Looking to replace my aged and worn ML7

[ParCan]

Hi All. Looking for some guidance from the vast knowledge that abounds here.

My Workshop is in the Box Room on the 2nd floor so whatever I buy it's got to go up 2 flights of stairs.

I started with a Mini Lathe, that was simply not up to what I was asking it to do.
There is nothing wrong with the mini lathes, please don't get me wrong. I just couldn't accomplish any tasks in a fair time.

I replaced the mini lathe with an early (1950's) ML7 and have put a lot of effort and money in to this machine.
Totally cleaned and rebuilt.
Metric Screws and Dials.
New Belts.
Rebuilt motor and drive train.
Totally re setup with new shims and where required strips.

At the end of the day this machine is worn and you can not adjust the wear out. Get it nice in 1 place and it tightens up in others.
Cross slide is not bad, but the Compound is badly worn.
Saddle is very worn.
Bed is very worn.
Feed screw is good.
The Spindle and bearings are worn but still good.

I also have a heap of Myford and MT2 Tooling which also fits the Mill (AMA16) I have.

So:
Do I Regrind a good but worn machine ?
Do I look at another Myford, probably a Super 7 ?
Do I buy one of the smaller Boxford's or something similar, if so what ? (Remembering I have to get it to the workshop)
Do I go even bigger, something like a Colchester and pay to get it put upstairs ?
Do I look at the Larger brand new "Hobby" Lathes. Something like the AMA280VF (though I'm not a fan of variable speed. If I want it slow it's usually cos I want the torque)

I have to say that a Good Super 7, Maybe an ML7R is where my mind is generally heading but i'm open to your thoughts.

Thanks.
Alex.

[Fergus OMore]

 I had a phone call only yesterday about a Post Bag article that I put into Model Engineer years back.
I'd had a friend's ML7 bed  'Blancharded' which formed the basis for the restoration of sorts.
It was a £50 job- not bad but not in the same league as the one on the more recent Super 7 B that I'd bought as a 'basket case' after some comedian had done mahogany turning on it and had an almighty jam up.

OK, if the bearings on a ML7 are OK or can be tackled cheaply, the rest is possible fairly cheaply.

I live just out of Newcastle and took mine down to Blue Diamond at Shildon where my blacksmith grandfather had come from.
I'd discussed the slideways grind which was £200 and the question of the worn saddle arose. Blue Diamond built it up with Turcite to line up with the leadscrew etc alignment. I guess that was £50.

The rest, the broken gears and whatever were my responsibility and so was the minimum of scraping in.

Basically, I now have quite a sound lathe which will 'see me out'

What has to be said is that I had had a substantial amount of Myford tooling- some bought some home made- and this goes to versatility of the lathe.

As an aside, I had a bit of that phone call about the guy with a ML7R and box that had a quarter of a thous 'lift' on the nose of his spindle. I gave him an evasive answer( Don't ask- don't dare)

cheers

N

[bp]

I read somewhere that there are a couple of ex Myford service guys travelling up and down your country.  By all accounts they do a very very good job.
Apart from the fact that you don't have something "new" I've always preferred refurbishing over replacing.  Especially if all the bits that can wear are new or refurbished, and you have a lot of tooling and history.
cheers
Bill

[John Stevenson]

Problem with Blanchard or Lumsden grinding it will only do the top flats, will not take account edge and under the ways wear so it's really cosmetic.

The two Myford lads are good to all intents and purposes but you need to let them loose on a decent machine to start with that wants a tune up. Labour costs of them spending 3 days trying to get a worn bed into spec is just not on.

Personally I'd give Jim Marshall a ring at lathe parts, he's the guy who breaks Myfords and sells the bits on Ebay, always has everything photo'd on a red tablecloth.

He usually doesn't sell beds as they are too big / heavy to ship but if you collect chances are you can get a very good bed for far less than a regrind.

[Fergus OMore]

Problem with Blanchard or Lumsden grinding it will only do the top flats, will not take account edge and under the ways wear so it's really cosmetic.


He usually doesn't sell beds as they are too big / heavy to ship but if you collect chances are you can get a very good bed for far less than a regrind.

Agreed but at it still means a fair amount of scraping and fitting- with wear at 6" from the chuck end. Removing that and sorting out the worn central guide is hardly cosmetic!

Well, that was my take!
 
N

[ParCan]

As always, a range of views and ideas.
Interesting that many of you have suggested that I should keep and refurb the machine I have.

If that is the way I go the I'm not going to do 1/2 the job. The bed needs a regrind or possibly replacing.
Replacing the bed is another option I had not considered, if I did that I'd het a matched Bed and saddle.

Looking around, a Super 7 is going to cost me ~ £1200 - 1500. A "Good" Super 7 closer to £2000
I'd gain a gearbox which I would definitely use.
An additional speed or 4, mostly faster (and seldom required)
I might get a power crossfeed.
Not sure if i'd use a Clutch all that much.

As things stand I'd get around £500 for the ML7 on a good day.
£700 buys a lot of work on the existing ML 7.
I however doubt it's market value will improve greatly where a Super 7 will hold it's value a lot better.

To many variables to think about here and now. I'm going to investigate replacing the bed/Saddle and getting Myford to regrind what I have.

Thank you for all your answers.

Alex.

[Bluechip]

Not sure if i'd use a Clutch all that much.

Alex.

Probably because an ML7 doesn't have one ???
 
I have a S7 and use the clutch a lot. Better than repeated stop/start with the motor surely ?
 
My first Myford was a ML7/T with the Tri-Lever, on that you just kicked out all the selector levers to free-wheel it.
 
Dave

[ParCan]

Why can't anything be easy !

Ok: Myford don't do regrinds at the moment.
http://www.lathespares.co.uk/ can do the Regrind for around £165.
Add in another £100 for the Saddle and Cross slide and another £100 or so for Postage I can see the thick end of £400 going into this machine. That's more than I paid for it in the first place !

I have yet to talk to the ex Myford guys who will travel to do it but I have a feeling with transport it's not going to cost a whole lot less for a no doubt good but very different job.

Then you see things like : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111145741916 and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370881728542
OK - they both have time to run and I bet they both go for over £1500 but are a far superior machine in so many ways.

Decisions, decisions.....

[NickG]

If you want an upgrade on the myford ML7 and are pushed for space go for a boxford, they are compact with the underdrive yet have substantially larger capacity than the myford.

[ieezitin]

Part it out... be-done with it.

don't get attached.

pay a fare market price for a machine that's workable/ function-able. don't spend time fixing up, patching up or repairing horror's. Enjoy your machining hobby.

Anthony........   

[ParCan]

Oh Bother.

I put in a fairly speculative Bid on this. And I won it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111145741916

Now I have to work out how to get it from the wrong side of Birmingham to Chelmsford in Essex !

[awemawson]

a/Have you tried shiply.com ?

b/ there is a fellow calling himself 'landylift' who advertises on the home workshop site that moves things like that

[Deko]

Ay up Parcan,
                    From a north west perspective Shrewsbury is very much the RIGHT side of Brum.  

Cheers Dek. 

P.S. Good luck with your new toy.

[PekkaNF]

Oh Bother.

I put in a fairly speculative Bid on this. And I won it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111145741916

Now I have to work out how to get it from the wrong side of Birmingham to Chelmsford in Essex !

That looks and sounds very nice. If I would get a wif of anything like that here I would take my trailer and take a day off to drive over 500 km oneway to get such a beauty.

Pekka

[awemawson]

Here you go - from the Homeworkshop' site:


Call Steve Cox on 07836 736496 or email landylift@aol.co.uk for quote. Machinery removal and transportation service based in WestYorkshire, UK coverage. Crane can lift 1100kg at 2 metres and 450kg at 4.6 metres. Vehicle can carry 850kg on 7 foot x 6 foot flatbed. Up to 1100kg ...

[ParCan]

1 Van Hired.
400+ miles driven.
£ Notes handed over.
2 Happy People.
1 Lathe back home and unloaded.

It's every bit as nice as the pictures

Now to work out how to get it up the stairs.
I cab take some of the weight out of the lathe. The Cabinet is another matter.

[PekkaNF]

1 Van Hired.
400+ miles driven.
£ Notes handed over.
2 Happy People.
1 Lathe back home and unloaded.

Well done. No fiddling about. Carefull on last leg.

Pekka

[ParCan]

New Toy is coming along nicely.

Cab is washed down. Something has got to the paint quite badly in a few areas.
I'll get some new ordered and make it look a bit nicer.

Next job is attempt 1 at getting it up the first flight of stairs. I'm sure it's gona pick up a few scrapes.

Had a proper look at the Lathe itself.
It really is in nice all round condition, Hardly any wear. Its has /some/ use but very little.

To get the Lathe up stairs I have taken off the Motor, Saddle and Apron and a few other bits to reduce the weight.
Cab is welded steel and there is nothing but the Riser Blocks to pull off that. It's also 5 ft long !

Motor is full of wood dust, as are the Drive Pullys.
Gib Strip in the Compound is bent ! - No idea how but it's bent.

Started to look at the Saddle and it's all gunked up in old solid Grease.
Oh well - stared to clean it and it's been Lubed with Blue Grease of some ilk.
Stripped the entire saddle and cross slide apart and cleaned it.
More rags etc. and the worst of it has gone.

And It Fits !
No Broken bones. A few sore backs no doubt but both the Cab and Lathe are now in their new home.
Now the wife Can't decide she wants to move !

[tom osselton]

Could the gib be curved to give it some spring? I thought I saw that somewhere on this site.

[ParCan]

Lathe all setup and working.
I have just faced and turned down an odd bit of 1.2" It machined wonderfully Lovely and smooth.

The Long bed Myfords are HUGE by comparison. The Cab is 5' long.
I's fairly clean now and all lubed. A Litre of white spirit, a can of WD40 and 1/2 L of Vectra later.
The Gear Box was as good as empty !
The Lead Screw was really really nasty. Full of solidified grease and wood dust. That took a while to dig out.

All the slides have been pulled apart and rebuilt. They all run beautifully smoothly with no tight spots. Just the way they all should be.

The Gib strip in the top slide was in the wrong way around so the locator was in the wrong place. It was bent at an angle of 30 deg or so. I have no idea but that must have taken some serious force.   

All in All it's condition is VERY Good.
Serial number is: KRL 164563  Any Idea when it was made. I'm guessing it's one of the last....

[awemawson]

Looking very good, I'll bet the house smells lovely after:

" A Litre of white spirit, a can of WD40 and 1/2 L of Vectra later."

Bet you are glad you changed rather than taking ages restoring your original one 

[NickG]

Looks very nice, looks like you got a good deal there. Any reason you wanted a long bed or just went for it as it was in good condition?

[ParCan]

It's a Long Bed because it was there and I won it. No other reason.
I threw in a bid on Ebay and really didn't expect to win. That machine should have gone for over a £1000, it's certainly worth that....
It really is hardly used and in superb condition all round.

[NickG]

that's how I recently ended up with a boxford shaper too! Got it back and like yours it's hardly been used! Have just been swapping the 3ph motor for the one that came off my original ML7 - it is the same make and exactly the same size, only 1/2hp rather than 3/4 but many came with 1/2 anyway. Hopefully the wiring will go ok, not sure whether the switch gear will work even though it is dual voltage 

[ParCan]

A plain 1 ph motor can start in any direction.
The Myford motors come with an AC Start setup and have a centrifugal switch that disengages once it's up to speed.

Just the main windings can be used but you will need to spin the motor to start it.
Or you can wire up the Starting windings. I guess you only need it to go 1 way so just connect the main to the start windings.
No electrickary needed.

[NickG]

It'll work fine but just wondering whether the nvr switch gear will work or whether it needs 3 phase. The thermal overload things might kick in because think it draws more current single phase, that'd be a pain.

[Fergus OMore]

Nick, The wiring diagrams for Myford lathes are on the net. The symbols of the motors  wiring connections  are under the individual  motor covers.

Off hand, I suspect that most older drum type Myford switches are faulty because of arcing or wear.

[ParCan]

I'm well versed in turning things dry or using a spray bottle for coolant.

Now I have the required tray etc. I was thinking today (during a rather boring meeting) about a coolant pump.
I have a Motorcycle fuel pump kicking around.

Will that work ? It has a pressure switch on it, no idea what pressure though.....

What does the Tank need to be made from ? I don't want it to get eaten through.... It needs to be Low Cost ! Old plastic oil can ? Petrol Can ?
I have some Plastic pipe that would (Should) be suitable.

I guess i'll need to buy some sort of wiggly tube with a tap on it.

Comments and ideas welcome.

[Fergus OMore]

Myford/ Pressure pump/coolant??????


If you want to cover you and who and what- do it. In a rash moment, I bought one of those confounded things- and ended up with---- a rash.

Me? I have a cheap paint brush, a pate jar and some lard oil. 

[doubleboost]

I used a pond pump for years in my Colchester
Cheap on ebay 240 volt fully submersible
A large plastic tank is all you need
Buy decent soluble oil
I use water all the time on my boxford
John

[ParCan]

Got it all setup and tightened down.
From 4 loose nuts and a bit of bar in the chuck the dial gague on the end of the bar does not move as I tighten it down.

With a bit of 3/4 bar in the chuck and a centre on the end I have turned a 14" length.
End to end I have .007mm More than good enough for me

Hope to get some time to do some work at the weekend. May well look at the coolant pump idea.
Cheepo articulated pipe doofahs arrived today. looks like a 1/2" BSP thread on the bottom.
I'm sure I can bore that.
I have a bit of 3/4 square ally and some T nuts to make a clampy doofah whatsit.
I have something suitable for a feed pipe and some plastic tube.
Local shop sells a variety of plastic storage boxes for a tank.

I'll try and take some pictures as I go.

[awemawson]

The test for parallelarity is to turn a piece without a centre support from the tailstock - not so easy unless the bar is stiff enough. The cetnre will pull the bar considerably.

The classic method is known as 'Rollie's Dad's Method' and is linked here:

http://www.neme-s.org/Rollie's_Dad's_Method.pdf

[Trebor]

You lucky sod ! I would have liked one like this, what spindle bore size is this one ? I got my s7 out of the paper adds years ago local. Didn't know much about them at the time, still don't, otherwise  I would have saved up for a big bore one.

[ParCan]

Spindle Bore is the standard Myford 16mm so not a Big Bore.

Spent another 2 hours removing blue grease from various places.

Took the top off the gearbox and found more blue grease so drained the oil and there are (were) globs of it in the bottom.
After running the oil through a paper filter (cos most of it is brand new) to remove what I can the Paper looked very clean. Few large bits of swarf. Some large grease globs but no fine matter. I say the oil is good to go. I'll run it for a while and probably change it when all the grease contamination has washed itself into the oil in a few months time.

Chucked up a lump of 1" bar and used "Rollies Dads" method to true it all up.
It was about .2mm out over 400mm
A quick adjustment to the rising blocks and it's darn near spot on.
Thanks awemawson for the method.

I think once I redo the tail I'll be good to go

[ParCan]

Took apart the Fuel pump. It's quite a nice lil Pump / Motor all in 1 sealed unit.
It's also got a nylon bag type filter on the bottom which should keep the crud out.
A Suitable bucket which fits inside the cab was found.
A suitable bit of pipe that fits the drain hole has also been installed so it don't miss said bucket.
Bucket filled with a suitable mix of Coolant.

Pipework connected to check the pump and the pump works
Pump is dangling in the bucket secured with a cable tie or 3.
Electrical connections made.

Now to make a bracket for the feed pipe doofah...

A bit of 3/4" Square ally was put in the 4 jaw.
8.5mm hole was put in the side for a pipe connection and tapped M10.
Drilled 15mm deep X 10 dia and bored out to 11.5mm to meet with the M10 hole.
Found 19TPI on the gear box. 55deg threading tool fitted. Back Gear engaged.
Decided the forwards / reverse method was best for 19TPI (A BSP pipe Thread)
Managed to cut the thread really nicely, and without bottoming out !
Odd bit of 10mm dia brass drilled then the outside Threaded M10 for the pipe connection.
8mm hole and a Suitable Bolt to mount it on the cross slide.

Connected it all up and it's a bit to much flow and far to much presure.
Suitable 10R resistor wired in series and it's perfic

I have a coolant pump

[ParCan]

1st turning job under way.

I'm making cable nipples for the brake cables in my Car.

It has Manually adjusted Cable drums all round. No Hydrolics on that one!

Adjusters are made.
Cut M6 threaded brass to length. Drill 2.2mm through and centre drill Both ends. The end end should be deeper with a nice chamfer.
The cable is around 2mm outside dia.

Cut the cable and clean it. Flux it well.
Flux the hole well and feed the cable through + 2.5mm
Clamp the bottom and peen over the inner cable. It'll spiral and Mushroom into the chamfer if you get it right.
More flux then Silver solder it. Make sure it flows all the way through.
Put a nice fillet on the bottom and hey presto.
Clean ALL the flux off the steel cable or it'll rot through.

3 adjuster ends made and soldered. Still need to remake all the fittings and oddments.