MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: Darren on March 29, 2009, 06:22:41 PM
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Some of this will be old news to many of you, but for some, like me, it will be new.... :ddb:
Having visited bogs recently I had one of those light bulb moments when I saw one of his lathe tools..
Carbide inserts are advertised as having four cutting edges, but I could never figure out how to use two of them,
A pic tells all, buy a toolholder that turns the tip around !! There is another type as well. Most of us start with the one on the left, the right one is a SCBCR type.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1348.jpg)
Whilst out doing my "duty" with the missus yesterday (Saturday) I spotted these on the market. Some diamond coated thingamajigs, a little like cut off saws.
Don't the mind ever rest !!!
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1294.jpg)
I mounted one up to see if it would sharpen a tungsten tip. My "other" stones wouldn't touch carbide. merely polish the stuff.
Here's a well abused tip, well no tip as its gone....please excuse the state of the toolholder, that's what happens when the carbide tip breaks and the toolholder rams itself into the work....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1292.jpg)
Using a small wedge to set the angles
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1304.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1299.jpg)
And here is the result, nice and sharp it is too. The grinding looks coarse, this is just the macro photography getting up close. Bear in mind how small an 06 size tip is.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1308.jpg)
Add a slight radius to the nose
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1309.jpg)
Quite simply it worked, not only that it worked very quickly. The grinding is very fast and you need to be careful not to grind the tip away altogether !! Well, beyond any usefulness at least.
I recon you could get away with a couple of re-sharpens at least.
A nice cheap money saving tip...... :dremel:
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Good tip Darren (no pun intended), I have a load of those diamond cutting discs, never thought to use them in that way.
The tips should make good 'roughers', leaving the new ones for fine finishing work.
John
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Funny old world innit. :scratch:
I was looking at a set of those discs, only yesterday!
Decided I had no use for them....... ::)
Hmmmm.......
Thanks Darren! :thumbup:
David.
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Bet ya al' thought dis ere' tred wa done fa didn ya..... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Nope, been down in the cellar again tonight whittlin' away at some old bit of steel.
To start from the beginning, a nice new pack of these turned up this morning. You can see the 06 size on the left and some 09's on the right.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1349.jpg)
Six sides and double sided as well so you can flip them over. Cost £2.00 for ten inc P&P from Ebay.
These are quite a lot larger than what I'm used to and the current problem is I have no tools to mount them to. Add to that tooling in this size is expensive.
So why not make something?
This is an old tool bit that came with my Myford of many years ago. Well worn out and totally finished.
Can you see a plan yet? :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1350.jpg)
Milled a slab of the top front
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1353.jpg)
Drilled and tapped it to 3mm x 0.5, being very careful to put it on the right spot :thumbup: I made the thread slightly towards the back locating ridge to "pull" the insert nice and tight.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1355.jpg)
Fitted the insert to check all was ok. Then scribed along the edge for the next stage.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1360.jpg)
Setting the angle by eye. I use this HSS bit a lot, but it never seems to do any cutting :lol:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1361.jpg)
Nearly done
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1363.jpg)
Take the pointy bit off
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1367.jpg)
Done !!!
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1370.jpg)
It's hard to describe just how well this worked, a pic just don't say it but have a look at these while I sort a vid out
That's a 20mm steel bar, each step is one pass. And not particularly free machining either
Nice chamfer, which is what this tool was made for.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1373.jpg)
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I forgot to say, it cut so well I made two more to make a set...
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/IMG_1374.jpg)
Anyway, here's vid, sorry for the poor quality, only got my mobile phone.
It's a plunge cut into a 20mm bar, no messing, cut like butter. I don't have a parting tool that works as well as this !!
That's about 20mm of cutting surface....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/th_MOV00059.jpg) (http://s401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/?action=view¤t=MOV00059.flv)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/th_MOV00060.jpg) (http://s401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/?action=view¤t=MOV00060.flv)
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Blimey! Nice work Darren. The vids are fine too
David
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Nice job :bow:
silly question time :scratch: don't cutting tools need some sort of relief angle ?
being double sided must mean the cutting face is vertical
or does that only apply to hss tools
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These tips don't have a relief as you rightly guessed.
As to whether it will work like this I can only let you decide...... :ddb:
Seems ok to me though :thumbup:
Mind you, I haven't cut much with it yet.
BTW, these chunky tips will last forever, so much meat for so many re-sharps..... :lol:
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These tips don't have a relief as you rightly guessed.
As to whether it will work like this I can only let you decide...... :ddb:
Seems ok to me though :thumbup:
Mind you, I haven't cut much with it yet.
BTW, these chunky tips will last forever, so much meat for so many re-sharps..... :lol:
Seems to me you have proof of how well it works right there! Very nicely done. If you do find you need a bit of relief I would start with about 5 degrees down, 5 degrees left. I have a few cutters that use 0 rake inserts like that and a touch of relief made a big difference on my little 7x12. :mmr:
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Blummin well done Darren! :clap:
David.
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That worked well Darren well done :clap: :clap:
Stew
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Thanks for the comments guys, I think these are going to be quite useful... :ddb:
Had a go at making my first video Used the photobucket features for all of it. Basic but quite effective I think?
I have no idea why it insists on taking you to my photbucket account, but it will have to do till I can figure it out. Unless someone can spot why?
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/th_cda2edc1.jpg) (http://s401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Lathe%20Work/Carbide%20Inserts/?action=view¤t=cda2edc1.pbr)
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Great Vid!! I'm still amazed by the cut you take, that must be a good strong lathe..
How about a link back to madmodder.net in the titles of the next one :mmr:
Edit: Sorry it was there all the time :clap:, I dont think I have woken up yet this morning
David
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Nice one , Good idea, nice vid well done :headbang:
Peter :ddb:
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Thanks David,
The lathe has two windings on the motor for selecting two speeds, hi & low. It's rated at 0.75 HP & 1.5 HP.
I think, but not certain, that it uses both windings in parallel for low speed at 1.5HP and both windings in series for high speed at 0.75 HP.
That plunge cut was taken at high speed, about 1650 rpm in this case, (half the max speed) at 0.75HP. The tips are 15.5mm wide so the surface cutting area is about 30mm wide just before it breaks through.
I edited the vid in Photobucket but the package is a bit quirky. I'd like to try it in UTube, does Utube allow editing?
Anyway, I can't get the vid off PB as they don't allow it !!
Oh the joy of computing, why do they make it so difficult... :bang:
PS, I did put www.madmodder.net at the end in text, but can't seem to make this a link in PB.
So looking for other ways to make a vid, tough going when it's new to you.... :doh:
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Thanks for the comments guys, I think these are going to be quite useful... :ddb:
Had a go at making my first video Used the photobucket features for all of it. Basic but quite effective I think?
I have no idea why it insists on taking you to my photbucket account, but it will have to do till I can figure it out. Unless someone can spot why?
Darren,
I think I`ve come across this, in the dim & distant past....... :scratch:
Photobucket main page...... Account options, (top right).
Album settings..... (Down a bit, on left).
My album is (should be). [Private]
Good luck! :thumbup:
David.
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Thanks David, that helps, keeps the rest of my stuff private :thumbup:
Still takes you to photobucket instead of just playing the vid here. The other vids were ok, it's just this one that I've compiled?
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Thanks David, that helps, keeps the rest of my stuff private :thumbup:
Still takes you to photobucket instead of just playing the vid here. The other vids were ok, it's just this one that I've compiled?
Pleased I could help a bit Darren!
Frankly...... I know nowt about computerin. :scratch:
David.
Incidentally,
There`s a few too many Davids on here....... ::)
Is this a bit better?
David D. :wave:
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Nice job and well documented Darren.
I have just found this thread, after posting mine on the same thing this morning :doh:
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No Probs Mogas, the more the merrier.
At the cost of tooling esp with the bigger inserts I'm surprised more don't take up this option.
A few tools easily adds up in cost. Apart from it's a simple task to make them. Mine are mild steel and so far they seem fine.
It was good enough for Myford.... :ddb:
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Keysteel is a good substitute for a holder. It is a medium carbon grade, so a bit stronger than mild steel, and will stand up to most of what you want to throw at it. It is a lot easier to machine than standard toolsteel.
http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Keysteel.html
Bogs
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Dunno how I missed this post... very nice indeed Darren!
Eric
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Getting back to how Darren started this posting, little diamond discs. These are mine.....
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/p5220007.jpg)
Tried one on a carbide facing tool, it worked a treat! No more green grit wheels for me! :clap:
The only problem..... They`re a bit pifflin` at 16mm & 19mm dia. ::)
Does anyone sell larger ones, say 50mm dia? :thumbup:
Or, do the 115mm (?) angle grinder diamond discs work ok?
Anyone tried? I`ve got some new ones under me bench....... :D
David D
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Glad to see they worked for you David :thumbup:
Now then, about these angle grinder wheels, maybe you're in a good position to tell us how well they work?
I've been wondering myself,
Before I get dragged out shopping tomorrow if you please :) (so I can get some meself like)
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Glad to see they worked for you David :thumbup:
Now then, about these angle grinder wheels, maybe you're in a good position to tell us how well they work?
I've been wondering myself,
Before I get dragged out shopping tomorrow if you please :) (so I can get some meself like)
Sorry Mate, don`t hold yer breath......
I will machine a mandrell & give em a try....... Sometime...... :D
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Just can't rely on some peeps eh :poke:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I have seen somewhere where a chap mounted a 4" diamond cutting disc sandwiched up with his normal off hand grinding wheel, you know the sort of thing, take the nut off, slip on the cutting disc, put the nut back on.
He could then use the grinding wheel almost as normal, and on the side he had a diamond disc for harder stuff.
John
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Does anyone sell larger ones, say 50mm dia? :thumbup:
How about These (http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/DIAMOND_GRINDING_WHEEL_S.html)
CC
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I have seen somewhere where a chap mounted a 4" diamond cutting disc sandwiched up with his normal off hand grinding wheel, you know the sort of thing, take the nut off, slip on the cutting disc, put the nut back on.
He could then use the grinding wheel almost as normal, and on the side he had a diamond disc for harder stuff.
John
What a neat idea, I have a 9" one on my big angle grinder, amaizing what it will cut through. But I think I'd better not mount that one up :lol:
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Dave,
They are really specialist wheels, and need water really to do a good job. If used for hand grinding they will soon go out of shape and be ruined. Not really viable for what you are trying to achieve here.
I have a project for later, to use one of those for putting life back into carbide tips. But very specialised.
John
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CC,
Thanks for the link. I have used that type of wheel, in a toolroom, long ago. ::)
They`re now a little specialised for my present purposes.......
My thoughts were for a disc on a mandrel, to be slipped into the chuck when necessary......
John`s grinder mounting idea is a good `un too........ Hmmmm...... :scratch:
David D
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It so happens that in my current CNC lathe class we had a long discussion about carbide inserts.
The reversible type, with no rake, are generally held in a tool holder with a raked head giving a 3-5 degree angle. If you were to mill your holder slots at a similar angle they might work even better.
The other important factor is that the insert must be clamped to the holder very securely. Any movement while cutting will result in a chipped insert. Your holders look very snug.
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I appreciate that this thread is a bit old now, but as still somewhat a novice, I wanted to say thanks to Darren and Boggy for their help in explaining how to do this and what materials to use.
I have wanted to extend my somewhat modest collection of replaceable tip carbide tools for some time, but funds do not permit buying them new.
I got a set of 10 X 11mm Sandvik tips (TNMG 11 03 08-QM) from fleebay (a bit more 'spensive than Darren's)
(http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n354/klank_photo/Tips003.jpg)
and some lengths of 10mm keysteel from the source that Boggy recommended - very reasonably priced.
The keysteel machines beautifully - excellent value.
The screw hole in the carbide tips is only 2mm and I felt it too weak to drill/tap the keysteel for this, so after milling out for the tip, I "pinned" the tip hard against the milled step with a flush stainless steel 2mm peg and fabricated a step clamp from a scrap of old black steel I had in the bin-box, using an M4 skt. head bolt. I machined a thin step on the back end of the clamp step so as to fit in a slot filed on the keysteel to stop the clamp swivelling when doing up the bolt.
The result is not pretty to look at, but as a sort of "trial" it works a treat.
(http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n354/klank_photo/Tool002.jpg)
I tried it on a length of rusty old 50mm bolt from a scrapyard - it cut cleanly with no judder - provided the speed was kept up (800rpm).
Thankyou for the info
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Look what I got from Chesterfield market!
50mm dia diamond discs........ :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/p5300002.jpg)
The stallholder got them in special, after I had asked about them last week. :clap:
That will do nicely! :thumbup:
David D
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Look what I got from Chesterfield market!
Have they got that Spire untwisted yet :lol:
Stew
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Have they got that Spire untwisted yet :lol:
Stew
Nah!
We`ve given up on it now....... :scratch: ::)
I have a regular smile at tourists with cameras. Groups of Orientals are very entertaining, and polite!
David D
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For those of you who are mistified about Chesterfield spire follow this link.
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-51,GGLG:en&q=chesterfield+spire&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=As4kSti-Cpi6jAeXh-HfBw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title
It would be real cool if they fitted a nut to it :lol:
Stew
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It would be real cool if they fitted a nut to it
Now that would be funny.
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It would be real cool if they fitted a nut to it
Now that would be funny.
Not if you needed to drive past regularly. ::) :wave:
Everyone looks upwards at it now.......... :scratch: :D :lol: