How not to make a Japanese style toolbox

[RossJarvis]

Well then, I thought you might be interested in my further attempts at backyard chipentry.  Even if you’re not I’m still going to start posting about it anyway.  Having got a couple of Japanese saws I thought I’d look up my Japanese tool book again.  In there, the author mentions the traditional Japanese Carpenter’s tool-box, which seems very basic and simple and functional.  “Hey hey” says I, “even I could make that, shouldn’t be too difficult!”.  How wrong could I possibly be?  Scouting around t’internet there’s a good few how to do these and probably a few on UKWorkshop too.  However this is different, this is a “how not to build a Japanese(ish) tool box!”.

So then, I found a passing friend going to B&Q, cadged a lift and got some 12” by 1750mm boards;



…got round to finishing some low Japanese saw stools I’d started;



and ventured once more into the “workshop”;



I had bought 3 boards, having “ahem” carefully worked out how many I might need to do the job from my immaculate plans;



First thing was to work out how long to make it, my initial idea was to make it as wide and as high as a board and long enough for the longest tool to fit in.  As this is going to be my longest saw, I stuck a saw on the board at the end at an angle;




The front? of the saw is where the end of the inside of the box will be and there’ll be a bit of board across the top end about 3 inches wide, so I added 3” onto the end of the handle and rounded it up to a nice round number, this’ll be 30” long.  Next I marked square across the board;



…notice my nice new Japanese marking knife?  My old Footprint is not pointy and only works one way round, so instead of grinding it pointy I spent some money instead. ……and then cut three boards all at once;



…at this point I’m quite chuffed by following the line very closely and cutting right next to it and it’s cut square;



Next thing I realise is the board is rounded down one edge, “It’s shelving you plonker, course it’s got a rounded edge!”, plus one of the boards is a few mm narrower than the other two;



Hmm, this quick and easy five minute job’s starting to look like a bit like a two or three day-er now.  So time to sit down and have two cups of tea to sort out what to do.  The boards’ll need to be the same width, or two will at least, plus I think I’ll need to have flat tops or bottoms to glue to the other bits.  Wot I needs to do is plane the edges flat, together.  I could try clamping them together and standing them up, but I’m sure there’s a better way.  Aha, why not make a shooting board says I!;

So I get two of the other board ends, one sticking out to run the plane on, and one recessed to give clearance for the iron to plane edge and out with my trusty 5 ½ ;



Shhh shhh shhh and some nice long shavings;



However, after a little while the old lumbago started playing up and I realised why the Japanese sit on the floor with pull-planes, so I thought I needed some elevation;



…nope, that aint working;



…yep, that’s better, a couple of clamps and some wedged strips and oooh look at those nice fine shavings;



(it almost looks like I know wot I’m doing for a second!).  shh shhh shh for a bit and;



there’s some nice level boards and….;



yep, that’s square;



and straight.

To be continued…….

[Brass_Machine]

Hiya Ross,

I am sure you will make it through this just fine.  I am going to watch this.

Eric

[DavidA]

I can see your problem.  You're wearing the wrong sandals.

Dave

[PekkaNF]

Uuh huh?

Have you got:

Japanese woodworking tools
Their tradition, spirit and use

Toshio Odate

Book that titled must give you pain.

I got almost mad when I read it. Give me Krenov anytime. If you must - try Nakashima by George!

Pekka

[RossJarvis]

Uuh huh?

Have you got:

Japanese woodworking tools
Their tradition, spirit and use

Toshio Odate

Book that titled must give you pain.

I got almost mad when I read it. Give me Krenov anytime. If you must - try Nakashima by George!

Pekka

Hiya Pekka. Oh yes, that's the one.  I have Japanese Carpentry too, by Nakahara, the joints in there are enough to send you mad.  If I have another thirty years I may get some of the basics!

Dave, I have a solution to the sandal problem;

[awemawson]

  Cloven  hooves 

Must be the sulphur smelling monster himself   

[Arbalist]

Nice work so far, keep it up! 

[vtsteam]

Yes, doing a very good job!   

Krenov, Pekka, that brings me back. I had a boat shop in the 70's and read Krenov then. Made wood planes out of Osage orange, sharpened Japanese saws with feather file and set them with that tiny hammer, bought a hand operated grinding wheel and made his wooden guide for sharpening tools, and resawed  previously impossible widths with a 1/2" bandsaw blade. He was really something. An inspiration.

[TLGriff]

Ross.

It's always fun watching these step by step build threads. Thanks for taking the time to document you project. Nice job on the pics as we'll, what camera are you using?

Tom

[RossJarvis]

Ross.

It's always fun watching these step by step build threads. Thanks for taking the time to document you project. Nice job on the pics as we'll, what camera are you using?

Tom

Thanks Tom

It's a Nikon 1 V1, which was a steal at about £270 last year.  Super-fast focus and nice and small.

[RossJarvis]

Cloven  hooves 

Must be the sulphur smelling monster himself   

Awemawson

You don't know how useful a forked tail is, till you try making toast in front of a roaring log fire

[RossJarvis]

Right then ladies an Gennelmen, I have a wee confession to make, I started this box a week ago, so there is some delay, between the actions and the reportage, I am not finished yet so the reports will probably catch up soon.

The next bit is to make the ends.  These are recessed for some handles.  Now the width is, erm, let me think, the width of the board minus two thicknesses, that’s about……I know, measure the thickness of two boards, lay one across the bit I’m going to cut, take off the two thicknesses and hit it with the saw;



B****r, I knew I was being overly chuffed, this means a lot of shaving with the block plane, to get to the line;



 and…….b****r, test fitting showed I was too wide and the sides were about 5mm wider than the base with the ends in place;



 ……so I took 5mm off the ends with the saw (actually followed the line this time) and then the whole lot was about 3mm too narrow?????????????;



After a cup of thinking tea, I realised that one of the boards was a couple of mm thinner than the other two and I swapped them around too often!!  Should have marked each side and the bottom with big letters or summat.  Anyway, I thought it was either time to go in or carry on and glue and pin it up.  Typically, I made the wrong decision and carried on when it was obvious my thinking brain had decided to go inside without me.  I next put some temporary blocks inside the sides to stick the ends up to when putting it together  (the end pieces will go up to the inner side of these, as there’s a recess for handles at each end);



It put some effort and more thinking tea to come up with how to do this, with no work table and only two 12” handy clamps.  Bearing in mind my thinking brain was in-doors watching the telly, this proved to not be the best decision I’ve ever made, but that’s for tomorrow……..

[SwarfnStuff]

Great Post so far. I wait in eager anticipation for the continuation. Thanks for posting.
 
John B

[PekkaNF]

Yes, doing a very good job!   

Krenov, Pekka, that brings me back. I had a boat shop in the 70's and read Krenov then. Made wood planes out of Osage orange, sharpened Japanese saws with feather file and set them with that tiny hammer, bought a hand operated grinding wheel and made his wooden guide for sharpening tools, and resawed  previously impossible widths with a 1/2" bandsaw blade. He was really something. An inspiration.

On my honeymoon (or something....) once - we wandered into a bookstore that had extensive woodworking section and there I sat on floor reading books and putting them into ever growing pile...there is only so much you can pack into a suitcase and bring home. Mind you, we were going trough Texas and most of the Mexico on public trasportation and flying back home. I bought probably 7 books and one of them was The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking....sounds familiar?

Incidently, you are not a well bearded guy who wrote a book about boatbuilding. Keeping waterstone in frigid water?

Pekka

[RossJarvis]

As mentioned I am trying to catch up on a weeks work so you may be lucky enough to have more than one episode a day!

So, onto the blunders of the day.  As mentioned. The thinking brain was indoors watching Top Gear on Dave (for the 15 millionth time), whilst the body was outside.  Looking at the box, I thought it was looking a bit tall for it’s width and was also thinking about having a tray that fitted inside for bits n bobs n stuff.  “I know”, says I “build it, cut the top off, fiddle a bit to make the top smaller and you’ve got four sides of a tray to fit inside.”  So I bunged my tallest tool inside;



…and worked out that I’d need six inches clearance for the bottom.  I could then work out how big the top was, divide it in two, do a little fiddling for clearance etc and know how much to cut off.  Pure genius!

However, I then started sticking it together, somehow I now convinced myself that I was going to cut the top off six inches from the base!!!! So sellotaped the sides of the end bits 6” up so they wouldn’t stick to the side bits?!?;



squirted some glue on the end wotsits, cack handedly assembled these on the base-board and clamped the ends together and pinned the top and bottoms of the end wotsits from the outside;



This lot seemed square and level in the up and downward dimension as it was all flush and tightish to the board, so I flipped it over and pinned the bottom on, ensuring that the ends of the side-boards(!?!) were flush at one end of the base and one side at least, was flush with the edge of the base.

Now, as I’ve mentioned more than once, the thinking brain was inside, now having a snooze on the sofa.  I had a couple of options on joining the whole lot together, screws or nails.  The old traditional Japanese way is with nails and to my mind it’s a bit easier than screwing (fnaar fnaar).  So I bashed a couple of nails in free-hand;



T**s, B****r and other expletives, so I got out Mr Makita “He very tough, He very Strong” and drilled some pilot holes in for the rest.  Bash, Bash, Bish, Ouch, the base was on the sides and ends, all I had to do was bash the sides onto the end wotsits.  So I flipped it on its side, Bash, Bish, Bosh and job done.  However, had I checked that the end wotsits were supported when Bashing?  Course not, so they’d slipped down a bit and then got bashed into position in the wrong position;



…still I suppose it’ll help for drainage or air circulation or Summat.  I marked the centre(ish)lines of the boards for nailing, but left final positioning up to my own aesthetic principles;



I believe the non-even spacing is based on the Golden Section and therefore much more philosophically correct than using a rule.!!

I also realised that the edges of the end wotsits weren’t square to the faces, leaving more room for expansion (and too much for adhesion);



Anyway, it surely can’t get any worse can it? 


Hmmmm!  Have you ever had one of those days when you’ve thought “I don’t think I should have done that!” or “I really don’t think I should have gone out to the workshop today, cos my thinking brain is still asleep” or “WHY OH WHY OH WHY DID I GET OUT OF BED!!!”

Today has been one of those days.  I should have learnt the last time I tried to cut the lid off a box, or I should have got the table saw out, or I should have decided the box looked fine as it was.  Currently I don’t think I should have thought “I know, I’ll cut the top off that box, with a Japanese saw that I’ve not got used to yet”.

It almost started well.  I marked a line 6” up from the base on each side, then remembered that that’s the height of my plane.  So I measured from there to the top, divided that in two, thought a bit then guessed that 2 ½” down from the top would be okay, rubbed the first line out and marked the new line.  Next I started ripping along the lines at each corner, till I started cutting into the recessed ends and marked a line across from the kerfs.  So far so good.  I was noticing that there was a lot of juddering going on, which I hadn’t had when testing the rip side of the blades out.  I then tried ripping across the ends;



At this point, I was finding it a bit tricky as the saw was juddering quite a bit and it was difficult getting the angle right, plus I wasn’t following the line as well as usual.  I was thinking it might be because I wasn’t standing above the work.  Anyway, I cut across both ends;



..not brilliant but not too far out.  Next to rip down the sides.  For this the work was lower and I could put a foot on it, however;



Hmmmm, not quite on the line here, and I don’t think the blade should be over at that angle.  I carried on from the other end and joined the two cuts up.  Then I started on the other side and “OH WHAT THE B****Y H***S GOING ON HERE!!!”  I was getting frustrated with the saw juddering, then it was leaning more and more to the right and then I lost the line and will to live;


Here’s the top bit wot I cut off;



…and here’s the bottom bit wot I’ve got left;





and here’s where the b****y saw bit me;



All I can say is ****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve now got a box with a top edge all on the p**s (at an angle) in every b****y angle known to man and probably some unknown ones, plus some bits for a tray which is completely on the p**s in the opposite manner.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the b****y h**l am I gonna sort this out?  The options seem to be; a, lots of planing, once I’ve marked a new line to go to, by hand;  b, Getting out the planer and making a racket and shavings everywhere; c, unboxing the table saw and using that.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!

Todays main lesson learnt appears to be that using Japanese saws requires some practice and finding the correct technique and way of holding them.

B****r, I’m going outside, I may be some time!

[vtsteam]

Some suggestions:

1. Use clamps to pre-assemble and check for fit and square before adding fasteners.
2. Always drill for fasteners while clamped (for both nails and screws). Nails hold better if pre drilled, believe it or not.
3. Fasten while clamped, and check for square frequently if nailing. Use a light hammer for this type of work.
4. When sawing with Japanese saws, the angle should be quite low, just barely clearing your hand over the material. You are essentially marking with the saw ahead of the main cutting portion, and the saw will follow that line. Holding it near vertical can cause the saw to wander. They cut on the pull stroke, so relieve pressure on the forward stroke. Apply very little pressure on the pull stroke -- let the saw do the cutting. Position yourself so that you can see and so are able to prevent a bevel cut -- low and behind the stroke -- like your camera angle which illustrates the problem.

Hope this helps. Keep up the good work. Don't become discouraged!

[vtsteam]

In this photo, I wouldn't have started like this with the saw at a 45 degree angle. For a couple of reasons. You are cutting two sides at once. They will fight each other (judder).



Try to cut a single side at a time.  So I would start with the overlapping sides, rather than the end. When they were cut, I would come back to the ends. Keep the saw at a low angle when making long cuts.

[RossJarvis]

Thanks for the advice VTSTEAM,   I Wish you were a mind reader  and told me before I started!

As you'll find out I am still low on the learning curve here with these saws, and have followed a suggestion to keep the saw at a very low angle for rip cutting, which works, but is a lot slower.

If there is a next time I'll definitely do it differently

[vtsteam]

have followed a suggestion to keep the saw at a very low angle for rip cutting, which works, but is a lot slower.

Actually, it isn't a lot slower, it just seems slower because the length of cut is longer so the sawblade descends at a slower rate, but it is removing a good amount of material with each stroke since more teeth are cutting at a time. Also the coarsness of the rip side of the blade should be matched to the material for best speed.

Incidentally, fast growth hard pine like what you are using is a difficult material, with wide bands of alternating hard and soft grain. You are doing very well for starting out, and for having given yourself a real challenge.

Try out some practice cuts on scrap and see how close you can get to true and square rips. When you get the feel and rhythm down you'll find that Japanese saws are amazingly effective and accurate in your hands.

The real point is that the more you do it, the more you will acquire the "feel" -- that's why practice on scrap is extremely useful. But taking on a big project can get discouraging when things don't work out as they seemed to when pictured in your imagination. Don't quit. Concentrate on cutting a perfect line, not on making a toolbox, and you will find your enjoyment again.

[RossJarvis]

Ah lookee another instalment,

I measured how much of the top of the box had been Mullered, 3/8” and marked a line around to cut/plane to;



I’d been thinking over suggestions on how to do this and decided as it was quite a lot of wood that I’d need to remove at the corners, so I thunked that I’d cut them with the saw, as I wasn’t quite so crap at that.  Then I put some battens on to act as a guide;



Then I started cutting, the first corner I angled the saw down and cut, reasonably smoothly (VTSteam, this was all before your advice so apologies for continued idiocy);



….and the next corner I cut up, trying to vary the angle, but generally using a low angle (30ish degrees);  this went juddery or smoothly depending, I think I started realising why, it seems to be due to the thinness of the wood;



I noticed afterward, that even with the guide, I still wasn’t getting a straight/square cut (Possibly due to cutting through the two angles of wood);





There’s a lot more to using these saws than I’d thought!!

One side was fine;



but the corresponding end was still a bit on the p**s.  Luckily, the guide battens meant the cut went into the bit I didn’t want this time.   This was when rain occurred, so I came in to drink my tea on the sofa instead of the garden chair (need to get some Hob-nobs).  I then tried some thinking, which started to induce a head-ache.


Hennyway, the rain, rain went away (to Spain?) and I wandered back outside and put everything back out and trimmed the waste from the corners;





….jammed the end against a carefully positioned nail;



…and planed the wobbly bits off;



….surprisingly enough the results were pretty square and straight;





…apart from one little bit where I’d still managed to undercut;



Next job was to start ripping the top end-cappy wotsits, following sage advice, I laid the saw down;



…to the angle above and lower, this resolved a lot of vibration issues.  Hey Ho Nonny, a fairly straight cut;



I then discovered that the box was perfect to lay a plane upside-down in to trim the bits of wood straight and square;



…and made an excellent receptacle for the shavings;



…and before long one end wotsit bashed home;



…then another;



..and then a check to see if the saw fits;



…woopsie, another cock-up on the measuring front.  I’d forgotten to allow for the end recess when miscalculating the size.  However with a bit of bendification;



VOILA!

Nextly I ripped the edge off another bit of board, cut it to length and worked out how to hold it upright to plane the edge to size;



…and howzat, it fits;



A bit more ripping (note the nail wedged in to stop the wood binding on the blade which it was doing verily much);



and a couple of batten doo-dahs to hold the lid up;



..and hey ho, most of the major structure done;





…..a little bit of tartification on the corners to relive the arris’s



….and that’s the end of a good days work. 

[Stilldrillin]

Mornin Ross!

Thanks for another entertaining episode. 

Did you enjoy last night's steak n wine? (See..... I have been taking notice). 

I've learned a lot from your recent posts. But, I still prefer my angle grinder for finishing off/ tidying timberwork.
Got a couple of oversize fence panels. (Or is it undersize between posts)? To fit, this afternoon........ 

David D

[SwarfnStuff]

What an entertaining and dare I say informative piece of writing. So a lot of the information was how NOT to do, who cares? Good to learn from other's miscalculations, cheaper too,  Still a great read and project plus I thoroughly enjoyed the time it took to read. Keep at it.

John B

[Pete W.]

Hi there, Ross,

Looks like you've forgot the 'andles,          

And the fings wot 'old the candles.          

Seriously though, well done.           I particularly admire the way you manage without a 'proper' bench, or even a Workmate.

[RossJarvis]

Thank you very much for the kind comments Pete, John and David .  It's great to hear such positive stuff and that you're enjoying the progress.  I would like to hope that my own blunderings will encourage anyone with limited resources and experience "to have a go".  As John said, they may even learn from my mistakes !

David, Last night actually became my second Friday speciality, Salmon in Cream, with Cider Accompaniment.  This is SWMBO's preferred option to the masculine slab of meat.  Thanks for remembering, there will be a test at the end .  Good luck with the fence, surely there's nothing that an angle-grinder or Birmingham Screwdriver can't fix.

And now, Drumm-dee-diddle-de-drum.

Ladies, Gentlemen and Accountants, please get ready to take your seats for todays thrilling instalment of Ross-san's series in making shavings and sawdust

Nextly I was going to make the end wotsits that are used as handles for carrying the box (for' kandles Pete?).  All I needed was to make some bits of wood to fit in the recesses at the end of the box, with some spacers and job done.  Can’t be difficult can it?  I was going to cut an off-cut of board in half for this and thought that instead of ripping it, I could use the Japanese technique for cutting thin boards.  If dividing the board along the grain, they use something very like a marking gauge with a knife in it.  They slit down one side then slit the other and snap it.  So I tried slicing/knifing both sides of the board;



…and then leant on it to simply snap along the line.  Lean, LEAN, LEEEAAAANN, nope, no breaking.  So I had to b****y well rip it.  Not noticing any great improvement from the boots yet;



Plane the edges neat and square;



Trim the edges to make the hand holds nice and smooth;



put some spacers in the end of the box;



and all I need to do is pop the handles in, simples;



B******s, another miscockulation.  I’m thinking I measured the gap at the end with two bits of thin board and am trying to fill the gap with two bits of thick board.  So, bang a couple of nails in the “workbench”, jam the boards up to them, shhhh, shhh, shhh, with the No 5 ½  bam, bam, bam and Hey Presto (My Granddad was called Morrison, wonder if it's any relation);



Two nice flush end wotsits, so now one finished outer box (sans rope handles and internals);



Next task is plane the edges of the bits which will make the sides of the tray;



Here you may notice my planing arrangement on my “high-tech workbench”; a few nails to stop movement and hoping that it is upright.  Then I checked to see if the tray will fit in above the plane and leave 15mm clearance for the lid;



As I’ve done so little, I thought I’d show you my nuts!;



The apprentice says he could do with a couple, what with that little operation he had and all!  That’s 2 ½ kilos of wild hazelnuts (Cobnuts to those of you from Kent), picked up over three days going for a walk with the apprentice.  Should save me a couple of quid come Christmas.

Then I got distracted, due to not want to face carrying on planing so I nailed a couple of off-cuts across the bottom for "feet".





That should keep it away from the crud and wet on the “workshop” floor.  Then I had a look at the last bit of board, that’s going to be the bottom of the chisel tray;



Hmmm, I believe that’s called “cupping”, just remember that if you’re thinking of buying pine shelving from B&Q!  This means I’ll have to nail it to the bottom of the side and ends of the tray.  This poses a problem, as the tray bits are just about the right size to fit under the lid and I had intended the base to be nailed “inside” them.  So for no particular reason (apart from not wanting to cut or plane the side/end bits any more) I thought I’d plane a rebate for the base to fit into.  So I nailed a bit of batten along the edge of the “side bits”;



and had a go with the handy No 311;



However I did notice that the rebate was not particularly square across the bottom and wondered if it was due to the blade(iron) not coming out of the slot square;



I re-sharpened the iron twice, but it was still on the p**s (Positional Instability Sloping Situation) and I think it might be because the bed for the iron is actually machined with the Positional Instability problem.  I also noticed that I was not holding the plane particularly square either, so who knows, so I gave up and came in.

TTFN

[RossJarvis]

Hmmm, Hrrmmmph.  I can truly say it’s been one of those days of ups and downs, I think the downs won though.

I was going to finish the rebates for the sides of the chisel tray.  Remembering there was a “Positional” issue with the shoulder plane iron, I thought I’d see if I could re-sharpen it and be third time lucky.  First of all I checked if my water-stones were flat.  Nope, so I used the high-tech flattening system. One; draw pencil lines across the stone;



…two; prepare flattening station, here I’m pouring water on the concrete flag-stone in the “workshop”;



….three; rub it up and down and round and round, till you remove the pencil marks;



…check with a straight edge in all directions, if flat, sharpen plane iron;



General improvement and it’s now slightly cock-eyed to the other side.  Anyway, it worked, however it takes a long time and many cups of tea to make this many rebates;



..it was actually sharp enough to go through a knot with no real problems;



Nextly I noticed the lid to the tool-box had wedged itself shut, The wood’ s been moving a fair bit and I think it’s sucked up a fair bit of humidity  (rain?) from the air.  Having gently removed the lid with a block of wood and a framing hammer, I bevelled the edges which seemed to resolve the problem;



You might see that not only has the wood got fatter, it also cupped despite the batten across it.  Following this, I ripped and trimmed some more board to make the base of the tray,cut the sides to length, glued and pinned them on and checked the ends for fit.  These needed side “rebates” so out with Mr 311 again;



shhhmm, shhhmm, shhhm, Pare with a chisel;



bash bang ‘ouch’ and;



Woopsie, that’s a pin which went 90 degrees round a corner and out again;




…and there we go, nearly there.  I was feeling tired, the light was about to fade so I thought I’d pack away, then;



…that’s what happens when you try to stick your water-stones away, on top of the fridge-freezer, without turning the light on in the larder.  B****r, B******s, ****!!!.  That’s a brand new stone, ordered from Japan, that I only got three weeks ago. T**s, B*****y and B******s.  I think I’m going to have to use that for sharpening the nail scissors from now on, S**t.

TTFN.