Regards
picclock
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Aha, thanks picclock! :thumbup: Always tricky when having different suppliers. The G-code command list for Marlin is super!
The descriptions I use works very well and there are basically no differences from when they were written till today, but... something kind of tells me that the later verwsions of Pronterface and Marlin have been enhanced and nowadays include more functions than at the time of writing. :scratch: The "new" function for adding separate fans for double extruders is one of them. I simply have to use the descriptions as a base and go from there.
It may just be that I have to connect the two thermistors to get on with the settings. More to do today.
/Peter
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This is annoying :bang: From getting error 0 which is equal to no thermistor connected, to now get error MAXTEMP instead! :scratch:
Having read through a bunch of googled pages it seems to circle around the default setting of thermistor type in the Marlin firmware. As said it is set to type 0 but should be set to type 1. Also took the time to check the resistance and both was around 150 Ohm as measured. They are of type 100kOhm and that seems right so far.
The annoying thing is that I cannot proceed with the movement settings until these temp errors are fixed as the firmware shuts the board down for safety sake :bang:
Oh well, there is a day tomorrow as well. I will win over this one as well - some day.
BR
/Peter
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You can change to cnc router in printer settings that will disable the temp and extruder to check movement .
I should have said in Repetier Host .
-
Hi PeterE
Resistance of the thermisters at room temp should be around 100k @ 25C. If it is showing too hot likely a short, too cold likely open circuit. 150 ohms is too low and 150k too high unless its really cold where you are :-). If ambient is below 5C Mintemp error occurs and system stops. You will need to repower the system to restart. Are you disconnecting the thermisters to read the value?. If they are still connected you will get a low reading.
Best to try to sort this - it will have to done at some time, but if you get desperate, assuming you are using Marlin RC1_3, it can be fooled for debug purposes by enabling the following in configuration.h (around line 146 - just remove the forward slashes)
#define DUMMY_THERMISTOR_998_VALUE 25
#define DUMMY_THERMISTOR_999_VALUE 100
Obviously recompile and upload when done.
Are you going to use auto bed levelling?. I have been looking at the servo type for mine, where it will take measurements in different bed positions and adjust the head height accordingly.
Good luck with the fault finding.
Best Regards
picclock
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Thanks for useful input both Jeff and picclock! :thumbup:
As far as I have understood from more web surfing is that this is a very common exercise when starting up a new printer. One of the important steps seems to be to set the correct type of thermistor in the Marlin h-file. The value should be set to "1" but is by default set to "0". Changing that should take the activities a bit more forward.
My measurement of about 150 Ohm should of course be 150 kOhm, missed the scale setting on the DVM :palm: sorry. thermistors = OK.
Then on top of it all, I am doing this in my garage and it is not a warm place. It probably circles bewteen 4 to 10 Degree C. This doesn't help either. Perhaps time to move the printer indoors to a warmer area for the moment :scratch:
So, time to adjust G-codes in marlin - fingers crossed ....
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
If your workshop is that cold it would be best to change the mintemp values to prevent the mintemp error. Once this error occurs the system stops completely, even though the display looks normal. They are set @5C by default, so if you changed them to 1C that may help your situation. The max temps will also probably need to be increased if you are printing Nylon. From configuration.h around line 65.
// The minimal temperature defines the temperature below which the heater will not be enabled It is used
// to check that the wiring to the thermistor is not broken.
// Otherwise this would lead to the heater being powered on all the time.
#define HEATER_0_MINTEMP 5
#define HEATER_1_MINTEMP 5
#define HEATER_2_MINTEMP 5
#define HEATER_3_MINTEMP 5
#define BED_MINTEMP 5
// When temperature exceeds max temp, your heater will be switched off.
// This feature exists to protect your hotend from overheating accidentally, but *NOT* from thermistor short/failure!
// You should use MINTEMP for thermistor short/failure protection.
#define HEATER_0_MAXTEMP 275
#define HEATER_1_MAXTEMP 275
#define HEATER_2_MAXTEMP 275
#define HEATER_3_MAXTEMP 275
#define BED_MAXTEMP 150
May I wish you swift progress.
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi picclock,
Thanks for the info, I will include that. I got this link from a friend at another forum (model railroading in Sweden) and this instruction to set up the firmware is way superior to the one I started with:
http://solidutopia.com/marlin-firmware-user-guide-basic/ (http://solidutopia.com/marlin-firmware-user-guide-basic/)
It is clear that I have simply missed a fair number of settings and I will do a recompilation. I will include your temp limits due to shop temps.
I still think the journey has been satisfying anyway. Some troubles on the way makes one learn a lot about the equipment whatever it is, and being familiar with it helps in turn to get appropriate results.
We will see where this goes.
/Peter
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Just a small status update. A few days of other activities like a hard rock concert and a visit to some old dear frinds delayed any printer activities for two days.
Tried to use the instruction linked to above. Went from bad to worse unfortunately :bang: now the printer does not even react on connect command.
I must have set something wrong somewhere even though I ticked off the instruction step by step. I kind of get lost in those endlessrows of attributes without line breaks for each value. I may well have changed a value for another attribute because of that.
Ah well, will have another go at it this evening.
==== And the evening came ...
Got a very useful tip from my son, the computer wiz, that the things that sometimes makes files hard to read in Windows is due to lack of line breaks. There are two kinds of line breaks, the carriage Return (CR) and the Line Feed (LF), Windows only likes one of them and discards the other, so the .h-files obviously use the other :bang: There is though an OpenSource program - of course - called notepad++ that seems to be able to recognize both.
Downloaded the program and tested with one of the example files in Marlin and it becomes a whole different thing to edit files when they are readable! :ddb:
With a normal Windows Notepad it looks like this:
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-109.jpg)
... and using notepad++ it looks like this
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-110.jpg)
This makes ever so much easier to edit the files correctly. Must check the all the files as well. Thought it might be a useful tip.
BR
/Peter
/Peter
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Sorry guys, this build has ground to more or less a halt due to me not being friends with either Arduino or Marlin :bang: :bang:
I dawned on me the other day that the Arduino IDE tool actually was the tool to edit the files, and then I got a whole project instead of a single file .... (I have been doing things in complete opposite manner for years. Editing a single file using a good line editor (VI) and then compiling on command line. Simple and effective, but now - noooo.
Guess how many times I have had to unzip the downloaded set of firmware files due to me mashing one file or the other up :palm:
I will get some help from my computer-knowledgeable son and that will probably help but it will delay things for longer than expected.
BR
/Peter
-
Visual Studio 2015 does Arduino quite nicely and the Community version is free.
-
I have set Wordpad as defalt for Arduino and G-code files , or anything with wordwrap .
-
Thanks a lot for good tips both. Will remember those.
Will still try to use the Marlin/Arduino combination that I have but together with my son as two pairs of eyes see more bugs than one pair.
Also got tipped about this site that seems quite helpful for 3D printer setup. http://marlinkimbra.it/ (http://marlinkimbra.it/)
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
I am at the stage where I can home the axis and am preparing to do the thermal calibration. If I can offer any assistance let me know. My current configuration seems to work OK, although I have set the extruder temp to zero to allow me to calibrate the filament feed. You are welcome to a copy of the configuration files assuming you are using Marlin RC3. If I can be of any other assistance please post or pm me.
Best Regards
picclock
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Nice to hear (read) that your setup is coming together as planned. I think it is good to take enough time to do the initial setup and calibration work to get proper pints, otherwise one just gets annoyed by having to re-do that later.
Thank you very much for your generous offer! I will keep that in mind, but I have not given up hope yet to get it running myself. (Stubborn, me?!? Noooo :palm:) I have come to a point where the configuration file seems to be complete and is compiling properly. Last time I tried uploading I got another error at upload time, something about a ctrlD error or something similar. Have not had time to do anything about that this weekend as my youngest daughter is moving out - yessss :ddb: - the downside is that I missed the last step in the stairs at home while carrying a piece of furniture down and sprained my ankle :palm: I constantly get fooled by my new pair of glasses and short range depth sight is differfent with and without - sigh!
Anyway, I will get there I am sure, and if it still keeps protesting I will get in touch I promise.
BR
/Peter
-
Iff you get it to upload once it will give an error message the next time as the upload is in the Arduino memory , confused me to a few times .
-
Hi chipenter,
Aha, so that's why! That is something I have been thinking a bit about. A thing that is different between different hardware and applications. How does it react to repeated uploads? Is there an automatic write-over function, or do I need to empty a memory? Seems like I am close to this one.
Will have to study the behaviour of the Arduino a bit more. It is way different than a Raspberry Pie.
BR
/Peter
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A lot of reading done and new things learned, but still no activity from the printer. :bang:
It seems like there is some SW bit missing even though I have downloaded all that I think is supposed to be in place according to descriptions.
I even tried to make a configuration on the MarlinKimbra site and not even that one worked. The filed uploads all right (I think) but when I switch power on nothing happens and I cannot get the PC and printer/Arduino to connect. It says connecting ... but nothing happens, and the Pronterface SW does not open so I can manipulate the movements for calibration.
In a way I am stuck and have a hard time finding out why it does not work. I think I will reinstall all SW from start to see if that helps.
This is going to take a loooong time to get going. :palm:
-
Have you tried Repetier Host it comes with all the Python files to instal in one , in Marlin config h you need to set the board , port speed , end stops , pull up resitors and temps .
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Hi PeterE
With Marlin installed you should be able to control all the printer functions from the graphic display. No other connection to a computer/slicer or anything else is needed. The motors will only power up if you just tell it to home in Marlin. Only the Marlin firmware is needed to get this far - and in fact check out the whole machine. When you turn it on does the graphic display show any error messages. I got caught out with the mintemp message when a thermister was not connected, as once that message shows the whole system stops.
If the display is not working you likely have power supply issues. Generally, the display will come alive with just the power from a usb lead. No display likely means the ribbon cables are reversed.
Hope this helps
Best Regards
picclock
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Hi,
@chipenter; Thanks for the tip. I checked out the Repetier Host site and it looks interesting to say the least. I think also it is possible to install it in parallell to the Marlin on my PC for comparison sake. Think I will do that if not just for the learning curve of 3D SW varieties.
@picclock; You are right, the display is not working. I will try to reverse the cables to see if I have got them mixed up. The numbering is mostly hidden under the board connectors so it is really a bit of guesswork to get it right. After switching places I will get an answer.
The comment about power supply issues is also interesting. I have been thinking along that line as well. Everything uploads etc, but no other activity kind of suggests that. The fan in the PSU starts and I have 12 V DC on the lines to the Arduino so should work, but one thing annoys me. I can see that there are a number of bridging connectors and I wonder if any of those are placed on the wrong connectors. There is nothing described about that in the description for a "normal" setup, only if I want to either have a separate power supply to the Arduino PSU inlet together with the power to the RAMPS shield, or if I want to enable the PS_ON function.
Will try the simple bits first and see where goes.
Even though this is kind of frustrating, it is also very educative - both for me and my son. As it seems we will have use for this contraption as it start functioning :thumbup:
/Peter
Quick reply after an equally quick test. The display lights up when power si switched on. So does a red LED on the Arduino board which means that we have power. The display does not show any text or graphics, just an area where I think graphics will be displayed when everything is operable.
So first quick test gives some indication at least. Back tomorrow.
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It should be a green light on connection so something is not right .
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@ chipenter
My arduino board has red leds. The one nearest the print connector flashes to show the system running, and the one just behind is on permanently to indicate power. I had a very early board with one green led, but I fried it by shorting two pins together :-0
Best Regards
picclock
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Chipenter & picclock,
Yes there is surely something fishy going on. The green activity lights works well when connecting the PC through the USB port and clearly shows both being switched on and if I upload it blinks like --- yes.
The red LED in question is placed just inside the connectors to the RAMPS board on the left side about half way from the USB end. I can see it lighting through the RAMPS board.
Must try to figure out what it wants to tell.
Will try to install Repetier to see if I understand that one a bit easier.
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
I think we may have a slight misunderstanding. The red leds I was referring to are on the arduino board. It is likely these that you can see through the holes in the ramps board. The ramps board - well my one at least - has a green led at the green plug in connector end. It is only necessary to plug a printer usb lead into the arduino (with ramps attached) to power up a useable functioning display - no other power supplies or connections required. If the bed/head thermistors are not connected the system will halt with a MINTEMP error message. Either way the Marlin screen should be displayed and will continue to be so even if the system is halted. Basically the display will work with just the ramps/Arduino boards assembled together even with or without the motor drivers, thermistors or any other connections. Very first post of my build log shows a picture of this complete with MINTEMP error, as nothing connected.
I think I am as keen to see your printer working as I am to get my own finished :thumbup:. Good luck with the debugging.
Best regards
picclock.
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Hi picclock,
Oh, I understood. So, I decided to do some classical fault finding to see if the thing is burnt or not.
As I said, there are some LEDs are lit as they are supposed to.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Tooling/3d-printer/3Dprinter-111.jpg)
The ones to the left inside the red ring are the Tx Rx LEDs and they work admirably when something is uploaded.
The single one inside the red ring to the right is the Power ON LED and it is either red or orange. cannot tell through the RAMPS board (No, no hole it lights straight through the board!)
In the blue ring we find the reset button! (How can you place that to make it wind up under the board above without any chance to touch it but to remove the board????)
So it appears that the Arduino board is working as it should so far.
With Pronterface running on the PC using a USB cable I can get temp readings but nothing else.
The display is getting power as it lights up, but there is no text or graphics showing.
Then I also noted that the green LED on the RAMPS board (next to the extruder heater connection plinth) blinks twice at power up. So the RAMPS board also seem to work.
When I first uploaded a so called sketch I was able to get Pronterface to connect to the boards. That was when I understood that the temp sensors must be connected to be able to continue.
Then I probably made something odd in the next sketch trying to fix a setting, but from that point the program does no longer answer. I am starting to wonder if I have managed to crash the SW?
Will try to test further. Have installed Repetier on the PC and will do a sketch from there to see if it improves the situation.
Will be back for sure.
/Peter
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Hi Peter E
Think I might have sussed it from your description. Sounds like you have not got the correct display selected in configuration. H. The graphics display needs the u8glib library added to the arduino ide. Not sure of the exact config settings but will post them when I get back.
Written rather badly from my mobile.
Best regards
Picclock
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H PeterE
The relevent section in configuration.h is around line 720. This is the part you need to use. Ignore the white pcb bit. You will need to disable any other graphics settings. Once you have it working you can edit the click controller style in configuration_adv.h. If you want I will post my configuration files tomorrow.
Hope this helps
Best regards
picclock
// The RepRapDiscount FULL GRAPHIC Smart Controller (quadratic white PCB)
// http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapDiscount_Full_Graphic_Smart_Controller
//
// ==> REMEMBER TO INSTALL U8glib to your ARDUINO library folder: http://code.google.com/p/u8glib/wiki/u8glib
#define REPRAP_DISCOUNT_FULL_GRAPHIC_SMART_CONTROLLER
#define ENCODER_PULSES_PER_STEP 4 // Increase if you have a high resolution encoder
#define ENCODER_STEPS_PER_MENU_ITEM 1 // Set according to ENCODER_PULSES_PER_STEP or your liking
// The RepRapWorld REPRAPWORLD_KEYPAD v1.1
// http://reprapworld.com/?products_details&products_id=202&cPath=1591_1626
//#define REPRAPWORLD_KEYPAD
//#define REPRAPWORLD_KEYPAD_MOVE_STEP 10.0 // how much should be moved when a key is pressed, eg 10.0 means 10mm per click
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Thanks ever so much picclock. This more or less confirms that it is a SW issue rather than a HW one.
With your examples and suggestions I now have more than one way forward.
A - update the sketch I already have according to suggestions.
if that does not work;
B - Dump the existing installation I have and install a new one. My son found a useful example in wikipedia that looked more complete than my original one.
if that does not work;
C - Try the Repetier path.
I can also add that I had some problems when downloading all the files from the beginning. I was missing both python parts and the u8-thingy, parts that I have downloaded as I found their need.
Well tomorrow will be next step on the way.
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
Copy of known working files attached. You will have to amend the steps/mm settings for the axis and The Z axis endstop state if you wish to use attached configuration.txt file you will need to rename it configuration.h (unable to post .h files) . I called my machine Granite 3D, rename to your preference (Peter the Great ?? :med:). Even without any alterations it will allow testing of the setup. Just unzip the Marlin-RC1_3 file, rename the originial configuration.h file and replace with attached (in the marlin directory). Then connect arduino, open or double click the Marlin.ino file to open in the arduino editor. Select upload, have a cup of coffee while it compiles everything in sight, including, hopefully, the marlin sketch. Once its uploaded you should see the Marlin welcome screen - no need to power it, it will run from the USB lead.
Good Luck
Best Regards
picclock
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Marlin files hopefully !!
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Hi picclock,
Trial crowned with success! A very great thank you! :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Your files prooved that the SW I had installed was not complete or perhaps even faulty. Now the display shows nice info both running from the USB and from the PSU. This means that now I should be able to do the calibration from the display rather than having to re-upload for evey little adjustment.
So, now the setup work continues with the initial calibration of movements etc.
Again, A great thank you for all your help.
Btw, my printer's name will be the very un-glorious "Peter's Prusa i3 R"
BR
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
Glad I could help. Still think my name was better :wave:. The rest of it should be fairly straightforward. I've been sidetracked by domestic duties but hope to have more progress soon. Bought a large lidded plastic box for the filament and some reusable silica gel to keep it all dry, important with nylon.
Good luck with your first prints.
Best Regards
picclock
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picclock,
Yes, your printer name is certainly better, but names can be changed :med:
Got the MINTEMP error and suddenly remebered that I had disconnected the temp sensors :palm: Well, after connecting them it now is time to learn the display and its commands. Everything working so far. I can for example move the steppers through the panel :ddb:
Now Easter activities are coming up so teh workshop speed and activities will slow down due to that, but I will try to get a thing or two done anyway.
Happy Easter holidays everyone!
/Peter
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Some updates during easter holidays,
Building a machine like a 3D printer feels just like a hurdles race, a number of obstacles to pass on the way.
Got some very nice help from picclock with the software which took me forward a couple of steps.
Today I finally found time to mess around with the printer and dive into the electronics. I partially succeeded.
- The X axis movement works just like intended, some minor fixes and that can be ticked off.
- The Y axis is causing problems. It does not know what is forward or backward, it moves in sort of groups of steps, humms and tries to move both ways at the same time. End stops are not known to the Y axis, and it rarely gets close to it.
- the Z axis goes down, don't recognize the end stop to stop, sigh. I managed to get the Up movement working afte some time of fiddling but it moves with the speed of a snail.
A home position is only know to the X axis so far.
But it all still is a success - it moves even if it protests
I will not give up, but it will take very long to get this contraption in working order. Would probably have been faster to purchase a DIY kit instead of building all.
Anyway, I will keep at it but it looks like some time during summer vacation or perhaps in the autumn I will have it working as intended. I have not set a finish date for safety sake.
Please note, I don't want to even sound grumpy, even less be that, I just want to say that it is not solved in an afternoon. All knowledge gaining takes time and shall do so. I will get this contraption going no doubt about it and then you will see some prints ....
/Peter
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I have two diferent types of stepper motor , two are slitly longer than the outher three and I have to adjust the tiny pot on the driver board for each type outherwize it jitters , I also have to slow the feed rate for the longer ones but are more powerfull .
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Thanks for the info chipenter!
My motors are all of the same type.
The X axis one sounds and works like I expect a stepper to do. The same goes for the two Z axis motors who also work nicely toghether as expected.
The Y axis motor growls instead of humms so maybe I have to adjust the stepper controller with the pot a bit. Must check that. It may be that it has not enough power, but it has difficulties to run the whole length of the "track". Instead it goes a bit, stops and returns a biot, stops and gopes a bit etc, etc. All while growling and protesting as I see it. Could it be a cabling issue????
The extruder does not move at all - yet. Must check that pot as well.
So three out of five motors behave, and two misbehave and then differently.
The most odd thing is the odd behaviour of the Y axis motor and that puzzles me.
/Peter
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I adjust the pot with the motor running for smoothenes and power , only takes a small adjustment and you can hear the difference .
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Hi PeterE
The extruder motor is software trapped, so it will not work until head temperature high ~ 160C I think.
If you remove motor you can easily see how hard it is to move Y axis, and fix if required. You can also operate motor and check rotation and torque while it is removed. If you think it is driver just swap out board for extruder driver and retest. It may just be bad connections between motor and driver (I have had this when a Z connector almost pulled out - and it resulted in motors turning in opposite directions sometimes), or it may be that the ratio jumpers set under the driver board are not correct. If you are using the software I posted I hope you altered the steps/mm figures as I am using /32 for all motors except the Z motors which are /4 (hence 1000 steps/mm with 0.8mm pitch M5).
>>Building a machine like a 3D printer feels just like a hurdles race, a number of obstacles to pass on the way.
For me also. So many things that are not well explained, with solutions to be found, like the heat bed nonsense, rafts, bed adhesion etc. Each step a little more knowledge, but so much easier if known in advance.
Happy Easter PeterE
Best Regards
picclock
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@Chipenter,
Thanks for the tip. Will look at that, but before that I will make myself a quickie non-metal small screwdriver for that particular purpose. I don't want to risk anything being shorted while trimming. Will get back on that.
@Picclock,
Hmmm, OK good to know that there is a dependency lock between extruder motor and heater, but it should be possible to make test runs without using the heater. My informant writes:
"In Pronterface, below the "extrude" button, type in "100" mm, then hit "extrude". Measure how much filament comes out. If it's exactly 100mm, you're done."
Regarding the Y axis movement it is just as smooth as the X axis so I think there is an issue of some sort with either the driver or the cabling. Swapping drivers is a good way to find that out, will try.
Then, Yes, I am changing the values, but before finalizing the settings I want the movements to operate properly. Currently I don't mind slow running, that is safer than if they run fast.
To get over the obstacles I try to write everything down along the way. Sort of creating an info volume at the end. Since taking a lot of pictures on the build and writing steps here, I actually have a lot of it already. I also think it is immensly valuable to be able to discuss and juggle ideas on a forum like this. The maddest ideas are properly chucked out in favor of the more sane ones.
And, Yes, I had a very nice and Happy Easter holiday, hope you had the same!
BR
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
Filament extrusion min temperature is written into firmware which will override any other commands, including gcodes, if they attempt to exceed the printer capability. So it will only work with elevated head temp.
Best regards
Picclock
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Ah, OK, thanks, then I don't have to go that way.
BR
/Peter
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I found the reason for why the Y axis motor growled - I had misplaced the connector on the RAMPS board such that only three of the connectors were connected :palm:
After re-positioning the connector the sound of the motor was like the rest. But now the motor only runs in one direction :bang: I guess I have crashed the driver. Will test using the extruder driver and hope for the best.
/Peter
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PeterE:
When I was setting up my 3D printer and checking the calibration on my Bowden tube extruder I used the jog, or "Move Axis", function on the LCD screen.
I selected to jog the extruder, disconnected the Bowden tube from the extruder, told it how many mm I wanted it to move the filament, and then measured the actual movement. It measured to within +/- 0.02mm of what it was supposed to be. I figured that was close enough and motored on to the next calibration step.
I think that I'm finally starting to get past the vertical portion of the learning curve.
Good luck.
Don
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Hi Don,
Thanks for the tip :thumbup: I think I saw that alternative when jumping around the menu choices of the display. Will try for sure.
Totally agree about the steep learning curve, but in the end it is rewarding.
BR
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
I can't see how misplugging the motor connector would blow up the driver. One winding would not be connected and the other would be connected to different driver halves but this should not blow it up - perhaps someone else could explain this. Also misconnected would not allow the motor to turn at all as only one winding connected - a bit puzzling.
However, on a software note, the version I supplied you with has a bug, wherein if you set the extruder temperature over 260C it will reset to 210C. You can set the temperatures with gcode but they do not set correctly using the panel. I found this out because of the E3D head assembly instructions tell you to tighten the nozzle at 285C. I just did mine at 259 and it all seems OK. Also checked accuracy of E£D provided head thermister and it was spot on.
Good luck with swiftly resolving your motor issues.
Best Regards
picclock
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The lerning curve is parrabolic goes on to infinity .
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Unplugging a motor whilst the drive is powered will reliably damage the output FETS in any driver IC without a protection circuit either integral to the die, or added to the board. Not sure if it was powered or not.
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picclock,
Sounds good that the possible damage on either motor or driver is small. Probably something else. Investigations will reveal. Also good to know about the extruder nozzle. I am not far from that one now I think.
chipenter,
So true, the learning curve is really a curve, but a very interesting one.
PK,
Nope, one of my ground rules. Never do physical changes to a powered up electric or electronic circuit. That will always create more problems as well as being possibly hazardous. In this case the machine was powered down and mains feed disconnected. But thanks for the tip, it is always useful to highlight.
BR
/Peter
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Just for those who wonder if I am going to continue.
I am :thumbup: but first of all I need a break to get some perspective and find new angles, secondly the outdoor season has started with a couple of projects needing to be done before vacation. A new decking by the house is the one on the go right now. The old boards are becoming too soft for comfort being close to 40 yeas old.
Then another couple of smaller stuff and finalizing with a new outhouse/storage shed closer to autumn.
But I will slip in a note or two if I get something done on the printer. New parts are in the mail.
BR
/Peter
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Hi PeterE
I wish you every success with your house maintenance. It seems to me that its a never ending task which drags you away from the important things in life :beer:.
Good luck getting your printer sorted. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later. If you have filament opened may I recommend storing it in a plastic tub with reusable silica gel as a cheap energy efficient way of keeping it dry.
Best Regards
picclock
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He he, thanks picclock. The truth is that I do love to work with home improvements as well as fiddle around in the metqal workshop, as well as fiddle around in the garden, as well as fiddle around in the metal workshop, as well as fiddle with my model railroad layout, and also participate in a small MR club at a bi-weekly schedule when I am not on business travel.
So it is really a matter of time slotting to get all things running at sort of a pace, but the joy of looking at the achievements afterwards makes it worth all planning and scheduling.
BR
/Peter
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So the first major step is done on the home improvement job. About 40 sqm of decking "floorboards" have been changed from 22X95 mm to 28x120 mm. A considerable change that will make the deck much stronger and last longer.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Homework/Altan2016/Altan2016-02.jpg)
While at it I thought that why not add some decorative lighting. A 24 VDC system for a buch of LED-lights of varaious types. Turned out quite well and also to the pleasure of the wife.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/Homework/Altan2016/Altan2016-03.jpg)
Next up is the corner bench with storage and then the big job is done before vacation :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
BR
/Peter
PS I needed the break from the 3D challenge, but willg et at it later on. DS