How do I start welding?

[raynerd]

Hi guys, I'm not stupid enough to appreciate this is mammoth question and a skill in its own right of which I know there are even many dedicated forums- but with so much info out there it is easy to get lost in the mass of information!!!

I have never welded a thing and neither have I ever watched anyone close up welding. However, over the years it is always one of those things I've promised myself I'd try.

Can someone please point me in the direction as to suitable reasonibily priced setup to get me going. I presume mig is the way forward with gas rods?? What sort of unit for small parts to get me going with simple thin plate welding?

Is an old reliable machine the way to go or a cheap modern setup?

Any help appreciated
Chri

[Mike K]

MIG doesn't use rods.  It uses a spool of wire fed through a "gun".

Here are your options:

* stick welding
- inexpensive machine
- does not use shielding gas
- uses flux coated sticks
- produces slag that you have to break off the surface of the finished weld
- does produce spatter
- can weld thick material
- cannot weld thin material
- cannot weld aluminum (I think)

* flux core wire welding
- inexpensive machine
- does not use shielding gas
- uses a spool of flux cored wire
- produces slag that you have to break off the surface of the finished weld
- does produce spatter
- generally cannot weld as thick material as stick welding
- might not weld thin material, depends on the machine
- cannot weld aluminum (I think)

* MIG welding
- more expensive machine
- uses shielding gas (more $)
- uses a spool of wire
- produces cleaner welds than stick or flux core
- generally cannot weld as thick material as stick welding
- generally can weld thin material
- you can also use flux cored wire in the machine without the need for shielding gas
- can weld aluminum with a special spool gun

* TIG welding
- more expensive machine
- uses shielding gas (more $)
- uses filler material sticks
- produces superior welds, nice and clean
- some machines can be operated as a stick welder
- can weld aluminum

* torch welding
- simple setup
- uses oxygen and some other gas such as acetylene
- can weld lots of stuff

So the question is: What do you want to weld?  That determines the machine to get.  Are you only ever going to weld thin plate?

[AdeV]

1) Buy a small, cheap, mig welder. Forget gas wire/rods, just get ordinary wire & proper gas (there's a company in St Helens who do rental-free bottles - 1st one is expensive, refills are reasonable, and unlike BoC you don't pay through the nose every month). Don't bother with those silly little bottles from Machine Mart/B&Q - they only last 10 mins.

2) Check out www.mig-welding.co.uk - a goldmine of info.

3) Grab some bits of steel & start sticking 'em together. Your first dozen yards or so of weld will be atrocious, as you learn your machine, then it just gets easier & easier. The hard bit is welding thin steel with an over-powered machine (DAMHIKT). Well, that's the hard bit for me at the moment at any rate.

Don't forget to get some basic safety gear - a welding mask is 100% essential, get a self-darkening one, then you've got 1/2 chance of seeing where the torch is before you strike the arc. Welding gloves will stop painful burns, and to prevent a nasty "sun"burn, make sure all exposed skin is covered if you're going to weld for more than a few seconds or so.

Also, if you're going to be welding in that underground vault that is your workshop, get some decent ventilation in place (mig welding is smoky and gassy), and have a fire extinguisher on hand. Welding rust = spits & sparks = high chance of burning your house down.

Steel will warp and twist in ways you could never expect when welding. I welded two 10mm thick bits together at what started out as 90 degrees, the weld was only short but it warped the whole piece quite magnificently, and took several minutes of twatting with a very big hammer to get it even remotely straight again....


Oh, a note on welding gas: The thicker the steel you wish to weld, the more oxygen needs to be in the shield gas.  BoC do Argoshield Light, Medium & Heavy (IIRC) - most of what we as hobbyists do would only need Argoshield Light.

If you do go TIG welding, get an AC/DC machine (John Doubleboost seems to have found a decent machine - I got a hulking big 3-phase animal that works just fine for me), so you can do steel & aluminium. TIG and MIG techniques are quite different, even though the end result should be more or less the same.

[Dawai]

I have all the above, Only thing I saw you miss was oxy-acetylene welding. A "aircraft torch" or a "henrob dillion 2000" torch (looks like a pistol) Provides a broad range of welding types all in one tool, plus cutting with a torch.

It is all really the same process, you melt the base metal, make a puddle, add a filler metal, or just meld them all together. ONE tiny puddle at a time, that is what makes the ripples in a "caterpillar back looking weld" each puddle laid next to the previous one.

2006?? I bought a $2500 Miller Synchrowave 200 tig machine, it also stick welds. I being a "electrician and not a welder" didn't understand that since the new "lunchbox" sized tig welders had came out, the one I bought weighing 350lbs was obsolete before I ever loaded it onto the truck at the supplier. I bet they laughed at me for a week.

I bought the henrob gas torch after I plunked down the cash for the tig.. recently putting the cab corners on my 57 gmc.. I migged them on.. while beating the "shrinkage" bead back flat to use little bondo, I broke the brittle mig weld..  I went back, and I was having trouble seeing that day.. and gas welded it with the henrob.. it was flexible, planished flat and I used about two tablespoons of bondo on both sides.. if I had been better at hammer finishing I would not have used any.

http://www.cutlikeplasma.com/  the site.. I bought mine from, if Henrob Jim is still there, he is amazing to watch weld.. If I had 1/10th of his skill I'd be happy.
http://www.cutlikeplasma.com/video_library.htm  THE videos from welding cast iron to ??? cutting like a plasma.. It is actually a oxygen lance to cut with, it has a tiny flame like a bic lighter and a seperated oxy tube to "blow the crack out".
Using mine? I returned the large tanks and use a set of the tiny "tote around" MC sized tanks, they last about six to eight hours.

What is cool? the henrob takes about 4psi on the gases, some regulators will not regulate that low thou, I tried two sets before I found some that would not pulsate. It uses very little gas, a tiny flame that can weld sheet steel or thick steel with a tip change.

THE henrob is pricy.. near $400?? a smith or little aircraft torch is cheaper, but the flame control is close, but not the same. THE henrob is like a pistol, gets your hand close and that gets the shakes out of the tip somewhat.. only advantage I can see..

WITH A gas torch or tig, you can use a strip of the parent metal as a filler..

[Dawai]

What I left out? you want  your welding "rod" with electric arc welding about the same diameter as the thickness of your metal.
I keep a container of 3/32nds (not sure about MM) 7018's (low hydrogen and very hard to light) 6011, or 6013's are much easier to strike a arc with..

using a arc welder you can "bump strike" or "scratch strike" the arc to initiate it, once it lights, the proper distance to hold the rod from the work is 1/3rd the diameter of the rod, with a hot welder you can "melt the base metal and push the rod through".. if it sticks, it is too cold and turn the welder up a bit. As it consumes the rod, making lil half circles across your welding crack or seam continue to feed inward till the rod is gone.
THEN, drop it into a can, not on the floor where it will ruin your boots.

Mostly, even on a bad eye day I can stick weld by sound, sometimes making a perfect beautiful weld right next to the seam I wished to weld up.
It sounds like bacon frying when right. (I love bacon)

Learning how to puddle the metal helps with all different types of welding machines thou.. I take the gas & tig style weld puddling back to the arc welding I started learning about 40 years ago.

I've watched apprentice steam fitters weld.. I make no claims I can do as well.

[vtsteam]

I second the oxy acet welding for thin plate -- which was what you asked, if cash is tight.

You can cut with it as well, which is an important point.

You can also braze with it. for many things brazing is an underrated metal joining operation, in my opinion, especially since you mentioned thin stock, as well.

If you are satisfied with brazing, and don't need welding, an even cheaper alternative is oxy-propane -- same torch different tips and hose. It will cut fine, braze beautifully, and the gas is available everywhere. I have switched over (well still have an acety bottle that is full but unused since I went to propane). I do however have a stick welder for welding thicker material.

If you have money TIG would be the top level for thin materials, including stainless.

If I had to have only one thing, it would be the oxy propane rig. I could stick more things together ( like cast iron and stainless for instance) and cut most things with that, and do it cheaply.

[Fergus OMore]

I was once a Certified Welder OK, laugh

So with the appropriate flux I could stick the tail back on the donkey

Basically, what others have said is quite valid but it all depends on what you want to join and what space and what coins you possess. Probably the most versatile tool is still the old fashioned oxy/acetylene set but you can and will run into trouble with house insurance. That is where we 'manure' students started. You can join dissimilar materials fairly easily. You can also join very very thin sheet steels and it was the tool of choice for car body work. It isn't now because of modern steels which will crack- sometime in use

So you can go onto Mig/Mag welding but if want to go onto non ferrous joining, you will have to buy costly wire and costly gas. You can't go into a shop and buy a cheap gasless machine-- and get away with things.
Sorry, you can't.

Probably the most sophisticated tool is the TIG welder and a practised welder can happily  run a weld around two empty coke cans. They are good- and fairly bulky and quite expensive.

So you come to the cheap and perhaps nasty  end of the market and get an arc set. £30 or £40 from your local Aldi and a few mild steel rods for a coin or two. You get a mask which will save you needing a visit to the ENT ward- you hope.

With a bit of brain work you can make a nice(r) carbon arc welder with a couple of carbon rods held in a crude holder-- and braze. Without much in the way of coins I happily stuck a new rear skirt onto the back end of an original Mini Cooper- with a bit of fluxed brazing rod. Again, arc welders are quite capable of doing runs in quite thin car plate. I would add- but you need lots of practice before you stop blowing holes in things.
A help is a thing(Calm down, folks) which is vibrates I think that it is essentially a solenoid and avoids sticking a rod( ooops) and things go red hot( more ooops)

So that's a start. So I would visit your local library and get out the several videos from the Welding Institute.
They may have a different format now but they are excellent and go through the rudiments with common sense approach.

Finally, I hope that this helps

Norman

[awemawson]

Chris,

Join the Mig Welding Forum

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php

It in fact covers all methods of welding. Browse there for a few weeks and you will soon hopefully pick up the flavour of the various processes. There are also several good training resources on the site and they are a helpful bunch.

Andrew

[awemawson]

.... also I meant to say, I don't think any of the fuel gas processes are suitable for your troglodyte cellar workshop either on safety grounds for yourself when welding, or for your family storing inflammable gases under the house !

Andrew

[RussellT]

Just to add to Andrew's comment it's not only fuel gases you need to worry about.  Lots of home MIG users use CO2 as a shielding gas and CO2 is also dangerous in cellars.

I have a MIG you could try but I'm the other side of Manchester to you.

Russell

[Arbalist]

For home use MIG or TIG are probably the most practical. MIG units are cheap and quite easy to use. TIG units are more expensive and take a little longer to master but are more flexible. My advice is to buy nothing until you've gone on a short welding course to give it a try. My own personal choice would be TIG if I could justify the expense!

[S. Heslop]

Every year towards christmas time Aldi sells a cheap 'buzz box' style welder. Every year they tend not to sell many and so they eventually get reduced. I got one at £25 and i'm still using it.

I'm not sure how 'thin' thin is though. All I have for it are (I think) 3mm rods, but i've been able to weld 2mm sheet with those. I figure with thinner rods you might be able to get down to 1mm, or less if you employ something similar to this.

Of course it's not always going to be ideal but I feel it proves that you don't need a geet expensive setup to stick metal together, despite what people on some forums might claim.

You could also check ebay for an Oxford oil filled welder. Should sell for around £30 unless people are getting greedy. Rob Wilson had nothing but good things to say about them, but I couldn't find any for sale up north after months of watching. They're built like tanks and produce a stable arc. Even if you later own a gas, mig, or tig setup you'll probably still always find use for stick welding just because the running costs are cheap (no gas rental or consumables) and the rods can reach into tight spaces.

[drmico60]

A help is a thing(Calm down, folks) which is vibrates I think that it is essentially a solenoid and avoids sticking a rod( ooops) and things go red hot( more ooops)

Hi Norman,

Can you elaborate on the "thing that vibrates". What is it? Is it available commercially?

Mike


fixed quote. Don

[BenH]

It all depends on what you want to do with it really, I've had a MIG before and a Oxford arc set. But since getting a DC only TIG but sold the oxford as run rods on DC is so much easier than the AC of a oxford.

If it's thin stuff then TIG or oxy setup really is the best, but bear in mind all TIG set's will run arc rods so you can weld thicker stuff as well. You can braze with the TIG as well, but I have a oxy propane set up for that and got rid of the acetylene instead due to the cost.

In my experience cheap MIG welders are just not worth the hassle, I had a brand new SIP and after a few months it went in the bin as it was rubbish.  All of my automotive welding is now done with the TIG, even though it's harder to master it's so much more fun.

As much as a AC/DC TIG would be nice you can do so much with a DC only, that unless you need to weld Ali it's maybe not worth the extra cost. A used DC TIG would be my choice then after you have the hang of it you can always sell it on and upgrade to a AC/DC one. The main thing with a tig is to get one at least 160A with HF start and gas valve ect built in, the cheaper bottom end inverter types tend to be scratch start and a valve on the torch. I've had one before and does make it much harder to use!

Just be careful of really cheap new inverters (for tig) and buzz box type things as they can make you hate welding being so much harder to use, better off giving yourself every chance of success with something reasonable. 

[philf]

A help is a thing(Calm down, folks) which is vibrates I think that it is essentially a solenoid and avoids sticking a rod( ooops) and things go red hot( more ooops)

Hi Norman,

Can you elaborate on the "thing that vibrates". What is it? Is it available commercially?

Mike


fixed quote. Don

Fergus may have been referring to an XP Welder which used to be advertised in newspapers 30 or 40 years ago. They advertised it as being suitable for use from a car battery!

I built my trailer with one but used a big transformer I got out of a piece of scrap equipment.

I don't know where mine went (someone probably borrowed it 30 or so years ago!). Basically there was a beefy solenoid with only a few windings of heavy gauge and the welding current passed through these windings.

When the electrode touched the workpiece it completed a circuit and the solenoid pulled the electrode away from the workpiece causing an arc to form. As the current reduced the electrode would move nearer the workpiece and the whole process would repeat. I can't remember if you could adjust the stroke or spring pressure.

I've just found one on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Body-Stich-Welder-Arc-welders-made-uk-/121200786932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c38213df4#ht_1041wt_932

This is now branded KelArc. The same seller does the brazing attachments for arc welders. I have a home made one which I last used 30 odd years ago to patch up the floor in my Mk3 Cortina before selling it. (I think for £30!)

If this isn't what Fergus meant I don't know what he was referring to.

Cheers.

Phil.

[vtsteam]

Well if a person is worried about gas welding in a house, better save up for a plasma cutter, as well.  Because you will want to avoid gas for cutting, too.

And if explosions and fires are a focus, please be sure not to allow anything containing gasoline in even an attached garage if a person reading this has one. A lawnmower for instance -- a cup of gasoline vaporized is reputed to have the explosive power of 8 sticks of dynamite, at least that's the usual disclaimer in boating circles. At least propane is lighter than air and doesn accumulate vapors in low areas like liquid fuels do.

Also spray paint cans, cans of lacquer thinner, denatured alcohol, starting fluid, etc. No propane or mapp gas torch, and look out for homemade steam engine burners, using flammable fluids, etc. Don't allow those in the enclosed structure of a house if we want to be consistent.

Then there are the detrimental gasses produced by welding, fluxes, molten metal and alloy vapors, persisting inside a modern low loss insulated house. Proper non-spark ventilation is a MUST in any case. Even wood working sawdust running through a static inducing collection system can be a concern.

Each person must make realistic and practical choices for their own situation re. safety, and many things we do are inconsistent when looked at logically. But there are often simple solutions to special needs. For instance, with oxy propane -- can the bottles be sited outdoors, or in a shed, or if small, in a small purpose built ventilated enclosure outdoors? As propane is sited externally in a vented enclosure,on a boat, or motor home (caravan). Propane for cooking is commonly sited external to a house.

I always weld and cut outdoors. Always, even though I have a shop separate from my house. Even in mid winter in Vermont. Cutting and welding or brazing are infrequent operations for hobbyists -- we aren't going into welding as a business. It's not a big inconvenience to step outside for a few minutes work., and I don't want to breathe or spread fumes in my shop, or drip molten metal on the floor.

Anyway. I believe with a common sense approach many things are do-able depending on your sense of risk and sensible means of risk reduction.

[Fergus OMore]

Phil is quite right. The eBay item is almost identical to mine( wherever it went)

Basically, it was a pistol grip with a solenoid similar to that on a door bell chime and with a holder and griub screw for - I think- a 16 or 22 gauge coated rod.

The principle is fairly obvious but it avoids the beginner's problem of learning to strike an arc like a match.

Having struck the arc with the gubbins described, you then circuited it direct through the battery/welding set and onto the job in hand.

Obviously the amount of fumes is minimal. We, the City and Guilds Class of Dodos used fume cupboards to extract fumes from welding( and Woodbines)
'Woodbines' are - for our cousins-------fags.
Splutter, splutter

Norm

[mattinker]

'Woodbines' are - for our cousins-------fags.
Splutter, splutter

Norm

Norm, fags in the US aren't cigarettes, sort of equivalent to queers!

Regards, Matthew

[Arbalist]

My brother gave me one his woodbines to try about 40 years ago, made me so dizzy I had to have a lie down Norman!

[NeoTech]

I personally started welding few years back still learning.. I started with a cheap MAG welder (not a MIG, cause they can weld aluminium) and 5kg rental free bottle.. I watched welderseries amongst other on youtube and started to figure stuff out.. Then i got myself a stick welder with scrape start tig, and welded with 1kg bottles smallar stuff. In the end i got myself a AC/DC 200A tig welder.. I weld everything with that.. BUT.. if i hadnt start with the mag, wire welder.. i would prob. never learned what to look for when doing tig welding.

[raynerd]

Thank you very much for all your replies.

It is interesting to yet again read all the different advice and it is still tricky to know what route to go down! I'm just out visiting family so will need to revisit this thread and digest it properly tomorrow.

Just to clarify a few issues:

 I wouldn't dream of welding in my cellar or storing gas in there. I intend this kit to be kept in my grandparents outdoor shed to use as and when needed.

I think maybe my mentioning of "thin plate" was misleading in my original message I'm talking 3-10mm plate and bar. Basically, making racking frames, welding box section...that sort of thing.

The truth is, I want to make a weathervane and want to weld it!! I could use copper and solder or even aluminium and rivet it.... But I've always wanted to learn to weld so may as well give it a go now.

I'll keep reading and do more searching. Does anyone know what sort of price I'd be looking at to get the gases and first bottles (I.e first setup) for mig ?

[BenH]

I use Adams Gas rent free trade sized ones, but depends on where you are as to what supplier you can get. http://www.adamsgas.co.uk/index.php/hobby-gas-welding.

[DavidA]

AdeV,

... the more oxygen needs to be in the shield gas.,,

I never knew that.  I always assumed that the idea of shield gas was to keep out oxygen.

And I've been welding for fifty or more years.  Just shows how one can bumble along.

Dave

[mattinker]

AdeV,

... the more oxygen needs to be in the shield gas.,,

I never knew that.  I always assumed that the idea of shield gas was to keep out oxygen.

And I've been welding for fifty or more years.  Just shows how one can bumble along.

Dave

Well spotted, somebody got it the wrong way round! Free oxygen (not attached like the O in CO2) it to be kept out by the shield.

Regards, Matthew

[Fergus OMore]

What no one has mentioned is that the flux in both oxy and mig/mag is carbon dioxide.

The argon is basically for smoothing the weld- or the world could weld on 'pub gas' bottles. Dead cheap but if you are only welding garden gates and the like, why not?

Let me turn to thin body shell metal. Of course the heat from a mig/mag machine can blow holes in it- in ten seconds flat on the torch. We got whole Nissan Primeras that had failed the Nissan inspection -to play. the caveat was that we had to return them so that the VAT could be reclaimed at the factory. Nevertheless, the tutors would get an air saw and hack a wavy line in a wing or wherever and we had not only to stick it back but prepare it for the paint shop. So this was high strength low alloy niobium steel- which you can gas weld but only if you want it to crack- sometime, whenever but it would! OK, I made up little clamps to pull up the waving metal and gapped it and then skip welded it using half inch runs missing a half inch weld another little run etc etc. Then I would fill in the gaps and let it cool and go in with a flexible body file.

That was the easy bit. Aligning a car and going through the zinc coating by stitching with a mig and getting the zinc to flow back evenly was fun. But I digress!

Cheers

Norman

[BenH]

AdeV,

... the more oxygen needs to be in the shield gas.,,

I never knew that.  I always assumed that the idea of shield gas was to keep out oxygen.

And I've been welding for fifty or more years.  Just shows how one can bumble along.

Dave

Well spotted, somebody got it the wrong way round! Free oxygen (not attached like the O in CO2) it to be kept out by the shield.

Regards, Matthew

No that's correct it's really only MIG (metal inert gas) welding with pure Argon (as used for Aluminium) CO2 or Argo shield is MAG (metal active gas) welding, with Co2 some of it breaks downs and the free oxygen burns the steel to create more heat, you get less of that with Argo shield light but then Argo shield heavy has added oxygen to burn off more steel and add more heat to the weld. It is the nitrogen your trying to keep out of the weld more than other things as it makes the weld brittle.

[PekkaNF]

....
I think maybe my mentioning of "thin plate" was misleading in my original message I'm talking 3-10mm plate and bar. Basically, making racking frames, welding box section...that sort of thing.
....

I lived my teen years on the farm and we used stick welder (MMA) to fix just about anything that had to fixed. Then I rented/boroved MIG to fix cars, my first car had a deer visit indoors.

Now I have invertter MMA and I say that for what kind of welding you are planning to do probably MMA would be most economical and educational choice. I had (and still have one) buzzbox cheap and nasty AC MMA. I don't recommend them unless you have a good teacher and are with really small budget. It's hard to use and very limitting. Bigger ex-industrial transformer welding machines can be had if you are willing to cart them out (least here some time ago) but tehy might need 3-phase supply, then again you 650A supply for hig % vs. 50A 50% of the nasty ones.

Compared to MIG/MAG
+ no gas
+ you can buy and use very different sticks, MIG/MAG you need to chance reel and possibly burner liner, nozzle etc.
+ Good versatility
+ inverter machines are pretty good, even the cheap ones
+ Some inverter MMA welders go down to 5A and offer remote control and TIG controls for added flexibility

- if you need production efficiency MIG is better, but megabucks with the cylcle you would need.
- thin plate is much harder and modern car body work not really feasible.

For car body work and other thin plates that needs some capacity MIG/MAG would be my first choice, but really hard to get any half decent machine under 600€ and almost decent is a bit over 1000€ + gas bottle + gas + old reels of wire you throw out + consumables.

Compare that for MMA, where you can buy half decent inverter 200€ range and very nice at 500€. And specially when there is very little extra expences and consumables to spend. Maybe longer and better cables that comes with cheapest ones (really cheap ones have something that looks like jumper cables and toys-r-us type stick holder and earth clamps).

I bought one ex-industrial inverter that i could use for TIG for about 200€ single phase from 10-160A (althought it needs over rated mains outlet at 20A) and only once thermal switch tripped when I was welding non-stop storage racks outside on good sun.

And one thing: Buy good helmet, gloves and cover yourself fully. Don't skimp on this one.

Happy huntting,
Pekka

[mattinker]

AdeV,

... the more oxygen needs to be in the shield gas.,,

I never knew that.  I always assumed that the idea of shield gas was to keep out oxygen.

And I've been welding for fifty or more years.  Just shows how one can bumble along.

Dave

Well spotted, somebody got it the wrong way round! Free oxygen (not attached like the O in CO2) it to be kept out by the shield.

Regards, Matthew

No that's correct it's really only MIG (metal inert gas) welding with pure Argon (as used for Aluminium) CO2 or Argo shield is MAG (metal active gas) welding, with Co2 some of it breaks downs and the free oxygen burns the steel to create more heat, you get less of that with Argo shield light but then Argo shield heavy has added oxygen to burn off more steel and add more heat to the weld. It is the nitrogen your trying to keep out of the weld more than other things as it makes the weld brittle.

This interesting and new to me, I was always told that one had to avoid oxidisation, I started stick welding forty years ago, I got into MIG and TIG within the last ten years. I am so used to stick that I use it whenever I can. I did a TIG Al welding course a few years ago, the oxidisation problem with Al was ever present. I haven't done any TIG on steel so I can see that I am probably off course about the shield gases!

Regards, Matthew

[Dawai]

Knowledge + experience is the most important thing I read and agree with. Each mode of welding requires lots of practice.

One thing I didn't learn for years, not being a real welder?? don't look at the arc-flame, listen and see to move it where you want it, look at the puddle it creates. I've seen some much better welders than I flick the gas torch away to see the puddle-heat, then right back. This also reduces the heat.

I learned to tig weld with a buzz box (scratch start), learned from a oil pipeline welder I was working around, I learned to go fast, add rod to cool the puddle. AND bad habits are hard to break, even with the "heat" pedal on my tig I wanna go fast and dump the rod in the puddle to cool it. I SUCK at thin metal with the tig. (with thin metal the heat comes  quicker, the puddle is on your shoes instead of the metal seam) I can however weld thick metal great, malleable, almost as good as the gas torch.  For thick metal I normally grab the stick welder thou.

Blacksmiths welded things like weather vanes in a forge, I think that is a lost art. I'd not have a clue how.

[Fergus OMore]

Ah, this weld pool thing!

The old blacksmiths used to 'get rid of the dottle' in the weld pool.  Dottle is the old word for the unsmoked residue at the bottom of a clay smokers' pipe.  What is contained is all sorts of impurities and the result is porosity. In other words, if you have a boiler, you have leaks. If you are doing a garden gate, so what, if you are facing a boiler inspector, you have trouble. So the torch is used to lift the impurities to the top of the pool.
I can or could do it, My father was one of the old fashioned blacksmiths and I spent many a childhood moment at the side of his anvil.

A little note about forge welding? Of course, you have to have  your steels white hot and able to be kneaded like bread although you needed a hammer to mix it. Somehow, I agree about the forgotten arts. My father rejoined broken leaf springs and then got the right temper back with a stick. A little further back in the history book, the old German sword makers in his village kneaded wrought iron into steel folding it and adding carbon on each fold.

Looking back- and a bit forward, we are still doing much the same with case hardening and also spinning items until they become white hot and a join occurs.

I still temper my carbon steel tools with a potato. Those who use their own urine- are a law unto themselves.
It's called 'nitriding' or night riding

[AdeV]

AdeV,

... the more oxygen needs to be in the shield gas.,,

I never knew that.  I always assumed that the idea of shield gas was to keep out oxygen.

And I've been welding for fifty or more years.  Just shows how one can bumble along.

Dave

Well spotted, somebody got it the wrong way round! Free oxygen (not attached like the O in CO2) it to be kept out by the shield.

Regards, Matthew

No that's correct it's really only MIG (metal inert gas) welding with pure Argon (as used for Aluminium) CO2 or Argo shield is MAG (metal active gas) welding, with Co2 some of it breaks downs and the free oxygen burns the steel to create more heat, you get less of that with Argo shield light but then Argo shield heavy has added oxygen to burn off more steel and add more heat to the weld. It is the nitrogen your trying to keep out of the weld more than other things as it makes the weld brittle.

This interesting and new to me, I was always told that one had to avoid oxidisation, I started stick welding forty years ago, I got into MIG and TIG within the last ten years. I am so used to stick that I use it whenever I can. I did a TIG Al welding course a few years ago, the oxidisation problem with Al was ever present. I haven't done any TIG on steel so I can see that I am probably off course about the shield gases!

Regards, Matthew

TIG welding uses pure argon generally as the shield gas. You don't want O2 when TIG welding because it will oxidise the electrode... To get extra deep penetration with TIG welding, you crank up the amps, use a fatter electrode, and just weld a bit slower. In fact, if anything, the problem with TIG welding is it tends to really load the part up with heat - much more so than MIG in my experience.

MIG, because it's laying down new metal, if you want to go deep (oo-er) you need to get more heat into the weld quickly. Best way to do that is to add some O2 to the argon, the O2 reacts with the steel to make extra heat which melts more metal & allows you to make strong welds even in thick metal with minimal warpage. I'd imagine that if you were mig welding aluminium you'd want pure argon rather than argoshield.

[mattinker]

TIG welding uses pure argon generally as the shield gas. You don't want O2 when TIG welding because it will oxidise the electrode... To get extra deep penetration with TIG welding, you crank up the amps, use a fatter electrode, and just weld a bit slower. In fact, if anything, the problem with TIG welding is it tends to really load the part up with heat - much more so than MIG in my experience.

MIG, because it's laying down new metal, if you want to go deep (oo-er) you need to get more heat into the weld quickly. Best way to do that is to add some O2 to the argon, the O2 reacts with the steel to make extra heat which melts more metal & allows you to make strong welds even in thick metal with minimal warpage. I'd imagine that if you were mig welding aluminium you'd want pure argon rather than argoshield.

Thanks,
I thought I had it all clear in my mind! New parametres to ingurgitate!

Regards, Matthew

[DavidA]

You may find this usefull.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/gas-composition.htm

I use Air Products Cougar 5 for my MIG and TIG

93% Argon,  5% Co2,  2% Oxygen.

Dave.

[DavidA]

...and going through the zinc coating by stitching with a mig and getting the zinc to flow back evenly was fun...

You could have made your life a lot easier if you had removed the zinc first.  Must be  a sure way of getting inclusions in your welds ?

Dave.

[Fergus OMore]

...and going through the zinc coating by stitching with a mig and getting the zinc to flow back evenly was fun...

You could have made your life a lot easier if you had removed the zinc first.  Must be  a sure way of getting inclusions in your welds ?

Dave.

Err Umm? One word- Thatcham covers it.

Norman

[tom osselton]

I'm using a cheaper 100 amp tig inverter that  have to say works quite well and is good for I think 3/16 with the tig it cost about $500 by the time it was set up not too far a price from a cheaper / used mig set up.

 

[TLGriff]

I used to teach welding in high school and always started the students out with oxy-acetylene welding. It's a great way to learn the theory of welding and it uses the same mechanical movements as other types of welding. The next logical step was stick and MIG, followed by TIG which requires the most skill and knowledge. I would recommend the same approach in the home shop. A gas welder will teach you the welding process and be much for useful than electric welders. When you aren't welding, you can use the gas welder to heat stubborn fasteners for disassembly, flame cut steel parts, heat treat parts and even repair the exhaust system on your car. It can also be use to braze, silver solder and in a pinch, even weld aluminum although that requires considerable skill. It can even be used to impress the neighbors by making a heck of a boom on New Years Eve, not that I've ever done such a thing. 

The first welder I bought for my shop was oxy-acetylene, followed by MIG which I use primarily for automotive sheet metal work, then TIG/stick. I use them all, but the gas welder gets the most use by far.

Tom

[awemawson]

Tom, I agree wholeheartedly that oxy-acetylene is an excellent basis for learning. Sadly though on this side of the pond it is very difficult to get acetylene other than in rented cylinders, and the rental is very silly money. So for Chris starting out it is probably not a contender. There are suppliers who will outright sell an oxygen cylinder, but acetylene in reasonable sizes so far has eluded me. My cylinder rental is currently counted in £100's per annum for a full size acetylene, oxygen and argon which frankly I can't justify.

Andrew

[DavidA]

Andrew,

Yes,  the rental is a real problem.

My half sized acetylene cylinder cost me £135 for a five year contract. Plus the cost of the gas. That was from Air Products. I suspect that the contract has run out, so when the cylinder is empty I will have to do it all again. I am very careful using the gas welding set because of this.  So I can easily make the one acetylene last a year.

I bought a full size oxygen bottle many years ago and manage to get it changed at a local scrap yard.  Mind you,  the last change was  some time ago,  so I don't know if they will still do this.

Dave.

[PekkaNF]

... My cylinder rental is currently counted in £100's per annum for a full size acetylene, oxygen and argon which frankly I can't justify.

Andrew

All three or just one bottle. Honestly if I could rent Argon for 100 (EUR/USD/GPB) a year here I would go for TIG in nanoseconds.

I'd say: Go for stick. If you can get an invertter that you can use later for TIG even better. Stick works well on stated 3 to 6 mm materials and is versatile and more economical when not used full time. If it were much thinner metals I would recommend MIG/MAG, but consumables are a killer and proper use really needs tutoring. I had a vocational school welding teacher to teach migging few evenings and without his input it would have been pretty steep learning curve - even with Morris Marina which was recovering from a minor deer damage.

Pekka

[BenH]

Albee do rent free Acetylene over here, nice thing is the bottles come with regulator and flashbacks built in. When the last on mine is used up my BOC will go back and I'll have one of those instead

http://albeegascylinders.com/

[awemawson]

Interesting Ben as they list a stockist quite near to me. They are very shy of putting prices on their web site - any idea what they are charging ? I am paying BOC £109  each per annum rental for 'portapak' sized cylinders  of oxygen and acetylene - I think that's a 'Y' size and an 'L' size with the chancellors iniquitous VAT on top of that. So that's £261 a year NOT including the gas !!!!

[TLGriff]

I'm surprised acetylene generators haven't made a comeback if the gas is so hard to get. Calcium carbide and water is all it takes.

Tom

[b4dyc]

Try this link to one of the Albee dealers http://www.pg-merlin.co.uk/page/oxygen_and_acetylene_cylinders_in_kent
I have one of their Argon bottles. Seems to last an age for me 

[vtsteam]

I own all my bottles -- half size originally cost about $100 ea. and am lucky enough to be able to fill them locally for something like $30 ea.

Of course I'm reducing that cost further now by using oxy propane for cutting and brazing.

That's about $20 for a 20 lb propane cylinder refill -- but that's about eight times the fuel gas that the acetylene represents -- so the equivalent of $240 worth of acetylene for cutting and brazing. I can also have it refilled just about anywhere, rather than a welding supply outfit. Running out on a weekend isn't a problem -- except that, I've never run out at all!

[awemawson]

OK so £363 plus VAT =  £435.60 to start up - yikes ! So after two years I'd be saving on BOC - long term it looks good - short term it hurts

[BenH]

When I checked last at my local a few months back it was £190 for the bottle and £50 ish for the refill on the Acetylene, but bear in mind with the regs and flashback in if you did not already have the gear it would work out cheaper as such. Acetylene bottles are always going to be more expensive than a regular high pressure gas bottle though.

For the oxygen I'm going with a Adams gas trade size oxy as that work out much cheaper and has a lot more in, but you need a reg already. For me as I use oxy propane for cutting and brazing, the smaller Albee Acetylene will last a long time for the odd welding job.

The Adams trade size is 20ltr @200bar, so a fair bit more volume but the bottle cost is about the same as a Albee to buy. I already use Adams for my Argon and my local supplier is very good, so I'd be happy sticking with them but depends where you are other options might be better.

[awemawson]

I've had Portapak cylinders from BOC for perhaps ten years (groans at the cost) so already have gauges, I've also got a 'proper' set of grown up full size oxy-acetylene cylinders and gauges that I got off a certain auction site many years ago and have had refilled from various sources over the years through various back doors  but I'd not really admit to that  

It's actually handy having two set ups - the big cylinders usually have the cutting gear on, whereas the Portopak has the welding torch.

[Arbalist]

When I was taught to gas weld over 30 years ago they always said not to worry about a flashback - it would take hours to become dangerous and the fire brigade would deal with it if necessary...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg327.pdf

[doubleboost]

Hi
Interesting discussion
I have  MIG TIG &  Stick( MMA) welding at home
The one thing I do not have and never will have is Acetylene
Far to dangerous to have near the home
I rent half size Argon and Argoshield bottles for £6 a month each
Considering the price of diesel and tabs (cigaretts)
Not to bad for a hobby
John

[awemawson]

When I was taught to gas weld over 30 years ago they always said not to worry about a flashback - it would take hours to become dangerous and the fire brigade would deal with it if necessary...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg327.pdf

I certainly hope that they are not still dishing out that bad advice 

Andrew

[Arbalist]

When I was taught to gas weld over 30 years ago they always said not to worry about a flashback - it would take hours to become dangerous and the fire brigade would deal with it if necessary...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg327.pdf

I certainly hope that they are not still dishing out that bad advice 

Andrew

From the linked PDF:

"The porous mass is designed to slow down or stifle any decomposition of the gas. From the start of decomposition to the cylinder exploding should take several hours. This will usually (but not always) provide time for emergency action."

[vtsteam]

Dontcha hate those (not always)'s? 

[awemawson]

Yes I read the link !

The point being it could be a ticking bomb that hours later someone totally unaware that there had been a flash back would pay the price for. It's irresponsible advice.

I'm still trying to square the circle of keeping my cylinders outside and yet usable and secure. Wire cages are all very well but easily broken into and make that odd two minute job a right royal pain

Andrew

[raynerd]

Just to add that I'm still looking into this but I admit, I never really considered such a high setup cost for tig and mig!

What is the real disadvantage with stick arc welding with plate greater than 3mm other than the slag mike mentioned in the first post? Is there really a big difference in the weld?

[awemawson]

Very little downside. Arc welding (aka stick or mma) is the cheapest to get into, and will give you the best penetration with least preparation. For years it's all we had apart from oxy-acetylene. I even arc welded car bodywork in my youth as I has no alternative. It wasn't pretty but was sound 

[PekkaNF]

IMHO stick has more plus sides than negatives. You need a good eye protectition and a good slag hammer (first welding job?) heavy one. Ditch the plastic one if you ever get one. Also a good visor to protect your eyes. Heavy gauntlets. And a apron would be good.

Keep stiks dry, they do not rot or anything, but should be dried before use. I keep welding rods inside and put them wood fired oven on low residua heat few hours if I have anything important to weld. You can weld on wind, but rain is a bit more trouble (but can be done).

You can forget the whole welding business for years, and if you have a TIG/MIG quite often you end up chuckking rods/wire and mig liner/nozlle etc. away and buy new ones....Stick = just go.

Heavy welds, you first do root and then you build up.

PekkaNF

[raynerd]

Thank you - I'm just on eBay and near to me North Manchester, there are loads of arc welder being sold. Most look like cheaper models but do I buy anything in particular - current rating, price. Etc?

[vtsteam]

I have the classic Lincoln "tombstone" buzz box stick welder. And have had for 17 years. That is probably the crudest type of stick welder you can get. Yet I built my sawmill with it, a 10,000 lb capacity 32' boat trailer, and a bazillion other things, as well as maintained my tractor, etc. etc.

If you get something like that, used, and outgrow it, you can probably sell it for what you bought it for and move up. Then again, you might be satisfied enough with it to continue to use it after 17 years.

[Pete49]

Just my 2 bobs worth. I have both stick and mig and the stick is used the most. Its easy to learn either by reading / watching utube then trying on scrap steel until you get a good idea of the way to work and its cheap to get into. I have had an old Arlec welder which is just a small unit and easy to carry (about 12"x 18"x 6" roughly) and runs on a 10A wiring system and has never let me down. As Pekka says keep the sticks dry and they will outlast you  If its been a while just place the sticks  in the oven on low heat for a while and they work like new. The duty cycle is fine for normal handyman type stuff.
Pete

[SwarfnStuff]

For what it's worth Here is my two cents worth (I'm Cheaper than Pete).  I found my stick welding improved out of sight after I shouted myself one of those welding shields that are almost clear till you strike the arc then go instantly dark. This allows me to  see where I am aiming the rod to start. Still not pretty but much less of a mess than previously.

Regards,
John B

[PekkaNF]

Thank you - I'm just on eBay and near to me North Manchester, there are loads of arc welder being sold. Most look like cheaper models but do I buy anything in particular - current rating, price. Etc?

Depend on your budget and how much space you have.

* Forget the cheapest new AC (transfomermer only) units. You are limited to one type of stick (rutile) . Also current range sucks even more than duty cycle. Using them is a pain if you are starting welding. Old hand can use them ok.

* If you have space and good 3-phase feed, industrial old heavy DC unit is a way to go. Some have power unit and some additional "box" for remote control, parameters or wire feed / TIG unit etc. They are big, heavy, last forever and if they break, many people can fix them. You wait a little while and you are bound to find one.

* If you don't have 3-phase or want to cram it into a small space, new inverter is pretty much way to go. Here you pay on duty cycle and quality cables. If you stay away from the cheapest sub 100A units you are fine. They are build for price, therefore no filling them with sand/dust/bumpping/dropping. Electronics is not very friendly for maintenance.

Pekka

* Update#1
Addition of few examples I know (there are bunch of fairly simililar ESAB/bunch of italians)
Telwin TECNICA 151/S - 230 V. About the size and weight of serial box, about 200-300€ range. Does what it says. Low duty cycle, but on that price and when doing hobby work it's a compromise you can live with.  Two of my friends have older version of this same machine and they love it. They stuff all welding equipment (excluding sticks) on one plastic storage box leave it on garage and then bring the box next to work they need it. Short cables, but standard bayonet. Place on elevated surface near you (short cables and this unit does not like rain/water/dust. You may consider buying just the unit (sometimes cheaper) and longer/better cables. If nothing else lget Least longer grounding gable it probably saves you from dropping/dragging  this baby.

Like that:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WELDER-TECNICA-151-S-230V-ACX-PLASTIC-C-CASE-code-816202-TELWIN-/260941784502?pt=Utensili_elettrici&hash=item3cc157a5b6

There are some versions of this that have "Lift TIG" capability and even if you don't need it now, you may want to buy a model if it is only 50€/£ more expensive. They show up sometimes on welding shops a little used. Someone tried TIG, got hooked and wanted to shell dough for a proper HF-unit. But IMHO it is not "the thing" on the list. Unless you really want to try some TIG later on. It's a compromise, but if it does not cost much extra it's worth of considering.

Telwin manuals are pretty crappy. Also their affinity to small controls and short thin cables tells where they save money.

Like this:
http://www.telwin.com/webtelwin/site.nsf/webapridocumento?openform&E|3||816014|81
Pretty decent for the price. These specs are real, not pony HP. One thing we like these is that they are generator friendly = you can use some extension cables, some cheaper units don't respond well on 10 -20 m mains extension cables.

There are some cheaper ones in "supermarkets", but they are always limited on one feature or another. Often with integral 1 metre long useless cables or something. 10% duty cycle on advertized current (eg. 90A or something lowish like that). Some people have bought them, but normally they work just enough that you can't really return them into shop, but they are no joy to use. Pretty much in par with cheapest AC/transformer units, except you can use DC-sticks (Yeaaaa...) and startting is easier.

Then there is a step up when you dig deeper.....here around 500-600€. That money buys a very decent machine that you really can't blame, maintenance works if you need one and you see them used by professionals on maintenance work. Have you anybody ever heard bitching up on Fronius (unless dropped on toes)?

So, eBay may give best last price, but most fitting machine is usually found visitting/calling few welding supply shops. Least here. Try to bundle up longer cables (even much used grounding cable/clamp is great), grounding clamp, good electrode holder, gauntlets or such). My friend got really crappy looking grounding cable/clamp, but it was good 5m long and thick industrial just to seal the deal.

* Update#2
Forgot to say that long rambling above is not Telwin endorsement, but personal view of me and some experience I and some friends have.

I was going to add some more opinions on different brands, but noticed that GYS has changed models too much for any usefull input and ESAB/Kemppi is probably too local here to have any real value to Chris.

o-o

[raynerd]

Thank you very much for the time and effort put into writing your posts. Really interesting and helpful info. After pay day next week I will be ready to buy and let you know what I go for!

[Pete49]

I'll just add a farthings worth to what John B said cheaper still) definitely buy a auto darkening helmet as when learning the hardest bit is trying to strike an arc when you can only go by feel. Regarding AC only just go cheap to start and then when you're ready buy whatever you feel you want. If only doing small jobs around home the costs of Migs and Tigs tend to kill off any savings, especially while learning. If you have a boilermaker or  good welder in your circle of friends ask them to teach you and ask for their advice. I was lucky as my late brother was a boilermaker and gave me the lessons and advice based on experience not a salesmen's versions on which way to start into this part of the hobby. Cheap solid benches are a good start
Anyhoo you have heaps of info in these threads so enjoy your next step.
Pete

[S. Heslop]

Stick welding isn't as hard to pick up as people like to pretend. Of course it's a different story if you're welding oil pipelines or pressure vesels, but for sticking things together in the garage you'd be amazed by how much even the ugliest of welds can hold.

I've said it already but i'll say it again. The only welder I own and have ever really used (I had a go at mig once) is the cheapest nastiest buzz box you can buy, which I got from Aldi. They're selling them right now in fact (check the amperage though, it says it's supplied with a standard plug so maybe they reduced the high end since when they'd sell it plugless). Every year up here they never sell that fast so they tend to get reduced. Don't buy into that adage that you need to buy high end stuff right off the bat since the features of high end tools often aren't required by hobbyists, and don't believe people when they say it's difficult to learn on on a cheap welder (it's easy to learn on any welder).

I'd say its worth buying some decent quality rods though. I bought a box of 3.2mm Murex 6013 rods a while ago and i've still got loads left. I store the rods in an old mini fridge I was given that doesn't work, I figure the seal should keep moisture out. I've also thrown in a bunch of sillica gel packets from shoes and stuff.


It's also worth maybe keeping an eye on ebay for an oxford oil filled welder. As of posting this some micky mouses are trying to get away with charging £400 for the things, but the price they usually sell for is around £30-50. They'll probably come down again when the eejits realise they can't sell them at such optimisitc prices. They're regarded as very robust and stable welders, and i'd like to own one but they never sell them up north.

[Dawai]

Stick welding?  My ac/dc hobart stickmate was the cheapest thing out for a while.  My miller synchrowave tig welder has a stick welding function, does a excellent job.

BUT for dragging it around the smaller 140lb hobart burns rods just fine. I normally keep "dry" 3/32nd rods here, 6011 for normal cold roll steel, 7018 for higher chrome-harder steels. THE 7018s can be a pain to strike for a newbie.

Striking a arc, you have two methods, for the normal rods you can scratch strike to initiate the arc, then pull back to your arc length, or bump strike, with the 7018s after the first burn it has a glass like flux over the ends and you have to hit them pretty hard to shatter that. 

HOT-start option.. is a wonderful thing, like a tig it has a super high voltage to "initiate the arc" you just get near the work and it lights up.. a tiny 120 volt miller welder I used at a nuclear plant for electrical hangers had that, it was the size of a small lunch box, auto-switched power from 120-to 220, seemed to run better on 220. They sent me into "containment" one day, and it was stolen within a hour from the gangbox outside the secure area. I wanted one for here at my home shop, well.. lil things are sometimes like diamonds.. that lil welder was then about $2k.

I also used that Hobart dc welder to derust car parts, like fenders.. with a huge tank of arm and hammer solution as a electrolyte. (very dangerous)   Each welding method has a place in the home shop. FOr sheet metal welds, I prefer the gas torch, for thick and quick welds I prefer the stick welder, for quick thin jobs not requiring ultimate strength the mig, for stainless and aluminum, well the tig rules. THE tig is actually a lot like gas welding with better heat control.

Rock on guys.. I got a big project here that is kicking my butt..

[vtsteam]

You can weld cast iron with a 7018 rod in a stick welder, too. Tried it this summer, and it worked. I was all ready for cracks and total failure, but it didn't happen.

There are more expensive purpose made rods for CI, and gas welding rod, too, plus brazing as methods. But I was really surprised to succeed with the 7018.

Here's a video on how to do that, which I watched before trying it:

[vtsteam]

And the same guy welding CI without pre-heat below. I combined both 7018, and no pre-heat back stepping, and it worked.

[Vernon Tuck]

Hi,

I'm late to the party as I'm a new member and this is my first post.

And quite frankly, I did not read the first sixty-six answers to your question. But no matter. I will re-invent the wheel as necessary.

About twenty years ago, I was asking your very question. An old geezer made this recommendation. I followed it and have no regrets.

Now I AM AN OLD GEEZER. Go figure...

Go ye forth and buy an oxyacetylene rig. Ideally, buy a torch model that has interchangeable tips that can burn propane. It is much cheaper, cleaner, and safer (better said "less dangerous") than acetylene. But it won't burn as hot. I'm told that you cannot weld with it. But you can cut, heat, bend, and braze steel with it. By getting a torch model that will accomodate these tips, and using the proper tip along with acetylene, you can also weld with it. Acetylene will weld steel, iron, and even aluminum if you know how. Acetylene welding built the world from about 1898 until the onset of world war 2, when "shielded metal arc welding" ("SMAW") aka "stick welding" eclipsed it.

Therefore, as your second acquisition, I recommend an old "stick welder". I would far rather have an old, used, industrial quality transformer based welder -- such as the "round top" Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC "stick" welder than a new shiny buzz box. Can you spell "duty cycle"?

If you can afford these two items simultaneously -- marvelous. Those items plus a good quality angle grinder and a few disks, and perhaps an abrasive "chop saw" and you will have what it takes to embark on a very rewarding life pursuit of making stuff. If you can afford only one item buy the gas welding rig. If you can afford only two, buy the gas welding rig and an angle grinder. The MECO MIDGET is a tiny torch with big capabilities but there are many many others.

The two most crucial big ticket items for gas welding are the regulators. They come in "single stage" and "two stage" flavors. I bought some antique Airco two stage regulators on ebay and then paid to have them rebuilt. They are far superior to the modern single stage regulators -- and classy too.

As to those who suggested you buy a MIG welder first, I vehemently disagree, especially those who recommend a low end, low powered, low duty cycle machine. A high end (big $$$) MIG machine would be the last thing on my list. A low end machine would not be on my list at all.

Just sayin'.

VT

[superc]

Hi Raynerd.
I am coming into this late, so I hope I am not too late.  All of the advice is good, well intentioned advice, but it is being presented in a vacuum as you lack hands on.  A decade or two ago I was in almost exactly the same place as you.  I had just bought a small farm on land filled with rocks.  In only a few months I had busted up more outdoor equipment than I had ever dreamed of even touching much less owning in the decades before.  Everything from snapped off mower blades to busted plows and torn sheet metals.  Yes, running to the local farm supply store and just going 'eenie meanie minie mo' and buying something was both an option and a strong temptation. 
Fortunately an older much more experienced individual gave me some good advice first.  His first comment, 'welding, if you don't know what you are doing, is potentially very dangerous.'  And no, he didn't just mean setting yourself on fire.  There are many other things that can go wrong.
His second piece of advise which I also followed was, 'check at the local college or trade schools and see if they offer any welding classes, then take them.'
I took welding classes starting with the basic of oxy acetylene and moving on to mig, tig and plasma.  Several semesters worth. 
One of the most important things you get out of such a class (besides some very good textbooks) is safety techniques.  Watch out for rosebuds, don't coil your cables and lots of other little things that will keep you from looking like a piece of burnt toast.  Another major thing you will get is hands on at the hands of an expert.  (Also some comradery with other students who are as new to all of it as you are.)  It is much better to feel hot steel in your hand in a classroom environment than learning by yourself at home.  Learning temper and heat treatment comes with good classes.  Brazing techniques, other stuff not even hinted at here.  Maintenance of your equipment.  Do you really need to plunk down $30 for a wire nipper or is that old pair of long nose pliers just as good.  Learn the answer while doing on someone else's equipment with an instructor watching over your shoulder.  After the school semester is done then think about what equipment will best suit your needs.  It is also very probable your instructor will have also mentioned by name some specific brands and types of equipment to NOT buy and he (or she) will probably have some good reasons for that advice and a tale or three to back them up.  Yes, I have an oxy rig, but because of what I learned in school (and experimentation done in class) there is no acetylene here.  Mapp (or even propane) is much safer for someone just starting out.  All of them can hit temps suitable for brazing and with a rosebud I can make old iron run into a puddle with Oxy-Mapp only a little bit slower than it will using Oxy-Acetylene.  I have tanks topple over fairly often (sad but true) as we bounce around in the pick up truck trying to get to the busted machinery out there in the back meadow.  I have a small wire rig also and thanks to the school classes a few sticks, a couple of marine batteries and the knowledge of how to do an emergency field repair to hold something together long enough for me to have someone with one of those really big stick rigs visit me and use his rig on the really thick metal.