MadModder

The Shop => CNC => Topic started by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 08:57:01 AM

Title: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 08:57:01 AM
I just took delivery of one of these yesterday - a Creality Ender 3 Pro. Came well packed with clear simple instructions (pictures, actually), all the tools you'll need to build and use it plus a SDcard in a tiny USB reader, which comes with the user manual and other software.

I had to adjust the z-axis motor mount with a small packing spacer cut from card plus I drilled the mounting block to get better adjustment to make the screw align properly with the z-axis rail. A minor niggle but worth mentioing. Apart from that and having to solder a cold joint on the DC power lead which made the wire come off the connector it went together well and is surprisingly rigid for what it is.

Operating instructions are sparse and since I literally know NOTHING about 3d printing except what I've learned in the last day I had to take a look online to clarify some of the settings. Thankfully, there's a huge amount of online support. I had read online that they come bundled with Cura slicer but mine didn't, instead it came with Crality's slicer which is specific to their machines (but can output other types of Gcode). I couldn't use Cura anyway as my PC is 32 bit, which also means I couldn't use Fusion 360 as I planned. Currently I'm using sketchup to draw 3d items and exporting them as .dae files for the slicer.

I printed some test prints to prove the bed levelling was good. I found that the bed plate was not truly flat but apparently that's because it was cold and they flatten out when heated. I also found that the default heat of 45 degrees for the bed and 195 for the nozzle were too low for the PLA and the tests prints were not sticking. I turned them both up 10 degrees and the alignment tests came out great so I kicked off a test print from the card. That came out far better than I was expecting so I was very pleased.

Attached is a pic of the machine busy working on my first own-made print, and the test print, a high-res dog that was already on the card ready to print.

Pete.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 09:25:57 AM
My very first printed design. It's a replacement for the brass table coolant drain for this surface grinder, or at least it would be if I had drawn it right. I'm going to re-model it to fill in the gaps and print it again.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the printing side of it. The machine printed an excellent raft that came away cleanly, and the part is well defined with nice sharp edges and dimensionally good too.

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 08, 2019, 09:48:03 AM
Pete,

Congrats on the Ender 3 Pro. They are awesome little machines.

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 10:00:30 AM
Pete,

Congrats on the Ender 3 Pro. They are awesome little machines.

Eric

Cheers Eric,

I see that you also have one. Do you print much on it? I can see this one running almost constantly if I'm honest, at least for now. I hope the 2kg of PLA I ordered turns up soon as I've nearly used up the sample spool that came with the printer.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: awemawson on December 08, 2019, 10:23:38 AM
Excellent Pete, glad you got it going. If you run out of PLA over Christmas I can probably find you a spool.

Will it handle ABS and PetG filaments?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 10:35:14 AM
It's ok Andrew, they are delivering it today apparently. Thanks for the offer though.

It will print ABS for sure I dunno about PetG but I don't see why not. Have to check out what temps are required. I'm going to keep knocking out parts in PLA until I've got used to the whole thing.

I've discovered that orientating the part is quite important for good prints. I drew my part in one orientation but it didn't print so well until I turned it 90 degrees.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 01:03:49 PM
3rd time lucky (with my design, not the printer. I filled the gap and made the bolt flange a bit thicker. It'll be sealed with sealant and screwed on by the original holes.

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 08, 2019, 03:54:30 PM
Thank you for showing. This is really interesting. I have been considering very long time getting some sort of 3D printer. My cold feet syndrome stems from a) Need for multiple plastic materials, although I know that standard PET would be smart starting point, but soft and translucent materials would give more use. b) Worried about 3D design program and CAM learning curve.

Wonder how much of an insvestment in time vise this sort adventure is.

You make it look easy.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: awemawson on December 08, 2019, 04:11:30 PM
Pekka, I had all those concerns before I jumped in with both feet and found that the water wasn't too deep or cold !

I specifically got and taught myself Fusion 360 which I find excellent, (and almost easy!) for three D modelling, but as Pete has discovered, it needs a 64 bit version of Win10 to run - I created a machine (ex corporate) specifically for is, and added a decent graphics card.

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 08, 2019, 04:14:51 PM
Thank you for showing. This is really interesting. I have been considering very long time getting some sort of 3D printer. My cold feet syndrome stems from a) Need for multiple plastic materials, although I know that standard PET would be smart starting point, but soft and translucent materials would give more use. b) Worried about 3D design program and CAM learning curve.

Wonder how much of an insvestment in time vise this sort adventure is.

You make it look easy.

Pekka the only skills I had up 'till yesterday was the ability to draw basic 3d with sketchup and (very) basic 2d with draftsight. Now you know that, you'll understand that is IS quite easy to just buy a printer and go. The slicer software is almost automatic, for my sort of basic purposes. I'd recommend that you just go for it.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 08, 2019, 04:41:26 PM
Thank you guys. I have a laptop running with Fusion, but I am nowhere any good with it  - yet. I need some continuous ti e with it, planning to get back to it when it gets a little easier at at work.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 08, 2019, 05:43:02 PM
Cheers Eric,

I see that you also have one. Do you print much on it? I can see this one running almost constantly if I'm honest, at least for now. I hope the 2kg of PLA I ordered turns up soon as I've nearly used up the sample spool that came with the printer.

I do. A few mods you should do to it... Replace the stock springs on the table, better bowman tube and connectors and go with the aluminum pieces on the extruder stepper (replace the plastic)

I was printing almost non-stop... but I started modding it. I am in the middle of replacing the main board.

It will print PeTG as well...

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: mc on December 08, 2019, 06:44:46 PM
The Ender's are good machines for the money.

I've had one for a couple months, but still haven't done anything practical with it.
I did order the glass bed with mine, which I find some prints stick to perfectly, yet others refuse to stick :-/
I think I need to spend some more time experimenting with bed temps, to find what works the best.

I did order the metal parts for the extruder motor and silicon buffers to replace the stock springs, but I've yet to install them. I did print a filament guide for the extruder motor, which probably takes some of the strain of the plastic, but I should really fit the metal bits.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 08, 2019, 10:21:23 PM
I got off my rear and installed the SKR v1.2 mainboard that I bought awhile ago... I can say this, the advertise it as being super quiet. It is. The fans are now the loudest things on the Ender 3.


Eric

FYI... here is a video of what I am talking about

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: AdeV on December 09, 2019, 03:06:06 AM
I also have an Ender 3, with the glass bed. So far, I've held of doing much in the way of mad mods - I did add a few trinkets - a couple of filament guides, some clips for the display cable, and that's about it...

I can confirm it will print PetG, I had some issues with getting the PET to stick to the bed (mind you, I have adhesion issues in general, with the glass bed...), I found a smear of stick glue (Pritt Stick to us Brits, other brands are doubtless available) really helps: Sometimes, a bit too much!

I've not printed a lot of "useful" things on mine yet, but I did print a complete Liberator spaceship model (from Blake's 7), the PetG is a translucent green for the globe on the back. A couple of the prints went awry, e.g. when the raft lifted mid-way through; and one of the globe prints had to be aborted half way through when, during an overnight print, it broke free of the bed & ended up embedding the extruder in a huge blob of plastic  :bugeye:

I do have some prints which I'll be doing soon which are actually useful... I also want to do the spool spindle mod, although I've not knowingly encountered any issues with the spools yet, they do move somewhat jerkily, and the filament is often fairly tight between the extruder and the spool... so having it run on bearings will be a good mod, I feel. Plus it'll take the pressure off the filament guides, which are only push-fit 3d-printed items.

Having a 3D printer is a lot of fun!
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 10, 2019, 11:21:56 AM
Well, I'm still crocked after nearly taking my finger tip off with a wood chisel so I've been putting some work into drawing and printing parts. I find it hard to just 'come up' with ideas so I've decided to make a working model from a 125 year old patent.

I won't reveal what it is until it's finished but feel free to guess :D

Here are the first parts.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 10, 2019, 01:29:39 PM
Thank you guys. I checked some videos of this Ender 3 Pro and looks like me and my daughter are getting this one 50/50%. It's all your fault influence. Daughter will print some small parts for anime armor/features. Would be nice to be able to print soft tabs and joints. For me this is going to be motivation to learn Fusion and maybe later to advance to CNC machines.

Q: What else do we need to get started on Christmass holidays? Several reels of neutral color filament? Some easy filament to start and some different materials o test dice size parts?

Pekka
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 10, 2019, 03:09:50 PM
It'll come with a small loose spool of PLA which is enough for a handful of prints, probably 4-5 hrs printing. A 1kg reel will have over 300m and last you a good while. I bought a reel of white and a reel of black but I sometimes with I had bought a colour so it would be easier to photograph.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 10, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Thank you Pete!

1.75mm PLA?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 10, 2019, 03:34:44 PM
Yes 1.75.

I draw my parts in Sketchup but fusion is reportedly much better for it. When you get the printed it'll have a SD card included with instructions and slicer software on it.

If you are going to use Sketchup let me know as I have found a couple of ways to avoid tripping yourself up.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Joules on December 10, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
Nice to see more printers being acquired and used by MadModders.   Out of interest, if you want the maximum performance from your filament, pick natural as it contains no pigment.   The pigments contribute nothing to the performance of the material.  That being said, white is my preferred for outdoor applications and natural for components not on view.  I have done quite a bit of work making hybrid parts, inserting Delrin or metal where parts are in contact and need to slide or act as a sear or bearing

They are a fantastic tool for prototypes and speeding up product development, or even production parts in their own right.  I hope you all thoroughly enjoy your printers.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 10, 2019, 05:37:12 PM
Hey Joules,

Is there any way to print stacked parts that move relative to each other without using dissolving filament? I've tried spacing them apart but my slicer won't print supports in the gaps. I ticked the 'anywhere' box for supports but I think the gap is too small to be recognised as a gap, either that or the slicer doesn't 'see' the space between two solid models.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Joules on December 10, 2019, 08:36:15 PM
Pete, you have to start designing your own support that can break away so captive parts can then move.  Takes quite a bit of experimentation as filament that isn’t properly supported can droop and weld to the near surface.   This is mainly why I design as separates, print then weld the parts together using a temperature controlled iron.

I find quite often that auto generated support isn’t very adequate in complex designs, hence design it into the 3D model rather than auto generate.  Think tree structure and 45 degree branches or single (0.4mm) support shell if that is your nozzle size.  You just need to be able to get in and snap it away.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 10, 2019, 08:55:14 PM
Cheers, I kinda figured I was flogging a dead horse.

Well, here's my first 3d printed working model. It's a Balzer cutter relieving attachment. Does the same thing as a Eureka machine, if you know what one of those is. Some of the parts have printed a bit rough due to the raft leaving a cross-hatch pattern on them but other than that it's fully working on the hand-crank. I took the details from the original 1895 patent.

I wonder what old Balzer would have thought of 3d printing, back in the day?

Kinda chuffed with this as up until 4 days ago I hadn't even seen a 3d printer in the flesh. This has three gears that mesh, but one has two different DP on the same gear and the small gear has a different pressure angle to either of the big ones :D


 
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: mattinker on December 11, 2019, 03:42:51 AM
You have every reason to be chuffed!
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: chipenter on December 11, 2019, 01:50:17 PM
Where do you mount the cutter ? I made the Ureka had to run it backwards otherwise it ran away with itself .
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 11, 2019, 02:00:07 PM
No cutter Jeff this is just a model. The pointy bit on the post below the peg is supposed to signify the cutting tool, but it came out somewhat short of where it should have been. One of the things I have to tweak.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 12, 2019, 10:47:18 AM
I've finished all the parts now, done a few tweaks and just got a couple of test prints.

Where is the best place to publish this so others can download and print it?

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 12, 2019, 02:09:43 PM
Hi Pete,

You might be able to attach it here. I have to check what the settings are...

Otherwise, there are 2 places that I can think of:

Thingiverse (https://www.thingiverse.com/) or My Miniature Factory (https://www.myminifactory.com/)

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 12, 2019, 02:30:49 PM
I'll have a look at Thingiverse Eric. Don't want to hammer your bandwidth by attaching 20mb of files.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 12, 2019, 03:12:54 PM
I'll have a look at Thingiverse Eric. Don't want to hammer your bandwidth by attaching 20mb of files.

No worries. I think at both places you can set it up so people can 'tip' you when they download.

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 13, 2019, 04:21:21 PM
Hey all,

My Balzer working model is live on Thingiverse:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4043256
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: chipenter on December 14, 2019, 02:36:38 AM
Thanks Pete I will try and make this in steal , I use the ureka in my mill and it is very slow , this design looks smother and more controllable .
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 14, 2019, 05:10:59 AM
Form relieving is very slow regardless. I had thought a couple of times to build a proper working version but I didn't want to invest the time into making the split-DP gear several times to find a working combination. the printer makes that much easier.
Also this tool will ONLY produce 15-tooth cutters, unless you find some combination of gears that will offer a different advancement to the 60/4 teeth. I'll have a think about that.

Perhaps printed gears with 100% fill would be strong enough for a working machine? I shall investigate that...
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: mattinker on December 14, 2019, 05:17:26 AM
Pete,
an interesting ambitious "first" print! I don't understand how it works, but I'm impressed!

Cheers, Matthew
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 14, 2019, 06:01:37 AM
Thanks Matthew.

The secret is in this gear, it has two different tooth pitches on each half. The top half has 30 teeth and the bottom 26. Because the small gear rolls around meshing with both big gears all the time it 'drags' the normal 60-tooth gear forwards 4 teeth each time it does the bottom-half rotation on this special gear.
 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/neygd17rwu4wgrk/Balzer%20reliever%201.mp4?dl=0
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: mattinker on December 14, 2019, 06:48:15 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 15, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
3d printer earning it's keep again. This time I wanted to remove a stop button from it's housing and fit it to a steel plate more in keeping with the machine. Junking the housing meant that I had nothing to fix the switch to, so I knocked upa  quick design and printed one.

I even incorporated 3 tabs so the switch mount could be used as a spanner for the plastic nut.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: awemawson on December 15, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
Dead handy aren't they Pete !
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 15, 2019, 07:06:48 PM
You're not kidding Andrew. I'm printing a cable clamp right now. Handy as a handy thing with 2 pairs of hands.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 16, 2019, 11:33:43 PM
Mine has been running almost non stop since I replaced the mainboard... Christmas is coming and I am making a few gifts.

Pete... What are you using for a slicer? I have been using Cura, however, I am a little unhappy with it. Been reading that people go from good prints to amazing by changing over to Simplify3D (https://www.simplify3d.com/). Costs money, but I have been thinking of making the switch.

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 17, 2019, 03:57:34 AM
I'm using the bundled slicer because most of the modern software won't run on my old 32-bit PC. It's cura-based far as I know.

I'll have to upgrade this PC and get some more powerful software.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Joules on December 17, 2019, 04:14:23 AM
Guys, give PrusaSlicer a go before parting with money.  I have been a long time user of S3D, but recently moved over to PrusaSlicer full time.  It has the added advantage of being free.   Not happy with the direction and slow development of S3D, they are trying to move to a subscription and cloud based model.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 18, 2019, 02:52:06 PM
Unlike Joules, I went the other way.  I starting out using the Prusa slicer for a year or two and liked it a lot more than Cura.  But, two things that I didn't like about it were what it did with thin wall perimeters, and the way it handled supports.

I don't know if they've changed it or not, but when I was using Slic3r, if it could not completely fill the perimeter of a thin wall, it left a void in the perimeter.  Using a 0.4mm nozzle, if I tried printing a 1mm wall I wound up with the outside perimeters that were a single filament wide, and a void between them.  Simplify3D will go back and fill the void.  Maybe there was a parameter that I could have changed to fix this, but at the time I didn't know the secret of how to fix this.

The way it handled supports was my biggest gripe about the Prusa slicer, or regular Slicer for that matter.  When supports are used it lays down a complete solid platform under the area needing support.  This is great for the area needing support, but it makes it much harder to remove the supports after printing.  If I remember correctly it applied the same number of top layers to supports as it did to the rest of the model.  Again, maybe there was a way to change this, but I didn't find it.  It might have been so easy to do that I just overlooked it.

One of the things that I really like about Simplify3D is how easy it is to properly orient a model to the build plate.  If you haven't used it before, you simply hit CNTRL-L and then click on the surface you want on the build plate.  I found out about that one from Clough42 in one of his videos on YouTube.

Don
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 18, 2019, 03:40:33 PM
I ordered Ender 3 pro too.

Do I start my own thread or butt in?

I have dabble with Fusion360, not much and I am not sure f that licence still works - I have heard that thye have changed hobby licence.

Anyway I ordered the printer, few reels of PLA and PETG. Also a reel of soft filamet (that normally would not work on bowden feed machine, but it's harder Shore A95 and they have thested it with this printer - might work).

What do I print firts to check dimenssional stability?

My first real project will be  Clough42 Lathe Electronic Leadscrew Control Panel


There is an operating dongle and in final version buttons are printed with Ninja Flex, but enclosure is milled. I don't have cnc engraver fot the text, trying to cook up something.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3740612

Straightes way from point A to point B?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 18, 2019, 03:50:36 PM
I ordered Ender 3 pro too.

Do I start my own thread or butt in?
....

Good question. It is up to Pete as this is his thread.

I am up for starting a general 3D printing thread to carry on.

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 18, 2019, 05:49:23 PM
Pile in the more the merrier!

For a test part I drew a 20 x 20 x 20 cube with a 12mm hole through it one way. I've found that all the holes I print come out about 0.25mm small. The cube came out 0.1mm large.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 19, 2019, 02:08:45 AM
Pile in the more the merrier!

For a test part I drew a 20 x 20 x 20 cube with a 12mm hole through it one way. I've found that all the holes I print come out about 0.25mm small. The cube came out 0.1mm large.

Thank you.

I am concerned on hole spacing on X/Y plane. Those tolerances you mentioned sounds pretty good.

Noob question: On features that has to fit (or snap) together, how do you adjust dimensions to reach the required fit? And where do you adjust it? Nominal hole/rod size on Fusion and corections on slicer or is there an additional step?

Pekka
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: ddmckee54 on December 20, 2019, 01:56:31 PM
I don't know about everybody else, but I know that I completely forgot to allow for shrinkage.  Everything expands when it get hot, and contracts as it cools.  We're printing at 200°C or more so you're talking about at a 170°C temperature differential from the ambient temperature.  With PLA I think the shrinkage is about 4-5%.  Clough42 mentioned this in one of his videos where the hole spacings were off in both X and Y.  Most slicers have a scaling parameter that you can use to scale all the axis to correct for shrinkage.  You tell the slicing software to scale your part to 104-105% and you've just compensated for shrinkage.

On my first printer I had an issue with the Y axis, it was 4-5% short of what it should have been.  I needed to modify the steps/mm, but I didn't have the source code for the version of Marlin that came on that machine - still don't.  By doing a LOT of on-line research I found that my machine would accept the M-code commands to modify the steps/mm settings via the G-code file.  There are freeware packages out there that will allow you to send M-code commands to your printer and it will tell you what the current settings are.  If you are printing from your PC, and not from an SD card then you are already using one of these.  I added a couple of lines in my slicer that modify the steps/mm settings in the G-code sent to the printer.  That way I'm always telling the printer what it's correct steps/mm are.  This is all assuming that your machine is using a Ramps board and an Arduino to run your printer.  If you've got something else, then you're on your own Bubba.

Don
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: WeldingRod on December 21, 2019, 10:23:25 AM
Small round holes pull in, with less effect as the hole gets bigger.  Hexes have very little pull in. 
Nophead did the basic research on this one... very interesting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 22, 2019, 10:48:32 AM
Good info. Just got Ender 3 pro and it is printting the first print. Instruvctionst that came with it were not complete, but I got there.

I need to find test print to check table level and height....I think I have seen some examples.

Looks like first thing it needs is a filament guide to rout the filament off the Z-axis screw.

Now the slicer? I came with it's own. Have to search a little of it.

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 22, 2019, 12:05:28 PM
Mine gets close like that too it doesn't cause any bother.

What I have found is that stuff that prints beautifully in white comes out a mess in black with the exact same settings. Same make filament just different colour.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: WeldingRod on December 22, 2019, 02:52:23 PM
Yeah, that's why 95% of my stuff is blue..
  Plus, that's the Redacted company color ;-)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: AdeV on December 23, 2019, 01:51:26 AM
What I have found is that stuff that prints beautifully in white comes out a mess in black with the exact same settings. Same make filament just different colour.

Snap. I've taken to writing the bed & extrusion temps that work well on each reel of filament...

I've also taken to using glue stick on every print, I'm really having trouble with bed adhesion otherwise.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 23, 2019, 08:45:53 AM
Snap. I've taken to writing the bed & extrusion temps that work well on each reel of filament...

I've also taken to using glue stick on every print, I'm really having trouble with bed adhesion otherwise.

Do you have the glass bed?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 23, 2019, 10:33:59 AM
Got Creality slicer workking....it looks like it is based on cura. Downloaded bed level test and scaled it down to more close to bed size in the slicer. First try showed that the bbed was not leveled. Second print came out ok, on bed level but still had some issues. I think I am downloading cura and try that.

Bed is now leveled, but X/Y size is off. 100 mm according to slicer and 110 mm according to mr. Mitutoyo

Pekka
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: AdeV on December 23, 2019, 12:11:59 PM
Snap. I've taken to writing the bed & extrusion temps that work well on each reel of filament...

I've also taken to using glue stick on every print, I'm really having trouble with bed adhesion otherwise.

Do you have the glass bed?

Yep - I find the glass bed is worse for adhesion than the standard bed.... and that's even after I've given it a good washing down, first with alcohol, then with hot soapy water, then with plain water... It will grab PLA, most of the time, PETG was a disaster. Using the gluestick however, and everything stays thoroughly welded down... to the point sometimes of being difficult to remove!
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 23, 2019, 06:05:04 PM
Glue stick with glass? Have been tempted to try it....
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: AdeV on December 24, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Glue stick with glass? Have been tempted to try it....

It works brilliantly - just make sure you cover the bits you're going to print on!  I can usually get away without it with PLA, but it was essential (even with a raft) when I tried PETG.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 25, 2019, 05:30:08 PM
I was checking PETG extruder and bed temperature...

Bed temperature is no problem, but does it stick too hard on the bed? Tried to get some tips, but mostly got harspray or blue masking tape on glas plate ....but Ender 3 has this magnetic mystery plate that works for PLA, but PETG sticks everything like there is no tomorow - I have heard.

Looks like hot end max temperature of the stock Ender 3 Pro printer is bit marginal for PETG. But what is needed?

How much of of the good stuf is too much?
https://hackaday.com/2018/03/18/3d-printer-halts-and-catches-fire-analysis-finds-a-surprising-culprit/
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete49 on December 30, 2019, 02:50:24 AM
I use el cheapo womens hair spray on my glass beds both the abs printer and the pla one with excellent results. Iput 5 to 7 layers on and its good for several prints before topping off with 1 :mmr: coat now and again.
Pete
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Joules on December 30, 2019, 08:58:43 AM
I don't think I would get away referring to the wife like that Pete.

3M Blue painters tape, a wipe over with isopropanol and most plastics stick to it.  The advantage is the tape can be sacrificial, if you print PETG on glass the bond is so strong it will pull chunks of glass off the plate.  Water soak, and the blue tape comes away in worse case.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 30, 2019, 10:34:55 AM
I can confirm that PETG sticks like there is no tomorow. It is also whole lot fussy on every known print setting - compared to PLA.

One PCB holder took three tries, Even first one was usable and stringing was easily cut out - but it was not pretty when printed.

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 30, 2019, 11:31:59 AM
Pekka

That was printed with an Ender 3?

Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 30, 2019, 06:41:07 PM
I printed these today. A few years ago we bought a metal shed to keep garden stuff in. The doors hung on plastic sliders which weren't very strong and used to bind when sliding. Eventually they broke up and the remnants are so brittle you can crumble them with your hands.

So these are the replacements, I made them longer so they are less likely to cock and bind. Only 3 shown here because I printed the first to make sure it fits.

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 30, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
Pekka

That was printed with an Ender 3?

Eric

Yes. Ender 3 Pro with new Cura and PETG.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 31, 2019, 01:39:51 AM
Annother part: Control panel lid for ELS. This was weird experience: First two tries did not stick. Usually everything sticks to ths surface, but last few times PETG stuck really hard to it and I had hard ime removing the remainers, I tried to take them carefully with spatula, but I can feel that I have scraped the surface pretty smooth. I washed the surface with soapy watter and then wiped with isopropyl alcohol, and adjusted the bed level once more.

Then without any clear reason, the third try was a charm. Although I can see some inperfections, most notably some marks from previous prints.

Actual print time of this one was 3 hours, 20 minutes, pretty close to estimate.

Pekka
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on December 31, 2019, 04:39:48 AM
That has printed very nicely.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: AdeV on December 31, 2019, 01:39:29 PM
I can confirm that PETG sticks like there is no tomorow.

My experience was the exact opposite - no grip at all on the glass bed, even with a raft.

Just out of curiosity, what are your bed & extruder temps for PETG, and what bed did you use - the glass one, or the regular "rough" one?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: tom osselton on December 31, 2019, 03:40:42 PM
Curiosity here could you raise the temperature of the bed to help the petg release?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on December 31, 2019, 05:01:48 PM
I tried two different bed temperatures and even douced the bed in the end with cold water.

I use the standard rough magnetic surface from Ender 3 PRO.

New try Today with flexible material Ninjatek Cheetah TPU 95A. Standard settings, but bed 40C and extruder 228C. 40% infill produced too hard buttons, checked Clough42 videos and dialed accordingdgly down to 20%, which looks pretty funky inside (could be mistaken with stringing).

Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Will_D on January 02, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
So after a slight delay with North Pole freight deliverys my Ender-3 arrived.

Very impressed with overall construction.

First rule is to watch a good build video as it explains how to check all the mechanical variables that need tweeking.



Took best part of the day to get it built. Then half a day to get the bed level!



Bed leveling test prints eventually came out spot on.

Now most people complain about poor adhesion to the hot bed, exact opposite for me. Finding it hard to remove these thin test prints.
Its the black textured removable bed not glass

Bed too hot, too cold or what. Should bed be back at room temperature?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on January 02, 2020, 09:49:41 AM
I found that using a small engineer's square made it easy to build it square. Even though it does fit up nicely and becomes very rigid once bolted together the square shows that it's possible to get the pylons skewed.

Did you have to adjust the z-axis mount? Seems to be a common issue. I drilled mine out a bit and shimmed it too, also had to make sure I didn't tighten the travel nut up solid.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on January 02, 2020, 01:47:13 PM
My (limited) experience on Ender 3 Pro magnetic peel surface is that it works really well on PLA and under 70C bed temperature when leveled well. Looks like thinnest copy paper thickness (0,12 mm) between nozzle and bed is too little, bit more and no problem with addhesion or braking free. I have used around 60C bed temperature for PLA, but it might depend on filamet you use.

PETG gets stuck and very hard to remove, I spoiled my original magnetic peel surface, while I tried to remove all PETG with spatula. It might have been also too high bed temperature. I haven't found on manual any guideline for maximum bed temperature, but I have found some anecdotal information that over 70C is not recommended.

I ordered new magnetic surface and a surface that is suposed to take better heating and beating. I haven't got them, but I'll get back when I have some experience.

Pekka
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: ddmckee54 on January 03, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
Pekka, we may have read the same anecdotal information, I've read that some of the more exotic magnetic materials will permanently lose their magnetism between 80°-100°C.

I've got a Prusea I3 clone and a rebranded Wanhao D6, and I mainly print PLA.  I ALWAYS used blue painters on the I3 and had no problems with the part no sticking to the tape.  When I got the D6 clone about 18 months ago, I naturally used blue painters tape on it too. 

On both printers, with larger parts I would have trouble with the corners of the part pulling up off the bed.  The part wasn't pulling off the tape, but the part WAS pulling the tape off the bed.  Eventually I determined that the D6 clone came with a print bed that I could print directly onto.  I normally print PLA, and it would not stick to the print bed.  I got an Elmer's glue stick, and we were off to the races.  The only glue stick I could find was the purple Elmer's kid safe version.  Since I started using the glue stick the only times I've had trouble with bed adhesion on the D6 print bed are when I didn't refresh the glue often enough, or I tried printing on an area of the bed where I hadn't applied the glue.  I'm seriously considering getting a replacement D6 print surface for the I3's print bed, it's less than $20 and they're the same size. 

I use the sharpened metal putty knife that came with the D6 clone to remove the parts.  One thing that I've found about removing the part - as the heated bed cools it will be easier to remove the part.

Don

Don
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on January 03, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
Pekka, we may have read the same anecdotal information, I've read that some of the more exotic magnetic materials will permanently lose their magnetism between 80°-100°C.
....

I saw that one too. But I am more worried about the surface interaction with filamet at elevated temperature. I also tried to find out what chemicals can be safely used for cleaning the print surface without damaging it. I read  that IPA and soap water is safe. I can confirm they are safe. I also read that acetone is bad for it.... didn't try that.

Because the (missing) manual does not say what is safe to use for the print surface AND remove PETG. The surface works exceptionally well for PLA, but PETG sticks to it way too hard. Maybe I should try glue stick or hair spray?

Pekka
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Brass_Machine on January 03, 2020, 05:06:35 PM
Found this on all3dp (https://all3dp.com/2/ender-3-petg-settings-profile/)

Quote
Build Surface

The standard Ender 3 build surface, BuildTak, is the ideal surface for printing PETG with the Ender 3. This material will allow you to have excellent adhesion while providing a more natural way to remove the print due to its flexibility. But be warned: An initial layer height that is too small can cause PETG to fuse to the print bed, making it easy to damage.

If you have equipped your Ender 3 with a glass build plate, you should watch out. PETG is notorious for sticking to the glass so well that it fuses to it. This fusing can be so strong that it removes chunks out of the glass bed, permanently damaging it. If you choose to use glass, use a thin layer of hairspray, glue stick, or specialty bed adhesive.

Covering the Ender 3’s print bed with blue painter’s tape is the best and easiest way to get PETG to have a secure bed adhesion as well as ease of removability. We recommend this method as your default.

Another good option is Kapton tape. This tape will give you the same benefits of using blue painter’s tape, but might not have the same amount of adhesion.


Eric
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on January 04, 2020, 06:09:42 AM
Thank you Eric. That confirms my experience.

On one ocasion extruder nozzle was too low when I used PETG (but only for skirt) and I can confirm that it REALLY sticks to it. Previous prints with PLA were fine and I did not check the bed level. Still, not sure why the bed was on correct level before and then too close on next print. Same location, same homing, only bed temperature raised from 50->80C.

But also at 80C even when first layer is extruded close to 50% of nozzle diameter (I.E. gap between nozzle and bed is 0,20 mm and nozzle d is 0,40 mm) it sticks to bed uncomfortably hard.

I must say that I had practically non used bed before PETG, I only had used sample PLA filamet prior to experiment and used standard setting with very minor modifications.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Pete. on January 04, 2020, 09:07:57 AM
Quote
But be warned: An initial layer height that is too small can cause PETG to fuse to the print bed, making it easy to damage.

I wonder, does this mean 'nozzle too close' or 'layer too thin'?
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: AdeV on January 04, 2020, 09:16:47 AM
Quote
But be warned: An initial layer height that is too small can cause PETG to fuse to the print bed, making it easy to damage.

I wonder, does this mean 'nozzle too close' or 'layer too thin'?

The latter comes about because of the former... AIUI, the hot glass + hot plastic + pressure from the extruder = fused PETG/Glass... or at least, very solidly bonded.

Can't say I've experienced anything remotely like that. Then again, I can't remember if I re-set the bed height for PETG or not, or whether I just went with what was working for PLA.
Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: PekkaNF on January 06, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
I needed to print / slice /adjust flex filament buttons several times. Still I don't have good parameters for this Ninja flexible filament, it seems to be pretty temperamental and took some tries. Finally gave up blue tape and used Ender Pro-bed, just wiped clean with IPA, raised bed temperature to 45C just before first layer (rest of print at 40C) and first layer was printed pretty "flat". Extruder temp was 228C, layers may not be fused extra well together, but I was getting allready some oozing and stringing.

Last hurdle was to adjust height  0,85 mm shorter, or buttons would not "click" reliably.

Round button holes on the panel line up pretty good with the PCB swiches, but extreme arrow button nearly misses the switch. Paralax error on the picture lies more than any politician.


Title: Re: First 3d printer - Ender 3 pro
Post by: Will_D on January 12, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
Any one know how to achieve a filament change in g-code/m-code.

It would be analogous to doing a tool change on a mill?

Basically you slice, generate the g-code, Fire up the editor, go to the particular layer (identified by a comment and also the Znnn comand),

add the unkown m-codes,  and run the code. The printer runs the first layers then pauses, and maybe does an auto filament change or you do it manually and then resume the print.