MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: Darren on June 17, 2009, 08:44:17 AM
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I've been offered a Beaver milling machine for about the same price I could sell my current Sealy miller for....
I have to say I'm tempted, it's apparently got a slightly bigger table than the briggy and is in excellent condition.
The downfeed pin has sheared, common briggy problem they seemed to have copied. I seem to remeber Bernd fixed the one on his????
Two cross feed speeds and he can deliver.....it's local.
What do I do???
Oh hum.....I really don't know..... :scratch:
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Yes Darren I did a fix on my Briggy. Common problem I found out if you try to use the down feed for a drill larger than 1/4". Says so right in the manual not to use drills over 1/4" dia. The down feed should be used more for a boring head than drill anyway. If you need to drill a large hole use either the manual down feed or use the up feed on the table.
I'd say go for it. You can always mill small stuff on a large table, but you can't mill large stuff on a small table. I think it goes something like that. At least Bogs would probably say that. :lol:
And if I recall right you now have a bigger workshop to put it in, right. :thumbup:
Bernd
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Thanks Bernd,
Can you use the manual down feed with the pin sheared? Just untill it's fixed. I ask cos I'd have to sell the Sealey miller to provide the funds and it makes a nice drilling machine with it's indexable table.
Can the larger machines also do this?
I have a pillar drill for normal jobs but I'm concerned about precision drilling?
I am very, very tempted.....I certainly wouldn't be looking to upgrade would I. Yes got a bigger room for such a thing now.
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Oh, it's got a int30 head, could I put a 19mm collet in it and used a 19mm ER32 collet holder to keep my exising tooling without too much cost?
I think I could do that but have to ask. I have some thinking to do........ :scratch:
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Thanks Bernd,
Can you use the manual down feed with the pin sheared? Just untill it's fixed. I ask cos I'd have to sell the Sealey miller to provide the funds and it makes a nice drilling machine with it's indexable table.
On the Bridgeport you can still use the manual quill feed to bring the spindle down. I wouldn't know about the Beaver milling machine but would assume so.
Can the larger machines also do this?
Don't quite understand this question. Got a pic perhaps?
I have a pillar drill for normal jobs but I'm concerned about precision drilling?
I would first use a small drill as a pilot drill and then use the up table feed screw for the larger drill.
One thing you have to remember these machines were made more for milling and boring than drilling very large holes. So the feed mechinism is going to be on the weak side.
On your post about the int30. I can't answer that question since my spindle has Kiwk Change tooling. A whole nother animal altogether.
Hope this helps Darren.
Bernd
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Thanks Bernd, I think you have answered my question.
I was refering to,....say a had a piece that needed two or more holes, say 10, I assume the mill table can be indexed to drill these holes precisely where these where required with great accuracy?
I guess what I'm asking is can it be used as a drilling machine in that way, thereby making my Sealey mill/drill redundant so I can let it go to free up funds and space.
Thanks for your help, much apreciated.
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Ah, this answers that question, cept I'd need to find a int30 instead....looking good so far.... :ddb:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ER32-collet-chuck-INT-40-shank-PRECISION_W0QQitemZ370213429597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item563270a15d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1688%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
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Darren,
To answer your question, I don't have a drilling machine, all mine is done with the mill.
It just takes a lot longer than it would with a drilling machine.
ISO 30 is a standard used in industry, and I think you will be hard pushed to find the tooling at the same sort of prices you will find for our general use of MT or R8.
Your thought of using adapters to use your original tooling defeats the object of moving to a larger more rigid precision machine. As soon as you use an adapter, precision and rigidity tend to go out of the door. They should only be used in a dire emergency to get yourself out of a fix, not to convert a machine from one standard to another. But it is up to you whether you go that route.
When I bought my machine, I also considered this one
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/model_t_universal.htm
It was great because it had a horizontal spindle as well, but I soon realised that my toolholding and tooling costs would triple instantly because of the industry standard tool fitting. So that choice was rejected
If you want to take the plunge and go down that route, you might be able to reduce the cost by searching for industrial machine and tooling auctions, rather than the hobby tooling distributors.
If you want to use adapter sleeves, then Chester do them on this page under the sleeves heading
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/tool_holding.htm
I hope that this has helped.
John
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Thanks John,
Yes that has helped, I get the general idea of what you are saying....if I got for it then I will have to consider those options based on cost alone.
Saying that I have seen the tooling sold in bunches on Ebay from time to time going for a song...I'll do some studying... :thumbup:
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I have found an int 30 er32 collet holder, that'll do me. Should be no loss of accuracy with that.
Now I need to go and look at the machine itself.....
The boss says ok btw...... :)
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Darren,
I think Chester is about the best of the small model engineering ones to find the tooling. If you look on the same page as I showed before, they have a few bits at reasonable prices (if you can call double the cost of a MT tool reasonable).
If and when you get it, you just won't believe the difference from your mill drill, and you thought that was a rigid machine.
Best of luck
John
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If and when you get it, you just won't believe
how much we will all hate you :bugeye: ................... :lol: .................... seriously though Darren, just go for it mate :beer:
Not too long ago someone showed me a Bridgeport in action ........... the difference between a Bridgy and my X2 is like comparing a skateboard and a Golf R32 :smart:
CC
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Thanks John, as long as I have a way of holding ER32 collets then I'm mostly sorted.....I think.... :scratch:
I have to see it yet and give it a once over, not that I would know how :lol:
But hopefully I have learnt something from my last two machines..... :smart:
Fingers crossed, if it's tidy...then it's mine.... :thumbup:
I found this if anyone cares to see what they look like, takes a while to load mind...... :bang:
http://www.fleetradioproducts.com/mill/
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Not too long ago someone showed me a Bridgeport in action ........... the difference between a Bridgy and my X2 is like comparing a skateboard and a Golf R32 :smart:
CC
And the difference between a Beaver and Bridgeport is the same again.
Far sturdier machine, decent feed gearbox instead of one made by Timex, box ways, no skimpy dovetails.
I have a Bridgeport and if it wasn't for the fact it would cost me about 3 days to swap machines over I'd dump this bastich for a Beaver in a heatbeat.
I also have a CNC Beaver which is even bigger than the manual one, 16" in the Y and 32" in the X travels. - It's butiful..
John S.
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You know that's funny,,,,
The chap has a Beaver and a Briggy for sale, says the Beaver is bigger and in good condition. The Briggy on the other hand is a "bit worn" esp the lead screws and a has few bed marks.
He wants double for the Briggy over the Beaver....??
BTW, I read the Beaver is also designed to mill in climb mode, something to do with double leadscrew nuts or sumut.... :scratch:
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It's all in the name.
People will alway choose Myford over Boxford, Bridgeport over Beaver, etc.
Take a CVA lathe, a UK copy of the Monach 10EE cost about 25 K when new and when a Colchester was about 900 notes.
The Colchester will now fetch £2500 and the CVA will fetch about £900
John S.
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I was refering to,....say a had a piece that needed two or more holes, say 10, I assume the mill table can be indexed to drill these holes precisely where these where required with great accuracy?
I think I now know what your asking. I'm assuming that the Sealey must have any easy way to index a given amount you can set for hole to hole distance. If this is the question then I have to say NO for the Bridgeport. You would need a DRO and have it set for your hole distance and you would have to manually crank the handle to go from one hole to the next.
Bernd
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Sorry Bernd, that wasn't it, I prob made it more complicated than need be.... :(
Simply what I was asking was can the Briggy be used as a pillar drill.......
Forget the positioning bit..
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Yes, the Bridgeport can be used as a drill press. You can use auto feed up to a 1/4" drill or manually if you go bigger in drill size. A stop can also be set if you need to drill several holes to a certain depth up to 5" deep. If you need longer depth holes then you can use the table by rasing it.
Hope this has been helpful.
Bernd
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Very, thanks Bernd that's exactly what I needed to know.... :thumbup:
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I almost never use the power quill feed for drilling. With the manual feed you get feedback. The machine just plows ahead. I do use it all the time for boring,
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Yes, the Bridgeport can be used as a drill press. You can use auto feed up to a 1/4" drill or manually if you go bigger in drill size.
Hope this has been helpful.
Bernd
A Bridgeport is a drill press without the power feed.
Purists say that it's a tool room machine and not for hogging metal which I would accept IF someone can show me the fine feed measurement for the quill other than the fitted 5" ruler?
I'm then told you move the bed up but how can you use a knee feed when you have the head tilted to 30 degrees for boring out valve seat inserts in a hemispherical head ? Elliptical valve seats anyone ?
I'm then told you hold the work on an angle plate, so why the nod and tilt head ?
John S.
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That is a very good point you have there John.
I had never thought of that problem, but of course, up to now, I haven't had to or been asked to do anything like that.
It doesn't really matter on my smaller clone machine, as it has neither the nod or the power downfeed on the quill. So it has to be done by hand feeding.
It really comes to the fore when experience shines through.
John
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Sounds like the Bridgeport is a very versitale machine then with all the different ways to feed a cutting tool into the work. ::)
Bernd
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John,
It's not about the power feed on the head at all but the lack of knowing how far the quill has travelled.
All a Bridgeport has is a 5" ruler stuck on the front, you can engage the gearbox [ if it still works after using it to power feed a 3/8" drill :scratch: ] and use the handwheel but it's not graduated.
The clones often fit a graduated collar onto this so you know where you are going, even my old much aligned mill drill had a graduated collar.
So IF a Bridgeport is the ultimate tool room machine why hasn't it got such a feature ?
John S.
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I now see what you are on about. I hadn't thought about what you were saying
Luckily, my clone has a rule and a graduated depth stop, that is very accurate considering. But also I have fitted a cheapo DRO which does a splendid job.
John
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(http://So IF a Bridgeport is the ultimate tool room machine why hasn't it got such a feature ?)
My mill has the collar/stop. Perhaps yours was removed in a past life.
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Here's the thread I posted a while back when I fixed my power feed for the quill.
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=499.0
There are several pictures showing the scale on the front.
Here's a pic of the quill feed stop. Although mechanical it can be set to the nearest .001". The dial is grduated in thousands increments. One full turn is .050". Perhaps a bit hard to set to get the right depth but once set will allow to drill to the same depth on one or millions of holes.
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/Madmodder/quillstop.jpg)
Bernd
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I viewed it today, it's a long story as it's 3am here now (went to see a mate on the way home)
First it was a cupper and a good chat. I think I was being sussed out before proceeding.......fair enough.....
And the reason why....
I saw a LOT of machines, a museums worth....this guy has some collection and is clearly not a dealer as most are set up for production and the rest well preseved for longer term storage...!!
And I got to drive a train....yep...that's right a train.....on a lot of track too, it was huge....
I had a really good day today with loads of fun...... :)
Oh, the Beaver, I bought it but it won't be coming here for a mth or so.....John S....you're not wrong mate, it's got roughly about the same footprint of the Bridgeport but at the same time the Briggy looks spindly in comparison, not that you could seriously call a briggy spindly !!!.....we have a saying here.....built like a.........house.... :lol:
It needs a couple of minor repairs, nothing that should present any difficulty.. the ways look spot on to me, no sign of any wear that I could find anywhere, no backlash, no play and all the machines not on use were very heavily greased up.
The sheard pin is external and a simple fix, the powered downfeed feels like a spring needs replacing. It works put you need to hold the actuator lever in. Simple small cover to remove to get inside the workings.
Spindle speed change is easy and low gear ratios are by a backgear that puts the spindle into reverse but it needs a main motor reversing switch replacement. Nothing difficult.
Slow and high speed transverse are by two separate motors at either end of the bed, the switch on the high needs looking at. It just looks like dirty contacts to me.
Bed has a couple of very small dings, certainly nothing to wory about. The rest is in very good nick.
He gave me the price over the phone yesterday, I agreed to it today and he said is that it ?........I looked bemused at him....."well barter with me then"
So I got it for a pittance, he was almost giving it away......!!
Really, really, nice chap, I spent hours there between oggling at all the machines and playing at engine driving... :ddb:, all industry standard machinery...about 10 big millers, maybe 30 lathes, a whole hoard of pillar drills of all shapes and sizes, I guess about 8 of them that I could see, two shapers, one small and one large, two large cylindrical grinders, surface grinders, tool cutter grinder, and a whole load more piled high at the back that I just couldn't see properly.
One lathe must have been at least four tons, most around 2-3 tons each and a very nice Smart and Brown
And none of it for sale, I asked about a couple of items and I got a firm no....he just collects them by what I could tell.
I thought I had problems..... :lol: :lol:
Been invited back with the family to a BBQ where people from all over bring their trains to run on his track, he said I should meet some friendly locals at the same time....
The track was very interesting, he's been using his JCB to dig the track ways and I really enjoyed the ride as he has made it very interesting. Bridges, tunnels currently being built, lots of points, quite a large pond and lots of tress and shrubery. I can't remember how long he said the track was, but I wouldn't want to walk it !!
Fantastic day out..... :) :) :)
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Sounds like an amazing day Darren. His workshop must have been pretty big by the sounds of it!
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Darren,
Was it in Anglesea, and is the BBQ in July, if so I'll see you there.
John S.
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I'll see you there John :thumbup:
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Sounds like an amazing day Darren. His workshop must have been pretty big by the sounds of it!
Oh yes...it was huge...
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I founds a 30int arbour in my pile today, mt2,
Well it's a start.....
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Sounds like a really awesome place!
We need to hear about the fun in July!
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Hi, One for John S, if you would be so kind....
Could you tell me if BT 30 arbours will fit an ISO 30 machine? I belive they will but need to make sure.....ta..
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Yes but you need a longer drawbar because the BT's don't have the little parallel bit at the top.
Plus BT's are usually metric threaded INT as usually whit, always exceptions.
Ketan at Arc is doing some special INT 30 for the CNC bridgeports in ER32, they will fit as well as you don't require the special QC flange but again need a drawbar, [ read 10 lenghts of assorted studding :thumbup: ]
John S.
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Thanks John, I was looking at these which are holding ER32 straight shank holders
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BT-30-collet-chuck-tool-holders-Milling-cutters_W0QQitemZ200354752903QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item2ea612e987&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
I don't see anything on Arc site, or is this something in the big boys area... :lol:
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John S, I emailed Arc, but it's been days now and no reply.....?
However, Thanks to your advice I bought that Arbour that I PM'd you about.
£5.00 BIN plus £5 delivery, not bad for a tenner :)
It's the one on the left, a ER32 collet chuck. What's more it came with a ball bearing nut that Bogs rates so highly so was worth the tenner for that alone..!!
I used the nut tonight on my 3MT chuck and can see why you like them so much John (Bogs)... :thumbup:
This one had no C-Spanner marks, my one even though it's fairly new looks like a rat has been chewing at it already... :bugeye:
I assume on the bigger machines people swap the arbours about and not the collets themselves?
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Arbours/IMG_2443.jpg)
Anyway, Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated... :thumbup:
PS, the other one on the right is an MT2 fitting that I already had but no idea what it was or for...I do now...... :ddb:
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Sorry Darren,
Missed the bit about ARC.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collets-Collet-Chucks/ER32-Collets-Collet-Chucks
Second up from the bottom.
.John S.
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Thanks John, I see it now.. :thumbup:
Not the easiest part to find there, mind you I think the site is easier to navigate than RDG.
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This one had no C-Spanner marks, my one even though it's fairly new looks like a rat has been chewing at it already... :bugeye:
I assume on the bigger machines people swap the arbours about and not the collets themselves?
Yea, especially on CNC machines. Load up a rack of toolholders with tools-- you can set them to length 'offline', as it were, at a tool changing station, then just plug them into the machine as needed. If a tool breaks or wears, it's back to the tool changing station to be replaced, but otherwise even in collet setups the tool remains with the holder for the most part.
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Here you go darren, how to move a Beaver mill lesson 101
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/first_delivery%201.jpg)
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/first_delivery%202.jpg)
Last pic with the head off so it will fit thru the bloody door, these have now been raised as the fork truck had 10 thou clearance, now it has 40 thou .
John S.
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Good grief, :bugeye:
I hope it's not that big, I don't remember it being so.......it's not is it.....please tell be it's not.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thankfully I built the garage with getting a larger mill (and Lathe) in mind, access is quite good and building entry is a doddle.
As long as I can get it on my pallet truck it will be a breeze....
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Good grief, :bugeye:
I hope it's not that big, I don't remember it being so.......it's not is it.....please tell be it's not.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thankfully I built the garage with getting a larger mill (and Lathe) in mind, access is quite good and building entry is a doddle.
As long as I can get it on my pallet truck it will be a breeze....
Darren
If it is as big as this one I think you may need a bigger pallet truck. :doh:
At least it won't get blown away in the breeze!!!
Cheers :beer:
Don
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By, `ek!!!! :bugeye:
That`s BIG....... For the likes of us! ::)
Love it..... :thumbup:
David D
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Thankfully it's not quite that big Don, prob nearer half the size or so.
Mind you, it'll still give my pallet truck a workout..... :dremel:
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OK Darren, just loading the Donald up for the trip down Welsh Wales.
Put a load of LLLL's and NNNNN's and a few PPPP's in so should be able to read any maps :headbang:
Bringing a set of reversing relays, and two motor switches, anything else I've forgotten ?
John S.
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All that scrap behind your bandsaw.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Have you been there before John, the entrance is a bugger to find, I missed it twice and there is nothing else there..... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
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Yes been there a few times, spent a week there not long after John moved in and before the workshop was there.
In fact I helped knock a row of pigsty's down to make room and generally spent about a week digger driving and labouring for the builders who were putting a new roof on the second cottage along.
Can't bring any 'scrap' that's all needed, and the second rack outside with the 6" to 8" stuff on it. Problem with doing emergency repairs [ my main work ] is that you need stock, there is never time to stock up.
John S.
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I was only kidding about the "scrap" John,,,,,takin the wee wee about your stock.... :lol:
I guessed you might have known John for a while.....that entrance is still a bugger though for anyone visiting for the first time....
Look forward to meeting you tomorrow... have a good trip.....:thumbup:
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Should be getting the Beaver this coming Saturday..... :)
John Stevenson has kindly donated a suitable reversing switch...way to go John..... :thumbup: (nice chap in the flesh too, good to meet up)
Now then, a Herbert 2D is on offer very locally along with a Herbert high speed precision drill.......I'm not really looking for either though....but thought I would throw it up for comments....
And if anyone would like me to pick this up and hold it till it can be collected I could do that. You'sd have to bid and pay for it though. It's a bandsaw and I'm in N/Wales.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190320192103&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&salenotsupported
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Herbert 2D are capstan lathes not much use for a home workshop not unless you're going into mass production they there old hat been taken over by CNC, we use to have a couple of hundred of them and Ward capstans at one time know there all gone to that big scrap yard in the sky.
Stew
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Hi Stew,
If it's got a proper crosslide aren't they supposed to be able to do normal engine work, with good precision too.
My S&B is a capstan and it's a good strong machine that I really like using. Like I said, I'm not really interested unless it's being given away. I have no idea what he wants I just know he's been giving stuff away on Freecycle recently. Some ME mags which I've put my name on and some 3ph motors so far which I have not bothered with.
That's how I found out about the machines he is looking to re-home.
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Oh, he used to run a business making model train wheels......someone here might know oh him?
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They usualy have a fixed cross slide with front and back tool posts, front for facing, back for parting off, traversing was done off the turret with a wide range of tool holders:- turning, drilling, threading, tapping, undercutting etc, it was realy suprising what you could do with them.
Good strong machines with very good bearings, we use to use them with air operated collet chucks with women operators that were very skilled a good operator could make them sing, we converted some over to pnumatics operation so one operator could run three machines, but ther's not much call for them now with CNC, that's why you can pick them up so cheap.
Stew
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I see, one I was looking a couple of weeks ago had a normal x-y crosslide that was huge and looked immensely strong and accurate with very large dials.
So they don't all have it then....?
I have both a fixed lever slide with front and rear tool posts and a compound crosslide for my S&B. I mostly use the compound but I have done runs of 1000 or so identical parts with the turret and fixed slide.
Sure makes light work if you have that use.
Edit, come to think about it the Herbert I saw may not have had a compound slide, just a hand wheel for the crosslide? I'm really not sure now you mention it Stew.
I focused more on the Ward at the time and I'm not sure about that either now....?
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It's arrived..... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Pic's not quite as impressive as Johns but here's a couple......I was so excited...... :) :) :)
Don't be fooled by all the brown stuff, it's mostly grease, and a lot of it too....the seller heavily greases all his machines not in current use....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2625.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2628.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2629.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2630.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2631.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2632.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Delivery/IMG_2633.jpg)
I'm still excited......but it'll be a few days before I fire her up.... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
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That looks a nice bit of machinery Darren.
Have fun
Stew
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Thanks Stew,
I'm sure I will, once I've learnt how to use it... :scratch:
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Now you are in with the big boys Darren.
You thought the mill you are using now was rigid, just wait till you get moving on this, your old one will seem to be made out of rubber.
With a machine that size, if all the gibs are OK, you will put a cut on and you won't even need to measure it afterwards, it should take off exactly what you feed into it.
Nice one.
John
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Ah Ha.....I've just found something out......
Apparently these mills came with 2 or 3 HP motors.
Mine has a 1.5HP motor and it looks very original.
It seems that when supplied to Schools they where fitted with these smaller motors.
Could explain why there seems to be no wear on it and the general good nick.....along with a couple of small bed oops marks....
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Ah Ha.....I've just found something out......
Apparently these mills came with 2 or 3 HP motors.
Mine has a 1.5HP motor and it looks very original.
It's the Welsh version, made that way because they are little people down that way :poke:
John S.
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Now you know as well as I do John...
There was no electricery around here in 66.....all water power back then in these parts...... :ddb:
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That has great capability Darren! :thumbup:
David D
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The scenery in your neighborhood looks spectacular.
Mill is nice too :thumbup:
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I feel very privileged, firstly to live in such a beautiful area, and it is indeed very scenic for many a mile in any direction....I'll take some pic's when the sun comes back out to play.
Thanks for the comments on the mill, that is yet another privilege for me to have one to play with....
My workshop is an open place for anyone to come and visit and have a play, no need to be shy.
Just let me sort the new garage out first and get all the stuff in...!!!
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A request if you please chaps
Can someone take a picture of their Knee Handle for their Bridgeport or clone. The more types the merrier.
Mine came without one and I need to sort something out. It's 1/2" square drive so shouldn't be difficult. Anything I should know, ratchets, directions etc.... :thumbup:
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Somebody will come up with some pictures but one thing that is most important and Bridgies don't fit it is to tap the end of the shaft and fit a washers and screw.
The reason is you have the bed right down and are leaning over winding like a crazy man and the fooking handle flies off but because you are still holding it the but lumpy bit with splines and sharp point smacks you straight on the end of the hooter.
Let me tell you a smacked hooter after being hit with one of these takes ages to heal up :(
John S.
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Ouch.....I'll bear that in mind John..... :doh:
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Darren,
I had to do a fix on my Bridgeport handle. Check this thread out: http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=475.0
Might be of some help.
Hey John, know the feeling well. I speak in a much higher voice now. :lol:
Bernd
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Darren
Glad you finally have it at home. It looks like a very solid piece of machine. It should make some good qualty chips when you get it all set up and sorted out. :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Cheers :beer:
Don
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Thanks Don,
Not had much time so far, but it looks better than I originally thought repair wise. Should get some time to play later today.... :ddb:
Bernd, thanks for reminding me of your post, I'd forgotten about that. The Beaver looks very different to the Bridgeport in this area. The BP has a Dog drive with a round shaft. The Beaver has a 1/2" sq shaft.
What makes the lever stay in the down position, or is it a case of putting it there manually after each adjustment.. :scratch:
Just trying to get a "handle" on what's needed..... :)
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What makes the lever stay in the down position, or is it a case of putting it there manually after each adjustment.. :scratch:
It's that simple you'll kick yourself.
You just stop winding when it's at the bottom :thumbup:
John S.
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Oh, and there was me thinking there was some sort of ratchet to let it fall down.... :doh:
Just a handle with a sq hole then,
I was looking too hard, thanks John..... :thumbup:
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If you are just moving the knee to provide clearance then just leaving the handle at the bottom works a charm. Sometimes you need to use the knee adjustment if you want a hole drilled to a precise depth. In that case I lower the drill bit to touch the work, then set the quill stop and zero the knee dial. Then raise the quill and then the knee the depth of the hole. The handle might be anywhere at that point.
Another way to drill a hole with a given depth is to touch the drill to the work, start the motor, and then raise the knee the desired amount. The only problem with this is that there is no tactile feedback as there is with the manual quill. When I do this I use the knee handle to peck drill.
If you have a DRO on the quill then you don't need to use the knee for depth control.
For end milling, then you will normally use the knee to control the depth of cut.
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Thanks for that, I shall re-read that several times until it has sunk in.... :ddb:
I'm just wiring the mill up to give the motors (3 of) a test....be back soon.... :)
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What makes the lever stay in the down position, or is it a case of putting it there manually after each adjustment.. :scratch:
Just trying to get a "handle" on what's needed..... :)
The wrench is a 12" long ratchet with a 7/8" socket on the end. There's a small lever that allows you to change directions of which way it rachets. Don't know if you Britts have a different name for it. The rachet allows you to place the handle anywere you want.
Bernd
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Thanks Bernd, that sounds like what I was thinking of. Seems like there are both ratchet and fixed types
Got her wired up and running, sweet as a nut and very quiet which I was not expecting.
Sorted the bed x axis rapid speed motor switch that was hanging off the machine. Turned out to be dirty contacts that were arching. A quick spray with some contact cleaner and a good wipe over soon had that sorted out..
The slow speed transverse motor was not connected, the wires were snipped off inside the turret...Odd..? Not done that yet.
But, the DOL (starter switch) keeps tripping out after she has been running for a short while. The motor is not at all warm, seems to run sweet enough so I suspected the switch unit.
Opened it up and it seems the thermal cutout is rated at 1.1 - 1.6 A. The motor is rated at 2.5A. Now I don't know much about 3 phase electrics but this does not seem right to me?
I suspect this switch is for the slow transverse motor and not the main spindle motor.
Therefore I need another starter switch.
Good job someone has just donated one to me, in fact it's a double so will do both the spindle and the slow transverse motor.
But it needs a 12V circuit to remotely operate it. Guess what I found hiding inside the knee, yup a 12V transformer....fancy that.... :)
Next question, what type of switch do we use for the 12V side? Surely not a household light switch......
There are a couple of other very minor issues to be sorted. But overall it seems to be in fine kettle so far.
Oh, nearly forgot, the draw bar is the wrong one. Needs machining to make it fit. that's if it's not too hard a material.
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Can't you just swap the thermal cut out or isn't it the same type ?
Chances are it isn't as they make 10,001 different types.
John S.
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Sounds like your having fun Darren :thumbup: ................. more piccy's please
Good looking Mill, I saw a Bridgy clone (Adcock & Shipley) working a while back and spreading butter was probably noisier ........... enjoy :headbang:
CC
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Well it wasn't my genuine Bridgy then, that sounds like a boot polish tin being kicked down the Trent and Mersey canal towpath late on a Sunday night - in winter.
John S.
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Can't you just swap the thermal cut out or isn't it the same type ?
Chances are it isn't as they make 10,001 different types.
John S.
Fraid not John, totally different of course. Even worse, I was re-testing the units you gave me just to re-fresh my memory on the connections when suddenly all the magic escaped from one of the contractors.... :doh:
I only stuck 12V on it too, didn't get as far as 3ph.
Oh well.....but not to worry.....see next post in a mo.... :thumbup:
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Sounds like your having fun Darren :thumbup: ................. more piccy's please
Good looking Mill, I saw a Bridgy clone (Adcock & Shipley) working a while back and spreading butter was probably noisier ........... enjoy :headbang:
CC
Well I wouldn't say it's silent, but it is probably about the same or less than my Sealey mill. The 3ph rotary makes much more noise.
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Low and behold guess what came up on my local Freecycle just when you need it.
Quick reply and I was off, and this is what I came back with.....it was a take the lot job offer...
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Electrics/IMG_2670.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Electrics/IMG_2671.jpg)
There were four starting contactors, the one marked Fan is the perfect rating for the mill motor..... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Electrics/IMG_2676.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Electrics/IMG_2672.jpg)
This is a conveyor motor with a gearbox on it and a cutoff when you lift the lid switch, another contactor to suit....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Electrics/IMG_2674.jpg)
Jammy sod eh..... :)
I'll wire one in tomorrow and see how the motor behaves then...... :dremel:
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The head,
This machine has been stood for quite some time by the look of things, well greased and gummed up. Some of the controls were so stiff it was difficult to work out what each was for. Or indeed if anything was amiss.
So some simple striping down, cleaning up and a little poke around inside to check it out and see how it all works.
Zero info to be found on the net, so some labelling for anyone who may come across this post.
I gather the BP is roughly the same ???? Comments welcome here....or anywhere for that matter.... :lol:
Glad to say I didn't find any problems and all seems to operate more freely now.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2650.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2651.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2652.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2653.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2656.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2657.jpg)
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I forgot to say,
I connected the slow speed bed motor, the one you use to mill with and happy to report it too works fine...both ways too...
Seems very slow though and currently set on no3 of four speed.
Me thinks me has been milling on the Sealey a bit on the quick side....!!! :doh: It worked though.... :ddb:
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I gather the BP is roughly the same ???? Comments welcome here....or anywhere for that matter.... :lol:
Glad to say I didn't find any problems and all seems to operate more freely now.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2650.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2651.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2652.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2653.jpg)
Pretty darn close there Darren.
What ever you don't use the quill feed on any drill bigger than 1/4" dia. I think that's how my quill drive got broke. The quill drive is more for a boring operation than drilling.
If you are going to be drilling big dia. holes then use either the manual quill feed or raise the knee if you have a power unit on that.
Bernd
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Edit, come to think about it the Herbert I saw may not have had a compound slide, just a hand wheel for the crosslide? I'm really not sure now you mention it Stew.
I focused more on the Ward at the time and I'm not sure about that either now....?
I had a good look at a that running herbert 2b last night. Impressive machine, but as suggested not really the thing for us types. Shame it was only £200.
He also had a twin precision herbert drill, that was very nice, asked £60 for it, I said ok but then he wavered about whether he really wanted to sell it.... :doh:
Very, very nice machine, you'd have to see one in the flesh to appreciate how a drill can get one so excited.... :)
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Hi Darren
I take it was two drills close together side by side, if it was, again its a production machine I've seen banks of these drill up to 8 or more in a line, they were set up with different drill, taps etc the work was usualy jiged and the operator took the work through each drill in turn to make the product, very good machine, has it got a power feed and a tapping function, if it has bite his hand off for it.
Stew
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That's the one Stew, and a light for each just where you want it...
I let him know I would have it...just got to wait now and see what happens....I hate ummers and arreers...he offered it, I didn't ask.... :doh:
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On the Mill, changed the starter/contactor for one of the proper rating, it's a noisy bugger maybe it'll calm down.....or fry..... :lol:
But the mill motor seems fine and no tripping out so far....... :)
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I'm sure I've asked this before but I've forgotten the answer and the search engine turns up a blank... :(
Can key steel be milled, drilled without any problems?
Are you supposed to harden it afterwards or use as it comes.....?
I forgot to take a picture, sorry it would have helped.
I need a couple of dogs on my mill spindle to locate the arbour. I've just noticed they are missing. Is key steel what i should be using here?
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Yes
Yes
No
Yes
John S.
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Just to expand on John's lengthy tome above.
Yes Darren, you can machine, file and drill it. But don't harden it.
By the sounds of it, that is what you need. It is tough, but should fail if things go drastically wrong.
That is why it is called key steel, for making keys out of. Like for holding things on, similar to your flywheel on the diesel engine, if the engine stops suddenly, the key should shear, and stop the mass of the rotating flywheel from breaking the crankshaft.
John
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Thanks guys, I'll get a bar ordered pronto......seems I won't need to do much milling as it comes in the correct dimensions.... :ddb:
Just cut and drill then....can't be bad... :)
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Could someone with a Briggy please tell me if the toothed intermediate wheel in the head between the pulleys wobbles...... :ddb:
Cos if it doesn't then I need a new bearing, but it may be that it's supposed to be loose..... :scratch:
I can move mine about by hand.....can you.... :wave:
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I found this diagram on the net,
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/BridgportJHead.jpg)
I have a slight vibration issue, it's only small but if it can be cured then all the better.
The problem seems to be part 25, the back gear bull wheel, this is bouncing around merrily.
Looking at the diagram it seems that it should be held by two bearings, parts 59 & 63. So I assume at least one of these has given up the ghost.
If someone could check their machine and see if the backgear is solidly mounted I would appreciate it before I start ripping things apart.... :thumbup:
Also while I'm at it I might as well get a new toothed belt. As my machine is not a Bridgeport, but a close copy I can't be sure if they are exactly the same part.
Does anyone have any info that could help? Do I simply measure up and go to a belt specialist?
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Mine doesn't budge.
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And I can't get at mine because I'd have to take the whole top off. I don't have a cover on the side (item #85 ) like they show in the parts diagram. Sorry.
Bernd
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Thanks Kirk & Bernd..... :thumbup:
I guess you have a J2 head then Bernd?
So with Kirks solid info I decided to take spanner in hand and open her up....... :dremel:
First job was to remove the motor.....he says oh so casually... :coffee:
For some reason I assumed that the casting that the motor is housed in was made of alloy like the rest of the top section oh the head.....
Wrong, it's cast iron.....a heavy casting at that, coupled with the motor inside which also had a cast iron frame this thing is extremely heavy.
I'm not a small bloke and I really struggled on my own taking this off.......so my advice is, get a friend in to help.... :thumbup:
Here it is on the bed, no way am I putting in on the floor, I'd surely do myself an injury :zap:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2739.jpg)
To give an idea of the size note the rule to the left
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2740.jpg)
Inside the outer casing
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2741.jpg)
I've got it down to this point, but I'm stuck as the back gear refuses to release itself from the shaft. The gear is alloy and the shaft is steel, so at this age it's well fused together. My one and only puller is not big enough either which doesn't help.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2745.jpg)
Another view
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2748.jpg)
Well that's as far as I've got tonight, left it soaking in some WD40. I have a wedding tomorrow, thankfully not my own, so no playtime tomorrow at all...... :(
But it should give it some time to soak. I don't have much faith in the WD40 helping much so was thinking of heating the gear?
Would that be a good idea or not?
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Thanks Kirk & Bernd..... :thumbup:
I
Wrong, it's cast iron.....a heavy casting at that, coupled with the motor inside which also had a cast iron frame this thing is extremely heavy.
I'm not a small bloke and I really struggled on my own taking this off.......so my advice is, get a friend in to help.... :thumbup:
Here it is on the bed, no way am I putting in on the floor, I'd surely do myself an injury :zap:
To give an idea of the size note the rule to the left
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_2740.jpg)
That's not a motor.
THIS is a motor.
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/275Kwhousing.jpg)
.
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Please correct me but that only looks like half a motor..... :scratch:
So in effect it's not a motor at all................. :nrocks:
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:offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:
We got a piddling contest lads!!
Who's got the biggest?
Come on, all of you get yours out, and let's show the world. :lol:
This is the one off my lathe, the one on my mill is twice this size. I couldn't get far enough back to take a pic of it.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/biggest.jpg)
When I turn either on, half of the country's light go dim.
Bogs
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The other bit was in the lathe :thumbup:
No seriously my customers have this tendency to send bits round on the 'offchance' I can do something with them even though they know the size of the machinery.
The actual job was the brushring.
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/275Kwbrushring.jpg)
One of the blocks securing the brushes got snapped off, you can see the broken one in the middle on the bench so a new one had to be fabricated to hold the brush wand.
John S.
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You know I am only joking John, and you have shown me some of the problems you have with customers and their big ideas.
BTW, did you get the pictures and drawing I sent to you by email?, and if so, were they any good to you?
John
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One of the blocks securing the brushes got snapped off, you can see the broken one in the middle on the bench so a new one had to be fabricated to hold the brush wand.
John S.
That must have saved them a fortune, nice fix John... :thumbup:
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Nice to see the flood of suggestions coming in..... :coffee:
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Very difficult to see Darren, you have the main spindle right in the area we should be looking at.
From the drawings, I can't make out which part is the spindle it sits on. I suspect it is part number 60.
I am sure with a little flat bar and some threaded rod, you could make a puller that sat underneath the pulley, you don't want to be trying to get it off using those thin screw on flanges as pulling points.
John
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Thanks John, that looks like it might well work....should be enough room.. :thumbup:
I don't seem to have part 51 and 59 the top bearing....??? I don't know if they are missing or if they were never there?
There seems to be only the bottom bearing which is some distance away from the pulley. If it was originally made like this then it's a very poor design. I shall be looking to see if I can make a plate and add a second bearing. At the moment I can't see why not, but I need to get the pulley off before I can really see what is there.
I'm having a rest at the mo, wedding this morning and a do tonight, though not being a drinker I'm going in a bit later. So can't really go and have another look. Maybe tomorrow.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/BridgportJHead.jpg)
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Just had another look at this bearing issue and I'm convinced the top bearing and holder is missing. There are empty threaded holes to secure the plate in place. Not only that someone has modified the remaining parts to allow it to work without them..
This comes as a relief, cos I couldn't imagine the manufactures deliberately designed it this way. Fortunately the parts required should be a simple job to make.
I'll take some pictures later.....
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I'd just like to make a statement....just in case I'm giving out the wrong signals.
I want to state that I am in no way disappointed with any issues that I have found or may find on this machine. I say this because at least one member here knows the seller personally and I wouldn't want to give out the wrong message. :thumbup:
I'm chuffed to bits with this mill as all the major parts are in very good condition. It seems that at some time it has been dismantled, prob for moving and some parts may have been misplaced. But they are minor and easily fixed, even by me..... :lol:
As it is, it cuts very nicely with no fuss. All I am doing is fine tuning it...nothing more..... :dremel:
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Back to removing the pulley wheel..... :dremel:
It occurred to me that once I removed the pulley I might have a bit of a job to remove the bearing as it was fitted to a blind hole.
So I decided to remove the whole lot in one go complete. This was done quite simply using two jacking screws.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3099.jpg)
And it worked..... :nrocks:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3104.jpg)
See where the spacer is in the middle, that's where the bearing should be...
Once the pulley was removed (easy now it was off the machine) and the spacer pulled off you can see the stepped shoulder for the bearing.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3105.jpg)
I couldn't see the bearing number on the exposed side so it had to come off. I've had this puller for over 20yrs and this is the first time it's actually been of any use... :clap:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3110.jpg)
Out of interest I tried the bearing on the other end to see if it fitted. Yep, perfect.....that really puts the tin lid on the issue. It is supposed to have a bearing here, otherwise why the machined step which it fits perfectly.....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3112.jpg)
And the top bearing holding plate is fixed by three bolts here...
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3102.jpg)
For anyone who's got the same machine the bearing number is 6205, turns out to be metric and a very common bearing. Plenty on Ebay for £1.50 inc postage. Cheap for a change !!
Now all I need is to order a couple of bearings, the old one seems fine but I'll replace it anyway to be on the safe side.
Then machine up a plate and such.
I would like to fit a new toothed belt at the same time. But I have no idea what or where to start looking for a replacement.
John Stevenson, can I ask where you would start looking for a replacement ?
Thanks :thumbup:
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Darren,
In my case i just ring the local bearing distributer up and order one.
Does it have a number on it ?
If not then it goes by pitch, starts start of one tooth to the start of the other , probably 3/8" in your case, width and number of teeth.
Oh BTW don't worry I won't grass you up to John .............honest............. :headbang:
John S.
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Thanks John,
I can barely see some numbers and tapped them into Google which came up with this
http://www.kvalinc.com/catalog/belt-gearbelt-1-wide-56-teeth-210l100.htm
Perfect, that is the one.....wasn't that easy.....I'll ring the bearing supplier tomorrow.
BTW, thanks, Johns a nice chap and me whittling on here could be taken the wrong way..... :thumbup:
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Yup,
210 L 100
210 means 21.0" long
L means light pitch so 3/8"
100 means it's 1.00" wide
HPC are listing them at £7.54 to give you an idea but then it doubles up by the time they have added postage and VAT
John S.
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Thanks John, good to have a measuring stick..... :thumbup:
Good site to know about too, some of the gears seem too cheap to be worth making your own?
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For the record "The Bearing Man" sells this belt for £5.50...... :thumbup:
Some more progress today...started on the upper bearing housing from some scrap I picked up a while ago....
Machined to the basic dimensions, center to fit the bearing, marked off the PCD for the 3 mounting hole positions using the lathe toolbit and chuck.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3138.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3139.jpg)
Drilled the 3 mounting holes and fitted the bearing....so far so good.... :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3141.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3142.jpg)
First test fit and it just slotted on, didn't even have to enlarge the mounting holes for a jiggle fit....... :lol:
The front needs chopping off for clearance. (see next pic) This was done on the band saw. I was going to tidy the cut by milling but it came out so neat there was no need.... :med:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3146.jpg)
Slapped the other bits on just to make sure nothing was where it shouldn't be.....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3151.jpg)
And finally the upper casting to check clearances of the bearing housing.....plenty of room.... :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3153.jpg)
Well that was easy enough. Just waiting for the new bearings to come in the post and then I can trim the height of the bearing housing perfectly.
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Excellent. You'll be making chips in no time.
I really like it when someone takes the time to repair something right.
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VERY nicely done Darren! :clap: :clap:
As usual......
David D
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Nice going Darren :thumbup: hope your up and running for the weekend
CC
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Thanks chaps, shouldn't be long now and we'll see what difference it makes.... :dremel:
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New bits arrived and I've got it all back together now... :)
Wasn't really much to show picture wise as you've all seen the parts and know what I was up to.....if you're still awake that is.... :wave:
The bull wheel is now rock solid and no longer a cause for concern or vibration.
I fitted the bearings with this stuff...talk about overkill, but why not.....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3154.jpg)
One point to note that may not be obvious and may also apply to the Bridgeport. When re-fitting the top head casting, the one with the pulleys in it, you need to hold the spindle pulley up the shaft as far as you can. I used some square steel but whatever you have will do. Otherwise you can't get the High/Low speed changing fork past the spindle pulley. It's not that obvious so I though it was worth mentioning.
It will apply equally if you are changing a belt.
Anyway, the results.....erm, well, not a lot of difference to the machining. Vibration is down a touch but the machined surface looks the same.
Here's an example, not that obvious in the picture but you can see machining marks from both the leading and trailing edge of the cutter. (I know that's not a problem btw..)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/IMG_3159.jpg)
I have one more source of vibration in the head, but that's for another day and another post. Should be a very simple fix this time though..... :dremel:
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Good to hear you've fitted the new bearings and all is well ............... it should be quite a nice machine to use, what's the other problem then :scratch:
CC
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Hi Dave,
The very top of the spindle, not shown in this picture, slides up and down part No' 20 which is the pulley shaft and part of the top bearing assembly (two bearings 4 inches apart)
The clearance between these two parts is on the large side and the top of the spindle flaps about a little. I'm sure the spindle is held firmly further down but this very top area definitely vibrates. You can even hear it above all the other noise going on.
I propose to make a new drawbar whose top section will be a close sliding fit, so no room to rattle. Really just the top of the drawbar that will thread onto some 12mm threaded bar as my lathe can't machine the whole length required.
Quite a simple fix if you can get a grasp of what I'm trying to explain?
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Head/BridgportJHead.jpg)
Edit, I don't have part 2 or 3, I wonder if that's all required. I need to do some thinking...... :scratch:
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Quite a simple fix if you can get a grasp of what I'm trying to explain?
.............. I'm working on it, give me 5 ............. or 10 :scratch:
CC
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Make a rubber washer out of a bit of old conveyor belt.
John S.
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Thanks John, that just might do it..... :clap:
Now to find a factory for a bit of conveyor belt......umm, OK, maybe not, not around here anyway.
An old tyre then...... :)
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Forgetting the spindle for the moment I decided to have a look at something far more important for my safety.
The wiring and fittings.
Some of you may have noticed one or two of the metal protective wiring sheaths hanging a little loose having escaped their holders. A sort of flexible conduit a bit like a shower hose.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Wiring/IMG_3178.jpg)
I forgot to take a picture but what was even more of a concern is that the ends of these sheaths were sharp and ragged. This had caused them to start cutting through the wiring insulation.
Time to rip them out me thinks....while I still can.......... :zap:
I used this stuff, a four core double insulated and metal braided sheathed cable. Dunno if it meets regs but it's a whole lot safer than what was on the machine so it should do.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Wiring/IMG_3183.jpg)
While I was at it this was the perfect time to fit the reversing switch that John Stephenson was kind enough to donate. First it was fitted to the lid of a suitable box and then mounted here.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Wiring/IMG_3176.jpg)
This has really improved the usability of this machine by having a switch from the working position......how anyone manage before I have no idea.... :scratch:
Previously the only main/spindle switch was way down out of reach unless you went around the back of the table.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Wiring/IMG_3178.jpg)
Now having moved it up I can reach it quite comfortably from the working position. Plus I now have the reversing switch to hand. This has "reverse-off-forward" positions.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Wiring/IMG_3183.jpg)
Well that's what I did while the server was changing over............ :nrocks:
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Very neat & tidy Darren! :thumbup:
David D
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Very nice indeed Darren.
I don't think you need to worry about the safety aspect of the armoured cable, mine is up to regulations, and that has only got plastic flexible conduit with loose wires thru it.
You are really extending the life of that mill by putting right all the little things that have lapsed into neglect over the years. I don't think for one minute you will be disappointed at the end of it all.
John
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What a crap switch :thumbup:
John S.
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Here's a question for you on safety....
Using a RPC do you need a 3ph trip or will the single ph one on the RCP supply suffice........
I believe the single ph one will be ok as any surge on any 3 phase leg will ultimately have to come from the single ph supply that should be able to detect a fault on the 3ph.
In one breath if you please..... :ddb:
But I thought I'd throw it out for comments......
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But I thought I'd throw it out for comments......
Where's the "Whoosh ................ over mi' head" smiley when you need him (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/icon_scratch.gif)
I'm sure you'll be fine Darren, just run an earth wire to your left wellie :lol:
Sorry chaps if this is (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/OffTopic.gif) ............. I'll go .......... (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/smiley-sleep013.gif)
CC (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/hide.gif)
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I just have a switch on the single phase line. Works.
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A switch or a trip?
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If by "trip" you mean a breaker, then that circuit is controlled by a breaker in the panel. The switch is wall mounted right by the lathe and starts/stops the RPC motor.
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Thanks,
No that's not what I meant, the RPC has a breaker in it but not an MCB or other such. The single phase mains board (consumer unit) has those.
I was just pondering if the single phase MCB would cover the 3phase from the RPC if any one of the 3ph legs went down?
I think it would, but thought it best to air the issue....
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There is an easy way to find out of course..... :zap:
If you don't hear from me again you'll know it didn't work...... :lol:
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I don't know your terminolgy (MCB?). However a 3-ph motor will run, but not start, on 2 legs. So loss of one leg of RPC current would not shut down the mill. Now my lathe has a motor starter, where the circuits are held closed by an electromagnet running on one leg. I am supposed to wire that to the generated leg, but since I don't have a clamp ammeter I'm not sure which leg that is.
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I think we are getting crossed wires here...prob due to different countries requirements, though I really wouldn't know about that.
To answer your question the generated leg should be L2
On my question I'm referring to safety devices designed to protect you and your house wiring if a fault should develop.
The old fashioned device was a fuse, then RCD's and now MCB's and some other new stuff I really don't have a clue about. But could read it up I suppose.
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I think you are referring to Ground Fault Interrupters, which are installed on household outlets located anywhere near water (kitchen, bathrooms). Since US house current is 110V, we don't have those on 220V circuits, which generally have one dedicated outlet per circuit. FWIW, I have GFI on all 110V circuits in my shop.
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In UK
MCB Miniature Circuit Breaker ... usually <100A
MCCB Moulded Case Circuit Breaker .. seen 'em to 600A .. don't know where they finish .. lethal anyway
ELCB Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker ... AKA ...
RCD Residual Current Device.
Latter two probably equate to your GFI
Edit
RCBO Residual Current Breaker with Overload ie with both functions .. thought I'd add that one.
Dave
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Right....with you now....we have quite a different system here in the UK....all circuits are protected by individual safety devices. These detect live to neutral and well as earth faults.
Live =240V
Neutral (Even though it is a phase) = 0V as it's tied to earth somewhere, usually the power station but can be in the home too.
We as you prob know have 240V mains and things called ring circuits for socket outlets (wall outlet). There are generally up to ten on each circuit but that's not a strict rule. Separate circuits for each floor and kitchen, shed, garage etc.
I believe you in the US have two 55V phases and earth? So require different protection devices than we do.
So the crux of it all is I bet you would be as unfamiliar with components to suit our needs as as we are to yours....?
Except that to really confuse things we have to have the same 110V supply on any ongoing building site as you use in your homes. But factories are often 440V 3ph.
There are just too many systems and regulations....as usual....
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Hi Guys,
I want to machine a 10" long gib about 2" wide and 1/2" thick from a mild steel bar.
My vice has 4" jaws and I'm guessing having 3" hanging out each end of the vice would not be too clever?
How would you go about holding and minimising deflection?
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Clamp to a longer bar bolted to the bed. Move clamps as you move up the work.
This way you can do tapered gibs by the same method.
John S.
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Darren,
All I can suggest is to put equal height blocks/ screwjacks under each end of a heavy duty, under 2" wide x 10" parallel, for support......
Then tap the workpiece, nipped in the vice, down onto that.
Good luck!
David D
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Thanks for the quick reply guys,
I like Johns idea....Smart arse......thanks.... :thumbup:
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Taking Johns suggestion on board I made the missing Gib today for the mill, thanks John :thumbup:, so simple but yet again I was thinking too hard.....
Better show you what I'm on about, or not as it's missing.......I seem to be finding a few bits missing...but nearly there now... :)
The Gib, 10" long 1.5" wide and 1/2" thick....or it should be....... :doh:
I apologise in advance for the quality of the pictures, I must stop letting the camera decide where to focus... :doh:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3205.jpg)
Still not sure what I mean? Here's a closer view.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3206.jpg)
I decided to make a new one from some mild steel bar donated by Ralph, it just happened to be the perfect size, bar cutting to length...ta Ralph... :beer:
As I didn't have to machine the whole surface to the same thickness I could afford to clamp the bar flat to the machine bed like so
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3204.jpg)
I used a pair of upside down T-Nuts as stops to square the bar and then checked with a dial. Amazingly the bar needed no adjustment...
Not sure how clear this will be but hopefully you can see what I mean by not machining the to the same thickness. There is a step here.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3207.jpg)
This is one half machined, this bit bolts to the bit that slides on the knee, what-ever-it's-called. I added two more clamps but it hardly made much difference to the finish over two clamps.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3211.jpg)
A closer view.....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3212.jpg)
now I don't know much about anything but considering this was being machined with not one but two Gibs missing and the bed only being held on by pure gravity I was pretty chuffed with the finish. If you were to turn the mill upside down to rescue the pennies the bed would quite literally fall off....!!
The clamps were moved over "one by one" so as not to disturb the positioning of the bar and the other half was milled to size roughly 0.070" higher than the finished side.
Then it was flipped over, centre drilled, drilled and counter bored for the fixing bolts.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3225.jpg)
A diamond stone was tickled all over to make sure there were no high spots or sharp edges and then it was trial fitted.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/IMG_3226.jpg)
Lovely....... :)
I've left enough meat to need a couple of thou or so shims under the clamped edge to allow for some initial bedding in and longer term wear.
Overall this looks like a permanent fix/repair...... :ddb:
Just waiting for some new bolts to be delivered as I only have 3 of 11 needed....more missing bits..... :lol:
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Darren,
Your lucky with those gibs. All straight sides. On the Bridgy they are cast iron and milled with a taper, plus an angle or two. Would have never been able to do what you did.
Bernd
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Yes, box ways are pretty simple, there are actually two gibs, one for the horizontal and one (this one) for the vertical. Both independently adjustable.
Both Box and V ways have their followers for different reasons I gather.
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Very nicely done Darren! :clap:
I intend to do the same soon, for my lathe. :thumbup:
David D
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Drill sideways between bolts 1 and 2 and 4 and 5, fit a couple of those ball type oilers [ Arceurotrade ]
Drill to meet from the top rubbing surface and put a couple of shallow grooves in to distribute the oil.
Box ways are nice, for some reason they don't seem to get localised wear like dovetail slides and they usually have a far greater contact surface area hence more rigidity.
John S.
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Thanks for the tip John,
I see Arc are mostly out of stock on those..... :doh:
I have been thinking about a centralised oil system.......home made of course....unless anyone has one to spare...
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Thanks for the tip John,
I see Arc are mostly out of stock on those..... :doh:
I have been thinking about a centralised oil system.......home made of course....unless anyone has one to spare...
Probably because I recently stocked up on them :headbang:
Got any truck breakers yards near you ? quite a few have pressure oiling systems fitted, pumps are next to useless but plenty of pipe fittings, distributor blocks and metering valves.
John S.
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Darren,
If you want to pay for the stuff, Arc Euro have just started to advertise these.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/One-Shot-Lubrication-System
John
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Thanks John, that's actually not a bad price is it......I just may well go down that route..... :thumbup:
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that's actually not a bad price is it...... :thumbup:
Got to agree, good value imho
CC
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I'll tack this onto this thread as it's a similar subject on the same machine...
On the Beaver mill ram there are two Gibs on the right hand side. One at the front and one at the back. Rather than setting a clearance these are used to lock the ram down tight and can be slackened to make any ram adjustments.
It came to my attention that the one at the front wasn't doing anything ............ might explain a couple of things as I'd been chasing traming and a vibration fruitlessly so far. My issues wern't huge, in fact quite slight but all the same an unlocked ram sure wouldn't help anything !!
In this first picture showing the Gib you can clearly see a clearance at position "A".
A 1/2" bolt is inserted in the direction of "B" and threads into the Gib. When the bolt is tightened it pulls the Gib down against the ram dovetail. Except in this case the bottom of the gib is already down due to the side clearance at "A"
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/Ram%20Gib/IMG_3768.jpg)
I took both Gibs out, front and rear and they are both similar except the rear one is a little shorter. Here you can see where the bolt threads into.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/Ram%20Gib/IMG_3770.jpg)
Set up on the mill I decided to remove 2mm/80thou from the bottom of the Gib as this will have the same effect as making it wider.
Using a 20mm dia cutter this was done in one pass as there was nothing critical here making guestimating the order of the day .. :coffee:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/Ram%20Gib/IMG_3775.jpg)
Popped back in for a looksee .... Yup.. that'l do it..... :)
BTW, these are not the original Gibs, someone had made these .... not too well either .... :doh:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Beaver/Making%20Gibs/Ram%20Gib/IMG_3776.jpg)
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Nice fix Darren.
You are now starting to get the machine back to how it should be. Pretty soon you will have a machine to be proud of, that will give you years of trouble free use.
Once you reach that stage, keeping on top of it will be so much easier.
John
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Thanks John,
I seem to be forever working on this mill instead of making things on it :doh:
But the finish is getting better all the time even though it was pretty good when all the bits were missing. It must be the shear mass that held it together.
I know that at some point it was moved along with a lot of other machinery. I guess it was dismantled and someone lost a box of bits along the way.
Coming along nicely now though :)
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Great fix Darren
:thumbup:
That mill will be a supper bit of kit by the time you've finished with it.
Cheers
Stew