How do I start welding?

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SwarfnStuff:
For what it's worth Here is my two cents worth (I'm Cheaper than Pete). :lol: I found my stick welding improved out of sight after I shouted myself one of those welding shields that are almost clear till you strike the arc then go instantly dark. This allows me to see where I am aiming the rod to start. Still not pretty but much less of a mess than previously.

Regards,
John B

PekkaNF:

--- Quote from: raynerd on November 13, 2013, 06:46:26 PM ---Thank you - I'm just on eBay and near to me North Manchester, there are loads of arc welder being sold. Most look like cheaper models but do I buy anything in particular - current rating, price. Etc?

--- End quote ---

Depend on your budget and how much space you have.

* Forget the cheapest new AC (transfomermer only) units. You are limited to one type of stick (rutile) . Also current range sucks even more than duty cycle. Using them is a pain if you are starting welding. Old hand can use them ok.

* If you have space and good 3-phase feed, industrial old heavy DC unit is a way to go. Some have power unit and some additional "box" for remote control, parameters or wire feed / TIG unit etc. They are big, heavy, last forever and if they break, many people can fix them. You wait a little while and you are bound to find one.

* If you don't have 3-phase or want to cram it into a small space, new inverter is pretty much way to go. Here you pay on duty cycle and quality cables. If you stay away from the cheapest sub 100A units you are fine. They are build for price, therefore no filling them with sand/dust/bumpping/dropping. Electronics is not very friendly for maintenance.

Pekka

* Update#1
Addition of few examples I know (there are bunch of fairly simililar ESAB/bunch of italians)
Telwin TECNICA 151/S - 230 V. About the size and weight of serial box, about 200-300€ range. Does what it says. Low duty cycle, but on that price and when doing hobby work it's a compromise you can live with. Two of my friends have older version of this same machine and they love it. They stuff all welding equipment (excluding sticks) on one plastic storage box leave it on garage and then bring the box next to work they need it. Short cables, but standard bayonet. Place on elevated surface near you (short cables and this unit does not like rain/water/dust. You may consider buying just the unit (sometimes cheaper) and longer/better cables. If nothing else lget Least longer grounding gable it probably saves you from dropping/dragging this baby.

Like that:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WELDER-TECNICA-151-S-230V-ACX-PLASTIC-C-CASE-code-816202-TELWIN-/260941784502?pt=Utensili_elettrici&hash=item3cc157a5b6

There are some versions of this that have "Lift TIG" capability and even if you don't need it now, you may want to buy a model if it is only 50€/£ more expensive. They show up sometimes on welding shops a little used. Someone tried TIG, got hooked and wanted to shell dough for a proper HF-unit. But IMHO it is not "the thing" on the list. Unless you really want to try some TIG later on. It's a compromise, but if it does not cost much extra it's worth of considering.

Telwin manuals are pretty crappy. Also their affinity to small controls and short thin cables tells where they save money.

Like this:
http://www.telwin.com/webtelwin/site.nsf/webapridocumento?openform&E|3||816014|81
Pretty decent for the price. These specs are real, not pony HP. One thing we like these is that they are generator friendly = you can use some extension cables, some cheaper units don't respond well on 10 -20 m mains extension cables.

There are some cheaper ones in "supermarkets", but they are always limited on one feature or another. Often with integral 1 metre long useless cables or something. 10% duty cycle on advertized current (eg. 90A or something lowish like that). Some people have bought them, but normally they work just enough that you can't really return them into shop, but they are no joy to use. Pretty much in par with cheapest AC/transformer units, except you can use DC-sticks (Yeaaaa...) and startting is easier.

Then there is a step up when you dig deeper.....here around 500-600€. That money buys a very decent machine that you really can't blame, maintenance works if you need one and you see them used by professionals on maintenance work. Have you anybody ever heard bitching up on Fronius (unless dropped on toes)?

So, eBay may give best last price, but most fitting machine is usually found visitting/calling few welding supply shops. Least here. Try to bundle up longer cables (even much used grounding cable/clamp is great), grounding clamp, good electrode holder, gauntlets or such). My friend got really crappy looking grounding cable/clamp, but it was good 5m long and thick industrial just to seal the deal.

* Update#2
Forgot to say that long rambling above is not Telwin endorsement, but personal view of me and some experience I and some friends have.

I was going to add some more opinions on different brands, but noticed that GYS has changed models too much for any usefull input and ESAB/Kemppi is probably too local here to have any real value to Chris.

o-o

raynerd:
Thank you very much for the time and effort put into writing your posts. Really interesting and helpful info. After pay day next week I will be ready to buy and let you know what I go for!

Pete49:
I'll just add a farthings worth to what John B said cheaper still) definitely buy a auto darkening helmet as when learning the hardest bit is trying to strike an arc when you can only go by feel. Regarding AC only just go cheap to start and then when you're ready buy whatever you feel you want. If only doing small jobs around home the costs of Migs and Tigs tend to kill off any savings, especially while learning. If you have a boilermaker or good welder in your circle of friends ask them to teach you and ask for their advice. I was lucky as my late brother was a boilermaker and gave me the lessons and advice based on experience not a salesmen's versions on which way to start into this part of the hobby. Cheap solid benches are a good start :)
Anyhoo you have heaps of info in these threads so enjoy your next step.
Pete

S. Heslop:
Stick welding isn't as hard to pick up as people like to pretend. Of course it's a different story if you're welding oil pipelines or pressure vesels, but for sticking things together in the garage you'd be amazed by how much even the ugliest of welds can hold.

I've said it already but i'll say it again. The only welder I own and have ever really used (I had a go at mig once) is the cheapest nastiest buzz box you can buy, which I got from Aldi. They're selling them right now in fact (check the amperage though, it says it's supplied with a standard plug so maybe they reduced the high end since when they'd sell it plugless). Every year up here they never sell that fast so they tend to get reduced. Don't buy into that adage that you need to buy high end stuff right off the bat since the features of high end tools often aren't required by hobbyists, and don't believe people when they say it's difficult to learn on on a cheap welder (it's easy to learn on any welder).

I'd say its worth buying some decent quality rods though. I bought a box of 3.2mm Murex 6013 rods a while ago and i've still got loads left. I store the rods in an old mini fridge I was given that doesn't work, I figure the seal should keep moisture out. I've also thrown in a bunch of sillica gel packets from shoes and stuff.

It's also worth maybe keeping an eye on ebay for an oxford oil filled welder. As of posting this some micky mouses are trying to get away with charging £400 for the things, but the price they usually sell for is around £30-50. They'll probably come down again when the eejits realise they can't sell them at such optimisitc prices. They're regarded as very robust and stable welders, and i'd like to own one but they never sell them up north.

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