buying a milling machine

[Fergus OMore]

Or, you can type into your browser "Stephen A. Morse" and find out when and where he was born, went to school, what he invented, what his numerous companies were called (American Standard, etc.), etc. and some other facts.
Mosey

But there is no record of Morse ever filing a Patent! I am ashamed to admit that I was teasing because there is an article 'Who was Mr Morse?'
Seemingly, his only recorded patent was for a twist drill but not one with a Morse Taper.

[John Stevenson]

Some people have better skills with search engines than others.

[Fergus OMore]

Not me!  It was the daughter of someone whom you know very well.

[mosey]

I think it is good to help someone choose a suitable (milling) machine. Honest, sincere, and truly helpful in intent. The rest is best left out.
I have benefited from the information here and on other forums, thanks.
Mosey   

[PekkaNF]

....
However, after a short visit to my workshop this afternoon I have decided reluctantly that the mill will have to wait, the two inches of water covering the floor has indicated the need for a new roof before autumn (fall for those across the pond) and being a 5M x10M timber structure it ain't gonna be cheap.

bUGGA!

Does the whole roof needs complete rebuild?

Some yars ago I had trouble eith one roof: About once every 5-6 years during the autumn storm water got in. I checkked the roof and found nothing alarming. On closer inspection I found out that the whole roof was missing seals under roof cap! Stong winds forsed the rain up and it went under the roof cap and dripped in. There was easy cure: About 30 cm strip of breathable material that had adhessive strips on both sides. it was sold in 5 m rolls. Took best part of the morning to pull all roofnails out of roof caps, wash the top, attach the seal strip and mount the roof caps. I used screws instead of nails. Next year I washed and paintted the roof. Hasn't been leakking since.

Pekka

[Bigbadbugga]

....
However, after a short visit to my workshop this afternoon I have decided reluctantly that the mill will have to wait, the two inches of water covering the floor has indicated the need for a new roof before autumn (fall for those across the pond) and being a 5M x10M timber structure it ain't gonna be cheap.

bUGGA!

Does the whole roof needs complete rebuild?

Some yars ago I had trouble eith one roof: About once every 5-6 years during the autumn storm water got in. I checkked the roof and found nothing alarming. On closer inspection I found out that the whole roof was missing seals under roof cap! Stong winds forsed the rain up and it went under the roof cap and dripped in. There was easy cure: About 30 cm strip of breathable material that had adhessive strips on both sides. it was sold in 5 m rolls. Took best part of the morning to pull all roofnails out of roof caps, wash the top, attach the seal strip and mount the roof caps. I used screws instead of nails. Next year I washed and paintted the roof. Hasn't been leakking since.

Pekka

the whole roof needs doing by the looks of it.

its currently a single slope 15degree roof made from 15mm OSB and covered with heavy tar felt. looks like the felt has become pourus and the water is just passing through the roof in several places, te OSB boards are delaminating and starting to bow.

I'm planning on replacing it with heavier beams and sheeting it with profiled metal sheets. ive had to cover the lathe and welders with waterproof tarps for now until i can get all the materials here. wish it would stop raining

[PekkaNF]

Does the whole roof needs complete rebuild?

the whole roof needs doing by the looks of it.

its currently a single slope 15degree roof made from 15mm OSB and covered with heavy tar felt. looks like the felt has become pourus and the water is just passing through the roof in several places, te OSB boards are delaminating and starting to bow.

I'm planning on replacing it with heavier beams and sheeting it with profiled metal sheets. ive had to cover the lathe and welders with waterproof tarps for now until i can get all the materials here. wish it would stop raining

Damn-it. Looks like it needs to be redone it. We use here some tar felt too, but really needs one layer on underneath of it. If the OBS is giving up then it really might be a good idea to rethink the whole roof. I don't know your local regulations and climate, but here it is most of the time compulsory to put layer moisture barrier of and trusses to separate these two layers about 50 mm.

Not sure how this is called there (underlayment, moisture barrier, under cladding?), but something like this:
http://www.roofaquaguard.com/installation/RoofAquaGuard-UDL.htm

Hope you'll get it sorted with least damage to your plans. But it will be nicer to have the building first sorted out and then contemplate in peace which mill to get.

Pekka

[mosey]

Or, you can type into your browser "Stephen A. Morse" and find out when and where he was born, went to school, what he invented, what his numerous companies were called (American Standard, etc.), etc. and some other facts.
Mosey

But there is no record of Morse ever filing a Patent! I am ashamed to admit that I was teasing because there is an article 'Who was Mr Morse?'
Seemingly, his only recorded patent was for a twist drill but not one with a Morse Taper.

Just thought you'd like to know that Morse is listed as having 26 patents. If you'd like, I can send you the list.
Mosey

[Jonny]

so a set like this would be a good buy,

http://www.chestermachinetools.com/er-collet-chuck-sets-4523-p.asp

Might be a bit late but would strongly advise not to go for them, they slip like no tomorrow or cutter drops no matter how much you tighten that stupid ER style collet up. An improvement is from Gloster tooling where they sell a bearing type nut but still suffer with excessive slow change overs.
Scrapped many a job wasting 10's of hours at work, same with the expensive Wabeco ER ones on the cnc - bang £30 cutter gone.

Considering most of the Chinese tools are made in same place rebadged, I can honestly say the two full sets of Arc finger MT collets grip in both my mills, the one or two Chester I have do not. Easy to remove one spanner like R8 and no loss of height.

[NickG]

Agree with Jonny, in that it is a more rigid set up with the finger collets and no loss of height as i mentioned before, but then you are pulling the collet hard into
the spindle taper and are likely need some force to release it. I haven't had an ER collet slip yet except when using it to Turn / thread small parts in the lathe. Although you need 2 spanners to loosen it, unscrewing the nut will then release the collet completely. ER collets also have a range of 1mm which means you can hold metric or imperial although  best to hold the actual size as imperial will usually be just into the next size up. You can also use the ER ones in Stephensons block collet fixtures - or you could if unlike me you ordered the correct size :-/

[mosey]

I wonder why the set you reference above is in 2 mm increments, as compared to most others. That may be the problem. I have 2 different inexpensive import series, 1/16" increments, and have never had a slip! They tighten with barely a turn of the wrench. Of course you know that collets come in varying levels of precision/quality/cost. Maybe that has some bearing on their success. ER spring collets are very common in professional shops because they work quickly and well in my humble opinion.
Mosey

[NickG]

Mine were from China on ebay, cost about £20! Good enough for my needs.

[Fergus OMore]

Just thought you'd like to know that Morse is listed as having 26 patents. If you'd like, I can send you the list.
Mosey
[/quote]

Thank you but it's all ended up as non starter.
Of course, it has meant that model engineering has lost one very valuable contributor. 
The contributor may be very ill but he continued to give the benefit of  experience despite considerable set backs.

So  have a happy time discussing the merits of leaky roofs.

[vtsteam]

I see no discussion of the merits of leaky roofs, rather a mention of why the OP, a new member, recently welcomed here presently cannot afford a milling machine, and a supportive reply or two.

Not sure who is referred to as being lost to model engineering.

And the single troll style reply in this thread was supported by only one poster as "honest", if that type of thing did have a lasting discouraging effect on anyone.

Responsibility and accuracy are as much a part of discussing engineering as they are in engineering itself.

[tom osselton]

so a set like this would be a good buy,

http://www.chestermachinetools.com/er-collet-chuck-sets-4523-p.asp

Might be a bit late but would strongly advise not to go for them, they slip like no tomorrow or cutter drops no matter how much you tighten that stupid ER style collet up. An improvement is from Gloster tooling where they sell a bearing type nut but still suffer with excessive slow change overs.
Scrapped many a job wasting 10's of hours at work, same with the expensive Wabeco ER ones on the cnc - bang £30 cutter gone.

Considering most of the Chinese tools are made in same place rebadged, I can honestly say the two full sets of Arc finger MT collets grip in both my mills, the one or two Chester I have do not. Easy to remove one spanner like R8 and no loss of height.

My son was taking a good bite out of some aluminum with a r8 collet that I tightened good, or that is what I thought  but I watched the cutter getting forced (screwed out) as he climb milled.

[John Stevenson]

ER's are now virtually the defacto in the UK and Europe for collet holding systems.

Company just up the road from me does Aerospace work for Airbus, mainly big wing spars. They now have four 5 axis DMG milling machines at nearly 1/2 a million pounds per pop plus all the other machines, bed mill with 3 metres travel for one.

They run virtually all ER32's with a few 20's and 16's where space is tight.

Do you think for one minute that they would adapt a system that's flawed with cutters coming loose when they have the funds to buy virtually any system out there. Remember they wreck a job and it's into the tens of thousands, not like us ruining a £4 bit of Scrapbinium ™

[tekfab]

not like us ruining a £4 bit of Scrapbinium ™

  £4 ! ! ! your a bit reckless with your money, i try not to spend more than 3p3farthings on a bit of scrapbinium  ;-)

   Mike

[Jonny]

Mugs there are better more cost effective and productive methods, well thought out. Hate to think of the hourly rate and waste in downtime.

First four that came up no ER in sight.

These do F1 and aerospace.

When you ask for a tool holding system you are automatically offered some form of ER for the home user, people being people anything else has to be searched and or asked for. Clarkson much better at least they don't drop but hav eto use threaded cutters.

[doubleboost]

Some very nice machines there
But not quite home workshop stuff
John

[Brass_Machine]

I see no discussion of the merits of leaky roofs, rather a mention of why the OP, a new member, recently welcomed here presently cannot afford a milling machine, and a supportive reply or two.

Not sure who is referred to as being lost to model engineering.

And the single troll style reply in this thread was supported by only one poster as "honest", if that type of thing did have a lasting discouraging effect on anyone.

Responsibility and accuracy are as much a part of discussing engineering as they are in engineering itself.

I second this post.

I am afraid some of this has sprawled way off what the OP was asking.

I am going to ask to leave this be. Let's see how we can help bigbadbugga and not prove who is right about Morse and his patents.

Eric

[tekfab]

 Let's see how we can help bigbadbugga

Well i've got some spare nails  ?

Mike

[doubleboost]

I see no discussion of the merits of leaky roofs, rather a mention of why the OP, a new member, recently welcomed here presently cannot afford a milling machine, and a supportive reply or two.

Not sure who is referred to as being lost to model engineering.

And the single troll style reply in this thread was supported by only one poster as "honest", if that type of thing did have a lasting discouraging effect on anyone.

Responsibility and accuracy are as much a part of discussing engineering as they are in engineering itself.

I second this post.

I am afraid some of this has sprawled way off what the OP was asking.

I am going to ask to leave this be. Let's see how we can help bigbadbugga and not prove who is right about Morse and his patents.

Eric

Well done Eric
Lets keep it nice
John

[Bigbadbugga]

Just to update you guys..

Roof materials are being delivered tomorrow, cost just shy of £1000, but considering the workshop is 16' x 26' it's not so bad. I've gone for profile metal sheets on 8x2 beams.

Now that's paid for I can start saving for the mill again, and thanks to all of you who have helped me to decide. I'm pretty sure I'll be going with this one......

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/R8_Spindle.html

If all goes well I should be able to order it in time for Santa to deliver this year.

[tekfab]

Now that's paid for I can start saving for the mill again, and thanks to all of you who have helped me to decide. I'm pretty sure I'll be going with this one......

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/R8_Spindle.html

If all goes well I should be able to order it in time for Santa to deliver this year.

Personally i'd see if it's available with a morse taper quill.           

[Bigbadbugga]