Author Topic: Mill drill help (Read 20664 times)

Trebor · « **on:** August 11, 2013, 12:30:51 PM »

I was looking into getting parts for my lathe to enable me to convert for milling. Looking around I've seen a few second hand mill drills Warko was one in good condition, belt drive. Is there any drawbacks getting a drill milling machine as opposed to a milling machine ?

awemawson · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2013, 01:11:27 PM »

Beware of the round column ones. If you need to crank the head up when changing tools to give you more daylight you lose alignment which can be a real pain

John Rudd · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2013, 01:51:41 PM »

Trebor,

I have the Eagle 30 mill drill from Chester...V similar to the Warco offering...

Converted mine to three phase with a vfd..

As awemason pointed out being a round column does have the disadvantage..but....depends on what you are doing...If you are cutting parallel to the X axis then yes...other wise it doesnt matter if you're just fly cutting or summat similar...Not been a problem for me so far and I've had mine for a number of years...Nothing a DTI can sort anyway...
I certainly wouldnt swap it for some of the smaller gear head mills....

Besides....It all depends on your budget....Thats the bottom line....

Do you want an MT2 or MT3 or R8 on the quill.....ooooh nooooo..dont go there...

ParCan · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2013, 02:16:31 PM »

It all really depends what you want to do....

If you mainly want to drill holes but want the facility of a mill for occasional use then any of the lower cost milling machines out there will do more than you need.
Heed the Round Column advice.

I have all but ditched my Pillar Drill, mainly use my AMA16 mill now.

Trebor · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2013, 02:27:02 PM »

I see what you mean about the round support for the head

I nearly bid on a Axminster x2 tonight, went to just short of £400 but it had an intermittent stopping fault on it. So still looking !!

vtsteam · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2013, 03:01:54 PM »

I'm pretty happy with my Enco Mill Drill, and I have mostly used it for milling, not drilling.

There have been many mods of these machines published over the years to deal with the fact that the head swivels (which is intentional). That doesn't happen a lot of the time, only when you have to raise or lower it MORE than the 6" that the fine feed provides. Usually you don't while milling since end mills are generally about the same length. It's when switching between milling and drilling where you're adding a drill chuck plus drill that you might have to raise the head.

One interesting solution involves attaching a cheap laser level to the head and marking a vertical line opposite on the wall of the shop. Then you line up the laser dot with the line to bring the head into alignment after raising it. There are other solutions, like pinning the rack (normally it swivels with the head) and using a shim or gib, etc.

As said above it all depends on what you have to spend, and how much work you want to do to modify things to suit your own needs. I don't have any plans to get rid of mine, although if someone wanted to trade a Bridgeport for it, in equivalent condition, I wouldn't say no.

John Rudd · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2013, 03:21:43 PM »

Quote from: vtsteam on August 11, 2013, 03:01:54 PM

the head swivels when you have to raise or lower it MORE than the 6" that the fine feed provides. Usually you don't while milling since end mills are generally about the same length. It's when switching between milling and drilling where you're adding a drill chuck plus drill that you might have to raise the head.

I dont use a chuck on mine.....
Better security using a collet chuck and collets be it metric or imperial....and minimises the number of times I have to adjust the height.....

vtsteam · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2013, 05:32:29 PM »

There ya go -- another solution. They're really not that bad as mills go. I mean, on a budget.

Trebor · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2013, 07:15:44 AM »

Spotted this but it looks a bit large for my shed !!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171099763220?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_21wt_963

awemawson · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2013, 09:16:05 AM »

Wrong approach: What you mean it that you need a bigger shed

Trebor · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2013, 09:41:46 AM »

I would love one like this if it was ok! But I'd be getting divorced soon after I recon

Pete49 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 26, 2013, 02:15:48 AM »

Quote from: Trebor on August 12, 2013, 09:41:46 AM

I would love one like this if it was ok! But I'd be getting divorced soon after I recon

And the problem is

funny how a woman can't fathom the need for a big shed....mine insists on putting her car in mine. Little does she know the cars days are numbered MUHAHAHAHAHAHA
Pete

Trebor · « **Reply #12 on:** August 26, 2013, 02:27:00 AM »

Mine managed to get a tumble dryer and a freezer in mine when we moved here but another move coming soon and I am ready for it. She's getting a bigger kitchen

Jonny · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2013, 06:33:09 PM »

Love to see my mrs try and get something like that in, sacred ground especially when got other machines under cover outside.

Nowt wrong with round columns just have to make sure you can get all the tool changes in rarely a problem even when using chucks with up to 1/2" dia drills to mt3 collets with small short cutters.
Good accurate machines and very quiet when used to use mine, I keep it as a backup mill. Know what I would rather have of similar price with dovetailed column.

BillTodd · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2013, 08:04:16 PM »

I would probably not buy a round column mill now but the location problems are not hard to fix:

http://wktodd.webspace.virginmedia.com/drillmill/page4.html

http://wktodd.webspace.virginmedia.com/drillmill/index.html

Bill

markball2 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2013, 09:19:36 PM »

Quote from: awemawson on August 11, 2013, 01:11:27 PM

Beware of the round column ones. If you need to crank the head up when changing tools to give you more daylight you lose alignment which can be a real pain

Don't ignore the round column mills because of the alignment issues. I aligned mine a year ago, crank it up/down about every other week & alignment stays the same. It has more play in the table than "twisting" of the head.

I will admit I did make a minor modification, which keeps it aligned.

Pete. · « **Reply #16 on:** August 31, 2013, 09:44:14 PM »

Clever idea Mark but could you size those pictures down a bit please? They are more than double my screen res.

vtsteam · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2013, 10:03:13 PM »

(I've resized photos above)

Markball2, thanks for the mill drill mod photos -- that's helpful if I do something similar on mine. Coincidentally we both have Enco mill drills and Craftsman 12" lathes. I do see one difference in my mill -- the pulley cover opens on the opposite side -- it looks like you cut your cover away to clear the upper arm of your guide support post. Did you alter the cover support hinges to get it to open on that side or was it like that when you bought it?

markball2 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2013, 03:07:05 PM »

No. The cover doesn't hinge, it removes by unlatching some clasps & lifting off.

Yes I did have to notch the belt cover. I was running it without the cover, but the top/front of the cover is a nice place to put my hand when I'm using the mill. I kinda like my fingers right where they are

Arbalist · « **Reply #19 on:** November 16, 2013, 06:32:18 PM »

I agonised for over six months over which mill to get. My budget was £1000 and included the SX3 and several mill drills. In the end I got the Warco VMC knee mill at £500 over budget but so glad I did. It's very difficult trying to imagine how you're going to use a particular machine but in hindsight I'd used several different knee mills and now know that the other machines would have been frustrating to use.

PekkaNF · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2013, 05:06:10 AM »

I have a BEHEMONT knee mill (for HMS use). While it is pretty good when I need to shift some real metal, I'm thinking of buying a light mill/drill to complement the big one.

My reasoning:
* Winding up heavy knee to drill is not my favorite thing to do, specially when I'm using small drills or mills.
* I would love to get higher speeds. Knee mill has something like 16 - 600 rpm. Great for big mean cutter, but small scale is bit of a struggle.
* For drilling quill feed would be really nice. I want it long. Even 130 mm feels short.
* I would be fine with round column if it were heavy and stable. Like the machine least 300 kg.

Pekka

Arbalist · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2013, 05:23:24 AM »

The Warco VMC is only a "small" (440Kg) knee mill Pekka. It has a drill quill for quick and easy drilling and has speeds up to 2540 rpm.

This is the slightly modded head on mine.

NeoTech · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2013, 05:45:39 AM »

Pekka, i have exactly the same train of thought. Drilling in the knee mill is a hassle at best. So looking into either a dedicated pillar drill or a cheap quill feed milling machine for light milling. =)

awemawson · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2013, 07:12:45 AM »

Well years ago my drill press had to be sacrificed to generate enough room for my Bridgeport, and since then all my normal drilling is done on that with really no downside. I do have a pillar drill in the wood work shop, really just as otherwise it's a fag going from one to the other to drill a hole. And for really big stuff I have a rarely used radial arm drill in the welding shop. As I say I don't feel the loss of a conventional pillar drill, and could easily fit one in if I did.

Andrew

PekkaNF · « **Reply #24 on:** November 17, 2013, 12:25:51 PM »

Bridgeport has quill....mine does not. Makes a little difference doesn't it?

Pekka

Fergus OMore · « **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2013, 02:59:20 AM »

Quote from: Trebor on August 11, 2013, 12:30:51 PM

I was looking into getting parts for my lathe to enable me to convert for milling. Looking around I've seen a few second hand mill drills Warko was one in good condition, belt drive. Is there any drawbacks getting a drill milling machine as opposed to a milling machine ?

Of course, you already have a mill and a drill

Your proposed purchase is a lathe turned 90 degrees!

I get a heap of rather irate condemnation( amongst other things) but it is quite true. No one HAD a mill at one time. Some of us had a vertical slide. They were the rich ones

but we- the Great Unwashed had a couple of lumps of metal. One probably was peppered with all sorts of holes and taps and the other was posher with fabricated tee slots.

Lying around somewhere is three lumps of metal bolted together but it held things whilst they were being milled.

Whilst I'm on this theme, most of us didn't have micrometers but it wasn't a problem. The lathe usually had two.

Enough, enough and I'll get me coat!

Norman

PekkaNF · « **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2013, 04:15:00 AM »

Well...yesterday I had to tidy up a bit of a engine bracet taht had a encounter with my TIG enthustiac brother and his willgness to put a for engine to audi gearbox and cram it into lotus - I think. Anyhow it was too od shape to fix easily into my milling machine...I don't have tombstones or milling boxes big enough.

Lucily I had a piece of **** half a capstan lathe holding floor in it's place. I bit of filing to get one cast parting line straight eneough to allow stable clampping on correct angle.

Pekka

BenH · « **Reply #27 on:** November 18, 2013, 05:55:53 PM »

I've only just got my first mill, a rf25 Warco badged clone. I like the ideas on head alignment, very handy to know indeed!

Henning · « **Reply #28 on:** November 25, 2013, 07:10:01 AM »

Quote from: Arbalist on November 17, 2013, 05:23:24 AM

The Warco VMC is only a "small" (440Kg) knee mill Pekka. It has a drill quill for quick and easy drilling and has speeds up to 2540 rpm.

This is the slightly modded head on mine.

I'm sorry for a little off-topic, but i need to drill a hole in a billiard ball same as on your handle. Do you happen to have any tips for that? It needs to be pretty much spot on with regards to the band going around the ball same as you have.

vtsteam · « **Reply #29 on:** November 25, 2013, 09:27:58 AM »

Take a piece of wood like a 6" length of 2" by 6" (US) and put a hole in the center the same diameter as the ball. Then cut the board in half. Then bolt it back together with the ball inside, resting on a flat surface. That's your clamp/jig. If it's too loose, cut (or mill) a little off of the joining edge.

Of course you can do that in metal, too -- just cheaper to find wood that thickness if it's a one-off or few-off operation.

You could also get fancy and put a vee groove around the inside of the hole in your jig. That would clamp better.

Mill a flat on top of the ball the diameter of your through hole while it's in the holder. Mark, then drill.

awemawson · « **Reply #30 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:03:51 AM »

Can you not just simply stick something like Plasticine as a projecting lump to hold it with your fingers and offer it into a collet or a three jaw chuck, adjusting for alignment of the equatorial line. If you are worried about marking the ball with the jaws, curl a roll of thick paper inside the jaws.

Andrew

mklotz · « **Reply #31 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:10:51 AM »

Two pieces of plywood with a central hole smaller than the diameter of the sphere to be drilled, a couple of T-bolts and Bob's your uncle.

In this case the balls were wooden (job for a friend) but I've drilled plastic and metal using the same setup.

vtsteam · « **Reply #32 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:29:22 AM »

I like it!

Arbalist · « **Reply #33 on:** November 25, 2013, 01:16:46 PM »

Quote from: Henning on November 25, 2013, 07:10:01 AM

I'm sorry for a little off-topic, but i need to drill a hole in a billiard ball same as on your handle. Do you happen to have any tips for that? It needs to be pretty much spot on with regards to the band going around the ball same as you have.

Yes, I simply put them in the three jaw chuck in my Lathe and drilled them. It's nice crisp material so you don't need to tighten the chuck too hard.

Forgot to mention. I found the centre of the white area and marked it first, then ensured it lined up with a centre drill before proceeding.

Henning · « **Reply #34 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:21:04 PM »

Thanks a lot all of you!
Sometimes it's the simple things which comes to mind last...

Solved thanks to the fact that

PekkaNF · « **Reply #35 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:55:13 PM »

Mill/Drill is a bit of compromise always.

I like long quil feed something like 130 mm is minimum, therefore I rally like these two designs:

Linley/Eliot style:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/linley/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/elliott%20mini%20jig/index.html

HAUSER 2BA
http://www.lathes.co.uk/hauser/

Whilst it is possible to use lathe for boring and sometimes even desirable I find drilling machine or small mill very convenient. Sometimes part can be pretty assymetrical and therefore hard to mount well on the lathe. Mine lathe does not have t-slots or very long tail stock stroke. But lot of stuff can be done, has been done and will be done with less than ideal tools.

Pekka

Arbalist · « **Reply #36 on:** November 25, 2013, 05:38:22 PM »

Quote from: Henning on November 25, 2013, 04:21:04 PM

Thanks a lot all of you!
Sometimes it's the simple things which comes to mind last...

Solved thanks to the fact that

Wonderful thing the three jaw chuck!

vtsteam · « **Reply #37 on:** November 26, 2013, 04:32:23 PM »

Andrew was first off the mark!

awemawson · « **Reply #38 on:** November 26, 2013, 04:53:26 PM »

Thanks Steve for the acknowledgement

Andrew

Meldonmech · « **Reply #39 on:** November 27, 2013, 07:19:00 AM »

Hi
I would go along with other posts and avoid the round columns. A quill feed will extend your machining capacity. You will need at least a no 2 morse taper in the quill to enable the next range of drills over 12mm to be used. These can remove metal very quickly up to 25mm. When machining complex casting shapes, they can take some time to set up, having a quill feed is a great asset, since any holes to be drilled can be completed at same time before moving from the mill. Having said that do not dispose of you drilling machine, there are a number of instances where you will need to drill holes in other items while your mill is set up for other things.
Good Luck David

News:

Author Topic: Mill drill help (Read 20664 times)