E10 to E15 Wall.

[ieezitin]

Lads..

Here in the States our gas (petrol) has a federally mandated rule that ethanol 10% per volume has to be blended per gallon of gasoline, they call it E10. This was derived from the Corn Belt states in the Mid-west to drive up demand for corn which worked and now all major car manufactures have in the last 12 years manufactured there vehicles to comply with this doctrine, the engines work fine on this ratio mixture for fuel and pollution emissions have remarkably been reduced.

In the states our average Mile Per Gallon ratio has increased to 36MPG, I do not know if this is a result of blending the gas it’s just a fact.

The EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) in the last week is now trying to mandate that is should be as high as 15%, despite ignoring calls from the public and manufacture’s cry’s saying it is not viable for the engines to function on this blend due to a mechanical wall of the motors.

Here is my two part question…..

Does Europe and Australasia have the same rule for blended gasoline using Ethanol? If so what is the percentage.

It’s a fact the the UK average has a value of 56MPG, Why?

I know that Europe has American made cars and shared technologies, why such a variance?

Anthony.

[DavidA]

Anthony,

Our gallons are 20% bigger than yours,  4.54 Litres.

Dave.

[andyf]

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but ethanol isn't added to UK petrol/gas as far as I'm aware. I wish the US would stop doing it; due to recent bad harvests around the world, the price of grain is rising and with it the price of bread etc!

Andy

[ieezitin]

Andy

You are 100% correct.

the price for corn products in Mexico, central, and south America has risen by 15%. North America is responsible for 45% of the world market for corn. This is why i am asking the question.

Here in the States all farmland is (eyed) Meaning you can only farm by insured or un-insured crops, insured means the government will pay a given price of the life of the crop, weather its bad or good at time to market, un-insured means you are at will of the market at any given time if there is a natural disaster no relief will be available.

Corn was for the last 15 years insured heavy... the farmers dont care where the crop goes as long as they cover there bets, the result has been that corn has been directed to fuel production hence the countries that depend on corn products from the USA have to pay higher prices.

Anthony.

[RodW]

Does Europe and Australasia have the same rule for blended gasoline using Ethanol? If so what is the percentage.

Yes we have E10 here in Aus. It was driven by our state government who mandate it in their fleet but a lot of E10 pumps have been removed by the service stations so it must not have taken off.

Do I use it? no, I drive a diesel ... I don't put it in my wife's car either which is compatible with E10. It is a lower octane fuel and while it costs less, the costs work out similar as fuel economy is worse.

So at the pump we have a lineup of E10, 92 octane, 95 octane  and even 98 octane fuels in some servos.

From what I understand, there is some fairly heavy subsidisation of your farm sector (and in Europe) and none in ours. we used to haev a vibrant sugar industry in our state but most of that has gone due to globalisation, and the inability to compete with subsidised sugar sources from European sugar beet growers and under developed countries so not much benefit to the Aussie farmer.

[SwarfnStuff]

Hi, Like RodW in Queensland here in Victoria (Down the bottom of OZ) we have E10 but I notice that it has been withdrawn from local petrol stations - I was going to say Servos (Service stations) but in reality the only 'Service' they provide is to take your $. As far as I can tell not enough people were using it although mosat if not all new cars are compatible.
Cheers,
Swarfnstuff

[DavidA]

Andy,

.. I wish the US would stop doing it; due to recent bad harvests around the world, the price of grain is rising and with it the price of bread etc!..

Not wanting to turn the thread into a political one,  but I agree with you on this point.  I feel the same about growing oil seed for fuel.

Grain and oil seed should be grown for food,  not fuel.

End of rant.

Dave.

(who runs a 1.5 Litre Diesel Saxo on 50% biofuel home made from waste veg oil.)

[andyf]

Anthony,

I'm not sure where you got your "UK average = 56mpg" from (converting to the Queen Anne gallons you use, it would equate to 45mpg) . If it comes from manufacturer's figures, I think most motorists over here would agree that, even under ideal conditions with none of the traffic snarl-ups which beset us, it is somewhat optimistic. The makers advertise figures for urban consumption, and also for consumption at 56mph. Perhaps the latter has got mixed up with mpg.

Andy

[vtsteam]

I agree that raising grains for fuel is not the best use for farmland. Food is.

I have done grant funded research into conversions of waste materials from the dairy industry into fuel and worked on developing  burners for using green wood chips from tree waste and brush for heat production in Vermont.

Large scale agriculture of fuel crops on farm land is in fact energy intensive. Vast monoculture practices require fertilizers and pesticides on a large scale. The pesticides and herbicides produce immunities in the pests themselves and gradually become ineffective. Costs for these agents continue to rise as large scale chemical industries maximize profit.

There is a question in my mind whether the value of fuel produced, minus the subsidies really justifies all of the costs of converting food land to fuel land, in terms of financial, envionmental, and agricultural management and certainly in terms of world relations. I am a great fan of bio-fuels, but don't believe burning corn products or rapeseed oil is a proper long term approach to fuel problems.

I also don't want to take part in political debates. I don't think this is necessarily political in itself. I think it's just of practical interest, and don't really have much more to say about it. My work with building things and experimenting has always leaned toward self sufficiency and alternative energy production, that's a big interest for me.