Author Topic: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail  (Read 50396 times)

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2014, 07:27:13 AM »
Got the control standard re-fitted - set it pointing sideways, not into the cab, for testing - enough to  do getting the tractor accurately lined up and onto the 'jaws' It'll be far easier next time as the legs will have it set at the correct height. I ended up using a 'come along' where the top link goes, and pulled the tractor and flail together while jacking under the spars to get the height right. All good fun.

The objective today was to get it mounted and prove that it didn't twist too much. I've not yet filled the big 25 gallon hydraulic tank on the flail, as I'm still waiting for a bung. Worth pointing out that there are two entirely separate hydraulic systems:

A: the big PTO powered pump, the 25 gallon tank, and the 24 horse power motor that spins the flail itself

B: The tractor hydraulics that power the three double acting control pistons that articulate the flail head into position for cutting.

So I was able to prove out the articulation, but not yet spin the flail

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2014, 07:33:20 AM »
As you can see in the pictures there is remarkably little twist, and this is without the counter balance weight and tank full of oil (that is offset as a counterbalance)

I don't have the correct weights, but have some with a very similar fitting designed to go onto a narrower mounting bar. They sort of fit but would bounce off if the going got rough.

I thought I'd fit them and try it at full stretch and see what happens.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2014, 07:41:53 AM »
Still remarkably little twist, which is a big relief all round  :ddb:

Still have to:

A/ Fill up the 25 gallon tank

B/ Source replacement hoses for the PTO pump

C/ Fit two nuts to the left hand bracket - at the moment it's only held by two of it's four mounting bolts as the nuts were on back order - entails taking the wheel off to get at them  :(

D/ Sort out a 'reaction anchor' for the pump - it has a chain that needs fixing somewhere to stop the pump housing turning

E/ Fix the detent for the tractor hydraulic service lever as it keeps springing back to centre

F/ Work out exactly how the controls will poke into the cab and get them there

Also I would anticipate a few of the articulation hoses are going to need renewing as it has sat idle for a few years.

However jolly nearly there now - just as well, 1st August is the first day we can legally cut farm hedges in the UK
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2014, 07:59:39 AM »
OK. I get it now. I thought it was only for maintenance. Very different case here.

You are doing very impressive job here and it's almost finished.

Even look of that overhang makes me feel uncomfortable. Once I fell  a small front loader, just a little more list that I'm used to, little turn and scoop full of stuff and not even high. Swing-smash-outch.

We had Ford 5600 on our farm. My father still has it. Lot of fun finding replacement bolts and stuff.

Pekka

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2014, 09:17:05 AM »
New hitch parts look good Andrew. The lower arm to axle attachments look strong.

I know you've used this rig before so it's known to be operational with your tractor. But  now it's stiffer and heavier and that top link and its attachment look like they must be in for a lot of side and impact stress when this rig is working. I only say that because I once saw a cast iron tractor differential housing break a chunk off under tension at the attachment and split. Not a pretty sight.

Don't break your tractor :poke:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2014, 01:01:22 PM »
Thanks for the kind words Steve.

Yes the top link is taking quite a large load - I plan to buy a 'heavy duty' one - this one is 'regular duty' - difference being a thicker walled tube, and the threads are 1 1/4" UNC as opposed to 1 1/8" UNC on the 'regular duty' ones. Mind you the flail was supposed to be mounted this way and only has a hole for a 'Cat 1' pin for the top link. Couldn't order one until the flail was mounted as it was virtually impossible to predict how long it was going to need to be - as it happens it's worked out as the standard length for this tractor, which is 25" nominal (ie mid adjustment)

This afternoon I ignored the rain and got on with things.

I filled up the 25 gallon hydraulic tank (no leaks on the fittings or the level indicator)

I drained 25 litres from the back axle and removed the right hand rear wheel to get at the brake actuator seal, which I replaced (it was leaking too much to tolerate).

I took the left hand rear wheel off, and fitted the missing nuts for the flail axle bracket

I fitted the replacement rear wheels that have far less splits than the originals (!)

So the list is getting ticked off slowly.

Tomorrows task is to sort out the pipes for the PTO pump



Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2014, 07:06:10 AM »
So the day started removing the feed pipe from the PTO pump and examining what it's ends were.  1" BSP cone fitting at the far end, but an SAE flange on the pump. Local agri-hydraulic place didn't have the SAE flange fitting so I just bought the pipe reasoning I can recover the fittings and re-use from the old pipe, as this is not a pressure pipe - in fact it will be under negative pressure.

So I set about sawing the old fittings off and re-using their barbs
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2014, 07:09:18 AM »
The result was altogether more sanitary than the old one :ddb:

Note I used 'Band-IT' hose clamps. I bought a Band-IT kit at a boot fair many years ago and it is very handy for these little jobs and far neater than Jubilee clips. The Band-IT system uses a stainless steel continuous band, a clamp, and a special tensioning tool
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2014, 07:14:16 AM »
The output hose from the pump, though not in it's first flush of youth, looked serviceable, so I re-mounted the pump and its plumbing.

The pump of course wants to rotate as it just sits on the PTO shaft, so it has a chain to restrain it
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2014, 07:16:44 AM »
So time to try it out. Started the engine, set the pto turning, and low and behold we have a loud swishing sound.

... not quite the right sound . . what's going on. At this point I looked at the ground only to see a large oil slick making it's way across the yard  :bang:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2014, 07:21:53 AM »
Like a complete twit, I had put the restraining chain on the wrong side, the pump had rotated, and torn the output hose -arrgh  :bang: :bang:

Changed the chain to the other side, and called a travelling bloke who makes up hoses, as there is no way I'd use the Band-IT approach on pressure hoses.

Looking at the parts drawings the pump is actually illustrated 'swung up' rather than 'swung down' as I have it so presumably the restraint chain would have to go round the top link - I may relocate it when chappy comes to make up the hose
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #61 on: July 28, 2014, 08:26:58 AM »
Hi there, Andrew,

I'm sorry to read of your set-back.  I hope the hose man comes without too much delay.

It isn't clear (to me) from your pictures - what keeps the hydraulic pump in the correct axial position on the PTO shaft?

Comparing the finish of your new spars with the yet to be done flail tank, I was reminded of Rust-Oleum paint.  The story was that the original Rust-Oleum formula was developed by a fishing trawler captain who noticed that the trawler deck area where the catch was gutted never rusted.  If that was true, maybe that original formula would have stood being applied over residual hydraulic oil?!?!  Trouble is, the paint manufacturers all seem to have changed their formulae recently.  My ML7 stands on a home-made swarf tray and cabinet finished in the original Valspar, I think it was described as 'three hour enamel'.  It's still looking good after 44 years! 
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2014, 08:27:47 AM »
I'm sure it works, Andrew, but that chain restraint seems mickey-mouse to me, and puts shock point stress on the cast pump aluminum gear housing and bending stress on the PTO shaft, since the pump is so far out with no support.

On the backhoe, which also has a PTO driven pump, it's bolted securely to the tractor frame. Now I realize the point was to make the pump more easily removable in this case, but a chain? There are plenty of ways to make solid, but removable attachments -- hitch pins for instance, seen on, well, practically all tractor implements. Or they could have mounted the pump solidly on the flail frame and used a universal PTO shaft.

Failing that, if they insisted on a chain, gosh why not two? One on each side. That would have prevented the damage from a mistake and restrained the pump in case one or the other chain had failed.

Apparently saving the cost of another foot of chain was worth more then the damage of connecting it to the "wrong" side". Or in the case of a broken chain or casting (a distinct possibility) the effect of a flailing hose and chain on a farm worker.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2014, 09:16:41 AM »
Pete and Steve, thanks for your kind words.

Pete, that tank is probably not going to be painted - it would require a major strip down that isn't going to happen (unless perhaps in extremis!) It could have a 'slap of paint' job, but they always look terrible close up. PTO shafts have a groove cut into them through the splines, and attachments have an arrangement that clips into the groove to stop them moving axially.

Steve, I agree the chain is micky mouse - but that's the original design, features in the parts diagram etc. I suppose it does let it float, and the pto is only doing 540 rpm. More modern flails do have a rigidly mounted hydraulic pump with a pto shaft
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 11:13:39 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2014, 01:49:34 PM »
I feel pain of the misshap, hopefully gets fixed economically

It isn't clear (to me) from your pictures - what keeps the hydraulic pump in the correct axial position on the PTO shaft?

There is a groove on the PTO splined shaft. Also there is  spring loaded detent (pin or balls) that you press in when you mate the splined shaft, the detent will pop up and lock into the groove and holds the pump in plase. Just like cardan shaft.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?s=39b06f80feec7f2314ef3410c95c82d2&attachmentid=271666&d=1366761349

http://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?s=39b06f80feec7f2314ef3410c95c82d2&attachmentid=271602&d=1366760958

Pin is ofcourse more prone to something, although these should be protected. Some horrendous accident has happened when something has been jiggeled into PTO and if not seated victim has reached into PTO clutch to ease it a little.

Pekka

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2014, 05:36:52 AM »
The 'Man in a Van' hose repairer has just left having replaced the burst hose.

I took the opportunity to rotate the pump so that the restraint lug points upwards, and I'm now chaining it to the top link in the absence of anything else at that height to fix it to.

So now to try it spinning. With a great woosh of air through the system as it sorted itself out, a spinning sound and yes we have a big scary flail spinning at a rate of knots. This would do you very considerable damage if you went too close  :bugeye:

As soon as it starts being used in earnest all that superficial rust will be knocked off down to bare metal by the stuff it flails, ready to rust again over the coming winter  :(
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 10:59:10 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2014, 05:53:01 AM »
So far the 'control standard' has been outside the cab, but it needs adjusting and inserting though the back window before I can use the flail.

What's preventing me at the moment is one frozen joint - The top of the vertical 1"  bar sits in a socket so that it can be rotated to suit and then locked by a set screw. It's been stuck all the time I've had the flail, and has been liberally anointed with plus gas for weeks. This morning I tickled it with the oxy-acetylene torch and managed to turn it by a few degrees in one direction as I could brace it against a block of wood resting on the articulating arm. Can't move it the other way as nothing to brace it against  :scratch:

It needs more heat on it, but the thing it supports is the three way hydraulic spool valve block, and I daren't put to much heat near it or I'll ruin it's o ring seals. Now the control arms are telescopic, and if completely withdrawn would let me unbolt the spool valve, slip it out of harms way, and roast the stuck joint - easy peasy.

...well life's not like that is it  :bang: The telescopic arms are set to length then each locked by a 1/4" whitworth grubscrew. Two loosen nicely - the third is rounded on its 1/8" hex socket and refuses to budge. I was just setting up to cook it a bit more when Mr Hose man arrived - so back to the grind stone ...
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2014, 06:22:27 AM »
.......... and I'm now chaining it to the top link in the absence of anything else at that height to fix it to.......

Andrew - once everything is in use, I know the pump won't "flail" around but it'll probably rock&roll a bit as the rig moves and/or the head/pump power is varied. Can't tell from the photo how close the chain is to the inboard end of the top link sleeve, or how much scope it has to move - but I wonder if that chain may scuff the threads on the top link.  I know parcelling it with baggy-wrinkle wouldn't last but wonder if some slightly more robust anti-chafing might be needed IF the chain is as close as it looks.

Dave

Offline RussellT

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2014, 06:45:48 AM »
Hi Andrew

Could you unbolt the control valve block and use the movement in the levers to pull it away a few millimeters to prevent heat conduction?

Failing that how about drilling out the grub screw - easy to keep centred and probably with a shaped point so it should release before you have to drill the threads.  You might then be able to unscrew the remainder.

Russell

Common sense is unfortunately not as common as its name suggests.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2014, 10:17:26 AM »
DMIOM - the 'Heavy Duty' top link was delivered this PM so I'll be removing it anyway and looking for a more satisfactory locating method - I agree about the threads chaffing

Russell, your suggestion is what I actually did, except I completely removed it - see below:

OK setting too to remove that grub screw, firstly I tapered a larger allan key and tried tapping it in - no go. Then I heated the collar with oxy-acetylene and tried again - no go. Then I re-heated until the grub screw was red (and thus soft), then drilled it out with a 5.1 mm drill (tapping size for 1/4" Whitworth) which freed the three sliding rods
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2014, 10:18:32 AM »
Getting the square bar to slide inside the box tube was fun, but a big hammer and some more heat won in the end  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2014, 10:19:58 AM »
This allowed me to unbolt the spool valve block, and remove it's extension operating rods
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2014, 10:22:13 AM »
So at last I could remove the cranked standard, put it in the vice with it's top mounting for the spool valves, and put some serious heat into it. Ended up getting it glowing before it submitted and would come free  :bugeye:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2014, 10:27:10 AM »
The plate onto which the spool valve block fixes has an instruction plate riveted with 'tap tite' rivets - this is the first time ever that I've actually been able to knock these things out from the rear to preserve the aluminium label  :thumbup:

So a bit of a clean up, grit blasted in my blasting chamber, and a coat of paint made things look much nicer. Note the length of convoluted pipe masking the 3/4" bar that slides into the box section. This bit had a very light spray of zinc rich paint and will be re-assembled smothered in Shell Ensis preserving oil.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Mounting a Tractor Hedge Flail
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2014, 10:29:13 AM »
So now I need to investigate why the roller that runs parallel to the flail is not rolling! I assume that the bearings have rusted up, I need to pull it off to order some more.

Paint can dry a bit over night and perhaps I'll get the controls back tomorrow
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex