E-Bay find. New CNC lathe and Mill

[ibuildstuff4u]

So I'm in the market for a CNC mill and ran into a deal I couldn't pass up.  It's a sherline CNC lathe and milling macine that I picked up on E-Bay for $149.00 for BOTH machines.  I still have to work out shipping, but hopefully I can have them shipped for under $300.  I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them yet as I already have a nice CNC lathe and the mill is smaller than I want.  I might retrofit them to work with Mach 3 and then sell them locally or keep them to play around with.  Guess I could use the lathe as a second operation lathe and play around with the mill until I can find something larger.   I could get the Y axis extension kit from A2Z CNC which would give me 11" of travel and then the mill would work out for my projects.

Here is the link to the auction.  Let me know what you think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130963721355?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Dale P.

Here is a picture of the machines.  I wish I had some pictures that showed the inside as I really want to know what it has inside for stepper drives.  Hopefully they are good enough where I can just add a new breakout board and get them running with Mach.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Hello Dale,

I have a Denford MicroMill that I converted to Mach although mine's 4 or 5 yrs older than yours and probably has a little different controller.  Mine has a 1996 SmartStep3 1/2 step 2A 40V control that still works well for what it is.

AFAIK all Denfords from back then use serial controls with proprietary software, dongles and such.  I'll bet your controls are set up similar to mine and you'll find a serial sub-board plugged into the control itself.  You jerk that puppy off and there's a 96 pin header (standard .100" spacing) under it that you can attach step/dir/gnd signal wires from a parallel port B.O.B. and go at it with Mach.

You'll be disappointed with the Sherline hardware as it's tiny, has tiny leadscrews (NO BALLSCREWS) tiny little brass leadscrew nuts and the machine itself is aluminum.  Made for tiny little work and backlash is a constant issue.  Sadly, nothing at all like your lathe.  The spindle motor and KB speed control are pretty decent though.

The Denford enclosure and the electronics stuff is first rate.  Go here: http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=36 and after you learn what's where you can find everything you want to know incl. manuals, instructions on how to Mach/hack the control, etc.  Great bunch of guys though you may have a little trouble with UK English?

Be glad to help if I can.

Milton

[ibuildstuff4u]

Yeah I had a D&M mill in the past which is pretty much the same machine as this new mill.  I retrofitted it to work with Mach 3 and was disappointed with the performance so I sold it.  The largest problem was the Y axis only had 3" of travel. I also re used the D&M motors and drives and they were really weak so it was easy to loose steps which was really annoying.  This new machine has 5" of Y travel which makes it more usable.  Hopefully the drives and motors are a bit stronger than the D&M machine. 

I'm still not sure what I will do with the machines.  I'm pretty sure the lathe will get a cheap breakout board installed so I can run it with Mach and then post it on Craig's list.  I will keep the mill for a while until I can get a larger one.  Perhaps I will even keep it just for engraving and such. 

I would love to see some pictures showing the electronics for your denford mill if you have any to send.  Not a big deal if you don't have any.

Here is a picture of my old D&M mill.

Dale P.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Here's a couple pics of the elec. stuff Dale.
Bottom left: cheapy non-opto isol B.O.B. - Center bottom: power strip - Bottom right: CNC4PC C3 Spindle Index Card - Top left: SmartStep3 stepper controller (see other pic) Top center: extra KBIC-120 speed control (ran a homemade add-on ER32 lathe spindle w/treadmill motor - Top right: 24VAC transformer (supplies powder to S/Step3)

The bridge rectifier on the board burned out so I replaced it & added a heatsink & extra fan to make it last.  The red/white/black wires in the center of the board are Futaba r/c servo connectors that go from the 96 pin header over to the B.O.B.  The proprietary serial board used to go in the open area on the left side of the board.  The stepper output wires are on the right.

I think yours will have a similar but later version controller

[ibuildstuff4u]

Thanks for the pictures.  I thought the machines were going to look more like my old D&M mill, but I see the stepper drives are a lot different.  I hope they are a lot stronger than the D&M drives as it was really easy to make the mill miss steps.

I'm 99% sure I will sell the lathe right away and just buy a cheap breakout board such as the C-10 and get it running.

As for the mill, I was thinking of using this new all in one box with three stepper drives and a breakout board.  It will handle up to 60 volts input and can drive up to 6 amps per axis.  The price tag of $260.00 isn't too bad for what your getting.  [url]http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/gecko-drivers/3-axis-dsp-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a/url]

I have to set up a freight company to pick up the machines so hopefully I can have them here in a week or two.

Dale P.

P. S.  I finally broke down and bought a copy of Mach 3 so now I don't have to worry about running out of lines any more.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Dale I wouldn't waste any money on new electronics as the Sherline hardware is the weak link.  The supplied steppers & driver will be great if they are working OK.  Shouldn't have any missed steps problem unless you try to make it go too fast or make heavy cuts.

I nosed around a bit and I think yours will have a "Denstep" controller (similar to my SmartStep3) which should work with step/dir input once you've ditched the serial sub-board.  It will have at least 2A @ 40V output, maybe more since the pics I found show a much larger power transformer.

ps: If you do decide to ditch the original control, let me know before you pitch it.

[ibuildstuff4u]

Sounds good.  I will start off with a cheap breakout board and see how they run.  My old D&M was really bad and I could easily stall it while cutting plexiglass, but it sounds like this control system will be a little better.

I will have to take a look at the web and see if I can find the pictures that you found as they sound interesting.  I tried to search for Pitsco micromills and lathes, but didn't find any info.  I will try looking under Denstep and smartstep 3.  I won't get the machines for two weeks as I am waiting for all the info I need to get a shipping quote, so it's nice to find out more info before they get here.

If I ditch anything it's yours.  I will let you know what I have when they are done.

Dale P.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Look for info on the Denford MicroMill 2000.  That's the outfit that made it.  They're in Yorkshire, England.  The company's been around a long time & still going.  There've been several other resellers of Denford machines here in the states but they're just re-labeled & set up for 110V power.  The Denford site I linked to has all the info & manuals.

[ibuildstuff4u]

Cool I found a ton of info.  Knowing that Denford made the machines really helps!  I found your old posts showing how you hacked the stepper drive board and will have to spend some time tonight reading it all over.

So I'm guessing the milling machine inside is a Sherline 5400?  If so it has 5" of travel in the Y axis.  I'm pretty sure my D&M was a Sherline 5000 which only had 3" of travel in the Y axis which is pretty much useless.  Every time I wanted to use it for something I ran out of travel and had to move back to the manual mill.  It's a shame it wasn't the Sherline 2000 as it has 7" of Y axis travel!

Thanks again for all the help!
Dale P.

[ibuildstuff4u]

Ok I found the travels.  Thankfully I have the micromill 2000 as the standard would only have the 3" Y axis travel.

Travel X axis, Standard and Micromill 2000: 229mm (9”).
Travel Y axis, Standard: 76mm (3”), Micromill 2000: 127mm (5 1/8”).
Travel Z axis, Standard and Micromill 2000: 165mm (6 1/2”).

[DICKEYBIRD]

Yeah, that old post is embarrassing.  How could one guy be so stoopid.   Fortunately, there were some truly kind & patient fellows that showed me the way.  My thanks to 'em all!

Wow, I didn't realize Denford used different types of Sherline mills with longer travels!  Mine is the little one & it's a pain.  I gotta give it some kudos though.  I used it today and it worked well.  Just a couple 30 degree 1/4" slots in aluminum for a little threading tool grinding jig but it came out beautiful.  The Mach3 "Angle Slot" wizard worked great once I figured out you have to click the "Ramp" button to get it to work.

Hopefully your bigger one will have more robust lead screw nuts (but I doubt it.)

[ibuildstuff4u]

What I need is a mill to make up these base plates, but i'm sure the sherline mill is too small to cut something this large.  The slot is 1/2" wide and 1/4" deep.  I would love to make the base plate out of machinable plastic, but I tried looking at different types of plastics and have no clue about what would work best as there are dozens of different types of plastics on the market. 

Dale P.

[DICKEYBIRD]

That's a lot of material to remove for a Sherline.  A one-off with a willingness to invest much patience & time maybe but production...no way.

Acetal/Delrin plastic machines beautifully but is more expensive than aluminum.  PVC plastic machines very nice and is not too expensive.  Here's a cheap piece you could try out: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pvc+rectangle+stock&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.Xpvc+sheet&_nkw=pvc+sheet&_sacat=0

[ibuildstuff4u]

Yeah I know the parts too big for the sherline, that's the problem.  I keep looking for a good machine that fits my budget but so far nothing works out.  What do you know about Dynamite 2400 mills?  There are two of them for sale in a government auction but to me they look to small too. 

I spent a whole night looking at machinable plastic and couldn't believe the prices!  I thought they would be cheaper than aluminum.  The PVC prices are good, but isn't PVC bad for your health?  I would worry about the chips and dust flying around in the house.

Dale P.

[DICKEYBIRD]

I don't think machining PVC causes any problems.  It's when you burn the stuff that it gets nasty & poisonous.  I think if you keep the chips cleaned up you'd be OK.

[ibuildstuff4u]

Ok I finally got the shipping worked out and might even have the machines by the weekend.  I plan to buy two cheap breakout boards and get them running on Mach.  The lathe is going to be put up for sale on Craig's list as soon as I have it running, but the question is how much should I ask?  I like E-bay because the price is determined by the market , but I don't want to mess with shipping on this item so Craig's list it is.  Any idea on what I should ask for it?  $500?  For a running CNC lathe? 

I will have $400 total stuck into both machines after buying them, having them shipped, and the cost of breakout boards so I would at least like to get $400 for the lathe so the mill is free in the end. 

Dale P.

[DICKEYBIRD]

That sounds about right to me Dale.  Depends on where you are and the level of activity in hobby CNC in the area.  Try $750 1st because any responses from C/L buyers will get you "negotiators".

[ibuildstuff4u]

Well it looks like I won't have a new toy after all.  Last night I was helping a guy who wanted to retrofit his D&M milling machine.  We were E-mailing back and forth and I saw that he lived in the same area that the machines were located and I told him about the deal I just got.  After some talking I ended up selling them to him for $300 which is still a steal for these machines, but in the end I made $150.00 and didn't have to do anything.  I also don't have to invest the money to ship them and the time to retrofit them and put them up for sale.  I could have made more money on the deal if I would have had them shipped, but this was much easier and will keep the wife happy!  The new owner lives 20 min from the seller and will be picking them up on Thursday and he promised to send me more pictures of them.

Dale P.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Funny how things work out sometimes!

Hey, you could quit your day job & pitch a new reality show to Discovery channel: "Flip that CNC machine."  Gotta be better than friggin' 'Swamp Freaks Du Jour' or whatever.

ps: Tell your friend to keep me in mind if he decides to ditch the old controllers.