MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: Rob.Wilson on December 25, 2012, 05:53:00 AM
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Right thats Christmas out the way :coffee:
I have a couple of BT30 collet chucks ,no collets and no closing nuts ,so i was thinking about making use of them by turning them into fly cutters , My question is what is better the disc type or the arm type ? any thoughts on the subject lads .
Cheers Rob
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I have been experimenting alot with fly cutters.. Profiles and such.. I must say it depends on what material you will be cutting.
The large disc cutting ones, is great with a small sharp "point" and not a knife profile - cutting cast iron, and in some cases tooling steel. The mass let it takes kinda shallow but rapid cuts with small overstep.
I find the "arm" versions better for aluminium, brass and softer metals, and then i use a "spade" shaped cutter rounded nose with a relief angle for taking alot of materials. And the "knife" shape for finishing...
So i dont think there is a universal anwser to this question.. i have tried different versions coz everyone seems to have an opinion in the matter, regarding what is "best". I prefer the round nosed cutter cause i use flycutting mosly for squaring and putting angles on stuff. I like to make knife shapes for cutting dovetails and such.
But when doing cast iron V8 heads.. i take round bit shape it to a point but a flat on one side with a angle, and "chip" off the surface little by little with a large 200mm disc for weight.
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Hi Rob
I was recently in the similar position when needing a fly cutter with a much bigger sweep and decided to make one. I find the disc type does cover the work piece and make viewing the way a cut is progressing more difficult. I wanted my cutter to be robust and adjustable, I thought making the disc type adjustable would be more difficult, so settled on one I had seen in a pic. somewhere. The result is shown in a couple of pics in this forum, TOOLS > Band saw broken vice ( update ).
Cheers David
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Cheers for the replies lads :thumbup:
I think I will go for TCT , I like your adjustable fly cutter David ,that would save making two :med: ,had a quick look on the web and found this one .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/Fly%20cutter%20.JPG)
Rob
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Those adjustable "bar" styled flycutters is nice i have been looking at those on ebay but dont have the means to use them. (Acieran cant hold em). maybe i try to make one someday. =)
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Hi Rob,
Funny you should be thinking of an adjustable fly cutter.
I'm in the process of utilizing my adjustable fly cutter for another purpose, namely a tram.
I bought a couple of cheap 1" dial gauges, had a bit of bar that just needs drilling and splitting for clamping.
I use a purpose made cutter both for skimming brake discs in the lathe, and then use it in the fly cutter on the miller for skimming heads.
Chris
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Hi Chris :thumbup:
I am going for the bar type , no actual machining done today , hopefully I will get some shop time tomorrow :ddb:
I did crack out the Etch a sketch today and doodle up the tool holder .So it wil look something like this .I HOPE!
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_Fly%20cutter.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_FLY%20CUTTER2.jpg)
Rob
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Hi Rob,
I like those illustrations, what program do you use to get such impressive detail, I have to struggle along with AutoCAD, the free version..... :)
The square on the top of my fly cutter allows me to hold it downside up in the machine vice, and then hold items in it, usually to make indexable cutters to whatever profile needed.
I try to make tools multi use.
Chris
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Rob,
About TCT.
I found that these don't like intermitant cutting. Back at work I had to do a lot of machining tensile test pieces. They originated as sawn square section around one inch diameter and nine inch long. We had all materials to contend with, but found that the constant hammering on the corners (until the pieces had become round) knocked bits off the tips. The only way around it was to grind a very rounded point. about 2 mm radius then to switch back to the normal tip once the bar had become round.
Don't you get this problem with tipped fly-cutters ?
Dave
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We'll all give different answers. One of them is lack of rigidity in our tools to take on carbides.
For what is worth, some of us stick with hss tooling which suits machinery which was designed to accept hss tooling.
What sort of surprises me is that everone that prattles about carbides- till the cows come home- uses hss drills.
Something to talk about into the New Year, eh?
Norm
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We'll all give different answers. One of them is lack of rigidity in our tools to take on carbides.
Something to talk about into the New Year, eh?
Norm
Well here's my answer I aint waiting 'til New Year...........
Carbide is brittle....you can expect it to break due to shock load/impact caused by interuppted cutting...nothing to do with tool flexing......
5p supplied...(inflation..... :coffee: )
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Carbide works fine for flycutting, both inserts, and roundstock. And isnt to brittle. I use both. Mostly cause i find carbide makes a better surface finish one some materials than HSS do.
Just because something were intended for one type of tooling doesnt mean its still the "best" solution. Sure it gets the work done and sure its easy to handle. But i rather no resharpen the HSS bit like 10x times for one lengthy operation. When i can use a carbide that more or less works faster and produces a better result.
And i use Cobolt reinforced drills for drilling. Not pure HSS drills, cause i really hate resharpen tools all the time.
For interupted cuts with carbides ive found they hold together better than hss tooling that gets dull really fast when doing interupted cuts. Maybe its just me i dont know - im learning as i go and trying to take note on what happens with my tools (mostly cause im a cheapskate and hate buying new ones all the time.)
What im trying to say is: Pick the right tool for the job at hand, there is nothing really right or wrong. Most tools are developed for a reason. If it fits your need and its what you have learned and know.. use that then.
The insert on the TCT flycutter is really cheap and readily available from multiple manufacturers as well, i usually buy those triangles in bulk from china. U get like a 100 of them for the same price u get 5 HSS blanks (aliexpress.com is the way to go, they show up and disappear now and then). And add onto that the fact new HSS blanks arent same quality as they were 15 years ago. I got some old HSS from a member on this board, and i love em. I got some new as well and they are used as distance blocks mostly cause they cant hold an edge at all :(
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I am lost Intermittent cut :scratch:
Dont ALL milling cutter cutting edges come under cutting load ,then no cutting load whether there are 100 or 1 cutting edges .whether it be a 3mm cutter or a 100mm face mill
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050910.jpg)
So whats the difference if the cutter has one or five TCT's . Can anyone name a time when all the cutting edges on a milling under normal conditions are all cutting at the same time ?
Been using Carbide for years on home shop machines without a problems .
Rob
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I am lost Intermittent cut :scratch:
Can anyone name a time when all the cutting edges on a milling under normal conditions are all cutting at the same time ?
Rob
Yes....If you are cutting across a face of work where the workpiece is greater than the diameter of the cutter....
If your cutter is 2 inches in diameter and the face you are machining is 3 inches across, there will be a time when all of the inserts are in contact....
If you are more/less than halfway across, then the cuts become interrupted....
I've lost more tips than I care to lose, due to interrupted cutting ( and not down to me being ham fisted.... :D )
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Hi John
The cutting tips are still coming under a cutting force as it makes a cut ,removes material ,then no cutting force , each tip/edge is subjected to an intermittent cutting force .
Centre of the photo above is a one TCT chamfer cutter works a charm .
Rob
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Rob,
There's an interesting remark or two by none other than George H Thomas about things like starting and finishing cuts with the removal of teeth. Now I have removed quite a number of teeth through careless milling as he describes.
I've ruined a number of rather expensive dovetail cutters in my time- before I read this
Happy New Year
Norm
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Three tipped face cutter 4" dia , 3" wide bar one tip cutting , one tip to the rear , one tip in fresh air , tips cut one at a time intermittently .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050911.jpg)
If I remove two of the tips leaving just one ,as i have done in the passed wile waiting for a new box of tips , 10 in a boxs end up with one odd one . The cutter cuts just fine , all be it at a slower feed rate . would you expect it to break the tip just because there is only one ,Jut like a fly cutter .
Rob
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If I remove two of the tips leaving just one ,the cutter cuts just fine , all be it at a slower feed rate, would you expect it to break the tip just because there is only one ,Just like a fly cutter .
Rob
Rob,
No I wouldn't expect it to break not immediately but over the fullness of time, I'd expect it to be weakened at the tip....and eventually break ?
I think at the end of the day, there are too many variables to consider as to why a carbide insert breaks...Suffice to say, horses for courses, many prefer to use carbide over hss for many reasons and conversely there are those that advocate the use of hss over carbide...
I like both!! :D
The debate goes on... :coffee:
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Hi John
Just walked passed the shaper when locking the shop up for the night ,
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050912.jpg)
A TCT tool I made for a job , worked a teat :) cant get any more intermittent than the shaper :med:
Rob :beer:
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Hmmm. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't brought it up.
Dave
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:lol: :lol: :lol: just banter Dave :thumbup:
Rob
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Hmmm. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't brought it up.
Dave
Thats good that you brought it up. It gets the discussion started, people ask questions, people learn things, people ask more questions, and on and on. That is why the forums prosper and are so popular, because people do ask questions and make comments.
Happy New Year.
Cheers :beer:
Don
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Happy new year to all you guys.
And may the price of carbide tips fall to an all time low.
Dave :wave:
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And may the price of carbide tips fall to an all time low.
Dave :wave:
:lol: now that would be good Dave .
To answer your previous question, Generally I dont have any trouble with TCT fly cutters , when i do its when i hit a hard spot in a weld :bang:
Hi Rob,
I like those illustrations, what program do you use to get such impressive detail, I have to struggle along with AutoCAD, the free version..... :)
The square on the top of my fly cutter allows me to hold it downside up in the machine vice, and then hold items in it, usually to make indexable cutters to whatever profile needed.
I try to make tools multi use.
Chris
Hi Chris
I use an old version of Solidworks to do my design work .What version of AutoCad are you using ?
I wondered about the square , good that you have multi functionality of your fly cutter :med:
Cheers Rob
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Hi Rob,
I tried Solidworks, but after getting used to AutoCad's foibles I found it to be too much of an uphill struggle.
I'm getting old, and with work constantly getting in the way (no pension to speak of), I have to manage the best I can, with what I think I know.
I use 2013 30day over and over, naughty I know, but @ £3K+ and as I don't use it commercially, I don't feel too guilty.
I only play at it anyway, I doubt the drawings are good enough for anyone else to understand.
Chris
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I have no idea what we are talking about, nevertheless that has never stopped me joining in :)
Firstly Norman, at your age you should be grateful you can lose the odd tooth :lol:
Secondly Huh, I forgot what I was going to say :Doh:
:beer:
DaveH
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Ah, I remember,
Rob - Just wondering what shape insert you are thinking of using, triangular, round ?
:beer:
DaveH
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Triangular Dave ,,,,,,,,,,,, why ? :)
Rob
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Hi Rob,
No real reason, just that I have seen the round insert used a few times.
:beer:
DaveH
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If my memory is correct Dave , did you make a fly cutter with round insert :scratch:
Rob
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you did :thumbup: http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,4775.msg52887.html#msg52887
Rob
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Rob,
Yes I did, I had some round inserts so I thought I would give it ago. Years ago our fly cutters were 1/2" to 1" HSS and especially for steel and aluminium always ground a biggish radius on the cutting edge. Not that we were different most were done that way. As the carbide insert revolution took over industry all sorts of "odd" shaped cutters appeared each company marketing their own shape.
One real nice feature about being round if it gets a little blunt - just turn it around 30 to 45 deg. :thumbup: :clap: So 8 cutting edges :D
:beer:
DaveH
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Finally made a start today . :dremel:
Chucked a lump of 90mm bar and ruffed the OD and screw cut .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050918.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050929.jpg)
The collet chuck as is needs a bit beefing up and I did not want the fly cutter body to just be held by the screw , So turned up a plug from silver steel that will be a press fit into the collet chuck and also give me a register for the cutter body to fit to .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050921.jpg)
This was hardened in the shop pie oven .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050922.jpg)
The black chips are bits of charcoal , these use up some of the oxygen in the furnace , which helps reduces scaling on the part .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050925.jpg)
straight from the quench , glass hard in this condition it is only good for a sand blasting nozzle.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050927.jpg)
Back in the oven for tempering .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050928.jpg)
Tempered
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050931.jpg)
I will press the two together tomorrow after i have machined the registered in the fly cutter body .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050932.jpg)
Rob
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Rob,
Well like they say - so far so good :thumbup: :clap:
:beer:
DaveH
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Nice work Rob. :clap: :clap:
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Looking good so far Rob :thumbup:..... I did not know you could cook too :lol:, I must remember to bring some cold pies next time I call lol.
Cheers Mick.
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Looks like you've got it under control Rob...
Chris
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Rob,
Great job as ever.... :bow:
You need to stock up on pies for the next time I call............ :)
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Thanks lads :beer:
Rob,
You need to stock up on pies for the next time I call............ :)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I will get a wagon load from Greggs ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have there pie app on my phone :palm:
Well a bit more done , Plug pressed into arbour .And the registered turned .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050938.jpg)
May as well show this lot , someone may fined it useful , I need to flip the work around to finish the turning . I have no softjaws for the CUB lathe
so this is the method I use .
Turn up a bit scrap bar , dose not matter what , I had a bit ally to hand , bore it say 10 thou under size and stick a large chamfer on one side of the bore ,this is so when you machine it to dead size there is no fear of hitting the chuck jaws . remove from the chuck and saw a slot in it.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050940.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050941.jpg)
No mount it back in the chuck , I line the slot up with the badge on the chuck , that way I always no were to refit it .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050937.jpg)
Now find a bit shim , anything will do as long as it an easy /slack fit in the slot ,this is so that when the chuck jaws are slightly released the shim can easily be removed and the ring stays put . shim in photo just for demo.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050939.jpg)
Now tighten chuck and bore dead to size , slacken chuck , slide out shim and mount job.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050936.jpg)
Now the work is held concentric with prior machined surface , also no chance of getting jaw marks .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050933.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050942.jpg)
Rob
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:drool:
I`d pay good money to just stand and watch you for an hour :bow:
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....preferably in your workshop that is.
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Dirty boy :ddb:
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: scary Chris :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well grabbed a couple of hours in the shop tonight , Mounted the lathe chuck on the mill and milled the slot for the cutter bar.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050946.jpg)
Next whipped the vertical head of and using the HZ head drilled the three grub screw holes .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050950.jpg)
Whacked it back on the lathe and machined are recess for a bolt to lock the cutter body onto the arbour.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050954.jpg)
Thats all the work done to the body .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050958.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050961.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050962.jpg)
ALL THE BEST FOR THE NEW YEAR LADS :mmr:
Rob
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Top Notch work as usual Rob :clap: :bow: :bow:, is that bead blasted finish you have or some sort of acid dip, its hard to tell from photo but looks good whatever it is :drool: :drool:, good to see you at work in the shop again :dremel:.
All the best for 2013 .......... may your to do list get much shorter :lol:
Cheers Mick :beer:
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Looks very nice Rob :drool: :drool:
I often have to dull down the surface finish
To stop it from reflecting light in to my eyes :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:
John
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well dun rob
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Awesome work as usual Rob. Any chance that you would share the plans? Think of it as your Chrissy gift to us :thumbup:
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Cheers Lads :beer:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: AYE it needed de-blingin John .
Hi Mick ,I gave the body a satin Nickel finish ,anti corrosion coating :med: just something I am messing around with and nope I ain't telling you how :coffee: .
Cheers Mayhem ,,,, I may do some drawings :thumbup:
No real machining done , just made a couple of pretty pictures of what I hope the cutter bar will look like .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_fly%20cutter%203.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_fly%20cutter%204.jpg)
Rob
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Them there pretty pictures look almost real Rob :clap: I look forward to seeing the cutter bar getting machined :dremel: I am sure it will look :drool:
Cheers Mick.
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I look forward to seeing the cutter bar getting machined :dremel: Cheers Mick.
I'm looking forward to seeing this fly cutter in action.... :dremel:
Really looks the bizz....Rob :bow:
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This is very nice done, but I have to ask how have you made the surface? :bang:
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...Cheers Mayhem ,,,, I may do some drawings :thumbup: ...
That would be greatly appreciated Rob and much less secretive than giving away the finish recipe! Besides, a man of your skills could whip them up whilst having your morning cuppa :coffee:
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made a start on the cutter bar tonight , not too many photos .
The cutter bar is made from a lump of EN24 , needs to be tough , so here are just a few machining shots ,
fly cutter with TCT removing 1.5mm from said tough steel .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050966.jpg)
those intermittent cuts sure do make for a ruff finish :lol:
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050969.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050967.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050972.jpg)
still using the same tip in the cheap and cheerful fly cutter :coffee:
got most of the machining done ,
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050992.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050995.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050996.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1050989.jpg)
still a bit work to do around the tip area ,some reliving and a few rads here and there to tart it up.
Cheers Rob
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Rob, Only one problem here, I can not tell what is real and what is computer generated in your posts now lol................... I think the real one looks so much like the 3D version I just can not tell anymore :clap: Saying that your 3D drawing looked very smart so that must mean the finished real one does too :drool:............. its reminding me of that film Tron, I think it was called ? :)
Another bit of tooling that is better than you can buy for your collection , Well done :bow: :bow: :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap: :clap:
Cheers Mick.
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Just what i expected perfection
Mick
The ones with the tooling marks are the computer generated ones :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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Hi Rob,
Awesome work as usual, I just realised I missed a lot of the juicy bits on this thread, when looking on the iPhone I thought the photo of the real body was just a cad model and you hadn't machined it yet - must have skipped a page or something so just skimmed through on the computer!
I've been reading up a little on quenching and tempering as I need to make a couple of tommy bars, but then confused myself :doh: So I want something tough, not brittle but not something that'll bend! I see you quenched at 800C then tempered at 240. From what I read on wikipedia (could easily be wrong!) you tempered at the sort of top end of a stress relief type temp , any higher goes into the TME range - or is that just for carbon steels? I don't have the ability to heat to 800C so can't really harden, but if I tempered mild steel without quenching would it make the material tougher or just anneal it? Or could I just try to get the things cherry red, quench then stick in the wifes oven at 220 or whatever to temper?!
On the carbide debate, I think partly like Norman said, for the model engineer it was probably in the past a no go due to small, low powered machines. The cutting forces are a lot higher with carbide and you need higher speeds to make it efficient and prevent the build up of swarf on the tip which can cause it to chip etc and give a crap finish.
My next question is, why do you need a super duper flycutter if the cheapo one gives you a finish like that on the parts of the new one?! Is it just because you want to put the collet thingys to good use or have you got a monster project in mind for it?!
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Hi Rob
Turned out well, a nice beefy and practical fly cutter, I hav'nt got a carbide cutter, might make one for the 626.
Cheers David
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Thanks lads :thumbup:
I've been reading up a little on quenching and tempering as I need to make a couple of tommy bars, but then confused myself So I want something tough, not brittle but not something that'll bend! I see you quenched at 800C then tempered at 240. From what I read on wikipedia (could easily be wrong!) you tempered at the sort of top end of a stress relief type temp , any higher goes into the TME range - or is that just for carbon steels? I don't have the ability to heat to 800C so can't really harden, but if I tempered mild steel without quenching would it make the material tougher or just anneal it? Or could I just try to get the things cherry red, quench then stick in the wifes oven at 220 or whatever to temper?!
Hi Nick , I hardened the part at 800c and tempered at 240c , 240c is at the low end of the tempering scale , the part is very tough but not brittle . I would not believe all you read on wikipedia .
Not only dose the part need to be heated to the correct temp for hardening and tempering but it needs to be held at temp ,its no good just heating the part up to temp then quenching. Rule of thumb 1 HOUR PER INCH OF THICKNESS.
Forget mild steel ,hot rolled or BMS its has a low carbon content , and wont harden , it can be case hardened . So you would need to get hold of some steel with a higher carbon content .
The house hold oven can be used to temper parts , have used it many times myself :thumbup:
My next question is, why do you need a super duper flycutter if the cheapo one gives you a finish like that on the parts of the new one?! Is it just because you want to put the collet thingys to good use or have you got a monster project in mind for it?!
I wanted a no brainer quick project as my shop is still in a bit of a mess from all the upheaval of moving machines , also wanted to make use of an old arbour and at the end of it all have a larger fly cutter for the new mill , no plans for using the fly cutter yet ,but there has been many a time i could have done with a larger one , so its another job knocked off the list .
Well its finished , being a lazy git I went for chamfers :palm:
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060002.jpg)
did the cutter bar relief .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060001.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060011.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060003.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060005.jpg)
Min about 5" dia cut
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060010.jpg)
Max about 9" dia cut
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060009.jpg)
Cheers Rob
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The main body looks like a flying saucer against the black background with all the stars :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
It is out of this world
You will be able to use it to finish the 626 CNC :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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Amazing how much better the bar looks than in the last shots of it not quite finished .......... good job your hand was in shot to give me a clue to what is real Rob lol . Top class job :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:and as you say another thing crossed off the to do list.
Cheers Mick.
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Rob i keep reading but can not see??????? How do you get that anodised finish look please :bugeye:
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Seriously? :bow: :jaw: :bugeye: :bow:
Sometimes I cannot tell what has been done in Autocad or what is real when Rob makes parts. That looks amazing Rob!
What did you do to get the finish? Looks like it was bead blasted? but what else?
Thanks
Eric
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I reckon Rob has bought a nickel mine and is experimenting with nickel plating :beer:
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Thanks Rob, amazing work there, looks like itll rip sime metal off that! what I meant was 240c for temper is low but if you'd have gone any higher you'd be into the TME "tempered martensite embrittlement" temp range where you actually lose ductility and make the steel more brittle? To get out if that range you'd need to go 370C. So your tempering at the low end will give a slight reduction in hardness / increase toughness but mainly be relieving internal stresses?
Thought I'd heard you need higher carbon content to harden, is that like EN8 or something? So heating with a blow torch would do no good as the heat has to soak through to the middle? Would it not even harden the surface? Guess that is case hardening to reduce wear on pins and such like, though for that you need some sort of powder?
Lol looks like I'll have to have bendy tommy bars then or make them from something tough in first place!
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Thanks Lads .
Just goes to show nobody bloody reads the post :lol: ,,,,, I actually did said that I had gave the parts a satin Nickel finish :palm:
Hi Nick
I get what your saying , I would not worry too much about martensite embrittlement .
What about using Chrome vanadium ? cheep and easy to get if you no were , that would do the job .
Heating with a blow torch would be fine if you built a small furnace from a few fire bricks , you would need to use the mark one eye ball to judge the temp .
Rob
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Ah good idea, maybe an bar from an old socket set or something. Could I machine it though!
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I was thinking a coil spring from a car /truck .
Ah good idea, maybe an bar from an old socket set or something. Could I machine it though!
Yes if you anneal it first , :thumbup:
Rob
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Nice 1, can but try. Cheers
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...
Just goes to show nobody bloody reads the post :lol: ,,,,, I actually did said that I had gave the parts a satin Nickel finish :palm:
...
Read?? Who can read when they have been blinded by the brilliance of your parts! lol!!
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Too right, sorry Rob totally missed it :doh:
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I read it Rob - seem to remember you wouldn't tell us how though ! :lol:
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Rob i bet your the sort of guy that does not polish his shoes? saves that for the bling in the workshop :)
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:lol: :lol: :lol: Cheers lads
I read it Rob - seem to remember you wouldn't tell us how though ! :lol:
Correct :D , got to have at least one secret ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if it makes you feel any better I have not let John DB or Micktoon into it either . :coffee:
Rob
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He is telling the truth :D and because I know Rob wont tell me I am pretending I dont want to know anyway :coffee: :lol: I bet John DB doing the same :clap:.... as far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong with satin black spray can ...... or if the part is really special .....chrome look spray can :lol:
I think Rob should do some sort of raffle and the prize would be his secret recipies :smart: :ddb:
:beer: Mick
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Apparently, satin "nickel finish" rattle cans are available, too. But I'm sure Rob electroplated his, using an organic emulsifier in the electrolyte, like the professional platers do.
As for me, I can't even produce a finish that is worth plating...
Andy
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Course you can - just finish whatever you're making then hide it under a plate....
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Very pretty Rob, :bow:
But does it work? :)
:beer:
DaveH
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Dun no :lol: :lol: :lol:
Edit , pressed save by accident
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Dun no
Well....... Come on, then! I'm quietly waiting, to find out......... :poke:
Superb, Rob. :clap: :clap: :thumbup:
David D
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Not using 'coin of the realm' as a source of cuprous-nickel are we Rob? :)
Bill
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Cheers David ,,,,,,,,,,, It maybe a wile before I actually use the fly cutter :palm: ,just thought I would make one no wile I was twiddling my thumbs rather than wait until I actually need one for a job .
Not using 'coin of the realm' as a source of cuprous-nickel are we Rob? :)
Bill
Hi Bill ,,,,,,,, I am just using standard Nickel anodes :zap:
Rob
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Hi Bill ,,,,,,,, I am just using standard Nickel anodes :zap:
Rob
Electroplating...Nice touch..
So where'd you scam them from then... :D
If you were a Scouser I'd call you a Scallywag...but be'n a Geordie I dunno what the noun would be.... :D :D
Still, a very nice finish to the product you built and designed...You're a credit to the forum in every way :bow: :bow:
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y'buggerman, springs to mind.
Chris
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...If you were a Scouser I'd call you a Scallywag...but be'n a Geordie I dunno what the noun would be...
I think it is still scallywag but you just need to add an expletive first!
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I know what it is but i can not say
John
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Is it bead basted first, then plated?
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...Is it bead basted first, then plated? ..
A bit like a turkey ?
Dave.
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Lol...yes, basted but then blasted!
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Dun no
Well....... Come on, then! I'm quietly waiting, to find out......... :poke:
Superb, Rob. :clap: :clap: :thumbup:
David D
Hi David
mmmmmmmmm it dose work ,like a charm :)
before
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060101.jpg)
after
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060107.jpg)
gives a canny finish , new mills not to shabby either :dremel:
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060109.jpg)
Cheers Rob
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Cutter an mill, in perfect harmony....... :thumbup:
Well done Rob! :clap: :clap:
David D
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Now, if someone could just teach me to grind a flycutter bit, I might just get some use out of the LMS set I bought 2 years ago. John (Bogstandard) tried, but he didn't get through my thick head... Even with several Skype sessions!
Near as I can figure, they're like a left hand lathe bit turned on it's side, but those I've tried didn't work!
Chuck
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I was completely convinced I was looking at renderings until I saw a hand in the picture. ;)
You obviously take pride in your work, Rob.
-Sparky
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Exellent work I enjoy following these projects it gives me a lot to think about as I gather tools for my project. How about a better pic of that vise it seems rather interesting!
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Exellent work I enjoy following these projects it gives me a lot to think about as I gather tools for my project. How about a better pic of that vise it seems rather interesting!
Tom - its already on here, though Rob wasn't flaunting his rendering skills then !
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,6731.msg72017.html#msg72017
Dave
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Cheers Lads :beer:
Well facing a few bits of inch bar is not much of a test I thought , so I tossed a decent lump onto the mill .
6 inches wide .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060110.jpg)
same feed and speed as before .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060112.jpg)
canny finish
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060115.jpg)
flat too , always a plus :lol:
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060116.jpg)
Rob
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:bow: :bow: :bow: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
John
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It seems to work ok!!! Know where to send cylinder heads in future.
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What speeds and feeds are you useing? and why does my fly cutter all ways make a slite concave sureface even though the mill is trammed to less then .001 over 10" ?????
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Could it be flexing David?
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Doubt its flexing, does the same thing when I cut wax :doh: its a very small amount of concave .001", seems about the same no matter how wide a piece is cut... Its been bugging me for quite some time now... hmm wonder if its collet run out... guess I need to check that....
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Hi David
What sort of mill are you using ?
I would not bother looking at collet run out , fly cutters are a single point tool so even if your collet had 30 tho run out is still going to rotate perpendicular too the spindle axis .
Rob
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DavidF
I could be all wrong on this but here are my 2 cents worth on this.
If your surface is .001 out at 2 inches width then it should be .002 at 4 inches and .004 at 8 inches. This is if the cutter has an effective cutting diameter of 8 inches or more.
You say its a very small amount of concave .001", seems about the same no matter how wide a piece is cut...
. if that is the case then I would be looking at the method and/or equipment that you are using to measure the amount of concave being cut.
What is the efective diameter of your cutter David?
Cheers :beer:
Don
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I have an old and clunky 1941 J bridgeport (with grease fittings) :palm: yes thats the odd part, the width of the face does not seem to make much of a difference..... I need to do some measuring, but i swear the concave surface is worse in the wax than the steel. Dont quote me on that one yet, need to go to the shop and verify. I havent fly cut in a bit and have a intake in the mill atm.
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Quality Rob :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:, sure the hell seems to work as well as look good :med:
Cheers Mick.
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Suppose it could be that. To be honest have never checked mine - it's probably worse! Presume you cut with the spindle fully up and locked and it was trammed in the same position?
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Suppose it could be that. To be honest have never checked mine - it's probably worse! Presume you cut with the spindle fully up and locked and it was trammed in the same position?
Yes, spindle up and locked. Hmm but I did move the knee.... now I wonder....
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You need to check the tram as you move the table, ie under the same conditions as your cut.
You may find the table wobbles as you move it because the gibs are loose or the dovetails are worn.
Just because it is trammed when everything is locked down and stationary doesn't mean it will be the same when the table is unlocked and is being moved :beer:
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Cheers Lads :beer:
Well facing a few bits of inch bar is not much of a test I thought , so I tossed a decent lump onto the mill .
6 inches wide .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060110.jpg)
same feed and speed as before .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060112.jpg)
canny finish
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060115.jpg)
flat too , always a plus :lol:
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060116.jpg)
Rob
Really nice.. but what im seeing is those orange clamping blocks you have there.. something bought or something home made? =))
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Doubt its flexing, does the same thing when I cut wax :doh: its a very small amount of concave .001", seems about the same no matter how wide a piece is cut... Its been bugging me for quite some time now... hmm wonder if its collet run out... guess I need to check that....
Is it balanced or does it run off-balance? If it's off-balance could it be momentarily pivoting the head slightly as it makes each turn?
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Hi Andreas
There are made by Carver a British company http://www.carver.co.uk/index1.htm click on Machine vice .
Took a few photos so you can have a better look
Fixed Jaw
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060264.jpg)
Moving Jaw
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060263.jpg)
They come with clip on covers
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060265.jpg)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1060266.jpg)
The set screw too the rear of each jaw is used to pull the work down onto the table .
Easy enough to make :dremel:
Rob
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I have an old and clunky 1941 J bridgeport (with grease fittings) :palm:
Erm, I could be wrong here, but as I understand it, no Bridgeport vertical mill should ever be greased - always oiled, even if it has what appear to be grease nipples (they're not, their oil nipples)....
If your BP is full of grease & has been for some time, it may well be worn in ways you wouldn't expect.
You may be looking at needing a full strip-down & re-scraping to bring it all back into alignment... I must admit, I daren't check my mill in case it needs that, I wouldn't know where to begin.
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Easy enough to make :dremel:
Rob
Yes they didnt look to hard to copy actually. One block is staticly clamped and the other is tightened before locked into the table.. shouldnt be impossible.. gonna give it a try. =)
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Hi Rob,
What is your insert spec.
Cheers David
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Hi David
The tip I am using are TCMT 16 T3 08-UM Sandvik , I have a few others I will be trying out .
Rob
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I use round ones on mine, 12mm dia. Just rotate a little as it wears.
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee286/Arbalist/IMGP1761_zps1d85c3ff.jpg)
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Hi Arbalist
Nice tool :thumbup:, did you make the TCT holder ? I have two boxes of round tip and was planning on doing same :dremel:
rob
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Yes, just counterbored the end of a bar and drilled and tapped it.