MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: awemawson on July 21, 2014, 06:08:59 AM
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Several years ago I bought a Twose 276 Hedge Flail. It originally would have mounted on 'axle brackets' but this one had been converted to mount on the standard 'Three Point Linkage'. Theoretically this makes it easier to mount and also able to be fitted to any tractor with a three point linkage.
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Now the very day that it arrived a neighbour borrowed it, along with my tractor, but unfortunately he rang me an hour later to say he'd broken my tractor :bugeye:
The flail being on the three point linkage, and being a very lop sided and heavy load, had put more strain on one lifting arm than the other, resulting in the cross shaft breaking due to the torque - an 1 1/2" diameter high quality steel shaft :bang:
He mended it as those were the terms of the 'lend', but it meant that I wasn't prepared to mount it up again in that configuration.
Now I've bored you all witless in threads such as the 'enlarging a hole' thread where I was attempting to take the load off the hydraulics and take it elsewhere:
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9728.0.html
But those attempts also resulted in failure - far too much twist due to the lop sided load. So I decided to convert in back to 'Axle Bracket Mount' hence the thread a few weeks ago about 'Glueing Metal Back On':
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9885.0.html
The original 'fore and aft' spars on the flail had been chopped off and brackets welded on for the three point linkage. Now these spars are 100 mm square box with 6 mm wall thickness, and I had intended just to weld bits back on to bring them back to the original length. But thinking of the huge torque that they have to withstand I decided to replace them in their entirety. Theoretically they just bolt onto the very substantial hydraulic tank, but it remains to be seen how easily they come off.
This is what they looked like according to the parts book, which is the only documentation that the original manufacturer has after suffering various take overs
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Now none of the mechanics of the axle mounts is particularly difficult, but what is difficult is measuring up to decide where to put them and how big to make them, so I cast around to see what I could find.
A set of brackets designed for my tractor (Ford 4600) but for a different flail turned up on eBay - they were for a Bomford and he also had the 'jaw fittings' which are rather more self-aligning than the Twose ones (which I couldn't find anyway)
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So having at last completed the change of the right hand axle oil seal yesterday I could mount the brackets and start deciding how to glue the lot together.
Here is a picture of a Bomford flail with very similar brackets
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So this morning I started unbolting the jaws from their original mounts - easy peasy - just four nuts and bolts on each - well not quite - they we unbelievably tight and I had to resort to unothodox methods to hold the bit down while swinging on the 3/4" socket drive with a long pipe
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So having got them off, I mounted the jaws on the brackets, which I'd bolted to the axle yesterday
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This allowed me to start measuring up how it would interface to those two spars I was about to make. I had made up a timber 'mock up' of the spars accurately set to replicate their spacing and width, as having the differential 'lump' and the pto gubbins in the way otherwise made measurements impossible.
First offering up implied that the 'jaws' nicely fell on the centre line of the spars - but this was wishful thinking as the jaws obviously weren't set on the stands quite parallel :( Never mind they fall within the width of the spar - I intend to cut deep slots in the spars -insert the jaws and weld them together.
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This shows the off set of the jaw centre line in a spar end
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So I placed an order for the new 100 x 100 x 6 mm box section and the very heavy angle and plate need to replicate those spars. All came from Austen Knapman who carry a very wide range of steel sizes - and deliver for a not too exhorbitant fee:
www.austenknapman.co.uk
So the next thing to do is work out how to jack up the flail to remove the original spars - needs serious support as it's a bit heavy and I'll be under it :bugeye:
But I also need to drain the 25 gallons of hydraulic oil from it's tank and fit either a 'Quick Disconnect' or maybe just a gate valve. At the moment the hydraulic pump that turns the flail head is just hanging on umbilical pipes making fitting difficult onto the pto drive. If it is separable it will be much easier
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It's a beast for mount torque. Hope this works!
It wants wheels back there somehow, though I can't think of any particularly convenient or even useful way. that would work.
The articulated mowers I've seen the town run have a side frame mount, mid tractor.
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Oh yes Steve - it had better work this time :bang:
I want to remove the pump from it's umbilical pipes so that I can install it on the tractor and see how much room I need to leave for it. So I started off by draining the tank:
First assemble enough empty oil drums - this necessitated a trip to the local recycling dump where I could loose the old oil that I replaced in the tractor back axle escapade - this provided two empty x 25 litre drums. A quick hunt round found another 25 and two 20 litre drums
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Now the pamphlet that I have on this flail says that the tank holds 25 UK gallons - so that is about 114 litres. we have 115 litres total capacity so we should be ok - shouldn't we :scratch:
The filler cap and filter are too small for my transfer pump, so take them off:
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Hook it up to a convenient tractor standing close by and off we go.
Only a little bit of spillage - honest gov' :bugeye:
So the level is now below the output tapping, so I've been able to remove the plumbing and measure pipe sizes (1 1/4" BSP out of the tank - 1" BSP to the pump, 3/4" BSP out of the pump)
I've decided to use two 1 1/4" gate valves with a union between them to allow full bore out of the tank in such a way as the only oil spilled on disconnect will be the volume of the union. The output of the pump will retain an umbilical pipe, which as it is at a high level can be disconnected and stoppered without oil loss.
Order for pipe fittings placed . . . . next I can put the pump on the tractor for measurements.
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Andrew, you take on some massive tasks, but always succeed. Well done, keep on inspiring us lesser mortals!
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Thanks for your kind words Norman - your casting epic is no small task :clap:
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Now that the tank is pretty well empty I could remove the hydraulic pump and put it on the back of the tractor to help in measurements. Needless to say the hoses are in an atrocious condition having had the pump swinging on them every time the flail was disconnected from its host tractor. Another reason for making it detachable. The hoses are not in fact under any significant pressure but they definitely need replacing.
I had one little oops when draining the oil - there is a little plastic cap on the lower end of my transfer pump that popped off and fell to the bottom of the tank :bang: Need somehow to rescue it so it doesn't get dragged through the gear pump.
So here is the pump mounted on the PTO shaft of the tractor:
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This then allowed me to make a mock up of the tank position, which is represented in these pictures by the 'builders trestles'
They are positioned in the photos as close as is possible to the back of the tractor, but I think in practise I will move the tank structure back 3" to make access a bit easier and make more room for the bracket that holds the 'control standard'. This is a 1" vertical rod, cranked like a starting handle, with the hydraulic levers mounted on it - they project about 4 foot forwards and need to 'arrive' poking through the rear window and comfortably close to the drivers seat. The crank in the standard allows some adjustment, but I suspect that it will be 'suck it and see' when it comes to mounting it.
Anyway, a bit more of the mock up. The timbers represent the new spars, and will be slotted to fit round the 'jaw plates' and welded in place - and yes I know they aren't level - hopefully the real thing will be :ddb:
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Managed to retrieve the lost plastic cap from the hydraulic tank. A torch showed nothing through the filler as it was always in the way, so I soldered a 12v torch bulb to the end of some stiff 'twin and earth' wire, poked it into the tank, and lo and behold there it was.
Harpooning with a sharpened 2.5 mm welding rod, and then hooking it up saved the day. All this is really putting off the time when I have to crawl under the tank and unbolt the original spars - just not decided how to support it yet - the legs it stands on are integral with the spars :bugeye:
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Looking good, Andrew. I like the remote flashlight idea, too. Another thing to remember.
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Today has been a superb morning as far as progress is concerned :ddb:
I started by removing the 'standard' that holds the hydraulic controls - I had previously removed it so bolts were not seized. Bit awkward in that a 1" bar with a lot of weight on top slots into a pair of holes - you can fairly easily lift it out of the lower holes, then it starts wanting to twist - brought in the heavy guns, used the fork lift to take the weight, and laid it all still connected to its plumbing across the tank
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Then I started loosening all the various bolts that hold the two spars on. They were all amazingly quite easy to undo - I've been spraying 'Plus Gas' on them for the last few weeks.
But while underneath I made a VERY useful discovery. The right hand spar is mounted on a sliding 'Tee nut' arrangement, meaning that the spacing of the spars is adjustable by up to 3" - so all my worrying about exact off sets for mounting the jaw plates onto the spars is irrelevant - they can be made symmetrical and adjusted to fit the brackets :thumbup:
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So now to support the tank so that the spars can be removed safely.
I ended up placing axle stands under the right hand side, and matching the integral jack that is at the rear with a pile of timber baulks - gently lifting with the fork lift it to take the weight off the legs that are part of the spars, and transfering it to the new arrangement.
Took a bit of fiddling, as it is now balanced on five points (the four mentioned and the flail head itself)
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So get on with it and remove those spars :lol:
OK here you go then:
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I've been thinking about this job for quite a while, and as usual things seem more difficult in imagination than reality if you just take a step at a time.
So now I need to start cutting metal and make the new spars incorporating the 'jaw plates' from the Bomford flail and the design of the rear end from the Twoes flail.
So a bit of heavy cutting and welding - lets hope my plasma cutter still works, it's not been out to play for months !
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So take a 3 metre length of 100 x 100 x 6 mm box section and cut it to length. Shame the chop saw won't quite cut 100 mm so we had to do a quick rotation of the box half way !
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Quick trial fit - yes they look about right !
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Next to cut up the various heavy angles and plates for the tank brackets. The angle is 75 x 75 x 10 mm and the plates are 80x12 and 130x12.
Got them all cut up on the Pedrazzoli chop saw, was just cutting the last cut of the last piece, and there was a 'ping' followed by the clatter of something dropping to the floor :bugeye:
The balance spring that holds the chop saw up had broken at one of it's hook loops. This is a beefy spring wound from 6 mm wire with twenty turns on a 35 mm major diameter with hook loops both ends.
.... go on empty your pockets, some one must have one :ddb:
I think the next job is to cut the slots for the 'jaw plates' which seem to be a nominal 20 mm thick. If I have a suitable broaching cutter for my magnetic drill I'll drill holes for the ends of the slots and cut the rest with an angle grinder.
It's probably safest to then weld on all the various brackets, and drill the holes after welding to get them in the right places :ddb: One of the plates is slotted, so that will probably be done on the Bridgeport
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Chap has just delivered the plumbing bits to allow the pump to be removed without loosing too much oil. I'm using gate valves to give full bore flow, but they will need a bung as they are prone to weep a bit.
This means I can put all the oil back in the tank when I get a spare moment
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You can get large ball valves with handles that give you full bore .
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Jeff - yes I've got some in 1" - I was tempted but these gate valves are nice and chunky solid.
So I dug out the Magnetic Drill from it's crate I made 7 years ago when we moved here - not sure I've actually used it in that time. I'd forgotten what a joy it is to use
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So those holes need slits from them to the end, to form the slots into which the Jaw plates go, a job for the angle grinder. (I do have a nibbler that will cut 6 mm plate but it's a fearsome beast to hold)
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The box is presumably made by folding up and continuously welding the seam. It seemed sensible to drop the slot either side of this seam to reduce the number of welds in the structure.
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So does it fit?
Well yes it looks like it does from this test assembly
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I will set the 100 mm box in line with the hole in the jaw plate that accepts the axle bracket pin, so that the spars are level in use. I was going to trim the jaw plates of their excess material but there seems little point - the extra depth will probably add a bit of rigidity.
Next I need to make some slots in the plate that carries the Control Standard, and after that it'll be time to start gluing it all together.
Quite a successful day really - time for a scrub up as I'm filthy with grinding dust, and then I can feel a few beers being consumed :lol:
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Thanks for the update, before the scrub-up and drinks. That is true dedication. :beer:
Pete
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I convinced the powers that be at work to invest in a magdrill and I love it.
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I convinced the powers that be at work to invest in a magdrill and I love it.
I bought mine yonks ago when I had three Launderettes, and needed to mount refurbished machines on their 'plinths', which are C section beams. It was a rebuild project in itself - sold not working. The clamp magnet was very weak (rectifier and capacitor blown), the drill arced (new brushes) and the up and down sliding rods were badly worn (replaced). All the handle arms were missing (re-made) - other than that it was PERFECT :lol:
This one is a bit cumbersome by modern standards, and very heavy - theoretically it can work upside down supporting it's own weight but I don't fancy that :bugeye:
Looking forward to a bit of welding tomorrow :thumbup:
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Looking good Andrew -- looking forward to the welding part, too! Those mag drills are expensive!!! Glad you were able to rebuild a basket case -- should have known you'd take that on. :thumbup: My kind of heavy capital purchase! :clap:
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It was so long ago it pre-dates eBay :ddb:
We have a weekly publication in the UK called Exchange & Mart, and before eBay it was the primary source of such bargains. I'd buy it each week, and my colleagues used to howl with laughter when an item got circled in biro. Oh no not another poor mug being relieved of his worldly goods they'd say.
Notsure if it's even still being printed.
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So a solid days welding produced the spars. Not as neat as I'd have liked but certainly functional. Just need to drill the mounting holes, sand blast it and give it a bit of a coat of paint.
Welding started well, got the sweet spot on the machine set up for this thickness, did a few welds, then my big mig welder decided that today it's gas valve was going to play up :bang: - bit of faffing around and decided to roll out the oil filled arc welder to get the job finished. I suppose with the arc welder ones a bit more sure of getting decent penetration but I can never get it as neat as mig.
Got quite a bit done, but the arc welder was tripping a 16 amp breaker on the higher amperage settings when welding the 20 mm jaw plates. Got fed up resetting it, and re-wired the circuit on a 32 amp breaker - the wiring is 4 mm so no issue there - just the socket is 16 amp. It's probably only a momentary surge on starting - really I should get a 16A C curve breaker.
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Got the spars grit blasted and a coat of paint on this morning. Just before I started I realised that I'd not welded the vertical tubes in place that take the jack legs, so start was a bit delayed while I fork lifted them back into the welding shop.
Not come out too badly - next test is do they fit :scratch:
I'll leave them for a few days for the paint to harden
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Company for lunch today so not much progress: I did fit the tanks plumbing, and decided to replace the lens in the tank oil level. What I had thought were calibration marks proved to be very deep cracks in the old lens - a bit of polycarbonate was pressed into service
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I managed to sneak away for an hour after lunch and made these washers ready to re-mount the spars. When I drilled the holes in the spars I deliberately made them oversize to give a bit of tolerance on their spacing - so need heavy duty washers to back them up.
Four 1/2" bore x 1 1/4" x 1/8" thick
Eight 5/8" bore x 1 1/2" x 1/4" thick.
Made from some unknown stainless from the scrap bin that proved to be non-magnetic. Non-magnetic - yes I couldn't use my 'magnetic finder' to clear up the floor afterwards - very handy to get swarf picked up unless it's non magnetic !
Working stainless, especially unknown spec stuff, always makes me nervous, particularly drilling and parting off. It potentially work hardens all to easily. To avoid rubbing hand feeding I decided to 'power feed' the parting operation, and it went superbly. There's a tendency to be too gentle hand feeding !
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You can't beat a magnetic broom mine is 18 " with the pull release bar.
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I really must get one of those!
Yesterday the screw holding the lens in one side of my spectacles let go. Why do spectacle designers fit the screws head downwards?!?! :bang: :bang: :bang:
Usually, the screw stays with the spectacle frame but this time it took a dive into the pile of the living room carpet.
My lovely but shy assistant found the missing screw with the aid of an ex-hard-drive magnet. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Her computer KVM switch failed today - it would have been churlish not to order her a replacement. :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
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Never heard of a magnetic broom! Ya learn sumthin new every day!
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You Colonials - we need to bring you up to speed :lol:
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Chap has just delivered the plumbing bits to allow the pump to be removed without loosing too much oil. I'm using gate valves to give full bore flow, but they will need a bung as they are prone to weep a bit.
This means I can put all the oil back in the tank when I get a spare moment
Are these valves on suction side of the pump? I would prefer clear visual indication on open/close position otherwise you just must remember which way they were left.
Here is no remote control so you can hear if it happens to be closed and pump type is probably more tolerant to restriction on suction side.
In industry valves have handle aligned in direction of flow, when open, and have an inductive proximity switch to interlock the pump start circuitry. This was necessary, because too many pumps were wrecked right after maintenance...people have tendency to close the valves, but forgot to open them, specially if shift changed.
Pekka
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Pekka,
I didn't really want lever valves as a single knock could empty the tank - these things happen when for instance a flock of sheep walks past :bugeye:
The valves are only so that I can fit the pump first to the tractor, then hitch up, otherwise getting the heavy pump on the pto shaft between the spars is neigh on impossible.
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So up crack of dawn today to try and get the spars fitted. Heavy rain predicted for later so wanted to get on with it early.
Didn't go too badly using a series of packing, leverings and jackings, but by heck those spars are heavy. All the holes lined up fortunately and having got them loosely back on I had to set the spacing accurately to line up with the brackets on the tractor. Just a case of sliding the right hand spar on its slotted 'tee slot bolts' until it was right, but is took a silly amount of time to get it right. Tweak the back and the front would go back where it was previously. Ended up persuading it with a 14 lbs sledge hammer and a block of wood - but now it is bang on :wave:
In for breakfast, then I hope to get the control standard fitted back on so I can try it out :scratch:
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Got the control standard re-fitted - set it pointing sideways, not into the cab, for testing - enough to do getting the tractor accurately lined up and onto the 'jaws' It'll be far easier next time as the legs will have it set at the correct height. I ended up using a 'come along' where the top link goes, and pulled the tractor and flail together while jacking under the spars to get the height right. All good fun.
The objective today was to get it mounted and prove that it didn't twist too much. I've not yet filled the big 25 gallon hydraulic tank on the flail, as I'm still waiting for a bung. Worth pointing out that there are two entirely separate hydraulic systems:
A: the big PTO powered pump, the 25 gallon tank, and the 24 horse power motor that spins the flail itself
B: The tractor hydraulics that power the three double acting control pistons that articulate the flail head into position for cutting.
So I was able to prove out the articulation, but not yet spin the flail
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As you can see in the pictures there is remarkably little twist, and this is without the counter balance weight and tank full of oil (that is offset as a counterbalance)
I don't have the correct weights, but have some with a very similar fitting designed to go onto a narrower mounting bar. They sort of fit but would bounce off if the going got rough.
I thought I'd fit them and try it at full stretch and see what happens.
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Still remarkably little twist, which is a big relief all round :ddb:
Still have to:
A/ Fill up the 25 gallon tank
B/ Source replacement hoses for the PTO pump
C/ Fit two nuts to the left hand bracket - at the moment it's only held by two of it's four mounting bolts as the nuts were on back order - entails taking the wheel off to get at them :(
D/ Sort out a 'reaction anchor' for the pump - it has a chain that needs fixing somewhere to stop the pump housing turning
E/ Fix the detent for the tractor hydraulic service lever as it keeps springing back to centre
F/ Work out exactly how the controls will poke into the cab and get them there
Also I would anticipate a few of the articulation hoses are going to need renewing as it has sat idle for a few years.
However jolly nearly there now - just as well, 1st August is the first day we can legally cut farm hedges in the UK
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OK. I get it now. I thought it was only for maintenance. Very different case here.
You are doing very impressive job here and it's almost finished.
Even look of that overhang makes me feel uncomfortable. Once I fell a small front loader, just a little more list that I'm used to, little turn and scoop full of stuff and not even high. Swing-smash-outch.
We had Ford 5600 on our farm. My father still has it. Lot of fun finding replacement bolts and stuff.
Pekka
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New hitch parts look good Andrew. The lower arm to axle attachments look strong.
I know you've used this rig before so it's known to be operational with your tractor. But now it's stiffer and heavier and that top link and its attachment look like they must be in for a lot of side and impact stress when this rig is working. I only say that because I once saw a cast iron tractor differential housing break a chunk off under tension at the attachment and split. Not a pretty sight.
Don't break your tractor :poke:
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Thanks for the kind words Steve.
Yes the top link is taking quite a large load - I plan to buy a 'heavy duty' one - this one is 'regular duty' - difference being a thicker walled tube, and the threads are 1 1/4" UNC as opposed to 1 1/8" UNC on the 'regular duty' ones. Mind you the flail was supposed to be mounted this way and only has a hole for a 'Cat 1' pin for the top link. Couldn't order one until the flail was mounted as it was virtually impossible to predict how long it was going to need to be - as it happens it's worked out as the standard length for this tractor, which is 25" nominal (ie mid adjustment)
This afternoon I ignored the rain and got on with things.
I filled up the 25 gallon hydraulic tank (no leaks on the fittings or the level indicator)
I drained 25 litres from the back axle and removed the right hand rear wheel to get at the brake actuator seal, which I replaced (it was leaking too much to tolerate).
I took the left hand rear wheel off, and fitted the missing nuts for the flail axle bracket
I fitted the replacement rear wheels that have far less splits than the originals (!)
So the list is getting ticked off slowly.
Tomorrows task is to sort out the pipes for the PTO pump
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So the day started removing the feed pipe from the PTO pump and examining what it's ends were. 1" BSP cone fitting at the far end, but an SAE flange on the pump. Local agri-hydraulic place didn't have the SAE flange fitting so I just bought the pipe reasoning I can recover the fittings and re-use from the old pipe, as this is not a pressure pipe - in fact it will be under negative pressure.
So I set about sawing the old fittings off and re-using their barbs
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The result was altogether more sanitary than the old one :ddb:
Note I used 'Band-IT' hose clamps. I bought a Band-IT kit at a boot fair many years ago and it is very handy for these little jobs and far neater than Jubilee clips. The Band-IT system uses a stainless steel continuous band, a clamp, and a special tensioning tool
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The output hose from the pump, though not in it's first flush of youth, looked serviceable, so I re-mounted the pump and its plumbing.
The pump of course wants to rotate as it just sits on the PTO shaft, so it has a chain to restrain it
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So time to try it out. Started the engine, set the pto turning, and low and behold we have a loud swishing sound.
... not quite the right sound . . what's going on. At this point I looked at the ground only to see a large oil slick making it's way across the yard :bang:
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Like a complete twit, I had put the restraining chain on the wrong side, the pump had rotated, and torn the output hose -arrgh :bang: :bang:
Changed the chain to the other side, and called a travelling bloke who makes up hoses, as there is no way I'd use the Band-IT approach on pressure hoses.
Looking at the parts drawings the pump is actually illustrated 'swung up' rather than 'swung down' as I have it so presumably the restraint chain would have to go round the top link - I may relocate it when chappy comes to make up the hose
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Hi there, Andrew,
I'm sorry to read of your set-back. I hope the hose man comes without too much delay.
It isn't clear (to me) from your pictures - what keeps the hydraulic pump in the correct axial position on the PTO shaft?
Comparing the finish of your new spars with the yet to be done flail tank, I was reminded of Rust-Oleum paint. The story was that the original Rust-Oleum formula was developed by a fishing trawler captain who noticed that the trawler deck area where the catch was gutted never rusted. If that was true, maybe that original formula would have stood being applied over residual hydraulic oil?!?! Trouble is, the paint manufacturers all seem to have changed their formulae recently. My ML7 stands on a home-made swarf tray and cabinet finished in the original Valspar, I think it was described as 'three hour enamel'. It's still looking good after 44 years!
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I'm sure it works, Andrew, but that chain restraint seems mickey-mouse to me, and puts shock point stress on the cast pump aluminum gear housing and bending stress on the PTO shaft, since the pump is so far out with no support.
On the backhoe, which also has a PTO driven pump, it's bolted securely to the tractor frame. Now I realize the point was to make the pump more easily removable in this case, but a chain? There are plenty of ways to make solid, but removable attachments -- hitch pins for instance, seen on, well, practically all tractor implements. Or they could have mounted the pump solidly on the flail frame and used a universal PTO shaft.
Failing that, if they insisted on a chain, gosh why not two? One on each side. That would have prevented the damage from a mistake and restrained the pump in case one or the other chain had failed.
Apparently saving the cost of another foot of chain was worth more then the damage of connecting it to the "wrong" side". Or in the case of a broken chain or casting (a distinct possibility) the effect of a flailing hose and chain on a farm worker.
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Pete and Steve, thanks for your kind words.
Pete, that tank is probably not going to be painted - it would require a major strip down that isn't going to happen (unless perhaps in extremis!) It could have a 'slap of paint' job, but they always look terrible close up. PTO shafts have a groove cut into them through the splines, and attachments have an arrangement that clips into the groove to stop them moving axially.
Steve, I agree the chain is micky mouse - but that's the original design, features in the parts diagram etc. I suppose it does let it float, and the pto is only doing 540 rpm. More modern flails do have a rigidly mounted hydraulic pump with a pto shaft
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I feel pain of the misshap, hopefully gets fixed economically
It isn't clear (to me) from your pictures - what keeps the hydraulic pump in the correct axial position on the PTO shaft?
There is a groove on the PTO splined shaft. Also there is spring loaded detent (pin or balls) that you press in when you mate the splined shaft, the detent will pop up and lock into the groove and holds the pump in plase. Just like cardan shaft.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?s=39b06f80feec7f2314ef3410c95c82d2&attachmentid=271666&d=1366761349
http://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?s=39b06f80feec7f2314ef3410c95c82d2&attachmentid=271602&d=1366760958
Pin is ofcourse more prone to something, although these should be protected. Some horrendous accident has happened when something has been jiggeled into PTO and if not seated victim has reached into PTO clutch to ease it a little.
Pekka
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The 'Man in a Van' hose repairer has just left having replaced the burst hose.
I took the opportunity to rotate the pump so that the restraint lug points upwards, and I'm now chaining it to the top link in the absence of anything else at that height to fix it to.
So now to try it spinning. With a great woosh of air through the system as it sorted itself out, a spinning sound and yes we have a big scary flail spinning at a rate of knots. This would do you very considerable damage if you went too close :bugeye:
As soon as it starts being used in earnest all that superficial rust will be knocked off down to bare metal by the stuff it flails, ready to rust again over the coming winter :(
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So far the 'control standard' has been outside the cab, but it needs adjusting and inserting though the back window before I can use the flail.
What's preventing me at the moment is one frozen joint - The top of the vertical 1" bar sits in a socket so that it can be rotated to suit and then locked by a set screw. It's been stuck all the time I've had the flail, and has been liberally anointed with plus gas for weeks. This morning I tickled it with the oxy-acetylene torch and managed to turn it by a few degrees in one direction as I could brace it against a block of wood resting on the articulating arm. Can't move it the other way as nothing to brace it against :scratch:
It needs more heat on it, but the thing it supports is the three way hydraulic spool valve block, and I daren't put to much heat near it or I'll ruin it's o ring seals. Now the control arms are telescopic, and if completely withdrawn would let me unbolt the spool valve, slip it out of harms way, and roast the stuck joint - easy peasy.
...well life's not like that is it :bang: The telescopic arms are set to length then each locked by a 1/4" whitworth grubscrew. Two loosen nicely - the third is rounded on its 1/8" hex socket and refuses to budge. I was just setting up to cook it a bit more when Mr Hose man arrived - so back to the grind stone ...
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.......... and I'm now chaining it to the top link in the absence of anything else at that height to fix it to.......
Andrew - once everything is in use, I know the pump won't "flail" around but it'll probably rock&roll a bit as the rig moves and/or the head/pump power is varied. Can't tell from the photo how close the chain is to the inboard end of the top link sleeve, or how much scope it has to move - but I wonder if that chain may scuff the threads on the top link. I know parcelling it with baggy-wrinkle wouldn't last but wonder if some slightly more robust anti-chafing might be needed IF the chain is as close as it looks.
Dave
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Hi Andrew
Could you unbolt the control valve block and use the movement in the levers to pull it away a few millimeters to prevent heat conduction?
Failing that how about drilling out the grub screw - easy to keep centred and probably with a shaped point so it should release before you have to drill the threads. You might then be able to unscrew the remainder.
Russell
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DMIOM - the 'Heavy Duty' top link was delivered this PM so I'll be removing it anyway and looking for a more satisfactory locating method - I agree about the threads chaffing
Russell, your suggestion is what I actually did, except I completely removed it - see below:
OK setting too to remove that grub screw, firstly I tapered a larger allan key and tried tapping it in - no go. Then I heated the collar with oxy-acetylene and tried again - no go. Then I re-heated until the grub screw was red (and thus soft), then drilled it out with a 5.1 mm drill (tapping size for 1/4" Whitworth) which freed the three sliding rods
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Getting the square bar to slide inside the box tube was fun, but a big hammer and some more heat won in the end :ddb:
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This allowed me to unbolt the spool valve block, and remove it's extension operating rods
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So at last I could remove the cranked standard, put it in the vice with it's top mounting for the spool valves, and put some serious heat into it. Ended up getting it glowing before it submitted and would come free :bugeye:
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The plate onto which the spool valve block fixes has an instruction plate riveted with 'tap tite' rivets - this is the first time ever that I've actually been able to knock these things out from the rear to preserve the aluminium label :thumbup:
So a bit of a clean up, grit blasted in my blasting chamber, and a coat of paint made things look much nicer. Note the length of convoluted pipe masking the 3/4" bar that slides into the box section. This bit had a very light spray of zinc rich paint and will be re-assembled smothered in Shell Ensis preserving oil.
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So now I need to investigate why the roller that runs parallel to the flail is not rolling! I assume that the bearings have rusted up, I need to pull it off to order some more.
Paint can dry a bit over night and perhaps I'll get the controls back tomorrow
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I dismounted the roller 'up in the air' - the controls are removed at the moment so I couldn't manipulate the head :ddb:
So easy up a ladder with seized bolts ! Anyway off it came crashing down. The roller is basically a tube,with bearings at each end with an axle through it, pinned at one end to the mounting flange, and screwed into the other mounting flange. In the drawing below 'P' are the bearings, 'Q' is the flange with a thread for the axle, and 'U' are spring washers - I assume belleville type.
Needless to say 'Q' wasn't for unscrewing. I had to heat it to red heat and thump it very heavily with a small sledge hammer to un-thread it. More bruises in the iron work to smooth away later :ddb:
All now far too hot to carry on dismantling, so I've packed up for the evening.
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Wow, there sure is a lot to do on this one! You're steadily chipping away at the problems. :dremel: Looking forward to seeing it trim!
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Steve, as you well know, farm machinery left outside in all weathers and unused deteriorates rapidly :(
I wasn't looking forward to driving the axle out of the roller through it's bearings as everything was rather rusty. I left the end where I unscrewed the bracket soaking in a bucket of diesel overnight to try and penetrate, and certainly that bearing came out nicely.
Firstly I screwed the bracket back on, and with a bit of wood packing in between, gave it a few thumps with a 14 lb sledge hammer. To my relief it started moving and that end's bearing fell out! This left enough room at the other end to thump the remaining bracket with the sledge hammer and slowly pull the 25 mm shaft through it's other bearing. I am amazed that the roll pin that retains this bracket to the shaft didn't shear - it got a lot of nasty thumps from the sledge - enough to bend it (you can just see this in the picture with the bucket of diesel. I need to detach that bracket to straighten it and also to aid re-assembly so the bearing doesn't have to slide the full shaft length.
So at last I have a bearing in my hand and can measure it. (25 mm bore, 52 mm o/d, and 15 mm thick)
I put the end that still has the bearing in the bucket to soak - the outer of this bearing must be very tight as all that hammering would have been trying to push it out. May end up having to cut it out.
I've just checked the main flail head bearings - can't detect any play so hopefully they'll be ok with just a normal lubrication - silly thing is there is no provision for greasing the roller's bearings, and I can't see any way to incorporate it.
So now to order the bearings, then I'll start putting the controls back together
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OK bearings on order and should be here in a couple of days. I started re-fitting the controls - it works out that they would be too low by a couple of inches to comfortably pass through the lower section of the rear window, even when the cranked bar is at it's extreme adjustment, What to do, well I could extend the cranked bar - not easy - it's actually 1 1/4" diam not 1" as I said earlier. Or I could make a 'fish plate' to extend the thing that clamps the cranked bar. Or I could weld some tabs onto 'the thing that holds the cranked bar'. It's this later option that I chose.
It's 10 mm thick and I had no 10 mm bar stock of suitable width, but I did have some 75 mm angle that is 10 mm left over from making the spars. I bit was sliced up with the angle grinder and slotted on the Bridgeport.
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So to glue it together :ddb:
A bit of weld preparation to get decent penetration, then went at it with the oil filled arc welder, as I haven't fixed the gas valve on my big mig yet
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Now the obligatory trip through the blasting cabinet and a coat of nice 'Ford Blue' using the magic 'one coat rust preventing' stuff. Came out quite nicely. I'll have to leave it all over night before re-starting re-assembly of the controls.
So after lunch I had better try and get that other bearing out of the roller tube
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So after much violence, and the application of lots of heat the remaining bearing eventually came out. It's in a deep recess which made it rather inaccessible. I ended up physically breaking out the cage, balls, and inner race, then raising the outer to cherry red and cutting it with a cold chisel. The housing has a couple of burrs but I don't think that they'll be an issue.
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So now to sort out the end brackets. The one that is pinned to the axle shaft had been significantly bent getting the axle out. I knocked out the roll pin, and with the shaft in the vice heated the bracket to a dull red, at which point it would come off the shaft.
Then I flipped it onto fire bricks on the (thick) welding bench, continued to heat the bent bit to cherry red, shuffled it onto the bench and beat it flat with the very sledge that had bent it in the first place :ddb:
When things had cooled down a bit, I erased the evidence of hammering with a sanding disk, cleaned them up with a rotary wire brush, and gave them a coat of zinc rich quick drying primer, followed by a coat of satin black aerosol, also quick drying.
In the mean time I cleaned up the ends of the shaft, and re-tapped the male (shaft) and female (bracket) threads with a die and tap to hopefully avoid problems on re-assembly.
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So hopefully tomorrow I will be back on track re-fitting the control standard in it's new elevated position along with all the spool valve remote levers. I also have the heavy duty top link to fit - it looks very beefy
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Another fine day so I re-assembled the hydraulic control fixings. First I put back the extended standard holder and standard to check we now have the right height
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Then I put the actual control linkages and spool block back
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So now at last we have controls INSIDE the cab - such a novelty :lol:
There was a tool box mounted on that horizontal shelf behind the controls that I had to move to make way for the levers, but it can mount 'forward' or 'back' on the shelf - I think the back position will be ok, but it's so full of grease and broken useless pins and bolts I'll spruce it up a bit before re-fitting.
Just need those bearings for the roller and I'm pretty well there.
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I attempted to fit the heavy duty top link - it's a beefy beast and the outer diameter of the eye is too large to go in the available space :bang: It's 'CAT2' like the other one so the hole is about 1".
I did briefly consider machining the outer diameter down but need to gain about 10 mm for clearance, and I think that is too much to take off and would negate it being 'heavy duty' any more.
Anyone want to buy a heavy duty toplink :clap:
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The chain restraining the pto pump is back on the top link, but the 'locking tab' is preventing it sliding onto the thread and doing chaffing damage.
Apart from those bearings in the roller, and giving all the joints a good greasing we are good to go.
I am trying to work out a way of fixing a sheet of (probably 4 mm) poly-carbonate over the windows on the flail side. Initially I had planned to cut pieces to cover each of the 3 panes of glass, and retain them with rare earth magnets, however I'm now thinking of using one full sized piece down the left hand side of the tractor if I can work out a mount.
Originally the piece I extended that holds the cranked standard had another cranked standard holding a small shield - I say small, never seen one and only going by the picture in the parts list. It seems far too small to do anything significant and certainly won't save the glass in the windows from flying debris
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The post man has just brought the bearings for the roller, so it was quickly re-assembled - oh so easy compared to when I had to dismantle it :scratch: And then I put it on.
Quick trip round all the joints and pins with a grease gun and off to the field to try it out. Not happy to use it on the hedges yet until I have a bit more confidence in it, and fit that polycarbonate shield. However the rushes had got a bit long so I attacked them.
:ddb: :ddb: Seems to work :ddb: :ddb:
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Looking good, Andrew,
Did you get any weather a couple of days ago? (You know, hailstones the size of 20p pieces.)
How did your brook respond?
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Thanks for the kind word Pete.
We got strong winds and a fair amount of rain but nothing like the deluge that they had in Brighton which is surprising as it's only 37 miles away.
... but then perhaps it was a visitation, they do say "Sodom, Gomorrah, and now Brighton" . . . . . :lol:
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I am only another 25 miles east and didn't get a drop ,
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Ahhh madmodder mayhem amongst the rushes! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap:
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I cut 1/2 mile of Leylandii hedge this morning, and a similar length of stream and ditch edge at 45 degrees :ddb:
The damn Leylandii stuff grows like a weed, and the fellow who contracted to cut it previously retired a couple of years ago so there was really too much growth, and my flail only just has the reach. I think I'm probably going to get a contractor to take a couple of foot off the top to bring it down to a manageable height.
Not a lot of rust left on the flail head :lol:
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Hi Pekka,
Steel slides well on cast iron. Just think of all the steel shafts that run in cast iron bearings. My steel tee slot cross-slide runs on the cast iron saddle of my lathe very smoothly.
Mike
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Great to hear that you found a good way to remove the rust from the flail head!! Wot no pics? 37 miles from Brighton in East Sussex, my son Lives in Ucfield, you can't be far from him!
Keep up the good work. Regards, Matthew
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Uckfield is 22 miles from us Matthew - drop by any time you are there visiting
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:worthless:
me want to see hedge destruction in progress!
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Uckfield is 22 miles from us Matthew - drop by any time you are there visiting
Thanks, I will although I can't see it happening in the too near future! It would be nice to have a face and a place to relate to.
Regards, Matthew
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OK Steve - you asked for it :lol:
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Uckfield is 22 miles from us Matthew - drop by any time you are there visiting
Thanks, I will although I can't see it happening in the too near future! It would be nice to have a face and a place to relate to.
Regards, Matthew
It's the only place in East Sussex where the Leylandii have been skillfully sculpted to look like topiary amputees,you can't miss it :lol: :lol:...OZ.
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Oz, I'd dearly like to fell the lot of them and replace with an indigenous species hedge, but there are masses of them.
Trouble is we need the shade in summer and windbreak in winter that they give and any replacement would take at least 5 years to grow. The previous owners ran a greyhound training establishment here, and planted them to hide their activities from a public footpath that runs one field across.
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You seem to have a few more than the 50 odd 40ft leylandii we chopped down along one of our borders. Heaving the roots out (and their disposal) was a bigger problem than the trees. :-)
Still, our neighbours are now happy having endured the darkness since they moved in.
Pete
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We grubbed out about 200 when we were ditching a few years back. The problem is once they get above a certain height they are the devil of a job to contain. I understand that there is no known upper height limit for them, since the hybrid was created no one has yet let them go full height over a sufficiently long period.
When we came here I put a advert in the local paper for 'pick you own leylandii - free' - quite a few were dug up this way but people found it quite a job to extract them with a root ball despite the fact they were probably only 3 years old at the time. I wish I'd had the time (and cash) to pull them all out and as previously said, plant an indigenous species hedge.
We have planted 100 metres of mixed Blackthorn, Whitethorn, Alder, Willow, Crab Apple and Rambling Rose and I have another 100 metres to do at the back end of the year of a similar make up
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When I moved into my previous house, there were 45 Leylandii, up one side of the 40-foot back garden, across the bottom and back down the other side.
They'd been topped at about 10 feet high but had fought back by growing outwards! The foliage from the two sides almost met in the middle.
I asked the neighbours if they were happy for me to remove them.
The folks one side (keen gardeners) said 'Yes please, then we might be able to get stuff to grow nearer than 7 feet from the fence.' :bang: :bang: :bang:
The folks the other side (who had a rather nice German Shepherd) said 'well, yes, but you do realise that it's the Leylandii that are holding up the fence, don't you?!?!'.
I removed as much foliage and small branches as I could and cut the main trunks down to about 4 feet high. A friend lent me a Tirfor winch (is that how I should spell it?). A wonderful device - front cable to the top of the trunk, back cable to the foot of the clothes-line post(steel scaffold pipe, concreted in) and out they came, the trunk pulled over and then the roots just rolled out.
Mind you, after half an hour with a Tirfor winch, you know you've done some aerobic exercise! :doh: :Doh: :doh: :Doh:
It took eleven journeys in my Ford escort estate car to take the foliage to the local tip (oops, sorry, 'Household Waste Recycling Centre'!!). :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I removed as much foliage and small branches as I could and cut the main trunks down to about 4 feet high. A friend lent me a Tirfor winch (is that how I should spell it?).
Turfer Pete :thumbup:
Used them in ancient times for heaving oil-cooled armoured cable about ... and yup, I do seem to remember they were character building ... IIRC you heaved the lever through about a 3 foot arc to gain about an inch or so of travel ... which was a bit of a bu99er if you had 50 yards of cable ...
Dave
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Sorry to disagree, but mine says TIRFOR on the side of it
http://www.tractel.com/en/series.php?id_serie=47
As you say you know when you've used one for a period. The father of a friend of mine got my 17 foot Ifor Williams trailer stuck at the bottom of a hill in a field when it was full of logs. I winched it 45 foot up a hill before the wire rope would reach my Land Rover on firm ground and I could pull it. The Tirfor gives about 1/2" of progress for each pull - 45 x 12 x 2 = 1080 backwards and forwards pumps, I was totally knackered for two days :bang:
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Dave and Andrew,
Thanks for that - I'm so glad it wasn't just me getting old!! :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
On the subject of anno domini, my lovely but shy assistant got an email from a relative of hers and forwarded it to me. It's a link to a YouTube performance of a song that goes 'I don't look good naked anymore!'.
I'd post the link but there's a rude bit in the middle!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Andrew ..
Tirfor must be a trade mark then. I remember the thing we used had something like ' The Samson Turfer' made in ' Smethwick' cast on the side of it.
Damn thing weighed about a hundredweight in it's own right. Little wonder it never got swiped 'cos other stuff did ... :ddb:
http://www.htsdirect.co.uk/products/lifting-gear/cable-pullers-turfers/
Described here as a 'Turfer' so we're both right and Pete owes us a pint each I reckon ...
Dave
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I suspect that the answer is that the patent has expired, but the registered name hasn't. Tirfor seems to be the original. Mine is ex War Department and as you say they weigh an absolute ton. They'll do things in a very controlled manner that you can't by other means. But you need the biceps of Superman :ddb:
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I had a nasty experience with the hedge flail a few weeks ago :bugeye:
I had done two 'passes' down the north hedge in the ten acre field, and was two thirds of the way on the third pass 'facing up' the hedge ie with the axis of the flail drum vertical when there was the most almighty bang and I was covered in cubic safety glass crystals. All a bit traumatic! Shaking somewhat I climbed down to inspect what I'd hit and hence what had hit me.
One of the chestnut spiles in the fence that fronts the hedge must have been tilted forward at an angle - I was trimming back an overgrowth of blackberry that had erupted over the fence and into the field and had successfully missed all the others :med: The top 18" of chestnut had totally disintegrated into missiles that the flail chucked in my direction. The top wire in this fence is barbed wire which was broken but fortunately none detached or hit me.
So - what to do? Well the 4 mm safety glass is available for this tractor for about £150 plus probably needs new rubbers, but that only gets me back to the vulnerable position that I was in before. I know - I'll fit 6 mm Polycarbonate - if it's good enough for police riot shields which are only 5 mm then it's good enough for me.
Two suitable sheets ordered up (Part On Tools King's Norton via eBay) for £127 and some Dow Corning 799 special glazing squirty stuff certified for polycarbonate also ordered.
Polycarbonate sheet arrived two weeks late (so I missed the dry weather :bang:) and badly scratched UNDER the various packing layers which were undamaged. Seller swears blind that he has pictures of sheets before dispatch but never produced them ! After MANY shenanigans I eventually get a refund from eBay and re-order sheets from Trent Plastics that arrive next day in perfect condition and by the very same courier!
Where's the glue? "Oh sorry we meant to message you - can't get it any more so we cancelled your order" :bang: Some more ordered from another seller that arrived the very next day :clap:
OK we have glue, we have polycarbonate so set too. Fixing the uncut sheets against the cab and the door with bungee cords spaced off with a rolled towel I was able to trace round the window frames with a sharpie and cut with a jig saw - a few iterations and I got a perfectly respectable fit.
Now the temperatures have plunged. Minus 3 C in the tractor shed - glue needs minimum of 5 degrees C apparently. As the sun came round and eventually shone into the shed the temperature came up to about 4 degrees - what to do. Well I started the tractor engine and once warmed left it on a fast idle while I had breakfast.
Weetabix finished the temperature was now 6 degrees in the shed and climbing so I was good to go when the exhaust fumes cleared (!) Glue squirted on, cut panels again held in place by bungee cords and rolled towels and leave it for a few days to cure.
That takes me to this morning - now I've always wanted to fix mesh grills on this side of the cab to stop this sort of incident. Poking around in the welding shop I came across the mesh side panels that I removed from the furnace chiller unit that failed - they looked about the right size!
Sure enough the cab window is perfectly covered by one and the door window is very largely covered just leaving a small triangle exposed. I've bent up 'hangers' that are pop riveted to the top of the door and above the cab window, and the heavy mesh engages with them so at the moment only gravity is keeping them in place.
Next job is to devise a hold down method that is easy to release to clear debris from behind them yet stout enough to survive the odd blow from a flying fence post!
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Like the safety grilles Andrew! there is a product line there somewhere! I know its a bit of a faf, but you could tig a bit of extra mesh over that corner, and with a dab of galvafroid, no one would ever know!
PS I am well "on the spectrum"
Phil
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Good idea, Andrew. :beer:
That scratched polycarbonate was ridiculous! Reminds me of the "bevel gears" I got recently! :doh:
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I've been awaiting for some 'over centre' latches to fix the lower edge of mesh on the cab, and they arrived today. I'd intended to remove the D shaped end, and replace it with a hook that would catch the mesh and hold it in place. In the event it turned out that the geometry was such that I'd have to make 'stand off' brackets for the catches, and I thought if I'm going to have to do that I might as well use a standard 6 mm Lynch Pin - a far more agricultural solution :ddb:
So I needed to form some channel shaped brackets - 37 mm between cheeks. Now it's not possible to bend this shape on the box and pan folder as the second bend is interfered with by the bending fingers. I have the 60 ton press, but no tooling, and it seemed an awful fag to make tooling for only four brackets - so what have I that I can press into service?
I picked my old shaping vice - I'd replaced the jaws years back when I had a shaper and they are in nice square edged condition - could I press a square bar between them and form a channel section - a few rough and ready experiments said yes I could - so I did :lol:
Came out alright considering the crude method of manufacture. I clipped the corners off the upper part of the brackets to allow a standard Lynch Pin to be used and they have fitted on relatively easily.
At least now I can use the tractor when things dry up a bit.
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Cool bending idea! :dremel:
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:beer: Nice fix I wouldn’t have thought of that.