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The Shop => Metal Stuff => Topic started by: doubleboost on July 01, 2012, 04:29:15 PM

Title: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 01, 2012, 04:29:15 PM: Hi
Lads
I have been wanting to make a horizontal steam engine for some time now
As i have a cylinder pattern from my marine engine i decided to make the engine around this
It will be a fairly big affair with no bolts smaller than M6
A simple L shaped pattern is needed for the base
In the past i have used MDF as pattern material
The dust from sanding and machining this horrible material has made me feel poorly on more than one occasion
Rob Wilson donated some Birch ply wood and i had some bits of old Oak shelving (Popper wood)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/IMG_3831.jpg)

The basic shape glued together
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/IMG_3887.jpg)

Car body filler is used to blend curves
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7010133.jpg)

All internal corners need a nice smooth fillet ,in the past i used car body filler (easy to apply but hard work to sand off)
I bought some fillet wax (bees wax) this is blended in to the corners with a ball bearing on a stick.
Much easier and faster than body filler.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7010139.jpg)

As you add more detail it starts to look something

The Grey bit will be hollow the rest is solid
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7010146.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7010148.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7010147.jpg)
A coat of high build primer transforms the pattern
John

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: jb3cx on July 02, 2012, 01:59:25 AM: looking good john,what size flywheel you going to use ?
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Brass_Machine on July 02, 2012, 02:16:59 AM: That is not going to be a small engine! Can't wait to see this one get built.

Is this going to be just a model or do you plan to power something with it?

Eric
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: krv3000 on July 02, 2012, 02:36:01 AM: well dun john
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: NickG on July 02, 2012, 01:11:45 PM: :bugeye: It's huge!! Nice work John.
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 02, 2012, 03:38:01 PM: The usual, beautiful pattern work John! :clap: :clap:

Clocked in. Watching quietly....... :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: loply on July 02, 2012, 05:21:33 PM: That is one big mould for a home shop :bow:

What are you going to cast it with?
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 02, 2012, 05:54:45 PM: Hi
It is a fair size
I am trying to work out its volume
I can weigh it find out the SG of Oak then work out its volume
Putting it in to water to measure its displacement is not a good idea
The base will be cast in Aluminium
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: andyf on July 03, 2012, 06:44:42 AM: If you have a reasonable size offcut of the oak, shaped such that you can easily work out its volume, you could weigh both that and your pattern. Then, roughly speaking because of your birch ply and filler, the volumes of the pattern and the offcut will be in the same ratio as their weights.

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 03, 2012, 10:44:43 AM: Hi
Andy
I was thinking if i weigh the pattern find out the SG of Oak
The formula is
Volume = Weight /SG
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: andyf on July 03, 2012, 03:12:14 PM: Hi John,

According to my inherited 1941 Machinery's Handbook list of "Average SG of Woods (Dry)":

Weight per cubic
SG inch (pounds)
Live Oak: 1.15 0.042
Red Oak: 0.75 0.027
White Oak: 0.80 0.029

Hope this helps, though these figures are supposed to be for dry wood, so I'm not sure what "live oak" is.

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Bluechip on July 03, 2012, 03:37:50 PM: If it's from Machinery's Handbook, they could well refer to N. American species ???

Not sure if they're the same as European Oaks.

Silky Oak is a eucalyptus .... IIRC .. :scratch:

Long time since I did any wood butchering

BC
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: andyf on July 03, 2012, 04:00:07 PM: Quote from: Bluechip on July 03, 2012, 03:37:50 PM
Not sure if they're the same as European Oaks.

Silky Oak is a eucalyptus .... IIRC .. :scratch:
BC

That's why I suggested weighing an offcut of the same wood, the volume of which could easily be calculated.
To add to the confusion, Selly Oak is where I spent 3 years at university in Birmingham. :)

Andy.
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 03, 2012, 04:10:48 PM: Hi
Had a bit google came up with this
SG of birch ply is 0.67
Pattern weighs 2.2 Kg

Formula is

Weight / SG = Volume

2.2 / 0.67 =1.474 Litres i assume
I can melt 3 litres so it should not be a problem :Doh: :Doh: :Doh: :Doh:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: David Jupp on July 03, 2012, 05:05:24 PM: Quote from: doubleboost on July 03, 2012, 04:10:48 PM
2.2 / 0.67 =1.474 Litres i assume
I can melt 3 litres so it should not be a problem :Doh: :Doh: :Doh: :Doh:
John

Problem is that 2.2/0.67 = 3.28 !
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 03, 2012, 05:07:20 PM: So
It is devided not multiplied
That looks like a better volume :lol: :lol:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 03, 2012, 05:11:16 PM: :lol: :lol: ye need a bigger pot John :poke:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 03, 2012, 05:15:30 PM: You mean like yours :D :D :D :D :D
By the time i get some risers and gates in there it will be a good 4 litres :doh: :doh: :doh:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Bluechip on July 03, 2012, 05:20:45 PM: Quote from: andyf on July 03, 2012, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Bluechip on July 03, 2012, 03:37:50 PM
Not sure if they're the same as European Oaks.

Silky Oak is a eucalyptus .... IIRC .. :scratch:
BC

That's why I suggested weighing an offcut of the same wood, the volume of which could easily be calculated.
To add to the confusion, Selly Oak is where I spent 3 years at university in Birmingham. :)

Andy.

Selly Oak ??? That's where Ariel bikes were made. :thumbup:

I had a 350 Red Hunter, a bloke up the road has a 1937 500 VH.

Did you make it ??? :lol: :lol:

I'm off .... :)

BC
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: awemawson on July 04, 2012, 08:06:57 AM: You don't need to know the sg of oak. Now it's painted use Archimedes principle to find it's volume. Place a brim full container of water inside a dry bowl. Imerse the pattern so that the water displaced spills into the bowl. Measure the volume of the displaced water - simples !
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 09, 2012, 04:55:38 PM: Hi
Decided to modify the furnace and make a bigger crucible
The story in pictures
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7080020.jpg)
Furnace extension ring

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7080035-1.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7080034.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7080012.jpg[/IM

[IMG]http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7090045.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7080032.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7090051.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7090049.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7090048.jpg)
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 09, 2012, 04:57:33 PM: And i was hoping the patten would come back pink :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 09, 2012, 05:08:07 PM: You seem to have a thing about me and pink :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I would have thought silver would have been your colour :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 09, 2012, 05:17:07 PM: your missing a photo :poke:

Rob :coffee:
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 09, 2012, 05:28:57 PM: Will this one do
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P5230062.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 09, 2012, 05:47:04 PM: :lol: :lol: :lol: dam fine lookin chap :thumbup:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: jb3cx on July 09, 2012, 05:50:24 PM: is rob starting to mine his own ally now?
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 09, 2012, 05:52:11 PM: Great day out mate :beer: :beer:
Once you get your cupola furnace sorted we will be able to smelt our own metal :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: John Stevenson on July 09, 2012, 05:54:10 PM: Would you buy anything off a twat in a yellow mac ?
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 09, 2012, 05:56:31 PM: Quote from: John Stevenson on July 09, 2012, 05:54:10 PM
Would you buy anything off a twat in a yellow mac ?

Now i realise why i like it hear :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 09, 2012, 05:59:19 PM: Quote from: jb3cx on July 09, 2012, 05:50:24 PM
is rob starting to mine his own ally now?

Nope just like dressing up in rubber :lol: :lol: :lol: jb3cx , i carried that lump of lead ore for friggin miles :Doh:

I it was mate ,,, next time i am taking a mobility scooter :lol: , then i can just zip around , no back breaking stooping :med:

Ist not a mac JS ,,,, is a very fetching one piece :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 09, 2012, 06:00:49 PM: jcb3x
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3168.msg33953#msg33953
Enjoy
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: John Stevenson on July 09, 2012, 06:17:33 PM: So me and Rob's having a conversation.

I sez to Rob, your a twat, you have always been a twat and will still be a twat in the future.
If you entered a twat competition you would come second.

So Rob says why wouldn't I win ?

I replied because you are a twat.
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 09, 2012, 07:03:23 PM: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote from: John Stevenson on July 09, 2012, 06:17:33 PM
So me and Rob's having a conversation.

I sez to Rob, your a twat, you have always been a twat and will still be a twat in the future.
If you entered a twat competition you would come second.

So Rob says why wouldn't I win ?

I replied because you are a twat.

That would be because the OLDER more experienced twat would win :coffee:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: sbwhart on July 10, 2012, 01:04:04 AM: Have you made the furnace from a BASS bear keg John ?.

I didn't know Rob was a trog :D

Nice work on the patern

Stew
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 15, 2012, 05:12:55 PM: Hi
Lads
Not cast that base yet
Lots of prep work first
Made up a set of crucible tongs today
Nothing special just 1 inch flat bar and a bit of welding
A good tip for bending flat bar is to cut the outside of the bend 2/3 of the way through bend it then a couple of weld beads and you are done
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7150055.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7150056.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7150057.jpg)

John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 15, 2012, 05:35:47 PM: :thumbup: i best get my finger out and make some rammers :palm:

Rob the trog :headbang:
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 15, 2012, 05:40:47 PM: Now that you mention it :beer: :beer: :beer:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: millwright on July 17, 2012, 04:28:08 PM: Its posts like this that remind me why i joined this site, Great work and some great comics. :clap:
Nice lookin pattern there John, waiting now for the pour.
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 19, 2012, 04:15:25 PM: Hi
Lads
Bigger castings need bigger tools
Time for a man sized rammer

Will my lathe ever be the same :slaphead::slaphead:
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7190061.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7190063.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7190064.jpg)
Hoping to get it cast this weekend :smiley-dancenana::smiley-dancenana:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 19, 2012, 04:18:41 PM: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: pleased thats your lathe mate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 19, 2012, 04:26:28 PM: So am i mate :drool: :drool: :drool:
I will be up all night cleaning it
The radius tool removes wood at a rapid rate :) :) :)
I am pleased i cut it "dry" :Doh: :Doh: :Doh:
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: micktoon on July 19, 2012, 06:47:46 PM: Hi , John , I have had my lathe looking like that before , :bugeye: hassle to clean but at least it soaks up the oil leaks :thumbup:, canny bit wood turning mind John and nice pattern too. I am looking forward to seeing the casting. I have a Graduate woodturning lathe now and they are one hell of a lot easier to clean , quick brush off and its done :clap:. thing is you still have your mega rammer so alls well that ends well :D

Mick.
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: krv3000 on July 19, 2012, 06:48:57 PM: good job john
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 20, 2012, 04:06:32 AM: That looks a handy weapon you've made John! Looking forward to seeing it in action. :)

No probs with cleanup! Less than 10 mins, with brush/ shovel and vacuum........ :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: DaveH on July 21, 2012, 01:53:33 PM: John,
You should have been a woodworker :hammer: :lol:
:beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: PekkaNF on July 21, 2012, 02:49:56 PM: Quote from: DaveH on July 21, 2012, 01:53:33 PM
John,
You should have been a woodworker :hammer: :lol:
:beer:
DaveH

Slander. I though that swearing was forbidden here, unless the sentence contains details of workshop or pattern. Does potato smasher qualifies?

Pekka
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 21, 2012, 03:30:47 PM: Hi
Lads
After a eventfull morning i now have a base casting
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210006.jpg)
I was joined by Rob Wilson for the casting rituall
It is easier with 2 people (safer as well if something goes wrong) in this case i could not have lifted the flasks alone
The pictures tell the story
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210065.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210067.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210069.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210070.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210073.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210075.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210079.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210082.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210084.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210087.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210096.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210099.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210011.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/P7210015.jpg)

Thanks again Rob

John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: krv3000 on July 21, 2012, 03:44:59 PM: :) :) :) well dum john dam fine work but i think you shud of cast a sper one up
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 21, 2012, 03:51:54 PM: Clearly shown, John! :thumbup:

Really nice, crisp casting. Well done, you two. :clap: :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: NickG on July 21, 2012, 04:34:21 PM: :jaw: Looks great. I didn't know the said would hold itself together quite like that for the hollow.
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 21, 2012, 04:39:08 PM: Fettled up well John :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aye , it was a good couple of hours ,bacon sarnnie was the best part :)

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: sbwhart on July 21, 2012, 05:17:11 PM: Real nice work a fine bit of casting. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

You can now use that rammer at Christmas for cracking nuts :lol: :lol:

Look forward to the next step machining it all up :whip:

Stew
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: dsquire on July 21, 2012, 09:50:30 PM: John and Rob

A fine bit of casting that was. Thanks for showing the pictures. Just like looking over your shoulder.

Cheers :beer: :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: micktoon on July 22, 2012, 07:19:59 AM: The lads done good :thumbup:
Looks like all went well with the casting, very impresive :clap:, looking forward to seeing it being machined , The weather was spot on for the cast too , which is almost a miracle considering whats its been like lately.
Class job there !
Mick.
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: millwright on July 22, 2012, 05:24:51 PM: A nice clean casting John, And the hired help comes cheap for the price of a bacon sarny.
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 23, 2012, 02:28:28 AM: That Lad's anybody's, for the promise of a bacon sarnie.......... :lol: :lol:

David D
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: narrowgauger on July 23, 2012, 06:19:45 PM: Hi Rob & John

knowing that there are many of us out here who cannot do a casting line this, how much would you charge for one shipped to Australia.

with beautiful base castings like this I would suggest that you have the makings of a nice little business here.

Have fun and let us see more.

Bernard
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 23, 2012, 06:42:29 PM: Hi Bernard

Just speaking for myself ,I will never do any castings for anyone else ever again . :coffee:

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: krv3000 on July 23, 2012, 06:47:26 PM: i hope you and john ant had a falling out
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 23, 2012, 06:50:47 PM: Quote from: krv3000 on July 23, 2012, 06:47:26 PM
i hope you and john ant had a falling out

:lol: :lol: :lol: no Bob .

Its just not worth the hassle for anyone else .

Rob
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: doubleboost on July 23, 2012, 06:55:55 PM: I have to agree with Rob on this
A couple of years ago Rob spent countless hours on a casting job
His time and effort (not to mention the cost of gas and bronze) were not appriciated
John
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: krv3000 on July 24, 2012, 04:32:02 PM: thats ok i must say rob is a bit shy on the bacan buttys thow :) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Steam Engine Base Pattern
Post by: RotarySMP on September 25, 2012, 05:25:13 AM: Lovely casting. Thanks for the photos.