MadModder
The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: micktoon on July 08, 2012, 06:26:57 AM
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Good morning all , I am totally new to posting so not sure if what you are seeing is what you are meant to be seeing :scratch:. This is the state of my Harrsion L5 1959 lathe when I rescued it from a damp old shed, I have had it a few years and its been cleaned up and used a bit but still scruffy so the plan is to now give it a good going over to get it half decent. More recent photos to follow if this post works ok.
Cheers Mick
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Hi Mick,
Looks like you have this ere posting pics OK. :clap: :clap: :clap:
A fue of your workshop would be good, I'll am green with envy as my shop is still in my head ( and some would say there is plenty of room for it!) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bill
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Thanks Bill , I will get photos of shop as I do the jobs for the lathe, well that post seemed ok , the images were thumbnail, I would like the normal size images if possible as I know when I read through posts nothing is worse than having to click on every pic to see better. I have found some old photos of the lathe after a bit of elbow grease :D and a couple of it as its been used for the last couple of years. I am planning on doing a bit today so will post tonight.
Cheers Mick
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Hi Mick :thumbup:
The lathe is looking good , have you used it much ? whats it like ? , its just i have my eye on an L5 :dremel:
To embed your photos you will need to use Photobucket http://photobucket.com/ there are two cracking post by Ralph on how too
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=607.0
And to resize use Fastone http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm , http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=4735.0
Rob
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Hi
Mick
You have made a great job of cleaning up that lathe :clap: :clap:
It looks to be in good shape under all that grime :drool: :drool: :drool:
John
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Its not too bad John, that was phase 1 now it just needs a good go over and paint to get it back to its former glory :D.
Thanks for them links Rob , I will check them out and hopefully get into the swing of posting better as I go. I have not used the lathe too much really , well mainly making bits for the lathe , backplates etc and other parts for various stuff, its been fine for everything I have done but I have not done anything too tricky mind. I like the lathe and have only heard good things about Harrisons in general, this one has the screwed spindle but the larger bore 2. 1/4 inch 6 tpi, quite hard to find backplates , faceplates etc for I still need some stuff. If I had of posted before I took it apart you could have had a go to see what you thought its now in bits as you will see from tonights photos :bugeye:, my plan is to strip and clean , repair what I can then maybe put back together to try to access how 'true' things are ( something I might need advice with ) then strip back and do what needs done and give it a nice repaint, hopefully ending up with it operating and looking as it was back in its day.
Cheers Mick.
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Hi
Mick
Are you running your lathe from a phase converter
That is assuming it is 3 phase
John
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Hi John, the lathe is single phase 1hp motor at the moment but its a noisey motor and I think the date on it is 1941!, its a huge old thing massive for 1 hp. I have an inverter and 1.5hp three phase new ish but decent motor I was thinking of fitting , no doubt that will involve making brackets , a pully , a mount for inverter bla bla bla as these things always do :Doh:. The top speed is 750 rpm at the moment but L5's did have the option of two speed motor and 1500 rpm top speed so all the bearings etc are good for higher than 750 rpm and I know the inverters can get more than 50hz in therory so maybe get higher top speed with it too ? and reversing for threading, I know its a screwed on chuck so a bit iffy but having said that how much force is needed for taking off the chuck I think you would have to be doing something daft to get it to come free.
How do you find the inverter on your Boxford ?
Cheers Mick
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Nice rescue of a nice lathe Mick. I've always had a soft spot for the L5, I nearly scored one a while back, before ending up with the Edgwick.
and reversing for threading, I know its a screwed on chuck so a bit iffy but having said that how much force is needed for taking off the chuck I think you would have to be doing something daft to get it to come free.
The big danger, as I understand it, is if you do an emergency stop from a high reverse speed: The lathe stops, but the chuck doesn't... That shouldn't be a problem when threading, as you won't be doing high speed.
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Cheers Ade, as you say its stopping from high speed that is probably the risky part but I can avoid that ok so think it would have its advantages over all. In hindsight maybe a phase converter would have been a good idea instead of inverters on various machines ? then again it would not have suited everything and speed control is good on most things too. I enjoyed your 'mega sump' Ade plenty getting around problems on that project !
Cheers Mick
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After spending hours hopefully sorting out this photo embedding and resizing business :scratch: I will try another photo to see if its worked or not. If anyone else is wanting to do this, look at Robs post above for links to Ralphs ( Divided he ad ) TOP CLASS postings on the topics, he will defo go to Heaven for them posts :bow: and deserves a huge gold medal too :clap: not to mention a few beers. I would have been messing about till Christmas to have worked that out on my own :doh: .......who am I kidding ....... I would never have worked it out. So thanks again Rob for pointing me in the right direction and Ralph for taking the time to post the instructions in such a easy to understand way.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Lathestripdown010.jpg)
This is the headstock after all the flaking paint scraped off.
Mick
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Thanks Mick, the sump was a slightly crazy project.... I'm planning Mk2 now, it will be a CNC version, but first I have to learn 3D CAD, then CAM, then make it suit my non-G-code machine....
I've been fortunate that everywhere I've been for the last 10 years+ has an actual 3-phase supply. A while back, I bought a 3-phase alternator from Machine Mart (on one of their "VAT free" days), so if I ever do lose my 3ph supply I can run the alternator, either attached to a single-phase motor, or a generator, whichever seems most practical.
I see you have the Norton style gearbox on yours - will that cut metric and imperial, or do you need to add a change gear for that? Just curious as mine will cut both from the same gearbox...
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Hi Ade, the gearbox can cut both metric and imperial but needs a 127T gear ( I now have after looking for ages ) and a couple of other gears changed namely a 60T which I now have, plus a 40T and 63T both of which I still need, along with face plate and catch plate. The three phase thing is a bind in general for the average home workshop, I have inverters on things, which still involves changing switch gear and suds pumps, lamps etc or managed to convert to single phase from three phase like I have on my Boxford shaper.
I don't envy you having to learn all the 3D CAD then CAM and dont even know what G code is to be honest :Doh: Once you have learnt it your set I suppose and it makes some things that would be a nightmare to get right easy once you're up and running too ( well in therory anyway ). It was your sump post that first lead me to madmodders to be honest... just found it looking about the net for Bridgeport info and was very impressed with your project and madmodders :clap:
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick
I see you got the photos posting sorted :thumbup:, Ralph did a dam fine job of the "How Too Posts" . I will be watching this thread closely see how the lathe turns out .
Shaper you say ,sounds like you have a well tooled up shop. :clap:
Rob
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I've been fiddling with a knackered L5-4A just this afternoon. Yours looks in much better shape :) Will be watching your progress with interest
I'm about to graft a new-ish piece of double start thread to the old cross-slide screw (I didn't fancy trying to make a complete new one) .
Do you have a picture of the top of the cross-slide nut? (I'm not sure if this one has been modified - has a step milled into it for some reason).
Bill
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Thanks Mick, the sump was a slightly crazy project.... I'm planning Mk2 now, it will be a CNC version, but first I have to learn 3D CAD, then CAM, then make it suit my non-G-code machine....
I've been fortunate that everywhere I've been for the last 10 years+ has an actual 3-phase supply. A while back, I bought a 3-phase alternator from Machine Mart (on one of their "VAT free" days), so if I ever do lose my 3ph supply I can run the alternator, either attached to a single-phase motor, or a generator, whichever seems most practical.
I see you have the Norton style gearbox on yours - will that cut metric and imperial, or do you need to add a change gear for that? Just curious as mine will cut both from the same gearbox...
Adev,
Your machine IS G code enabled - just it starts up in Heidenhain conversational - you can switch to G code simply by changing a parameter. My TNC355 based machine (Beaver Partsmaster) is extremely similar, although I choose to work conversational as I have a Heidenhain post processor for Featurecam (that was written for a TNC150/151!!!!!)
AWEM
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Hi
Mike
Your lathe has cleaned up very nice
I am very happy with the VFD on my Boxford
It makes screw cutting a pleasure
I had a colchester bantam lathe wich i converted to single phase , had i known then how good VFD inverters are i would have used one on that . I would have been cheaper as well.
The soft start is a great feature .
John
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Good evening gents , I have got distracted from the lathe today getting the milling machine cleared off and making a gadget that a diamond point dresser fits into to true up a grinding wheel for sharpening my woodturning gouges, I will attach a photo or two and you will see what its like ( the holes in side of billet were already there and just big enough to do the job so will have to do. I have been given one to copy. Note temp inverter for power table resting on radiator... another job to do !
Is it just my clock on posts wrong or is everyones ? its 4.30pm ?? acording to the site, the other thing is in my profile I put location Newcastle and my age but they dont show either ?? any ideas.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/GeigerJig001.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/GeigerJig003.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/GeigerJig002.jpg)
Hi Bill, I will take a photo and post it in the morning for you of crossslide nut, mine looks a bit homemade ? it has raised spigot on top and a split that has been pinned with grub screw to take up backlash by moving either side of the split apart ?
Hi Rob, I have been collecting machinery and tools for ages now so have Bridgeport , Boxford shaper, progress 2 pillar drill, Harrison ped grinder and buffer, the Harrison L5 , Harrison graduate wood lathe a Binns & Berry lathe 7 1/2 inch centre height, Clarkson T&C grinder, Startrite vertical bandsaw and Horizontal bandsaw, Mig , Tig. Half the machine tool stuff needs the same as the Harrison ( a good going over to get it operating right ) Next on the to do lists are the Clarkson, needs tee slot table as slots burst out and to get the Bridgeport fettled. I am watching your CNC conversion with great interest, its looking very nice too.
Hi John, I am glad to hear your impressed with the inverter, I watched your screw cutting video on youtube and the reverse looked spot on, I have just seen your latest engine base pattern post there , it looks quality, thats going to be some pour !!
Mick.
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I now have machine envy Mick :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: ,, well tooled :thumbup:
Just sent you a PM , see if the time is correct for you now :thumbup:
Rob
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Hi Bill, I have the photos for you, I cant tell if this nut is homemade by someone that knows what they are doing or the way it was made at the factory , it does not look mass produced so makes me think homemade but some stuff was just done by hand in the 1950's anyway. this has a very small milled recess as you will see but I cant see a need for it anyway, this one has a small hole drilled down from the top so oil could get to the screw, my base plate ( part with the graduated scale on ) where this nut attaches to has no place for an oiler but others I have seen have so I might add one anyway.
Hope the photos help if you need anymore of other parts just let me know .
Cheers Mick.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/topnut004.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/topnut005.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/topnut003.jpg)
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Bill I have just thought why the milled part might be there, the small thin chip guard at the front of the cross slide will hit the nut and stop travel I think when the cross slide comes back towards the handwheel, so this gap will let the cross slide reach the hand wheel end at full travel ?
Mick
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That's great Mick. Thanks :)
It confirms that the step is required (I thought it might be a backlash reducing bodge ) .
I'm fairly sure this one is an original nut : it's a crudely fettled casting. Both it and the screw are marked with a figure two. Interestingly, this one was spaced down by a small stack of shims - I guess that, when new, it had less than the 60 thou" backlash !
Thanks again for the pictures. If you need any of this one, let me know .
Bill
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Hi Mick,
I'm sure with all your equipment you don't need to be told that a 3Ph motor runs much more quietly and smoothly on a VFD than a phase converter. That and speed control makes it a no-contest situation in my view.
Ned
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Hi Ned , I know what you mean and you are right, just sometimes in hindsight it might have saved a lot of hassle just leaving things three phase, switches , suds pumps , lamps etc and just plug whatever you want to use into a converter........ instead of a project per machine and then next time you go to use it the inverter has gone US :palm:, as has happened with both the Bridgeport inverters , one for the table and one for the spindle, sometimes it just feels a bit like :bang: ha ha .
Mick
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Nice rescue of a nice lathe Mick. I've always had a soft spot for the L5, I nearly scored one a while back, before ending up with the Edgwick.
and reversing for threading, I know its a screwed on chuck so a bit iffy but having said that how much force is needed for taking off the chuck I think you would have to be doing something daft to get it to come free.
The big danger, as I understand it, is if you do an emergency stop from a high reverse speed: The lathe stops, but the chuck doesn't... That shouldn't be a problem when threading, as you won't be doing high speed.
Ade
wrong way round
if the spindle is rotating in the normal forwards direction and you stop the spindle ( by what ever means ) the chuck ail continue to rotate in a anticlockwise rotation ( looking up the spout ) thus unscrew ( dont ask how I know ) when you are in reverse and stop the spindle it will tighten it up
You have to consider the spindle not the chuck stop the spindle and the chuck will tend to try and continue in the same direction
Stuart
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Hi Mick,
If you have proper 3Ph wired to your workshop, then that is the way to go. If, however, you are using a converter to power say a mill, with power feeds, suds pump etc, then a converter is a problem, unless it is a rotary one, because of the risk of burning out the smaller motors if the main motor is off. You can obviously wire up the smaller ones to only come on when the main is running, but this can be a hassle.
Faced with this situation I would be tempted to VFD the main motor, but run the smaller ones, which don't necessarily need infinite speed control, from a converter. I know this means two power feeds but could be the best of both worlds.
Ned
PS I am jealous of your machines but most all jealous of the space you must have to fit them all in. :D
Anybody know tonight's lottery winning numbers? :lol:
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Evening all , I have got that jig block done and been stripping the lathe more , here is a photo of the jig and the original one I copied, not that its up to much compared to most things on the forum but will do the job fine.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/ZZZZ004.jpg)
I have spent more time moving things so the Harrison was in the middle of some floor space to get all around it, its now in spot I can get to everything and see what I am doing. I am reaching a stage where I will have to decide how far to go with stripping back.......... Ummm its a tricky one as on the one hand I want to just keep dismantling and do a ground up job, like I would if it was a car but I dont really know enough about lathes to know if I am going too far and will be no better off for it nad setting up things on reassembley. I have already forund out the causes of a few niggles , half the noise is the motor as thats rumbling , it looks like 1939 date on it if thats possible ? and also only 3/4 horse power I am swapping that anyway for 1.5Hp three phase with inverter. The clutch is also rattling and the brass pins are loose in the plates. The power feed engage lever used to drop out and that was crap previous repair, a small plate the lever is meant to latch over but it was just catching the edge of it. Here are a couple of photos anyway.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/zz005.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/zz003.jpg)
I had fitted the suds tank when I got the lathe, I think I will remount it on the tailstock end of the lathe this time so I can get to it.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/zz004.jpg)
The headstock all looks ok except for the usual mushrooming of the edges of cogs where the kids have tried changing speeds when running, the saddle was the same , I diamond filed all the burrs on them gears and they mesh smooth now. The headstock gears need this too but will mean the whole lot coming out to do it :bugeye: would I be :loco: to do that of daft not to ?
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/ZZZZ010.jpg)
You can see gears better on this shot they are fine once selected but the burrs make selecting harder than it should be.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/zz013.jpg)
The tailstock is rough inside , I bought a 3MT reamer but it would not touch it , anyone know the best way of going about cleaning it up ?
Thats it for tonight , the post has taken ages as I got a bit tangled up in the photo department :palm: so have been on hours sorting out what is what. Ned I dont think I could get three phase here as it stops quite a distance from the house and its overhead cables, not to mention the cost, so its inverters and single phase :doh:
Cheers Mick.
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You've presumably already read the lathes.co.uk entry on the L5, so I'm guessing you already know that the lathe and cabinet have a very carefully set up relationship that is best left undisturbed.... Other than that, I'd say a lathe is easy compared to a car.
So long as you remember what cog goes where, and how all the springs fit together, it's a doddle :lol:
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Aye cheers Ade, I would definitely remember when I took it apart but then be thinking ....Ummm :scratch: was that this way ....or this way when it came to putting it back together :palm: I had read the lathes uk pages and would not take the headstock from the bed or bed from the cabinet , its more should I strip the lot out, gears , spindle, norton box, lead screw saddle etc and inspect , repair anything that looks suspect then paint then re assemble so I know its right or just leave it unless its definitely broken, I am more worried about tollerences and alignment side of things and the fact that if anything breaks taking it apart it will probably have to be made.
Hopefully there might be some forum members with previous experience, it seemed a bit noisy before but the motor is really noisy and the clutch rattles as the brass pins are loose in the plates, i will trial fit the new motor and try to fix the clutch and see if it seems smooth and quiet then.
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick
Do have a tapper turning attachment ? you could re-turn the tapper in the tail stock barrel :dremel:
Lets see a photo of your other lathe :poke:
Rob
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Hi Rob , I will take photo of the Binns and Berry lathe tomorrow and post, I dont have taper attachment, thats something else I would like for the Harrison to be honest. I am not home tonight but have managed to get to the photos I uploaded yesterday so will put a couple on.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/ZZZZ006-1.jpg)
This is the alloy chip guard cover for the crossslide screw, I have attached a steel plate with countersunk screws so you can place magnetic dial guage or suds base to it as there is not much flat space on the lathe before I did this.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Lathestripdown004.jpg)
This is the top of the crossslide before a clean up
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/ZZZZ005.jpg)
This is it after, the top surfaces that had been abused , no doubt by kids when it was a school lathe dont act as a bearing surface so I draw filed them till they looked decent and made a small stainless steel plate to replace the battered up thing that used to catch as you passed over it.
Mick.
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Evening all , I have got that jig block done and been stripping the lathe more , here is a photo of the jig and the original one I copied, not that its up to much compared to most things on the forum but will do the job fine.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/ZZZZ004.jpg)
Cheers Mick.
Apart from the anodizing Mick i can see no difference , looks great :clap: :clap: :clap: I take it it if for dressing the wheels on a bench grinder ? being angle so that the point can be rotated to a fresh edge ?
Rob
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Aye you got it spot on Rob, such a simple idea but it works really well, that recess cut out on the bottom just has to about the right size for your grinder rest. I have got more stripped off the lathe today so will take a couple of photos as I clear up and post later on .
Cheers Mick.
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Todays progress , not much done really just scraped lots of old grease /oil off , took a few more bits of and started to work out what needs done to get the new motor fitted. Here are photos of the Binns & Berry 7 1/2 inch centre height, 36 inch between centres 1959 lathe for Rob and anyone else interested, this had clean up and paint years ago now :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa006.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa002.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa010.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa011.jpg)
This is the Harrsion after todays stripping session.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa015.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa014.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/aaa016.jpg)
Hope to get the new motor on tomorrow for a trial run :D
Mick
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They dont make them like they used to and these machines were about three times dearer than Colchester at the time.
In many ways they are better than an M300, wider cross and top slide, greater cross travel i really miss, not forgetting that superb clutch.
Looks very little change to the newer 11" and later 140 i scrapped last year.
Main difference is the L00 taper, 140 had squarer head stock, 1000 rpm, metric in 1965 thats about it.
Your current motor is physically a bit small, they are massive around 18" diameter with jacking feet.
Shame junked a full set of change wheels, faceplate, 11" 4 jaw chuck, 6 1/4" 3 jaw, specialist C spanners, peg spanners, coolant, etc wanted it out the way. Now lives up County Durham some where.
Normal for 3ph on the 11" is a 2hp motor, its a 1 1/2hp on the rare single phase i had.
Better option rather than faff about with VFD is to lash out on an inverter that will run the Bridgy, Binns & Berry and anything else 3ph in the shop, all at same time if need be.
Lead screw bronze nut should have a slot in it. Two cap head screws pulling or pushing apart to take up the play. Both look original though.
Mick has it the typical Harrison trait of a clutch that rattles. For those that dont know its like a car clutch with proper friction disc, its this you can hear.
ATF in the head stock upon refit.
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Hi Mick, nice work on the L5 .. I have the same lathe and have found it to be superb! Mine doesn't have the gap bed and a has a different topslide with a crappy single tool post unfortunately!
The 4 jaw chuck is unfortunately too big for the stuff I do too, tried selling at one time - probably worth a bit to the right person but too much to post!
Nick
PS, my clutch rattles!
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Cheers for posting the Binns and Berry Mick :thumbup:
It looks a good solid bit of kit :dremel:
Rob
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They dont make them like they used to and these machines were about three times dearer than Colchester at the time.
In many ways they are better than an M300, wider cross and top slide, greater cross travel i really miss, not forgetting that superb clutch.
Looks very little change to the newer 11" and later 140 i scrapped last year.
Main difference is the L00 taper, 140 had squarer head stock, 1000 rpm, metric in 1965 thats about it.
Your current motor is physically a bit small, they are massive around 18" diameter with jacking feet.
Shame junked a full set of change wheels, faceplate, 11" 4 jaw chuck, 6 1/4" 3 jaw, specialist C spanners, peg spanners, coolant, etc wanted it out the way. Now lives up County Durham some where.
Normal for 3ph on the 11" is a 2hp motor, its a 1 1/2hp on the rare single phase i had.
Better option rather than faff about with VFD is to lash out on an inverter that will run the Bridgy, Binns & Berry and anything else 3ph in the shop, all at same time if need be.
Lead screw bronze nut should have a slot in it. Two cap head screws pulling or pushing apart to take up the play. Both look original though.
Mick has it the typical Harrison trait of a clutch that rattles. For those that dont know its like a car clutch with proper friction disc, its this you can hear.
ATF in the head stock upon refit.
who wanted all those junked changewheels jon :bugeye:
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Evening all, Well a proper Friday the 13th day today , nowt went right :scratch: and it took ages to happen too, plenty distractions along the way mind that dont help. I made four alloy spacer blocks for the motor mounting brackets, the new motor has different spindle center height from the feet so made the spacers the same amount longer as the difference in height so the motor would line up with the hole in the belt housing case. Since I got the Harrison , I have hardly used the Binns and Berry ( hence it looking so clean ) so had to remember what was what with it. It would appear I have been spoilt rotten with a quick change tool post and a camolck type tailstock, as everything seemed more strife to do, anyway got them sorted. The pully then needed bored out as the new shaft is larger, managed to get it spot on true in the three jaw ( by fluke ? ) and taking it really easy as it had key way gently bored it out, then when I still had a bit to go due to back lash and the micrommeter dial sticking took a bigger cut than I wanted off and bored the pully oversize :palm: :bang:, so I could sleave it but then the keyway would take up the depth sleave, thicher sleave would be getting too close to bottom of Vees bla bla bla, anyway my mate Dave thinks he might have a pulley that will do the job so will check that before doing anything. I then mounted the motor with my new spacers and its not in the center of the hole in the casing ? :palm: :scratch: , aye the old one must not have been either, I assumed it would have been ( assume nothing EVER :lol: ) the old motor position was ok and this one will be too but annoying when i could have just made the spacers the right length with the same work. Still these things happen and its what makes you look closer the next time :lol:.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Pulley001.jpg)
Making spacers sticking out a bit far but wanted two at a time , did it no problem.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Pulley002.jpg)
The new spacers beside the old ones, should have been say 25 -30mm longer :palm:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Pulley003.jpg)
The motor fitted , it can move vertical up and down but should be central side to side :palm: , the pully is just placed on for show , one gust of wind and it will be away :lol:
Cheers Mick.
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I did not mention peoples comments there sorry,
Jonny , the clutch does not rattle that much but the plates are loose on the pins so either should or will soon, it bites a bit too quick so going to look at it anyway.
I was suprised the Harrisons were that much more than the Colchesters , I had a bantam and it looked as good quality in build etc but no clutch, you are right not much change between the later ones until the 'M' series.
Nick , as mentioned above the clutch is not too bad at the moment but you can hear it, what spindle does your L5 have ? the Harrisons seemed to change spec all the time. Glad you are impressed with yours, the way I look at it once sorted out this L5 should see me out so worth doing.
No Problem with the photos Rob , the Binns and Berry is a solid sturdy thing but a bit like tapping a tack in with two handed sledge hammer once you try smallish stuff on it. Those barcket CAD's look good, I look forward to seeing them turn into metal :thumbup:
Has anyone else ever seen a similar Binns and Berry ??? , the only one I have ever seen was at the royal armouries in Leeds the Gunsmith in the basement type area has one but the gunsmiths place was closed so never got to speak to him about it. I have looked on the net etc and only huge industrial type stuff is mentioned ?
Cheers Mick.
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Nice to see a bit of swarf on that lathe there Mick - nothing worse than a polished and pristine lathe* :D except when it's new out of the box, of course.... :med:
Regarding the spacers... can't you just turn up a bit more bar to the right lengths? If you want them to positively locate, then I'd suggest thinning down say 1/2 inch of your new spacers by 1/4"; and hollowing out the top of the extension spacer to the same dimension, so the one slides into the other.
Or, probably a bit easier, get some plate/block & make a pair of rectangular/square bar spacers, that go between the motor feet & mounting plate?
As for the pulley, sounds like it's basically scrap now? So why not bore & sleeve it? You could always make a thin taper bush, if you're feeling brave?
* That's my excuse anyway...
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Hi Ade, as you say I can extend them spacers or do new ones, there is bar left so just as easy to do new ones as do extension pieces .......... the idea about spacing under motor feet might be the best ( easiest ), I will have to see what bits of metal are lying about..... or I could maybe at a push use the old spacers under the motor as they are about the right height, even easier still :D , of course I have just sawn the ends off the coach bolts I had :palm: that would have been the ideal length with the spaces in.
I think I will give the tapered thin bush a miss mind Ade , if I cant even bore that one out I dont have much chance there :lol: I will hoope the pully my mate has will fit or I think I could at least make a sleave out of it that would already have the keyway built into it and thus leave enough 'meat' on the old pully to still use it............ Watch this space as they say :thumbup:
Just one of them days, hopefully all will fall into place on my next attempt :)
Mick.
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Hi Mick, mine is 1 1/2" x 6 TPI 3MT, what's yours?
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Hi Nick , mine is the bigger bore spindle, its the 2 1/4 6tpi threaded type , its the same through bore through the spindle as the L00 fitment oneone but the internal taper is 4 1/2 morse taper so was hard to find bush/ reducing sleave for it, managed to get on in the end.
Mick
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That sounds a lot more useful Mick once you found the bush ... I was surprised at mine for the size of the lathe. The gap bed could come in handy too, I won't be able to swing more than 9" in mine which again, considering it's overall size is quite small capacity. Guess people with ML7's can probably do that in the gap!
Nick
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Hi Nick, I have heard it mentioned by a few people that for the overall size of the lathe it had limited capacity and this is why they in the later models made the spindle larger bore. I think the lack of capacity was probably due to them being a training type lathe for schools ?
Mick.
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Yeah probably ... mine only has the low range of speeds too, probably for the same reason but it hasn't bothered me, it still seems to give cracking results.
Nick
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Evening all, Well the new pully fitted and was the same diameter , keyway etc, except for only having two not three vee's so put another vee in it and turned the original motor bracket spacers down and put them under motor feet so its now sitting in the right position ( easiest solution Ade :clap: ). Tested the inverter and motor it is running fine and much more quiet than before too :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/vvvv007.jpg)
I stripped the change gears off and gave the cover a clean off.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/vvvv001.jpg)
Took the alloy cover off and removed the clutch, pretty manky behind the cover as you would expect after god knows how many years.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/vvvv002.jpg)
Looking a bit better after a clean off and I can see what is what now.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/vvvv003.jpg)
Next job is to take spindle out and de burr the mushroomed edges on the gear teeth, the only drawing I have is very poor and hard to make out, so not too sure exactly the top and intermediate shafts are retained or what is the best way of getting them out :scratch:. A friend may have a better Harrison manual with better drawings so will keep my fingers crossed for that to turn up as could save a :palm: incident.
Mick.
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Evening all , not got too much done due to other things getting in the way but have removed spindle and the pile of bits on the bench is getting bigger !
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/a1lathe006.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/a1lathe005.jpg)
I had thought that the main cone shaped bull wheel gear would have been able to have been removed once the spindle was out , it looks like it would fit through the casing but the lower gear shaft will have to come out too so it can be tilted enough to get out the top of the headstock casing. I should be getting better drawings of what is holding what together tomorrow so have not gone any further up to now.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/vvvv004.jpg)
This is the part that will not fit through the gap. I am busy with other things again tomorrow so will post when more has happend :D
Mick.
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More parts have been stripped and the lathe now looks like this
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb021.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb009.jpg)
This is most of the internal parts and the apron and Norton box, once the headstock was stripped I thought I might as well go the whole hog and strip the lot bare :bugeye: :bugeye:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb020.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb019.jpg)
The worst part of stripping the headstock was a taper pin at the clutch end of the top gear shaft had to be knocked through this one here that has ground flush head.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb005.jpg)
The problem was it knocked almost out but not enough to fall out the shaft and jammed against a rib in the casting making it impossible to rotate the shaft and impossible to knock through any further or get back in :palm: :scratch: so after a bit thinking and trying to wiggle with pliers etc and no access to grind the far end of the pin shorter so it could get knocked through decided I would have to drill the casting to allow an exit hole for the pin
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb010.jpg)
It worked a treat , I then tapped the hole 1/4 BSP
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb012.jpg)
Then fitted taper plug kindly donated by my mate Dave to block the hole
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/bbbb024.jpg)
Seems to have got the job done and if the pin did ever have to come out again could be taken back out for access. The only things that seem to need attention so far is the rear spindle bearing sounds a little noisey and a couple of the power feed take off gears look a bit chipped, I am going to clean and inspect everthing better tomorrow.
Cheers Mick.
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I have been following you post since you started, I have nothing but praise for what you are doing and the documentation of you progress.
:lol:
I have a Harrison L5A, I call it Beauty as it is all I ever want in a lathe.
My wife refers to her as my mistress in the garage.
I fell in love with a L5 in in 1960 and had to wait 45 years before I could own one.
I am now a happy man with two ladies, one does everything I ask and the other very little apart from cook and she must be the worlds best. :beer:.
Light hearted but not quite :offtopic:
Trev
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Hi trev, thanks for the positive comments about the posts and L5 project :thumbup: I hope your wife does not see your post or you might be doing your own cooking for a day or two ha ha.
I am wondering would you have waited 45 years for your wife Trev or would I go to all this trouble to strip my wife down and rebuild her :lol: ........... Ummm, probably questions better to be left unanswered :D
I have not had a chance to do anymore but plan to get stuck in next week so watch this space
Cheers Mick
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Love your reply Mick :D :D :D
And I will follow your progress
Trev
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Not been able to get too much done but a little progress. I am trying to get the main cabinet, castings , splash guard etc all cleaned off and do various mods to them before painting. I have drilled and tapped the casing for a bracket for the work lamp and inverter housing, the four bolts in the photo are the new mounting points
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/littlehelpers006.jpg)
Who says todays young -uns are not keen these days :lol: , my three neices were here today , I made a rope swing from a tree in the garden with them and plenty on TV but the only thing they wanted to do was muck in and help with the lathe :thumbup: so many hands make light work ! Grace 9 , Lily 6 ( & a half ) and Sadie 4 all getting stuck in scraping the old paint from the splash guard, they put a couple of hours in and still were not bored :clap: They are off to Butlins holiday camp for a week but said they will sand down / prepare for paint once they are back and maybe get the gearbox sorted if they have time :ddb: Anyway well done for helping girls :clap: :clap: :clap:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/littlehelpers002.jpg)
The splash guard was stripped totally of paint as it looks like old synthetic stuff that might wrinkle if painted over. Before photo.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/littlehelpers008.jpg)
After photo, I am going to weld a few holes up and maybe weld studs to the bottom edge and drill the drip tray so once its bolted up it will be more solid and not rattle.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/littlehelpers010.jpg)
The general thing is starting to look more prepared now, the end gear casing cover hinges have been welded before and it wont line up right so I am going to re do the repair and get it squared up, I also intend to make the headstock end into a cabinet with shelves and door.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/littlehelpers016.jpg)
Cheers Mick
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I have managed to get some more 'bodywork' done today. Welded up various surplus holes in the splash guard then cut off the hook type hangers that supported the splash guard to the rear of the drip tray, this used rattle and drive me mad :loco:. So I have drilled through the drip tray and splash guard and welded studs to the splash guard so it will sit tight to the drip tray and not rattle, the studs rather than bolts are so its smooth along the bottom for cleaning out swarf without catching bolt heads.
The original hook fixings.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet003.jpg)
A tip to weld studs like this is make the hole a bit bigger than the stud ( just bolt with head cut off to length you want ) put a copper washer over it and nut to the right place so when held in place the stud sticks through the hole to the same height as the panel its passing through, the nut and washer keep it square and the copper washer keeps any weld buldging through the back so its tidy around the stud so it will sit square when bolted onto the panel. This photo the bolt still has the head on it , once cut to length the cut end is the one fed through the panel so you keep the nice end for the nut to go on.
The stud with copper washer.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet004.jpg)
Held in place ready for tack weld, tack it then pool the weld around the stud ( without still holding it ):thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet005.jpg)
The stud welded, just leaves small bit to grind flush.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet006.jpg)
The guard in place with welds ground off.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet007.jpg)
The row of bolts now keeping the guard nice and rattle free and much more solid too.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet008.jpg)
Only other progress was to make the hole in the cabinet that was already there for switch panel, larger to convert that end into a cupboard for tooling. I will be able to have two shelves with eight inches space above each so worth doing. The shelves will be metal plate welded like the other side of the cabinet.
The hole that was standard.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet009.jpg)
The new improved hole, the semi circle in the top corner has been patched but took the photo before it was done. I will have to make templates for the shelves out of ply wood as there are rounded corners and a vee shape cuts into the rear of them too, I will make one plywood then use that to draw around to cut the metal plate.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathecabinet010.jpg)
Cheers Mick
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Looking great Mick
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Like you say once you have it this far down , do a propper job :thumbup: :thumbup:
The storage shelves are a good idea
John
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Looking good Mick :thumbup:,,,,,,,,,now thats just cheating having three midget helpers :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Rob
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Mick, this is looking very tidy indeed. Nice tip about welding the studs, I'd have just welded around the bolthead & then ground the whole lot flat, but I'm a masochist like that (and a rubbish welder to boot). Your method will probably last a lot longer than mine too....
Nice idea about the shelves, wonder why Harrison never did that :scratch:
This lathe is going to look spectacular when its finished - almost too good to dirty with oil & swarf...
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Cheers lads :beer:,
John , I am still trying to look at the long term picture , especially when I spending all day grinding a hole for shelves that will be a luxury lol, its all stuff you would never do if the lathe was up and running so might as well get it done now eh :thumbup:
Rob , its just a same that they are off to Butlins, its a week wasted in my book :whip:, still there will be three weeks of the school holidays still left once they return for duty lol.
Ade , that stud thing works good with the copper washer as you can burn right into the stud so its nicely welded into the panel but without the big snot of weld at the back thats hard to grind off and normally also runs down the stud wrecking the threads :palm:. I dont know why Harrison never made that end another storage area especially as the one that is there is not up to much, the top shelf has the suds sump taking up most of it, the middle one is ok and the bottom one has a vertical tall lip at the front so akward to get heavy stuff in and out. I am just trying to think of ideas as I go to make the finished lathe better and nicer to use. I hope it does look too good to use when its done :D but it will be getting used dont worry about that :thumbup:
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick,
Being a fully paid up member of the old fart’s club I’m confused. The position of the copper washer is between the splash guard and the nut. With the cut end of the bolt through the splash guard for welding? It’s just that the 2nd photos has the copper washer on the other side of the nut (the nice end of the bolt!).
Gravity will hold the stud in place when on the bench?
Not trying to be a pain, just don’t want to look a pillock when applying the method!!!
Cheers Bill :beer:
PS the smallest of the three helpers looks to be doing most of the work.
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Hi Bill , I took the photo of the washer without thinking really and it was just 'staged' to show the washer idea, I did have them the right way around when I actually welded them.
You are right when you actually want to weld one cut the end off a bolt and wind a nut onto it, then as you say stick the rough cut off end through the washer and panel, then adjust the nut so the studs cut end just sticks through flush, while holding it up tight and square give it a little tack weld then leave go and weld around the stud :thumbup:.
I only had one washer so had to take apart with pliers as it was hot to do the next one, if you had a few washers it would be quicker doing a few tacks then welding them up one after another. Bill when you say gravity will hold the thing in place on the bench , it would but you would then have to weld them upside down doing it that way. The nut is not holding anything its just acting as a depth stop and also keeps your stud nice and square , once you push it against the backside of the panel, I would do them like in photo three pushing the stud up till tacked, this way your weld pool around the stud is much easier to do as you are welding with gravity on your side :thumbup:
The other thing I forgot to mention is the panel you are welding has to be about 2mm thick really if its too thin the weld will probably crack when you tighten the nut on the final job.
If you take your time and grind/ sand flush or even fill the ground off area you can hold things together with no visible fixings :D
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick,
Yep that’s all clear now. But gravity – With stud through hole and splash guard on top, all on bench, so the splash guard is holding the stud in position onto bench top.
It’s a great tip, thanks. :headbang:
Real great job you are making of the L5, be better than new with the personalised parts. :bugeye:
Cheers Bill
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Mick,
If you need any help with inverters/converters etc just shout. It is one of my (few?) areas of expertise. I've normally got quality used inverters on the shelf and help with programming etc at sensible prices.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bob.minchin/Induction%20motors%20-%20Issue2.pdf
Rgds
Bob
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Thanks for that offer Bob , I might just give you a shout as have a few inverters to fit on things so will see how I go and if what I have will do the jobs intended.
Some more progress on the lathe cabinet to report. I decided that the plywood idea for shelf was not needed as the cabinet was not as tricky a shape as I first thought. I marked out on some 3mm galv plate I had lying about and cut it out with the plasma cutter, its single phase weldspares 3500 and 'meant' to cut up to 10mm :lol: it only just does the 3mm really, anyway got the two shelves and the door cut out then cleaned the cut edges up with grinder and file.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor001.jpg)
The bottom shelf fitted , I welded two posts to the center of the cabinet base so the shelf wont sag under weight and made the front edge level so chucks can be slid out without lifting over a lip.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor003.jpg)
Second shelf also welded in this one has angle iron cleats welded to the sides and back and a 10mm x 40mm strengthening brace under the front set back a bit.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor007.jpg)
The hinges for the door are from RS components, I have used them before , they come in four sizes this is the third biggest 16mm diameter and 80mm long, they weld on and have a brass washer and fixed pin in lower section and once welded on the door can be lifted off in need be.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor008.jpg)
I used magnetic blocks to get the door held in the right spot, then just hold the hinges where you want then and tack weld, the tacks are enough to be able to try the door just to double check it swings open ok.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor011.jpg)
Then welded the hinges paying attention to do the bottom section of hinge to cabinet and top section to door lol, it would be easy to loose concentration and wed to both on the same section of hinge !
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor012.jpg)
The fitted door closed, just the handle /catch to do will have to see whats lying around.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor013.jpg)
The door open , lots more room to store stuff now :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathedoor014.jpg)
Cheers Mick.
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Nice 1 Mick, looks just right. There is a bit of wasted space even when the switchgear is there I guess.
Nick
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Looking good Mick
I like those hinges
You cant beat a bit of galvie plate for shelves :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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nice 1 micky ,not bad for a wood butcher.
peter
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Nothing wrong with that door and shelves!
:thumbup:
Dave
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Thanks for the comments lads :thumbup:
Bill I am with you now about the gravity thing, you could do it with the plate on top as you say :thumbup:, Mine would not have balanced anyway so did it the holding the stud method.
Nick , I am not sure exactly what the original switch gear looked like as mine did not have it but there would still be room for one shelf under it I think, or if you thought it was worth the hassle and wanted two shelves you could move the switch gear to panel mounted above the headstock ?
I have got some more bodywork done on the cabinet. The end cover that goes over the change gears had at some point in the past had the hinges welded back on and was misaligned , it also had an extra two holes drilled in it where a school must have bolted a small plate across the cover so kids could not open it, there was also a big gap at the top edge of the plate when it was held in the right position. The cover is alloy so more of a pain to put right as it needed T.I.G welded.
The previously welded repair to both hinges, the welding was ok but it had not been held in the right position when welded and the outsides of the welds were messy.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld004.jpg)
I cut the hinges off the cover and cleaned up both the hinges and cover with grinder.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld005.jpg)
After tinkering with the cover and the casing that it mated against till it matched nicely I clamped the door in place then tacked the hinges back on in the right position. This photo shows them ready to tack.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld006.jpg)
I then took the cover back off and welded up the hinges on the bench, it was not good stuff to weld and ended up welded but not pretty so I have dressed them up with the grinder and a soft disc, the finished job looks ok.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld011.jpg)
This shot shows the two extra holes that had been drilled in the housings above the clamps holding things in the right place, I have countersunk then ready to weld, the holes near the bottom of the shot are the proper ones where the spring latch fits.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld007.jpg)
This is them after they are welded up.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld010.jpg)
This is the top edge that left a gap when fitted in place , I have built the edge up by running a couple of beads of weld along the top, I will file it flat and square so it fits with better gap.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/lathealloyweld008.jpg)
There is still a few bits to do on the cabinet but its getting there :thumbup:
:beer: Mick.
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Nice repair Mick , your defiantly going to toon on it :)
You got good /cheep supplier for 2K ?
Rob
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Nice find on those hinges. Didn't realise that RS did them, I've been making my own when needed.
I have done the same on my TOS at the headstock end, it did have a cover but was screwed on because the motor is in there but still loads of space round it for the spare chucks.
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Hi John , they are really handy hinges, I forgot to mention in the post that they are £1.20 + VAT for a pair in that size so not worth making your own even if you can make them :thumbup: Its more the ease of fitting them that makes them cheap too very easy to line up tack, check then weld :thumbup:
Cheers Mick
-
I have got a bit more done to the end gear cover and cabinet, not much to show for how long its taken, just basically got it to line up nice now and it closes on the proper catch, I have just ground all the paint off the covers and cabinet. From past experience its better to start with bare metal than try to cover over old paint at least that way you know what you are putting on and should not get any nasty surprises, like standing back thinking ....umm thats looking good :thumbup: :clap: then seeing wrinkling start to appear all over :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: and its back out with the scraper :bang: :bang: :bang: lol.
The end cover lined up and cleaned up.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathealloyweld0003.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathealloyweld0002.jpg)
This is shot of the edge that was built up with Alloy weld after its been filed up, its about 3mm higher than it was to close the gap above it up.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathealloyweld0004.jpg)
The rest of the day was spent trying to work out if the coolant tank would fit on the end of the lather rather than the back, it won't really so is going back on the raer of the lathe , I will just have to leave enough gap behind to get to it. I have also been trying to work out my bracket for mounting the inverter and switch gear and move the work light as it kept knocking the chuck guard down when moved which was doing my head in so will have to be changed.
Cheers Mick.
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Looking good there Mick, some nice work going on.
I find it's worth leaving enough space behind the lathe so you can get in there & retrieve the part that just flew out, and in your case went over the swarf tray hit the wall behind & landed behind the lathe...
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Hi Ade, lol you are right a bit space behind is well worth having to retrieve half done items, also if I put with no access to behind the lathe I am assuming from previous experience that every single component at the rear of the lathe will fail in a random order at differing times :Doh: so even though there is not really space I will have to leave a gap............. or put it on castors :loco: :palm: just joking :D
Cheers Mick
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Hello Mick
It is not such a joke to put a L5 on castors, it is one of the few lathes that you can as the base is an integral part of the lathe.
Set up in the factory for portable use.
Many L5's were used on military ships and in the back of military lorry's for field use.
The wide spread use of the L5 in College and Schools was that it was possible to install move and re site at will without extensive bolting down to keep accuracy.
My L5A is on wheels and is jacked level, easy moved when back access is required.
It was for that reason I was a little concerned that you cut into the base of your lathe.
As you only took a little away I see no real problem with alignment.
I to have used the switch gear aperture as a cupboard, but without cutting any away.
I follow your refurbishment with great interest.
Trev
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Hi Trev ....... intersting stuff............it would be solving a few problems if I could move the lathe about, I have my Graduate woodturning lathe on locking castors and its fine and very handy to be able to move about.
How have you gone about mounting your lathe on wheels Trev, do you have any photos or comments about either ways to do it, or not do it ? I won't be doing anything to the lathe for a couple of days now so will have a serious think about the idea, I only put the comment 'just joking' as normally when you mention lathes and wheels people start to panic lol. The more things on wheels the better in general in my book :thumbup:
cheers Mick.
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Hello Mick
The following pics I took back in 06 and posted on the Harrison Group of Yahoo.
It was a simple and quick method I use on all my heavy equipment. (surface grinder, Mill, excetera ).
The wheels are cut from solid bar, suitable angle iron bolted to the base of the machine to hold the wheel axils.
The lifting angle has a lose bolt in the middle to stop any chance of slipping from a trolly jack.
The jack being the steering at either end thus allowing the machine to be moved sideways.
Once the machine is in place I use packing to level the machine and sit it down firm, the wheels are then left hanging.
I will take more photos showing the machine close to a wall and tucked in tight next post.
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Hi Trev, thanks for posting the photos, looks like you have found simple but effective way to do the job :thumbup: :clap: I like the trolly jack idea for the steering, keeps things simple.............. I might just be doing the wheel style L5 I think :beer:
Cheers Mick.
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I like that idea ... it's wheelie good :lol:
Lathe is looking great BTW Mick :thumbup:
-
Got back to the lathe today and made some jacking mounts.
After seeing Trev's idea ( Cheers Trev ) about putting wheels on and seeing what was lying around to make something out of. I have decided to do half of the idea :scratch:. When I thought about it once the lathe had the jacking points at each end I could move into the wall and back out again ok, the main object of movement is for the coolant tank and general maintanence, if it needed moved further the jacking points would also allow the lathe to raised to put rollers under it if I needed to moved about the workshop for any reason. The advantages of doing it this way for me are .......... I had nowt to make the wheels with handy lol , so dont need to make them and it means I can also use the original levelling bolts system. If I did want to add wheels this could be done at a later date anyway as the wheel carriage would bolt on using the levelling bolt holes.
This shot shows always pick bits up at the scrapyard that look like they will be handy one day :clap:, all these bits are scrapyard finds, no cutting needed :)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathejackpoints001.jpg)
Tacked together and the two holes that were not needed welded up.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathejackpoints003.jpg)
Tacked into place on cabinet
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathejackpoints006.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathejackpoints004.jpg)
All welded up and a bolt used the same as Trev did, to stop jack slipping off.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathejackpoints010.jpg)
The jack in place , works a treat :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathejackpoints009.jpg)
Should look quite original once painted, I think this would have been a good idea from the factory to be honest, it give you a starting point to get things moved especially if you are in a tight spot :thumbup:
Cheers Mick
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Hi
Mick
That will help in a tight corner :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
A little bit of under cut on those welds :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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Hi John, aye the welds have a few faults lol, but I woulldnt like to try to get them brackets back off I can tell you :lol: :lol:
Cheers Mick
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I think it would be a burner job :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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The L5, 11" and later 140 are easy to move around considering the weight.
Crow bar and lift then push under 4 scaffold tubes. One hand is all thats needed to get it moving. To get right up to walls it can be slid on the base with little effort, worst case with help of crow bar in the slots, just wind up the jacking feet.
Something like that on similar weight M300 would be ideal due to the two part base digging in.
Notice the 1" holes both ends of cabinet, they are alternative lifting holes to push a bar through. Also M16 thread in front of head is balance point for lifting.
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Hi Jonny, I knew the holes were for bars to go through the boxford shaper has the same type thing, I have never seen anyone use them mind, I will have to look for the M16 threaded hole , I can't say I have noticed it, I will have a look tomorrow. In the past I have moved the lathe as you say with crow bar in the end cut outs but not easy when things in the way at each end so hope the jack idea will be big improvement.
I have been distracted again , this time its linked to the lathe getting done, I have things lying about all over on trollies etc like chucks , rotary table , milling vices, dividing head etc and can't get moved for them. So after Rob Wilson kindly gave me some box section ( :thumbup: Cheers Rob ) I decided it was time to make a storage shelf unit to hopefully get all the heavy stuff kept in one place and take up less room, making doing the lathe a bit easier ( I hope )
The box section with end brackets from a previous life.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack001.jpg)
Cut up into bits to make the shelf unit.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack003.jpg)
Laid out on top of life size drawing on the floor for tack welding.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack005.jpg)
Starting to take shape, just tacking everything at this stage so it can be knocked into square.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack006.jpg)
Main frame square and tack welded , just the middle shelf supports and the height adjustable feet to do.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack007.jpg)
The floor is miles from level where the shelf unit will be positioned so I am welding some big nuts into the leg bottoms and the matching blots will act as levelling jacks, tacked into place in this shot, then welded all around.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack008.jpg)
This is the bottom of a leg once welded up , works great for unlevel floors and cheap to do :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack011.jpg)
The finished frame sitting on its adjustable feet. Every joint is fully seam welded lol , just like the good old days :clap:, I like things I make to last :D , unlike most things you can buy these days , one tack weld and an M6 bolt each shelf so the first time you move or load it up it disintegrates :bugeye: :palm:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack010.jpg)
Primed up with etch primer, I find the small size paint rollers ( 1 inch diameter, 4 inch long , cotton type , used for household decorating ) work best for this sort of frame, brushing is hard work and leaves rough finish and spraying wastes loads of paint and also covers everything in 3 foot radius of the frame with paint :palm:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Chuckstoragerack012.jpg)
I will paint it the usual RAL6011 Machinery green :drool: tomorrow and fit some 3/4 plywood shelf tops, then try to fit everything on it :scratch: , I hope it will all fit :scratch:
Cheers Mick.
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Nice looking stand Mick
I have a bench made with the same stuff :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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Mick, RAL 6011 aka Reseda Green is what Warco use on their Chinese stuff. I got the local branch of Johnstone's paints to mix some up for my Warco lathe, but when it needs a complete repaint I might choose something a bit more traditional.
I think the RAL classification is German, and 6011 was a shade once used on Mercs.
Andy
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Better welder than me, most of mine has to be ground off.
Looks like you have some room in there, garage or a workshop?
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Hi John , Aye good stuff .........and you can't beat the price :clap:
Andy, you are right Resenda green, I think there is a BS number for the same colour and they call it Machinery Green, Rust-oleum do a good areosol called 'hard hat' as do plasti-kote who call theirs 'rust not', They both cover and dry really well and ideal for touch ups or small parts like vices etc. I have got them both from Cromwell tools before but noticed Wilkinsons ( wilcos ) supermarket type shop has some colours from Plasti- kote in their paint and decorating section.
Jonny Cheers for the compliment on the welds ( there is still room for improvement mind ), its a garage come workshop, a garage thats been extended a couple of times and two cars get in there at night, so lots of room when the cars not there , not so much once they are inside.
Well the storage rack is done, I put 18mm plywood shelves on it and then remembered I had some ali chequer plate off cuts from the scrapyard, I wish I had remembered about them before deciding the size of the unit as I could have covered the whole shelves right up to the edges by knocking an inch or so off each end of the unit, The ali still does the job and things slide on it , just would have looked better notched out around the legs and going to the very edge.
First it was painted with the small roller Machinery Green.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/chuckstorage002.jpg)
Then the plywood shelves attached with countersunk self tappers, The two bottom shelves only just fitted in the gap with a struggle if the shelves had of been any less height between them they would not have tilted and fitted into the gap.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/chuckstorage003.jpg)
Then two of the chequer off cuts per shelf were drilled and small ring shank nails hammered into the lowest part of the chequer pattern so the nail heads would notstick up and catch things getting slid onto the shelves. You can see what I mean about the ali being a bit short at the edges but still serves its purpose.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/chuckstorage005.jpg)
The finished job in position and with most of the stuff that will be getting kept on it , I will have a better decide on what goes where etc as time goes on.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/chuckstorage007.jpg)
The Hoffman dividing head was only just able to be lifted onto the top shelf but the J&S 15 inch rotary table will need two to lift it or engine hoist, it weighs almost as much as the shelf unit itsself lol.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/chuckstorage006.jpg)
At the moment I seem to have less space than when I started due to the stuff I have had to move to accomadate the shelves lol but once its all put away it will be a step in the right direction.
Cheers Mick.
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Cracking job Mick
Shame about the colour :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
That deviding head looks to be a heavy bugger
John
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:update:
Well at long last I have managed to do a bit more on the lathe, I have just been distracted by one thing and another for weeks so not had time. I have moved the lamp along the back of the splash guard as if the lamp was in the best position every time I moved the chuck guard up it would hit the lamp arm or if the chuck guard was in the up position and I moved the lamp it would knock the chuck guard down. Set further along the splash guard and chuck guard should not effect each other.
I cut the old lamp bracket up so I had the mounting end and a few more bits of plate were cut up to make the mount, I will bolt it to the splash guard. This is the parts for the mounting bracket.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lampbracket001_zpsfb2a4430.jpg)
This is the bracket welded up and mounted should do the job :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lampbracket002_zps9c0126ee.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lampbracket003_zpsc677dd50.jpg)
The next job is to make a mounting plate and brackets to house the inverter and a metal switch box that will have the switches for on / off , suds , lamp etc. While I was at a car boot sale today I spotted this panel, that must have been some sort of display I think. I asked the man how much he wanted for it and he said £2 ....... :bugeye:, so needless to say it came home with me :thumbup: :drool:.
This is the box with the stuff mounted as bought , the coloured indicators are ledtec 240v led indicators with coloured diffusers.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lampbracket004_zpsd9d94ef0.jpg)
This is switches etc removed, in total , an isolator switch 20A, five coloured indicators, a key type switch with two keys, an emergency stop switch , a stop switch and a side to side two way switch, a couple need the contact blocks but you can get them separate.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lampbracket005_zpse807ed32.jpg)
So all in all a bargain and big help for working out my control panel.
Cheers Mick.
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I had a chance to do a bit more today, I started to make the addition to the splash guard , there was a gap between what the chuck guard and the splash guard managed to stop spraying out the back, which resulted in a stripe of suds up the wall. I decided to make a wrap around addition behind the chuck to cover the gap. I removed the tube that covers the edge of the guard from the area and will replace this with new stuff once the part is welded in place.
The sheet is about 16 guage or 1.6mm thick so ok to weld but stiff to bend when you have no bending gear :scratch: after a bit of tapping around a tube it is looking more like what I am after, looks a bit too much like a lump of plate added on though, so a bend is needed :dremel:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathesplashguard002.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathesplashguard003.jpg)
Another bend and a bit sliced off and its taking shape
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathesplashguard004.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathesplashguard005.jpg)
I mig welded inside and out and bashed it on the anvil while still hot to get it as nice a bend as I could, I will weld it to the existing guard then put the cover tubing around so it looks neat and matches the rest of the guard. It fits ok but I might trim the top off a bit yet as it is taller than needed really.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathesplashguard006.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/lathesplashguard007.jpg)
That was as far as I got today so watch this space :thumbup:
Cheers Mick.
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M300 chuck guard.
Dont spoil it and paint it green.
When done yours you can do mine.
Like that box of switches.
Wanted a radiator but no wall room :thumbup:
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M300 chuck guard.
Dont spoil it and paint it green.
When done yours you can do mine.
Like that box of switches.
Wanted a radiator but no wall room :thumbup:
Nowt wrong with Resida Green. When I fitted a large roller shutter door to my barn, which is my workshop, I asked the wife what colour she wanted. She pointed at the barn outlook of our fields and hedges and she said 'that colour'. The chap fitting it got his colour chart out and Resida Green was the average of the green outlook. Since then I've painted all the exposed steel work to match with Resida Green tractor paint from an excellent seller on ebay.
AWEM
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Hi Jonny and AWEM, thanks for your comments, I think you should both be happy, as although I am painting the harrison the proper Harrison grey just so it looks like it should when it was new , I still will be painting almost evrything else in sight, Resenda green :thumbup: , although a few people seem to have a complex about the green I still think its a proper machine colour and most industrial factory type machinery is painted that green, it covers great and things look fresh when in that colour, I also wanted the workshop to have a consistant colour so anything that needed painted was all done green. :clap:
I have got the addition to the splash guard finished today, I was going to go out and get some steel tube to edge the are with but after I put the local radio on and heard the total gridlock on the roads due to flooding around the Newcastle area I decided it would have to be made out of some stainless tube I had lying around, it was only long enough with 1 inch to spare :bow:
I cut the part down in height as it was taller than needed, I did this with an angle grinder and a 1mm thick cutting disc , they work really well.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1001.jpg)
I bent the stainless tube with a plumbers pipe bender as it was only thin walled.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1003.jpg)
I tack welded the bent tube to the top as a starting point then cut to suit with the angle grinder.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1005.jpg)
I pieced in the other bits of tube and welded up the joins , the front will match the original frame , they had actually used split tube so no welds on the back of the original as its only welded at the ends and joints. The back will not be seen as the lathe will be up against a wall , the rear tacks look worse in the photo than they are too but hold the trim tight and look original from the front side. :thumbup:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1007.jpg)
Starting to take shape, I have ground down the welds between the original and the new part too.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1008.jpg)
The finished job with the chuck guard and lamp in place to triple check nothing is going to hit anything it should not hit, all looking ok :drool:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1009.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1010.jpg)
Next job is to make a fixture to attach the electrics box to , that will be located above the headstock and will bolt on via the four bolts tapped into the rear of the casting. So it looks like more cutting and welding tomorrow :D
Cheers Mick.
-
I have managed to do a bit more of the electric box mounting today. I am making it out of what I have rather than what I would use in an ideal world so its a bit more robust than needed but at least it will not fall off :thumbup: The overall plan is to have a rear alloy plate to which will mount the inverter , a die cast alloy box to house the switch gear and transformer for the lo-volt lamp, along with a red three phase socket ( this will be used for the out-put of the inverter going to the lathe motor but will also mean other things could be plugged into the socket (chop saw)or three phase motors tested by plugging into the socket too) I have also decided to make the top of the vertical plate have a horizontal shelf to stop any debris going into the inverter top vents, this shelf will be edged with alloy angle and will do for storing dial indicator s etc.
This is the two bits of 5mm thick alloy plate I have lying about. Due to the large bit only being an inch bigger than ideal I decided to leave it this size.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1001-1.jpg)
It will go roughly like this photo and have the shelf along the top edge, you can just see the markings where the inverter will go on the left side and the box on the right side at the top below it will go the legend plate for the lathe speeds. I have placed the clutch and gear levers back into position just to make sure everything has room to operate.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1003-1.jpg)
This is the bracket it will mount to that is bolted to the rear of the headstock casing.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1002.jpg)
The rear frame cut and clamped ready for welding, again just made from what I had about.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1005-1.jpg)
Welded up and clamped into position, this frame might get bolted to the headstock angle bracket but due casing not being flat it sits slightly off verticle so I might hold it into position and weld it to the angle bracket.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1008-1.jpg)
I will either use these holes to bolt through or plug weld them to the angle bracket if it needs to become 'one part' to compensate for the rear plate not sitting verticle.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheelectricbox1009-1.jpg)
Cheers Mick.
-
Hi
Mick
I think your switch mount should be man enough for the job :D :D :D :D
Pleased you are painting the lathe grey :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
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Very nice work :bow: :bow: :bow:
-
Nice work Mick!
:beer: :beer:
Dave
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I finally got back to doing the lathe today , I had an alloy damaged box I found at the scrapyard ages ago that needed patching up and holes filled in. Its going to be used as the main electrics box housing the transformer for the lo volt light and the main operating switches. An alloy switch box for the emergency switch with a hole that was bigger than my switch that needed filled so I could then drill the right size hole. The alloy shelf that will sit above the electrics box and inverter needed some alloy angle to go around the rim so things will not fall off the shelf. I have just spent an age trying to work out how to get the photos done on the new photo bucket so fingers crossed I have got it right or there may be no photos on this post lol.
The switch box cover with a hole that is too big.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf013.jpg)
Welded the patch in, welding could be better but will do the job.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf014.jpg)
Looks ok once ground off then sanded, I will now drill it the right size for the switch I have.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf021.jpg)
The corner of the alloy angle ready to weld , this will go around the shelf so things can not rattle off the edge.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf015.jpg)
This is it once welded , ground off and sanded.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf023.jpg)
The main electrics box was smashed on one side and had various holes drilled in it like these four here.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf004.jpg)
The four holes welded up, the clamp is holding a block of steel up onto the undersdie of the holes to stop the weld drooping through.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf006.jpg)
The area once ground off and sanded.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf019.jpg)
The main damage was on one side of the box , I cut out the badly dented bit and let in some alloy plate the same thickness, I clamped it in place with the steel block under the area to be welded and tack welded it into position.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf003.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf010.jpg)
The joins were then welded up around the patch.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf011.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf012.jpg)
The area patched side once , ground off filed and sanded, by some miracle whatever had damaged the box had missed the lid otherwise it would not have been worth trying to repair.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf018.jpg)
Well all looks to have posted ok , but scary 15 minutes as Photo bucket as usual locked the computer up right at the end of the post so thought I had lost the lot :bugeye: but lucky the post was still there on restart :thumbup:
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick
Nice welding looks like a new box, did you use a mig welder ? I find restoring machinery very rewarding. The school I
attended had two lathes a Boxford and a Harrison L5. I always tried to use the Harrison, being a much better lathe, with more
facilities. I cut my first square threads both internal and external, for a screw jack, using the L5. Glad to see you making progress.
Cheers David
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Thanks David , it was a T.I.G welder set on AC I used to do the welding, its a Migtronic mte220 welder that is very good ( better than me ! ) I dont have a foot pedal control so some bits of alloy welding can bi tricky as heat builds up and suddenly what you are welding becomes a lump of mush :bugeye:, that happened on one bit last night when I was getting tired, I have to work out how to fix it today....... it will involve even more tricky welding :palm:
I have only heard good things about the Harrison L5 so hope all my effort will be worth it in the end :thumbup:
Cheers Mick
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"I have only heard good things about the Harrison L5 so hope all my effort will be worth it in the end :thumbup:"
I am sure you will like it, it is a dream hands on machine, that tolerates many mistakes.
I am still following your progress by installments.
Regards
Trev
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This is the corner that I melted last night, the shelf part is about 5mm thick and the angle edging about 2-3mm thick so any hesitation or the weld pool not forming straight away and this happens :palm:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2001.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2002.jpg)
I decided a patch was the best way so cut a scrap to fit but this time left it longer so the thinner part had more bulk to soak up the heat and also decided I would weld these similar bits together then weld the rear edging angle to them before attempting to join them near the corners and along the rear to the thicker shelf so again there would be more of the thinner edging to conduct the heat before it would melt away. This is the patch in place and cleaned where it needs welding.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2005.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2004.jpg)
I have now clamped the patch to the main angle edging with the steel block behind to again stop the alloy sagging if it gets too hot.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2008.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2007.jpg)
It welded fine this time , just had to be quick and make sure there was enough weld bead at the ends so when it is dressed up it will still have the straight edge .
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2009.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2010.jpg)
After a bit of grinding, filing and sanding and trimmed off to length it looks fine :drool:
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2012.jpg)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/latheshelf2011.jpg)
I have cut the edging for the rear of the shelf but for some reason the welder has started to trip the garage and house breakers so after three attempts and all the lights going off have gave up for today, I will have to investigate tomorrow :palm:
Cheers Mick
-
Hi
Mick
Pleased to see you are back on the job
Your alloy welding looks fine
A foot pedal makes a massive differance to the ease of welding
John
-
Nothing new to post I am afraid lads , as it looks like fault on the welder is causing the breaker to trip each time it turned on :zap: :bang: :bang: :bang:, so as usual one job leads to another job as the first job stands unfinished :palm: :palm:. My mate who knows about these matters is coming to test things on Saturday so fingers crossed its something fixable.
I noticed the welder let me down the instant I mentioned that Migatronic was good kit .................. Typical , I should have known better :(
Cheers Mick
-
Hi
Mick
I know that feeling very well :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
I have a migatronic mig at work that gets hammerd every day
I also have a smaller one at home
Migatronic is good gear
I hope your fault is a simple one
John
-
Nothing new to post I am afraid lads , as it looks like fault on the welder is causing the breaker to trip each time it turned on :zap: :bang: :bang: :bang:, so as usual one job leads to another job as the first job stands unfinished :palm: :palm:. My mate who knows about these matters is coming to test things on Saturday so fingers crossed its something fixable.
I noticed the welder let me down the instant I mentioned that Migatronic was good kit .................. Typical , I should have known better :(
Cheers Mick
Keep trying bigger circuit breakers - eventually the fault will reveal itself in the welder - just follow the smoke back to it's source :Doh: :doh: :doh: :Doh:
My professional welder mate uses Migatronic stuff pretty much exclusively, so it's obviously (normally) good stuff.
-
dont tell him to do that we did that at work ( Stanton Iron Works ) on the DC system it was a floating system with neither leg decked , we used two lamp in series with the centre point connected to earth to fault find earths ( a fault one the - to deck and one on the + to deck was a short ) but it could play tricks with the control ccts
the object of the post revolves around a stubborn earth fault we knew which breaker it was on 500a one so we strapped a large copper bar on a spare 1000a breaker to earth for the other leg , switched on a bit of a spark ( these were open switch gear ) the fault cleared ,
we when down stairs for a brew hey Jeff I can here a fire engine going up the road ( we had our own works Fire engine ) the oil store was in flames we found out later that it had DC lighting ccts so we did find the fault but burn down the oil stores about 500 gals of lub oil for the cranes and machine shop
so yes you may find the fault but it can backfire on you Take care with the sparky stuff it does not take prisoners if it get you hand to hand :zap:
Stuart
-
:update: :dremel: After a long break from the lathe I have finally got back to it ( Again lol ) just carried on where I left off with the mounting of the electric boxes.
This it the alloy backing plate and the top shelf mounted in location.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter003.jpg)
The front plate is getting drilled and counter sunk and the rear frame tapped to suit, I am mounting a red 3 phase socket to the rear of the panel so the motor can be plugged in, this way if I want to test 3 phase motors I can just wire a plug to them and use the lathes inverter to test things or even wire something else 3 phase up and use the lathe controls.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter004.jpg)
This is the alloy box for the emergency off switch that I am fitting to the front of the machine its knee height, easy to knock power off .....just in case I ever need it. As you can see the box is not square which made marking off the corner that needed cut out more hassle, I hacksawed and drilled the section out and cleaned up with files.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter006.jpg)
I have removed a section that was stopping the box fitting flat and it just needs bolted on now.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter007.jpg)
In final position with switch fitted.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter009.jpg)
This is the backplate and shelf all bolted up and the inverter and switch box fitted , the speed legend plate is bolted under the switch box as it was ackward to see mounted on top of the head stock as standard.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter008.jpg)
This is the box lid drilled with the layout of the switches , there will be main power on/off , a power on indicator light, start and stop push buttons, a forward/reverse switch , a speed control rotary knob , a suds switch and lamp switch.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Latheinverter010.jpg)
This is all just test fitting and the plan is tho then paint things before final fitting and installing wiring, I already know of distractions coming up but am just going to keep at the lathe till its done now so more updates to follow SOON !
Cheers Mick.
-
Nothing new to post I am afraid lads , as it looks like fault on the welder is causing the breaker to trip each time it turned on :zap: :bang: :bang: :bang:, so as usual one job leads to another job as the first job stands unfinished :palm: :palm:. My mate who knows about these matters is coming to test things on Saturday so fingers crossed its something fixable.
I noticed the welder let me down the instant I mentioned that Migatronic was good kit .................. Typical , I should have known better :(
Cheers Mick
Mick
What did you find was the problem with the welder that caused the breaker to trip? I didn't recall seeing the answer. My appologies if I missed it.
Nice fitting of the emergency box and switch. :D :D
Cheers :beer:
Don
-
Hi
Mick
Nice to see you back on the job :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
John
-
Nothing new to post I am afraid lads , as it looks like fault on the welder is causing the breaker to trip each time it turned on :zap: :bang: :bang: :bang:, so as usual one job leads to another job as the first job stands unfinished :palm: :palm:. My mate who knows about these matters is coming to test things on Saturday so fingers crossed its something fixable.
I noticed the welder let me down the instant I mentioned that Migatronic was good kit .................. Typical , I should have known better :(
Cheers Mick
Mick
What did you find was the problem with the welder that caused the breaker to trip? I didn't recall seeing the answer. My appologies if I missed it.
Nice fitting of the emergency box and switch. :D :D
Cheers :beer:
Don
Hi Don , I never really got to the bottom of it except to work out the breaker is on borderline and if the welder is set to AC when switched on it sometimes trips, but if set to DC then switched on it never trips..... If set to DC , switched on, then once on set to AC it wont trip.................. so as I am not looking for probems I just switch on in DC mode then transfer to AC :D so far so good so fingers crossed it will stay that way :thumbup:
-
Hi Don , I never really got to the bottom of it except to work out the breaker is on borderline and if the welder is set to AC when switched on it sometimes trips, but if set to DC then switched on it never trips..... If set to DC , switched on, then once on set to AC it wont trip.................. so as I am not looking for probems I just switch on in DC mode then transfer to AC :D so far so good so fingers crossed it will stay that way :thumbup:
Mick
In other words, you are outsmarting it by trickery. I love a clever solution like that. :lol: :lol:
What ever works is fair game. :lol: :lol:
Cheers :beer:
Don
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I have got more done to the lathe today, it does not look like much on photos but there has been lots of thinking of what will fit where and where cables have to go etc . Then lots of drilling holes for cable glands and also mounting things so tapping half them and just bolting others. The main rear alloy plate is some horrible gummy type alloy and just clogs drills and hole saws up so I have had to use WD40 on them which is last thing I wanted with painting being one of the next stages but no way around it really and the lathe still needed a good de -grease anyway.
This is the switch panel box with most of the holes drilled , the reason for drilling the larger holes in the box is the threaded part of the cable glands are not long enough to pass right through the backing plate and the box so I needed space for the securing nut on the back of the glands.
The way I am doing it I will be able to paint the bracket , backing plate and box then re assemble and wire everything up off the lathe then just mount the whole lot pre wired and plug in the motor , lamp , suds pump and just have the flex to the knee height emergency switch to connect, this way it can all be done, then put out the way until the rest of the lathe is done, also in the future if any component fails it should be able to be unplugged and took off with out opening the switch panel up.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/latheswitchbox1002.jpg)
This is the rear of the panel , the motor will plug into the red socket on the back here, I will also have flexes with plugs on them for the coolant pump and the lo - volt lamp.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/latheswitchbox1003.jpg)
The finished switch panel will look something like this , there is room to make labels above each switch on the panel, the two big switches at the bottom will be for the coolant and the lamp , they are much heavy duty than needed but were cheap. Then there is stop , start , below these are forward/ reverse and speed control as well as the main isolator and power on light.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/switchpanel001.jpg)
Next job is to get all these bits ready for primer ........... then paint them grey.
Cheers Mick.
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Looking good Mick :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
John
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Good Evening All , Well at long last I have got a bit more done to the Harrison. I have done various things without photos , like diamond filing the burs off every single cog tooth in the whole gearbox ....... not a five minute job , I have all new bearings for the spindle and new oil seals and generally cleaned and inspected everything. I managed to get the gear cog I needed to replace because of chipped teeth, thanks are due to Peter ( Bacup Hillbilly ) who had a spare gear cog and shaft , the holes in the clutch plates are oval and the pins worn, this was making the clutch grab and sometime not disengage , I have got new roller bearing pins and Rob Wilson is kindly going to drill and press the new pins in ( I was not confident of doing a good job of it ) Cheers Rob. The other part that was worn was a brake pad disc that is operated by the clutch lever, I did not even know it was there so have never used it ! It had wore down to the countersunk fixing bolts was was steel on steel not bronze on steel. The original was made of a bronze type brake material with particles inbedded in it, I could not get any of this so have made one out of bronze, it should still do the job.
This is the worn out part, the three holding coutersunk set screws had just been rubbing.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Alloyframe018.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Alloyframe018.jpg.html)
2 inch bronze bar, skimmed to size.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Alloyframe024.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Alloyframe024.jpg.html)
Drilled out in a couple of stages to almost the right ID , the drill is car boot job , rusty but sharp where it counts !
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Alloyframe026.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/Alloyframe026.jpg.html)
I marked out the three holes and drilled them on the Bridgeport.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/bronzedisc001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/bronzedisc001.jpg.html)
I then skimmed the top surface so it was the right depth to the countersink s, then parted off.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/bronzedisc002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/bronzedisc002.jpg.html)
The new disc in place along side the old one, its only after looking at this photo I think I might mill the three recessed flats into it as per the original so it has even contact with the steel collar it presses against , as it is it might wear uneven around the holes ? it wont do any harm to do it anyway.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/bronzedisc003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/bronzedisc003.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick
-
:update: I have milled that disc so its like the original part , not much else done but hope to get more done this week.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/carboothaul008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202012/Madmodders%202013/carboothaul008.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick
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Hi Mick,
Fantastic thread! I'm rebuilding a Centec mill at the moment, so your experiences are particularly apt for me right now. You've done a cracking job so far, and I can't wait to see her finished!
In the meantime, I just wondered what your plans for painting are? I always struggle at that point, having no spray facilities. During previous machine rebuilds I've tried brushing machine enamel and also experimented a little with foam rollers, the latter with positive if mixed results. I noticed you'd used mini rollers for your metal rack, hence wondered what you had in mind for the lathe? Unless of course you have the space and kit to spray?
Cheers
Graeme
-
Hi Graeme , glad you are enjoying the project and hope your Centec mill is coming along ok. As far as the painting goes , I am going to mostly spray the lathe and probably roller and brush some tricky parts , like in the webs of the bed, inside the storage cupboards etc.
I have never got very impressive results brushing paint on myself, I know it can be done but doing it yourself is another matter. When I have used the mini rollers I have had the best results with the ones that are more or less like velvet , a very short soft smooth surface , I think they might be meant for emulsion paint ? , the pound shop type ones seem to leave bits of fluff all over but if you get a half decent one and roll quite slowly they work well , I have used the foam type but they either seem to sort of expand and melt with the paint or leave lots of little bubbles that pop and leave marks. I did the metal frame with the foam type and its ok for the metal frame but not that smooth really, if you see it close up.
Two tips I have found out are , You can sometimes roller the paint on then once its covered evenly and still wet, if there are say small bubbles or roller marks , you can gently go over it with a soft brush lighly, just dragging across the surface and it smooths out quite well. Or if you are going to roller , if you first go around hard to get into type areas brushing the paint on , say around hinges on a cabinet door etc but overlap onto flat bits , then you can roller all the easy bits and sort of roller into and just over the brushed areas and it melts in but probably looks better than just brushing , especially on larger fat areas, this is if your roller is working well and looking nice. Hope this helps a bit Graeme , I will starting to paint things next week I hope so will post my progress anyway .
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick,
Thanks for your feedback on this - that actually helps a lot! I had been put onto rollers by a chap on another forum, and found they worked much better than brushing. I am using a machine enamel specially formulated for brush application, so it dries a little slower than standard enamel to allow the brush marks to flow out. It does work, and the results are reasonable with brush application, but the roller is significantly better, especially on large flat areas. It's not perfect by any means, but looks to me like an averagely reasonable sprayed finish - which is good enough for what I'm doing here, given that I don't have the option to spray!
I've been using foam rollers from Wickes - basically ten for five pounds, so you can afford to use them once and chuck them out. Cleaning a roller of oil based paint would be my idea of hell, hence I quite like this approach. They don't seem to be affected by the solvent in the paint I am using - a synthetic thinners - which is good, though I did worry about that before I tested them. You're right about the tiny bubbles though. My first attempt was plagued by them, but I found that if you run the roller over the surface lightly and rapidly as a last pass, it seems to flatten them all.
Where I have remaining problems - and where your final suggestion might work - is when painting around the "fiddly bits". When painting a big flat featureless area, like a panel or the boxy base, they work really well. However when painting round obstructions, like in my case where the drive shafts emerge from the body, or the gearbox levers emerge, I've found that the consistency of paint thickness is poor, and the results then look really patchy in terms of surface finish. The paint is just too thinly applied and doesn't flow to form a continuous skin. This could be because I'm using foam rollers, which aren't the best. I've tried extra hard to avoid this, but end up over working the paint with lots of attempts, and the results are not great.
I could try more expensive rollers, but I'm thinking that if I use your idea of painting those parts first, using a brush to lay down a full paint film, and then using the roller to flatten out the brush marks, I could be in business. Just a case of doing it all quickly before the paint starts to skin. I reckon I can do that!
So, many thanks for taking the time to share your ideas. This weekend I will test your suggestion on the remaining parts left to paint (that currently have a poor finish around the fiddly bits!).
Cheers
Graeme
-
Hi Mick,
Fantastic thread! I'm rebuilding a Centec mill at the moment, so your experiences are particularly apt for me right now. You've done a cracking job so far, and I can't wait to see her finished!
In the meantime, I just wondered what your plans for painting are? I always struggle at that point, having no spray facilities. During previous machine rebuilds I've tried brushing machine enamel and also experimented a little with foam rollers, the latter with positive if mixed results. I noticed you'd used mini rollers for your metal rack, hence wondered what you had in mind for the lathe? Unless of course you have the space and kit to spray?
Cheers
Graeme
Any chance of piccies? I've got a Centec that I intend to do up (one day :coffee:)
Some one some where suggested that when using brush type enamels that warming up both the job and the paint before starting the job is a great help to achieving a good brushed finish. I've never tried it but one can see the logic.
-
I'll see what I can do - maybe start a new thread. I'm quite bad at logging progress in pictures, so I have a slightly sporadic set so far, but they do show before and after at least!
I started my re-paintwork in December, when the weather was still mild (12C). In January it got cold, and the paint definitely didn't flow. Being unable to raise the temperature of the sizeable cast iron lumps, I simply had to park that particular job until the weather improved. And this year that meant April, so with two coats of primer and a minimum of two topcoats, I'm only now near completion! I suspect if I could have warmed the iron sufficiently, and warmed the paint, it could have worked quite well even in the cold weather. I did try leaving a lamp inside the base of the machine overnight, but the thermal inertia of 500kg of iron meant no perceptible difference! Frustrating, though it did mean I was able to switch to a previously parked DIY job in the house, which has earned me enough credits to spend some good workshop time in the coming months!
Cheers
Graeme
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Well at last some real progress on the lathe.
From looking pretty much stripped right down again.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe060.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe060.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe059.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe059.jpg.html)
The mission was to get this lot back inside the headstock
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe054.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe054.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe056.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe056.jpg.html)
All the gears have been de burred, new spindle bearings and new oil seals, a couple of gears that had chipped teeth replaced and everything cleaned and checked over. The main problem with getting all the parts in seems to be most bits have to be inside the casing in their rough position but not actually in position and held there so that other things can be lined up at the same time, its a good job I had took plenty photos as my two manuals both have drawings that show several things that are not as this actual lathe so can do as much harm as help sometimes. Anyway after much struggling and trial and error , it all went back together and gears select and turn ok.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe064.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe064.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe066.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe066.jpg.html)
The next bit was the clutch , before the clutch used to snatch and sometimes not disengage, this was due to the pins in the vee pully that the clutch plate slide on having had notches worn into them and the clutch plates holes being worn oval. I was not confident of replacing the pins and drilling the plates spot on myself but Rob Wilson kindly did them for me , as you would expect Rob, he did a cracking job of them, cheers again Rob . You can see the pins in this photo, they have been fitted with slightly larger diameter roller bearing pins.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe057.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe057.jpg.html)
These are the plates with the new slightly larger holes drilled to match the new pins.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Micenumberlathe058.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Micenumberlathe058.jpg.html)
The clutch was then assembled, both the drawings were wrong and I could not remember at all how things went ! good job I had marked things as they came off, everything facing outwards received two small dot punch marks as you can see on second photo down at 12 O'clock , the steel clutch disc is flat one side and had a raised center on the other side as seen in third photo, it would have fit on either way but one way would be the wrong way , these marks ensured I put it in the correct way around so well worth taking the time to do this.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Denisowllathe001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Denisowllathe001.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Denisowllathe002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Denisowllathe002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Denisowllathe003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Denisowllathe003.jpg.html)
The next thing was a threaded collar on the end of the spindle has the holes chewed up so I drilled some new holes in the collar on the mill, lucky I already had the vee block and angle plate set up from doing something else on the mill as it would have taken longer to set up than do the holes.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Denisowllathe011.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Denisowllathe011.jpg.html)
This is the collar back on the spindle.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Denisowllathe012.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Denisowllathe012.jpg.html)
The clutch was then trial and error assembled, but would not seem to work, after looking at it really carefully I noticed witness marks inside an adjustable collar and remembered that I had put a small pin in a separate place in case it got lost , this was the missing link and once fitted it all seems to work ok.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Denisowllathe013.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Denisowllathe013.jpg.html)
The next stage is to prepare things for painting , a good bit of sanding , filling and priming needed, at least things should look as if they are progressing once some paint goes on.
Cheers Mick.
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It is starting to come back to life :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Very nice (clean) rebuild a credit to you :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
John
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Very nice, is the clutch adjustable in
Any way? Mine has started dragging and not disengaging, never really looked at it always just assumed It would be a simple matter of adjusting
Something but now thinking the pins
are probably worn like yours were.
-
well mick its shaping up nice :thumbup:
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Hi Nick ,
the clutch is adjustable, it would appear from my manuals there are several versions like everything else Harrisons did lol, You can tension the spring at the end by screwing the retaing top hat sort of part in that the spring sits in, but if you remove that ( LH thread ) and take the spring off under this is the steel disc you can see that is between the spring and the copper friction plate in the photo. This is another top hat shaped part that has splines inside it that slide over the drive shaft, if you remove this, its actually two parts screwed together the far side of it rests against the pin going through the shaft, by screwing and unscrewing these parts within each other it in effect makes this part thicker or thinner where the pin pushes up against it, when you screw this inner centre section around the splines will line up then not line up as you go, you will need a point where both sections are in alingment to slide it back onto the shaft or it will only slide back on half way if that makes sense. I am not sure which way it needs turned to be honest, for the dragging or not driving effect, I was just going to try and see once the motor etc is on.
If you have a go with yours Nick I would just note whats where as you inspect and count turns etc as you take apart so you can get it back to where it was if all else fails , but all in all not that much to it so have a go , I will be taking this back off as I need it off to get the back part of the belt cover back mounted again so can take photos then, that will show it better.
Cheers Mick
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Great job on a very impressive piece of machinery!! Looking forward to the next installment. :thumbup: :clap:
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Good to see the lathe going back together Mick :thumbup:
Rob
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Looking good mick,are you going to power it up before you paint it ?remember when I did the head on the bridgeport,I had to take it apart again because the power feed on the quill was not engaging correct,had to repaint the twat again, :thumbup:
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Thanks Mick, might have a look at that tonight.
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Tried adjusting that and backed the spring tension right off as far as I dare - still about 1/2 of threads on collar engaged. This has improved things but still drags when disengaged in low gears. I didn't bother trying to screw the other top hat apart, I think I'd need to shorten it but it was fully home. Think this would need stripping down somewhat to find out what the problem was.
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Hello again Mick,
Just wondered if you'd made any progress on the lathe re-build recently? Or is the next step of painting putting you off?!
Cheers
Graeme
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:update: :update: Well I have FINALLY got back to doing the Harrison, As Graeme suspected the painting was putting me off and after spending two full days sanding , scraping and bodging I was right to be put off lol .
This is the stage the lathe was at from last time, I had to jog my memory what was and was not done.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint001.jpg.html)
I then had to strip some bits off to make the prep for paint easier , which seemed like the wrong thing to do after its took so long to get back to ! Its the only way to get into things really though. This is after some parts removed and the bits that are still on have been masked up. You can not tell on the photos really but the castings are all back to bare metal so all the factory filler is off so quite a bit of filler needed, all horrible places to sand down too edges to stub fingers on etc. All inside the webs on the bed casting needed sanding and inside the cabinet.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint002.jpg.html)
Not to mention this little lot and a few more brackets etc that are not in the photo, every bit needs filler and sanding , all the stuff with gray paint on, had been painted by some naughty school boy as a punishment at some point so all has to be removed as its old caoch paint and scratched and battered and will probably react with the new paint, this is inside most of the covers too so lots of elbow grease involved in getting it al off or to a stage where its sound and smooth.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint004.jpg.html)
This is the pile of bits after the process, all dents and scratches etc filled and all the old paint gone or sanded to a decent lower layer, The cabinet door with Harrison cast into it still needs more work as it has horrible old paint around the raised letters , this will be pain to get off but the base layer of grey is not bad so I dont want to strip the paint right off as the casting will no doubt be rough and full of filler. I am going to etch prime the lot , check if any more filler is needed then high build primer the lot and the lathe too and do the apron, saddle , gearbox and tailstock as seperate job after...oh and the light the suds tank and frame....... oh and the motor and mounts ....oh and the steadies
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint010.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint010.jpg.html)
This is the lathe after a few sessions of filler and sanding , I have brush painted etch primer inside the cabinet and on the lower section I will give this a light sand and spray another coat over it when I spray the lathe, I have also sealed around the usual edges that trap oil and crap and done the same around seams on the splash guard. I am hoping to get it etch primed and primed tomorrow, Then a final rub down and grey paint which will be next week now. The plan is to get all this lot painted and then I can assemble the belt guards , motor , electrics box , cabinet doors etc then prep and paint all the other parts the other parts.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint012.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonL5paint012.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick.
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It will look great once you get it painted :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
The attention to detail is a credit to you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It wont be green will it :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:
John
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Nice one Mick, We'll keep willing you on to finish her this time,she's gonna be a classy looker.
It was this lathe project of yours that originally guided me to this forum and as I've said previous I own an L6 MK1. I can see from your photo album the gearbox internals are pretty much identical to my own. We have both arrived at a similar solution for the rattly clutch fix except my oversize replacement pins were machined from carbon steel,I would have preferred the rollers you used but I never thought about that option at the time(May 2013). The other problem we've both encountered and arrived at similar solution is the burrs raised on the gear bevels (mine are also sporting evidence of clumsy gear changes) you solved it with diamond files and stones,and I'm going to use diamond discs in the rotary tool to correct the damage.
I picked up a couple of the original Harrison 'C' spanners of the internet for dismantling and adjusting the headstock taper bearing lock rings,some brute has been at them with pin punch in the past.
Did you fit new Timkens in the headstock? if so where did you get them from and what sort of price?...OZ.
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Cheers John , Oz I did replace the bearings , They were Timkens but I replaced them with a cheaper make but same spec , it ended up about £100 for the two taper bearings and races, the front one has a flange on the race to set the depth, G&Mtools on Ebay did have new old stock for some Harrison Bearings so if you know the numbers you might be lucky. What spindle nose does your L6 have ? , I have been told they are the same as mine , that is two and a quarter inch 6tpi Whitworth, I still need a drive plate and face plate if they are the L6 fitment it might be easier to find them.
:update: Well after another day of none stop masking last minute rubbing down and general cleaning spray guns etc etc , I have made some more progress.
A bit more masking off of machined surfaces and a general sort out and sweep up, panels arranged upside down to do the etch primer underside then once dry turn them over and do the side that matters.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52001.jpg.html)
All coated in self etch primer , no nasty surprises and it always looks better when things become one colour , you fell like you are finally getting somewhere. I fitted the one door back onto the cabinet but the other needs a good go over so the primer would not have got done today if I had got the cast door ready too so will do that in with the next batch of parts. It took a bit of messing about to do one side then the other then move some parts so there was room for the other bits but got there in the end.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52003.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52004.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52005.jpg.html)
As I was doing the etch primer I could hear screaching from the compressor belt and the rate at which the pump going was varied, as the etch was drying I truied to tighten up the belt but the motor was already as far as it would go so I had to drill four holes in about 10mm plate where the motor mounts and file them into slots joining the exhisting holes , the compressor if in a cupboard so not an easy task took about two hours but did the job. I then sprayed three coates of high build two pack primer, the castings etc got a bit more so they will flat down nice and smooth, all went well and no reactions of paint so as long as its dried without a hitch its almost ready for the gray top coat. These last shots were taken with the primer still wet.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52006.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52006.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52007.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52008.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52009.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonL52009.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick
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Mick that is looking superb :thumbup:
Don't you find that the overspray gets everywhere? I was amazed, when I had to spray my Edwards folder indoors, that although I'd put sheets up and lined the floor, and was careful to be lenient with the gun, a fine sticky dust settled all over the place :scratch:
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Hi Andrew, I know what you mean and it is a problem but this paint is the lesser of the evils like cellulose its tens to dry in the air so londs as dust as long as things are not too close to where the item getting sprayed is. The enamel type paints like the old Techaoyd type stuff is horrible the whole workshop takes a coat of fine wet mist, two pack is not much better too.
I like this paint for finish and hard wearing but the less mess element of it is the main reason I like it.
Cheers Mick.
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Cracking job Mick, I certainly admire your tenacity. Nice big open work space you have there too - I'm very jealous of that!
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Cracking job Mick, I certainly admire your tenacity. Nice big open work space you have there too - I'm very jealous of that!
Hi there, Mick,
I certainly agree with both of Pete's comments.
Nobody has responded to my requests for help about painting on my Myford QC Gearbox thread. Once I've drilled and tapped all the holes for the fittings on my gear cover casting, I've got to paint it. I was anticipating using Hammerite Special Metal primer, it's water-based and I assume from the chromate yellow colour it's an etch primer. Then I was going to finish coat with Myford grey brushing enamel. Alternatively, I might use what John Stevenson calls a 'rattle can' if I can source one the right colour at an affordable price. That would be the nearest I could get to spray painting. I hadn't considered using a filler - what filler have you used?
I've recently been watching a series of Youtube videos by Dan Gelbart. His video on surface preparation is interesting. He reckons preparation by washing with a solvent is useless because it leaves a surface layer of hydrocarbons one or two molecules thick, microscopically thin but he says it's still thick enough to prevent the paint bonding to the metal surface. But then he's using powder coating.
He also shows a natty electrostatic painting rig - the job is grounded and the paint (powder) gun is at 30 kV!!! :zap: :zap: :zap:
I don't remember his giving a maker's name for the gun and I haven't researched it myself yet.
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well its looking brill mick its a bawt time you started to put it back together
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Cheers Pete ,
Hi Pete W I havent seen the hammerite special metal primer but if its water based I doubt it will be etch primer but I could be wrong. You can get rattle (spray cans of etch primer from motor paint suppliers ) which might be an option , you can also get spray filler primer too in cans but to be honest its not as thick as you could spray it through a spray gun so a half hearted version really. Rustoleim brand do good cans of gloss in lots of machine and RAL colours , they probably do primers too, Cromwell tools sells them so you could look up online.
In general with this old stuff if its not too big or a total nightmare shape you are better off getting back to metal or mostly metal, then using car body filler Davids isopon P38 or similar fill the worst deep stuff or if an area has multiple srtatchs , gouges or dents try to do a skim right over the area and then sand down using say P80 grit with foam block etc to contour it, once the shape is ok and edges feathered in sand overall with say P240 then 320 then etch and then filler prime it, you will then see how good you have got the surface and may have to re do some areas but the bodge is hard and sandable in minutes and the primers both dry quite quickly too especially if you warm the part with a fan heater too. Once you are happy with the primer give it a light sand with about P600-800 and three coats of gloss if you are spraying and you should get a good finish.
Its all in the preperation Pete so unless your finshed primer once sanded looks spot on your top coat will only highlight any flaws, Mind I am being a total fanny here and want car type finish so you can probably cut some corners and still get a smart looking finish for a machine :)
Bob ...............You aare dead right Its about time I got this project done :palm:... next week will see big changes, today a funeral and dentist appointment spoilt progress.
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Hi Mick,yes I can confirm (2 1/4" X 6TPI) spindle nose thread on my L6.
Have you considered getting hold of a 5" chuck backplate and making a faceplate up by attaching an old car or light commercial vehicle engine flywheel from the breakers or cheaper option still is to machine and screw cut your own mounting boss to suit spindle thread and fit an old flywheel to that,
I can give you the dimensions of a standard Harrison 10" faceplate if you wish.
I've gone this homemade route a couple of times myself to make faceplates and also as circular table for the pillar drill.
Vehicle flywheels tend to made of decent stuff in order to withstand the high loads exerted on them.
Here is a link to a L5/L6chuck backplate casting for sale on G&M ebay shop,but I think he's being a bit ambitious with the quoted carriage cost .....OZ
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-2-1-4-x-6TPI-Chuck-Backplate-Harrison-L5-L6-140-Lathe-etc-Clearance-Price-/360838637858?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5403a8a922
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Hi Oz, I had seen that chuck back plate on Ebay but he is being a tad greedy I think , I just missed one that went for £6.50 as forgot when the listing ended ....same old story , I can probably make them at a push and no great rush for them just good to know that it is the same fittment as the L6 as does open up the chance of finding one maybe ?
Well I am glad to say things have moved on a bit over the weekend and the main parts of the lathe are now covered in three coats of grey paint. There was the usual messing about trying to sort out how to spread out all the parts to be done and still be able to get around them to paint them, I had to make a couple of brackets and mounts but managed in the end, once spraying I used a hand held lamp to move about and keep the reflection in the right place , this is to see where the paint is covering wet and where the edge of the new wet coat is so you dont get dry areas with no shine or areas getting hit twice and then runs, three of these old scrappy desk lamps packed in on me as I was trying to keep going and get around the bits, I ended up using one of the Ikea LED lamps Doubleboost gave me and it worked spot on.
After rubbing down all the primed bits there is always the odd bit that needs touched up where the primer has flatted through, I did this with rattle can primer as it dries in minutes and needs only very light flat off as its so thin. The grey areas are the rattle can, on the second photo you can see the sun ( that has not been shining for weeks) casting light and shadow right across the headstock , this is a disaster lighting situation for spraying as you have not got a clue where you are hitting , I had to wait like a vampire for the sun to go down as I could not blank off the window easy and it was getting dark soon anyway.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3007.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3008.jpg.html)
This was the final set up for painting , some bits have been assembled to lessen the area taken up spraying, I would rather stand things up like this than hang them , partly it seems easier and also its amazing how much things can sway about when getting sprayed. The top shelf on the electric box panel is fitted the wrong way around as it will let the paint hit all the areas that will be seen unlike if ifway fitted in its final position
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3009.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3009.jpg.html)
First coat of grey on
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3016.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3016.jpg.html)
This is the finished job after three coats of gloss, I have pushed it to the limit for not running but I hate dry areas and nice glossy paint is easier to wipe down too. The paint is still sort of wet here so a bit mist in the air still and I also had left the camera on the wrong setting for some of them hence the variation in colour on some photos, its the right colour of the original layer of paint anyway.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3014.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3014.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3022.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3022.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3021.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3021.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3020.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3020.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3023.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3023.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3025.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3025.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3026.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3026.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3028.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonpaint3028.jpg.html)
I am glad to report that it all dried fine apart from the odd small areas that had a fault or too that would piss you off if on your new Rolls Royce but livable with on a 1959 lathe !
I can start to put some bits back on now and start on batch two of parts that need painting..........more to come soon.
Cheers Mick.
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Mick,
That's beautiful! :thumbup:
It'll be a shame to create nasty, hot & sharp swarf with it!
:beer:
Phil.
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:bow: :bow: :bow: VERY nice Mick :bow: :bow: :bow:
How long do you reckon to leave it to harden off before re-assembly ?
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Wow, Mick,
That's very impressive. I shall be revisiting this thread when I get to the painting stage on my Gear Cover!! :bow: :clap: :bow: :clap: :bow: :clap:
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Very nice!
If you painted those long bits on top instead of masking them, you wouldn't have to bother oiling them to stop them going rusty.
Just an idea...
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Cheers Phil , Andrew and Pete, This should answer your question Andrew I had heating in the garage to keep things warm so it was dry enough to start putting some parts on again today, its dry but still a bit delicate so have to be a bit gentle as I go but so far so good, I need some red paint now to do inside the belt covers before I can really put much more on. The electric boxes are just assembled nothing is wired up yet , I have done these as much to get stuff that is lying about in its final place and make some space.
This is it so far.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1001.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1003.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonrebuild1004.jpg.html)
Hoping to get a bit more done tomorrow.
Cheers Mick.
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Mick, now I know where to send my machines for re-painting. I hope you have major unloading facilities :lol:
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Hi Andrew ............this might be the last machine I EVER paint lol........on a good note , the overspray situation is even better than I remembered , even things close to the lathe have dry dust on them not a fine misting of paint so things on the bench etc look grey and dusty but it just comes off like dust :thumbup:.
Cheers Mick
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Cracking paint job mick , :bugeye: I have just started to recon my briery drill point grinder that has been sitting at Durham for the last 8 years ,I'm sure you could do a better paint job than me .
It
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Nice spray job Mick.
Cheers David
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Some more progress today lad.
Started putting a few more bits on but first had to paint various parts red inside the webs on the bed to cabinet cupboards and inside belt guards etc. Thanks to John Doubleboost who has some nice proper old fashioned stinky oil based red paint that went on lovely with a soft brush and roller.
This is what it looks like now, I will be to cover over with a sheet and have the room again to prepare the other parts for round two of the painting.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrison001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrison001.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrison002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrison002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrison004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrison004.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrison005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrison005.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrison007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrison007.jpg.html)
More to come soon .
Cheers Mick.
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Bill I have just thought why the milled part might be there, the small thin chip guard at the front of the cross slide will hit the nut and stop travel I think when the cross slide comes back towards the handwheel, so this gap will let the cross slide reach the hand wheel end at full travel ?
Mick
Hi Mick, she's looking grand with the wolf gray paint on.
I've just been recapping on this project from the beginning and I can confirm for you that the cut away on top of the cross slide nut is indeed there for clearing the thin steel screw cover,but I guess you know this by now.
Also you show a photo of your cross slide nut with packing shims wedged into the adjustment slot whereas both my metric and imperial nuts don't have these and are adjusted by tightening the 2 screws only,I've never had any problems with them backing out of adjustment and I wonder if someone has added the shims on yours after it left the factory.....OZ.
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Hi Oz , funny you should mention this as I have been looking back through and also was looking at that nut thinking its been bodged up at some point, I have found a few of the usual rubbish attempts to fix things. My overall plan was to try to fix what I can when I am putting things back together, I have stripped the Norton gearbox today as that was notchy to slide from one cog to the next so I am going to give it all a good clean and with a diamond file de burr all the cogs that have edges burred etc, the apron will need the same sort of treatment too.
I know some parts like the top plide could do with scraped etc but will get it up and running and do bits at a time I think.
Cheers for your interest and observations Oz , I might be asking about more things as the various parts get sorted out .
Cheers Mick.
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How will you dare even using such a pristine machine? The first scratch "ouch!"
Regards, Matthew
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Hi Oz , funny you should mention this as I have been looking back through and also was looking at that nut thinking its been bodged up at some point, I have found a few of the usual rubbish attempts to fix things. My overall plan was to try to fix what I can when I am putting things back together, I have stripped the Norton gearbox today as that was notchy to slide from one cog to the next so I am going to give it all a good clean and with a diamond file de burr all the cogs that have edges burred etc, the apron will need the same sort of treatment too.
I know some parts like the top plide could do with scraped etc but will get it up and running and do bits at a time I think.
Cheers for your interest and observations Oz , I might be asking about more things as the various parts get sorted out .
Cheers Mick.
Hi Mick,
I agree with your logic,it's best to get her reassembled and make some notes of the things you feel could be improved or modified at a later stage rather than fall into the trap of trying to remedy every single niggle at initial assembly stage.
A running lathe with a few problems to sort is far more inspirational and easier to approach with enthusiasm than trying to perfect everything at the initial assembly stage and it turning into a project that becomes a chore. That is probably why we see so many unfinished projects for sale,where the builder has become fed up with remedying a seemingly endless list of problems with very little immediate reward and ultimately lost interest.
Back on the subject of spindle nose design and the dangers of threaded attachments coming undone when turning in reverse or stopping quickly from high speeds. Harrison circulated a spindle modification which provided a solution of sorts involving a shallow flat bottomed groove being machined into the spindle nose just behind the threaded portion. The chuck back plate is also modified by machining and fitting of a corresponding grub screw that registers into the groove on the spindle nose in order to prevent the chuck unscrewing accidentally.
I have a copy of the factory drawing and dimensions for this mod,but I have to say it isn't a great solution. I would much prefer to have a L00 taper spindle fitting and I have been working on some ideas to make a permanently fitted spindle adapter to convert from screw nose to L00 taper thus never having the worry of a chuck unscrewing itself under load.....OZ.
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Hi Oz, The adapter idea is interesting , I had the chance of a L00 spindle once which I think would swap but I had already got most of the threaded nose stuff by then and knowing Harrison and all the minor changes they seem to have made I was not sure if it would have fitted anyway, at least without getting too involved.
I had already sort of made observations on what needed doing and most of it is in the parts yet to be put back on , i.e , the Norton gearbox, the Apron, tailstock and top slide. just waer and tear stuff so I will do what I can when I have things in bits but expect some things will end up coming apart in some area agian to solve all the problems.
I have started on the other 'bits' of the lathe and decided to do the oily dirty parts first, everything has had a general clean and most of the old paint scraped off ages ago but not clean enough for paint. The main lumps are , The Norton Gearbox, The Apron/saddle/Topslide and the tailstock. As you can see they are all rough looking compared to the lathe now ! . I intend to strip and inspect all these bits and repair/replace anything that is found to be not right, then anything missed will have to be discovered once the lathe is up and running and then go from there, hopefully most things should get fixed before its up and running this way.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3004.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3005.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3006.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3006.jpg.html)
This is what the Norton box looked like after it was 'cleaned' , I have found the two front bronze bushes are worn where the lead screw and feed screw go into the box, I have just de burred all the cogs and generally cleaned up everything, oilways had grease in them as usual. The screw cutting charts will need a cunning plan or they are going to let the job down, there was some new ones on Ebay but the wrong charts.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3011.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3011.jpg.html)
I have also got the belt covers back on so its looking more like a lathe and less parts lying about too.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3013.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3013.jpg.html)
These photos are to show the tool box that was say three feet from the back of the lathe only had grey dust not paint overspray land on it, first shot finger ready to wipe off , second shot same bit wiped clean with finger and paint still red and shiny under the dust, this is a main bonus of this paint.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisonrebuild3003.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick
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Hi Mick, there's a whole load of Harrison mods and improvements I'd like to share with you in the future but if you follow the path your on now nothing will be wasted or lost anyway as any Harrison threaded fittings you invest in would be very easily resealable for no financial loss should you decide to copy my mods.
I've been looking at some of your wood creations and think they're real nice looking,especially like the Hare :drool: :drool: :clap:
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Hi Manxmodder,
thanks for comments on the wood stuff I seem to flit from wood back to metal lol. The mods sound interesting, do you just mean for the spindle or other general mods too, there are a few things I would like to improve/ alter over time.
I now have the Norton box in bits , it needs various bronze bushes replaced and the odd shaft maybe sleeved, the problems have happened because oilways were blocked with old grease probably for years and years so even if oiled the oil was not reaching the areas it was needed. The apron and tailstock are also stripped to bare bones and odd thing needs fixed with these too, I am gathering up bushes etc and will fix then paint, I have not took photos but been grinding all the castings to make painting an easier job.
More to come soon .
Be interesting to see some pics of your mods :thumbup:
Cheers Mick
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Mick,if you find anyone who has old stock of the Norton gearbox bushes I'd appreciate it if you would share their details with me.
Cheers,OZ.
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Hi Oz , I will do, I think I am probably going to have to make some of mine or sleeve shafts as both the bush and the shafts are worn in some places so just a new bush would not really fix the problem but I will keep you posted.
G&M tools have some L5 parts on Ebay there are some Norton box parts but not bushes listed, I contacted them about some badges and they said all they had was listed on Ebay , I dont know if they meant all L5 parts or just the badges mind.
Cheers Mick.
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I was looking at my screw chart plates earlier and also the photos of yours.
They do differ a bit but a possible solution, if you have to restore what you have, would be to apply nitromors and strip out the old paint from the undercut reliefs then refresh the raised chart plate lettering and surfaces on super fine abrasive paper,with the paper set on a flat plate with thin a smear of grease applied to the back to prevent it slipping around and to keep it perfectly flat whilst your lapping the chart faces.
When the raised parts are looking good then then spray a couple of thin coats of cellulose paint on the front faces and oven dry the paint till its nice and hard.
Finish of by going back to the abrasive paper on the flat plate until you've removed enough paint from the high spots to fully reveal the numerals and lettering,then thoroughly clean and apply a coat of clear laquer. (I've used this technique in the past to restore similar type charts and badges.)
I guess you've already considered doing something like I describe but I must emphasise the importance of keeping the abrasive paper absolutely flat on the surface plate,hence the use of grease on the backside.
I hope some of these suggestions are of help to you but either way I'll be interested to see how you resolve the problem.
Are any of your charts chrome plated,or are they all of unplated the brass type?....OZ.
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Hi Oz,if the plates were better nick what you have mentioned was going to be my plan but these are a bit battered to start with and now look worse due to them little riverts being a nightmare to bet out, I thinkI will put an ad on hoeworkshop, someone may have soe tucked away somewhere and plan B might be to some how try to replicate something similar ? I still have not really thought of how yet.
At least one had been chrome or nickle plated but it was half rubbed off down to brass, either way I would be happy with brass finish
Cheers Mick
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Mick, you could photographically etch them yourself using the same technique used for making pcbs. Get a good dense black and white photograph, print on a laser printer at the right scale to size it properly onto 'overhead projection film', spray the brass with photo resist (ebay abounds) expose to uv (sun ray lamp) through the film, wash away the exposed bits with weak potassium hydroxide solution, etch the result with ferric chloride.
Another slightly simpler way is to print onto paper, lay the paper on the brass and iron it on. The ink in laser printers is basically carbon bonded by plastic. The heat fuses the plastic and bonds it onto the brass. The plastic acts as the etch resist. Takes a bit of experimentation but it does work. You can buy special papers to make the process easier.
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Ah well,if they're a bit to knackered then Andrew is pointing you in the right direction with the photo resist or carbon paper resist and Ferric etch methods he describes(good man Andrew for pitching in there :thumbup:).
I have also used a slightly different technique to produce ferric etched clock faces for a custom show bike many years back.
What was done on that occasion was a silk screen negative was made from the the artwork master and the ink was squeegeed through the screen onto the brass blanks,and when dry they were dropped into the Ferric Chloride until satisfactorily etched then ink cleaned of with solvent.
Back then we used leteraset rub on letter and numeral transfers to create the art master,but these days I think the inkjet printer is the weapon of choice.
You could also consider asking if any members on the Harrison Lathe forum have any new/old stock L5 screw charts for sale.....OZ. Link to Harrison Lathe Forum:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/harrisonlathe/info
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Hi Mick, I just thought to post up these links to bush type replacement bearing alternatives that I have used in various applications in the past.
In many cases they provide a cheaper and superior solution than plain bronze bushes do....OZ.(other forum members may also find this info useful for their projects) see links below:
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Bearings-Wrapped+Steel+Bushes/c3_4701/index.html
http://www.igus.co.uk/iglidur
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Doodling tonight, bit bored, crap night down the pub.
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Harrison%20feed%20badge.jpg)
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John that looks the DOGS BOLLOCKS :thumbup: :clap: :drool: :drool:, looks like you have the style sussed out there.
Oz I have looked at the simplybearings site which looks good , I will check the other one out too, I will have to get all the worn stuff sized up and then see what I can find with the right OD and a smaller ID and bore to suit the shaft which is now slightly worn so smaller.
I will be getting back to it tomorrow .
Cheers Mick.
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Mick, Just a suggestion, you could just consider the inside diameter to match the turned down part of the shaft and make an ally sleeve to bring the wall thickness up to the outside diameter.
Also if memory serves me right I think maybe Igus supply bushes with a finished inside diameter but a thicker than standard wall to facilitate re machining O/D to size.
They have to be mounted on a mandrell to machine the O/D to required size.
John that is a nicely done bit of artwork and the same as the one on my L6 Harrison,which is also the worse for wear.
Would it be possible to get a copy of that from you as a scaleable file for an etching template,please?
......OZ.
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Manx,
Sorry no name.
These don't scale very well outside the program, one side of the fonts gets bigger and so does the other making the letters thicker than they should in proportion.
Let me know the OD of the circle, I guessed 35mm for this one and I'll scale it, which will scale it right, save it as a DXF and let you have a copy by PM .
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Cheers for that John,I'll measure up later and come back with the actual size.
The one on my Harrison has suffered from some brute bashing the face of it with a chuck key or similar implement,but these lathes have mostly been ex college training machines so nothing surprises me regarding the mindless damage often seen......OZ.
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Hi John, the diameter of the recess in the plunger head measures 37.55mm,so 37.5mm would be safe.
I wonder if Mick has a dimension for the plunger on his L5, I can't imagine it being different.
Having said that,we are dealing with Harrison machines here so anything is possible :Doh:
....OZ.
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Mick has 38mm for his and I now have decent photo's of the plates.
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Very good John,if 38mm is the only option available I'll work around that.
whatever size Mick needs for his L5 has priority here.
Cheers, OZ.
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Just a thought,some printers have a facility to print a design directly onto the front face of a CD.
I'm just wondering if it would be feasible to put a piece of brass into the CD print tray and print the etch resist directly onto the brass and then drop it into a ferric chloride bath....OZ.
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Yes but they do not print in the centre 30 mm
Stuart
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How about 3d printing it then casting in bronze?
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That would work well Tom if the lettering was a decent size.
Some of these letter will be about 2mm high so the detail in 3D printing will be crap.
It's not that hard to do as by some means you need the master. Long Short in the absence of anything decent it has to be drawn.
Once you have the drawing you can do the print - iron on - ferric chloride dip etc
Or just sent the file to the engraver and sod off down the pub.
Me ? No contest...........
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Yes but they do not print in the centre 30 mm
Stuart
The program i use has the facility to alter the internal diameter of the centre hole. If the program is set to a small diameter it will allow approx 45mm to the edge of the CD. It would be possible to drop the brass cd in the tray and still have enough area to print several 38mm labels equally spaced around the edges of the central hole. You could then etch and cut to size
hope this helps
BTW, thanks Mick for the help/advice on the L5. Keep up the great work. look forward to seeing it completed :wave:
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Thanks for that Stig,I was wondering if the dimension of the unprinted centre area could be altered.
Also thanks John for sending me a copy of the artwork in file format,I'll show you the resulting outcome when I decide which method of creating the resist mask I'm going to use.
Cheers,OZ.
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Had a bit of a play tonight.
Mick sent me this as a picture
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Harrison%20Tags%20007-1.jpg)
Finished up with this.
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Harrison%20screw%20chart1.jpg)
Doesn't look that good as the detail isn't great to get the whole plate in shot given these letters are all under 2mm.
But if you zoom in it shows just what it *should* come out like.
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Harrison%20screw%20chart2.jpg)
(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Harrison%20screw%20chart3.jpg)
My CNC router is very good on detail so it should work out OK, I'll get to it one night next week.
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Very good John, this will be good to see when it's done.....OZ.
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Hi Lads a bit more done so here are the latest photos.
John , the plate looks top class :bow: :bow: :bow: cant wait to see the real thing
Oz , looks like you are on a mission now too :thumbup:
Stig, glad I could help you out mate , life is easier when we all help each other when we can.....'spread the wealth' as Bob KRV3000 would say :clap:
Well I have been grinding all the castings and filling in defects with filler and getting them as good as I can before primer, this batch of stuff was all fiddly ackward bits to do and also ackward to position to paint as both sides needed doing on lots of bits etc, anyway here are the photos.
All prepared
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags014.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags014.jpg.html)
Primed with etch primer , then primer filler.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint004.jpg.html)
Grey at last !
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint008.jpg.html)
This cast alloy door has been a right pain, it had loads of old primer filler and many layers of horrible old paint on it , that would have reacted to the new paint so I have sanded it back to bare alloy cast and shot blasted around the Harrison lettering then cleaned this up with riffler files etc as I plan on painting the door and having the lettering sanded back to bare alloy.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint002.jpg.html)
With this in mind I have sanded away the primer on the lettering so it wont have an edge when I sand the grey back to alloy.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint005.jpg.html)
The Harrison headstock badge and the gear speed plate badge are getting the same sort of treatment.
As they were
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags001.jpg.html)
Blasted off
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags002.jpg.html)
Primed
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonTags003.jpg.html)
Sanded back to shiny alloy letters
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint003.jpg.html)
Painted red
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint007.jpg.html)
Sanded back to alloy on the writing
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint012.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/harrisontailstockpaint012.jpg.html)
I should have been happy at that but thought , why not laquer them. The Laquer melted the red and spoilt the job so I will try going over with red again, if it does not work it will be back to metal and start again !
At least I can start to put some more bits back on again now .
Cheers Mick.
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Beautiful, patient work there Mick.
Very, very well done!!
cheers
Bill
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Hi Mick
I'm always impressed by the attention to detail on your projects. This lathe will look better than new.
Russell
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Mick,
I dont think i personally would be able to resist mirror polishing the Harrison detail on that door knowing its alloy :drool: :D
You're either not into the "black snot" or you're showing some serious restraint :poke:
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Hi Stig, If Mick's ally castings are anything like the ones on my Harrison L6 then the quality of the ally isn't very good and contains a lot of impurities and the castings bear the characteristics of having been cast with ally that wasn't adequately fluxed before pouring.
Having tried to polish up a couple of bits of mine I found the standard of polished finish achievable was quite dull and not very satisfactory.
Further to this I also found any areas left unpainted started to develop white salty surface corrosion deposits and even on areas that were thoroughly prepared, primed and painted corrosion in the ally is starting to lift the paint.
Mick's castings may be better quality than mine,but I generally find I have to redo my ally lathe castings about every 4 years to stop them looking tatty....OZ.
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Hi Bill, Russell, Stig and Oz thanks for the comments, I think I might have been lucky with the castings as they needed a bit filing and a sanding with a block to remove slight dips and rough areas but are ok after that.
I ended up re sanding the badges and just re spraying red , then sanding back to alloy leaving a sort of fine brushed finish on the alloy and not laquering them this time, the headstock badge is attached with correct twist screw type rivets kindly donated by Bob KRV3000. The cabinet door was given the same treatment and looks ok , I was going to mask off a square around the Harrison letters and spray red then sand back to alloy again but I think the red might wrinkle the grey and the paint is not hard enough to mask onto yet anyway.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded001.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded003.jpg.html)
The other jobs I have got done dont look much but all been fiddly as the paint is not really hard for manhandling yet, I have fitted motor and brackets , the gear selectors and started with the wiring grommets etc. I have attached the inverter and also a double socket to the rear of the electrics panel, I have decided not to fit the old bulky work lamp and instead fit two Ikea flexi stalk type LED lights as Doubleboost uses, these need one socket each hence double socket, I think two should cancell out the situation of the shadow cast by one being right where you want to see. The red 3 phase type plug is so I can unplug the motor to run/ test other motors using the lath inverter and controls.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded006.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded006.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded004.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonbadgessanded005.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick.
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OOH baby you know what I like. :drool: :drool: :drool:
That is looking absolutely superb there Mick.
My L6 was hand painted with Tekaloid coach enamel in Landrover Marine Blue.
It's a few years ago now but has lasted real good on the cast iron work but I do have grief with keeping the ally parts smart due to oxides and impurities in the castings.
Next time I have to attend to the ally bits I will media blast them and then steep them in hot distilled water to leech out some of the oxides,then etch prime and undercoat.
What type of paint did you use for this restoration job? .....OZ.
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looking good mick, not too much to do now :drool:
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Hi Oz that Binns & Berry lathe of mine ( pictures at the starting pages of this thread ) was navy blue hammerite with pinktype red hammerite, needless to say I had to paint ilt lol, I did it with this same paint , PM me your Email and I will forward on the info as I have already Emailed it to Andrew (awemawson) so easeir to forward it on again to you.
Hi Bailey glad your liking the rebuild , it looks like its getting there but there is more still needs doing that it looks like as lots of the stuff left to do has various problems so all needs fixed as or before it get put back on :palm: ...........stil its moving in the right direction anyway.
Cheers Mick.
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i carnt wate till i start to bash it with me hammer
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I reckon Mick will have your thumbs clamped in the vice before you get near it....OZ.
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lol
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Well at last some more progress on the lathe.
Its been slow as every small part needs a good go over now as everything looks rough compared to the lathe now so has to be fettled before it can go back on. I have got a print for the workshop wall too. Its of a Dame Laura Knight painting dipicting a lady operating a lathe in World War 2 called Ruby Loftus screwing a breech ring , real good detail on the lathe.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox005.jpg.html)
Right back to the lathe, its been electrics, lights , suds pump , Norton gear box , saddle , apron and lots of fiddly bits and bobs. A massive thanks to Bob KRV3000 for sorting out the Norton box and apron for me , Bob made new or fixed by sleeving most of the bronze bushes in box and apron as well as various other repairs that were needed after 60 years of use, as usual a superb job and they are sopt on now, so thanks again Bob.
I had already cleaned up the castings for the apron , and gearbox in prep for painting, this is them after Bob had run his magic touch over them.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox006.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox006.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox007.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox008.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox009.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox009.jpg.html)
The Norton box was primed and then test run to check all was well before painting, all correct and working much slicker and more quiet.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox015.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox015.jpg.html)
Time for more paint, primer first over the etch primer which is seen here.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox019.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox019.jpg.html)
Then grey topcoat, I was glad to see this lot grey at last I can tell you
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox020.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox020.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox022.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox022.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox021.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox021.jpg.html)
Box back on
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox024.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox024.jpg.html)
Chuck guard and LED lamps fitted
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox003.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox014.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox014.jpg.html)
Then another big thanks to my mate Dave who managed to set the inverter up so I could use the switch gear as I wanted, the inverter works fine but is not easy to set up if you are not used to them.
The front panel is all marked up with decals and the rev counter in place and wired up, this is 12volt unit meant for cars and has a pick up sensor that works off magnets on a collar around the spindle.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox013.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox013.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox017.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox017.jpg.html)
So thats about it up to now, the coolant tank and pump are fitted too and I am now sorting through all the little things that need fettled before they go back on but the light is at the end of the tunnel now I think .
The samll things are bit such as the hand wheel and shaft where the taper pin would not come out , then drilled off center so will have to be repaired before fitting again , all time consuming stuff.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox010.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/HarrisonNortonbox010.jpg.html)
Cheers Mick
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This is a superb renovation thread Mick. Thanks for sharing your work. Very inspiring to us beginners.
Gary
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Cracking job Mick :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
John
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its geting ther mick
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Very nice Mick,good to see her coming back together.
I really do like the way your control panel setup has worked out and the other subtle improvements you've done.
"We're not worthy" :bow: "we're not worthy" :bow:
I've just finished screwcutting a new 8 tpi imperial single start cross slide screw for my L6. The standard screw is a 10 tpi 2 start giving 200 thou per revolution(far too coarse for my liking).
The 8 tpi gives 125 thou per revolution and the micrometer wheel I'll be using with it is nearly double the size of the original Harrison item,thus a lot easier to read.
I'll post up a thread and some photos on the subject when I get the new nut finished.....OZ.
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Hi Oz ,
glad you like the look of the lathe coming back together, its slow with everything needing messed about with as it goes back on. I would like to see the post on the cross slide screw, I am hoping mine is able to be fettled by adjusting the nut a bit. Have you mad a new micrometer wheel Oz as I am thinking of making some imperial ones for this lathe , its imperial screws but metric dials at the moment so I was thinking of making collars that would go over the originals to also increase the size of the dial.
Gary,
the reason I have posted this rebuild is because I have read post others have put on the net about various topics and enjoyed and learnt from them so the more people do it the better I think so glad you are enjoying it and even better if it inspires anyone to rebuild something :thumbup:
Cheers John and Bob...............hopefully one of you will be able to smash a bottle of Brown Ale off her for the re launch soon :D
Cheers Mick
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Be a bottle of Merlot for me :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
John
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Hi All , I have got a bit more done to the lathe and am on the home stretch now. I have tested the motor , gearbox etc and al seems well so far, coolant pump all fitted apart from the pipes for the coolant and the wiring all finished now.
This is the rear of the lathe, with the coolant pump back in position and the wiring all tied up.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle001.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle002.jpg.html)
I mentioned I had got another neater RPM sensor and display, this is it here I got it from this Ebay seller from Hong Kong but quality item that arrived well packed in a couple of weeks and for £10 inc postage its got to be the answer to putting a RPM display on any machine really http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261307045946?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT . Here are a few photos of the one I have but not fitted to anything yet, the only other thing you need is a 12v DC supply and a bracket for the sensor. The actual display fits into a rectangle cut out in any panel or box and snaps into place.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle003.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle004.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle004.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle006.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle006.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle005.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle005.jpg.html)
BobKRV3000 kindly had the top of the crossslide ground for me ( cheers Bob ), it was rough and battered and the graduations were all but worn off anyway so I will just set it at 90 degrees and witness mark it then set it with potractor when needed. At least it looks smart now and I could not have read the graduations anyway before.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle007.jpg.html)
The chuck had already been overhauled ages ago so nice to just pick an item up , wipe it off and fit it , I think its the first thing I have done that too !
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle008.jpg.html)
Change wheels looked tatty now so they got a go over and paint.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle011.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle011.jpg.html)
Tailstock had a few bits that needed fixing but all done and back together now, the morse taper inside the barrel is a bit rough but can be taken out to be done easy enough.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle013.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle013.jpg.html)
The saddle had new felt wipers fitted as well as a general good go over.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle012.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle012.jpg.html)
The apron was tested and the handwheel re drilled and tapped with larger thread on the wonky hole with the help of my mate Dave on his Emco FB2 mill ( cheers Dave ) My my mill is still sitting with the ram jammed in half way position so it can not be swiveled either way due to the wall at the moment ( the next job on the list )
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle015.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle015.jpg.html)
The cabinet door has had a new Yale type lock fitted, I wondered what the hell the handle/catch looked like until I saw one for sale on Ebay and noticed the lock.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle016.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle016.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle017.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonapronsaddle017.jpg.html)
I am busy with the topslide now, it was rough around the edges so its been over to John Doubleboosts today to have the sides skimmed on his mill ( I am going to owe some favours out by the time this lathe is done ) But nice when people can help each other out with jobs, so thanks John. Once the topslide is on its just testing everything and setting everything up really and hopefully not finding any problems.
Cheers Mick.
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well dun mick is that red the one i gave you carnt wate to chuck a bit of brass in it and see wat hapens with the cutings all over the place
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Hi Bob , its the stuff that John gave me , real good old paint goes on thick and flows out nice :thumbup: , I am waiting for the MD of Harrisons to phone up and say that he needs that model for the Harrison museum ......... name my price lol but if not you can come and cut some brass on it :bugeye: :lol:
Cheers Mick
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What a beautiful machine!
I just had to go back and look at the photos in the first post to remind myself what it looked like to start.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Top notch restoration there Mick, it really is a beauty. :bow: :clap:
Thanks for the info and photos of the rev counter.I'll be ordering one of those for the L6 and powering it of the 12v Lo Volt machine work light transformer fitted to my lathe.....OZ.
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Hi Lads , got some more done with the lathe, its looking like a lathe again now , just finishing bits to fit then a good check over and adjust this that and the other, test then probably re adjust things.
This is what it looks like now, still the end covers to fit , that horrible old maroon bakalite forward reverse knob for the power feed needs replaced and the screw cutting badges still to be done and the steadies , collet chuck etc to clean and paint, coolant hose.
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone001.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone001.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone002.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone002.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone003.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone003.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone007.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone007.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone008.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone008.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone009.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone009.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone010.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone010.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone012.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone012.jpg.html)
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q631/micktoon/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone013.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/micktoon/media/Madmodders%202014/Harrisonnearlydone013.jpg.html)
Not long until the first swarf hits the tray now !
Cheers Mick
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A really inspirational rebuild/rescue/restoration!!
Now it's time to enjoy it!!
All the best
Bill
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Hi All, I am a newbie who has been enthused and encouraged by your projects, especially rebuilding of the Harrison L5 lathe by micktoon. The last time I used a lathe was when the Harrison L5 was virtually new, at School! ; Now retired I would like to tinker with a lathe project to this end I recently purchased an L5A from EBay with no tools. :doh: Therefore I am looking for basically everything. I thought I’d start with the metric translation gears. Unfortunately they are becoming rarer than hens teeth. I found someone who will cut some for me in cast iron at a reasonable price, cheaper than advertised. If one of you can help; there are some measurements I would like to know about the translation gears: especially the 127T its diameter external and internal (base of the teeth) similarly Nos. 40, 60, and 63. I understand that they are 3/4" wide 7/8” bore, the teeth are 14DP x 20 pa, If one of you guys has them to hand can you measure the diameters for me please. :nrocks:
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Hi Biggles, welcome to the forum, you may not get a reply to this as if you look at the date of the post above you will see it is nearly2 years old, if no one replies to you, use this your post to start a new thread. Best of luck1
Phil
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Welcome to the forum,Biggles.
I run a Harrison L6. G&M Tool sales have a number of ex factory spares stock including back gears....OZ.
Link: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/theplaneironshop/Harrison-Lathe-Parts-/_i.html?_fsub=17071639&rt=nc&_pgn=2&_ipg=48
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Hi Biggles and All
Heres a link to a neat little program to download that will calculate gear specs :wave:
http://www.wmberg.com/tools/
HTH
John
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Hi all thanks for replying, I have been to eBay stores, G&M, Tony Griffiths etc. They have all run out of the 127. I asked Tony at ilathes for one he is advertising for £90 but came back with an order cost of 135 + Vat + delivery, as he has run out and has to order them. :loco: I then asked him about the dimensions but he has not replied. So I thought since I am likely to have these made, I’ll make them from Cast. :hammer: I asked John Ward of the same web name who has offered to make each for about £25 plus material which is about another £25. So for £50 a piece I can have them in Cast. The only thing he wanted was the diameter of the large wheel. :smart: I will try and workout the download and see if I have enough info for it to work. Thanks vintageandclassicrepairs. :thumbup:
Manxmodder, since you are running an L6, they are the same dimensions. Can you measure yours if you have a 127 diameter so I can crosscheck the answer with the program gives please? :bow: :bow:
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Hi Biggles and welcome. I'm sure you can work out the dimension of the 127T gear given the pitch and pressure angle without a problem, but nice to compare with a real one to check. The price sounds great, too. I particularly like the DC3, too! Is it a particular plane you were/are associated with?
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Hi Biggles and welcome, now you should take a look at John's (Doubleboost here and on Youtube) tread on how he made a new gear from a larger one that was cheap and plentiful of on ebay.
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Hi Biggles and All,
I used the little program to get the following dimensions
OD. 9.214in.
root diamater, 8.896in.
tooth depth, 0.1591in
For hobby use I think aluminium would be ok to make the gears from ???
Cheers
John
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vtsteam, since i am new-ish at this game i need a little holding of hands at the beginning, but now i had 2 minutes with the program i seem to have got the hang of it and measured the existing gears on my lathe, compared the actual with calculated results. They seem to stack up; using 14DP, 20P gear values. One of the reasons i was hesitant is that the lathe is in store and hard to get to at the moment due to building works. :dremel:
The C47/DC3 was one of the ones i flew with Skyways at Lydd airport back in the late 70's. :thumbup:
Hi Sid_Vicious, I have been following John's YouTube for some time now, he makes me laugh. :lol: I curl up in hysterics when he starts swearing in his northern accent and manor; having said that his work and tutorials are excellent and should be given a medal for his instruction. :beer:
Vintageandclassicrepairs; Thanks for the program, the result I got are the same. Unfortunately I do not think alloy will be a good idea for turning threads, perhaps for the intermediate gear replacing the fibre it will do. But I think it would only take a slight dig in your work and you will lose the gear teeth; besides alloy is just as expensive. :thumbup:
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[ Unfortunately I do not think alloy will be a good idea for turning threads, perhaps for the intermediate gear replacing the fibre it will do. But I think it would only take a slight dig in your work and you will lose the gear teeth; besides alloy is just as expensive. :thumbup:
If there is a fibre gear in the train then I would have thought that would protect the teeth of an alloy gear. Failing that is there a shear pin anywhere.
Russell
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Sooner to have the ally gear fail in a crash than the gear box or WHY
As Russell has said is there a shear pin in the train , better to have a weak point that a major wreck to deal with
Just my 2 cents
Stuart
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Hi All,
Thinking back :scratch: I made a 35tooth 14DP gear for the Woodhouse & Mitchell lathe I have, probably twenty years ago now?? I made the gear from a piece of good cast iron, At the time I had no way of cutting the splined centre so filed a keyway and made up a key to fit one of the splines on the driving spindle, probably about 1/4in square or so, it has never sheared and I have done some pretty heavy cutting on the lathe
At one time I was going to make up a set of metric change wheels and I was going to make them from aluminium, another of the never get roundtuit jobs :palm:
Biggles,
In 1991there was a tall ships event on here in Cork, and there were pleasure flights from the airport on a DC3, I took my at the time 6 year old son on a flight over the harbour and South Coast
due to airport traffic we got well over twice the original planned time in the air,
I loved the experience and especially the sound of those big radial engines :clap:
Cheers
John
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RussellT, Stuart, I have not noticed a shear pin: I seem to recall that the fibre gear was used to dampen the noise from the steel gears. I would think the fibre gear will take the strain if there is a crash? And why make something in alloy if it can be made correctly at the same price? Assuming the manufacturers new their stuff! :zap:
Vintageandclassicrepairs, The radial engines on the Dakota are something to behold and a little daunting if you are a passenger, especially when they start up at night and shoot flames. :bugeye:
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RussellT, Stuart, I have not noticed a shear pin: I seem to recall that the fibre gear was used to dampen the noise from the steel gears. I would think the fibre gear will take the strain if there is a crash?
Biggles,
I know nothing about your lathe, but on my lathe (ai-hembrug dr1ls) there are two fiber gears (in the tumble reverse to be specific) that will protect the rest of the gears. They are known to break, not even needing a real crash to do so. As far as I know there are no shear pins in the gear train of my lathe, and ai hembrug is known for it's thorough and sturdy design.
If there is no shear pin I would assume that your fiber gear has the same function. After all Harisson is not exactly Chinese wishful thinking, is it?
Peter
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My first ever flight was on a DC3 from Cardiff to Jersey for hols! Must have been early 60's
Still remember lookinng out at the engine cowling and seeing bits of it flapping!!
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Hi Houtenkrullen, I have been looking into the expanded drawings of the Harrison. The drive box seems to be well protected with pins, in addition the main drive is on a friction clutch plate working from the belt. Therefore i assume this will be sufficient for any problems. By the way, i also went through some of John "doubleboost" videos last night. He had one set on cutting gears for the Harrison, where he used larger gears to cut down to size. The most interesting thing to me at this stage, he mentions a formula for calculating the external diameter of a gear wheel knowing the DP and number of teeth. ; diameter = (number of teeth+2)/DP; much easier that using a program! :coffee:
Hi Will_D, yes they do scare people who have never been on one and accustomed to our modern jets. But I assure you they are much sturdier than any modern composite! :thumbup:
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Just had a look at an old picky of mine lathe long gone, theres a shear pin approx. 3/16" on both lead screw and counter shaft covered over and slides away towards tailstock when they break. Had to do mine once after putting a cut on, 1ph 240v 1 1/2hp original motor barely grumbled.
No fibre gears all steel throughout, had full set of change wheels as well impossible to acquire.
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thanks Jonny, i will lookout for them, i think the fibre gear was just their for the noise, otherwise they would have made them in different sizes to fit the translation gear changes. :thumbup:
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Hi All,
I just spotted some 14DP gears on Ebay (rusty but cheap???)
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/The-Plane-Iron-Shop?_dmd=2&_nkw=14DP
HTH
John
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That ad. is Tim & Digger at G&M Tools in Ashington (West Sussex) - dealt with them for decades !
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awemawson, vintageandclassicrepairs, i live between Epsom and Kingston. ref; the gears advertised by G&M. i have had a few for spares but they did not have the specific ones i am after. 40, 63, and 127. These are required for metric threads. I am in the process of stripping the lathe down and repairing it along the lines of mick of this thread. Therefore I will start a new thread when I have got a few days behind me and found out what needs to be done. One thing is for sure; screws and nuts are hacked and need replacing, assuming I can get them off. :nrocks:
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Maybe message Doubleboost he had the 127 division dividing plate made up.