MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: madjackghengis on December 20, 2010, 11:56:44 AM
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Thanks to someone whose name I won't mention, posting a very tiny fly sized stirling engine on their build log, Nick, and then having to look at the other engines built by Herr Bettigue, and running across some of the most impressive engines I've ever seen, I was inspired to try to build a similar engine to one I found particularly interesting in how it runs. I had a cylinder I'd drilled, reamed, honed, cut fins on, all for the purpose of finding out the quality of the cast iron rod I bought for another project, and was just sitting around, so I decided to use it, and start the build of this engine from something I never intended to use when I made it.
I'm afraid it has been so long since I posted a picture from photo-bucket, I no longer know how to do it. There seems to have been changes made, and I could use a bit of advice to get some pictures in this new log. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :bang: :bang: mad jack
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Photobucket has changed some, but not very much. Basically what you do is, log in to http://photobucket.com/
Click on "My albums" (to get the pictures where you want them), third menu item. You will land to "(MadJackīs) Album", that is, the root folder of your albums. Scroll down a bit, and on the right side, you will find (in black) "Sub-Albums" (if you have any) and next to it, in blue text, "Create new album". Click on that, and a new pop up window opens that says "Create new album". First line is "Name your new album", there you could put (for instance) "New flame sucker" (or whatever!), next line is "Description", either leave blank, or put something descriptive. Itīs only for you, to help you navigate among albums ("albums" is Google-speak, Microsoft uses "folders". Same thing). Next line "Add as an album to:" will make this new album a sub-album(folder) in another album (folder) if you tick the box. I usually donīt. Fourth line is "Privacy Settings:", and it is already ticked as "public". And then click "Create album".
The new album page opens, itīs empty (no pictures loaded yet), click on the 5th (green) menu item "Upload now". Another page opens, thereīs a big green button that says "Select photos and videos". In my computer, itīs barely legible. Click that. You get a file selector box, from your own computer, navigate to where the pictures you want to show us are, choose them (many, please...), and click "Open". The upload starts, you can follow the progress, and then the page says "Upload complete!" A bit lower, on the right side, thereīs a blue button that says "Save and continue to my album". Click on that. (Donīt forget! You must save your pictures!)
Now you should be seeing the recently upped pictures. Also thereīs the new albumīs name. Now, hover with the cursor to the top of the image you want to post here. There drops down a menu box. First a blue menu, "Share|Edit|Delete|Move". In case you want to delete the picture, click "Delete", otherwise you wonīt much need that menu. But you can move pictures to another album with "Move".
Then there are four rows, "Email & IM" , and a box after that, with a web address. Not interesting.
Next line is "Direct link", and another box with a web address. Not interesting.
Third line is "HTML code", again a box with some HTML code. Not interesting.
But the fourth line is the interesting one, it says "IMG code", and again thereīs a box, which starts with
[IMG]http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/*******************. Now, click on that box, and for a second, it says "Copied". And reverts back to the code. Now you have the image code in your clipboard, and you can paste it to wherever it should be in your text. Thatīs about it.
Like said, many pictures, please!
:wave:
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Thanks for the very clear instructions Olli, let's see how these go. milling the sides of the little end of the rod to fit in the gudeon block slot
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0001.jpg) rotating the rod 90 degrees, drilled, and now reaming for the .125 wrist pin.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0002.jpg)hand reaming the piston gudeon block to remove burrs.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0004.jpg)testing the wrist pin fit through both the gudeon and the rod
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0006.jpg)a good fit and ready to try in the cylinder
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0010.jpg)next step, getting an idea of how long the rod must be to clear the cylinder for a long stroke, twice the bore
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0016.jpg)
now to measure, just for estimation purposes
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0015.jpg)
and flipping the rod the other side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0014.jpg)
now comes the fiddling around with the rod and piston to try to get a proper feel for the path of the rod as the crank turns
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0013.jpg)
Guestimate is the most accurate description of what I did, and I may have to forge the rod in strange shapes to clear, but, since there are no plans, it must end up pretty much as it fits, since I'm trying to avoid drawing or writing anything down and do it all one piece at a time. I don't really know what this will look like in the end, I'm looking forward to seeing it though.
I don't know if "fly tying" is something done anywhere else, and I don't do it myself, but it's a matter of taking a fish hook and tying bits of odds and ends like feathers and such, to make the hook look like a fly. I found the flytying vise on ebay for about three or four dollars, knew it would come in handy for holding things at odd angles and such, particularly wires being soldered, and it worked out well to hold up the rule while I moved the rod back and forth.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0017.jpg)the rod of the vise will slide up and down, with a thumb screw, the jaws are closed with a cam and the width of the opening set by turning the threaded sleeve the jaws are in, and you can turn the head with the jaws in any direction.
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Thanks Olli, I got the day before's work up, and maybe I can work on getting things a bit more organized on the log with yesterday's work. With the rough size of the needed structure for the crank figured, I squared up a piece of aluminum that is about the right size and started in making it look like an engine part. In the four jaw chuck, I started out drilling, step drilling up to seven eighths of an inch, readying it for boring.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0001-1.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0002-1.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0003-1.jpg)
now for boring it out.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0005-1.jpg)
I bored it out to an inch, to fit the spigot on the cylinder, then counter bored it, leaving 3/16ths of a flange, for cylinder bolts inside, bored it out to 1 and 5/16ths, for crank clearance. From there it goes in the mill to be centered up, and the crank shaft hole found, centered on the width, and just enough down from the top to give clearance for the ball races to fit.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0006-1.jpg)
Showing the bottom end, which will go over the cylinder spigot, crank holes on the opposite end.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/Ageless%20Engines%20Radial%20Engine%20Build/an%20odd%20flame%20sucker/_0007.jpg)
I've got cylinder room for an 1 and 5/8ths in piston travel in the cylinder, today I get to find out how much room I have for stroke, given where I've placed the crank hole. A longer stroke is more power, but a shorter stroke is more revs, so no matter what it ends up at it will be good enough for me. Lots of metal to remove today.
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i'll be following this thread!
my own "design" gulper is now on the back burner :doh:
i need to have a redesign of it, the bore is just too long :doh: , i ran in to problems of just too much air being moved.
i need to make a far bigger valve opening (didn't scale it up). this thread may just be the kick up the ar5e i need!
good luck!!
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Good luck Jack! :thumbup:
Watching, quietly....... :wave:
David D
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Nice build so far Jack with plenty of photos which is really helpful! I look forward to seeing how this one will turn out. I notice you are using a keyless chuck in your tailstock...I really fancy one of these. May be I`ll pick one up tomorrow as my last Christmas present!
Thanks for posting ...I`ll be watching.
Chris
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Hi MadJack, photos seem to be working. Looking good so far. I build most of my engines with the same basic attitude, making parts that should work together, not much (or any) drawings :) I like drawings, and can work to them, but I far more like to have an idea of how the engine should be, and work with that. And solve problems when they come, with what I have available. And hope for a reasonable outcome :) Iīll be watching!
Hi craynerd also, I have two keyless chucks, one in the lathe, other in the mill. They are interchangeable, exactly alike in fact, Roehm Supras with MT2 shanks. The mill is 2 meters from the lathe, so it wouldnīt be too much of a bother to have only one. But itīs ever so convenient to have two :D
One thing you should avoid with them is tapping. (Of course you CAN use them for taps also, but:) If and when you turn them (or the drill/tap) the "wrong way", they will open, and you have to tighten the chuck again. When tapping, you usually turn the tap for a turn or so, then turn 90o the other way, to break the chips, and whoa - the tap comes loose. Annoying. Other than that, I very much like them, and would scream aloud if I were forced to use keyed chucks in their stead.
:wave:
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Keyless chucks are rather long, for small machines....... ::)
David D
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Great write up, pictures and machining madjack, can't wait to watch this develop! I think flame gullets are my favourite type of engine! I've got 2 nights in the garage to get my tiny Stirling finished as it's my dad's Xmas present! Need a bit of a :poke:! this might do just that, only the crank and some sort of tea light stand to make.
Nick
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Nice start Jack :thumbup:
I've pulled up a chair to sit and watch...
Regards, Arnold
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Thanks Arnold, Nick, Olli, and everyone, comments are well appreciated, and the build is more enjoyable for it. I started yesterday with hopes of getting the crank support structure mostly done, but as usual, there is more than meets the eye, when it comes down to it.
with the crank bearing holes in place and recessed, I started with the bolts which will hold this together to the cylinder. I used a ten bolt circle, with the first and sixth holes perpendicular to the crank, because I have to cut this in half to get the crank in, when it is all done, and I wanted four good bolts holding each half, for rigidity. I didn't drill those two holes, the cut will go right through where they would be, but the bolts are better spread than an eight hole pattern would give
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007.jpg)
The spigot on the cylinder is an inch o.d., and the clearance for the crank is the bore of 1.375, so the PCD is .645, three thirty seconds larger than the spigot hole, so the bolts are centered in the 3/16ths "collar" inside the crank support. Only eight of the ten holes are drilled, clearance for #4 socket head screws, at .113 diameter, started with a center drill for accuracy, and then finished with the clearance drill.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-1.jpg)
setting up the cylinder in the vise is an easy task, the V block crosses the vise ways, needing no squaring up holding the cylinder nice and vertical.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011.jpg)
Another view of the cylinder, ready for bolt circles
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012.jpg)
using the same bolt circle as before, with the same pitch diameter, starting holes are drilled with a center drill, again, eight of ten laid out.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-1.jpg)
another shot of the cylinder being drilled out for tapping
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-1.jpg)
The cylinder done, removed but the shop vac has decided to take up smoking, and won't pick up the swarf, time for emergency surgery.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019.jpg)
Some serious disassembly
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018.jpg)
problem found, brushes stuck with only twenty or thirty years of service, does everything have to have short lives? Spinning the armature with my drill, I manage to get all the burned carbon, soluable oil, not soluable oil swarf and dirt off the commutator, so maybe it will be ready to get back to work now.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023.jpg)
Most of the parts so far, never mind the miscellaneous parts from other, not finished engines, but these fit together well.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0021.jpg)
A view down the well, two sets of holes.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0027.jpg)
the crank structure sitting on top of the cylinder, eight holes line up perfectly. Now I get to re-assemble the shop vac, clean my mill up some, and then start covering it with swarf again, I think I'll put a filter on the shop vac, it seems to be missing one. That might be how the swarf ended up in the brushes, Electrolux would cringe if they could see where their motor has got to now :bugeye: it's a dear friend, having been with me since I pulled it out of a green box twenty odd years ago, when the previous owner thought it had died. A little cleaning out of dirt, attaching it to a drum, fitting a filter, and a shop vac was born. Almost broke my wallet buying that filter.
Next session, tapping the holes, cutting clearance for the crank, and establishing the shape for the structure, esthetics, don't you know. Ta ta for now, thanks for sitting in on this. :poke: mad jack
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Nick, there are a pair of keyless chucks, one for the lathe one for the mill, and the third one, did I say a pair?, for the main drill press. Keyless chucks are great, but they are long, they are also self-tightening in the lathe, sometimes in the mill, and seldom in the drill press. Chris, I would be hard pressed to go back to using a key all the time, although I still have all those keyed chucks, lurking in drawers.
Olli, I couldn't have got it started off this well without your help, you've made it much better a presentation, and I have to say I too enjoy not knowing what something will look like in the end, the build sometimes takes on a life of its own. Somehow, I've gotten stuck on flame suckers, and can't put them down at the moment. I expect to get through it though, but will probably catch some other engine disease immediately after.
All of this has come about because of this forum, and the inspiration provided by so many un-named people building every sort of thing imaginable and I wanted this proper credit out where it is due. Is it kind of weird to be doing this thing of ours, in the middle of Christmas, when we could have clean hands, and be relaxing with friends and family? I guess it depends on whether one's a mechanic or not, at least I'm not on the side of a cold road, fixing brakes on a car, or refitting universal joints on a drive shaft, laying in the wet road.
Thanks for all the thoughts, opinions, encouragement, enthusiasm, and for being part of what seems to be a great big club, spanning things our governments cannot. God Bless all, and may all enjoy the full meaning and spirit of this Christmas Season, as we celebrate. We, more than most people, have so much to be thankful for. Merry Christmas, a bit ahead of time because I tend to be forgetful. :poke: :lol: :lol: mad jack
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Merry Christmas to you too madjack and everybody on the forum + families.
I'm off to try to finish, well, I will 'finish' the tiny stirling, it just might not work! Had clean hands and tried to relax with friends and family for the last few nights, so time to get them dirty again and get stuck in!
:offtopic:Things are looking up on the car front for me too so I shouldn't be lying on the wet drive under the car with a bit of luck - on a similar forum I've found somebody that will source me an engine and install it for a great price, and the other car (courtesy of my mum to the rescue :lol:) is being exchanged for something tomorrow which is newer, not as high spec but hopefully more reliable at no extra cost! If in doubt - ask mum to sort it!
Nick
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Well all, yesterday was not very productive, I misjudged the shop vac, and even extreme surgury didn't help, I believe I will have to dig a grave and bury it, with appropriate words said over it, and maybe someday it will be a Darwinian evolution seed, and start a new life form based on steel, aluminum, copper, cutting oil and military green paint.
Nick, I'm glad to hear you may be clearing up those car troubles, and your engine will run, it might take a bit, but one way or another, you will see it run, I feel certain of it.
I also took in a foundling Atlas shaper, which I'd traded off some time ago, and traded back the exact same Bridgeport Milling Head, back, which I got for it. I don't know what to do with it yet, but I'm sure it arrived for a purpose. more to follow. :hammer: mad jack
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Hi all, well, I had to put her back together and test her, but she was still smoking, and still refusing to pick up any swarf.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-2.jpg)
together again
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-2.jpg)
after testing, still smoking, no swarf.
I had a conference with "the boys", and some of them, knowing bertha was around long before they were, thought she ought to at least get a chance at life support, so I dug around, found another motor scrapped out of another vacuum, and pulled out the old one, putting the shop vac on life support.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-1.jpg)
first test, passed with flying colors, she might make it back to the land of the living. With a temporary filter of a layer of rag, she'll just need a couple of modifications.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-2.jpg)
turned a plug to fit in the crank structure, so it'll hold tight in the vise without distortion
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-1.jpg)
first cuts on the plug
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-1.jpg)
more turning, the blank is inch and three quarters, the bore of the crank support is 1.375
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-1.jpg)
final cuts for size, the support is a very snug fit
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-1.jpg)
Flipped the plug and reduced the o.d. so as not to interfere in the vise
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009.jpg)
plug in place, should support things just fine
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-2.jpg)
first cuts on the first end face
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-1.jpg)
plunge cutting, all the way into the interior with a 9/16ths in end mill
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-1.jpg)
using the end mill, cutting out a rectangular opening
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-1.jpg)
having flipped the support, milling the other end, cutting the rectangular opening
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-1.jpg)
flipped back, final cuts for the first end, opened up fully
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-2.jpg)
flipped again, final cuts on the second end, fully opened up now.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0020-1.jpg)
the support, open now, ready to be profiled to shape
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0029.jpg)
I want to lay out the sides, no special angle, just connecting one point to another, with a gauge so both sides are the same.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-1.jpg)
with the angle scribed on both sides, the set up in the mill is by eye, setting the slitting saw right on the line
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0024.jpg)
the slitting saw, .062 thousandths, and the arbor, with a .750 inch shank
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0025.jpg)
having taken two cuts on the front side, I'm taking a cut on the back side, two to remove the meat, a last one to take out the smallest bit holding the scrap in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0026.jpg)
the last cut on the back side, the scrap piece flips onto the vise, just right.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0027-1.jpg)
having added the plug again, starting to cut the second side out, no support except the plug for this side.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0028.jpg)
working the same as the first side, taking the final cut to take off the last piece of scrap
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0032.jpg)
the partially finished crank support, sitting on the cylinder, side view
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0031-1.jpg)
another view, from the top
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0030.jpg)
With the crank support bolted in place, you can see the space for the crankshaft to turn in, the next step will be to cut the support in two, so the two sides can have bearings put in place and slid over the mainshafts, then bolted in place to connect with the connecting rod. Maybe today will bring a crankshaft to a workable state. I'm still not too sure what the stroke will be, hopefully my guestimate worked out, and an inch and a half, double the bore, will clear the cylinder with the rod, even if I have to beat (forge) it into submission, I mean into shape. :lol: mad jack And remember, only mad dogs and Irishmen go out in the noon day sun :headbang:
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Wow, that looks fantastic, some great techniques, sure I can learn from there.
Glad to see the vacuum working again!
Nick
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excellent
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most excellent :thumbup:
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Hi all, thanks for the comments, and the thoughts for my shop vac, does anyone know, is there too big a port for a flame sucker? I just read in someone else's thread there is such a thing as too small a port, that nice looking piece of stainless with a half inch hole is looking awful good for a head, being round, about the right size, and stainless, just needing some bolt holes and maybe some other work. I was thinking maybe a half bore sized port, say 3/8ths or so, but a nicely turned piece, kind of hard to ignore. :coffee: :smart: mad jack
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Lo Jack, I donīt think thereīs any problem in making quite a big port for a flame sucker - as long as you also have a flame to "cover" most or all of the port. So that the engine wonīt suck in any cool air. Thereīs a German chap, H. Midderhoff, who sometimes writes in "Maschinen im Modellbau", who has the ports in his engines as big as the cylinder bore (the cylinder tops are open, with poppet valves, sort of). And they do run!
Hereīs a picture (and a very lousy one at that... taken from a laptop monitor. MiM, 1/2007) of his V6 (inverted) flame sucker. Top right picture shows the 3 cylinders and valves (left is all open, middle closed, right halfway open), and the burners (each cylinder has 2 gas burners). The valves open really wide!
Mr. Midderhoff practically "blows" the flame into the cylinders, instead of relying on the suction only. His motors not only run, but actually develop some power. Lowest right picture is of the engine running.
The port certainly can be too small, so that thereīs no time to fill the cylinder with hot gases.
BTW. Looking real good. What are the materials? Seem like cast iron + steel. 3rd last picture - is that hand grenade live?
:wave:
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Hilo Olli, thanks for the information and the link, sort of. I suppose if I try and fail, I can always make the port smaller later. If you have an actual link to that engine, I would sure love to have it. So far, the cylinder is iron, the piston is steel, the "gudeon" in it for the rod is aluminum, as is the crank structure, and the head will be stainless, because it is not very heat conductive. I've got a bit more done, four inches of snow means a quiet shop with a nice hot fire in the stove.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-3.jpg)
turning off the sharp corners of the support, excess metal, and not in keeping with the shape I want.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-2.jpg)
centering the cylinder under the mill spindle, for head bolt holes, while I've got a square block bolted to the cylinder
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-1.jpg)
drilling ten holes, to match the pattern on the other end, #4-40 is the size
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-2.jpg)
The mill all this is being done on, an 84 Enco with a phase converter making it variable speed in sixteen different ranges
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-3.jpg)
drilling two inch and a quarter by two plus spare, by quarter inch thick crank cheek blanks
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-2.jpg)
reaming the crank pin hole, .250
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-2.jpg)
reaming the main shaft holes, also .250
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-2.jpg)
centering a stub arbor to mount the blanks on, to turn a radius on both ends of the blanks
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-2.jpg)
attaching the blanks with a bolt through both into the stub arbor
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-3.jpg)
starting the turning of the radius, the blanks will be two inches long when done
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-3.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-1.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-1.jpg)
radius finished, right to size
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0020-2.jpg)
laying out the crank lines
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0021-1.jpg)
laying out the second side, both by eye, close enough
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0022.jpg)
setting up the first side in the shaper to cut to finish profile
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-2.jpg)
taking the first cut
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0024-1.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0025-1.jpg)
still roughing it out
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0026-1.jpg)
taking shape
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0027-2.jpg)
getting down to the line
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0028-1.jpg)
flipped the cutter over for the finish end for the final cuts
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0029-1.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0030-1.jpg)
another view of the cutting edge
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0032-1.jpg)
setting up the cross feed, .005 per stroke
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0034.jpg)
last cuts
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0038.jpg)
almost done
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0040.jpg)
the finished side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0041.jpg)
another view of it (first side)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0042.jpg)
tool flipped back over, trued up with a stone, set up for the second side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0043.jpg)
first cuts, ya gotta love the smell of the sulfurated brown cutting oil :thumbup:
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0044.jpg)
more cuts
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0046.jpg)
having finished the second side, I had to go back to the first, to even it up with a roughing cut of about .030
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0047.jpg)
the final cut on the first side, cheeks fully profiled to shape
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0048.jpg)
deburring after the shaper, with a fine file
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0049.jpg)
and the other side as well
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0052.jpg)
finished up, ready to build up a crank shaft
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0053.jpg)
most of the parts in a pile, yes, that was an enfield bayonet blade you saw, 1918 and still not worn out yet. That's as far as I got yesterday, we'll see what I can turn out today, still four inches of snow on the ground, and not melting yet, hmmm, even in North Carolina, a special treat that happens only once every few years, maybe ten or so.
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Hi Jack, looking great. Shapers seem very handy, a pity I wonīt ever have one (no room here to even think about getting one).
Thereīs very little in the Net about Mr. Heribert Midderhoff (of the weird flame suckers). No web site, and very few pictures of his work. But heīs a prolific builder, turns out engines like sausages. One picture from a M.E. show in Sinsheim (a big yearly German event):
http://www.modell-dampf-forum.info/Galerie/Sinsheim3/midderhoff2.html
Click on [Voriges Bild], to see the same engine standing still.
Thatīs a 4-cyl version of the same type of cylinder/valve. Heīs also done a 12-cylinder (!) version of it. Some model builders just are not interested in the Net. Another similarly "challenged" is Mr. Lothar Matrian. If ever you come across that name, itīs worth following. Fantastic work, and no Web presence.
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Just found a picture of Mr. Midderhoffīs 12 cyl. engine. Some guest in the Karlsruhe/Sinsheim 2010 show had it in his album. Air cooled, as you can see. I think it will make quite a racket, with all those 12 valves clicking all the time... :loco: But a nice looking and powerful (as flame suckers go) engine.
:wave:
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Lo there Olli, too bad about not fitting a shaper in the shop, they are handy, and while "obsolete", for the home shop, they do all sorts of things that are still better done, one off, on a shaper, than setting up a mill, and the tooling is cheap. I really appreciate the picture of the 12 cylinder engine, I've got to take a closer look at it, and see what he's up to. As far as the web, I only learned about it less than a year ago, or I would have been posting for years. We can always hope Herr Midderhoff gets comfortable with it and starts posting. Have you been to bettigue.blogspot.com? That gentleman is a whiz with tiny flame suckers and Stirlings, and has quite a few on u-tube, real fine looking machines, and runners. My wife has gotten to hate the sound of a flame sucker, I've gone through many stages of pistons, cylinders and valves, trying to find something that will last a while in that little blazer engine, but it isn't a very enduring engine as I've built it so far. I just replaced the aluminum cylinder and graphite piston with a brass cylinder and bronze piston, because the graphite piston lost compression, I'm not sure if it was piston or cylinder, but it looks like the cylinder is not so round and straight as it seemed on first fire. Now the brass cylinder and piston are losing compression, I ordered a stick of cast iron last night, and will try a cast iron cylinder and piston, they work together very well, and a bronze valve won't score and wear on the valve face hopefully. I got a head made for this engine yesterday, and cleaned up the crank support, but won't be able to post till I get back from the doctor's, I've got an infusion, and I.V. for my M.S. in a couple hours, so I have to get ready to go out, and I'm looking at that engine first. Thanks for all the info and the conversation as it is, quite a thing this forum, isn't it. :thumbup: mad jack
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More nice work madjack, again, great step by step with great pics!
I'd agree with Olli that you need a flame big enough to completely cover the port but also, if the port is too large, I guess the velocity at which it draws gas in could be too slow - but that's relative to the bore. 1/2" sounds big to me but what is the bore again?
Don't worry about posting updates, look after yourself first and foremost. :thumbup:
Nick
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snip Have you been to bettigue.blogspot.com? That gentleman is a whiz with tiny flame suckers and Stirlings, and has quite a few on u-tube, real fine looking machines, and runners. snip
Yes, thatīs the site of Mr. Günter Bettinger. He is/was a professional fine mechanic and machine building technician (the German terms do not translate too well). Now in a wheelchair, and a pensioner. And does he ever build small Stirling (and other) engines!
Another very small Stirling at http://www.pahmeyer.homepage.t-online.de (and many other nice ones)
There are 4 "larger" engines in glass cases, but look at the lower left corner...
And one more, at http://www.stirlingparadise.de/coll_schager/scha_daum_99.jpg
Some Germans like their Stirlings small.
:wave:
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Hello all, and thanks again for more threads, Olli, and for comments, Nick, I sort of got hooked on this line of engines for a bit, and the designs of Herr Bettigue are fantastic, hardly believable, except they run, and very well. Thanks for the new sites to look up, too.
I got a bit more done, and it's looking more like an engine, and less like a pile of parts, here's the latest changes:
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-4.jpg)
I had that piece of stainless, and it was perfect looking, but too thick, so I faced it down to .250, and bored the .625 center hole, tapered, to give a "leading edge" on the valve side close to sharp, for thermal efficiency.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-2.jpg)
finished in the lathe, ready for the head bolt holes
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-3.jpg)
setting up on parallels, with an extra set to ensure the drill will clear the main ones.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-2.jpg)
Having center drilled the bolt circle, drilling clearance size holes for the #4-40 head bolts
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-2.jpg)
using a 3/16ths in milling cutter to counter bore for the allen heads
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-3.jpg)
roughed out, ready for deburring and then polishing
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-3.jpg)
the valve side, with counter bores and somewhat polished, I'll finish polishing it when it is ready for assembling the valve
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-2.jpg)
the cylinder side of the head, the finish is finer than the photo shows
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-2.jpg)
I had a mount base for a "motor-generator" out of an aircraft radio system, which turned 28 volts into three phase 400 cycle 115, the motor-generator was burned out, but the mount seemed interesting, so I cleared out all the "spare parts", and mounted it in the mill, drilled clearance holes for head bolts, a .750 center hole to match the bore of the cylinder, and set up the cut off saw, before I realised I didn't take any pictures of those operations. This is anodized aluminum 6061 T-6 and work hardened from the forming in its original purpose.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0021-2.jpg)
The head side, after deburring
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0022-1.jpg)
the cylinder side, with ears for mounting in the eventual frame
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-3.jpg)
trying the head on, through the mount, and to the cylinder
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0024-2.jpg)
another view of the head end
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-3.jpg)
a side view of the cylinder with mount and head attached
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0025-2.jpg)
the cylinder assembly with the crank support attached
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0026-2.jpg)
a side perspective of the assembly
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0027-3.jpg)
a view with the crank mocked up in place, and blocked up in its eventual working position
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0028-2.jpg)
The same thing, but with a view of the head, where the flame will impinge. That's about it for now, I've been patiently waiting to get to where I could finish the crank, and had to have all the other parts in place, to be sure it would be right, so today I get to set up the crank, and maybe get it completed. Ta ta for now, thanks for watching and helping. :smart: :coffee: mad jack
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Definitely starting to look engine-like now madjack, how did you work out where to drill the holes for the bolt circle? or have I missed that?
Nick
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Hi all, and sorry Nick, I managed to lock my ram chip and took a bit to figure out why the camera wasn't working. I used my mill's DRO and used the same PCD figures from the drilling and tapping of the head bolt holes, after location on the center of the recycled motor mount, then I used a 3/4 in end mill to make a matching center hole, matching up with the cylinder bore. After that came the cutting off which is shown.
I did get some done yesterday, finally getting to really work on the crank and the rod, after getting other datum points established, by putting a head on.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-2.jpg)
Turning down the end of the rod to be threaded to take a bearing holder for the ball race I intend to use
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-2.jpg)
more turning, going from a quarter inch, down to .164 for a #8-32 thread
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-3.jpg)
since the thread isn't critical, I'm using a dieholder and a die
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-3.jpg)
The die holder is double ended, taking 3/4 in dies and 5/8 in dies, starting as a piece of inch hex steel, reamed half an in, and with a fuel pump pushrod from a Chevy engine, which happens to be a ground and polished half inch of good tool steel, to guide the die holder, threads are reasonably straight.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-3.jpg)
cutting the threads with brown cutting oil, turning the chuck by hand, and holding the die holder
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-4.jpg)
Another view, putting on more threads, room for a lock nut
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-3.jpg)
Cleaning up the first thread, you can't see it, but there is a center in the end of the rod and threads
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-4.jpg)
not enough room in the crank for a regular nut, I found a #6 nut that was extra wide, and chucked it
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-4.jpg)
drilling the nut out to tap size for #8-32
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-3.jpg)
tapping out the nut, plenty of room, good solid walls
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-5.jpg)
With a piece of scrap bronze already on size, with a hole, opening it up with a 9/16ths end mill, with a piece of packing in one jaw to eccentric the center hole for more meat for the rod to thread into. the end mill is taking the meat out, saving some boring if you look careful, you can see the scribed line on the side showing, opposite the packed jaw, which I used to center the work in the mill.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-3.jpg)
The big end piece, forgot to take pictures of boring and facing, it was then put in the mill vise with the scribed line I made opposite the packing in the jaw, dead center on top, a small flat milled, and then drilled and tapped, deburred at the bench.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-4.jpg)
another view of the rod end
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-3.jpg)
the rod end with bearing fitted, next to the completed rod
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-4.jpg)
with all that figured out, I had to turn down the rod to clear the cylinder, with a 3/4 in bore, and an inch and a half stroke, I thought I'd loosen the set screws holding my top slide, center my cross slide on where the rod interferes with the cylinder, and swing the top slide side to side to form a radial size reduction. After cutting as deep as I could without striking the chuck, I found it wasn't deep enough, and had to resort to more common methods
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-3.jpg)
using a tangential tool, I cut most of it down, but didn't like the abrupt corners at each end
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0021-3.jpg)
I centered the machined small end in a four jaw, put a live center in the tail stock, and went to work with a half in tool with a nice radius on the end
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0022-2.jpg)
with the radius cutter, I took it slow to avoid chatter, and put a radius on the small end, going over the turned down section by hand numerous times
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-4.jpg)
and working toward the threaded end for a nice radius there as well
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0024-3.jpg)
with all the parts assembled, I found I had to turn the rod down a bit more, and finally ended up with a round file, clearancing the two sides of the cylinder with a small round notch, which are in a place the piston doesn't reach.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0025-3.jpg)
And here's where I left off, with the rod length right and the piston clearing the head by a few thousandths, the rod clearing the cylinder by plenty, and I finally get to put the crank together solid, and start working on a base to support all these engine parts. With the whole assembly sitting on its head on a piece of glossy advertising, I can pull up the crank throws and let go and the piston flips the crank down with a solid feeling and an interesting sound as it hits the air leaked in, about an 1/8th in from the head and feels like great compression. That does it for yesterday, and maybe I can get some more done this day. Thanks for all the comments and watching, I'm hoping to know what it will look like, soon. :lol: mad jack
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"Thanks for all the comments and watching, I'm hoping to know what it will look like, soon".
Jack. Me too!
It is developing nicely. Will look, and perform great! :thumbup:
Nowt much to say. Watching quietly... :wave:
David D
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A great thread Jack very interesting and some great maching methods for us to learn from.
Look forward to the next instalment
Stew
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"I'm hoping to know what it will look like, soon".
+1 me too... So far itīs looking really good. And rather big also, sitting on top of the advertising. Iīm also learning new methods how to do things. Did you glue the bearing in the rod end, or press fit?
:wave:
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It's looking great to me Jack, Love the big end / con rod idea. :bow:
Nick
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Hi guys, you all flatter me, and I thought I was learning from all of you! :poke: I wanted to have an old style con rod, like was common in the early steam years, and with "atmospheric engines", built up and interesting looking, not machined from a forging, or billet. The ball bearing is a push fit in the bronze "end" and loctited in with green #609 stud and bearing mount. It is a press fit on a common 1/4 in dowel pin, and the need to modify the #6 nut shows well in the picture, it is wide enough to be sturdy and lock the rod, but small enough in o.d., to clear the crank throws with plenty of room, something the #8 nuts in regular pattern don't, and on top, they don't look right either.
I didn't get a whole lot done yesterday, I had to go out in the first opportunity since the snow, and do some maintenance on the woods, as many trees were damaged by the weight of snow, and more than "owning" the sixty odd acres, I feel like a steward of the forest. I only had to take down one dead tree, to keep it from taking out others if allowed to go down on its own, but it added to my fire wood, and spent a couple hours with a chainsaw overhead, cutting out broken and bent too far branches, so they will come back to life in the spring.
I started out with the big end, digging through my scrap bronze, as it needed some color, and found a piece about .300 thick, round, sides parallel, with a hole in the middle about 3/8ths in dia. I put it in my three jaw, with a piece of eight gauge copper wire under one jaw and ran through the hole with a 9/16ths end mill to take most of the meat out, then bored it right on size for the .625 o.d. of the bearing, and faced both sides down to bring it to .250 width, then put the scribe mark made by eye, opposite the packed jaw, dead top in the milling vise, and drilled and tapped it for #8-32 to match the rod. I then had to work out the exact length of the rod, as the piston was hitting the mount plate, but losing two threads did the trick, and gave me clearance. In the mean time, the UPS truck came by and dropped off a box with some stainless allen bolts, #4-40 and a foot of inch and an eighth cast iron rod.
The idea for the head is to keep it hot, as stainless isn't very conductive, use stainless bolts to hold it on, and conduct the least amount of heat through the ten bolts, and sandwich the mount plate, aluminum, between the head and cylinder, so most of any heat transfered directly through conduction would be absorbed by the aluminum mount plate, and conducted to the eventual frame, keeping the iron cylinder as cool as reasonably possible. The ten bolts through the head, mount plate into the cylinder pull it all up tight enough the mount plate acts as a head gasket, and seals remarkably well, I was planning on paper gaskets, but don't think I need them.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-6.jpg)
having gotten all the parts fitted dry, the whole of the crank assembly is put together with stud and bearing mount loctite #609, and carefully laid out to bond in line.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-3.jpg)
In the mean time, I removed the crank standard, clamped it up in the mill vise, and set up a slitting saw to cut it in half, so the whole crank assembly can have the standards assembled around it, since the crank won't come apart to fit it into place.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-3.jpg)
With a .062 slitting saw some soluable oil for lubrication and cooling, the standard is cut in half and then deburred and cleaned up at the bench.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-3.jpg)
With the standard cleaned up, the crank and rod assembly setting up, everything is on hold until I can cut the main shaft out from between crank cheeks, and trial assemble, hopefully everything should be fitting well. In the mean time, it's a pile of parts again.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-3.jpg)
The rod and crank assembly setting, and a view of half the crank standard the two main bearings, and some miscellaneous shafts and tools. As of this morning, the crank assembly seems to have set up well, and I should be able to assemble the main of the engine, and start on either the base and support structure, or on the cam and valving, and the flywheel. I should get a bunch done today, as I did my forest work yesterday, and have plenty of both wood and time. Thanks for watching and for the input. Oh, by the way, with the cylinder o.d. at 1.750, the head 2.000 in dia, and the assembly about five inches long, it will be rather big compared to my last flame sucker, it ought to make some power as well. Ta ta for now, :lol: mad jack
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Looking good Jack :thumbup: - keep them coming!
:beer:, Arnold
PS - Happy New Year!
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, Arnold, and a happy new year to all modelers :beer: may there be plenty of interesting projects to be done.
I didn't get as much done as I wanted yesterday, helped a friend get further on his 51 Harley project bike, and split some wood for him with my log splitter. Apparently I didn't get enough of the green stuff in the crank pin holes and on the pin, as it didn't lock up tight like it should, so I ended up with the crank in strange shapes when I cut out the piece of mainshaft between the crank cheeks. I filed them down flat, to a good finish, got out my locktite 680, super stud and bearing mount for obstinate studs and bearings, just barely got the crank cheeks properly aligned and in place before it started to set, but did get the crank straight, and then left it sit a while before carefully threading the crank supports on each mainshaft, and with a piece of flat steel stock between the cheeks, clamped to the bench, tapped the main bearings onto their tight fitting drill rod shafts, and getting them close enough to bolt the crank standards back on the cylinder, and then get the bearings fully in their bores, and the crank properly centered between the standards, while adjusting the bearings on their shafts till there was no pressure either way, and the crank spins freely. With the rod set up with the threaded end, I was able to use the gudeon screw in the piston, to screw the rod up into the big end with the ball bearing, and then align the wrist or gudeon pin parallel to the main shaft, and tighten the lock nut on the rod end.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-4.jpg)
This is assembled with the piston at about top dead center
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-7.jpg)
Here's the rod close to bottom center, moving very smooth and no tight spots
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-5.jpg)
and here's the rod at about half stroke, all the way through with smooth action, no discernable tight spots, and very good vacuum when held against my palm, and the crank flipped, it wants to be running very badly, and is in a bit of a hurry, I think. I just found a piece of spring steel from among a box of ex printer parts, which I think will work well as a valve, at least for now, and I found a gear I can use on one end of the crank, so maybe I can mount this cylinder assembly and work on a cam, operating lever, and valving, not to mention a worth while and interesting flywheel. Just placing it with the head on the counter, and flipping the crank pulls the piston back down to top dead center with a substantial pop and strong sense of vacuum. I'm hoping to have more to show in the next post. :beer: mad jack
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All sounds promising madjack, I like the design. :bow:
Nick
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Hi all, I got a bit more done yesterday, took my dogs for a walk, tried to catch a picture of Gandalf, on his back with all four paws waving in the air, but the camera didn't take the picture until two seconds later and he was standing already. Buddy is over by the shop, ready to get to work sleeping.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-7.jpg)
Gandalf's the big red dog, Buddy's over by the shop door, getting ready for his afternoon nap
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-6.jpg)
removed the mount plate to put in mount holes, now that I know how it fits the cylinder
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-6.jpg)
centering the mount in the mill vise
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-5.jpg)
center drilled, drilled and now tapping the mount plate
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-5.jpg)
first side done, ready to flip
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-5.jpg)
flipped over, centered, center drilled, drilled and tapped for #8-32
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-5.jpg)
thinning a piece of stainless scrap for a flywheel, setting up for a hub
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-5.jpg)
Almost done, just need to recess it for looks
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-5.jpg)
cutting the recess to give the flywheel character
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-5.jpg)
setting up to drill and tap the hub for a set screw
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-6.jpg)
I found a Briggs & Stratton cam, tested it found it workable, and I'm cutting a hub to use it for a flywheel
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-5.jpg)
with the hub formed, center drilled, drilled and reamed for the main shaft, facing off the tool marks on the cam gear
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-5.jpg)
Holding the hub in the three jaw, facing off the second side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-5.jpg)
with the second side faced, finishing off the removal of the teeth, I think I will drill some holes in this to give it some character and maybe make it a bit lighter. Next comes the cam and valve gear, so I can set up the mount with no interferance with them. It's getting closer to putting fire in it. That's about it for this morning. mad jack
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Lookin' real good so far MadJack.
I like your shop, nice and big. :thumbup:
I see you have no snow. Why's that? :scratch:
Bernd
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Hi All, well Bernd, this is North Carolina, we don't keep snow more than a few days, as we prefer rain, thank you :lol: even the dogs prefer rain, although they do get very excited when they encounter knee deep snow which they haven't seen since they were pups. Just a week ago, they were all, including the one not in the picture, dancing with glee, with plenty of "air time", and eating the white stuff.
But, back to the engine, I don't much like stainless, it has a few places it belongs, and is almost irreplaceable, but otherwise, it should hide and be hard to see, in my never very humble opinion. Fortunately, I found a cam from a lawn mower engine, tested the shaft with a hacksaw, cut off the gear with meat for a hub, and started turning. A couple pics are already posted, here's the facing, having put the stainless flywheel on a shaft, and found it inherently unbalanced, something to do with the nature of stainless, and the different metals migrating to their own part of their world, and not liking to be spread throughout the piece of metal. So, on with an iron flywheel, as engines are supposed to have.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-8.jpg)
facing off the flywheel for final finish, after the teeth are gone.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-10.jpg)
with an extra long center drill, then the tap drill held in the very end of the chuck jaws, barely reaching through the hub, and the tap with just enough square showing to get it started straight, tapping the hub for a set screw in #4-40 tapping finished with an adjustable wrench, nice cast iron, smooth and consistent, easy to work.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-7.jpg)
the engine apart so a hole can be tapped for a pivot post for the valve actuating arm, the pivot is at the base of the crank structure.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-7.jpg)
another shot of the disassembled engine and some spare parts for the valve set up. The flywheel should get some weight reducing holes today, along with the final determination of what kind of valve will be used, I'm kind of caught between a swinging valve plate, and the sort used in The Poppin', coming up from underneath. I'm sort of waiting for the lightbulb to light up. Some stainless sheet from a computer printer is waiting to be cut into proper shape, depending on which direction I go in. more to come on this. mad jack
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Nice stuff Jack,
I've seen both types of valve working well. Will the poppin type be easier to establish and maintain the seal because of the angle it moves up at? It moves up and down in an arc so as it's closing it's pushing nearer to the cylinder against the springiness of the valve material. This may be easier to set up initially than a swinging one, just a thought. Then again, do these just rely on the fact that the valve is really thin and the suction keeps it against its face?
Nick
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Hi all, getting further along, I don't know why things work out the way they do, Nick, I think the "poppin" works freely because there is almost no friction with regard to the valve, as only the swivelling of the shaft in its bearings, and the slight pressure at the closing of the valve have any real "bearing" on the friction issue. I know that valve friction is important in the Duclos flame sucker, because I've tried several different valve types and have reverted to the spring pressure bronze plate with the tiny slot as the freeist moving.
On this engine, I was struck by the nature of some of my scrap, I knew I had a piece of metric ground shafting, small, and with two sintered bronze bushes which came out of a CD player, and I found the box with the scrap from that old player, and the light lit up. First, I had to get rid of the stainless flywheel, so I got to work on the cast iron one
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-11.jpg)
center drilling the iron flywheel for nine holes
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-9.jpg)
step drilling my way up to size
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-8.jpg)
a half inch set of holes is all that would fit where I put them, but it seems like a good flywheel, on just a straight shaft in the main bearings, the flywheel stops at random, so it's pretty well balanced as is
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-6.jpg)
the flywheel in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-6.jpg)
a frontal view of the flywheel on the engine, note the second "extra" hole, put in to balance the hole that was already in the gear. that 7.62 by 54r casing isn't just there for looks, it is what I used to press the bearings onto the mainshafts, with the pressure entirely on the inner race to keep from damaging the ball bearings
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-8.jpg)
drilling the cross hole in the valve shaft stanchion for the 2.5mm valve shaft, the other cross hole is to the left, in the shaft in the vise jaws
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-6.jpg)
facing off one stanchion to length, measuring from the "bottom" of the shaft hole to the base of the stanchions
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-6.jpg)
facing off the other to match, both have been drilled and tapped #4-40
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-6.jpg)
stanchion with valve shaft pressed in place, sintered bushings along side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-6.jpg)
stanchion and shaft with allen screw in the base of the stanchion
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-6.jpg)
making the valve carrier, narrowing it for clearance
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-7.jpg)
more milling, started with quarter by one inch 6061-T-6 bar, reducing end to 3/4 inch
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-6.jpg)
final cut to size, time for drilling for the valve shaft
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-6.jpg)
after center drilling, drilling through with an undersized hole
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-5.jpg)
no reamer that size, finishing with a sharp drill on size
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-5.jpg)
the valve shaft hole with bushings pushed in place with loctite
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-4.jpg)
another view of the valve shaft bushings
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0020-4.jpg)
machining clearance in the top of the valve carrier
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-5.jpg)
machining down the carrier, making room for a valve between it and the head
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0024-4.jpg)
more trimming, with a flycutter, holding the carrier by less than an 1/8th inch in the vise
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0025-4.jpg)
taking finishing cuts, checking for clearance against the stanchions and head surface for reference
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0026-3.jpg)
finishing the other side beyond the bushings
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0027-4.jpg)
final cuts over the bushings, to ensure they clear the head in action as well
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0029-3.jpg)
the valve carrier blank
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0030-2.jpg)
finding a piece of bronze .875 in diameter with a spigot on it, I turned down the spigot to a quarter inch, and chucked on that spigot to face off two thirds of the thickness of the valve
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0031-4.jpg)
more facing, final thickness will be .090 inches
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0033-1.jpg)
with the valve to size, taking a cut to "hollow" the center to reduce the area of contact leaving a good .200 rim laying flat on the head surface for sealing. the hollow is about fifteen thousandths deep, just enough to relieve it.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0034-1.jpg)
after center drilling on the marked spot, drilling through the valve carrier
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0035.jpg)
with the spigot on the valve turned to .248, reaming the carrier hole at .250
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0036-1.jpg)
some bandsaw profiling, and filing to a fine finish, the carrier end finished
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0037.jpg)
the valve sitting in the carrier
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0038-1.jpg)
the carrier with the valve, mocked up on the head
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0039.jpg)
with both stanchions pressed on the valve shaft, with the valve carrier cut to fit, the valve gear fit to the bracket and the valve in place against the head, fitting nicely, freely moving, with a good vacuum seal being the final test. This wasn't exactly what I thought I was going to do for a valve, but it turned out nicely, and fits well, funny how those lightbulbs sometimes don't exactly end up making parts you thought would be there. This valve is inspired by Herr Bettinger and his #2 Flammenfresser, which runs too well not to copy from. Next, I will have to make the operating lever and cam to move the valve in time and space, and maybe look at some sort of frame or something. Thanks for watching and all the comments, I'm having more fun than a human bean is supposed to :poke: mad jack :lol:
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Great work as always Madjack, I've never seen a valve like that before but looks a good idea.
What keeps the valve against the port face though? Is it designed to blow off the face as the piston nears TDC and the pressure increases? and what will keep the carrier from pivoting on its shaft, or is it supposed to?
Very intriguing build this. :bow:
NIck
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Very interesting stuff their Jack is this your own design ?, some great work.
I hope that pineapple isn't live
(http://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/humor/www.MessenTools.com-emoticones-humor-131.gif) (http://www.messentools.com/en/msn-emoticon-details-and-download/id/2398/)
:D
Can't wait to see it running
Stew
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Hi all, actually Stew, it used to be, but is now inert, but can be revived if'n govment agents start nosing around here abouts. We don't much like govment agents and revenuers :bugeye: This kind of valve is sort of like one on Gunther Bettinger's web site bettingue.blogspot.com, but built with the odds and ends I had on hand. I can't discard a CD player or other piece of mechanical or electrical devise without gutting it for "spare parts", and I feel like I'm recycling at the most efficient level, by re-using parts in their original form for a different purpose. I knew I had that 2.5mm shaft and two tiny bushes that I broke out of the plastic carriage, and they slide very nicely with just about the right distance for full opening and closing.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-10.jpg)
The valve carrier needed an extention to meet with the lever and to give both a connection to the actuation lever, which will be a pin through a hole, and a place for a spring to press against, to keep the valve in contact with the head. I found a spring clip from a pocket knife which had some three tiny #1-56 screws, so the valve carrier got drilled and tapped for the three screws, and the spring clip installed. It is cut off later, when the lever is in place to give a good place to cut it off at
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-9.jpg)
with a stanchion in place on the crank structure, a bushing is turned to fit over it, with end clearance for the E-clip which will hold the lever in place. The bushing is turned with a 5/16ths bore, a 1/2 in o.d., and a 7/16ths step and shoulder for the lever to press onto, establishing its place relative to the cam shaft, and the valve carrier.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-9.jpg)
turning the shoulder on the bushing
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-7.jpg)
cutting off the bushing, I chucked it lightly after cutting off and trimmed it to proper length
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-7.jpg)
the valve lever blank is a piece of 1/4 by one inch 6061, step drilled for the bushing, up to the 7/16ths as I don't have that size reamer, the last two drills were only a fifteen thousandths under and apart, so the hole came out dead on size with the final drill
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-7.jpg)
Once the pivot hole was established, I measured from the pivot to the mainshaft, and eyeballed the offset for the cam roller pin, putting it as close to the edge as good engineering allows. The roller is a bearing with a 3/16ths i.d., and a 1/2 in o.d. The pin is a rod bearing roller from a Harley rod loose bearing set, .0002 oversized, for a press fit.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-7.jpg)
once the holes were in place, I cut off the excess with my bandsaw, and filed to a fine finish. The valve end is still to be cut to length, a pin put in the end, to fit in a hole to be drilled in the valve carrier extention, and a small coil spring on the pin to provide pressure on the end of that extention, and keep the valve face against the head, while the valve moves. The end of the arm needs enough cut off to make room for the spring, with the end milled flat to be drilled for a pin about 3/4 in long to both move the valve, and carry the coil spring.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-7.jpg)
the almost completed valve operating lever with bushing and cam follower bearing in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-7.jpg)
the valve lever in place on the engine
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-8.jpg)
a side view of the lever in place. Now that this is done, I can calculate where the pin must go in the lever, where the hole in the valve carrier extention must go to match the pin, and then turn a cam with provisions for adjusting valve opening and timing, an adjustable cam if you will. Not to be confused with the variable cam timing put in Nick's car, which seems to be a really bugger of a problem. Hopefully this answered some questions, and opened up some new questions, one can at least hope :poke: :lol: mad jack
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I hope that pineapple isn't live
Will be used only if the engine doesn't run.
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Your last post answered several unasked questions Jack! :scratch:
You're doin' well. Keep on doin! :thumbup:
David D
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Coming together fine. I have not yet figured out which way it will stand when finished. That is, if it will be (cylinder) horizontal or vertical. Or at some angle. But the pieces look like they mean business! Sturdy and to the purpose, the way I'd like to build my engines :med: It's not missing much before the first smoke.
:wave:
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Hi Jack
Watching this build with allot of interest ,,,,,,,,, great stuff :thumbup:
Rob
Were dose the hand grenade go :scratch:
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Were dose the hand grenade go :scratch:
Anywhere it wants to, if ever it goes bang! :lol:
David D
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I have not commented yet Jack but I am following this build avidly. I love 'home mades' and how people get around the small problems.
Now for the comment.
Flame gulpers normally have very little power output, mostly 'gnat' power. So if you do start to have problems getting it to run, go on a lightening exercise on all the moving parts first, skin them down to the bare minimum.
John
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Olli, I was wondering that but found one of his previous posts with a sort of mock up position - think it's going to be angled but opposite to the duclose one if that makes sense?
Nick
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Hi all, thanks for all the interest and interesting comments, much appreciated. This engine has sort of decided its self how it would work, and what it will look like, but I've managed to get it to a point where I really like it, and it's close to eating some flame. I had to take my dog to the vet yesterday, he started limping the night before, and as it turned out it had nothing to do with the fibrous growth on his foot, but a torn ligament in his knee, so Buddy's on bed rest for about eight weeks. When I got home, I put him to bed, and went right to the shop and got started where I left off. It was hard to leave off the night before, so close, however it was good to know exactly where to start.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-12.jpg)
having played with the valve lever I knew where I wanted the pin to be, so I set the lever up in the mill vise, centered a #1 center drill by eye, drilled, and then drilled the hole 1/16th, about half an inch deep at what I think is a good angle.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-10.jpg)
when it is running, I expect to mill out some of the lever and "skeletonize" it, for lighter weight and looks
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-10.jpg)
with the lever in place, I was able to establish the place for the hole for the pin in the valve carrier extention, and drill with some wiggling of the extention in the direction the pin will angle during valve actuation, the pin is in place, with a piece of spring cut from a bic lighter flint spring, cut to length
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-8.jpg)
after playing with the valve for a while, I laid the "engine" on my pad of paper, sketched around it with a pencil, then without the engine, cleaned up the lines and curves, cut out the paper pattern, and copied it onto the 1/8th in aluminum with a marker, then put the plate on the bandsaw to cut out the first side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-8.jpg)
The bandsaw, standing in the middle of much of the scrap it produces, going on twenty five years, rebuilt the first week I had it, and running with only a few repairs along the way, and Chinese :lol:
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-8.jpg)
the second side, traced from the first
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-8.jpg)
after cutting the second side, setting up in the mill to get the bases even and straight
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-8.jpg)
clamps in place to minimize vibration, taking about a 15 thousandths cut off the bottom of both sides together
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-8.jpg)
the end of the cut, fifteen was enough, no rough edge left on either side
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-9.jpg)
having taken the clamped together plates and cleaned up the profile with a six by 48 in belt sander, I scribed a line on one side and marked out the mount holes for the cylinder assembly, then drilled two holes through both on my small drill press, reserved for high speed, note the chuck key return arrangement, it was on the press when I bought it at a yard sale, a great idea for keeping the chuck key
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-7.jpg)
having drilled the first two holes, which are the same on both sides, now drilling two more holes which are only on one side, just the breaks of using recycled pieces for a mounting
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-7.jpg)
the second side plate interfered with the valve lever a bit, so it got a hole drilled, two cuts on the bandsaw leaving a triangle cut with a radius top, and with a round file in the filing machine, cleaning up the burrs and ugly of the saw cuts, and radiusing the cuts to match the overall flow. The filing machine is from Metal Lathe Accessories, and is a very nice well designed machine, invaluable for profiling the thin metal especially
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-6.jpg)
Both sides bolted on, now I get to see live, what I've been trying to see in my head for a while.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-6.jpg)
another side view with the valve gear easily seen
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-5.jpg)
the other side, mostly a view of the flywheel, but looking pretty much like I want
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0020-5.jpg)
here's a shot of the head end, where the flame will be
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-5.jpg)
looking straight in at the head, now I have to concoct a cam, having played with the valve lever and measured between the cam roller and a 5/8ths in bearing I slid on the shaft to act as the minimum diameter and baseline for the cam
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-5.jpg)
one last shot, the port is 5/8ths diameter, the bore is 3/4 in, with an inch and a half stroke, the valve is 7/8ths in diameter moving up to open. I've got to try to do some adjusting on a friend's Volkswagon fuel injection, by ear since I don't have diagnostic equipment, so hopefully it will go smooth, and I can get a cam turned, and maybe be able to put flame to this eater. Thanks for watching, for the advice, and for all the interesting comments. I really enjoy the presence of friends and aquaintences participating in such a build, and enjoy being among the audience as well. Almost feels like a club, I wish I could invite you all to visit, and could return the invite myself. :headbang: :thumbup:mad jack
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Looks good Madjack, a good design as the flame will naturally be going up into the cylinder and the valve mechanism looks like it will give low friction so long as it keeps sliding nicely on those sintered bushes. The one slight concern I would have is the size of the port relative to the bore, will it create a high enough velocity when it's sucking in the flame - may well do in this configuration as it's got the right angle, also, will you get a flame big enough so as not to suck cool air in.
I'll be willing it on, really hope it runs - good luck. If I was a betting man, I'd put a few quid on this one running straight away having learnt from your previous flame eater. :thumbup:
Nick
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Hi all, didn't get much done yesterday, too much fiddling with fuel injection in a VW, and messing with dragging brake pads on another friend's front end. I did get a cam blank machined though, and today I should be able to get some actual angles on it, and see about opening and closing that valve on time, and then fixing the engine to a nice piece of old oak or walnut. I wouldn't mind actually getting it to run today, but that's a "what if", and not a goal, just chance. I've got an idea regarding flames, resonant chambers and the possibility of making such things work to improve the amount of heat actually taken in by such engines, so I deliberately made the port huge. We shall see how it all shakes out. More pictures will be posted, didn't take enough yesterday to remember to bring home the camera. When you run across a piece of aluminum bronze, cherish it like gold, nothing machines quite like it, and no other bronze is quite as strong and hard, so it is very nice to have, that's what the chunk of unknown bronze I made the cam blank turned out to be, much better than the brass I thought I was falling back on, if you know what I mean. Ta ta for now, :poke: mad jack
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Hi all, yesterday was interesting, I got the cam machined, I think it's pretty close to right, but not certain yet, and spent the evening playing with the engine while trying to get the cam to just the right place to do what it needs to do.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-13.jpg)
turning the hub o.d. to the minimal size of the cam actuating lobe
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-11.jpg)
I turned to calculated o.d. for the lobe, and now I'm cutting off the cam trying to save the bit of shaft that is left
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-11.jpg)
I put the cam blank in the milling vise, milled off a straight edge down to the hub
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-11.jpg)
using the swag method, I rotated the cam blank to what looks to be a good angle, and milled again, down to the hub, leaving a couple thousandths for final filing fit
with swarf out of the way, using a wiggler to center the hub for a set screw, or grub screw if you prefer
hub centered
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-9.jpg)
hub centered, center drilled and tap drilled, tapping it for #4-40 set screw
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-9.jpg)
one set screw is an invitation for vibration loosening, so the cam is turned to put another set screw in, now needing centering again, with the wiggler
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-9.jpg)
Centered, drilling with a center drill
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-9.jpg)
drilling tapping size, after center drilling, for the second set screw, then tapping as per the first one
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-9.jpg)
After tapping the second set screw hole, I milled off the sharp point where the two milled flats forming the angle of the cam meet up, to minimize filing
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-10.jpg)
moving the cam by eye, then milling off the sharp corner which will be filed to a radius for the actuating arm to follow
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-8.jpg)
milling off the other corner
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-8.jpg)
the corner, after milling it down thirty five thousandths
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-7.jpg)
while on the mill, centering up the flywheel for its second set screw
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-7.jpg)
the other edge of the flywheel touched off with the wiggler
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-6.jpg)
hub centered, note the extra long center drill to reach the hub past the flywheel
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-5.jpg)
center drilled and drilled, the tap barely clears the top of the wheel, extreme care keeping the tap in proper alignment
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-6.jpg)
when the tap wrench no longer reaches, my four inch crescent wrench comes in handy to complete the tapping operation, never leave home without it, but don't take it to airports
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0020-6.jpg)
back to the cam, with the rough cam in the vise on the bench, the center is carefully filed down with my finest files, to the hub, matching the radius, and putting a radius of "good proportion" on the corner
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0021-5.jpg)
another view of the cam in the bench vise
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0022-3.jpg)
the cam, ready for initial installation
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-6.jpg)
and the cam, finally installed on the mainshaft, now comes the hard part, timing with no specs. I've spent the rest of the evening moving it around, while comparing valve and piston movement with that of my Duclos flame sucker, having milled the cam a bit more before closing down the shop, because the valve was open too long, I seem to have the timing pretty close, and having gone through my box of miscellaneous springs, I think I will have to wind one, as so far, none seems to fit either being too strong, or too weak. I think I will try a coiled tangential spring, around the pivot of the lever, with an arm against the lever, and the other arm against some adjusting arm of some sort, so I can vary the pressure on the valve. I've got some music wire which I think will be about right in size to give good tension, and Herr Bettinger uses such to act as a throttle on some of his flamenfergessen's (flame eaters). I hope today to have a solid base, a burner with enough flame, and maybe a running engine, touch wood as Nick would say. I think I have a piece of oak begging to be a part of this piece of work and I like oak. Ta ta for now, mad jack
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Great work on the cam Jack, I think the poppin one is a similar shape. Can't wait - I'll be listening out for it in my sleep then checking again tomorrow at work!
Nick
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Great work Jack looking real well.
Are you going to convert that grenade into the burner :headbang: :nrocks:
Stew
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Looking good Jack :thumbup: - you're near to firing it up now :D
:beer:, Arnold
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Hi guys, and thanks, as to using the pineapple for a flame source, I think I'll reserve that option for the slim possibility I don't get it to run, and then it will be one big flame. On the other hand, it might need a big flame :lol:
Yesterday, I had to go into the woods to get some firewood and I hit the wetlands part, being dry this time of year, and planned on just picking up a hundred pounds or so of down dead wood. I call this part of the property, "Medusa's Vineyard", mainly because it has about a couple dozen trees and a hundred miles of vines in about two acres. Those lopping shears are four inch, and they only cut the small vines, I had to use the chain saw for the vines more than my wrist size.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-14.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-12.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-10.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-10.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-12.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-12.jpg)
I got my wood, spent a couple hours killing vines, and looking at the ones which swoop up a hundred feet and are too big to cut without the chainsaw. Ice storm coming so wood is good.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-10.jpg)
having removed the valve actuating arm to mill out the excess, and to figure out spring mounting, making some chips as I lighten it up
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-10.jpg)
I mounted a four by four by eight toolmaker's block in my vise to give a solid base to clamp the arm to, and still move it easily.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-10.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-10.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-11.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-9.jpg)
I'm using a .250 carbide end mill at about 2200, and profiling the holes by eye, the cutter makes quick work of the .250 thick aluminum
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-9.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-8.jpg)
plunging in for the other angle of the hole
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-7.jpg)
finishing up the holes
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-6.jpg)
cleaning up the final shape on the filing machine, it is great for "pierced work", and the kit was easy to build, nice and solid castings, top quality metal fine tool well worth the work to build.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-7.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0020-7.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0022-4.jpg)
showing the rough leavings of the mill, didn't want to stray too far, that cutter leaves no room for error
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0023-7.jpg)
with the holes to shape and done, thinning out the valve end where the spring wire operates the valve carrier
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0024-6.jpg)
with a half in carbide ball mill, making the radius to end the thin portion
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0025-5.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0026-4.jpg)
changed over to a fly cutter to take out the bulk and leave a nice finish
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0027-5.jpg)
down to the last cut, finish thickness, change back to the ball mill to match both depth and clean up the transition
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0028-3.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0030-3.jpg)
last cuts with the ball mill
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0031-5.jpg)
after cleanup and deburring, back in the mill vise for drilling for the spring, center drilling with a #1
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0032-2.jpg)
drilling out to .062, down until I see bronze, and then stop
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0033-2.jpg)
the lever, finished, deburred, and ready to go back on
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0034-2.jpg)
another view
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0035-1.jpg)
the lever back on it's spindle
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0036-2.jpg)
valve carrier back on, engine back together
I used my small burner for my Duclos flame sucker but it is way too small and didn't even get a pop out of it, but the engine needs to be mounted, and a proper sized flame provided, so that will have to be next. I still have only timed it by eye, and suspect I probably need to play with that as well, but everything seems to move right, and smoothly, I get to go to the doctor's today, my neurologist wants me to have a "regular doctor", and doesn't like my answer when I tell him I don't have anything wrong with me except the bloody M.S., he says everyone needs a "general doctor". Maybe this doctor will be willing to take the piece of swarf out of my foot my wife won't cut deep enough to get, and I can't reach myself. Thanks for watching, commenting, and the advice, it is all appreciated :headbang: mad jack
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Well, having played with my flame sucker, without even a hint of action, I've concluded the port is way too big, and there is too much friction in the valve action, moving the valve over such a large port. I didn't like my alternate choices of material, so I decided to bore out the head, machine an oversized plug to press in, and then put a proper sized port in, with a new cam and valve.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-8.jpg)
the head was bored, a plug cut .001 oversized and pressed in place with loctite stud and bearing mount
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0016-9.jpg)
facing off the stub of the plug
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-10.jpg)
facing off the last couple thousandths
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-8.jpg)
head faced off, drilled, reamed out for .375
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-7.jpg)
taper turned in port to improve heat retention of the head
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-13.jpg)
on to the burner, centering the spindle over the pipe fitting for drilling the wick tube
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-13.jpg)
center drilling
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-13.jpg)
hole drilled, ready for soldering
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-11.jpg)
a piece of solder was cut to fit inside the fitting, it set on a cleaned piece of sheet brass, and heated till the solder flowed all around and wicked out
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-11.jpg)
the wick tube soldered in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-11.jpg)
turning a cover from some brass rod, one inch in dia.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-11.jpg)
turning a shoulder for knurling
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-11.jpg)
knurling the shoulder
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-11.jpg)
radiusing the top, using a rod with points on both ends, each fitting in a punch mark, one on the head stock, the other on the cross slide, holding the carriage toward the head stock and letting the movement of the cross slide follow the radius rod, and moving the carriage away from the headstock as the tool comes to center.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-11.jpg)
a view from the top, note the radius rod down below the chuck
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-12.jpg)
the radius rod, I've made different ones for different radii, the key is cutting slowly, and keeping pressure on the carriage against the rod
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-10.jpg)
the burner complete, now I need to turn a slightly different cam, and turn down the o.d. of the valve, to fit the smaller port and reduce the total movement of the valve train, allowing for a lighter spring tension hopefully getting this engine running. With a bit of luck the engine should run today, but we shall see. Thanks for watching, mad jack
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Better luck, this time Jack! :thumbup:
David D
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Good luck -you will get it
If you have a moment could we see some pics of your die filer that would make a great preoject
Gerhard
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lever looks good Jack in fact it all looks good. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
I'm sure you'll soon hace it running
Stew
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Jack,
Pity it didn't run first time but I don't think these things ever do!! I'm sure it'll have a better chance with the modifications you have done though. I'm having reservations about mine being able to run now, even though it is supposedly easier to get poppin to run! They really are finicky little things, or in your case finicky big thing!
Good luck, think you're there though. Lightened lever looks great by the way.
Nick
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Hi all, appreciate the comments Stew, Gerhard, David, and Nick, I'm glad someone wants some pics of the die filer, I bought the kit, took a rather short time to build it, and have used in quite a bit since, and it is a very nice addition to the shop. I will go through the drawings and post what I can, and take some pictures, and post a log on it in the machine section, and link to you, Gerhard.
I had a short day yesterday, my 27th anniversary, spent most of the afternoon getting a 51 Harley pan head ready for its first start after a bike build, just about an hour's of niggling details and it's ready to fire up, but we spent about four hours on other "niggling details" yesterday, last wiring, fuel lines, oil lines, double checking everything, timing and the like, a good friend's bike, been down for four or five years, and has very few parts that ever ran together before. A 1937 frame, fifty one bottom end of the engine, 75 top end, that is heads cylinders and pistons, new carburetor 1930 something springer front end, and 1940 wheels and brakes (ugh), been in my shop for about three years kind of like a hobby shop garage for down and out mechanics. It would be running except the two years of ecconomic relief didn't include mechanics and motorcycle repair business, just wall street.
I got things sorted out pretty much on the flame eater, with the cam about in the right place, and with the right diameters and it should be close on the overall timing, but I think I need a bit larger valve cover, I think I turned the one I had, down about a sixteenth too small, making for a bad seal on the vacuum side. If this doesn't get things running, I think I will re-arrange the valve levers and see about inserting a "poppin" style valve train, and valve, as that seems to be about as light and minimal valve train possible for such and engine and I think I'm getting the oil on my sliding valve carrier sticky from getting too hot. It stays in the flame, open and closed, and probably shouldn't. I really like the way the "poppin" valve gets totally out of the flame when it's open, and only exposed to it during the short cycle while closed, and able to dissapate heat into the head. Thanks again for looking and for comments, and I think you will enjoy the die filing machine write up, I know I would be kicking myself if I hadn't built it, I tried many cheap and easy ways around it, but none were sturdy enough and solid, to give a squared off finish, and to keep going without dying on the filings. On top of all that, I've got a great wife, she's happy we didn't go anywhere so she didn't have to get dressed up, and she enjoyed the Chinese I went and got, from our favorite Chinese takeout, about an hour away, some things are a bit away when you live out where the deer and the bears play. It's good to have a wife that puts up with all our kind of mess, and doesn't want to get all dolled up on an anniversary and was ready to come out and cheer if she heard the sound of that Harley fire up. :beer: cheers mad jack
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Hiya Mad Jack :wave:
Dunno how I missed this thread. Nice work! The pictures are excellent. Now that I have read this thread from beginning to end in one shot, I am anxious to see it run.
BTW... Happy Anniversary!
Eric
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Thanks for all the kind remarks, this has been a challenge, trying to apply several different ideas into one engine has meant lots of learning. The sliding valve worked great, but the heat burned the oil and caused the slider to stick, so I chose to go with a piece of spring steel pivoting on a spring loaded screw, a leaf from a feeler gauge found on the bench, about .013 thick, punched a hole for the pivot, used a hacksaw blade with the gauge in a vise to cut a slot for the pin to ride in, and drilled and tapped a #4-40 hole in the head for it to pivot on.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-11.jpg)
it's the same pin which moved the slider up and down, but I had to change out the roller on the arm, as the pin was in the wrong position for the valve to close, so I found another ball bearing, .750 o.d. .250 i.d., replacing a .625 o.d. .1875 i.d., and had to turn a pin with a shoulder to hold the new bearing.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-12.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-13.jpg)
old and new bearing with pins in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-11.jpg)
another view of them
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-9.jpg)
here's another view of the engine with its new valve, still not running, but I need to alter the cam, I think it's open too long, not getting enough of a power stroke. I will be doing some work on it today, and hopefully getting somewhere. If this valve arangement doesn't do the trick, I think I will coble together a version of the "poppin" valve set up, as it seems to be about the most effective and least presumptuous with regard to stealing power. This engine is going to run if I have to put another cam, two pushrods and a spark plug on it, one way or another. So on to another round of modifications, and trials. Ta ta for now, mad jack
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Hi mad jack, your new valve looks good, having just finished popping I can say the thin valve works well giving a good seal. I was worried my valve wouldn't be shut long enough but then realised on poppin that the only timing that really matters was the point at which the valve shuts since on poppin the valve is not forcibly opened by the cam. Only by spring pressure. But if there Is still a low pressure in the cylinder it will stay shut until it needs to open when there is an over pressure. On yours i noticed your cam operates In opposite way. It forces the valve open. I know the geometry won,t be right but If the ARM was on top of the cam it would shut the valve at a chosen time but with a sufficiently light spring pressure it wpuld, in effect be automatically openef when required. Hope this helps, trying to do it from the wife phone so apologies if it doesn,t make much sense I can hardly see the trxt!
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Hi Nick, all, as a matter of fact, I'm going to be putting a valve set up very much like the poppin on this engine, the only difference will be the means of mounting the pivot, it will work exactly the same. What you said about the cam closing the valve, and letting nature open it, Nick, struck home, and that, along with almost getting it running, using a propane torch for heat, told me I was close, with it almost running, but would never get there with the valve arangement as it was. having the engine supported by an aluminum plate, right behind the head also meant substantial heat was being transfered to the frame without doing any work, so I'm moving it to the other end of the cylinder, which should be an improvement as well. Being a bit larger than "poppin" I'm going to try a piece of .004 leaf gauge, but other than that, it will be a "poppin" valve train all the way, and maybe I get to see it run finally. I've even got a nice piece of the brown stuff already selected and ready to clean up for the base, so it has to work, right? :lol: mad jack
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I thought you may be able to just make a modified arm / sort of bell crank with roller to sit on top of the cam and therefore close the valve and let nature open it as you say.
Not sure about moving the frame, it may help but I think these engines differ in that it's the hot gas that gets drawn in, once it's in there, more mass will surely help cool the gas. Hope it helps though and your plans to lighten the centre of your flywheel concentrating mass more around the edge is sure to help.
Once you've nearly got it running though you can't be far away. I think utilising a recognised working valve train will give it the best chance and if you've found some nice brown stuff it can't fail! :lol:
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Hi all, been to the doctor for a couple of days, and gathering wood before that, been a bit cold in the shop, but I've got a good bit done in bits and pieces, so here's where it sits.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-15.jpg)
With a ten hole bolt circle, and the front end indexed 90 degrees from the back end, I had to make a new mount for the cylinder, and made it from a scrap of stainless I scrounged from a photo printing machine. It was pre-bent, so I just had to cut it to length, cut one side to match the other, drill the hole circle and center hole for the piston to go through, and put some holes to hold the piece of stainless shaft I'm going to use for the valve train pivot, re-using the setup which got sticky when it was sliding the valve up and down.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-15.jpg)
the cylinder and crank standard mounted, and the new pivot bar mounted, with the bushings pushed out of the deleted parts not used.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-15.jpg)
another view, showing the pivot bar relationship with the cam and the head
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-13.jpg)
the head end, all cleaned up, ready for the new setup. I broke off a head bolt taking it apart, so I had to weld a bit of stainless rod to the broken end, and extract it, then lap the head surface of the cylinder, lapped the head just for good measure, too.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-13.jpg)
I was going to find a piece of aluminum and machine out everything that didn't look like valve gear, but thought maybe I'd fettle up this engine a bit, with some shiny parts, made of brass and the like, so I collected my box of brass tubing, and a small .125 bore ball bearing for the cam roller
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-13.jpg)
cutting off the tubing which will be the body of the valve train, to length, squaring both ends.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-13.jpg)
with a piece of tubing the right i.d. for the bushings, and a small piece of square brass tubing, filed to a fillet for the tube, at an angle putting the end closer to the cam, I'm using a fly tying vise to hold the square tubing while the main tube rests on a graphite square which came out of a water pump which died, and left its body to model engineering. It's a good thermal barrier from the steel table, and cleans off easily, good for soldering on. Everything was cleaned with steel wool before soldering, but my first bit of solder was old and the rosin dried up, so it didn't come out as clean as it should have.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-13.jpg)
having pressed an .125 pin in the bearing, I'm soldering a piece of tube where the roller goes on the lever arm, the pin to be loctited into the tube later.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-13.jpg)
Bits and bobs attached to each other, with bushings locktited in the tube, and the roller put in its place, I was going to use the brass channel, but opted for a corner of the brass plate as sturdier, and offering more room for threads.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-13.jpg)
the brass plate with a tap sized hole in the corner, ready to have the corner cut off on the bandsaw
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-14.jpg)
the cut off corner in a vise, the cut edge being filed straight and cleaning off burrs
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0013-12.jpg)
rounding off the corner to make it pretty when soldered in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0014-12.jpg)
the triangular piece held in place with some twisted safety wire, ready for soldering to the main tube
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0015-10.jpg)
having tapped the #0-80 hole in the soldered on brass plate, getting ready to file down the ends of some .062 drill rod to thread for #0-80 for the valve rod, as per the "poppin" set up.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0017-9.jpg)
the other end of my tailstock die holder, and the shaft it rides on, fuel pump rod for a Chevy V-8, hardened, mike's out at .500, after a couple hundred thousand miles
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0018-8.jpg)
threading the first end of the rod
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0019-8.jpg)
threading the second end, longer, to make enough room for adjusting the valve plate. I had to tighten up my die and get the threads a bit smaller, so everything would fit, now I've got to make some nuts to attach the valve rod to the train, and the valve plate to the end of the rod, and set up a spring to open the valve, so that's the plan for today, and maybe it can be tested when all is done. Thanks for watching, for the advise, and maybe it will run this time around and I can get to the brown stuff, as John wood say. :lol: ta ta for now, mad jack
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Great work Madjack, am feeling more confident about this now. Can't wait to see more.
Nick
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Well all, and particularly you, Nick, I've got more pictures to show.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0001-18.jpg)
the end of the shop where the brown stuff is piled, this small pile is for the next few days of heat.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-16.jpg)
having center drilled with a #1 center drill, I then drilled a .050 tapping hole for the #0-80 nuts to be made, drilling the full length of the flutes in both ends of a piece of .250 brass rod, about an inch and a half long, and tapping as deep as the tap will go
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-16.jpg)
drilling and tapping the other end of the brass rod
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-16.jpg)
using a hex 5C collet holder, I set up the brass rod in a .250 collet, with the tap thread length sticking out and a vise stop to set a repeatable placing as I turn the collet holder. I'm taking a total of .100 thousandths off, to end up with .150 hex nuts, in two cuts, .035 followed by .015
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0005-14.jpg)
taking the second cut on the first end
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0006-14.jpg)
first end done, deburred, and ready to cut the second end
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0007-14.jpg)
first cuts on the second end, same numbers
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0008-14.jpg)
second cuts on the second end, hexes measure out to .150 as desired
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0009-14.jpg)
using my DRO, setting up to cut off nuts, .100 long for each, with a .045 fin cutting tool
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0010-14.jpg)
after cutting off the first nut, I can tap deeper and get more thread in the brass rod
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0011-14.jpg)
tapping deeper to the bottom of the drilled hole, after the third nut was cut off, I'll probably need #0-80 nuts in the future
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0012-15.jpg)
half a dozen #0-80 nuts ready to be cleaned up, used to lock the valve shaft, threaded already, in place, and to hold the valve to the shaft. I got so excited about getting it in place before dinner call, I didn't take pictures of assembling the valve shaft and valve, but I did get a video, which I am about to download, and see if I can post. It is a running engine now, and ready for some brown stuff to finish off the job. I'm posting this now, as I'm not sure how long the video will take to download, but will post it immediately thereafter. I wish I had gotten some pictures of the valve in place, but you will see it as it operates in the video. :beer: cheers from an ecstatic engineer, watching and listening to my new engine run. :nrocks:
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Congratualtions Jack you should be rightly pround of your work.
Can't wait to see a vid
Well Done
Stew
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Well, folks, here goes:
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/th__0013-13.jpg) (http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/?action=view¤t=_0013-13.mp4)
The odd ball flame sucker, almost all spare parts from the scrap heap, with the iron and the screws as the only "bought" parts. Some parts flew in Marine Helicopters, some ran in lawn tractors, and some came out of boxes in yard sales - recycling at its most efficient :lol: :ddb: :nrocks: mad jack, ready for the noon day sun :headbang:
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Hi all, I reckon I'm going to have to figure out how to post videos on this site, a click on the picture takes you to my photobucket, and it runs there, but I thought it would be a running video here by using photobucket. Note, the fire is from my Duclos flame sucker, which runs well now, and this engine needs a lower flame, due to the placement of the port, and I've made some cam timing adjustments, advancing it, and it is running about three times as fast, but catching the wick of the burner, so I definitely will have a new burner, fit to the brown stuff, and matched to the port for maximum effect. Any aid in getting a video actually posted here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all for comments and suggestions, Nick thanks for getting your "poppin" going, and getting me in that direction for the valve train, making all the difference. I'll do some more to finish it up and fettle it up a bit, and hopefully post a better video tomorrow. I've enjoyed having you all over to my shop these last days, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, like I've got friends :lol: imagine, a Marine with friends :poke: kind of like a Sailor without a potty mouth.
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:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: thats great Jack :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Rob
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Great work Jack :clap: :clap: :clap:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
:nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:
:ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Well done that man.
Now all you have to do is catch the Duck
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Stew
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excellent!!
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:D :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :nrocks:
Well done Jack, massive achievement designing and getting to work your own flame sucker.
Can't wait to see the video!
Oh, I missed page 6!!! Absolutely brilliant, the feeling is immense!
Photobucket seems to do that - so I have started using u tube for my vids so it embeds them, not sure whether you can or how to do it with photobucket.
Nick :bow: :thumbup:
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My two year old thought it sounded like a duck as well! :lol: Mine was a little like that but it's gradually bent the valve, I think it's the very thin valve causing the sound or air being sucked past the thin valve!
Superb, runs really nice and slow so you can see what's happening too. I like that about the Jan ridders one, the poppin just has a mind of it's own and accelerates until it gets valve bounce sometimes!
Well done again, love it!
Nick
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Just love the sound of that :lol: :lol: :lol:
Great job :)
Bill
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Looks nice, does have that Duck Toot sound, made the ol dog perk an ear up.
I like it
Robert
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Well done Mad Jack :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
Knew you would get it !!!!
Gerhard
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:nrocks:
I love it!
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Oh my...what a "unique" sounding engine you have there. What kind of "gas" does it run on? :lol:
Love it. Great work...especially a design all your own. Congrats!
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Love it! Love it! Love it! Love it! Love it!
Jack...... What a great success that engine is! "Correct" revs, and unique sound! :clap:
I've been a little quiet recently. But that's put a big grin on my face. Can't imagine what it's done to yours! :D
Blummin well done mate! :thumbup:
David D
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:D :D Great stuff Jack - Well Done! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:lol: I'll be having a repeat of the sound from now on; the parrot was sitting on my shoulder when I watched the video...
:beer:, Arnold
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Glad to see the video. Spent the afternoon re-reading the entire thread. Great job, Jack!
Chuck in E. TN
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Absolutely a great runner Jack. :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
You should bottle that sound and sell it, you would make a fortune from duck hunters.
John
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Hi Jack, sorry for not having posted anything in a while, RL tends to interfere with hobbies sometimes. That sure is a nice engine! It sounds more alive than anything I've witnessed so far. "Alive" meaning ducks or geese :lol:
We have some ducks and geese here, loitering around, and making a hideous mess. And 6 dogs that mostly get along just fine with them (the do steal an occasional egg, and the geese are furious). My German shepherd was listening to your engine, head tilted, and obviously trying to figure out where the goose was hiding itself...
The engine seems to make some 100-120 rpm, and it sounds like it will do that "forever". Or at least as long as there is a flame to feed it. Thereīs metal enough at the cold end to keep it cool enough. That's a sound design, and proper materials everywhere. Now you have a Duck-less (Duclos) and a Duck engine... :clap:
:beer: :wave:
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Hi Olli, all, well, getting it running was first, but it needed its own burner, to keep the wick out of the valve reed, so I took an extra bezel from a door lock, set it on fire to burn off all the laquer which was coating it, having saved it for just such an occasion, as I can't throw away bits of brass or anything which looks like it could be built into something, scrubbed off the burnt laquer and with a piece of kick plate from an old front door, made a round disc for a bottom, cleaned everything up well, painted it with Nocorrode soldering flux, got out my Sn63/37 Eutectic solder, heated the plate with a very small torch, and soldered the plate in place
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-17.jpg)
I mention the solder because it is designed for perfect solder joints in high tech electronics, and it is the easiest alloy to use for soft soldering, as it melts at a low temperature, and flows like water, when everything is clean and well fluxed. It's more expensive than plumbing solder, because of the higher tin content, but well worth the difference because it behaves so well.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-17.jpg)
this is a top view, I also drilled a hole in the side, close up to the top, and inserted a piece of brass tube to hold the wick at the right height, and since the top is recessed, with a lip inside, I took another piece of kickplate brass, about .030 thick, cut a circle which would drop in the recess and sit on the lip, drilled a .062 hole in it, and soldered in a short piece of tubing in to act as both a vent and something to grip to remove the lid, with it just setting in place.
I'm trying to down load a new video which shows the engine running after getting warmed up. I put a piece of reflective tape on the flywheel so my lazer tach reads, and it runs about 275 rpm while warming up and quacking, but once it is warm, it goes up as high as 670 rpm, and sounds like the clatter of a loose engine, as the valve plate springs open and closed, with the vacuum determining the time of valve opening, letting the valve gear loose all at once, each cycle. It doesn't much quack once it gets going, I believe that is the valve reed quacking as the excess air is pushed past it, like a musical reed, while it is cold enough to hold in place and fully follow the cam with the moisture generated sealing the reed tightly forcing the engine to forcibly pull the valve loose, and produce the duck I can't find.
I started it with the cam where it seemed it ought to go, but once it was warmed, it needed much more advance, and now is hard starting, cold, but runs much stronger and faster once warmed up. I started with a .004 brass feeler gauge reed which made for easy starts, because of a great seal, even cold, but ended up flapping like a piece of paper when the engine was hot, and grabbing the wick of the burner and pulling it in closer to the engine, and blocking the port closing. I now have a .006 inch steel feeler gauge valve which is a bit stiffer, harder to start, but will hold up better when hot.
The use of "the poppin'" valve set up is what allowed me to get this engine to run, along with moving the mount behind the cylinder, and changing the dynamics of the heat. The head and cylinder will get quite hot while running, but it will run nicely for ten or fifteen minutes or more but ending up needing cleaning out of residue left from burning oil and moisture, a quick spray of WD-40 washes it all out, and wipes off the goo. The crank standard, aluminum and mounted to the cylinder rear also gets quite hot, and the stainless steel mount plate, inserted between standard and cylinder, isolates the heat from the aluminum side plates which hold up the engine, something that would be better in aluminum to provide better cooling. With a stainless steel plate behind the head, I suspect the engine would have run in that set up, but the aluminum mount I had transferred the heat from the head and cylinder too fast I believe.
All in all, a very satisfying project as a first engine of my own design and I've learned a lot about the cams, advance, and other aspects of these small atmospheric engines, and will be building more with the knowledge gained here.
http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/?action=view¤t=_0005-15.mp4
Here's a thirty second clip of it running at temperature with its very own burner.
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Brilliant Madjack. Running superbly there. My thinnest feeler gauge was 0.05 I think so it was probably by luck that I've been forced into using that. I can imagine 0.002" as called for on the drawing for poppin being way too thin!
Just out of interest, do your burners get hot?
After about 15 mins of mine being lit I touched it and though crikey that's hot - I could touch it so am guessing it was about 60 Deg C? But safety wise, is that acceptable - it's not likely to cause the alcohol to flash off at that point is it? It certainly evaporates off, if you leave any in you can forget about any being there the next time you try to run it!
Have I done something wrong in the design of mine? Should I knife edge the tube or something or get a thinner tube?
Well done again, it's often difficult enough to get these to run to a tried and tested design, let alone your own design.
Nick
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Hi Nick, Olli, John and all, I expect this will close out this project, it is complete, it runs, and while it may get a bit of "fettling up" as you Brits say, I don't see major changes.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0002-18.jpg)
Here's a picture of the finished burner, Nick it does get quite warm after a long run, and I have lifted the lid and had a flame pop up, but it went out when I dropped the top plate. Not enough wick sticking out will keep the flame close to the tube, but most of the heat is probably reflected from the engine.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0003-18.jpg)
Here's a picture of the engine running, close up on the valve gear
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/_0004-17.jpg)
another shot of the valve gear and the engine running
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/th__0001-19.jpg) (http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/madjackghengis/?action=view¤t=_0001-19.mp4)
and another video of the engine running at speed.
I guess you have to click on the picture to see it run, it's running about 370 rpm, it's normal regular speed, I've replaced the brass reed with a six thousandths steel reed, and in testing the cam timing, gotten it up to about 760 rpm, with the reed flapping like a flag in the breeze, catching the wick and pulling the burner into the engine, and ultimately pulling a dent in the reed valve from vacuum, while running with the reed in the full heat of the flame and soft. Ultimately, I want to put a butane burner for this, so it is easily adjustable for speed, and maybe a small generator to put a load on it, so I can run it hard without getting the mad velocity which lets the parts get out of control and self destruct. This has been a very interesting and profitable learning project, and I hope all of you enjoyed watching as much as I enjoyed doing. Much thanks for the constant input of ideas and suggestions, there is always more to learn, and the wide variety from where we all arrive makes for many different ideas. :mmr: :nrocks: :beer: :lol: thanks for all this forum offers, mad jack
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Jack the mad one!
I have been following your thread from start to finish, a very good job well done sir!.
I enjoy your threads as you have a very unique way of solving problems and I have learned a lot from you. I wish you well on the next adventure and be sure I will be an ardent follower.
All the best. Anthony.
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Thanks much, Anthony, I can't say how much I learn reading through everyone else's logs. No truth to the idea you can't teach old dogs new tricks, I learn something new every day, or else I just cancel that day and pretend it didn't happen. Nick, with regard to your poppin, I suspect if you look, you will find the vacuum of your engine has pulled a dimple in the valve, I've pulled a brass .006 in valve to where it won't go flat, pulled a dimple in each of a .005, a .006 steel feeler gauge valve, and am finding I've only begun to tap the speed and power this design is capable of, having pulled apart the soldered together valve linkage, stripped the threads for the valve rod, out of the rocker arm, and am finding an .008 piece of gauge is going above seven hundred before it has time to even get warm. This engine has been a test bed far more than I intended, and is not gone away as a present as it was supposed to because of lessons both positive and negative, learned. I expect I will be posting on new valve train soon, as soldered together brass doesn't seem up to the high speed load of inertia. I'm trying to get a 51 harley out of the shop while getting this settled out, and both are challenging my attempts to be finished. I highly recomend anyone interested in flame suckers to go at it with a passion, and try anything that comes to mind and seems to make sense, after you've got the first one running, as they have far more potential than first appears. They are the direct predecessors of internal combustion engines, but there is much more to them than the simplest designs suggest. :ddb: :nrocks: mad jack
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Madjack,
Thanks for the analysis on the valves - I will have to take mine off (think it's 0.005") to have a look and see if there's a dimple- I have noticed that it seems sort of softer and a different noise to when I first assembled it. I still need to increase my spring pressure I think as if I put the flame in the position for most power it revs too high and gets valve bounce- it's not nice displaying it running like that anyway though! I might take that valve off over the weekend and maybe try some 0.008 then. I did wonder when I saw the drawings why they wanted the valve to be so thin - I can understand it seals better but it wouldn't last long at 0.002".
Love the motion pics - very nice.
Nick
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Thanks Nick, by the way, I'm using a piece of .008 right now and the engine easily goes into over-drive once warmed up and will reach a point where the vacuum holds the valve shut, and the engine will reverse and run four or five cycles backwards, till the valve pulls loose, and then start running forwards again until it does the same thing. I've got my cam down to about 95 degrees so vacuum holds the valve shut for the last eight or ten degrees of running, during normal speeds, and the flame I'm using is not much larger than that on the Duclos flamesucker, but it is enough to run the engine to its limit. I found if I spray it all over with WD-40 and spray some in the cylinder, flipping the flywheel to work it through the cylinder, it cleans out residue very well, cools off the very hot cylinder fins and head, and the next day the left over vapors make it start right up, as they eliminate the water vapor being condensed right off the bat. I think my head being almost a quarter inch thick makes it a cold starter, and thinning it would make it much easier to start. It should be the sixteenth the poppin' calls for probably. Having the stroke twice the bore makes for lots of vacuum, when its warmed up, but reduces the speed it naturally runs at I expect. It's .750 bore and inch and a half stroke, I think the next flame sucker I build will be much closer to "square", but I make such decisions in my sleep, going to bed with an idea, and waking up with a completely different take on it. :nrocks: :beer: cheers, mad jack