MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: Divided he ad on October 19, 2008, 06:53:02 PM
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Well today I started to do a little towards a project I've wanted to do for ages.
Now I know it is an engine of sorts but it is much more a toy in my book.... So it's going here!
Just a couple of photo's to explain what I am going to try to achive.
First photo it my new (old, but new to me) Toggle press... This should help me create the hemispheres that I will need to solder together to make the ball.
There are 3 Brit' coins on it for scale 1,2 and 5 pence pieces also to help you the surface table in the background is 18" square!!
And yes it was bloody heavy to lift 3.5' off the ground onto the bench un-assisted.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02242.jpg)
And then the blank cut, (on my new saw) faced off and tapped m14x1.5 ready for the arbour.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02244.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02249.jpg)
I know you didn't need to see the blank that I cut.... But it makes me happy to look at what the saw can do ;D
This blank is going to be made into a punch to be mounted on the press and then I need to make the die and I should be somewhere near making a hollow sphere?! :)
I know that there are others out there who like these things so I will do my best to log it properly.
Ralph.
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I'm liking it Ralph. :clap: :thumbup:
I'll bet that the ball turner is going to be involed with this some how? :D
Bernd
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For our Yank members: The tupence coin (2 pence coin on the right in Ralph's post) measures 1.018" diameter (yeah, I just measured one).
Ralph?
Are you going to make the dies to punch holes in the sphere? Just trying to get my head about the toggle press function.
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Oooooh! :clap: :clap: bout time!
Will watch this like a hawk.
Eric
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Bernd,
the ball turner will make it's apperance shortly :thumbup:
Rog',
the punch will be the 2" hemispere made from the large blank pictured above and the copper sheet will be annealed and laid onto the die..... Then pressed in one ( I think??) thump of the press...Thus creating half of the final ball!? Remember this is experimental.... I've never tried this before!?! ;D
Eric,
I told you I was going to have a go at this.... Don't expect rapid results.... I'm still getting my head around all this new machinery (lathe and mill included ;) ) Keep them eye's peeled..... (do you use this odd phrase over there? ... means keep an eye out.... Again odd phrase??!?? :o )
Ralph.
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Eric,
I told you I was going to have a go at this.... Don't expect rapid results.... I'm still getting my head around all this new machinery (lathe and mill included ;) ) Keep them eye's peeled..... (do you use this odd phrase over there? ... means keep an eye out.... Again odd phrase??!?? :o )
Ralph.
Never doubted you for a minute. Yup, that phrase was used quite a bit in the New England states when I lived up that way.
Eric
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Well here we go....
The first stage, I made the punch head tonight.
First the original punch from the press was re-designed ;)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02251.jpg)
Then made into the first of many threaded arbours.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02253.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02254.jpg)
Then the fun bit..... Set ball turner to maximum captain!!! (well very near the safe max' anyway)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02255.jpg)
And .... There you have it.... I filmed this... I'll edit it and post it somewhere... this was a hardened bar... sure was tough to machine!!!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/IMG_4769.jpg)
and fitted on the press...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02259.jpg)
it is a 48.8mm dia this alows for 18 gauge plate to be pressed giving a 50mm external measurement of the final sphere.... If I got my calcs right!!!??
Next make a die.... That should be interesting!!
Does anyone know how to figure the disc size required for the job? ... If it can't be easily mathmaticallty worked out I'll just trial and error it!!!
Ralph.
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very cool. I don't know how to calculate the disc size required, so no help there from me. Sorry.
But on the other hand, what a great start you got going there!
Eric
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I'd say trial and error method. ;D
Cut the blank way bigger than the die. Form part. While in the die you can sribe a line around the formed part then trim. Hope that isn't to confusing the way I wrote it. :-\
Bernd
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Eric, You have no idea how big the smile was when it all worked to plan :thumbup: ;D
Bernd.... Isn't that the Heath Robinson aproach?! I was thinking of ever decreasing discs until I find the size that will do it perfectly.... Just thinking about it i could have made it with a small shoulder on it so that a flat rim was left for soldering.... Oh well I'll figure something out ;)
A few sacrificial drinks cans will bite the bullet first.... there's no way I'm wasting the copper!!!
Just a thought as I sit here writhing this... A drink can whth a series of scribed circles on it at set intervals and see which one is closest.... then work the fine settings out from that.... That'll do for a start...
I started to write this 10 min's ago... A short burst of sleep and all hell breaks loose in the semi dormant brain!!! :D
I'll post my efforts on a die hopefully next week.
Ralph.
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A few sacrificial drinks cans will bite the bullet first.... there's no way I'm wasting the copper!!!
Make sure all the beer is out of it first though. ::)
Just a thought as I sit here writhing this... A drink can whth a series of scribed circles on it at set intervals and see which one is closest.... then work the fine settings out from that.... That'll do for a start...
Great idea Ralph. I was thinking about the same thing. :thumbup:
I'll post my efforts on a die hopefully next week.
Ralph.
Don't know if I can wait that long. ;D Oh Ok.
Bernd
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Hi Bernd,
Oddly I don't drink the beers... So will have to rely on my alcohol loving friends to supply me with the sacrifices!!
I'm afraid it will be friday before I will hit the shop!!! Too many people to see, and not enough time!
Well it is late here now so am going to finish viewing the site and retire for the evening :)
Ralph.
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Well progress on this has been a little bit 'very slow!'
Here is the next little installment....
After a bit of a chin wag and Crap o Cad (R) session with John (Boggie) We came up with a bit of a plan to get the press to do as much work on the ball as possible... The first part of that was the collar.... Tonights part of the project.
Firstly, get a large garage door weight (2' x 3"dia) and cut off approx 16MM (5/8").... Then face it off and drill a big hole in the centre ;D
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02476.jpg)
Then bore the hell out of it! :D
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02477.jpg)
Once that is done clean up the outside of the ring and test fit it...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02479.jpg)
Drill/tap 3 holes at 120 degree spacing.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02481.jpg)
Then fit it onto the punch and see how it all looks....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02482.jpg)
That was it for tonight. It is not totally finished yet, I am going to cut a relief for the grubscrews to purchase. Thenonce it is proved to work... I'll probably solder it on (weld if I need to)
More fairly soon... I am now released from other projects so it as all onto this little bit of fun ;D
Ralph.
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Moved from the mini ball turner thread.
Just to aid finding it, since I just tried the search and it took a page of two to find this...... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ozcZ65bqUF0
Mine is not going to be an exact copy of this... I havn't got the skill, time or CNC to produce such a framework. But I'm sure you'll agree that a ball is most certainly required!?
Well watch out for the updates in the Aeolipile post I have running, and we will see how my plan works!.... Did I say plan?! There is nothing on paper except for Boggies Crap o Cad (R) renderings.... Well that's all I need at the mo' :thumbup:
Maybe I'll scratch out some thing?.... Then totally change it as the music leads me (Enter smiley conductor here! ;D )
Ralph.
...
Also moved to here....
Ralph,
That looks like a much easier design, with the nozzles coming from a steam dome. A few advantages there.
More fluid for longer runs.
Much easier punch and die design.
A single ball race.
John
I figured it to be a little easier too John... It's not that I am not up for a challenge I just like the look of this one ;D
Hopefully it will move a little faster now ;D
Ralph.
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Blimey Ralph, you certainly like a challenge ............ I'm having trouble pronouncing "Heron's Aeolipile" neer mind attempting to make one ::) ............ I wish you well, as I'm sure you know and I'm looking forward to the build ............. however; first question, once you fabricate the two halves of the copper "ping pong" ball how are you going to set about holding the bits in place and soldering them :smart: ............. take plenty pictures please big feller 8)
CC
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Ralph and I seem to be of one mind on quite a few things. I have been thinking about building one of these for the past 2 years or so. More so after I saw engineman's version and hearing Ralph talk about them. I am going to take a different way on making the ball. I am going to try to spin it. One of these days I will get the tools together to do it.
Eric
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I think it's a brilliant project Eric, I'm really looking forward to seeing the progress, and to be fair ....... collectively .......... I hope we can help overcome any problems .......... this should be a blast 8)
CC
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I think this will have to be a collective project (on mine anyway). With all the smarts :smart: we have here, anything is possible.
Ralph OFC is our trailblazer! I can't wait to see where his goes. The artistic talent that man has...
:mmr:
Eric
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CC.... There are many ways to hold your balls, I will only post a picture of the final and prefered method :thumbup:
Spinning might yet be on the cards for a kettle if that idea comes back into mind.... Maybe as a show piece?.... We're talking very later here! (maybe after you show us how it is done Eric? :scratch:
Collective problems ehh....? :borg: .... Sorted! ;D
Ralph OFC is our trailblazer! I can't wait to see where his goes. The artistic talent that man has...
Now that's just putting me on the spot to get it right isn't it!! :-[:whip:
Suppose I'd better get my butt into gear then ehh?? .... Thursday is possibl;y the next opportunity!!.... We shall see :)
Ralph.
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Collective problems ehh....? :borg: .... Sorted! ;D
:borg: resistance is futile :borg:
Eric
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This is turning out very nice Ralph! I can't wait to see it finished. I made one once out of a brass toilet bowl float;o)
Wes
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Thank's Wes, I've seen tube vid's of the float converted types.... They can spin pretty well too!! Hopefully mine will look like it doesn't belong in the toilet? :D
Reistance is indeed futile.... You will all be drawn to every post on MadModder by the collective :borg: :clap: ;D
Ralph.
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Ralph
I've got several of Karsten's early turbines on hand if you want a bit more detail on how the bearings are arranged. His is a fascinating story of a lad raised behind the iron curtain who meets capitalism. I know it well, as I was there to see almost all of it. Sadly, the young fellow has a few personal demons he needs to deal with these days.
Steve
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Hi Steve, and welcome to another gent' of the small machining world :dremel:
I've seen your models, been to your site a few times :thumbup:
I have viewed all (I think?) videos out there on you tube of these little Karsten wonders and as much as I would like to know all about the workings, I think I want to work as much out for myself as possible (all part of the fun, you understand that?! ;D )
I've had some help from John (Which was needed and greatly appreciated) But I really want to let my mind do a little wandering on this one.... See what I come up with?
I'm not liking the bit of the story about the demons though.... Shame for someone so talented.
Are you making anything interesting at the moment then??
Feel free to tell us what you've been upto :thumbup: (we need info!!! ;D )
Ralph.
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Ralph
Remember me?....LOL. I'm the guy who builds em without drawings. I completely understand the desire to work through the idea.
To my surprise, Karsten did get at least part of out latest order to us this morning. I'm not sure what specific issues he's dealing with, but I certainly do worry about him.
I'm not doing much in the shop, at the moment. Cold weather has begun to shorten my stay out there. I'll probably spend the cold months indoors, lining up projects for this spring.
Thanks for the warm welcome
Steve
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Remember you Steve.... Still in awe of your water pressure engine!!!!! :jaw:
Too cold! How cold is it? .... Bout 3-5'C here.... I spend the winter in the shop and the spring/summer out enjoying myself ;D
Hopefully he will get through his issues and carry on designing/building these fun little artworks.
I'll look forward to the new projects in the spring.... until then feel free to comment all you like on my stuff :thumbup:
Ralph.
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Ralph
Remember me?....LOL. I'm the guy who builds em without drawings. I completely understand the desire to work through the idea.
To my surprise, Karsten did get at least part of out latest order to us this morning. I'm not sure what specific issues he's dealing with, but I certainly do worry about him.
I'm not doing much in the shop, at the moment. Cold weather has begun to shorten my stay out there. I'll probably spend the cold months indoors, lining up projects for this spring.
Thanks for the warm welcome
Steve
Hey Steve!
Welcome to our little corner of the interwebs!
Sent you a PM
Eric
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Right then! A bit less of this :offtopic: ( :D ) and a bit more on the Aeolipile....
Tonights (well this mornings too!!) offering...... The start of the cutting tool to make the die.
To start with, a piece of 1/2" gauge plate (from an anonymous benefactor :wave: ) is cut into an approx 55mm square (approx because it was cut with a hacksaw!) This photo taken on a break 'cause I was knackered!!!... Supprised it's not blurred with the heavy breathing going on!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02492.jpg)
A hole was then drilled through the centre to allow the use of an arbour (8mm with an M8 thread on the end).
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02496.jpg)
Once all that was done the corners were removed with the hacksaw and then the turning to exact size could begin.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02497.jpg)
The blank is left at 51mm dia' to be sized correctly in the next step.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02499.jpg)
The compound slide is then altered to 3' (from here on ' is the symbol for degrees). The blank is now turned to size using the compound to create the cutting angle required.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02500.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02503.jpg)
Next, the holder for the cutter as started from a piece of 25mm stainless I had in stock.
First turn the shank to 16mm (the largest collet I have for my mill)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02504.jpg)
Then holding the part in the rotary table, it is centered and the RT set to 0' (important to know this for later) and a slot is cut 35mm deep.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02507.jpg)
a test fit....Sorry about the blur!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02510.jpg)
The RT is then turned on it's side and the work piece rotated 90' to allow for drilling. the first hole is for the main locating pin to go through the centre hole in the cutter (8mm) The offcut of gauge plate is used to help minimize any flex when drilling.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02511.jpg)
The pin inserted. the top hole for the clamping screw can now be drilled. The first hole is through all parts with the 4.3mm tapping drill. Then 5.1mm clearance drill through the top hole of the holder and cutter stopping short of the lower hole that is to be tapped M5. A recess for the 8mm head of the screw is added to allow the head to be sunk but still clamp the cutter.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02512.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02513.jpg)
The part is rotated 180' and the holes tapped M5x.8
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02514.jpg)
The screws are added, the top one a standard M5x20 stainless cap head. The lower one is modified to make it's body 8mm dia and be used as the locating pin.
(might have to re-engineer this bit so it clamps aswell?.... Probably best!?)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02516.jpg)
So then what you have is a close to finished tool.... Just needs hardening and tempering and a little jiggery pokery with a file for relief on the non cutting side.... Might try all that today?
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02519.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02518.jpg)
Any comments like "there is a much easier way" will not be taken totally to heart.... I'm happy so far :D
Ralph.
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I'm intrigued in what you are going to do with this cutter? At first i thought you where making a 50mm sheet metal hole cutter, (which could have lent you)
But it seems not....this must be for something else...shall watch with interest... :dremel:
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WOW :headbang: .............. I see the "classes" are paying off; better get mi'self booked in :thumbup:
Seriously .......... nice engineering Ralph ............ keep it coming.
CC
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Darren,
Basically I'm intendind to bore a dome into a piece of mild steel !! :D Like a big dapping block (with only one dome) Then I will use the punch to press the brass/copper/bronze disc onto the hemisphere I require and hopefully it will all end happily ever after?!?!
CC,
It is yet to be proved that the classes are paying off..... But it sure feels like they are :) :thumbup:
We shall see......
Ralph.
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Interesting,
Be even more interesting to see it work, fingers crossed at this end.... :thumbup:
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Basically I'm intending to bore a dome into a piece of mild steel !! :D
Ralph,
As your going to be pressing bits of drink cans and then thin copper sheet does the die really need to be mild steel ............. IIRC over on 'tother site, Rich used Oak for his copper boiler and that seemed to work fine ............ or is it that your press takes "no prisoners" :bugeye:
CC
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Ralph,
I thought you were making a round punch for stamping out the blanks, I didn't see this idea in your plans. After it has been hardened, I can grind the cutting edge and forward face relief on for you.
As Dave suggested, look for maybe a slightly softer material for the die if you are going to try to cut it with a tool like that, and remove as much redundant material before starting the cut. I suspect your mill will have a little trouble with a cutting surface as large as that, but it is certainly worth trying.
Only suggestions by the way, it's your great project.
BTW, isn't that gauge plate easy to cut? ::) :D :D
John
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Ok, So I've had me chips p#*sed on a bit... No matter I am assuming that all work will be salvageable!!
I can easily make it from aluminium... I have a nice big block of that too.
I planned to basically incrementally cut the shape out of the block then use this to blend the edges to the final dome... Still only 5 hours gone ehh!! :(
Back to the drawing board!! :coffee:
Onward and upward!! :D
Ralph.
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Well it looks like a master plan.... Or two have arrived... Salvation (well salvage) of the tool is on going and looking good :D
I've been in a two man conference with John Boggie and we.... He has a solution to my problem.... It will cut an internal dome/hemisphere! :dremel:
Ralph.
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Starting to look Scarry Ralpg :zap: I can't wait to see what it does :bugeye:
Wes
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Aww no worries Wes, it'll all work out one way or another :thumbup:
I will hopefully be seeing John soon and get a few lessons too :D
Watch this space :thumbup:
Erm.... Ralpg!!!
Or Ralph if you like :)
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Ralph, yer ball turner can turn an external rad, why can't it turn an INTERNAL one?
Blank diameter, rough estimate, the ball you have already turned, and this is going to work for any circular form punches you make, if you consider the cross section, the developed blank is half the circumferance of the ball.
You MAY have to anneal the Copper a couple of times, and don't forget a reasonable radius on the top edge of the Die. Just had another thought,why are you making a female form anyway? Try a Ring die first, again,decent rad on top internal edge and use a lubricant.
Regards Ian.
And sorryto be a PITA but wern't it Hero ?
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Hi Ian,
Problems with the ball turner are few in my eyes but in reallity the internal cutting capabilities are not quire what they could be... The tool can only cut as deep as the tip due to the leg it stands on getting in the way, also the piece being hollowed must fit over the turret else it is a no go.
Got you on the blank bit... I'll give it a go when I reach the stage. Thank you.
The choice to make a female form was mine, I went through all the ways with John and decided I liked this one! .... What can I say I like the challenge! Even if it is proving to be a little difficult, I sure am learning lots on the way through! :thumbup:
I'll refer you to the link I think I posted earlier .... I suppose it depends on who told you about him first ehh??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria
Hope that answers all? .... I Know I don't always take the easiest or even correct path, but I do enjoy myself all the way there :dremel: :)
Ralph.
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Well it's been a long (ish ) day and there has been a great result.... Hopefully it will stand the next test?
I spent most of the day with John in his grotto making a form tool and the die for my hemispere making punch thingy me bob....
It went a little like this....
We started with a little instruction into what we would like to achive, John had been planning whilst enjoying his coffee :coffee: it was not to hard to get to grips with, just make a tool to make this happen!!
The tool blank that I had produced earlier in the month was to be re-designed and put to use as a form tool to be used in the lathe.
So here are the pic's and a little description of what was going on....
The tool was held in an arbour and the rear was cut amay to avoid it hindering the tool when inserted into the workpiece.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02539.jpg)
It was then hardened (I have a little video on this which I will sort out and post ASAP)
Then the tool was re-fitted to the arbour and a tool post grinder was used to grind a 20' relief angle to the rear of the cutting edge
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/IMG_4777.jpg)
that was then given a little polishing.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/IMG_4782.jpg)
A chip breaker was then ground into the front face of the blank and it was cut through slightly off centre (pound coin for size ref') the right hand piece is to be used as the tool.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02542.jpg)
Then I got to use the surface grinder.... Interesting process of getting a really smooth highly accurate finish in hardened metals. (Some video of this too... I will get them posted soon.)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02544.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02543.jpg)
The tool was then cut again this time the back edge was removed.... A crap 0 cad will be added here ASAP as I forgot to get pic's with the excitement! Sorry.
Now to the die....
A 65x65x50mm Aluminium block was held in the self centring 4 jaw and the front 20mm was rounded off...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/IMG_4790.jpg)
This allows easy form tool alignment later and also provides means of clamping the die to the press bed.
A 5mm hole was drilled through the centre and then the centre was opened out to 25mm with a couple of blacksmiths drills.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02546.jpg)
Then the fun starts.... The first step, increnmental cuts were taken, to rough out the shape of the dome required.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02548.jpg)
Then the form tool (held in a QCTP holder) was used to create the final shape.
Another video.... Yes I will sort them out ... It's just too late now!!
The final result....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02549.jpg)
and punch head in position....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02550.jpg)
We did try a steel version just after this, but as the steel came from a garage door weight and had an unbeliveably hard part in it, it ate a huge chunk out half way down the form tool!!!!! It was working quite well untill super hard bit reared it's head!
So if this doesn;t work for whatever reason.... It's purchase time of some better free cutting mild steel and make another form tool! :bugeye: :dremel:
Well that's it for this evening, I've learnt all sorts of interesting stuff tonight, and used a few machines that I have never had the chance to before.... I know you hate this bit John but Thank you all the same :wave: I'd have not got anywhere near this far without your help and entusiasm :thumbup:
I will sort the vid's out and get them posted ASAP.
I'll also get a few bits made up this week hopefully and then put all this work to the test.
Good night!
Ralph.
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Hey Ralph,
Nice bit of "tool room" work you done there with the help of the Bogster. :dremel: :thumbup:
Bernd
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John & Ralph... :bow: :bow: :dremel:
Eric
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I would just like to add a little bit to this part.
It is very difficult to operate totally new machinery to what a person is used to, but Ralph took it in his stride and had a go, with me looking over his shoulder like a mother hen.
It was nice just to get back into the shop, to show and explain to someone who has a thirst for machining and fitting knowledge. It took a lot longer than expected, mainly because I had to take pee and rest breaks fairly frequently, plus I was making sure I explained the processes thoroughly.
If it wasn't for the unexpected lump of tungsten hard stuff in the middle of the material, Ralph would have achieved two perfect dies. But now the process has been explained to Ralph in full, I would expect him to be able to reproduce what we did with the ali one in steel in about 3 to 4 hours, and be left with the knowledge that larger or smaller dies like this can easily be reproduced.
I also think I have a convert to my going overboard with DRO's on the lathe. Ralph didn't have to look at the machine dials once. He just let the DRO's guide him along the way. A bit of eyeball setting up of the tool, a little scrapbook calculation, and he was on his way.
Well done Ralph, especially on you teaching me how someone can survive on just plain water and choccies, it has to be seen to be believed. Nearly as bad as my fetish for jammy doughnuts and coffee. But what is life without a bit of shameless indulgence (even though it is bad for you at times).
You are welcome any time.
John
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Well it was a lot of fun John :D
A tool post grinder and maybe a surface grinder and I'd be able to re-do the work at home.... I could do a bit of a rough and ready version though..... But I think the tool post grinder would be a must!
The DRO's are really easy to use and get exactly what you want from the machine.... When times are not so hard (job secure etc) I'll look to invest I think. Most useful! :thumbup:
Survival.... I'm not to bad at that John, A huge breakfast at 10:30 without too much excersise in between will keep me going for a long, long time.... I wonder why I'm not a rake?!.... Probably all the sweets :)
Can't wait now to get it setup and have a go!!! :D
Eric, Bernd Thank you .... Most of the credit for this bit belongs to Bog's, the loan of your machines is very selfless and trusting :bow:
Enjoy a dohnut (or two!) today if you have any left John.... You've earnt it. :clap:
Ralph.
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Excellent work, can't wait to see the vids......fingers crossed for you for the final test.... :dremel:
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Sorry for not getting the videos sorted.... Been a little busy.... and then been trying to remember that there is much more to life than money!
Anyway.....
I got a little time in the shop tonight and this is the result... Not too positive but time will prevail!! (I hope!)
First drilled the punch and fitted a centring pin, the ball needs a hole top and bottom, might as well help centre the disc.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02555.jpg)
Then mounted the die and punch using the centre pin to aid this.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02559.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02558.jpg)
Ignore the brass bit for now, that was a but after setup!!
Now I tried a piece of thin ali can and it just split! So I decided to have a go at a piece of annealled brass.
A 1mm thick circle that was donated by John was the first test.... Not really thin enough! But worth a try!!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02557.jpg)
So back to the part you see in the above set up pic's... A piece of 0.5mm thick brass engraving plate (it's all I had!)
Well it was not the best result!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02560.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02561.jpg)
So I think I need to go a little thinner!
The Ali die is holding up to the tests well though, even though it has left a polished mark there is no feelable (I trust my fingers to find imperfections and there were none evident) damage to the die after the folding piece was removed.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02562.jpg)
I'll order some thinner plate and have a go at a few with that.... See how it goes, Now the question is should I use copper as it is softer and more sympathetic to my needs?
Or should I try and stick to brass??
Decisions, decisions!!!
Your turn guys, lets hear what you would do at this point?
Ralph.
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I watched a program on the tv recently and they did stamping in stages, they seemed to do a pre shape then do the finnal stamp, I made some small vents for a moddel boat some time ago and I found the size and shape of the material was very important.I also found the thicknes important , to thin caused more problems than to thick. I did it in stages but it did not make much of a difference
Peter
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Ralph, might a bit/a lot of heat help?
maybe the die as well as the metal.
Darren
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Ralph,
As I said in our discussions about these things, timing and materials are of the essence. So hang fire a bit.
I was only talking to a chappie called Stew, who I have only recently met, and he comes from my local area, in fact about 1/2 mile away.
Well he seems to be a sort of specialist on this type of pressing, from his days at at a local MOD bomb factory, where he looked after machines that made munitions cases.
He has seen your post about when we made the die block, and came up with a couple of suggestions to me, and now looking at your results, his comments were spot on. But I am not going to tell you what they were, as that would spoil all the fun.
But I will contact him, and ask him to join the forum and give you some pointers that I know are way beyond my experience with this sort of thing.
Even if it doesn't work in the long run, all is not lost. You still have a perfect former if you want to go down the metal spinning route.
John
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Hi Ralph I,m Stew John spoke about me
I'll try and help you round your pressing problem (pun) :D
:- 1 You have the die in the top mounted in a top pressure plate (fixed) that's bigger than the sheet you are trying to form
:- 2 The punch is in the bottom with a spring loaded preshure plate around it, the plate is slightly proud of the punch.
:- 3 The blank should be bigger than you realy need so that when the press is bottomed out, some of the sheet is still being nipped by the preshure plate.
:- 4 When the load is taken off the preshure plate stripps the work off the punch.
You need nice big rads on corners and lubrication on the sheet, try washing up liquid, swafega, WD40.
What your trying to do is restrict the plate just engough to make it iron its way into the die
You could use rubber for the springs Doggy rubber balls cut up (poor Doggy) :(
Problems you may encounter is the strip bursting this is usualy due to trying to form too much at one go, or to much pressure from the pressure plate, or the sheet may need anealing, you may have to do a partial form, before doing a finished form.
I've attached a sketch showing methodology for the tooling
Another option if you could get hold of a thick enough piece of rubber to use as the die, I did this for a city and guilds project:- made shallow ash trays.
How about replacing the punch with a rubber ball (just thought of that one) :thumbup:
If your toggle press hasn't got enough humph I've got a fly press you could use
If you need to chat it over John knows how to contact me
Good luck
Stew
:D
-
Hmm, Stew has reiterated three basic points from post 38 Ralph, Radii, annealing and lubrication. Yer NOT going to be able to do it in one bonk, and rather than trying to "Coin" the ball halves, a ring die might be more appropriate, and yes,the propper way to form this shape in industry would involve pressure and stripper plates and while you're building it all up, don't forget the open and closed height of the press (yes I did Stew, but only once).
If you look at any of the BOOK descriptions on how to make toy boilers, annealing regularly is the key and this applies if you're going to try to spin it too. Can't remember if you've had a go at panel beating yet Ralph but it's certainly worth getting a piece of copper, annealing it and having a bash over a simple form just to see how long it takes to become too hard to work. Don't forget, rather than dash out buying a sheet of virgin Copper, a bit of old 50mm (OK for our pals over the pond 2") water or gas pipe flattens out to 150mm ( 6" ). Same rules apply to Brass re annealing but Brass seems to harden up quicker and you soon get the "Feel", soft metals "thud" while harder ones "ring".
A few more bits to think about and watch yer fingers in that press. Hope Boggy issued you with an instruction sheet with it ( and it will be in English, might even be OLD English )and a CE cert ? ? :)
Regards Ian.
PS. Just for the record, cartridge cases used to be made from -------Cartridge Brass.
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Hi Ian
Like your comment re shut height:- once saw a 2 1/2 Ton Taylor and Challen press, that had the main crank shaft bearing smashed off, (lovely cast iron Johns probibly got bits of it in his material box) when the setter failed to wind the pitman back after a tool change, he didn't do it again, 5 days suspension without pay.
:(
Catridge brass is 70% copper 30% zinc for thise who are interested.
Have fun
:wave:
Stew
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Ok... So there's a lot to reply to and talk about here!
Here goes....
Darren, I don't really want to heat the die... It is only ali and I am not sure if it would weaken it in anyway? I could always leave the blank warm before pressing? Don't know if that would be a bad thing? (suggestions?)
Peter, I see what you mean... It makes a lot of sense to do it in stages.... I might have to make some more punches!!! Thin more difficult that thicker... Poss due to the stretch factor?... All things to consider!!
Hi Stew, welcome to my fun project :D and MadModder too :mmr:
To start with the techy stuff.... I think I have a view of how things were/are done. I drew a crap o cad for you to view... Hopefully it is clear enough... I wonder if this would work?
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Crap-o-Cad/img057.jpg)
I don't think I have the time/patience/abillity to make a press the type shown/described... Not too sure about the rubber ball thing either... Wouldn't the pressure split the ball ?
I understand the need for a greater radius on the lip of the die... This will be done (I know you told me Ian... But I thought a smaller radius can always be made larger... You know the rest of that saying!!)
The chat idea sounds like it could be fun Stew... We will have to see about it next time I get over to Crewe :thumbup:
Ian,
I am about to trawl the interweb for all the info I can find on the subject of press forming and then plan to spend most of the afternoon trying to understand it all. (this could be interesting for a person with litereature induced narcolepsy.... For some reason I fall asleep when reading a page or so?)
Still I am going to give it a good go!
I'll also try to find some copper pipe... Bit hard top come by these days, everyone is selling it to scrappy's.
The cartridge brass might also be a bit of fun to find.... I'll give it all a go.... Might also try to find some about 0.25mm thick... Make it easier on myself! (possibly, see answer from Peter)
"Thud" and "ring".... Got it!
I took some time adjusting the press... Instruction was given on all that, I also have no intention on putting my hands near the business end!!
Fun.... Yes it is all fun... If it becomes no fun the project will become shelved until I decide it can be fun again :D (No point in doing something you don't like doing ehh!!?)
Thank you for all the great responses Guys, I'll be putting the suggestions to work and see where we get to :dremel: :thumbup:
Ralph.
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Thanks for coming to the rescue Stew, even I now know what is required.
Ralph, as far as I can ascertain, the metal isn't clamped around the top edge, just restrained (hence the spring loading), allowing it to flow down into the die as the punch pushes the metal down into it, and the punch pulls it into the die as required. You are not trying to stretch the metal, just making sure that no excess is allowed into the die, unlike your first brass pressing with the fold on the side.
I am more up on the punching of materials rather than press forming, and certainly know the damage a press brake or hydraulic press can do. Somewhere in my workshop I have some slugs of material, 1/2" diameter by 1/2" long that were punched out of submarine bulkheads, the material was too difficult to drill, it work hardened almost instantly. I still haven't found a use for them.
In fact the toggle press that Ralph has now, was used to punch 1/8" copper/composite laminated materials for use in an industrial lapping process, and I cut many thousands of pre shaped holes with it during the trials.
Getting back to the materials now. In the thickness that is being envisaged to be used, approx 0.5mm copper. That should be able to be formed in one pressing after first being well annealed. I think brass would be a struggle for the depth of mechanical pressing before it work hardened, the press just wouldn't be able to impart enough pressure and speed before it got to it's work hardened state, but I have no doubts about the copper being able to be deformed to that depth in one go. On the other hand, Stews' flypress would have no trouble giving brass the pressure it needed.
I suppose people are thinking, why go to all this trouble for a pair of half spheres. Not only is Ralph and other people learning a lot from this exercise. If it was wanted, once the technique is perfected, many thousands more little half spheres of all shapes and sizes could be made. Also it is things that are learned along the journey that can help with other projects that might arise. Even if it ends up as a failure to go down this route, look at all the other processes Ralph has learned about getting there. So nothing is ever a true failure, how many did it take Edison before he perfected his light bulb, but he sure learned a lot on the way.
I suppose this could have been a guaranteed success if a lot more research had been done, because these processes have been around a lot longer than we have, but the fun of it all is doing it from scratch and getting other people involved.
This all started with Ralph making a little ball turner for his lathe. It shows just how things soon progress.
Whatever next?
John
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2 1/2 ton Stew ? that's nobut a bairns press, now 100 Ton HME bonking my signatures out of 3/8th carbon steel, used to shake the floor a bit, and assault the ear drums. My closed height disaster was having a tool made whose closed height was the same as the open height of the toggle press it was supposed to fit into. It was annoying in the fact that the bits of tool steel being "encased" in a die set was a job I used to set up on the shop floor before I was "promoted" to the D/O. A new "Toolmaker" transformed the setting operation from 2 Mins to 1/2Hr. Hmmmm.
Another incident, though not mine, was a setter letting the press have one "Bonk" on a piece of strip,the full length of, but slightly narrower than the guides on a stage tool. Didn't break the shaft, but certainly made short work of a brand new tool ( £2K but 45 years ago). Oh how SOME of us laughed, but not in the earshot of the works manager who at the time was calling for all the fires of hell and damnation to fall on the setters head.
I think there will be some thinning of the metal around the top edge John, cos once the metal starts sliding, I would expect it to wrinkle and resist the slide, despite any lubrication, and a spring pressure/stripper plate would increase in tension as the punch travels further down. Another thing that I don't think is helping is the location spigot on the punch. The hole in the sheet is going to be muchly distorted and bigger by the time you get to full depth.The ring die suggestion was so that the material had somewhere to go instead of trying to bottom, ( see Stews ref to broken crankshaft ) and yes I know it's a lot smaller than a power press, but the operation of a toggle press relies on the "sweep through" action of the handle. Thats why they tend to be used for cropping and punching operations, a flypress tended to be used for bending.
Trying to stop you getting disillusioned with this one Ralph cos I want to see you steam yer glasses up with it running.
Regards Ian.
PS. Key words to bash in on "Search" could be Die sets and Die springs. Trouble is, when I came out of toolroom, Tinterweb didn't exist.
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Trying to stop you getting disillusioned with this one Ralph cos I want to see you steam yer glasses up with it running.
You n' me both Ian :thumbup:
Ralph ............ you've certainly embarked on a steep learning curve here, but ........... that's no bad thing I think (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/wink.gif) .... I'm certainly expanding my "virtual" horizons and learning loads to boot, it doesn't matter if I will ever try these particular technique's the principle's will be invaluable ........... :bow:
Keep up the good work Ralph ................ your audience is waiting with bated breath :headbang:
CC
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I am in no way trying to put Ralph off the idea, in fact this method was the one I suggested because I had a little working knowledge of the processes involved, but because I had run out of the basics, was the reason I invited Stew to give a bit of insight on his dealings on the subject, to try to push it a little further along, using the materials and machines at Ralph's disposal, and nothing else. Maybe this wasn't the way to go, but if the avenue wasn't explored, you would never know where it would lead to, whether it be failure or success.
The process that is being explored is to turn a blank of a known size into a required shape, not by stretching the material but by deforming it so that it retains its original cross sectional thickness as far as possible. As stated in a previous bit to this topic, if this method doesn't work, the punch can still be used for a spinning form. There are always more ways to achieve what you want.
If Ralph really wanted to push it, I could most probably call in a favour and get some half spheres made for him, but Ralph nor anyone else would learn anything by doing that. It is the same as the die, one could very easily get one spark eroded out, and the offer has been made, but again, this has initially been turned down, as nothing would be learned about how to do it manually, and it was only the wrong material that caused it to be only a partial success. Everything else went like clockwork.
John
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Quite..a hobby is all about diy, well as much as feasibly poss it is.
Ralph, only a suggestion, the heat I mean. The ally should take it fine, they make pistons out of the stuff and they get a touch warm at times.
But I'm not suggesting this is the way to go, could easily be the wrong way though, it was just a thought. :wave:
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Hi Guys
Ralph as certainly got our little grey cells working. I've no doupt we could press a sphere its just a matter of getting the tooling correct, we use to make thousands of copper cones a week using the pressing method, and a good deal thicker than Ralph is trying to make. If my memory serves me right we did it in three pressings with interstage aneals.
You tooling scetch is spot on ralph you got the principles right, for what you are trying to do I don't think you will need steel pressure plates you could try making them out a chip board or melonean (spell) or even a plastic chopping board.
If you could get hold of thin guilding metal sheet you may have more sucess (90% copper 10% Zinc) its got excelent deep drawing and forming properties, its what bullet jackets are made from.
Her's another shop desaster:- It was with the reduction gear box of a 24" rolling mill, the oil feed to the gear box became blocked, the site widow was dirty and the oil couldn't be seen circulating, did the oiler clean the widow NO, :hammer: he kept checking the tank and was happy it wasn't going down. By the time the problem was spotted a 20 inch diameter hering bone gear had teath worn down to about 1/8" thick :(
Have fun, and keep trying, you don't know what can be done until you try.
Stew
:wave:
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Ok.... Sorry I didn't make it too clear... I wasn't thinking of hard clamping, just nipped up. So that with lubrication it would move with the pressing action. I'm sure that it could work?!?! I'm sure that I have some new landrover valve springs somewhere that could be used under the plate instead of the packers pictured in my scrauling?
The distorted hole has already been noticed from the forms I tested on Ian... I can remove the spigot if needed, but the holes are going to have things soldered onto and over them so they may yet need to be bigger?
I was going to make it from steel plate because I have it... And I want it to last... Once I get it working I plan on making a few for all sorts of things :D
I am reading everything that everyone is saying and I'm going to make a vey big list of all the points raised so far and sort through them... everything from plates to materials to forming action will be tried and tested... I will get a spere or 2000000000 made.... Well nearer 100 maybe?! I've got all sorts of little plans for them in the long run.... I just got to get it right!
I'm now looking at this as a summer completion project as opposed to the winter one originally envisaged.... Still I plan on enjoying the hell out of myself trying to get it right :headbang: :thumbup:
Ralph. ( Just currently searching tinterweb for stuff! :wave: )
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Ralph,
Just went back through the whole thread. I noticed that you have the bottom die held down with a clamps. Now this is just a thought, but have you considered letting the bottom die float. In other words don't clamp it down. I'm thinking that perhaps there might be a small misalignment even though you have that pin in the center.
I would leave the bottom die unclamped, since there is no way it's going to move other than try to line up with the upper die. Take the pin out and try to form one without punching a hole. See if that makes a better part.
From rereading all what was done it seems like an alignment problem between the bottom and upper die.
Bernd
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Firstly, I hope you haven't taken any of my comments as a criticism JM, they were in no way intended to appear that way, just another road to Rome/Ancient Greece. Stews suggestion of a "Soft" pressure plate was certainly a good idea. UNFORTUNATELY Ralph has now changed the rules so it looks like a harder one is required ( 100 half shells ? ) :jaw: Yer may have to put the pressure plate at the top, round the punch with your springs sandwiched between a backing plate on bolts with a clearance in the pressure plate and screwed into the backing plate. Just seen HS93's pickkys using a rivveting block, did the same thing for working vents on the Model Maker plan version RTTL (Vic Smeed). The Punch was a ball/pein hammer, using another hammer to strike with, it was at school, and taught me about annealing, and the vents were Copper, Ahhh, those were the days.
Regards Ian.
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No Ian,
It was just me clearing myself of being a bit negative in my postings. It looked like I was saying it was almost doomed to failure, and up to this time, it is far from it. With all these experts on the case now, it just has to work, or a lot of people will be getting ready for redundancy.
John
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I'm no expert, but it can certainly be done. I know for fact that Karsten modified a pedestal (bottle) jack to make them for his turbines. There was some small amount of rippling at the rims of his earliest work, but it was minor and he did eventually figure out how to beat that problem. His tooling was far more primitive than anything you guys have mentioned in this thread, so don't give up.
I'd be happy to ask him about this project, but he seems to have fallen off the face of the earth recently.
Steve
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Well I'm glad that everyone is happy :)
I've been searching the webtinternet tonight and found a whole lot of people willing and able to produce such spheres. But no one willing to tell you how you can do it... Well I can't seem to find them if they are out there!
So it looks like we're all pioneers!!! :dremel: (well at least in sharing the info :thumbup: )
Steve,
I thought of using a little bottle jack if the toggle press wasn't enough.... I have the jack on my bench ::) Not willing to even think more on it until all avenues are exhausted with the toggle press :whip:
I will figure this out even if it takes all of us to do it :thumbup:
I hope mr Gintschel is ok Steve, His works are what inspired much of my efforts. That said I think it would be a little cheeky to ask him to help make a model based on some of his designs! (imitation might be a form of flattery but I don't want to push it!)
I really am happy that so many people have taken an interest in this project :wave:, I just hope the result does not dissapoint!
Ralph.
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Not an incentive to change direction Ralph but if you haven't seen this one it's one to add to your arsenal
http://www.eurospares.com/frame8.htm
Regards Ian.
-
That was really interesting Ian, thanks for posting it.
Darren
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Not an incentive to change direction Ralph but if you haven't seen this one it's one to add to your arsenal
http://www.eurospares.com/frame8.htm
Regards Ian.
That's an interesting take Ian. I know the eurospares website well... I am on Mr. Moores motorcycle frame list as well.
Eric
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That looks pretty cool.... One of these days Ian I'll maybe try that out!?
But hopefully this current attampt at shape forming will finally work out, I'm just hunting down stock for cheap at the mo!
Soon i will get back onto this thread, with positive news I hope :)
Ralph.
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Very very interesting thread.
I had tried to press a piece of Brass a month ago, but was in a hurry, and didnt think it through properly, and ended up doing something different.
HOWEVER... I did run across this clip.. or a clip simalar after the fact.
I know a lot may have bigger machines... and wondered if anyone had considered this option?
Metal Spinning
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8292524307449042055 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8292524307449042055)
Where the metal sheet is locked against a wood form, and then with a lever arm of sorts, spun/formed into shape.
-
Scott,
I can't get that video to work? But I know about metal spinning. I have the DVD set from the 'metal spinning workshop' instructional videos from Terry Tynan.
I have just got to find the time to make the rest and tools... It will take a lot of work to make some of the stuff required.
I'm taking the press approach for a few reasons... 1] I've got it. 2] it's a challenge that I've never tried. 3] I've still got a lot to learn but....
This evening I've been having fun!!!.....
To start with.... My first ever use of a face plate, I've been taking notes Bernd.... Sacrificial ali plate used between work and face plate.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02667.jpg)
I cleaned the edges up and then bored it out for the punch to fit through (eventually with the collar on, I think?)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02670.jpg)
Finished plate.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02671.jpg)
I mounted it to the press using long bolts and some powerfull springs... As I figured might be needed after all the discussion earleir in the post....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02684.jpg)
Well I gave the press a good hard go and it did this....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02685.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02686.jpg)
The springs did alter the amount and style of the creasing. It also kept the domed form quite well, even if it didn't reach the bottom of the die!
So I tried it without the springs and the plate tight ....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02687.jpg)
And the results.... Non springs one is on the right.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02688.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02689.jpg)
Well I'm not down hearted... This was brass 0.7mm thick... I've got some copper 0.5 and 0.7mm on the way next week :thumbup:
I decided that since I had two near forms I'd make some of the other tooling required....
An arbour for holding the domes while trimming... Machining nylon is fun!!!! (M14x1.5 thread into the nylon and on the brass arbour.)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02691.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02692.jpg)
This was then threaded in the centre as well to take a M6x1.0 bolt from the front through the location hole in the dome, the dome could then be trimmed....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02698.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02699.jpg)
And finally... A little solder and a bout of emerying (is that a word?!)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02701.jpg) :)
I know it is not a ball.... It's a prototype for all my processes. I can now test all of my parts and mountings etc on this little fella :dremel:
I had a lot of fun today, got out into the shop about 14:00 ish and planned and pottered about, apart from a gap for tea and topgear I spent the night in there, good music and machining... Who could ask for more? I was in there right upto and through into the new year!.... One of the best new years eve's I've ever had! :headbang:
Comments etc welcome :D
Ralph.
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Looking good Ralph! I am super impressed. A little odd looking ball... great results though!
Eric
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Ralph,
Are there any hard and fast rules that say it has to be a true sphere?
A sphere is just a, well, a sphere, your 'elipse' is SPECIAL.
It gives the look of speed, a sphere being distorted because of centifrugal force.
Play on that shape when making the support frame. You have the makings of something away from the 'norm'.
You can play with making true spheres another time.
N-I-C-E
Bogs
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Ho Ho Ho Ralph
:D :D :D
Your nearly there :clap: :clap: :clap:, this is great progress even though you've not quite got a sphere you've certainly got some thing to work with:-
Could I suggest the following
1:- Increase the diameter of the blank to give the pressure plate a bigger surface to work on and stop the wrincle.
2:- Did you aneal the brass if not you could try this.
3:- Try a lubricant washing up liquid would be a good start.
4:- Try increasing the radius on the die
5:- Try a bit more pressure on the pressure plate by pre loading the springs a bit more
6:- Try polishing the surface of the pressure plate up a bit.
From now on it will be suck it and see< but think twice before you machine anything from the tool, try the adjustment route first as you can easlily get back where you started.
If none of the above works you may have to deepen the die
Have fun
:wave:
Stew
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Hey everyone
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
WOW looks awesome.. very beautiful. I think the shape is perfect!!!
I was watching that original clip and think that would be a fun project...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8292524307449042055&ei=JJJcSa2nG5C8rALh5qyUCQ&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8292524307449042055&ei=JJJcSa2nG5C8rALh5qyUCQ&hl=en)
The other one didnt work for me either.. :scratch:
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Hi Ralph
Just had another look at your photos:- you could try spinning the crinkles out on the nylon ball set up, just replace the cutting tool with a roller of some type. Just spoke to John he say's your popping over tomorrow, I'm going out for a walk tomorrow morning and liquid lunch :beer: with some work friends, if I get back in time I may pop round, it would be nice to meet up.
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Way to go boss...... :headbang:
What wrong with it Ralph, I was looking at the ball thinking you've cracked it. OK so not a true sphere, like Bogs says, any rule that says it has to be.
-
Now about forming this cubed shaped one and having it spinning corner to corner, with four jets, one on each remaining corner.
Remind me tomorrow, and I will let you have a bit of brass box section to play with.
Bogs
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Whoooa!!.... Lots to say to all those responces!....
Firstly thank you to all.... Positive comments are always good to receive :)
Eric, as I said in a recent P.M. .... What's wrong with odd shaped balls!! :lol:
John, I quite like it's odd shape... As you said "special" like me! :thumbup:
The square idea sounds fun too.... It's yours so you should probably build it!? .... I can still have a go at one too though :)
Stew, The sheet was anealed, it was also lubed with 3in1 oil.... Not slippy enough?
I already increased the radius on the die to about 2.5mm ish (from 1.5mm ish. skimmed a little and finished with emery)
I'm thinking of a little radius on the outer edge of the die too... The marks are visible where the rippling caught and dragged on the 90' edge of the die.
I couldn't have put more pressure on than with the no springs attempt...it bent the plate upwards by about 5mm!!! But I will polish the plate and try it all again when the copper gets here.
I'm not too sure about the spinning idea though.... Not with such a rippled surface, I think it could spell "i n j u r y "! I have modified the nylon form slightly since the picture, I wanted to get a clean edge so now the dome of the arbour does not meet the back edge of the hemisphere by about 3mm, allowing a neat trim off and de-burr of the part.
Thant's not to sat I can't make another one.... I've got another 2 pieces of that nylon :dremel:
I'll be at Johns around 1 ish, If true to form I could be there for a little while !! :) If you manage to make an apperance, that will be a bonus to the day I'm sure :thumbup:
Scott, sorry , still not working!? ... Fun project yes.... But it sure is hard work!! I love it! :thumbup:
Darren, Not a true sphere!! It looks like an over inflated rugby ball!!! :lol: I'm still going to use it... We all need prototypes when designing fun stuff.... Most of my finished one offs are prototypes that just worked!! :D
The thing is I want to make a few of these.... They will all have their little diferences, but I want to have a go at a mini production run!! Don't know what to do with them once I get it all sorted, probably birthday and Xmas prezzies of the future, my friends will all be sick of them :lol:
Well out to the shop for a bit, Might do a little on my finger engines today... For a little break :)
Once again, Thank you all for the great comments and guidence.
Ralph.
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Neat project. Personally, I really like the shape; it adds character.
-
Whoooa!!.... Lots to say to all those responces!....
Eric, as I said in a recent P.M. .... What's wrong with odd shaped balls!! :lol:
....
Ralph.
Nothing wrong with an odd ball.... :lol:
Kinda like you... oddball. :lol:
all in fun ofc.
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Roger,
Glad you like the current project, and the shape, well that's proving to be ok too :) I may have to make all future ones that way if the softer copper doesn't play nicely :scratch:
Eric,
Good job I can take a joke.... Just wait till I get the chance to return it.... I'll be all like whitty an' stuff!! ::)
No progress on this till I get the new parts.... Next week I suppose... Been spending this evening designing and making jigs for my finger engine attempts! I'll post them when completed....I'll give the keys to my photo album (well the link!) and anyone interested can root through all the pics they like!
Ralph.
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No progress on this till I get the new parts.... Next week I suppose... Been spending this evening designing and making jigs for my finger engine attempts! I'll post them when completed....I'll give the keys to my photo album (well the link!) and anyone interested can root through all the pics they like!
Looking forward to the link.
BTW, I think what you have done so far is outstanding. Actually pressing the shapes... how cool is that??
Eric
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I could give the link now.... But I think I'd like a little more progress on them first :dremel:
I'm really pleased with the current outcome, I'm just trying to figure out how to mount the little blighter!!??
I've been drawing, screwing up and drawing some more this evening..... :coffee: I might have to go for the executive mounting system... The one which costs a bomb in materials!!!
I'm struggling to envision the frame between wire and full barstock... I'll get there :smart:
No CNC here.... This has all to be manually created and preferably repeatable! So not too many fancy latice works coming from this direction!
Right.... Off to bed I think! Got to drive over to see John tomorrow :)
Ralph.
Ha!!! So much for off to bed.... I was reading through the post before I let it fee and suddenly thought of a reasonably quick and not too expensive mounting idea... Who says you can't think straight at 2:00am!!! :thumbup: So I've just drawn it up.... Used a ruler and compasses and everything! I must be mad! (Don't bother with the answer to that!!)
Now I'm going to bed! :D
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Ralph,
If you read this before you start out.
Think about thick (or thin) perspex for part of the framework (not where it gets hot), remind me later, and I will give you a large piece. Also, don't forget your USB pendrive.
John
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Well late to the party as usual.
Nice use of the ally plate there Ralph. Works great right? :thumbup:
I think that ball turned out quite nice. Yes, it's a wee bit off, but it gives it character. :)
I remember seening deep drawing at work one time. They had a 500 ton press. The parts they were making looked like a round pot about 12" deep. The material also wrinkeled. I think you just need to provide for that in your material.
Here's an idea for your frame work. Have ever thought of using a procedure called fret work? If not I can provide some pics of work I have done. This work calls for many pieces to be made of the same pattern. All you would need to do is draw a master pattern and then make copies. Glue the copies on your metal and proceed to cut out the pattern.
Keep up the great work your doing on this. :dremel: :thumbup:
Bernd
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Better late than never Bernd :wave:
I'm getting ready for the copper test before I do any more changes... Other than those I have desribed I will be doing... If that does not work I will be going to pressing through a ring or between plates....Things that have been suggested a few times...I've not been ignoring any advise, I just want to exhaust my first try first :thumbup:
It's all a big learning curve :smart: And it's quite good fun acctually :)
Now then... This fret work... You have my attention! Sounds like it could be difficult though?
The work will hopefully carry on end of next week? .... We will see :dremel:
Ralph.
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Ok.... So I made a short vid to do two things,
1, allow me to display it in the video posting topic I'm writing up and,
2, show the ball turner making the punch for this project.... The die made at Bog's shop is next for the video treatment :thumbup:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IAl7_aGHgtI
That's it for now, I have a videos topic to finish!!
Hope you like the vid?
Ralph.
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Wow Ralph,
Again you make a nice vid, sure you're not in the profession?
And who's this Andy Martin chap, that was some nice playing there.
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Peter... Try this one,
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=282.0
I made it a few months ago and hsven't fully dedicated time to learning it's full potential, I will one day :)
Darren,
Only one profession as such.... Mechahackanicing and I don't even do that anymore! (much!)
The vid's will be looking a little differently soon... Got a new proggy to try out :thumbup:
Andy Martin is a busker from the Chester area and can be seen or more importantly heard playing in the city centre most weekends of the year. He sells a CD which I purchased and he was quite happy for me to use his recordings on my videos.... So I did! You can find a vid' of him on youtube posted by chestertourist___ I can't recall the rest!!
But it is out there.
I might even have a video in my files somewhere? I'll have to have a look!
Glad you liked it anyway :)
Ralph.
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Ralph
I found this picture and thought of you. Here is the title of the book that it came from. I downloaded it as a *.pdf file from google.
A Descriptive History of the Steam Engine by Robert Stuart, ESQ, 3rd Edition MDCCCXXIV.
If you need more info let me know.
cheers :beer:
Don
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Awesome vid.
I really need to make some sort of Camera mount. That looks really sweet the way you do those.
Very professional.
Matter of fact.. Well before I found this site, I found your video clips.
I have some out there myself.. but they are not machining ones.. just some car stuff. http://www.youtube.com/spinracing
Scott
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Don,
I have just two issues with the pic'..... First I know I don't have the tallent to make some of those lions!! And, I have no idea where to get a tiny Quasimodo impersonator??!? :lol:
Seriously though, Thank you for the book info' I will look it up. If it is a good read and not to expensive I can alwasy purchase it (got to be under a tenner these days though!
Scott,
I'm glad you like the vid' I've got a couple more to make soon.
I've seen your vid's before... I always check out the pages of all of the people who subscribe to my videos.... I still can't believe there are 70+ of you out there who want to see any new stuff I make.... Very humbling and adds a bit of extra pressure when you come to make another vid'!!
I have to say I prefer the 'vette over the RX7... I like the Muscle cars :) Specifically the Dodge Charger and Challenger.... But the New Charger has my current vote... 6.1 HEMI.... Oh yes please!!!
This beastie!!!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Random%20stuff/images_ascchus_com.jpg)
Yer I know way, way :offtopic: But it's my thread and I'll wander all I like.... Where's that sticking your tongue out smiley?? :lol:
A camera mount isn't a hard build, I made mine in the same evening I made the original ball turning vid' I needed to hold the camera still and use both hands on the lathe... So I made it first :dremel:
I think I posted it in the gallery? If not I can always do so.
Ralph.
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Yep the camera mount is out there in teh builds someplace :)
The honking big dodge is a beast of a car.
The state troopers (highway patrol who chase down the baddies) are now all running the black on black with black tinted windows.
Mean mothers.. with hidden lights and stuff.
I gather you can order them from Dodge with the police package and they have quite a few treats to make them faster and more robust. :)
I have a 91 RX-7 at the house here I put a new motor in.. but Im twiddling my thumbs trying to decide if I am going to assemble one of the two V8s I have in the garage......
Small Journal 327, and a 383 chevy... that needs a crank. I have some high flowing 202-160 heads with big runners, and roller rockers sitting on the shelf. And I have been trying to decide which motor to put them on.
Then what transmission to use... I have a TH350 with a manual valve body.. and a 200R4 with a kit in it..... But I really would rather have a T-56.
realistically.. Im holding off doing anything cause Im finishing the main project car atm.
1988 RX-7 with... well... Everything.
Big brakes, full 8 point rollcage, momo seats, 5 point harnesses, fuel cell, 3" to dual 3" styainless exhaust.. with 5" mufflers. Widebody (still to be bought/made)
And the fun.. a 3-Rotor engine from a Japanese Cosmo that now has a single T-66 Turbo on it. (Picture something oversized for a.. Lorry? or 18 wheeler) Big huge fuel system, and a stand alone, Wolf 3D 4 Plus, Engine management system I need to program.
oh yeah.. all the plumbing is braided, inclusing radiator lines.. which are -20 braided.
I was originally a suspension upgrade.
10 years later EVERYTHING has been changed except for the shell. Some things 3 times. (went from a 4 lug IRS rearend.. to a 5 Lug, to a bigger 5-lug.)
-
:offtopic:
oooh the black Charger is sweet. I wanted one, but not enough room for me and all the junk I haul. I will just have to keep my Dodge Magnum:
(http://www.whitedodge.com/images/dodge-vehicles/Dodge-Magnum-1.jpg)
*not a picture of mine... same color though
Back to the topic
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Just a little more :offtopic: Then I promise I will steer it back next post!!! :)
Scott.... You just used so many American words for thing I know the real words for it's not funny!!!!! ... Well actually I think it is!! :lol:
I have some high flowing 202-160 heads with big runners, and roller rockers sitting on the shelf. And I have been trying to decide which motor to put them on.
Then what transmission to use... I have a TH350 with a manual valve body.. and a 200R4 with a kit in it..... But I really would rather have a T-56.
And ....
(went from a 4 lug IRS rearend.. to a 5 Lug, to a bigger 5-lug.)
I'm lost.... And I fixed cars for a long time!!! (British ones with English named parts :lol: )
I can figure some of it out, but....202-160 heads? Big runners? TH350, 200R4, T-56 (turbo?)? and 'X' lug IRS? ... Not being too thick here am I....? Just never heard of the terms!!
Ahh!! justy got one IRS, independent rear suspension... That makes lugs wheel nuts! :thumbup:
Eric,
Motor envy is not what I needed this evening :bugeye: Sweet beast!!! No wonder you guys don't mind traveling for many hours to visit rellies!
And all I got is a Renault!!!! :(
Ralph.
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I have some high flowing 202-160 heads with big runners, and roller rockers sitting on the shelf. And I have been trying to decide which motor to put them on.
Then what transmission to use... I have a TH350 with a manual valve body.. and a 200R4 with a kit in it..... But I really would rather have a T-56.
He he he he he he.
Ok :)
202 intake.. in reference to the intake Valves. 2.02". 160.. being 1.60" Exhaust valves.
Big Runners.. meaning that the intake and exhaust runners in the heads are very large bore. IE Good overall volume through them. And best for Higher RPM use.
Roller-Rockers Meaning the Rocker Arms have tips that press the valves with hardened roller bearing tips on them.
Transmissions are GM Turbo Hydramatic 350. TH350. Manual Valve Body meaning that it no longer shifts Automatically. You put it in a gear and it stays there.
GM Turbo Hydramatic 200R4. Is a 4 Speed Overdrive transmission considered a "Metric" tranny. It was used in the Buick Regal Grand National.. that had the Turbo 6 Cylinder in it. Doesnt handle overall power as well. But it is a overdrive tranny.. so there is a hint of mileage. Kit.. meaning a shift kit, causing much firmer shifts that will shred the tires on upshifts.
T-56 being the 6-speed manual transmission used in cars such as the Mustang Cobras, Camaros, Corvettes, Vipers, GTOs etc.
(went from a 4 lug IRS rearend.. to a 5 Lug, to a bigger 5-lug.)
That would be moving from a 4 lug wheel hub, to a 5 Lugs wheel hub. And then a Stronger axle 5 Lug rearend assembly. And this is also a IRS, Independent Rear Suspension.
(Of course the entire rear subframe has everything tied into it, and needs changed each time)
And all I got is a Renault!!!! :(
Ralph.
RENAULT!!! ooooh we dont have many Renaults here in the colonies. Most are some sort of tiny econobox that is complete crap... Mid-80s stuff. Alliance I think it was?
NOW... Give me a R5 Turbo.. or any of the other small Hatch back ones I have seen in the rallys.. I would be a happy camper.
Granted I have never owned one, or worked on one.. so I could be speaking like a moron.
:)
-
One last bit on the :offtopic: section..... Scott, Don't go to the Renault 5 GT turbo's.... You'll regret it!
Now...... On with the real topic!!
I finally got to spend a few hours in the 'shop yesterday, I got a little busy with re-design and testing, here is what I got upto.....
Warning!!... This post is going to be a monster... With lots of big pic's!!!
So, Go with advise received and polish the clamp plate up a bit
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02745.jpg)
Then make a riser for the die (deepener really but that don't not sound right!?!)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02748.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02750.jpg)
This may not look like much but my boring skills were lacking.... So after a little tutorial from Bog's when I saw him last I had a go.... Worked well John :thumbup:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02754.jpg)
Once the part was the right ecternal for the die it was drilled for 4 dowels as was the die.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02755.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02756.jpg)
The top edge was bevelled to try to avoid the grabbing experienced in earlier attempts. Then the two parts were pressed together.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02758.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02759.jpg)
Now the bit I've been waiting for.... Test! I purchased some copper sheet 6x3" in 3 different thicknesses 0.9, 0.7 and 0.5mm. I thought I'd stary with the thinnest one first, so I sheered a 3x3" square off and drilled the 4mm hole in the centre for the pin. I then annealed the sheet (noticably more malleable than the brass) and set it up in the press (as per earlier pic's with the springs)
Then a couple of stamps later....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02764.jpg)
A bloody big split!!!
Not to be disheartened I tried the 0.7mm sheet. This also started to split, at the hole! So the next logical step... No hole!
I removed the locating pin from the punch and tried another 0.5mm sheet. This time with no hole in it and lined up by eye, also after the last two attempts I decided to press this one hot, got it to a cherry red just before clamping it into position.
The result...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02765.jpg)
From left to right, the first attempt split. The second attempt splitting before the form was complete and finally the last attempt. The conclusion I need to start with a 4" square/circle and then press it hot and without a locating pin/hole.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02768.jpg)
"But wait" he says There's more.... I also had a bit of fun with the prototype shape already created....
A taper bored central axis was made and then soft soldered into the shape,
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02777.jpg)
An internally threaded part was also soldered into the opposite hole for a filler plug to be screwed into (localised heat used to save de-soldering the shape at it's seam.)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02784.jpg)
Then on a tangent (whilst waiting for the shape to cool down) I made a little mod to the punch head, A small brass rod was friction fitted into the hole left by the pin. This was then shaped into a very shallow dome with a hole in it's centre. The theory, it will hold the form in the centre whilst punching is being performed and might give a little relief for the drilling that will have to be performed after pressing now that the hole is not being drilled first.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02772.jpg)
Quick test in the better of the already pressed test forms...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02773.jpg)
Then onto the soon to be figured out jets.... After a discussion with Bog's a few months back, a small plan was devised to narrow the end of a small dia brass tube.
This is that plan, well my version of it anyway!
A hole drilled into a stainless rod was then reamed (in a fasion) out with a carbide tapered cutter. The use of plenty of trefolex helped this process (the first attept burned the teeth off the cutter!!) I used the whole tail stock to slide back and forth, use of the cutter like a drill will burn the teeth off it, it needs to be a push and retract action in quite quick succession.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02787.jpg)
A small test section of the tubing was cut and the very tip annealed, this was then held in the drill chuck lubricated and forced into the internal tapered rod. I used the tailstock lock and advanced the tub in using the tailstock screw (like drilling).
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02791.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02792.jpg)
The result... A tapered jet :thumbup:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02794.jpg)
Then just the addition of the screw in bung with a rubber 'O' ring and that was it for last night.... I'm getting there slowly!! :)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC02797.jpg)
Ralph.
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Have you thought of doing it in stages now there is no hole , Press half way then re anneal and finnish it off.
by the way its looking Good :clap:
Just an idea
Peter
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I'll get some more copper sheet in the 0.5 variety but 4x4 size and will try it Peter.
I've no issues with trying other things, I've just got to think of them first.... That's why I have you guys... To keep reminding me of the bits I could be doing wrong!! :thumbup:
I'm quite happy with the tests, they showed me a lot of the things that are not quite right :)
It's all a big learning curve :dremel:
Glad you like it so far :D
Ralph.
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Very cool. Glad to see you making headway on this project. One of my favorites.
Eric
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Nice jet Ralph.
I thought I gave you a d-bit to form the hole, maybe I forgot to find one for you.
But anyway, really enjoying the post, especially the trial and errors, plus failures, rather than just the successes.
Bogs
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I thought I had a D bit too John?? I looked for 10 min's I thought I had it with the pipe... But alas I think it was scared of the stainless? :)
There are always bound to be failures... I know for instance that the prototype is not going to spin too evenly, it seems a bit out of balance.... No worries though. That's why it's a prototype!
I've already started on the cures to the faults that I'm finding, they will all be posted at such a time as they are used to make a final part.... Hopefully not too long if it all works with the larger materials etc?
Next time I'm in there I'll be concentraing on a different project or two. To give myself a little break from this.... I've also got to make a pipe former for the bends in the jets too, I'm looking for repeatability here.... So that could be interesting! (I've got some plans on my 'puter somewhere!)
I did say early in this project that it was all experimental (emphisis on the 'mental' !! ) and would take some time.... I wasn't expecting this long... But I'm enjoying it all the same :D
So don't worry, it will be done... Just a little slower than some of you make stuff!
I just like to amble along trying to let it all sink in... It wouldn't be half as much fun if I felt pressurised into finishing it :thumbup:
Ralph.
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Nice on Ralph
Your nearly there with the dome forming. The splitting of the thin copper is because your asking it to do too much, a couple of pre forms may help, but forming thin sheet can be more dificult, you may be better sticking with the thicker stuff. :thumbup:
Have you thought about having another go with the brass now that you've deepend the die you may get a more complete ball.
Have :wave:
Fun
Ste
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Ralph,
You had no need to use stainless, mild steel would have been just fine. Stainless is one of those materials that can scare the life out of a lot of tooling.
Don't worry about the bending of copper tube bit, once it is annealed, a 3" or 4" square of 1/4" thick plywood or hardwood will have you easily making repeatable bends, as many as you want to make. When you get to that stage, just ask.
John
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Great work there Ralph,
Now what you didn't let us in on was how you lined up those four pins for drilling :dremel:
I would liked to have seen that....no worries if it's now too late... :thumbup:
With SS you need to keep the speed low for such tool abuse, well, that's what I've found anyways.
Only when you threaten it with carbide can you really scare it into submission.... :lol:
-
Ply wood ehh John, I'm intrigued.... Does it involve the vice?
I used the stainless because I had it in a suitable size... No real need I know, but it worked :thumbup:
Darren, When you say slow are we talking less than the 1800Rpm I was running at!!?? The 1st tool was suspect as a carbide bit... But the one in the pic was the real deal.... It didn't even think of going blunt... As I said I kind of put pressure on it for only a second at a time, with plenty of lubrication in between.
Most of my tooling is carbide, I've only got a little bit of HSS for tooling... Still got to learn to grind it properly!
The transfer of the hole points was a bit heath robinson..... I didn't even take a photo of it!
I drilled the ring first, then put a semi thick layer of marking blue around each hole. Then positioned it accurately over the die and lowered it onto it.
A light bit of pressure to make the blue transfer and lift off the ring, 4 marked holes inside 4 splodges of blue. The clear points in the centre of the blue were lined up by eye and drilled with a stub drill... I worked very well... Could be that it was a good idea or that it was just lucky, I'd like to think I could repeat the process. :)
I'll probably get my wrist slapped for not using the dials or DRO's, but my DRO's are not working and the dials are missing the clamping screws (never needed them!) The dials may soon be replaced with drive pullys for a motorised upgrade I'm trying to invent in the back of my head!
Ralph.
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Sorry Stew, your reply was on the last page and I didn't see it!
I know what you mean about the pre forms... I was thinking that I might have to do that until I did the hot one, that worked quite well!
The 0.7mm will probably be the one I stick with... I haven't thought about using the brass again, it was so damn hard to form!!! Maybe with a hot approach it might take the form easier?
I might just give it a go :dremel:
Ralph.
-
Darren, When you say slow are we talking less than the 1800Rpm I was running at!!??
The transfer of the hole points was a bit heath robinson..... I didn't even take a photo of it!
I drilled the ring first, then put a semi thick layer of marking blue around each hole. Then positioned it accurately over the die and lowered it onto it.
A light bit of pressure to make the blue transfer and lift off the ring, 4 marked holes inside 4 splodges of blue. The clear points in the centre of the blue were lined up by eye and drilled with a stub drill... I worked very well... Could be that it was a good idea or that it was just lucky, I'd like to think I could repeat the process. :)
Ralph.
I think 1,800 rpm was a tad too fast Ralph. I'm guessing but have a go at around 300rpm next time and see how it goes. SS + speed takes the edge right off HSS in an instant.
You must have a good eye Ralph, and a bit of luck. But hey if it worked then it worked.
If you are going to repeat this could you not make some little punches, slip them in the holes, lower the top piece on and tap it with a hammer. Then you would have nicely centered punch marks ready made.
-
Darren,
If you are going to repeat this could you not make some little punches, slip them in the holes, lower the top piece on and tap it with a hammer. Then you would have nicely centered punch marks ready made.
They are called transfer punches, and worth their weight in gold.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Axminster-Transfer-Punch-Set-23518.htm
You can buy all different sets, Imperial (the one shown), metric and drill sized. You can get them cheaper than this by searching around, and for the cost of them, you couldn't make them yourself for that price, by the time you bought all the diffent sizes of silver steel.
Ralph,
No vice involved, just plywood or hardwood (shaped), a couple of panel pins, some heat and a gentle touch.
When I get time, I will make up a little post to show you how.
John
-
You just can't invent anything these days can you John...... :D
-
VERY Nice!
Loving it.. (Work kept me off the board for the last few days)
Im thinking one of those is going to be a really cool item when complete.
-
Darren,
You just can't invent anything these days
I repeat this on all the sites I have ever belonged to, when someone comes up with a statement like yours.
Mechanically, there have been very few new real inventions. Just old ones that have been rediscovered, updates to old designs, or ones that were designed but couldn't have been made reliable in the past, but can be made now due to materials and technology advances.
The Victorians and before were a real brainy bunch. Bring those people into this era, and I am sure new inventions would be popping up every day.
John
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Right... A few replies....
Darren,
I am not intending to have to repeat the hole marking, I just think I could if I needed to. The transfer punches were in the head at the time but I have non nor the cash to buy any right now. Not even sure if they do any that short?
I know this was at John but in answer to the invention statement... There has to be something to fix the doodad with a watchamacallit faster and more efficiently than with a thacktwacker? doesn't there? ... Also I have things on my shelves that I'm still searching patent logs about before I part with my hard earned! :thumbup:
(Top secwet, you know the rules? Tell anyone and your chances of the patent are void!!)
John,
Ralph,
No vice involved, just plywood or hardwood (shaped), a couple of panel pins, some heat and a gentle touch.
When I get time, I will make up a little post to show you how.
I'm waiting patiently :bang: :)
Scott,
Glad you like it so far. :)
I'm hoping that it looks half as cool as some I've seen... As I said I think the prototype will wobble a bit. But I'm on my way to curing that in the next one :dremel:
Right one more reply to make and I'm off to the pub :thumbup:
Ralph.
-
Ralph,
Unless you have the "gonads" ie tons of cash to back a fight, then a patent ain't worth the paper it's written on.....
-
Half asleep after a powernap, here is the method used by model engineeers for thousands of years. Well before everyone started to make their own tube benders.
C-o-C's explain it all.
Get thin piece of wood.
Around one corner, shape the curvature of the bend you require.
Down the centre (widthwise) file a half round groove to the diameter of your tube, to the depth of half the diameter (use your Dremel, or the caveman equivalent). It should shallow off and blend into the straight sides at the end of each curve. This supports the pipe at the point of max bend in the middle.
Light your fire or blowtorch and heat the area you want to bend on your pipe. Hold it long enough while heating, and your body's natural reflexes will tell you when it is time to let go, so it is better you hold the pipe with pliers or something similar. When the pipe is up to bright red, drop said pipe into puddle or bucket of water to cool off a bit.
Forget the tube for the moment, and go back to your piece of wood. Calculate how much of a straight you want on your pipe before it starts to bend, and position a nail or pin that distance away from the start of the groove in your wooden bending fixture.
Pick up your now very soft tube, place the end against the nail and hold the pipe in that position with the fingers of one hand. With the fingers on the other hand, push the tube gently but firmly around the bend using a smoothing action to push the tube to the botom of the groove. This should all be done in one very smooth action, in one hit. Because if it work hardens half way thru the operation, you have got to go thru the burnt fingers routine again.
As shown on the C-o-C, this super fixture can be used for up to four different curvatures.
Patents Pending Bogs
-
Hey hey!
I have a couple possible ideas for ya.
There are a type of bearing that.. I actually dont know the term for. BUT... its a needle bearing that has a bearing surface in the vertical component, like a conventional bearing race. However it also has a shoulder, and a thrust bearing surface on the bottom, with needle bearings.
I would think you could utilise one of those bearings in the upper surface to support the weight, as well as handle the rotational motions to keep stability.
Now another idea.. this one is kinda interesting.. and I have no idea how well it would work...
The center shaft, where it is up in the support, with what Im assuming would be brass bearing surfaces. How do you keep it lubricated properly? Well... I was thinking of that.. and how about drilling a very very very small hole up the center of the shaft, and a hole out each side of it inside the bearing surface. Similar to the method for lubricating the eccentric shaft on Mazdas... not sure what other engines use the same method for lubricating bearings.
And you could also have a small port that aims at the load surface that it rides on.. assuming it has a surface the bearing rides on.
I dont know how the steam would act agains teh brass bearing surface.. but I would think a single drop of oil in with the water might be an idea.
:)
-
Darren,
I'm not holding out too many hopes.... I've been reading up on the whole process of patents for 2 years or so and it all seems like a con to me.... Problem is, how do I get stuff made by a company and not get ripped off in the process otherwise?!
John,
So simple it should be taught in schools! :) I will attempt it the next time I hit the 'shop :dremel:
Scott,
Well now, there's a lot to get my head around!!
The bearings sound kind of interesting... Possibly expensive? I have some ball races that would suffice. They have a shoulder to hold them in easier and will not be subjected to much heat and a very small amount of residual steam/moisture. They would also probably be run with an extreamly light oil, possibly diesel?
The centre shaft idea is just a thought... I'm not sure it will work until I get the pipes installed? I don't want to make it too complex! This is an understatement when you consider what I am going through trying to make it!! The over top bearing may yet still be employed... The good bit is a quick heat up and the bits I'm trying will fall out and new ideas can be soldered in :)
I know what you mean about a lubrication delivery system but I'm as I said trying to keep it simple! I don't think it would need one? It will only require a lube' every few runs if I have my figurings correct?!
There will also be no need for any oil in the water as no moving parts will get bathed in either water or steam.
I'm not knocking your ideas...such ideas are what this forum is all about, sharing :thumbup: Just stating what I'm trying for... Cheep and easy.... There's a joke in there somewhere!?!
I'll give the Boggie bender a go (erm!!) and then see where it gets me! ... We will go from there with a new direction if it sucks!
Right going to leave it there before too many other innuendos pop up!
Ralph.
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Here they are!
The place I have the link from they are expensive with EVERYTHING...
The type of bearing is called a Nadella bearing.
Pegasus Auto Racing is the place I saw them on a quick glance.
(http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/3080.JPG)
I know it may be overkill :)
-
I'll talk to you privately Ralph about some first hand exp...offline as it doesn't belong here...
-
There are a type of bearing that.. I actually dont know the term for. BUT... its a needle bearing that has a bearing surface in the vertical component, like a conventional bearing race. However it also has a shoulder, and a thrust bearing surface on the bottom, with needle bearings.
From the picture you posted I would call that both a radial and axial bearing. I don't think they make them as small as Ralph would need them. Although he could make his own axial bearing using some ball bearings.
I'll leave it at that. Don't want to hi-jack the thread with other info.
Bernd
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Hi Ralph
Bin thinking about your bearings. :scratch:
Come up with cheap and chearful option you could try on your prototype.
What you need
1:- Ball bearing say 1/8" dia ther's plenty of places you can get them
2:- Silver steel say 1/8" same as the bearing.
3:- Phos bronze.
What you do
1:- Virtical bearing (the spinning ball sits on this) small bush with a blind hole 1/8 dia with the ball bearing at the bottom, the spinning ball connected to the silver steel shaft you can harden and nicely polish it, this will give you a point contact low friction bearing.
2:- Horizontal bearing at the top of the ball just the 1/8 silver steel running in a plain phos bronze bush.
I hope you follow this.
I'll post a C-O-C tonight when I get home
This project's all balls :lol: :lol:
Have
:wave:
Fun
Stew
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Stew,
I think Ralph is going to use a single bearing due to the burner having to go at the bottom.
John
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Ha yes :doh: didn't think that one through.
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Well.....
I think Ralph is going to use a single bearing due to the burner having to go at the bottom.
This is not entirely correct at the mo' John.... I'm toying with a spike right up it !!! :bugeye:
I'm just trying it to see how it reacts? You got to try the silly simple stuff first and work your way up to super complex ehh?
Your idea Stew is not a hundred miles off from what I'm going to try first.... I'm just not going to employ a ball bearing at this time :)
Something like this.... Oh and I got a pirate version of Crap 'o' Cad from the pound shop today :lol: (it comes in Quad colour.... Just decided not to use the green :headbang: )
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Crap-o-Cad/img069.jpg)
Still pretty crappy in the hands of an unskilled artist though!! ::) The jets will look very different in reality!!
Stew, your C-o-C's are still welcomed, They may inspire another approach?
To everyone who contributes and adds their opinions, thank you for taking the time to think about my workings.... It all helps. What I or someone does not use on todays project will certainly be useful in next weeks or even one next year! :thumbup:
I'm taking everything on board.... I've just got to put it into practice!
Ralph.
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Ralph
One suggestion. Move the jets to the upper part of the sphere so there is room for steam accumulation and more available water. A pair of bearings in be base will be a bit more stable as well.
Steve
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I don't see why the spike method wouldn't work. The old style tire balancers used a similar method.
Point the jets up slightly to keep it planted, or it might just take off on ya. I doubt a steam filled metal ball sailing around the room would do the decor much good!
-
They don't like it up em Captain Manering. :lol: but I like that idea. :thumbup:
I pressed the delete on my c-o-c but I can reserrect it, in fact I've had a new idea, bit late to sort out the posting bean setting up new printer and its past my bed time. :coffee: I'll post them tomorrow.
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Steve... "The jets will look very different in reality!! " I should have said "this drawing is as crap as it gets and they were only added for effect!!" The idea is still to emulate the Karsten design a little in that area :)
I think he hit the nail well and truly on the head with his designs... I'm just trying to make some fun things as gifts etc :thumbup:
There is no problem with Stews suggestion, I'm just working my way through the ways and means... I want to know I've tried all the aproaches I can think of, as well as those that others have already made (clearly they work!)
Roger,
I think your right about the jets.... If you see the rate that the Karsten ones spin at then it could well take a spinning leap into the general area of those watching!! (Not good!) I hadn't got that far to see yet :)
I'll try to get in the 'shop friday I think? See if I can't make a boggie wonder bender and get some jets made :dremel:
We will see.... Experiments here we come :zap: :dremel:
Stew.... That's a bit of an "in" joke.... But damn funny :lol:
Looking forward to the new ideas.... Still waiting for the one Bernd said he had about a frame? :poke:
Ralph.
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Ralph,
Piddle on time. :(
Your single point bearing system, I think, will cause you a few sleepless nights. :bang:
That method is OK if you use one at either end of the ball. Having one point bearing will mean you will have to have it perfectly balanced to prevent oscillations and so large amounts of friction. Especially as you will be using a very unstable medium ie boiling water, that just cannot be balanced due to the formation of differing sizes of bubbles.
I have done a C-o-C to show what I originally thought you were going to do.
Bogs
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Looking forward to the new ideas.... Still waiting for the one Bernd said he had about a frame? :poke:
Ralph.
I was all set to add some ideas and C-o-C. Went to upload to my web site and they had changed my pass word. Spent the last couple of hours getting everything working again. Now my head hurts. :bang:
Hopefully I'll get something tomorrow.
Bernd
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Hi Chaps
My other idead is the same as the one John just posted great minds think alike, the only thing I can add is if you could get a taper roller bearing small enough it would be just the ticket :thumbup:.
I'll still post the C-O-C any way, I need to learn how to post off scans, up to now I've been taking phots and posting these.
:offtopic:
Sorry about the "Dad's Army Joke" I forgot that our colonial friends may not get that programme, when we're on obout the 20th re-run,
still wet myselve on the "Don't tell him Pike" gag, :lol: :lol: :lol:
the old ones are the best.
Have Fun
:wave:
Stew
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John,
That is still the general idea.... I just decided to try other stuff too :dremel: It's all a bit of fun funding these things out :)
Don't worry I'm not going to let the side down :thumbup:
No rush Bernd.... How did they (who are they? :borg: ) change your password? That sounds a bit more than annoying!
What's your name? .... well with friends like that!! :)
the old ones are the best.
Mmmmm, are you sure about that Stew? .... I just think they have had longer to learn from more mistakes!! :lol: (I know wierd sense of humour!)
Can you get taper rollers that small? (13mm OD, 5mm ID) I suppose they make em? I'll have a look around,check the pricing!
Got loads of little ball bearings to use first though :thumbup:
Well got work soon so..... Till later :wave:
Ralph.
-
I know this post my be a little late to the party but here is a great book on using the H type press for making shapes and stampings of sheet metal.
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=106.0 (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=106.0)
Along with a type of forum for users of a jewelry type or style of press.OR more correctly it is set up as an old style board. http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com/ceilidh/ceilidh.html (http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com/ceilidh/ceilidh.html)
They use the Masonite,hardboard, and Lexan plastic along with Derlin for the die's forms and the big time use of urethane rubber of assorted hardness's. It also covers making a type of hinged cut out die for cutting out limited run numbers of silver sheet jewelry parts that can be used for the softer non ferrous metals.
Boony Doon also makes a type of saw that is used to cut out the flap die punch. Most all the info can be adapted to general home shop type use.
I can also recommend the book that I linked to in the resources it covers most answers etc.
Here is also a great resource for info on the use of urethane products. Source for those across the pond but it is a US source but you maybe able to track down the type of products near you!.
http://www.acrotechinc.com/ (http://www.acrotechinc.com/)
:thumbup:
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Ralph,
They didn't get my pass word. What ISP does is not let you in to your site. They send you a new pass word to get in and then you change it to what you want. It was for security reasons. I'm back running again. Still need to clear up one issue and then I'll be all set.
Ok, now on to my suggestions. After looking at that last C-o-C of yours I figured that ball won't probably run very good on a pivot such as you had drawn. Here's my idea I'd like to enter for your brain to think about.
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/Madmodder/ball1.jpg)
On a shaft mount two bearings make sure the shaft is about 3/4 the length of the ball dia. :scratch: I'm sure you got that, but just incase. Let's say the ball is 2" in dia. you would make the shaft 1.75" long to mount the ball bearings on.
Now comes the part about making it look "pretty", at least I think so. I have done this type of work(?) since I was very young and enjoy it very much. It's called "fret work". I believe it acutally started in the UK eons ago. Here's a link to better understand what's involved: Fret Work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretwork)
And here's some of the work I've done. It's a piece of wood 1/8" thick X 2.5" wide X 3.375" long. Bascially you glue a pattern on the wood and cut it out. Same can be done with 1/8" thick metal (brass, copper,etc.).
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/Madmodder/ball2.jpg)
And here's an example C-o-C of what I envision for a Heron's Aeolipile"
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/Madmodder/ball3.jpg)
Of course you could make it a lot fancier than my C-o-C, but you get the idea.
So that's my input to your project of a Aeoipile.
Oh I get a commission on all that you make from my ideas by the way. I want to get paid in gold though. :lol:
Regards,
Bernd
P.S. I found another web site that better represents fret work: http://www.woodworkzone.com/shelley/fretwork/fretwork_clocks.htm (http://www.woodworkzone.com/shelley/fretwork/fretwork_clocks.htm)
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Hi Ralph
Looks like I've got this scanning thing sorted. :thumbup:
Idea 1: Not to good as it'l get in the way of the flame.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/sc00008ce1.jpg)
Whoops the B****rs upside down :lol:
Idea 2: Same as John's idea but my C-o-C is more artistic.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/sc0000cca1.jpg)
Idea 3: Uses picture frame wire and a fishing swivel as used on lures (spinners)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/sc0000ef45.jpg)
I think your information banks are averflowing now.
Have Fun
:wave:
Stew
-
Ok, I think I have enough to run with?! Well there's plenty of things to try anyway... That'll keep me busy for months :D
Bernd.... Holy fretwork batman!!!! :jaw: That site is quite astounding.... I am not sure of my patience levels meeting that kind of requirement! :scratch:
The bearing idea is one to think about... And I have had a little help from elsewhere too :thumbup:
Stew,
The upsidedown version would be quite interesting... How would I get the flames to travel down and the water to stay at the top? :lol:
The string is definately out! too easy!
The bearing over version is one that I saw a long time ago when I first started looking into this toy (bout 2.5 years ago!) I'm just trying not to copy it... Even though it is probably the best solution?!
I saw your other post on the metals.... The goblet should be used.... Should be fun :) Give it a go, it has every chance of turning out to be a nice piece? :dremel:
PT,
Never too late to a party that is no where near finished :wave: The links will be investigated :thumbup:
Ralph.
-
Its :poke:
About :poke:
Time :poke:
Ralph :poke:
Had :poke:
Another :poke:
Post :poke:
On This Link :poke:
Stew
-
Here's one......
:ddb: (we need a tongue pulling smiley!!)
I'm kinda busy..... Well I have been a bit!! :D
I'm working on other stuff too you know.... Top secwet! :thumbup:
I'll get something done soon enough.....
Ralph.
-
Whats funny.. I was talking to my best friend just yesterday, and we were talking about your Aerophile..... and I tooo was wondering what the status is :poke:
:D
-
Oh O!! .... Being discussed.... This is serious!
I'd better pull my finger out ehh?!?
I'll dedicate an evening to it in the week.... There are a lot of design issues to sort through.... I want this to be repeatable!! :smart:
I could have probably finished a one off ages ago!
I'll try a bit harder to get the prototype finished and spinning :dremel:
Ralph.
-
Its :poke:
About :poke:
Time :poke:
Ralph :poke:
Had :poke:
Another :poke:
Post :poke:
On This Link :poke:
Stew
Ah.................. I'll add a :poke:
Bernd
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Ralph,
I told you when we were down the scrapyard, you should have grabbed a few of those brass balls spheres.
John
-
Wasn't there someone on this site doing a project on Heron's Aeolipile :scratch:.
Stew
:poke:
:lol:
-
Well here's how it is guys.....
I got all the bench cleaned down last week after I'd made the mill power drive mechanics. I got out the Aeolipile tray from under the bench and got it all tidy (so far so good!)
Then I sat there designing some bits and bobs, scribbling some ideas down to aid in the construction (As you do!)
Then it got late and I was getting drowsy, so I went in and that was it for the night.
I went back into the shop quickly on sunday to grab some stuff I needed and in my haste I managed to send the ball flying across the 'shop :jaw: :doh: :bang:
It hit the concrete with a thud and a pop! It now has a dent in it's side and a split around it's join..... As you might imagine I was not too happy with this and might have said "bother" a few times.... Or words to that effect!
So in conclusion to this post..... I'm going to start to make the new MkII when I find a cheap supply of cartridge brass sheet 0.5-0.7mm thick! (and about 150mm square!)
I'll finish at least one of these if it kills me!
Ralph :(
-
Ralph
A bit of a bummer denting your ball like that :(
Getting hold of the (70/30) cartridge brass may be a bit difficult, one source could be a fired shell case, you see them nocking about the scrap yard, people have used them for umbrella stands etc, you'd have to cut them down the length and open them up. I'll keep an eye open for you.
Good Luck
Stew
-
Ralph,
Would a bit of hot water cylinder do?
There were plenty down the scrappies.
John
-
in my haste I managed to send the ball flying across the 'shop
Pics or it didn't happen! We're not gonna let you off the hook so easy.
-
Gee Ralph, I'm sorry to cause so much grieve. All I wanted to know is if you were still going to build one since we, the :borg:, haven't heard (read) anything about your progress. Last I knew you were experimenting with pressing out half a sphere with that press you had.
I'd be willing to send you some .020" thick sheet brass if that is what you need. Have some in my stock.
Ok, I'll crawl back in my hole now. :D
Bernd
-
Ah .............. progress ............ or lack of ............ :scratch: anyway good to catch up with this thread
btw did we end up with any links to metal spinning .............. if not ....................
&feature=related
These guys make it look so easy :med:
CC
-
OH MAN.... Im sorry to hear that. :(
I have had projects go the route of crunch a few times... and its really demoralizing. Now you have the chance to make it better :whip:
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Dave,
Sticking two of the second ones together is a bit larger than Ralph envisioned. Keeping it on the boil would be the problem.
John
-
Ummm, 11 pages and I did not read them all but did anyone check out copper toilet floats? :scratch:
-
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
-
So.... Yes it happened... Pic's tonight :worthless: I know!
Hot water cylinders are too thick, I don't want to go down the route of a pre-made ball.... That'd be cheeting IMO.
As said, I'll make one!
Stew, if you could keep your eyes open that'd be great :thumbup:
Bernd, it'd probably cost too much and be economically unviable.... Thank you for the offer :thumbup:
I'll search for some, but will probably end up using a tougher mix like the last time!
I might even use (Are you reading Ian?) a bottomless die to press the next efforts?
At least I have had a little brain stormer on the holder design!!
It'll all come together soon ::)
Ralph.
-
Ralph, I have a large roll off brass sheet, almost too heavy to pick up.
I'll measure it's thickness later for you :thumbup:
-
Sounds good to me Darren :thumbup:
I'll swap some for some of this brass bar I still got!
Now as someone (mentioning no Roge erm, names) didn't believe me....!?
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC03436.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC03437.jpg)
There is also another slightly smaller dent on another part of it too!
And the cause....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/Herons%20Wind%20ball/DSC03439.jpg)
The nest of wiring etc from the phone kit I removed from my dads new car.... Yes, I should have stored it better etc, etc....
But I didn't and the result has now happened and I cannot change that..... So, onwards and upwards!
If I tried I'm sure it could be repaired? But I'll probably spend less time making a new one!
CC, I've gone into the spinning thing. I was originally going to build the parts required for spinning (got 3 double DVD's etc) but then got the press and wanted to try it that way... I'll still try the spinning one day.... Just wanted to do it this way at the time!
This thread will continue..... Just a lot later than advertised..... I might finish making my 4 mini finger engines first instead? :proj:
Ralph.
-
I blame the snickers, distracted you no doubt.... :lol:
That doesn't look too bad, should easily sort that out Ralph?
The brass I have is 6 inch wide 1mm thick, any good to you?