The Craftmans Shop > PowerSports

A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces

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nickle:
Steve,

This is a really interesting project and I am hanging out for every post. I nearly cheered out loud when I watched your video of the engine running.

Because this is a load bearing structure that will lift all manner of loads over its life (that hook on the bucket looks useful) I think it is well worth thinking through the structure and making it as bomb proof as possible.

I wonder if there is a thick walled pipe or tube that could be turned down to fit inside the existing tubing without losing too much strength?  That pipe will be in compression when under load with the one inch bar over the top of the web in tension so buckling will be the likely failure mode of the pipe. Making the join under the webbing with an internal sleeve should help prevent that. I think the plug welds will be a good idea also.

The other thing that is on my mind is the reduction in cross bracing. The Wagner had a lot of diagonal bracing between the arms and the ford arms lack that. This might end up producing a set of arms which twist more and sway from side to side more. The bracing on your Wagner arms has had a hard life judging by the damage so it must carry some load when in use. Maybe it would be worth replicating the tube between the webbing on the Wagner with new material and diagonally bracing to the ford cross member.

As far as length goes how hard would it be to find someone on the web to measure an un modified set of Wagner arms? There seems to be a few mentions on various tractor forums with pictures of restored and un modified loaders. Maybe someone will be able to help.

I'm looking forward to seeing you pull this together and shift some earth. It's a great project and will be a real asset to you.

Regards

Nick

vtsteam:
Thank you all for help and suggestions!

Here's an updated photo before going further,

You can see the upper tubes have been shortened and the web extensions which were left. Also the round tie rods were left intact. The Ford Dearborn bucket end has a heavy cross tube and gussets for support. It uses dual hydraulic cylinders at each side of the bucket/arm structure. You can see the attach points and gussets for these.

The Wagner arms used a single hydraulic cylinder. It was attached to a much lighter cross beam higher up on the arms, with diagonal tube supports. It was this whole hydraulic support structure that didn't fare well over time -- the pressures are enormous, and applied between the arms. I think the Ford design is better. It localizes the pressure and doesn't try to break the arms apart or put big bending stresses on the cross beam. I think that is why it lasted better.

Nevertheless there was some repair sistering of the lower tube with angle iron -- you can see it here. Stresses over time flex and fatigue these transition areas where gussets stop. Modern arms are built differently -- usually rectangular section and tapered to prevent stress points. They also tend to be shorter -- the earliest loader arms look overly long in the old advertisements I've seen -- often loading bales of hay into barn lofts. They weren't considered as much earth moving implements as used for manure shifting and hay lifting. the early fifties saw a shift in function, so these are somewhere in between.

vtsteam:
Sorry, couldn't progress with the tractor -- it rained all day.  :(

Scuba1:
I love this thread as I like to rebuild and tinker with old machinery myself and to be honest i never gave the length and different functions of the old compared to new loaders a thought. Its great how this unravels the history of farm tractors.

ATB

Michael

vtsteam:
Thanks Michael. Here is some information I've collected on the Wagner and Ford Dearborn loaders.

Wagner frame --- looks like the bucket is quite far forward -- so that helps.



and a page from a brochure from an Ebay listing:

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