How do I remove my spindle to change bearings?

[SPiN Racing]

 

Ok soo... I have a Chinese lathe. From Wholesale Tool here in the US. Great lathe.. cheapish.. but has been really good for me.

http://www.wttool.com/index/page/product/product_id/14795/product_name/11%22+x+26%22+Lathe+with+Stand+(WT)

I have had it for about.. well not really sure.. 10 or so years. Had a motor start cap die while turning a lot of heavy stainless. Changed it out no sweat. Added a QC toolpost.. inserts.. its been fantastic.
Made a ball turner.. peck drill and have been able to do just about everything I have needed at this point.

Well I was doing some wheel spacers in aluminum (6 or so inches in diameter) a year or two ago.. and decided to be diligent, and like when working on my Chinese Bridgeport, which I oil up before each use.. Oil my ways and things. I then realized.. to my chagrin I hadn't been oiling my SPINDLE.

 

So yeah.. I didn't read the manual.. I saw a ball oiler and put spindle oil in it. BOTH bearings.
It had greasy oil come out around the spindle while running so I oiled it more.. several times.. till clean oil was coming out. Repeated many times over the weekend making the spacers.

Fast forward to a couple weeks back and I oiled things, and noticed a bit of run out on a longer piece I was trying to turn.

Research and some intensive reading and searching later.. I realized I WASNT supposed to oil the spindle bearings. You grease them. And the manual even calls for a bearing grease past the ball oiler. (not sure how)

SO I decided I need to replace the bearings. SO I realized they are a thrust style bearing etc.. similar to one from Grizzly. More research on torqueing bearings on and on.

SO taking off the lock nuts on the pullies.. gears etc.. get down to the key.. remove that.. and there is a sleeve on the spindle. NO way to remove it.. so I screw with it carefully for a hour or so.. and realize it SLIPS OFF.. very snug fit but was able to carefully remove by hand.

I remove the LOCKS on the 3 jaw chuck on the other side.. and realize... DUH!!!    The damn spindle was finger tight. NOT snugged up. So its tiny wobble was from that.

SO happily I clean things up and as I decide to put it back together.. I check for play.. get out my dial indicator and start checking things.. and realize.. with my bad hearing.. I hear a tiny metallic clicking noise..... from the bearings.

 

SOoo my bearings are NOT greased. Soooo I need to remove them and either re-grease.. or replace. At the least.. Inspect them.

However.. I can NOT remove them. I am not sure how.. I have looked and looked. I don't see any thread.. or lock rings.. or.. well.. any way to adjust the play. I am kinda thinking that.. It was pressed together!

And yes I have a hydraulic press.. but I am cringing at the concept of removing the entire headstock, wiring, motor, gears on and on and on to remove the spindle.

On the belt side, I see that there is a slight recess where the... almost like a shoulder area is. I am not sure if that is a shoulder that is a spacer.. or if the wider part is the diameter of the bearing that is pressed on.

Any insight and or ideas are very welcome.


 

[John Rudd]

From what I see there's only one way that spindle can come out ...thats from the drive end...

You'll need to rig up some form of press to drive the spindle from the  de or else pull it from the chuck end....
The inner races shouldnt be such a tight fit on the spindle, else you cant set the pre load properly....

Good luck....

[velocette]

Hi
Referring to " I hear a tiny metallic clicking noise..... from the bearings". Perhaps the clicking is a bit of debris in the bearing.
Be careful Angular contact bearings may "pop" apart when removing them and damage the balls and bearing surfaces if you are replacing them no problem.
You can pull the spindle with the face plate used as a puller with jacking screws through it and pushing against the headstock. See Photo attached.
The preload is set with the locknut No 24 on the parts list. As John says the outer bearing should slide on the spindle and not be a tight fit.
Can I add that on the photo the bit of swarf between the spacer-collar needs attention as this can cause problems with the bearing seal and lead to it's demise.

Eric

 

[RodW]

This thread of my spindle bearing replacement may help but a Totally different lathe.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=94689
Now you have undone the nut, the preload is gone, next time check the preload as shown in the Grizzly manual referred  to in my link first. It may have still been OK. To me,  there is still something to remove on the drive side as the pics don't agree with the diagram and it will come out from the chuck end. It sems there is a washer in front of the bearing still my idea of the long tube to press the bearing back on and then the threaded rod to pull it together will probably do the trick.

I think I tapped the spindle out from the drive side  with a drift or block of wood.

[hermetic]

Can you not put a spacer over the end of the spindle, bearing against the gearbox housing, then screw on a faceplate or chuck and use the spindle thread to extract the spindle. Secondly, what about a long rod through the spindle. threaded and tightened into the spindle so it cannot move with a slip hammer attached to the end?

[SPiN Racing]

Excellent insights all.

I appreciate the time. Its Sunday..  going to go out and carefully begin the process.. I believe I will use the faceplate method with threaded rods. Add one to each side and carefully snug them up.

I will also go over the shaft carefully to make sure the shaft is completely swarf free.

Also the clicking.. it sounds like a dry bearing making a ting noise against another one as it falls over the top. Almost like skateboard bearings that are dry.. not dirty..

Going to approach carefully.. I am not in the mindset of having to replace the shaft, or any big parts. Bearings are no sweat. I think 20 each. Used in a Japanese electric forklift.. and I think the front axle bearing for a car too.

Appreciate the link RodW, that too helps.

I will take some pics today if I make some progress. There is a slew of weather heading our way today, and since I am in Florida.. even though I am in my garage and its quite large and comfy.. If the weather gets too wild, I prefer to be in the brick house, instead of the wood garage.

[SPiN Racing]

OK Many many thanks.

I thoroughly enjoyed the cosmoline coated back plate I never unwrapped. Reminded me of my Finn Mosin.

Then I spent too much time looking through the threaded rod I have.. stainless and just steel. The stainless was too thick.. the steel was some oddball fine thread I bought for a past project.. so couldn't find a nut.

I then resorted to the 5 gallon bucket of bolts and nuts off some of the various Mazda RX-7s I have scrapped over the years. 5 minutes. 

I ended with a very stout bolt with a 17mm head, and 17mm nut.

Couple of wrenches in the right places and slowly carefully add load, and then felt a gentle bump of the bearing on the pully side move.



A couple minutes of careful wrenching and it was about 3/4 out. A light bump on the end of the shaft with a board and small hammer.. a few gentle taps and she slipped right out.







Bearings are clean ish. Looks like the cosmoline they were originally coated in washed right out with the oil I put in.



I think looking at the crap on the shaft.. that wayy back when John (Bogs) did a complete rebuild of someones lathe, and was going on about taking these Chinese lathes apart and going through them to true them, and clean out all the grit... I think its really something to think about. Its sad that a BRAND NEW nearly 2K dollar lathe needs to be disassembled and gone through.. but It appears that this one also fits that category. SO many places where there is a lot of grit and machining crap.
But that is a different task I think.

If/when I decide to do a VFD, and or a big cnc upgrade or something..  I will re-evaluate the complete teardown options.

SO..

I work in the AM, so I am done for the night. Going to go on a cleaning binge tomorrow, and then get out the redline wheel bearing grease, and re-pack those bearings. (Provided there are no issues after cleaning thoroughly)

I will update pics when I have more done!

[RodW]

Glad you made a start on it. Always good to stop and think after each step. I think If I got this far, I'd replace the bearings while you were at it as you can probably pick up the bearing numbers at this point. Just talk to your bearing shop about accuracy grades before you pull the trigger though.

[SPiN Racing]

Hi all more info...

I am still trying to decide on the bearings.. I have not had a chance to clean em yet. I have em wrapped in oiled rags, so no surface rust materializes.

Had a insane week at work, started with a production server down, and had to create a new VM template to be able to deploy that type of server next time one goes down. Of course it was the one OS I didn't have a template created for.

SO I got out into the HOT Garage today. It has been raining for 3 days on and off so it wasn't too bad, just HUMID.

Removal of the oil ports, and insertion of the Grease fittings.

One Mazda interior trim screw.. into the brass fitting with a Phillips. a Quick pry, and it popped out.

Drill for the Tap (cloth to catch the cast iron) Then tap to 1/8 NPT

Spend some time cleaning out the holes, and making sure the is no debris in them, and screw in the fittings.

And there you go.. One more spot done.

[SPiN Racing]

YAY RAIN.... not.

Ok so was going to re-assemble the diesel fuel separator that I went through for my truck. And put it together, then weld on... tabs? I suppose that's the term, for my intercooler plumbing that keeps popping at high load/boost. BUT.... Rain. (In central Florida and there has been a cold front hovering for a week.)

SO It was time to get the lathe re-assembled!!

Spent some quality time treating my hands to a mineral spirits bath, while cleaning all the black nasty cosmoline looking grease from the bearings on the spindle.
After getting it all nice and shiny, and clean. I spent some time inspecting the bearings... Zero issues. They were really nice. Shaft came out great, no nicks, scratches, or issues.

Add a large glob of sticky-tacky racing wheel bearing grease.. and a good half hour re-packing the bearings.

Shaft back into the lathe, and then began the process of carefully working assembling things so I could use the nut on the end to gently snug the bearing onto the shaft. Which was a simple task. THAT TOOK FOREVERRRRRRRR  And I was holding the spindle in one hand, and then turning the nut with the other. Yes PITA with arthritis. Thank you youth of martial arts, and stupid choises sports, and other dumb activities wise. My knuckles appreciate it. 

EVENTUALLY.. got her all up in there. Slowly snugged her up so the bearings had a couple thou play. Then turned things a good bit, spinning seating them, and getting things distributed.
Then snug a bit more till I had about 1/2 thou play. (I have to check which dial indicator I was using actually.) Anyhow.. REALLY smooth. I used my calibrated hands to adjust things so it had the same resistance as a set of wheel bearings. Since they ARE wheel bearings, the logic would play out I believe.
Got the belt back on, and re-spun things by hand verifying things. All nice.

Hooked up a grease gun and slowly pumped in some grease. The ONLY issue I have with this setup.

The bearing race is in there. And the opening from the grease fitting is off to the side of it. SO when you add grease it will not go INTO the bearing.. but next to it. If you look at the chuck side picture posted above, there is a slot between the ?dust cover? and the bearing. And that is where the grease all gets shot. Not really my thoughts of a great setup. Leaves room for swarf to get in.

Anyhow.. here is a finished pic!!
Thanks all for the thoughts, help and advice.