Author Topic: How do i make a step cutting diagram.  (Read 12191 times)

Offline NeoTech

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How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« on: July 24, 2013, 08:18:30 AM »
A little birdie told me that i could cut radiuses by calculating the "steps" for that radius and then bled the steps with a large file..  This got me curious..  How do i create one of these stepping diagrams? I couldnt find any description in my machinist books or in my CAD software.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline sparky961

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 08:39:33 AM »
Given a bit more information, I could probably offer some help.

Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 08:54:15 AM »
I need to cut a radius profile on a bunch of roller blanks for a home made english wheel im trying to make.. But i dont have a radius cutter.

But, a Radius of say.. 20mm could be cut with several step cuts, and then blended with a file to the smooth radius. i Just need to figure out how i make a diagram so i know how many steps and how deep each step should be cut on my lathe.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 09:11:48 AM »
I think Marv has a program that calculates that. Let me look for it.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 09:14:11 AM »
mklotz has some freeware that may assist.

go HERE

Eric
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 09:23:07 AM »
Gonna check em out, have had problem in the past running his programs (damn you windows 7, 64 bit)
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 10:33:42 AM »
A little birdie told me that i could cut radiuses by calculating the "steps" for that radius and then bled the steps with a large file..  This got me curious..  How do i create one of these stepping diagrams? I couldnt find any description in my machinist books or in my CAD software.

Guy Lautard wrote that up in one of his Machinist's Bedside Reader books.  Basically, you trig out the corner of your (square edged) tool at points around the radius of your ball.

Let's say that you want to turn a R1.000 inch ball using cuts every 10° around its circumference.  You will need two tables -- one for the tailstock side of the cut (i.e. to the right on most lathes) and one for the headstock side of the cut (i.e. to the left on most lathes).  Further, you are going to use a .250 inch wide cutter for the task.  (Your assumptions will vary.)

Setup: You have the bar firmly chucked or colleted in your lathe.  The cutter protrudes at least 1.000 from the toolholder.  The tailstock end of your bar has been dressed to a nice clean and square end.  You pick that face up with the left-hand face of your cutter using a shim to establish a true position and set your longitudinal measuring device (DRO, travel dial indicator, etc.) to -1.000.  Using the same type of technique, set your cutter to the centerline radius of your bar (ø2.000 assumed for the sake of ease) and set your radial measuring device to +1.000.  You are now at your operational zero point.

In a spreadsheet, set a cell (A1 assumed for simplicity) value to 10*pi()/180 (i.e. 10° expressed in Radians).  Set (B1 assumed for simplicity) to a value of 1.000 (i.e. the radius of your ball).  Set a cell (C1 assumed) to .250 (i.e. the width of your cutter).

Lay out an array of cells (call it A5 through I5) to increment the angle from 0° (A5) to 90° such that cell B5 is set to =A5+$A$1 to increment the angle.  Copy that value (B5) across from C5 through I5.  You should now have an array of angles going: 0, 10, 20, 30, ... 90.  Row 6 is going to be the longitudinal offset value and Row 7 is going to be the radial offset value.  Thus, the value for cell A6 is going to be: =-1*$B$1*cos(A5).  The value for cell A7 is going to be: =$B$1*sin(A5).  When you copy those values out from A6/7 through I6/7, you will have your table of values for the tailstock side of the cut.

The headstock side of the cut is the same -- lets place it using Row 8 for longitudinal and Row 9 for radial offsets.  A8 will be defined as =-1*A6+$C$1.  A9 will be defined as: =A7.  Copy them across from A8/9 through I8/9 and you will have values for the headstock side of the cut -- though it should be obvious that you are going to stop before you reach the 90° mark, right?

Just remember that spreadsheets use Radians for all their trig functions.  pi()/180 is the factor for converting degrees into Radians.

Offline mklotz

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 11:39:59 AM »
Gonna check em out, have had problem in the past running his programs (damn you windows 7, 64 bit)

Read the Introduction on my page.  DosBox will solve that problem.

The programs you want to look at are BALLCUT and ROUNDER.
Regards, Marv

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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2013, 11:48:56 AM »
Gonna check em out, have had problem in the past running his programs (damn you windows 7, 64 bit)

Read the Introduction on my page.  DosBox will solve that problem.

The programs you want to look at are BALLCUT and ROUNDER.

I knew he had a solution.  :smart:
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 02:53:44 PM »
The radius is more for clearance of the work piece, the part that does the actual work is the anvil's contact in the middle that you are squezing to form the curve so the actual radius doesn't have to be super acurate.

Tom

Offline andyf

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 03:47:25 PM »
I'm a simple soul, and to do something similar I scaled up as far as a piece of graph paper would allow (in my case, I think a single square represented 0.1 or 0.2mm),  drew a quarter circle, and read the co-ordinates off the X and Y axes of the graph.

Or, I have a program which gives the co-ordinates for drilling a ring of holes around a given PCD. That would adapt to the job if told to calculate for a large number of small diameter holes. Nice little program, but I can't remember where I found it.

Andy

PS I think this is it < http://swarfer.co.za/lathe/pcd.php >
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 04:23:46 PM »
So basicly this is what i got out from it.  I think i will take the paper approach to this - The math was usefull though, it made it easier to understand..  =)

Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2013, 04:48:22 PM »
If you use google sketchup (a free cad program with an emphasis on being easy and intuitive to use, even if it is a bit limited) you could draw a circle of the number of sides you want by typing "Xs" into the dimensions box and hitting enter, to give X amounts of sides.



Then join them up with lines and measure them directly. It's not as elegant as doing it mathematically but it should work.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 07:27:46 PM »
Now that you have your steps, you might be interested in a good procedure, also mentioned by Lautard, if I remember correctly.

Without a DRO, you cut from the center toward either end of the curve, rather than from one end to the other end. If you cut from the center both ways, you won't have to wind the cross slide out and in again for backlash compensation on each step past the midpoint in the sequence.

Hope I've got that right. Don't have the book in front of me.

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Offline tom osselton

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 02:09:00 AM »
So hows the english wheel coming?  :coffee:

Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i make a step cutting diagram.
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2013, 06:59:52 AM »
It really isnt making contact wheel thats equal both sides wasnt as easy as i thought. And no need to start on the frame until i got the hard parts figured out
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/