MadModder
The Craftmans Shop => New from Old => Topic started by: awemawson on January 28, 2021, 06:13:10 AM
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My recent resurrection of the Induction Furnace has encouraged me to dig out a pair of Alloy Analysers that I've had for ages - indeed in the Furnace thread there are examples of their use.
This has brought to my attention what a dreadful state they have got into - mainly due to the original case foam having degraded and bits crumbling all over the place. This isn't just cosmetic, it makes the instrument unpleasant to use and pack away, and physically difficult to get bits in and out.
So the plan is to entirely remove the instruments from their cases, give them a good clean up and replace the original lining with a modern neoprene closed cell foam - a square metre of which arrived by post this morning :thumbup: There are also the usual age related frayed cables and general wear and tear to redress.
The green perspex 'arc shield' on one has broken - I remember supergluing it a few years back. Superglue scraped back to perspex and cover clamped together and gluing as I type, this time using a perspex glue - the same stuff that successfully repaired the lube oil reservoir on the little Mirac CNC Lathe.
Now I didn't think that I had much in the way of technical information on these instruments so have been in touch with the manufacturers - Arun Technology, where their Finance Director is very kindly trying to find out what he can. It seems my instruments date from the late 1980's and Arun have moved twice since then and their archive isn't digital. However he is putting me in touch with one of their long standing Service Engineers when he returns from holiday.
When I opened up the second instrument, not only did I find that I have an operating manual, but partial circuit diagrams and a spare EPROM !
So before I start pulling them apart have a few pictures:
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So the first thing to do is remove the contents of the case and clean off the original heavily degraded foam lining and it's adhesive.
The lid has a complicated bit of metalwork in it retained by four screws that makes various compartments to store accessories. - it must have been an expensive bit of metalwork to make - nowadays it would probably be a plastic injection moulding.
The foam is held on by double sided tape - I have yet to find a solvent that removes it satisfactorily without removing the underlying paint work. Zippo lighter fluid (refined petroleum) removes the remains of the foam but doesn't touch the tape. IPA doesn't touch either, I daren't use acetone which happily removes the adhesive as it's equally happily removing the paint :bugeye: In the end I used Toluene, which softens the adhesive to a sticky mess that can then be scraped off, but it's not a very satisfactory process.
So the result of an afternoons work is the case of instrument #1 cleaned off internally with the lid inner frame also cleaned, but there is one cavity in the electronics unit that is the storage for the probe that remains covered in the old foam. I had hoped to be able to dismantle the framing such that the foam covered bits could be removed to be cleaned but it turns out that the cheeks of the cavity are fundamental parts of the structure. The foam will have to be cleaned off mechanically as I don't want solvents and sticky gunge all over the electronics. But that's a job for tomorrow - I have a head full of Toluene vapour so time to finish.
As I thought, the electronics is built round an 8085 microprocessor and is all rather nicely made with 1989 dated test labels everywhere.
I will treat the probe head as a separate unit as indeed it is, as it just plugs in.
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Yes, that is a product "of its time"! 1985 date codes on some of those old ICs, multicoloured ribbon cables, WIMA(?) film caps, TO-3 power transistors. Those were the days. As you say, seems to be from the late 80s judging by the date code on the micro.
I wonder how the sensor head works? Pretty sure you said it analysed the light spectrum but can't see any mention of it in the furnace thread now that I look - years of self abuse have clearly taken their toll on my eyesight.
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I think that the clever scanning bit is in the probe which I’ve never opened up, but I will be !
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Andrew, you are a lucky man to own that level of equipment. :beer:
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Years of hoarding, avarice, and scanning the small ads Steve :clap:
So I couldn't leave it at that, and came back out to the workshop and cleaned the foam and glue off the probe storage chamber - horrid job but it's now done.
Then I realised that there are two miniature fans amongst the electronics - both with degraded foam filters - so those got removed and new filter material installed.
If you see the holes in the side of the probe chamber - I think that those were ventilation through the OPEN cell foam that was originally installed as padding so I now need to think how to provide the same ventilation but using my closed cell foam. I may just cut corresponding holes in it!
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The probe 'arc shield' had glued over night so it got re-fitted.
Today's job: start gluing neoprene foam on.
Should be fairly straightforward were it not for two issues. Firstly putting it in restricted spaces is tricky as the pre-glued sheet sticks to anything it touches, and secondly, like a prat I put the main instrument into the case to draw an outline where the base foam is needed, fixed the foam, then realised that I'd put the instrument in at 180 degrees :bang: More foam removal and cleaning !
Eventually all back together so before I investigate the probe I wanted to prove that the main instrument still worked. I'm glad to say that it did and correctly identified 'LM2' as LM2 giving me confidence that I've not disturbed anything vital.
It was then that my five 8.5 kg ingots of pure aluminium were delivered. Pleasingly the analyser agrees with the supplier that it's 'LM0' so a nice confirmation that the results are reasonably accurate.
Irritatingly, having lined the 'probe pocket' in the case with what I thought was the same thickness (10 mm) foam I find that the probe no longer fits and I had to remove it - oh well you can't win 'em all !
So next item on the list is the probe itself - pull it apart and see how it ticks !
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So time to open up the probe head. Never been in here before - all I've previously done is make a repair to the umbilical cord using self amalgamating tape, and replace the window glass that protects the lens. This is no more than a lab slide 'cover glass'
So nothing ventured nothing gained - out with the Allen keys - carefully cut round the tamper seal - and see what we have.
Well as expected, rather a lot of electronics. The emission from the arc shines through the cover window, passes through a lens and enters a 'long black box'. The far end of this box has a 16 pin ribbon cable. Now I assume that there is a prism and the emissions are spread out down the 'black box' and impinging on a sensor of some sort.
I strongly suspect that the sensor is a 'CCD' or charge coupled device as I found a patent by the company using those devices for spectral analysis . Or maybe they have a sensor dedicated to each element that they are interested in - I don't know, and I wasn't prepared to dismantle the box or I expect the calibration would be all over the place.
Anyway I thought it prudent to carefully re-assemble it before I break it. I replaced the optical window and tested that it still works - phew - it does !
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A bit more information has come to hand.
Studying the scraps of circuit diagrams that I have, which are incomplete and fuzzy, there is reference to the CCD !
Also the instruction book has a description of what can only be my 'black box' - glad I didn't open it !
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Aha, so refraction to discern the different wavelengths (elements) and a CCD to place the position and amplitude of each.
Those electronics assemblies were the life's work of several people - many man years there!
So it was assembled and tested late 1990. Interesting / encouraging to see they are still in business. I wonder how their current products compare in terms of the technology in use.
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They've gone over to XRF analysis like everyone else, and from being a British company for decades I see from Companies House that their one Director is now Chinese.
The instrument that I've been pulling apart is amazingly well made and a work of art - I doubt that the bean counters were involved in it's development !
It's testament to the quality that it's still working at least 30 years on !
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Andrew, what size and shape sample does it use? I don't have a good mental picture of how it is loaded for a test, or where the electrodes are in relation to the test sample. Can you take a pic of what it looks like ready to test a sample?
Oh, also, I just noticed that the "protective windows" seem to be standard microscope slide cover slips. Cool! :thumbup:
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Steve I'm attaching a picture that may help. The 'heel' is rested on the sample and the graphite point is brought into contact to strike an arc.
So you can see it will work on quite a small sample.
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Thanks Andrew. I see. So you don't actually have to prepare a sample. This device is just placed against a metal object to do the analysis.
I've just read a really interesting explanation from 1922 of the then new science of quantitative spectrographic analysis, and since I know you enjoy reading this kind of stuff, too, here it is:
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ScientificPapers/nbsscientificpaper444vol18p235_A2b.pdf
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Thanks Steve,
You may have missed this thread that I posted some years ago about my analysers:
http://www.madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9244.msg102025.html#msg102025
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One of the issues that I find with the Analyser is that the sharply pointed graphite electrodes wear down very rapidly. The book say to use a new one for each test. Sometimes I can get away with using one electrode for two tests but not often. I think that the issue is that as the electrode wears down the discharge is no longer at the optical axis of the input lens.
It occurred to me that my other manual Analyser the Metascope uses a tungsten electrode that lasts a long time, so perhaps I can somehow create a suitable tungsten point. The graphite ones are 3 mm diameter and held in a tiny collet chuck, so I need to find a bit of 3 mm tungsten. Maybe a TIG rod. The Analyser limits the arc current to 6 amps and the voltage to 50V so I don’t think the difference in electrode resistance will be a problem
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Andrew,
I have several broken 3mm shank tungsten carbide end mills (or slot drills)
Would they work?
I could easily grind a point.
I guess you can't measure carbon or tungsten content of your material.
Phil.
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Phil thank you kindly yes that probably is a good way to go - PM incoming
(Picture attached of the 3 mm graphite ones to show the proportions - they are about 1/2" long)
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I came across this scholarly article on the use of pencil leads as electrodes for analysers - pencil leads were my first thought for replacement graphite points some years ago
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Have you read it all Andrew? :D
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It's good to get you off to sleep, and the original in Romanian is even better :clap:
Stick with the management summary and you'll be fine :thumbup:
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Phil Fern very kindly hand crafted an EXCELLENT tungsten point for me that arrived in this mornings post allowing me to experiment.
Sadly it seems that carbon arcs and tungsten arcs are different animals. I cannot maintain the arc at all with the tungsten, whereas with the carbon you can strike it and draw it out to a few mm length. I'd be interested in the physics of this if anyone has any knowledge that they'd be willing to share.
All is NOT lost though as this puts to bed a nagging thought that I've had for some years that this would be a possible way forwards. It isn't and I can put it in the 'shame but . . ' box and move on!
A big thanks to Phil Fern, you sir are a Gent :thumbup:
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Interesting, if disappointing.
Is the "carbon" electrode really just pure carbon? You'd imagine it might need to be although that would make it fairly brittle. That presumably makes material sourcing pretty difficult.
I know from my professional experiences that components such as motor brushes that are often referred to as "carbon" or "graphite" generally contain a range of constituents. In the case of brushes, this includes copper, ash, binding agents and other proprietary ingredients. Pity about the tungsten, as that is easy to procure in pure form.
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Murray, the genuine electrodes have a feel and consistency of a soft pencil. I've found a source of 3.1 mm '6B' pencil leads so when they arrive I'll experiment with those.
. . . it's amazing where these little project lead you !
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You are indeed entering new spheres here. I see our artistic friends even use 8B and 9xxB pencils, although not generally in clutch / mechanical format. The 6B seems to be the best available in 3.1mm, presumably the Faber Castell brand. Probably rather brittle to be any smaller or softer.
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If the pencil leads don't work out, I've purchased from this source before (for making graphite pistons):
https://www.graphitestore.com/Graphite/Plates-rods-and-tubes/Graphite-fine-extruded/custitem_shape/Rod
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Thanks Steve. I don't see why they shouldn't work. No doubt the binders etc will be different but they are probably organic.
Googling carbon arcs it seems that graphite vapourises at the arc temperatures so that is probably why it's easier to strike and draw an arc than with the tungsten point.
Pleasingly I did a test on some zinc billets today that I had from some previous work and it reported 100% zinc - of course it should, but this is the first test on a non aluminium based sample that I've done.
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Wasn't doubting an experiment in advance of results, I'm looking forward to the test. Just providing a source of reasonably priced graphite rods that I know of.
Speaking of pure zinc and aluminum ingot tests, is there a supplied standard sample or test method used to calibrate these analyzers? In reading about spectrographic analyzers for metallurgy online, I read that they need frequent calibration.
Even if not, comparing test readouts for the two type ingots will help show whether any new electrodes produce different readings than the original included ones. Clays vary in metallic composition, and I wonder if various binders have any effect. If they do, and it's minor they could probably be compensated for.
Of course, I'm speaking from a personal scrap melting, ludicrously non-analytical perspective, but I am nevertheless curious about analysis -- that to me would be a great boon. I would not refuse the kind of kit you have!
ps, my guess is that dissolution of the carbon in graphite contributes to the plasma in a way that tungsten does not. And that eating away of the electrode is a desirable quality.
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As I understand it, each probe head was individually calibrated and the appropriate settings put in a custom EPROM. The instructions emphasise that they are not as accurate as lab instruments and always refer to them as Alloy Identifiers rather than analysers.
One of my two instruments has a group of test samples (about 1.5" square) of different alloys for comparisons.
I'll be attacking the second instrument in the next few days, as I recall they have slightly different firmware but I'll bore you with reports as I progress.
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not boring.... :coffee:
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not boring.... :coffee:
Plus one for 'not boring'.
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plus another for not boring!!
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Hi Andrew,
Definitely not boring :wave:
John
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Carry on boring us!!
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You are all too kind - I imagine you all snoring in front of your PC's :lol:
I dug out the second Analoy 1401 - I know that it has worked in the last few years but when I plugged it in, although I could strike an arc I got no indication on the LED bargraph of signal (rather charmingly they refer to these led bars as 'candles')
A bit of poking around showed that some of the decomposing foam had got into the 25 pin D connector for the probe - a quick blow out with compressed air and not only was it now working, but giving identical results to #1 on my ingot of LM2 alloy. This is good news and gives me the confindence to pull it apart and give it the same treatment the analyser #1 got last week.
My purchase of pencil leads to potentially make some graphite points turned up. These are 3.2 mm 5B leads intended for a propelling pencil . Quickly cutting off the end of one to make an electrode and trying it I immediately saw that the arc was burning significantly more fiercely. the electrode itself starts to glow and is much more fragile.
The test results differed greatly from the correct electrodes with the proportion of silicon showing higher at 23 % and iron also higher at 6.1% Now there are are presumably all sorts of binders added to the leads, but another variable is where the electrode sits in the chuck. Due to the engineering of the collet a 3 mm electrode sits more deeply than these leads at 3.2 mm. Now I know electrode height affects things. When I've tried to re-insert a used electrode and held it so that it sits a bit higher (to make up for burn back) and over egged it so too much sticks out some elements disappear from the print out. Presumably the part of the CCD device devoted to those elements isn't receiving light.
. . .all very complex . . .
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Well clay definitely has silicon in it and often iron, too (particularly red clays) among other elements, and is a frequently used binder for lower quality "graphite" shapes. So though not a conclusion, is at least a possible explanation.
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Will it be possible to work out how much the iron and silicon increases and deduct it from the results or does this vary with the strength of the arc and from pencil lead to pencil lead?
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Good questions NRML but I don't have the answers !
I have some 2B true 3.0 mm leads on order so they will at least fit the collet better but I expect they also will contribute elements to the analysis. As Steve says the clay binder is sure to have at least Silicon in it.
I'd hoped that if I could find pencil leads of the same hardness and blackness rating I'd be home and dry but thinking about it different manufacturers will achieve the same rating suitable for artistic use and indistinguishable BUT using differing constituent elements :bang:
Ideally I need to find somewhere / someone that can analyse / grade / identify what the proper electrodes are made of - I'm keeping the used ones on the off chance I find someone.
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Andrew,
On AliExpress: "3mm*100mm High Purity Carbon Graphite Rod Bar For Electrodes ,Smelting, Casting ,Scientific research Material" 10 pieces for £8.44.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32739517670.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32739517670.html)
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Analyse a piece with an original electrode then test the same piece with a new electrode. Look at the differences between the two analyses and then rewrite the firmware :lol:
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Thanks Phil, I've ordered some but goodness knows when or even if they will arrive in these strange times we live in - at least if they are the purity that they claim contaminants won't be a problem.
Graham when I first got the Analoy's I thought about de-compiling the firmware - I've done quite a bit of 8085 coding in the past, but it's actually quite a daunting task going from binary with no idea what does what to a sensible assembler listing with meaningful labels. In fact it's rather like the 'Step 5' code for the Beaver TC20 lathe PLC that I did and took WEEKS over, but with rather less clues ! Though I guess there is a table embedded in there somewhere mapping 'CCD element' output to detected metallic element.
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I think getting reasonably high purity graphite will solve the problems.
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I'm hoping so Steve, but that's a few weeks away as the graphite is on the classic 'slow boat from China' - probably as well as I'm getting too many projects all running concurrently :med:
When doing soil sampling you mix it up in a jar, give it a shake and leave it to settle for a few days, and the differing particles settle out in distinct layers giving a good idea of composition.
I did wonder if I ground up a few of the used electrodes in a pestle and mortar with water and left them to settle it might reveal something, but being such a small sample would need to be in something like a small test tube.
Where the heck are my small test tubes :scratch:
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Carbon electrodes for welding or arc gouging might be easy to get and shouldn't have funny stuff in them.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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But not 3 mm diam I think ?
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I did wonder if I ground up a few of the used electrodes in a pestle and mortar with water and left them to settle it might reveal something, but being such a small sample would need to be in something like a small test tube.
That would be interesting. Have done same with soil... :coffee:
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A couple of positive results today :thumbup:
The postman brought two things for this project:
Firstly a 3 mm pencil sharpener - I'd never even considered that there were such things, but not only does it sharpen the graphite rods to a very suitable point, it, like me is left handed ! (there was the choice) and at £2.45 not worth mucking about with making something. Just need the right graphite now !
Secondly some scraps of green perspex to make a replacement UV screen for the arc discharge. The one I'd glued had broken again.
My first attempt was by tracing one of the original shields onto the perspex by hand, and with a combination of band saw, sanding disk and drill make a flat blank ready for bending. I made up a simple wooden jig as the bends have to be more than 90 degrees so that the shield grips the body. The shield is located by two pins projecting from the probe and it pivots on them as well, so the holes for these need to be aligned.
It didn't come out too well, and it was a this point I realised that the 'originals' were both hand made copies that not only differed from each other but either side of them was not a mirror image of the other!
OK draw it up in AutoCAD - I ported it to the laser cutter and cut a template from a sheet of gasket material to prove it fitted - it did :thumbup: So putting a bit of perspex in the laser cutter I set it going. The cut was SO smooth and even compared to my hand made effort. So into the bending jig having been heated with an electric paint stripper, and out came a very acceptable UV shield :ddb:
I will make two more while everything is set up, so both machines can have a decent shield and I'll also have a spare.
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Very nice Andrew! :clap:
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Two things Andrew,
First, I never knew that left-handed sharpeners were made let alone available.
Second, your left-handedness explains how and why you are able to dip your toes into so many things and come out winning. :clap:
John
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John it's fool hardy ness not left handed ness :clap:
I suppose a lifetime fighting against the system probably helps - you should have heard my Sgt Major yelling at me when we were doing Bren Gun training and I was doing it left handed. Much insistence from him for holding it right handed accompanied by words I didn't understand only increased by me pointing out that I HAD to sight it with my left eye as the other one was missing.
Oh was he pissed off when I actually scored pretty well in the squad both at 100 yard butts and 500 yard butts with falling plates :lol:
. . . then there was the Enfield No 4 where my left hand had to go over the charging port to operate the bolt . . . .but that was another story that did little for his blood pressure :ddb:
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Then there were three - one for each Analoy 1401 and a spare.
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I finished the (very) sticky task of removing the crumbling foam and associated double sided tape from the second analyser. Very much the same as the other one. This has 1990 stickers inside so is slightly later, but contrary to my recollection the firmware is the same according to the labels on the EPROMs.
One difference that I did notice is that the main body of the instrument is directly fixed to the case whereas the other one used anti-vibration stand offs.
Not started fixing the neoprene replacement foam yet, I need to let my head clear of the spirit / solvent fumes getting the double sided tape off. I'll tackle the new foam tomorrow when I get back from my Covid jab (Amusingly scheduled for 09:31 - not 09:30 or 09:25 but 09:31 PROMPT - remember the army are in attendance marshalling and doing some of the jabbing presumably with military precision :clap:)
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Good luck Andrew. Let us know how accurately timed the vet is!
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Andrew, i took pat for her jab the other day.. Be prompt arrive ten mins before your appointment 1139am:
***(Amusingly scheduled for 09:31 - not 09:30 or 09:25 but 09:31 PROMPT - remember the army are in attendance marshalling***
I arrived at the gate house :poke: at 1127am signed in parked and walked 200mts to the end of a cue, masked and distanced we
wobbled along this cue for 20mins. We then got to a person who took details and part filled in a form, gave us the form> we entered
another cue: we spent 19 mins in that cue: then we got to the entrance to the hall, cleansed and proffered the form to an attendant
who looked at it and pointed us to yet another cue: :doh: we wandered around this cue for around 20 mins, my head had gone by now.
Pat had her jab from a very nice School nurse, who then pointed us to the small cue for admin. The admin lady tx'ed every thing from the
form to a PC, handed us back the form and Pat's confirmation of JAB. then pointed us yet again to a cue. this cue was to the exit, but we
had to go through another toll gate the person looked at the form and said OW! your exit time ( 1227 ) has long gone you may go straight
to the exit :ddb: other people were having to sit for some time, i think to make sure they did not fall in a heap.. Good luck: Pat says she
just had an ache in her arm...next morning all gone. I go Sunday:
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So the new foam got glued in and I put it all together but it doesn't work now :bang:
Almost certainly broken cores in the umbilical cord - I found three and re-soldered them but I find fine work like 25 way D plugs hard going these days. I've put it to one side for the moment.
So I moved on to gas plumbing the Ceramic Chip Forge to cheer myself up :ddb:
(Vaccine jab went smoothly - I was first through the process this morning but why they were setting times to the minuter goodness only knows. I went in at 09:30 and queued for ages while staff milled about and eventually after 25 mins I actually had the job (Astra-Zenica) - they tell me that they are doing 400 a day at that centre - I'm sure that throughput could be doubled or trebled if an Engineer was in charge!)
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I must remember that holding method...
I found crimping was easier but still fiddly.
I find myself dreaming of a stereo microscope more and more...
-russ
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I find those stereo magnifying glasses essential now. Although my myopia allows almost microscope-like close inspection, I don't like the idea of poking myself in the eye with a soldering iron.
I have something like this although I forget where I bought mine https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/measuring-and-test-equipment/eye-loupes-and-pocket-comparators/led-head-loupe-lhl435/p/ZT1017436X?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=pla%2B%7C%2BMeasuring%20%26%20Test%20Equipment&utm_term=ZT1017436X&utm_medium=pla_css_2&targetid=pla-394272181161&loc_physical_ms=9046570&dev=c&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvP6ABhCjARIsAH37rbR45yrLHNqMrHcOV43_Vm3nLjHUWqmi5wkkP5k6XwjEiSGiyIikKGIaAn0YEALw_wcB (https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/measuring-and-test-equipment/eye-loupes-and-pocket-comparators/led-head-loupe-lhl435/p/ZT1017436X?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=pla%2B%7C%2BMeasuring%20%26%20Test%20Equipment&utm_term=ZT1017436X&utm_medium=pla_css_2&targetid=pla-394272181161&loc_physical_ms=9046570&dev=c&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvP6ABhCjARIsAH37rbR45yrLHNqMrHcOV43_Vm3nLjHUWqmi5wkkP5k6XwjEiSGiyIikKGIaAn0YEALw_wcB)
For workholding, I have one of those generic tilting vises you get with Chinese machine tools. The tilt mechanism allows orientation of the connector to a convenient angle.
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I haven't returned to looking at the Analoy yet but I did scan all the documentation that I have, comprising a 21 page 'Operating Instructions' and 7 pages of rather fuzzy faxes that I received back in 2004 from a service agent in Michigan of all places !
If they are not too large data wise then I will attach them as searchable .PDF's
No it seems that at 1.4 mB and 2.4 mB they are too large
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Andrew can you zip them smaller? Sometimes you can, sometimes it makes very little difference, depending on the compression level already.
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Sadly not, I've tried 'raring' them and 'zipping' them but the amount of compression is negligible
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What about splitting them into smaller parts? I can split and join pdfs in Puppy Linux if wanted -- though probably you can do that also, I'm guessing.
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I've put them on Dropbox - not done this in years so I hope that it works !
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/heimzy8kohwzjda/AAAfKloCUFZG_Zixewy7z43Ha?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/sh/heimzy8kohwzjda/AAAfKloCUFZG_Zixewy7z43Ha?dl=0
See if you can do anything with that Steve
(I'm not sure how long the link and files stay valid - presumably they must expire some time or Dropbox would over fill :scratch: )
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Okay, will give it a try. Part 1 of Circuits attached......
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Hmmm worked. Don't know if I can attach more than one per post. Will try here......
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Well....that worked. Okay.... in the two posts above, that's Circuits, parts 1 & 2 and the Manual parts 1,2, & 3. :beer:
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Well done Steve, so at least that’s there on the web if any other mad fool is searching for data :thumbup:
It’s a great shame that my ‘originals’ of the circuits are out of focus (faxed) and incomplete. I’ve no idea how I found that chap in Michigan all those years ago, it’s a heck of a long way from here !
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Muzzer, I do have something very similar to that head visor which is great but sometimes I'd like a bit more magnification.
-russ
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This is really interesting...Specially that sensor arrangement. Did I got it right?
1: There is a arc that heats sample metal hot enough to emit it's characteristic spectral output. Different materials emit different wavelenths.
2: There is a prism type contraption that fans out different light wavelenghts. Here wavlengths/spectral lines are physically spread out at different locations. ie. clolor wavelenth detection is not that important, but location/intensity.
3: There is a line scan camera, that is used to detect the wavelength as a postition of this fanned out light spectral lines and probably uses somewhat also intensity of these spectral lines.
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Russ - mine came with a selection of lenses (5?) and I find there's one (not sure which) that works nicely for me. I'm no longer caught between the work being too close (with glasses off) and too far away (with glasses on) where I can focus but can't make out detail. The alternative were those damned loupe things which drove me crazy. I must say it's been one of my better purchases!
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This is really interesting...Specially that sensor arrangement. Did I got it right?
1: There is a arc that heats sample metal hot enough to emit it's characteristic spectral output. Different materials emit different wavelenths.
2: There is a prism type contraption that fans out different light wavelenghts. Here wavlengths/spectral lines are physically spread out at different locations. ie. clolor wavelenth detection is not that important, but location/intensity.
3: There is a line scan camera, that is used to detect the wavelength as a postition of this fanned out light spectral lines and probably uses somewhat also intensity of these spectral lines.
Basically yes - the 'line scan camera' is a Charge Coupled Device in a single chip with 1728 individual elements spaced at 15 microns, conveniently making for a device almost exactly one inch long.
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Nice. Few hundred nm spread over one inch does not sound overly demanding on optics. Wonder if something like that would be possible to make modern off the self componenets. In 80:s that would have been very hard. I remember when fast line scan cameras started appearing on factory floor.
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I made one of these spectroscopes almost 20 years ago, though with a piece of 2" ABS tubing, a couple razor blades for a slit, and a CD. The DVD in the article should be a much finer grating.
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This one (at the bottom) is more like the one I made:
http://www.inpharmix.com/jps/CD_spectro.html
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Thank you Steve. That was really interesting and informative...I did not realize that CD can ge used as a difraction grating, alhough I have been looking at it and seen the difracted light when light hits that at angle. I have to show that to my daugher.
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A very interesting article. In the 60s a science/radio club that I was in undertook a project for a science fair. It was to be a scanning spectrometer. I had the task of making the slit, which I did, and it was fabricated from thin brass sheet cut into strip and rivetted together. The slit was to be adjustable. I wish I'd had more imagination back then. I could have saved myself an awful lot of time and trouble by using razor blades :doh:
Sadly we never completed the project.
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Major step forwards today. I have received an email from Arun Technology attaching PDF's of the full service manual for the Analoy 1401 complete with full circuit diagrams and blow by blow account of it's workings.
Far too large to upload here but I've put it all in the same Dropbox folder that I put the bits that Steve sorted out so here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/heimzy8kohwzjda/AAAfKloCUFZG_Zixewy7z43Ha?dl=0
I'd be grateful if someone can check that they can be uploaded by 'anyone' as of course Dropbox logs me in as soon as I go to the URL
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Yes they work for me. Look pretty useful - far better than just a set of schematics.
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Thanks Murray - much appreciated.
Now I need time to absorb the not inconsiderable amount of information in those PDF's, but currently stuck on the Ceramic Chip Forge !
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Phil Fern kindly pointed me to some graphite rods on Aliexpress a few days back, and I got the delivery of '3mm*100mm High Purity Carbon Graphite Rod Bar For Electrodes' the other day and at last have found time to try them out.
THEY WORK
So thanks Phil for that pointer - I made up an electrode simply by using my '3 mm pencil sharpener' and shearing off the rod at the correct length, and blow me down it correctly identified an ingot as LM2 which indeed it is :ddb:
This now assures a long term supply of electrodes - I bought 26 rods 100 mm long so should last a little while - and confirms Steve's suspecion that they needed to be pure graphite.
I've still not returned to the second (now dead) Analoy 1401, but with the book of words fault finding should be a lot easier.
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That's good news Andrew - glad to be of help.
I've been impressed on how quickly parts can arrive from China - usually a month earlier than they quote.
I received a set of ER16 collets and collet chuck earlier this week for my tapping stand. £15.72 inc postage (& VAT!). The only problem with them is that the 3mm collet is, despite the marking, in fact a 2mm and conveying that to the seller is proving difficult. I have sent a photo with a 2mm drill in the collet and with my digital (mechanical) micrometer displaying 1.97 and another photo with a 2.2mm drill not in the collet showing 2.17 - hopefully that will get the message over.
Cheers.
Phil.
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Well the good news continues: Another email from the contact at Arun (the makers of the Analoy 1401) saying that he's been talking to their Service Engineer who tells him that they have a box of spares and components still in their stores and would I like come come and rummage through them.
Is the Pope a Catholic :clap:
AND by the way they have more modern Spectrometers that they no longer sell, make or service and also have loads of components to make them and are they of any interest . . . well yes you bet
A 'post lockdown' trip coming up I can see :thumbup:
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I think you mean, is a bullfrog waterproof?
:drool:
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Well the good news continues: Another email from the contact at Arun (the makers of the Analoy 1401) saying that he's been talking to their Service Engineer who tells him that they have a box of spares and components still in their stores and would I like come come and rummage through them.
Is the Pope a Catholic :clap:
AND by the way they have more modern Spectrometers that they no longer sell, make or service and also have loads of components to make them and are they of any interest . . . well yes you bet
A 'post lockdown' trip coming up I can see :thumbup:
That's going to be fun!!
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Well today I ventured out on the longest journey that I've been on for 12 months of Covid incarceration. I went to Manor Royal near Gatwick to see Arun Technology at the invitation of their Finance Manager as previously mentioned.
A nice office / light Industrial Unit on the Brunel estate, all very neat and tidy with just four people working there ! It seems that they have moved on to marketing an analyser machine covering all major metals using UV diffraction. They had designed it, the majority of customers were in China, and the biggest customer has bought them, so they are now Chinese owned.
None of them had seen an Analoy 1401 'in the flesh' - only pictures of the outside. I was able to log on to Madmodder from their offices and show them what their predecessors had made including the whole thing dismantled.
They found it rather strange that an outsider was able to look inside their newest machine and postulate (correctly!) how it worked. Incidentally it's huge, over 100 kg, and not at all portable like my version.
Sadly they had absolutely nothing in their pile of old bits that pertained to my machine. I was hoping but not expecting, that they would have a spare umbilical cord, but no nothing of the sort so I'll have to fabricate one.
So was it a waste of time visiting - no not at all - they were very nice welcoming people, and their current product was very interesting to explore, and I was able to properly thank them for digging through their archives as finding the Service Manual which will in the future I'm sure be very useful.
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Major step forwards today. I have received an email from Arun Technology attaching PDF's of the full service manual for the Analoy 1401 complete with full circuit diagrams and blow by blow account of it's workings.
Far too large to upload here but I've put it all in the same Dropbox folder that I put the bits that Steve sorted out so here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/heimzy8kohwzjda/AAAfKloCUFZG_Zixewy7z43Ha?dl=0
Hi I have recently purchased some items from a tool auction and amongst it is and Analoy 1401 I wondered if you could advise me if they are worth anything at all please?
I'd be grateful if someone can check that they can be uploaded by 'anyone' as of course Dropbox logs me in as soon as I go to the URL
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I'm guessing Dropbox retires files after a period, but all the files still show for me on Dropbox.
No doubt your 1401 would be very useful to the right person. You're not far away, pop over and take a CD copy if you like.