Author Topic: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game  (Read 47072 times)

Offline Noitoen

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2013, 03:10:41 PM »
On the pwm controller, do you have a free-wheel diode across the motor? I've had experience where the motor would vibrate and the diode corrected it.

Offline mattinker

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2013, 03:12:24 PM »
Sorry about that, I got my wires crossed, I don't know why, I thought that I'd seen something about limit switches on your thread, I've been back over it and I can't see where I mis-led myself!

Regards, Matthew

Chris,

I thought you might be interested in these :-
http://uk.farnell.com/hamlin/59140-010/sensor-magnetic-spst/dp/1839038?Ntt=59140-010

They are magnetic switches, when approached by  a magnet, the switch closes, they are very easy to set up when compared with mechanical limit switches. They will switch a relay or light diodes. Given as 10watts at a maximum of 200 volts they are pretty flexible.

Regards, Matthew

Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2013, 04:45:49 PM »
 
Chris,

Have you considered the not insignificant weight of a table of pennies or 2p pieces? The frictional load will be quite a bit I suspect as it pushes forwards. The actual movement of the pusher is somewhat less than on your prototype.

Don't forget that when the pennies tip over the edge in the commercial machine, a portion of the 'haul' is split off by a divider so the punter only gets about 75% of what falls - the remainder re-circulates.

Andrew

Andrew, regarding the weight of the pennies, are you saying that the motor won't cope with it or I'm not sure? I do appreciate a table of pennies will be a significant weight.

Regarding the house winnings, all the commercial machines I have seen have the hidden trap at the edges. ALL the coins that fall off the front lip are won by the punter however there is a small slot, normally about 15mm x 70mm along either edge of the machine. Coins that fall into these slots of eaten by the machine. The hidden slot is normally covered by a small flap.



Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2013, 04:47:46 PM »
On the pwm controller, do you have a free-wheel diode across the motor? I've had experience where the motor would vibrate and the diode corrected it.

Not that I know of...  :zap:

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2013, 05:33:12 PM »
 :Doh:
Chris,

Usually an inductor that is being switched, I.e like your motor, would have a resistor and a capacitor (a snubber network to dampen the ringing) and a hi PIV diode across the motor......
taking the switching frequency to somewhere around 10Khz will eliminate the whine......If you go to Vellemans website and look up their pwm kit,look at the schematic especially around the output stage.That will explain a lot...(hopefully )
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2013, 05:33:29 PM »
I suspect you may run out of pushing power with the degree of movement you currently have. Of course this is just a guess, and if you do reduce the crank travel it will increase the available torque.

Are you going to have the two tier pushers allowing two levels of cliff edge that the commercial one have?
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2013, 05:39:25 PM »
:Doh:
Chris,

Usually an inductor that is being switched, I.e like your motor, would have a resistor and a capacitor (a snubber network to dampen the ringing) and a hi PIV diode across the motor......
taking the switching frequency to somewhere around 10Khz will eliminate the whine......If you go to Vellemans website and look up their pwm kit,look at the schematic especially around the output stage.That will explain a lot...(hopefully )

??

Offline cidrontmg

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2013, 06:04:50 PM »
British penny weighs 3.56 g, two pence coins weigh 7.12 g. Two pees are far more common, you can see 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p and pounds (and even banknotes), but the average should be a little below 7 g. The 25p and £5 coins are not actually in circulation, only commemoratives, and very large and heavy (28.28 g each). A thousand coins would be about 7 kg. Heavy, alright, but it's not a showstopper.
Olli
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2013, 08:46:05 PM »
:Doh:
Chris,

Usually an inductor that is being switched, I.e like your motor, would have a resistor and a capacitor (a snubber network to dampen the ringing) and a hi PIV diode across the motor......
taking the switching frequency to somewhere around 10Khz will eliminate the whine......If you go to Vellemans website and look up their pwm kit,look at the schematic especially around the output stage.That will explain a lot...(hopefully )

??

Chris, John is suggesting putting three electronic parts across the terminals of your present motor, if you use your present speed controller that whines. The intent would be to stop that whine.

The three components he is talking about are a capacitor, a resistor and a diode.

A high PIV diode just means a diode that has a high voltage rating, in other words it isn't going to burn out when it gets a momentary spike of voltage.  So if your motor is expected to see about 10 volts maximum, you would pick a diode that is about 4 times that (or more) in rating. A 50 volt capable diode would be fine, and so would a 100 volt capable diode.

Here in the States we have Radio Shack, where we can walk into the store and say to the clerk "Gimme a 50 volt diode!" and he would then consult with others there until someone would eventually lead you over to a display with drawers one of which said "DIodes and Rectifiers" and he would then depart. You would open the drawer and find a small section that said "SILICON DIODES 50 VOLT" or 50 PIV, and then buy one or ten if packaged that way.

Anyway, since you sent for the other controller, you may not have the hum problem -- I don't on the wiper motor I used, and I hope yours will be the same.

With regard to pushing the weight of pennies, were you thinking of a low friction material, like fomica (countertop material)?

I would think pennies would slide pretty easily on  that. Also, the way this works is by averaging just like a drop of water falling an inch into a bucket. You could say that the drop moves 10 kg of water. But it doesn't move it very far. The pennies work the same way. Each penny may move many others (but usually not all of them by a long shot) but the ones it moves move only a small portion of its movement. Pennies fall because they are usually on the edge and reguire only a very slight movement to topple off. Thus there is a mechanical advantage inherent in the whole process of moving coins. You would never move all of the coins, and the ones you move move less than one penny width.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Noitoen

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2013, 04:23:35 AM »
That "high PIV" diode is what is called "free-wheel" diode.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2013, 06:11:47 AM »
The commercial ones have a cascade of usually two pushers and shelves, and the coins build up to quite a thickness - up to two inches at times
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2013, 06:18:42 AM »
This is a great project Chris but have to admit am glossing over the electronics bits - straight over my head!
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Offline Noitoen

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2013, 06:35:02 AM »
The commercial ones have a cascade of usually two pushers and shelves, and the coins build up to quite a thickness - up to two inches at times

Don't forget the magnets to help them stay on the shelves :thumbup:. The copper like euro cent coins are "magnetic material" plated copper. The others, I never tested if they are attracted or not.

Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2013, 07:26:59 AM »
Hi guys, I'll just say again thanks for the interest!

Andrew - I'm really not expert on playing these machines but all the ones I played and the ones on youtube just have a single tier:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=coin%20pusher&oq=coin%20pusher&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3..0l4.656.2140.0.2269.11.4.0.7.7.0.98.317.4.4.0....0...1ac.1.23.youtube-reduced..0.11.392.pY7cXzUxUA8

That being said, I think I have seen what you mean, where they have multiple stages. This one is just going to have a single stage!!

The only thing I'm considering, is adding a coin spinner in the centre... A small motor with a propeller arm - if the coin hits when dropped, it'll fling it somewhere random.

NickG - the electronics is over my head as well! I'm getting there thanks to the folk on here.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2013, 08:23:38 AM »
The only way to know if it is too difficult for your motor is to try it out. The length of the arm is going to be fixed by the stroke you want. Check the current with an ammeter to make sure it seems reasonable.

One option if it is too much for the motor and required stroke and current requirement would be to use a couple of additional gears (I know you can make those!) or a toothed rubber belt and run the motor at a higher voltage.

One other factor in your favor, however, is that the start of the push, where friction/inertia is likely to be highest is also the point of maximum thrust and mechanical advantage by the crank arm.

My windshield wiper on my car has to drive two 18" blades plus connecting linkage, with cold grease in the linkage at temps below freezing, and wipe snow off of a five square foot area at the end of a 10 inch moment arm. So I think you have a good shot at success.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline cidrontmg

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2013, 07:29:01 PM »
Noitoen mentioned about magnetic materials, as some euro (or euro cent) coins are, and also the British coinage. Good point. 1p and 2p are copper-plated steel, 5p and 10p are the new coins made of nickel-plated steel. The rest (bigger denominations) are not magnetic (all others are varying percentages cupronickel, £1 is nickel-brass).
Depends on what you want for these magnetic materials. E.g. you might want a "clean and level field", like a formica or corian table tops, or stainless steel might be feasible (it slides easily). But a steel plate top might not be a well-received idea. Some Neodymium magnet "pills" would accumulate for enormous coin mounds...
That's a very good idea, your penny pusher!   :clap:
Olli
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Offline NickG

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2013, 11:46:52 AM »
Yeah i think the wiper motor will have enough torque, the worm and wheel
Will give quite a reduction would
Imagine in the order of 20:1? Imagine that with conventional gearing ... A 20 tooth going to a 400 tooth.
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2013, 02:31:39 PM »
This is a great project Chris but have to admit am glossing over the electronics bits - straight over my head!

You only have to shout out if you need help.... :zap:

There are plenty of knowledgeable folk on here, someone is bound to have an answer to a question ( err...just dont include me...I know nothing... :scratch:  :zap: )
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Offline srm_92000

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2013, 02:25:28 PM »
Hi,
When I started reading this thread I was doing a job on my little X0 mill that needed a lot of slots cutting in it, I also plan to make quite a few of these and was thinking how great just some basic power feed would be.. :proj:
So when I read this thread a big light went on. I could use a wiper motor !!!!!.
So not half an hour later a few ebay purchases were secured.
Yesterday these turned up.
The motor cost £6 inc postage as it didn't park the wipers any-more - no problem for me.
It's from a Corsa C, comes apart easy, is well built mechanically and shows hardly any signs of wear.
The controller is the £8 one from etang. It has well specified parts and works great with the motor on both the low and high speed connections.
I've included a schematic I drew for those interested, it includes all the protection required with no extra parts needed.
Base frequency measured on my scope is about 16.5 Khz.
I hope the manufacturer/seller doesn't mind me putting this in but there is no way I could build this for £8 anyhow so I can't see it can harm. (untested circuit - build at your own risk values etc may be wrong.)
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2013, 02:35:21 PM »
Thanks for the schematic -- that should be useful for mine if it needs repairs some day!

I'd love to see your final setup on the mill when you build it. That's what I bought mine for, as well.

Hope you saw this for additional info:

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,8810.0.html

also of interest:

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Modifications/Power_feed/power_feed.htm

There are other sites on the net and I think a series in HSM magazine some time back -- mill drill adventures?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Noitoen

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2013, 04:05:33 PM »
Hi,
When I started reading this thread I was doing a job on my little X0 mill that needed a lot of slots cutting in it, I also plan to make quite a few of these and was thinking how great just some basic power feed would be.. :proj:
So when I read this thread a big light went on. I could use a wiper motor !!!!!.
So not half an hour later a few ebay purchases were secured.
Yesterday these turned up.
The motor cost £6 inc postage as it didn't park the wipers any-more - no problem for me.
It's from a Corsa C, comes apart easy, is well built mechanically and shows hardly any signs of wear.
The controller is the £8 one from etang. It has well specified parts and works great with the motor on both the low and high speed connections.
I've included a schematic I drew for those interested, it includes all the protection required with no extra parts needed.
Base frequency measured on my scope is about 16.5 Khz.
I hope the manufacturer/seller doesn't mind me putting this in but there is no way I could build this for £8 anyhow so I can't see it can harm. (untested circuit - build at your own risk values etc may be wrong.)

That "A2" diode is the freewheel diode :thumbup:

Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2013, 04:11:59 PM »
Very pleased this thread has become useful for more than just building a fun arcade game.

My controller also arrived today and I managed to pick up an old atx supply for £5 from a PC repair place. Spent two hours hooking up my atx supply with no luck and pulling my hair out, only to realise the fuse had blown in the kettle lead I was given!  :doh:

Anyway- perfect, nice and quiet and runs lovely. I've also painted the deck and screwed down some Florescent red Perspex which my daughter likes the look of.

Lots more to do but progress is being made!





 

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2013, 05:27:44 PM »
Chris
 
That's interesting. Do you have it working from +5V to +12V for the 7V or from the 12V direct ??
 
Don't bother about the fuse. It happens ...
 
Couple of months ago I was about to rip my shop vaccy to bits, until I found out the switch on one side if a double 13A socket had packed up ...  :bang:
 
Ah well ...
 
 
Dave
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Offline shipto

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2013, 06:02:34 PM »
Interesting project are you going to put a fiver in there as a incentive for the kids to spend all their pocket money in it?
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2013, 02:07:36 AM »
Chris
 
That's interesting. Do you have it working from +5V to +12V for the 7V or from the 12V direct ??
 
 
Dave

12v line directly  Dave.


A fiver - I expect it will take many many times that to fill it so that it is playable!