MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: Darren on April 07, 2009, 02:45:48 PM
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Right I admit it you got to me and I've decided to build an engine.
I got taken by this one, not too complicated by the look of it. http://www.john-tom.com/MyPlans/Steam%20Engines/RotaryValveEngine.pdf
I got started tonight on the crankshaft, but I came across a problem, I need a V Block with a clamp so I can accurately mark both ends of my crank. It was going well too till I realised marking one end was simply not enough, so I got" well stuck" !!
No point showing the pic's cos I'll have to do it again.
So for the V Block I've found this one, not knowing much about these things I thought I'd better ask about it on here and see if it's the right thing or if i should be looking for something better? http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.rdgtools.co.uk%2f&WD=blocks&PN=VEE_BLOCKS.html%23a08309BIG#a08309BIG
Half way down the page at £16 or so....
Oh, and while we are at it what else may I be needing? Reamers I guess?
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Darren
Just ran a copy of the plans off:- you don't need to turn the crank from solid the easy way to make a crank shaft is to fabricate one up. John did a superb right up on building a symilar engine on HMEN he's got it on disc he will I'm sure fix you up with a copy. It shows how to fabricate a crank.
Stew
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Lathe Dog and live center?
I'd like to try to make this on the mini lathe, if I take the chuck off and use a center, the chuck backplate (part of the spindle on this lathe) can drive a dog.
Well that's what I have in mind, advice always welcome of course.
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Well that just takes all the fun out of it Stew, haven't you noticed that I'm a glutton for punishment :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Seriously, I'd better wait for John before ordering anything, Thanks for the heads up :thumbup:
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I found this http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=862.0
Is that what you were referring to Stew?
Interesting,
John, do you make your steam engine cranks in the same way?
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Yes thats the sort of thing.
I know what you mean about the chalenge of making a crank from solid, I've never tried to make one from solid but one day I just might give it a go.
Stew
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I'm here, eventually.
Darren, building your first engine is a state of mind. Some people start on say a loco, spend 10 or 15 years building it to perfection, then give up model engineering altogether. They started a major project, kept at it until the end, then just burnt themselves out. If they had taken time out, like Stew has done, to do a few more basic projects, then they would most probably still be making engines.
I am a firm believer at starting at the bottom, and work your way up. Doing it that way, your tooling costs remain smaller and you are not stretching yourself to the limits of your experience, you learn your techniques first, then start to climb the stairs.
I did a guide with step by step instructions, where a complete beginner could start off with the basic tooling plus a little turning and milling knowledge, and by gaining simple techniques along the way, end up with one of these, or one very similar, depending how far you want to go.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/custom1.jpg)
There is a member called Shred on HMEM who is doing the build at the moment.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4294.0
My composite method of building cranks starts here, on the post about building this engine.
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2872.msg12371#msg12371
So YES, you can build a fairly complex engine to begin with, just like the one you are contemplating.
Forget about reamers and things at the moment, you can get yourself tied in knots and spend a lot of money and get nowhere very fast.
If you can bore to good tolerances, you shouldn't need reamers at this early stage.
Although it is against your wish, the first thing I personally think you should do is the most basic of oscillators (wobbler). That should only take a couple of days at most, but seeing it running, the first engine you ever made, will really give you the buzz to go deeper into it. By taking on a complicated build as the first one puts you into a bad frame of mind if you hit problems, or it doesn't run.
Maybe try #25 from the planset first. Fairly easy to make and looks good when finished.
http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/25_26_Wobbler&Boiler.pdf
Then progress onto the one you really want to do.
John
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Don't worry about me running out of puff John, I've got plenty of projects to pick up and put down. I also have patience, my bike took me four years to build. Not much was left original and that includes the engine internals. There wasn't a single nut left unturned.
I'd have carried on if some bugger hadn't swiped it.
But most of all, if it ain't a challenge, I ain't interested, just the way I am.
You should see my house, now that was/is a challenge....on going story..... :)
Lot's to read on your posts, getting through them slowly.
You get everywhere...!! I'm glad to say....:ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Right, gotta go back and do some more reading of some very talented chaps engines over on Paddleducks
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Darren,
I do understand where you are coming from, and of course the choice is yours and yours alone. I can only make suggestions.
If you want the whole lot set up as a little book, I have it on disc, or if you want to download it, here are the links. It makes it much easier to read and understand. Even if you don't build it, the book is full of all sorts of hints and tips to do things if you don't have the 'correct' equipment.
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_01.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_02.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_03.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_04.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_05.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_06.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_07.pdf
http://www.rake60.com/photogallery/Piston_Valve_Engine_08.pdf
Rick (Rake 60) very kindly hosted it on his own site.
It only takes a few minutes to download if you are on broadband.
Save it from the PDF file to your computer. If printed out it makes up into a complete book of about 110 pages+
BTW, if building from Elmers plans, they are geared up for the US market, so you will most probably have to convert either to UK imperial (B.A) or metric.
John
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Thanks John,
I will download those and print them off for some bedtime reading :)
I already have a couple of reamers for the bores, nice and sharp too. I used them to ream the bronze bearings I made for the turntables.
About half inch, 31/64 if I remember rightly. One is still unused. Which just happens to be the size of the plans I linked earlier.
I'm umming and aring of course, but I will settle to a rhythm soon enough and get going.
Just an idea or two, I could use slate for the block and line it with some PB1 I have, or steel. It would be different, but would it be wrong? I dunno, can't make my mind up.
Could also use it for the base. It lathes, mills and drills ok.
I mean, it's not as if it's hard to find around here..... :) Cuts easily into blocks with diamond tooling.
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Hi Chaps
I'm thinking of making one of those little Bogstandard engines, but first I want to do some more on my loco, I'm setting myself the objective of getting it running on air, but who knows I may change my mind :proj:
Stew
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Darren,
Never having had much call for slate based engines, I can only give maybe a rough guesstimate as to the problems you would encounter.
I wouldn't ever run it on steam, compressed air only.
You could sleeve the cylinder with something like K&S brass tube epoxied into position. That would save you a boring operation.
I suspect slate has a fairly good carbon content, so should have good bearing properties, including face to face, maybe as a bore as well??
Fairly small screws are usually used in model engines, that might cause problems, I have no idea how strong a small thread would be in slate. Maybe threaded inserts or helicoils would overcome the problem.
Maybe the way to proceed is to do a few trials and see what it throws up.
I will be going thru the same sort of trials a little later on, I am going to see how I get on with perspex. I also have mountains of the stuff.
John
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Slate engine now that interesting :smart: slates very brittle more so than cast iron, but its good in compression it certainly posses an interesting set of chalenges :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
They sell figurenes down your way in the gift shops, made from powdered slate bonded in epoxy that would be another option, if you could get a big enough figure you may be able to machine a block out of it to make the cylinder.
For fixing the small screws how about drilling a parrallel hole into the slate, filling it with epoxy or something symilar and drilling and tapping into it.
Her's a question for John:- with the rotating valve engine how would you reverse it ?. change direction of air flow or can you change the valve linkage ?
Stew
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Stew,
Never having built one, but a quick look at the plan, the engine as is, can only rotate in one direction.
I suppose you could play about with the valve linkage by swinging it into a different position might enable it to run in reverse, but I suspect it would be doubtful, as the porting is cut to match the direction of engine running, and just might not run in reverse.
I have made a crankshaft rotary ported engine and that worked OK by swapping the inlet and exhaust over. I don't think it would work with this engine because of the direction specific porting.
Maybe a combination of the two could be used to get it to run.
John
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Thanks for that John I was looking at the drawings last night trying to work out :scratch: if it could be reversed, came to the conclusion it would be dificult following the as drawn plans.
Cheers
Stew
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Hi Guys, I did consider that and also came to the conclusion that it would be difficult with that design.
Saying that it looks simple, but I would imagine a new head etc could be made later if desired with reverse facilities?
I don't this slate would have a problem with steam, but threading it would be a problem. Probably bonded threaded sleeves or the bolts would have to go right through.
Bonding to it is a simple matter, I have plenty of the correct adhesive, enough to last all of us our lifetimes !!! It's an epoxy based compound that I guess could also be threaded once it has hardened. It was only a thought, I prob won't use it as it adds too many complications at this/my early stage.
:ddb:
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Hey Darren, if you do down load Bogs engine you'll find it a very entertaining read. He has a very good sense of humor in his write up. See if you can find them.
I got the biggest kick out of finding one of the humorus things Bogs put in one of the pics.
Bernd
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Very few people have found that one Bernd.
Bogs
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Well I've made a start, Four little 5mm thick SS discs with a 4.5mm hole in the middle. I'll drill or bore them out to 5mm when the Silver Steel ordered arrives.
I might even make a tiny boring bar from the Silver Steel rod......but I'll have to do some reading first.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1494.jpg)
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Very few people have found that one Bernd.
Bogs
If you only knew how I giggled like a little kid over that one. :D I even had to show the wife. She even got a chuckle out of it.
Bernd
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Darren,
How did the little lathe cope? Any better than before?
Bernd,
What is life without a bit of humour now and then. Especially when you can slip it in without being noticed.
Bogs
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Hi John, still not done much with it, these parts are very short... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
But, I have to say it feels very smooth, even the crosslide which I know you didn't do much with. I will be making more use of it as this project goes on and will report back.
It is showing me how worn my crosslide screw is on the bigger lathe. I must finish that project sometime.
As these parts are 30mm dia SS I did do most of the work on the bigger lathe. Mainly because parting was going to be a pig, and it was. I don't think the little lathe would have coped.
But I did face and true the thickness of the discs on the mini, Could have done it on the larger lathe with collets and stops, but I didn't. For this the little un coped just fine.
Oh, btw the carrage lock was real handy, that worked a treat :thumbup:
I have found a nice piece of slate to bolt it down to as well. That should help.... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
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Bogs, I bin readin your book and you linked this place
http://www.jjjtrain.com/vms/library.html
Now that will keep me out of trouble for days, :lol: I'm trying to read your build but now I'm distracted.... :coffee:
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Bogs, quick Q..
When you use metric threads in small sizes do you use coarse or fine pitches?
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Darren,
If you read the posts on here you will find I have already made it known
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=535.0
plus another one, very recently
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=944.0
You will find that 99.999% of metric threads used are the coarse variety. Metric fine are few and far between. In fact I only own one metric fine tap, 4.5mm, and that is for cutting threads in the bottom of Ronson cigarette lighters for fitting the filling valve.
Bogs
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Eh?
How do either of those links indicate what you prefer to use :scratch:
But you have answered it now. I've never found a use for metric fine, I just wondered if this may be it with such tiny & thin parts. Seems not.
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Darren,
The links were to do with your comment
Bogs, I bin readin your book and you linked this place
http://www.jjjtrain.com/vms/library.html
Now that will keep me out of trouble for days, I'm trying to read your build but now I'm distracted....
Bogs
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oops, too early for me, I don't come alive till the afternoon :lol:
Not sure why I hadn't spotted those links before, too distracted at the time I guess :ddb:
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And with that I did wake up somewhat later and moved on a little with the engine build.
I have decided to go with Johns plans so everything from now on is to those dimensions unless otherwise stated.
I won't repeat the how to's etc, just snippets here and there.
For no other reason than I simply wanted to try a bit of micro boring I decided to make a very small boring bar. I could have just drilled this part.
I picked up a good handful of different routing bits from the market recently for 20p each, all tungsten tipped. For the boring bar I had a choice of two designs.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1497.jpg)
I chose the one on the left, they were both 1/4" and I needed about 4mm or so. So off to the grinder we go..
A little while later
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1500.jpg)
Now for a holder, the shank was 1/4" and my holder was 10mm. A small alloy tube was drilled out to 6mm as I wanted a tight fit.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1502.jpg)
Tube was cut down its length with a slitting saw
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1503.jpg)
Pressed together in a vice
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1504.jpg)
Job done and ready for action
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1505.jpg)
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Now to see if it works :)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1516.jpg)
Yep, worked a treat and I did all four pieces to an exact fitting to a length of 5mm Silver Steel.
Oh yes, forgot to mention the Silver steel rods turned up this morning... :ddb:
Next I made a jig as John suggested in his write up. This worked really well. Thanks John, that really did save some headache... :scratch:
I did mark out the piece where it needed to be drilled. Then I figured out the miller could have dine this a lot easier... :doh:
I've never used the graduations on the miller before, yes I know tell me about it.... :lol:
But this job gave me a chance to work out the grads and if they were accurate. I'm pleased to say they are spot on and no doubt more accurate than my marking out :smart:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1521.jpg)
Next the 2mm hole, well I made it 3mm and countersunk both sides...just for fun... :)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1527.jpg)
Wahey, they fit :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1524.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1525.jpg)
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Now for the bit that was getting me nervous...... :bang:
The milling......
One side
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1530.jpg)
Then the other, ok I know they look the same but they arn't.... :)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1533.jpg)
And this is the result
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1536.jpg)
A little flattening back, I'll leave the final cleaning up till they ae finished
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1538.jpg)
I have to say I feel quite please with myself :D :D :D
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I have to say I feel quite please with myself
So you should be, great piece of work, love the idea of using router bits!
David H
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So my little tips work then Darren?
If you can finish that engine, you should find that small parts (engineering bits that is) hold no terror any more, and you will be able to look at a lot of other jobs, and transfer the info you learn across to them.
I made two of these engines in parallel, in just over two months, designing and making as I went along.
Can you make one in less by following the book?
Bogs
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Darren,
You look at you go, nice bit of work there :thumbup:
I really like that idea of using a router bit.
Bernd
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John that little fixture was so simple to make it's almost unbelievable how important it is..... :smart:
One of the reasons for tackling such a complicated build, (to me) is to learn. I find I do that every time I switch the machines on :ddb:
I've no idea how long it will take to finish, I'm still not sure what I've let myself in for here :lol:
I thought the crank webs looked complicated and ultra accuracy needed, that's why I did them first. If I couldn't make them then I would know I wasn't ready for such a project.
As it turns out, they were not difficult at all by following your logs.
What would I do differently next time....erm....don't use SS, it's just a pig to part, drill and tap. Lathing and milling it is great and leaves a superb finish from the off. But the rest is not much fun. :bang:
I'm not looking forward to drilling and tapping the clamp, I might no tap it at all yet. We shall see. If I have any foul-ups I will buy some brass and start again.
I was pleased with the milling this time around, that came out quite nicely..... :thumbup:
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Well done Darren Nice Job and right up :clap: :thumbup:
Stew
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Very nicely done Darren! :clap:
I`m enjoying this project. :thumbup:
David D
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Thanks both Davids, Bernd and Stew,
Just like to say the feedback is very encouraging :thumbup:
I'm enjoying this project so far, it's amaizing how much you learn just making such a small part :ddb:
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I'm in the process of gathering material for this engine as well. I will be trying to make it on my 7 x 12 lathe and drill/mill. So I will be following your thread with great interest and anticipation.
Great start by the way.
Ron
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Ron,
Your lathe and mill will be able to do all the jobs no problem.
If you are only ever going to run it as a display model on air, you can use almost any materials to make it. I designed it to be run on steam, so cast iron was used for the cylinders and stainless for the rods. You could just as easily use ali for the cylinder and valve blocks, even the bits Darren has just made out of stainless, brass for the pistons and silver steel (drill rod) for the rods. Plus normal steel fasteners. You will need to use the right materials for where pieces are silver soldered together. So just use your imagination and enjoy yourself. It is not a bible, to be followed religiously, use whatever you think will work.
It is really an exercise in making complicated looking bits in an easy to understand way, using no super expensive workshop tooling, rather than the manufacture of a working model engine. That is just a big bonus at the end.
The crankshaft is a perfect example. If you make bearing blocks to support between each crank, you could easily make a 12 cylinder in line crank, with any angle offset you require. Try doing that on a little lathe, out of the solid.
As I said, I designed and made two, and when I show them at steam rallies, people just won't believe that they could be made by a novice to machining, with most bits coming from the junk pile. So I hand out freebie CD's with the 'book' on to those that are interested (plus of course a plug for the website).
Bogs
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John, you mention using Cast Iron for the block if running on steam.
Can I ask why wouldn't brass be appropriate, or other metals for that matter :scratch:
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Hi Ron,
I would say go for it, but then I've no idea what I've got into here :lol:
Deep end comes to mind :ddb:
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Darren,
The standard materials for steam cylinders on models are cast iron, bronze and brass in that order.
They all have good wear resistance and are stable when subjected to heating.
In small engines, if you use standard steels, including silver steel, they will go rusty and jam up in no time under the hot humid atmosphere when running on steam, hence stainless should be used for shafts if possible. Model locos usually get away with it because most bits are easy to get to and can be kept well oiled.
Hot steam will cut through ali under certain conditions plus also it has large expansion rates. So that really must be avoided.
That is why I asked Ron if he was running on air.
If you are running on air, almost anything goes as long as you keep it well lubricated.
Hope that explains it OK.
John
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I'm in the process of gathering material for this engine as well. I will be trying to make it on my 7 x 12 lathe and drill/mill. So I will be following your thread with great interest and anticipation.
Great start by the way.
Ron
Hi Ron I'm shure you'll enjoy this engine build I've seen Johns engines and they do make a very nice project, and when you break it down into easy step as John has done its well within the scope of a newcommer: if you get stuck ther's plenty of chaps on her who will give good advice, but the most important thing is for you to have fun with the build.
Cheers
Stew
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Thanks John, that was well explained.
One more question, I understand than Stainless steel galls in a sliding motion. Do I take it that it's not suitable for cranskshafts in these models or can we get away with it?
Sorry, a second one...
If used for a piston rod do you put say a bronze bush in or again can we get away with it.
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Look what I found under the hedge in the garden today :) :) :)
I wonder what I could do with these :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1540.jpg)
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Darren,
I have never had any problems at all using stainless rods in any of my engines, either in a rotary or sliding motion.
I would suspect stainless running in stainless might cause a problem.
I think you might be getting confused with stainless steels ability to have a grab factor. That only happens when stainless is tightened onto another metal.
With regards to your sash weights, don't go diving in like you usually do. There is a technique to cutting that type of casting. Using say an angle grinder, grind a groove all the way around the bar. Either drop it onto concrete or tap wiv a big 'ammer, it should break around the grind line. This will allow you to mount it in the lathe and start your cutter off under the hard outside skin, say a 0.025" (0.5mm) deep. This should then cut along the good material under the skin, taking the rock hard outer casing with it. You might find that the last 3 or 4" at the end opposite the loop is full of dross and can usually be discarded. I have never worked with square ones, so you will have to work how to get under the skin on those yourself. I can normally get at least 12" of very good material out of them, about 1.25" diameter.
I know Steve bought a load and they turned out to contain nothing but dross. You win some, you lose some. Up to now, after many dozens, I haven't had a single loss.
John
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I think you might be getting confused with stainless steels ability to have a grab factor. That only happens when stainless is tightened onto another metal.
Thanks John, I have no doubts about getting the wrong end of the stick. I used to have parts made at a machine shop and they would give me all sorts of excuses not to use SS.
I'm beginning to think they just didn't like machining the stuff and I was fed a load of drivel. They always wanted me to have the parts made in brass. It was a fully fledged modern CNC shop too.
Mind you, I'm beginning to understand their reasoning, but I find it hard to believe they would have the same problems as I do..... :scratch:
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With regards to your sash weights, don't go diving in like you usually do.
OK.... :lol:
I have never worked with square ones, so you will have to work how to get under the skin on those yourself.
I'm thinking, abrasive chop saw or angle grinder, cut the length for an engine block in the manner you describe and then slice the side crust off with the bandsaw??
Maybe that might work :scratch:
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Darren,
That just might work. Just make sure you are cutting in virgin good metal and not the skin except for the two outside edges.
If you are after making it square from square, you could try milling it first, starting off from a previously cut edge, put a deep enough cut on to get it under the skin.
If you have any spare tips you want to get rid of, just try turning the skin off the surface without going deep enough. Just to see what I am on about. There is most probably 100 years of crustiness on there, but also 100 years of lovely matured cast iron underneath.
Bogs
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A little shop time this evening, not much so progress a little slow tonight.
Having now re-set my mill it was time to get back to making the little brass pillow blocks.
The source of material was to be cut from this 1 3/4 x 1/2" bar
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1564.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1566.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1567.jpg)
All the sides done now for the ends
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1570.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1571.jpg)
All done, I left them 0.1mm oversize to allow further machining and for possible vice/lathe jaw marks to be removed in the final clean up/polishing stage.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1608.jpg)
Next job was to drill the crankshaft holes. Notice I have made and adjustment to my vice stop. I found that positioning such small pieces at one end of the vice was not the best way to go about things. Mainly because there is no bottom support in this area and when clamping and pushing down on the part things could go horribly wrong.
So I added a 6mm brass screw (with the end polished) and locking knurled thumb nut. This really improved the situation.
Also notice I have marked the datum surfaces. The bottom and one side. This is because the crank hole is not central and we need to be aware of this in further operations for correct orientation.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1611.jpg)
Holes were center drilled and then drilled to 4.5mm.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1612.jpg)
And this is where I finished off for tonight. A little further on.... :)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1613.jpg)
-
I forgot to say, when suitable I like to add a little
"what have I learnt from this episode"..... :)
Cutting four little blocks and then trying to machine them all to the same size was a little difficult. Not impossible as you can see. But I believe this type of task would be easier if one long strip was machined up first and then cut into the four lengths required. Followed by machining to length.
It seems that when four individual blocks are put in the vice at the same time they move by different amounts when the vice is tightened. So they do not end up the same size after machining.
It's slight, but it did exist. I got there in the end with a little dose of patience.
:ddb:
-
John, Can I ask you for a little bit of advice please..
I need to make an order for some small screws, typically in the tiny range of 2.5mm. I can look through your logs and estimate what's required but for small engineering I'd also like to order for the future at the same time.
Could you give a general list of what you find handy to keep on the shelf? Only the small stuff, say up to 4mm.
I understand you order from here http://microscrews.easywebstore.co.uk/default.aspx
-
And so we proceed with the pillow blocks a little more this evening .... :ddb:
Oil hole marked up, center drilled, drilled out to 2.5mm and finally tapped 3mm.
I had to hold two together because my make shift parallel "a large HSS lathe tool" was too wide for just the one block.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1614.jpg)
All four done. Here I'm lapping them all true to size on all sides to each other. I have mounted all four onto a 4.9mm drill bit to line up the crankshaft bores. (at this stage they are drilled to 4.9mm as I will ream them to size later) By lapping not only will they all be the same size externally they will also have their bores in a perfect line when mounted.
Note the use of the now famous lathe bit clamped to the bench. This is to ensure that none of the pieces tries to turn. Give em half the chance and they will...!! It also ensures a square angle is kept between sides.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1617.jpg)
All done
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1620.jpg)
I'd previously pop marked the bases to help with orientation during each machining process. Just checking they are still there.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1626.jpg)
Drilling the base mounting holes
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1627.jpg)
All done, I don't currently have a 2.5mm tap, one is on its way so tapping can wait till later.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1631.jpg)
Now onto some profiling purely for aesthetics. I'm using a semi ball nosed carbide cutter. Tough stuff this brass ya know...!!
OK, it was the only cutter I have with any sort of small radius.....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1633.jpg)
And the other side
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1635.jpg)
Off to the mini lathe to form the boss's, I chose 1mm for looks.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1638.jpg)
All done on both sides,
My missus called them "little cameras"
All they need now is the bases tapped and a general de-bur followed by a final clean up.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1639.jpg)
-
Looking good Darren :thumbup:
Stew
-
Darren,
Because of being tight, I make the most out of what I buy. So if I need 2mm screws, and 2mm studs, I will buy long screws, and cut them down to make both items. It can't always be done, but a lot of times, you will find that short screws are the most expensive. Without actually looking at the plans, I think most screw lengths are about 6mm. It does pay to buy in the bulk sizes, say 50 or 100 instead of 10's. They are a thing I have in stock all the time, so really, I can't give you a blow by blow for this engine.
What I tell people who are building this engine is to make the holding bolt holes a little larger, so instead of 2.5mm, make it 2.6mm. Doing it that way gives a bit of 'fiddle' factor to get it running a lot smoother. In fact, when you do the crosshead bars, you will definitely need to fiddle with those to get the crossheads to run up and down smoothly.
John
-
Hi John, sorry I wasn't asking about this engine specifically as I can get most of the info I need from your pages.
I was thinking in more general terms for typical model engineering as a whole, inc engines.
I should have been a bit clearer.
I'm thinking m2.5, m3, m4 would cover most things in a couple of lengths. Would that be correct, it seems from your reply it is.
(5,6,8 I tend to have a good stock of anyway as it suits my music side. Along with a few bsfs and ba's.)
The reason I ask is because not the sort to go ordering 5's and 10's. I tend to order by the standard box be it 100/200 or so and be done with it for a while, if not for ever :lol:
It was just a general question :thumbup:
-
Darren,
Thanks for the explanation.
For SS screws, I would stick with 2mm, 2.5mm & 3mm. Like I said, check the prices between the longest and shortest. It takes no time to cut a long one down, but if you only have a short one, it is difficult to make a long one. Don't forget to get washers and nuts, you don't use a lot, but I would get 100 of each size, just for stock.
For 4mm and up, I would just go for standard off the shelf stuff.
Just a little pointer on how I make my engines. During making, everything is held together with any old screw that will fit. Only on final build do I use the SS cap screws. Because they are so soft, it is easy to strip out the heads with continually tightening and untightening, especially on the smaller sizes, and they are too expensive to be thrown away.
John
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Thanks John that clarifies things, I'll start making an order up :thumbup:
Re soft, I'd never considered SS bolts to be soft before. I recently bought some 3mm countersunk for the insert toolholders I made recently and noticed that the heads don't seem to last more than a couple of tightens. I assumed these were cheap bolts and not very well made, but reading your reply above is interesting.
I think the reason I asked in the first place was because I was surprised to see metric threads on models. I always thought the God's insisted that BA or ME etc was compulsory or you'd be poked with a hot stick and banished from society.....or at least ridiculed by your peers.
Thankfully that's not the case :clap:
BTW, Googling to see if ME actually existed and wasn't a figment of my imagination I found this page....could be handy for some of us. You might want to turn your sound off first though :ddb:
http://www.aonx97.dsl.pipex.com/WS-page/table-page/tables.htm#ME
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Hi Darren
This is where I get my ME taps and Die's from http://www.tracytools.com/tapsanddiesmodeleng.htm ther's still quite few places you can get them, for my loco build ME and BA is used excusivly but I've found that some of the smaller sizes they call up such as 8BA allan grub screws are as rare as rocking horse droppings, so in places I,ve had to revert to metric.
Ther's nowt wrong in changing thread type after all your building the model for your pleasure no one elses, you just have to be carfull that your not compromising something else with the change ie thread getting too close to the edge etc etc.
Just have fun and use what you have at hand
Stew
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Darren,
Yes SS is a lot softer than high tensile, and I only use SS normally for either bling factor or in an oily wet evironment. They are not really strong enough for general purpose work unless you can get hold of the very expensive ones (our normal ones are A2 grade).
BA is trying to die out slowly, but model engineers won't let it. It is preferred because of the complete range of sizes you can get in it. I think the range goes from 0 to 24 BA, but only up to 18 BA is generally available. So really it is an ideal range for true scale model engineers.
ME threads are the standard for our steam connections and other fine thread applications in larger sizes, so where BA finishes, ME carries on with a full range of 32 and 40 TPI threads (up to a standard of 1/2" diameter), but I have noticed some even larger sizes are becoming available.
That is a very good link Darren, you should pop that under the resources heading to stop it getting lost.
John
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No, no, no........Stew I don't want any ME taps and dies :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what a 126/347th is I don't want another system :ddb: :ddb:
Metric will do me fine, it's so simple.... :thumbup:
-
Metric will do me fine, it's so simple.... :thumbup:
Thats what I like to here:- keep it simple : Metrics a great system :thumbup:
Stew
-
Metric will do me fine, it's so simple.... :thumbup:
Thats what I like to here:- keep it simple : Metrics a great system :thumbup:
Stew
Yep! Fully agree...... :thumbup:
So, why am I awaiting delivery of 1/8" Whit taps & die? :doh:
David D
-
Wouldn't M3 have done David :scratch:
I break taps to often to be buying overpriced ones :lol:
But I can see for pipe fittings I might be "forced" to use ME, but it will be sparingly as poss.... :thumbup:
-
Wouldn't M3 have done David :scratch:
I break taps to often to be buying overpriced ones :lol:
But I can see for pipe fittings I might be "forced" to use ME, but it will be sparingly as poss.... :thumbup:
I`m threading 1/8" rod....... :wave:
David.
-
I break taps to often to be buying overpriced ones :lol:
I very rarely break a tap :- touch wood etc etc, but I think thats down to a baptism of fire I experienced when I was an apprentice. Each group of first year apprentices had a project to complete once they finished there tool kit, for our year it was a model mill engine I had the job of making the governer, when i came to tap the frame to take the governer I broke the tap and there was no way we could get the broken tap out, I took a lot of stick from the supervisors and the other apprentices. The model is still on display in the board room along with all the other projects, I alway sneek a look to see if the tap faries have got that tap out, I still feal embarised about it:- I think thats why I'm so carfull when tapping. Sorry about going so off topic :offtopic:
Stew
-
Brum Brum, Bruuummmmm........
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1646.jpg)
Getting excited now, I can see and hear it, cept it doesn't really go Brum Brum does it :ddb:
-
For steam engines Darren, it is Chuff Chuff Toot, with the 'oo' extended to give 'toooooooooot'
Coming along well now.
Bogs
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Thanks John that's them words I was looking for..... :thumbup:
TBH I'm really enjoying building this so far. It has forced me to re-evaluate the way I do things. I've had to set up the mill properly, "use" the mill dial indicators, and generally think about accuracy and tolerances.
Exactly why I chose to build one in the first place. :thumbup:
After fitting the vertical DRO and stopped playing with less than half built engines I managed to get a little marking out done along with some plate cutting.
3mm aluminium from and old lab instrument casing. Yet another presy from a kind gentleman up north.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1641.jpg)
Machining the widths equal
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1655.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1656.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1658.jpg)
Well that’s about it tonight, surprising how long the marking out takes.
I wonder what all the lines are for :scratch:
Rhetorical...... :thumbup:
-
Brum Brum, Bruuummmmm........
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I like that a lot :)
Looking very good Darren....I'm looking forward to the day it goes Chuff! :headbang: Definitely not as much as you though! :ddb:
Marking out.... I've lost whole evenings before now!! :scratch:
Ralph.
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Lookin' real good there Darren.
Bernd
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Nice one Darren :thumbup:
Time spent marking out carfully is time well spent:- stops you straying onto the path to the dark side young Skywalker :med: :- measure twice cut once.
Stew
-
Steadily taking shape nicely....... :thumbup:
David D
-
I'm looking forward to the day it goes Chuff! :headbang: Definitely not as much as you though! :ddb:
You wanna see me go "Chuff" :scratch:
I'm not sure if that's very nice or not........... :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Thanks Stew and David, it's coming slowly.....soon it will look like something.
Slightly hampered by all the machine setting up, but that's a good thing :thumbup:
Certainly will help on future projects.... :ddb:
-
You wanna see me go "Chuff" :scratch:
Well it's got to be better than going "Puff"! hasn't it ??
No one likes things going up in smoke!...... Why, what else did you think I meant? :lol:
Ralph.
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No one likes things going up in smoke!...... Why, what else did you think I meant? :lol:
Ralph.
I've no idea :lol:
-
Darren,
I have noticed how well you are settling down to 'precision' engineering.
There is one major problem with it.
When I want to do a bit of rough stuff, my mind wants to stay in precision mode, and it is actually a real effort just to hack a bit off here and there, I start looking round for marking blue, a vernier and a square.
Eventually as you get more into it, you will want more and more accuracy, so you start to upgrade your machines with DRO's etc. But you should still carry on marking up as normal. That is your failsafe double check when using the DRO. If they both match up, the job should be spot on.
If your marking out is done well, and you machine to 'split the line', you should be within the generally acceptable tolerance of 0.002" (0.05mm).
John
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One of the tasks in hand filled me with trepidation,
2.5mm tapping...how on earth was I going to achieve this without breaking taps, even worse ruining parts that had taken several hours to make..
The answer as usual came from one of our regular members.... :ddb:
Whilst visiting John (Bogs) I spotted a tapping stand, the seed was sewn.....!
I don't have a tapping stand, but I do have this, had it for years and never even switched it on, let alone used it. Piece of rubbish I thought.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1676.jpg)
Today I dug it out and had a real good look at it, thinking I could strip it down and make a tapping stand from it. It was rusty, very rusty but non-the-less I had to admit to myself that it wasn't rubbish at all. In fact it looked to be very well made with some really nice quality castings.
Ho hum, another machine to clean up and test...... :dremel:
I'm sorry now that I didn't take some before pictures, I didn't really think this was going to go anywhere..... :doh:
Here is the base and main pillar after a bit of a clean up
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1666.jpg)
The table
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1675.jpg)
The downfeed handle.
Notice the rusty belt tensioner behind, it was all like this but cleaned up quite easily. (note, the shaft, bearings and all important parts where well greased and in excellent condition, not rusty)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1673.jpg)
I decided that for tapping I didn't want the return/lift spring in opperation, so I tried to slacken it. then it broke... :doh:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1667.jpg)
I tried bending the remaining end into a new loop but it just snapped. Now I was stuck, what to do?
I heated the very end of the spring to bright cherry red with a blowlamp, it only took a couple of seconds. After this it bent easily into the shape I wanted without snapping :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1669.jpg)
It fits here held by a single grub screw, this is important later...
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1670.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1674.jpg)
All back together I decided to try it as a drilling machine. Fitted a 1mm drill bit switched on and...........
It didn't wobble.....I was expecting it to.... :scratch: In fact it looked superbly true....
So I tried drilling a chunk of brass and it drilled perfectly with no fuss.....
Oh hum, it's a good un I thought. Perfect for small drill bits and small parts. Speeds turned ot to be 2525, 1485 and 830 rpm, again good for small drill bits.
But I wanted a tapping stand..... :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
So, belt off, tension spring off (remember just one allen grub screw) and have a go at tapping....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1678.jpg)
Finger tip power only as Bogs suggested, easy, no probs there as this is only a 2.5mm tap.
It tapped beautifully, smooth as anything.....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1679.jpg)
What's more I managed eight holes without breaking a single tap
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1692.jpg)
I'm stunned, I was expecting to break a tap...... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Now I realise why people use tapping stands. The feel you get is incredible, it's hard to describe, but I'd imagine you'd have a job to break a tap with a set-up like this.
I used to use the miller to keep taps square, but you just don't get the feel.......SNAP !!!
Well, now I have a nice fine small drilling machine and a tapping stand. Bonus is it only takes seconds to convert between the two. Take me longer to find the right sized allen key !!
-
Good one Darren :clap: My next job is going to be a tapping stand next before i start back on my Loco :thumbup:
Stew
-
I have noticed how well you are settling down to 'precision' engineering.
Thanks for noticing John, I am trying....very, some would say.....!!
-
Very nice rescue Darren.
Now you have learned about 'feel'.
By using my tapping stand, I tapped about 30 10BA threads last week in a job (1.4mm tapping drill), and not one of them felt as if it was going to break.
Below about 5mm you really do need that 'feel'. With larger sizes you can usually get away with it.
They are available for reasonable prices in the market place, but I have heard that sometimes you can get the odd one made by a cross eyed Chinaman with no arms.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Tap-Wrenches
Bogs
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Very good Darren.
Another trick I've learned is that you hold on the round part of the tap not on the little square part at the top. If the drill is small I just hand tighten the tap in the chuck. If it gets stuck it will spin in the chuck.
Bernd
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after a trip to Bogs Towwers and saw what Mr Bogs uses ,I have Just bought one of the ARC tapping stands and it's ok . the problem was I thought it was going to be a bit bigger that it is, but that is not a problem as it will do everything I will want it to do, I was hopping to use the base to set out on but its a bit small.
Chronos do one as well if you are in no rush to tap holes this year.
Peter
-
Good stuff Darren,
the way I do it is usually in the milling machine, I still use a tap wrench but gripped on the round section of the tap, further down nearer the cutting edges. I then lightly grip the upper part in the chuck jaws so that the tap can still rotate and slide up and down in the jaws, so the chuck is just being used to align the tap but still let it move and allow use of the tap wrench to get the feel. Seems to work for me but it would be a much slicker operation with a proper tapping stand!
Nick
-
Thanks Guys,
Nick what I found with using the mill is that the collet chuck, spindle, pulley and other parts are quite big and heavy. The rotating mass takes away most of the "feel" with such a small tap.
I tried just nipping the chuck (collet in my case) by hand so the tap could slip if need be. Trouble was it was difficult to determine if the tap was slipping because the collet wasn't tight enough or if the tap was getting stuck in the part.
The balance was quite hard to overcome. With a much smaller set up, very small pillar drill in my case, a lot of mass has now gone making it much easier to feel what is going on.
I also held the part with my left hand whilst using the right hand to turn the chuck. By not holding the part in a vice any stickiness gave you feedback and the part had a little give in my fingers. This was the time to reverse the tap before continuing.
You could say a very sensitive setup all round. I'm not saying any other way is wrong, just what worked for me. If you can do it another way, and it works, then that is also the right way... :thumbup:
-
Nice job Darren. :headbang:
Starting to get tool envy here! Rock on :headbang:
Eric
-
Sounds like a good setup Darren, what I meant was, I still use the tap wrench to turn the tap, not the chuck. I leave the chuck stationary, purely there as a guide. Your method is still superior though, think I have an old chinese drill somewhere that could be utilised, however, the quality of the castings / spindle will not be as good as yours either. Nice job.
-
Ah, I see... :thumbup:
Thanks for the clarification Nick, I can see how that would work for you.... :clap:
Why not dig that old pillar drill out and give it a go. You never know it might just give you a little more feedback...
-
Think I might do, would be good to have a dedicated tool for the job too as not everything is done in the milling machine. Steam engine is looking great by the way, some nice aesthetic detailing, I should definitely learn from some of your methods here ... great write up, keep it going. :clap:
-
Thanks Nick,
Don't worry, this thread is set to continue, I've been a little distracted by another project..... :thumbup:
-
I drilled some holes in a little plate tonight.....
So what I hear you say, well it took me ages that's what.........., all night in fact.
Jeeze the concentration, nearly did me in... :lol:
I marked it off the other day, but I used the mill to position all the holes. The mill says my marking wasn't that accurate, but they did show me a couple of wrongs turns on the mill before I flunked it :thumbup:
Only one more to do :bugeye:
I need to make two 18mm holes in this plate and I'm not sure how to go about it.
I'm guessing drill first to say 14mm, biggest drill I have under 18mm and then use the tool in the picture. I don't have a boring head for the mill, but this is like a miniature version of one.
It's for the lathe turret.
Any tips chaps?
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1848.jpg)
-
Yes
Have a practice first in a bit of scrap you don't want to drill all those holes again in a new bit of plate, perhaps you should have done the 18mm hole first then if it went wrong your not scrapping off too mush time. :bang:
When you get the right size in the scrap mark the tool position in some way so you can get back to it when you do it for real.
That tool look like its got two way adjustment you only need one so lock one up.
Is the tool steel square or round?.
and keep your fingers crossed :lol:
Have fun
Stew
-
Darren
Did I give you any small gold plated boring bars, if so they would be great to do this job just make an holder for one.
Stew
-
Darren,
Have you a set of cone drills, they are perfect for jobs such as this, and I have found they cut perfectly on size. I use mine all the time on thinnish sheet requiring big holes.
The only probem is that sometimes the size you are after isn't in the range. I wish they would bring them out in both odds and evens sizes.
John
-
Darren
Did I give you any small gold plated boring bars, if so they would be great to do this job just make an holder for one.
Stew
Gold :bugeye: Nope, nobody's ever been kind enough to give me any gold :lol:
Boring bar...umm... :thumbup:
Tool steel is 1/2 round, .....
-
Darren,
Have you a set of cone drills,
John
Sadly no, not yet, I knew you would have a simple answer.... :clap:
-
Darren
Did I give you any small gold plated boring bars, if so they would be great to do this job just make an holder for one.
Stew
Gold :bugeye: Nope, nobody's ever been kind enough to give me any gold :lol:
Boring bar...umm... :thumbup:
Tool steel is 1/2 round, .....
Ok next time your at Johns then I'll fix you up with some
Stew
-
Darren..... If you haven't already then hold fire..... I'll be there by 13:00 and I'll have something special for you :thumbup:
May just help you out?
Got to go now.... I've got a bit of sorting to do and a back seat to load up :ddb:
Ralph.
-
Darren,
I think Stew means Titanium coated rather than gold.
DO WAIT FOR RALPH, I think he can sort your problem of the big holes very easily.
Bogs
-
Thanks Guys I will wait for Ralph :thumbup:
I was going to put this part to one side for now until I had...
a, practiced on a scrap
b, ordered a step drill or two
Be interesting to see what Ralph has in mind :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
-
Ha, found a way to do it and it leaves the neatest and most precise hole you have ever seen.... :ddb:
Well, than I have ever seen maybe....
I used the tool I pictured, stuck a 1/2" two flute milling cutter in it and bored a hole. Then advance the boring tool and made the hole bigger, only this time the cutter only used one cutting edge.
Worked a treat..
-
Well that was thinking out of the box, well done pleased it worked
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
-
Ralph came over today and we had some fun playing about with wiggly things making his garage door motors work, Oh and we talked a little bit too :lol:
Nice to meet the ball turner in person :wave: It was good to have some company in the same frame of mind for a change, machining mind that is.... :ddb:
Ralph left some stepped cutters behind, so after he had left I gave them a go. Pleased to say they also cut holes very neatly. I'd seen them in Aldi's but thought they were a gimmick, not so it seems. Every bit as good as the milling cutter trick I tried earlier and a bit simpler to operate as well :dremel:
They do get a touch long at the bigger diameters though, have to bear that in mind when using a vice esp mine as it's shallow....
Thank you Ralph and good to meet you at last, welcome back anytime :thumbup:
-
Glad to have made it there and back Darren.... :thumbup:
A fun day all round, sorted out some electric string and wiggly amps stuff (TM Boggie) and it's all going to plan to get my mill under power...... Just remains for me to get the mechanics done! :) Yep I know... :offtopic:
Now, back to the engine....
The new design boring tool certainly does leave a perfect hole behind, more than adiquate for the job :dremel: :clap:
And the step drills as said will probably be too long for the job.... But you'll definitly find a use for them :headbang:
The other parts I have seen first hand for this little marvel are very nicely finished. It'll be fun to see the rest take shape :)
I tried to write this last night, but Hypnos got the better of me and that was that! So I finished writing it this morning!
Thank you for your hospitality and help Darren. It'll all help me achieve my dreams of power! :borg: :lol:
Visiting is fun :D
Ralph.
-
It was good to have you round Ralph,
You're nowt like wot Bogs said :lol: :lol: :lol:
If I can help any more just ask.... :thumbup:
Back on this engine build, not a lot of progress I'm afraid, apart from working on my garage, started slating the roof :ddb:, which is very tiring I have to say.
But these plates are taking a lot of effort for what they are, for me anyway... :smart:
For the top plate 18mm holes I did it like this, after some practicing on some scrap first of course... :dremel:
All holes where center drilled and 2mm or 3mm bored with an ordinary drill bit, then I used a stepped drill to the depth my vice would allow.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1851.jpg)
This took enough out of the center to use an off centered two flute milling slot cutter. You cant just plunge in with the cutter offset as it objects quite aggressively.
The offset was pre-calculated on a piece of scrap beforehand.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1854.jpg)
In case you missed it this was the holder used, similar to a boring head which I assume would also work just as well.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1848.jpg)
And the result, a pair of nice neat and perfectly sized holes :)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1855.jpg)
-
You're nowt like wot Bogs said :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll bet!! ::)
Anyhow... Glad to see this all worked :thumbup:
Looks like we'll be seeing a lively little engine in no time?
Tiling ehh..... Now that's fun :hammer:
:)
Ralph.
-
Way to go Darren :clap:
Like the use of a milling cutter as a boring bar, very inovative :headbang:
I take it the second undrilled plate is for the base will you spot off the drilled plate for this so they are a matching pair.
Cheers
Stew
-
It`s all looking good Darren! :clap:
David D
-
I made an order late yesterday afternoon for some 2.5 & 3mm screws, nut, & washers from Precision Technology Supplies Ltd
They turned up in the post this morning, bloomin good service I'd say :thumbup:
http://www.stainlesssteelmicroscrews.co.uk/
-
That is my major bulk supplier as well Darren, and as you say, a very good service.
This is who I use for smaller quantities of those special little things.
http://www.emkaysupplies.co.uk/
John
-
Thanks John, that's another in the LBB... :thumbup:
Stew, apart from the four support pillars there is nothing much else to line up small hole wise. I did spot the pillar holes though :thumbup:
-
The saga continues with spotting the four holes mentioned above later realising there was no real need as the miller was found to be more than accurate enough to get them bang on by itself.
What impressed me was the way I could tram between all the holes, and it was bang on every time. Even when going back to the first hole.
(and that involves quite a bit of tuning both wheels backwards and forwards for both center drilling and final hole drilling)
For any newcomers to milling, or lathing for that matter, always remember to turn the hand wheels the same way for every time you line them up. I always turn clockwise, so that means that if the movement demands a counter clockwise rotation I over turn by about a 1/4 turn and then come back to the marks I need in a clockwise fashion. This takes out any free play error between the lead screws and nuts.
Hope that make sense, sounds long winded :scratch:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1857.jpg)
Now comes the time to mount the pillow blocks to the base plate with some 2.5mm screws. My screws where 16mm long and I needed 8mm. So time to shorten a few for the job.
I decided to make a holder so that I could accurately reduce the size of each one.
A piece of brass bar.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1858.jpg)
Drilled 2.1mm and threaded 2.5mm. (Threaded under lathe power John H :thumbup:)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1859.jpg)
A piece was parted off and machined down to an exact 8mm. First time I used the lathe dials, bloomin accurate they are too, measured stub with digial calipers, read 10.1mm I dialed in 2mm and the result was 8.1mm. Dialed another 0.1mm and the end result was 8mm bang on !! :clap: I must use the dials more often.
Or get out more :lol:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1864.jpg)
Then off to the miller to cut a slot so when clamped in the lathe the fixture would tighten on the screw threads to prevent unscrewing when machining. Off center but no matter for this job..... :poke:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1868.jpg)
Snipped off the excess with a pair of side cutters. The scraps will be saved as you never know I may need some 2.5mm studs at some point.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1871.jpg)
Clamped up and lathed down to size
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1873.jpg)
Lovely
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1874.jpg)
Fixed one crank pillow block to the base plate, all holes lined up real nice. No forcing going on here :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1876.jpg)
Well that's it for tonight, I will make some more short bolts tomorrow..... :)
-
Looking very good Darren, and I am glad you are picking up tips like saving the cut off ends to use at a later date. You will need bits like those when you come to assemble the piston spools to the eccentric joints. Two jobs from one screw.
I see you are also now getting familiarised to the way your machinery is working. I always reckon it takes about six months of use to find all the little quirks of a machine, where you feel confident enough to put on a cut and trust the machine settings to give you the correct result.
Now you are starting to assemble multi parts, don't forget to some way make a tiny mark so they always go back into the same position and orientation. I use a series of very small pop marks (flatted down level after punching), and if done correctly, in a position where they are not seen on the finished assembled part. But sometimes you can't always mark them up so they won't be seen, in which case make the marks as small as possible.
Well done :clap:
John
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Going Great Darren :clap:
You're starting to use the full range of kit and methods :thumbup:
Stew
-
Looking good there Darren :thumbup:
I like the bolt shortening rig :dremel:
Just two questions.....
1/ What have you used to cover the metal for layout? I know I'm colour blind to a stage but it looks black? Should have asked you last week...... But other stuff got talked about instead :)
2/ What part are you making out of that quid? Best make sure it's not a fake first.... You don't want inferior metals going into your build :thumbup:
:lol:
Ralph.
-
What do you mean Ralph?
What part are you making out of that quid? Best make sure it's not a fake first.... You don't want inferior metals going into your build
Fake would most probably be better, 'cos a real one is worth naff all. At least a fake might be brass.
Bogs
-
1/ What have you used to cover the metal for layout? I know I'm colour blind to a stage but it looks black?
Ralph.
It's some sort of industrial coating, I think it's anodising but not certain as it seems to be too black, :scratch:
-
Ralph, it was paint, I cleaned it up and there was grey primer underneath. Very hard paint though :bang:
I shortened the other six required bolts and fitted all the pillow blocks to the base. Now was the time to ream the crankshaft holes to 5mm with them all in line. I'd previously drilled to 4.9mm so the reamer only had to kiss the rest off.
I wanted to ream them in situ but the reamer wasn't long enough to get them all in one go. So this is how I did it.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1877.jpg)
Then I removed one block and passed the reamer through
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1878.jpg)
Refitted the removed block and passed the reamer through again for a final pass
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1882.jpg)
Now for the real test, fitting a 5mm Silver Steel rod right through
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1884.jpg)
Nice smooth fitting.. :thumbup: I stuck a battery drill on the rod and gave it a spin for a few min to bed things down a little. Worked a treat.
Next job was to machine out all the crank web clearance holes from the bed plate. All marked up ready to go.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1887.jpg)
I got halfway through and it stopped raining, so I popped out and stuck some more slates on my garage roof for a couple of hrs..... :ddb:
It got dark so I stopped and came back to finish the job on the plate. Note the scale marks on the vice, you can forget all too easily where you should be machining to :thumbup:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1889.jpg)
I cleaned the paint and some marks off just to tidy up a little. This is by no means the finish I'm after..... :dremel:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1899.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1905.jpg)
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Darren,
Looking very good.
(Ow look another smiley) :nrocks: This ones for you Darren. Carry on.
Bernd
-
Well that paint makes everything very easy to see :thumbup:
Very nice work me thinks tonight cheif.... I like the milling on the plate, looks very neat :dremel:
Nice trick with the reamer too, Where there's a will......
I'm quite enjoying watching the build :)
I'm going to have to get off my ass and get something made meself I suppose? I'm feeling all left out :(
Ralph.
-
Looking good Darren. Thats gonna be a nice one when you finish!
...
I'm going to have to get off my ass and get something made meself I suppose? I'm feeling all left out :(
...
Me too Ralph, me too.
Eric
-
Looking very professional Darren! :clap:
Great minds?
Yesterday I was line drilling the sloppy main bearing holes of the Mamod triple, to re bush to 3/16".
The drill wasn`t long enough for all 4 holes...... ::)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/p4290018.jpg)
So, I drilled a hole through a nut & bolt, and opened the final hole by hand......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/p4290016.jpg)
David D
-
I like the use of the bolt David :thumbup:
Nicely done there..... :dremel:
-
Darren, looking great, all that attention to detail is definitely paying off.
Nick
-
Thanks guys, I'm just taking my time and being careful, thankfully no real slip ups yet, :)
Look what I found in a skip today, that's solid alloy at each end and a chrome tube in between, it's quite heavy too....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Metal/IMG_1914.jpg)
-
Wow Darren.... You got that roof on quick!!!
What you gonna do with that then?
Got you some simple brass bits today.....(wasn't a lot there!!) We'll sort out what you'd like later :thumbup:
Ralph.
-
May be a grinder stand in Darren'd future :scratch:
-
Cheers Ralph :thumbup:
No idea what I may do with the stand thing, what ever it was? I just saw the alloy and grabbed it. If I hadn't sorted my tapping stand/drill a little morphogenesis would be going on :)
-
Decided to do a bit more to the crank webs tonight..
First thing was to drill and tap the holes for the clamping screws. I used a center and the mill to find the center between the two rods. The center finder is 5mm and the mill showed me a 1/2mm gap. Exactly as it should be :) So let the center finder kiss one rod and back away 1/4mm. Perfect.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1916.jpg)
Using the stop each piece was center drilled, note the use of a Stanley knife blade to lift the 4mm rod.
(the rods are 4 & 5mm dia, so from the center line the 4mm rod is 1/2mm shorter than the 5mm, the blade is exactly 1/2mm)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1919.jpg)
Drilling the 2.1mm hole right through. Note the liberal use of WD40, I find Stainless a bear to drill as it work hardens in a flash, grabs the drill bit and snaps it off. Or it just rounds the end of the drill bit.
So what I did here was use cobalt drill bits, plenty of fluid and peck drill leaving plenty of time to let things cool. It worked a treat.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1921.jpg)
Then I drilled 2.5mm to half the depth for thread clearance. Finally the remaining half of the hole was tapped 2.5mm.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1924.jpg)
Not a very clear picture, the parts where marked with a sharpie that Ralph left behind the other day :) and two center lines scribed with digital calipers from both sides. This leave two marks with a tiny gap in between. This shows the true center and any error clearly.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1926.jpg)
My slitting saw didn't like SS :( So I attacked it with a junior hacksaw..... :dremel:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1928.jpg)
A bit more cleaning up and they are done
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1929.jpg)
Unless you are really sad like me, forget SS here, you might find brass to be much easier to work with :thumbup:
-
Darren,
Unless you are really sad like me, forget SS here, you might find brass to be much easier to work with
I was wondering how long it would take you to realise that barbed wire knickers hurt. Those crankwebs were a good example of self flagellation.
But you have done a great job with what you had.
Nothing against the way you did your slots as you achieved the correct result, it is just that I would have used a slightly different method to obtain the same result. There are always more ways to get the same results, and by showing them, people can choose the way they want to go.
The pic shows how I do it. If you take it steady, you can get results as good as a slitting saw.
I drew it up incorrectly, so I put my excuse at the top of the sketch. Makes it look like I am one of those brainy lefties.
John
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Darren,
I was wondering how long it would take you to realise that barbed wire knickers hurt. Those crankwebs were a good example of self flagellation.
But you have done a great job with what you had.
Yep, only bar I had the right size at the time, still is.......not that I would put myself through this again, I must shell out and buy some brass next time.... :poke:
Nice tip on sawing there, mine are off a bit but ok.
-
I'd had a good nights kip and it's been raining all day so no garage building to tire me out today. So being nice and allert, instead of the usual
deleted tired self I decided that I wanted to tackle something a little complicated this evening.
So I picked on the eccentrics as the plans suggested these could be taxing to produce.
Started with a 20mm SS bar, turned it to 18mm
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1931.jpg)
I had a nice 4mm parting blade so I squared it off with the grinder and honed it with a diamond stone to give a good edge to cut the 4mm slots.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1938.jpg)
Parted them off and took them to the mini lathe to tidy up and true up the lengths. I used the mini lathe cos it's metric and easy to understand the dials as I dislike imperial measurements.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1942.jpg)
I used the lathe to find the center, lined them up on the mill and used the mill dials to set the off center by 3mm.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1946.jpg)
Finished with a 5mm drill bit
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1949.jpg)
Drilled and tapped a bar 5mm and machined the off center to a true center :scratch:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1950.jpg)
Here I'm using the center finder to locate the position for the grub screw holes
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1952.jpg)
Drilled 2.4mm and tapped 3mm for the grub screws
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1956.jpg)
All fits nicely
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1958.jpg)
You could say I'm
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1954.jpg)
All turned out nicely and true to size, can't see what the fuss was about these are easy peasey to make, it's the rest that worries me :lol:
-
Nicely done Darren
Your realy pushing out some good work :clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
-
Darren,
The reason people have trouble with eccentrics is they think the sky will fall on their head if they don't use a four jaw independant to make them.
The way I showed is the easiest way I think they could be made, and your comment proves it. Once you have set up the first one, you can make a hundred all the same, without having to set up the four jaw every time.
Doing everything the way the 'flat earth society' (old phart machinists) does it, can lead to all sorts of problems, a bit of lateral thinking cures all that.
If it turns out right, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the method.
John
-
...
If it turns out right, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the method.
...
OT
Woohoo! Had the same thing in a different sense. Common practice in performance engines is to port (making bigger and polishing) the intake and exhaust ports of the head. Now depending on the make of the engine, the ports may already be to BIG. We found (with dyno testing) we would get more HP by decreasing the intake port size and dimpling the walls (think golf ball) than with a traditional port job!In fact, several motorcycle manufacturers have now been decreasing stock ports!
/OT
Truer words were never said John!
Eric
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Don't get me wrong John, If I hadn't read your instructions I'd probably have used the four jaw as well, and struggled.
Nope, your ideas show that a real newbie could do it....opps...I just did..... :lol:
-
Got to Say Darren that lathe of yours really does do a good job of the Stainless :bugeye:
This method of eccentric making will be logged and certainly referenced for future use.... It really does look damn easy!!! :ddb:
Oh Darren..... Not too "allert" then ehh!! :lol:
I have the strangest feeling that your going to be really proud of this little engine when it's finished :beer:
Glad your keeping us up to date on it's progress :thumbup:
Ralph.
-
Got to Say Darren that lathe of yours really does do a good job of the Stainless :bugeye:
Yes, I've manage to get turning SS down to a fine art, either 303 or 316. Those grooves are a 4mm plunge cut at full width and they turned out rather good.
I found the trick with HSS tooling and stainless is low rpm and low feeds, about 3-400 rpm. With tungsten tips the opposite is true and here I use 2-3000 rpm with a high feed rate, slower and the finish is not so good.
I think that's why peeps have difficulty with tips and SS, not enough speed. Of course others may have different ideas, though the above seems to work for me.
Drilling, milling and tapping is another ball game, but at last I'm beginning to get a feel for those too. A little way to go yet but it's comming.
Practice, practice, practice :)
-
The eccentric straps....
After testing my patience last night trying to drill a piece of plate/sheet brass and achieving nothing but broken drill bits and ruined pieces I eventually turned my attention towards some bar stock. If this means nothing to you see here for an explanation...http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1127.msg9154#msg9154
As you can see this is hex bar stock
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1979.jpg)
Two pieces where trued up to an exact 4mm thickness in the mini lathe
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1980.jpg)
I find the collet holder makes an excellent square, stands there all by itself leaving two hands free :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1981.jpg)
The piece was positioned using my center finder (I'd be lost without this now :dremel:) Then center drilled before drilling to a depth of 11mm 1.5mm dia.
I then ran a 1.6mm drill bit through ready for tapping.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1983.jpg)
Just to prove there are indeed two of them :)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1985.jpg)
The center was found and a step drill used to take the bulk of material away before cutting in half with a slitting saw.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1988.jpg)
Yep, still two of them, not messed up yet :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1991.jpg)
The slitting saw leaves an excellent finish. All these joints will need is a quick swipe over with a diamond file to de-bur and dress them.
I need to order some 2mm screws and taps to clamp these back together before continuing. Having drilled the holes before splitting I can be sure that they will line up perfectly :thumbup:
I used a pair of these as ultra thin parallels, they work quite well....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_1993.jpg)
-
Gosh that post sounds so dry....... :poke:
I had lots of fun making these honest.... :)
:ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
-
Darren, it was most probably the frustration from yesterday showing thru.
Now you have drilled your new ones quite successfully, you must be feeling a lot happier.
John
-
I love the idea of shaping the straps with the hex stock. :headbang:
-
Nicely done sir :thumbup:
You'll find tapping those easy with the combination of your "easy machining" bar stock and your tapping stand :)
Post read fine to me.... What does that say about me?!?
Looking forward to the continuing developments :)
Ralph.
-
Well done that man.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Hope you remembered to mark them up so you don't get them mixed up :doh:
Cheers
Stew
-
Darren, they are looking good, great idea using the hex bar and like the ultra think parallels! :thumbup:
Well, I probably won't be back on here until the weekend, at which point I may have met some of you at Harrogate hopefully. :D
Nick
-
Now you have drilled your new ones quite successfully, you must be feeling a lot happier.
Never a truer word spoken, I was starting to worry about my machinery being a bit naff, thankfully this normal brass drilled very smoothly.
I did swipe the tips of the drill bit to take the edge off, though I don't know how much this helped cos I wasn't taking any chances with a sharp one.
You could say I'd had enough of frustration by then :lol:
Thanks for this little tip John, all added to the database for future ref :thumbup:
-
I love the idea of shaping the straps with the hex stock. :headbang:
Thanks but the idea really came about due to what I had to hand that was big enough. Should look nice though :thumbup:
-
Darren, they are looking good, great idea using the hex bar and like the ultra think parallels! :thumbup:
Well, I probably won't be back on here until the weekend, at which point I may have met some of you at Harrogate hopefully. :D
Nick
Nice description, the blades where just sitting there staring at me saying, "me, me, me" :lol:
Worked really well too :nrocks:
-
Yep, marked up Stew, mixing these up would give me nightmares :bang:
This morning I've been looking at making an order for some 2mm screws....
What a price, these ARE expensive........very expensive...oh hum... :doh:
Edit:
Sorry, I saw M2 x 30 priced at 75 quid for x100, Kinda threw me :bugeye:
100 allen heads in 2mm x 16mm = 7.42
The same in slotted head is 3.11, half the price.
In these small headed SS screws I notice the allen heads can round off in a flash. Would it be better to use slotted in such small size from members experience?
I have a feeling they would be safer :scratch:
-
You are quite right Darren, they do strip out easily. When I exchange an engine I usually include a few in the spares pack for when the new owner strips them out.
If the matching of screws doesn't worry you, you would be better using the slotted variety.
John
-
Arggg....Arc Euro is closed till the 12th may due to the show
How inconvenient, I wanted to order a set of 2mm taps and some other stuff...... :doh:
-
Pick them up at the weekend..
Peter
:ddb: :ddb:
-
I see Shred has got his going.... :clap: :clap: :clap:
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4294.60
-
Yup.... He has... But it won't be a patch on yours :thumbup:
Rock on chief :headbang:
Ralph.
-
Don't be mean, I think he's done a grand job..... :ddb:
-
Hey Darren....
:poke: :poke: :poke:
That is all.
Eric
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We're having a bit of a heat wave here in the UK Eric, don't think it's been this hot for about 3 or four years.... :clap:
Sooo, I'm out enjoying it while it lasts, doing outside work. Result....too tired in the eve to go in the workshop... :(
I will get back to this, it will not go unfinished :thumbup:
Anyway....never mind :poke:ing me, where's your project.... :scratch: :poke: :poke: :poke:
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...
Anyway....never mind :poke:ing me, where's your project.... :scratch: :poke: :poke: :poke:
Which one?? I have about 7 on different burners. :dremel:
I will post some update pictures hopefully tonight.
Eric
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I thought I'd have a go at starting the cylinder block tonight from a sash weight.
I picked on the square one of my 3 that I have
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2350.jpg)
Scored all four sides with the disk cutter, inc the end as suggested by Bogs :thumbup:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2352.jpg)
Took it outside and threw it against the concrete floor, nothing happened, tried again, and again, and again. By now I was really belting it.
I resorted to finding a granite rock in the garden and whacking it against a sharp edge along the score marks. It took several goes but finally it gave in.
I then tried to knock the end off with a sharp cold chisel and a lump hammer. I gave up in the end, I just couldn't hit it hard enough.
I was suprised just how tough this cast iron is, didn't seem very brittle to me :lol:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2353.jpg)
I then decided that to remove the hard abrasive crust I would lathe it off with a half beaten carbide tip. After all I have enough of them and better that than ruin a milling cutter I thought. Managed it too with just the one tip.... :thumbup:
It was very uneaven and the surface slightly porus so took a bit of doing.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2356.jpg)
Off to the miller for a tidy up
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2360.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2361.jpg)
Alas, it looks as if it's going to be a tad too small in height, ended up at 29mm and the plans call for 32mm, not much in it but 3mm is 3mm.
Not sure what to do now, I don't currently have any other suitable material....... :bang:
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Personally I'd get another one made similar to that one and make 2 single cylinders out of 'em.... Round off the outsides etc, make a feature out of 'em
Then use the head etc to tie them together.
Well that's what I'd do anyway :borg:
Waiting to see this run still...... Do I have to do the rain dance some more to keep you inside and working? :ddb:
Ralph. :)
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You know I was thinking exactly the same thing, just not shure if I'd be making life a bit too hard for myself...dunno why, fear of the unknown I suppose... :scratch:
You can do a rain dance and spoil my garage build if you like, but only if you video it and stick it on Utube :lol: :lol: :lol:
Garage is coming along....I'll have to do an update.... :)
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Slight problem with the two cylinder idea,
Top and bottom plate are drilled for one block....I'd have to make some new ones.... :bang:
How about a slightly shorter piston and/or a thicker head with the 3mm built in?
Tired now, will look at the plans tomorrow...
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Bottom plate wouldn't change. Top plate would need different holes for mounting the block parts.
Leaving it 3mm short would be bad as the inlet holes spacing would be off.
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Darren,
That doesn't look like any sash weight I have seen before, sure it isn't a welsh pattern one made out of slate. The grain on that cast certainly doesn't look like normal cast iron, it just might be cast steel, hence the crappy finish you are getting.
Bogs
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Hi Darren
I agree with John that sash weight could be cast steel, if your going to make new have a go with a different weight, a good old English round one :thumbup:.
Stew
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Look at the alternative materials Darren, even though not recommended, you could use ali, but you would have to make sure you don't use an ali piston, and look out when cutting threads and tightening up small bolts, they could easily strip out the threads.
John
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Bottom plate wouldn't change. Top plate would need different holes for mounting the block parts.
Course not, silly me....
Leaving it 3mm short would be bad as the inlet holes spacing would be off.
Yep, looking at the plans this morning I can see it's not going to do....
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John/Stew,
I'm not certain what material this weight is due to lack of experience. I have come across some cast "something" before that had exactly the same properties in the form of a railway cart axle clamp.
They seem quite a bit harder and grainier than say the cast iron of the milling vice which machined like butter. The finish if much rougher too.
Would cast steel still produce a dust rather than a swarf when machined, and would it break like cast iron leaving that grey crystaline texture? (I say break like cast iron, this was hardly brittle when I was belting it)
:scratch:
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John/Stew,
(I say break like cast iron, this was hardly brittle when I was belting it)
:scratch:
That says it all you've got cast steel.
:hammer:
Stew
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Thanks Stew,
Do I take it cast steel has little use in our small world? That would be a shame as I have been collecting a bit of what I thought was cast iron and some are larger lumps.
I ssume there is no way of knowing till you try machining it?
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I can't realy answer that Darren everything as its use, the hard bit is finding it :lol:
I supose its a mater of finding the right technique to machine and use it.
As for recognising it you could try the old grinder spark test cast iron gives off dull red sparks, steel bright sparkly sparks, try it on some test pices of material you know.
Stew
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Ah, the grinding test, never gave that a thought, I will try it later and report back..... :thumbup:
Reading about, cast steel is one of the strongest forms of steel, often used for making tools.......
Back down to reality, I think a surface grinder would be needed to get the best out of it?
Saved for later then :)
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Darren,
As Stew has said, everything has a use. I have the base off a precision ball height gauge, made of cast steel. Can hardly machine the stuff, tough as old boots, even files skid over the surface.
But, just about to throw it away in the latest clearout, a little glimmer shone above my head. I can make a pressure weight out of it for my power hacksaw rather than tying up precious cast iron doing the same job. Another project to be done.
No waste and some other material freed up.
Yours will find a use eventually.
John
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The grind test def says steel...everything I've tried so far seems to be steel....
Grinds nice though, the lathe and mill might not leave a good finish but grinding does....in fact it's superb...
I'll post a pick later, gonna try the shaper now and see how that gets on with it....
I want a surface grinder !!!! Anyone got one they want out of the way.....well, if you don't ask..... :beer:
I can see a pattern here....I seem to like working with hard materials.
Mother always said I was difficult, developed it at a young age aparently :ddb: :ddb:
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I seem to like working with hard materials.
:lol:
Wait until you have to tap those 20+ holes
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Anything is possible Kirk, if you have enough cash to throw at it.
I personally would prefer to flog myself with something a bit less hard than cast steel.
Darren, there is a good use for it if you can drill and tap it.
Use it for making tipped tool holders. At least you know it is tough. You've proved that.
John
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Quick note, the shaper is doing really well, leaves a nice finish....
All I need to know now is if I can tap it, I have tapped hard stuff before :lol:
Pic's coming later got to go the shaper is running....
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Well here it is, bear in mind I'm only playing to see what I can do with it. Therefor a couple of blemishes remain....
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/IMG_2375.jpg)
Facing you is the shapers finish, not perfect but better than the lathe or miller by miles...
Top surface is a quick wipe with a diamond file, and I do mean quick as it didn't take long...
I still think a surface grinder could be a better solution but this will do me for now. It could prob be polised with the buffer and I imagine it would come out like chrome.
Way off track for this thread as I still can't use it for the engine, but while I had it in my hand I couldn't resist seeing what could be done.
It's bloomin hard though, must be able to use it for something....tipped tool holders, nice idea....I fancy a teeny tiny vice.
Yes I know I can buy one cheap enough, but I'd like to have a go at it all the same.... :dremel:
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I've been asked by PM what tools I use with my shaper. I thought an answer here may help a wider audience.... :ddb:
OK, I just like to talk a lot.... :lol:
In this case for the cast steel I used a tungsten tipped lathe tool. It worked just fine and cut very smoothly as you can see.
For other materials I also generally have used lathe tools. For the hardened shaft I made my quick change tool post dovetails I used a HSS with 8% cobolt ground to the shape that was required.
For softer materials such as steel, brass and allloy, I find ordinary HSS lathe tools quite satisfactory.
Hope this helps.... :D
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FWIW, I totaled up the number of tapped holes in my block (your number may vary):
Top caps - 10 (I used a pentagonal arrangement for bling. Fewer will work)
Bottom glands - 8
Bottom plate - 6
Side mounts - 8
So 32 tapped holes plus 4 untapped plus 2 cylinders - lots of drilling and tapping (did I ever mention I hate tapping?)
One of these days I'll need to total all of the screws that go into this thing. ::)
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Wow.... :jaw:
Is it that many.....brass it is then..... :lol:
Thanks for the wake up call..... :thumbup:
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Gents,
When I made it, it was either use lots of fixings or more complicated machining and joining techniques.
The screws won.
Lots of little easy bits screwed together to make one complicated bit. The crankshaft being a good example.
The cylinder assembly is in fact no more bolt ridden than any other model steam engine plans out there that use this type of valve gear, except for the top plate. The upright supports are usually machined into the cylinder assembly rather than using a plate to support the cylinders. All done to keep costs and machining down.
Bogs
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I had a good look at those sash weights tonight with a vision of using one for the cylinder block.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Welsh%20Highland%20Railway/IMG_3135.jpg)
Alas most of them are cast steel, I think one or two may be cast iron but they are too small..... :doh:
I had a go at milling one of the steel ones and it machines fine, but it's the small drilling and trappings that give me concern.
So back to brass then, should be a lot safer. I'll save the sash weights for another project sometime.
I wonder why virtually all the sash weight I find are made of steel....?
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FWIW, I totaled up the number of tapped holes in my block (your number may vary):
One of these days I'll need to total all of the screws that go into this thing. ::)
I totted up the screws I used one day.. More than fifty IIRC.