Potty Lads and Dads Engine

[sbwhart]

I have an old works friend who's just getting started in Model Engineering along with his 11 year old son who's his showing a great interest in engines with a developing tallent for 3D CAD. Chatting to them got me thinking about an engine that could be built in a relative short time with limited equipment and I came up with the simple mill engine design that I showed the drawings her http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,8128.0.html (be warned it has mistakes) that a Dad or Grandad could make together

Hence Lads and Dads.

The design is based on this engine that I saw at the Northern Mill Engine Association at Bolton at their Christmas steam up.
http://www.nmes.org/



I've used standard bar stock size to eliminate milling along with a piston valve, the fly wheel can be a standard 4" Stuart wheel or a fabricated one, I will also use lower cost material avoiding as must has posible copper based alloys.

Any way thats enough of that lets get on with the job,

You will need a small lathe an 1/2 decent drill with a good drill vice and some way of accuratly marking out like this



Just a cheep dig caliper with the legs cut back to form a set of odd legs

First Up the steam chest from 5/8 square ally. Cut a chunk off the bar face off to length in a four jaw and mark out the position for the piston valve.



The back into the four jaw and using a wobble bar set the centre pop running true



Deep centre drill then to avoid the use of expensive reamers drill through with a 5.9mm or a 7/32 drill this will cut over size and make the hole near to dam it 6mm, if the bar you're going to make the piston velve out of is a bit tight just lap it down for a nice slide fit.



Then accuratly mark out the position for the inlet ports don't centre pop them, into the drill vice and line up with a sticky pin this is just a pin held onto the chuck with platercene and nudged until it runs true. Clamp the vice to the drill table



The start with a small centre drill then follow up with a 3mm drill, don't unclamp the vice from the table just losen the jaws and slide the job along to line up the second hole again with the sticky pin a drill that one, do the same with the exhaust holes.



Mark out for the position of central inlet fead, and the 2mm dia clamp down holes, you don't need the sticky pins to line these holes up as their positions are not as critical just use the centre drill.



Thats it job done, just a few more holes to drill in it off the inlet and rod gland fixtures when they are made.



The deburing tool is what my late Dad made I can tell he made it as it's got his personality writen all over it.

Stew

[Dan The Man]

  This is a good idea Stew!! i'm going to do it with my Dad wink wink

[John Rudd]

Nice one Stew    Errr....'Av'nt I seen this one before


Dan the Man,
Welcome,how about an intro from yourself? Let us know a bit more about you

[vtsteam]

Great thread! I really appreciate the minimum tool expense approach. Looking forward to this one!

[sbwhart]

Thanks for your interest Dan/John and vtsteam

A couple more bits finished off this morning up bright and early before six and a good 3 1/2 hrs in the shed, while it was quete (heaven  )

Whilst i'd got the four jaw in tha lathe I quicly made the square base bit this was just a simpler vertion of the steam chest, so no pics.

Then got started on the end covers, I made both covers at the same time but you may choose to make them one at a time.

First job chunk of 35mm ally bar in the lathe face off and rough out the OD then just mark the centre with a small centre drill, black the end up, and using as et of deviders mark the PCD for the four clamping down bolts, then to mark the holes position on the PCD using one of those digi protractor thing stick it onto one of the jaws (they are magnetic) zero it up and scibe a line across the centre, rotate the chuck so that it reads 90 and scribe another line across thats it you've got the hole positions marked out, no fancy kit required. If you havn't got a digi thing you can do the same trick with a spirit level.



Then don't remove it from the chuck take the chuck off the lathe and clamp it to the drill table locate on the position centre drill then drill to required depth I drilled it deep enough to make both.



Put the chuck back onto the lathe, and turn the 16mm register for the cylinder, I did this with a part off tool then zeroed the dial and cut a groove down to the zero in the position for the second cover.



Part the First cover off.




Then turn the features for the piston rod gland drill and tap M6 and part off



Job Done





Stew

[Stilldrillin]

A matching pair of covers. Made with the minimum of machining/ setting. 

Nicely done Stew! 

David D

[saw]

I have told you before, your an artist 

[Pete49]

mmmm this looks familiar. I'll pull up a chair and watch.
Pete

[sbwhart]

Cheers Guys

On with the cylinder, I had a bit of 31.5 mm diameter ally in my stash a little undersize, but if I didn't clean up the OD I recon it will do the job, so faced a chuck off to lenth, then drilled and bored it out 16mm ID



The using the four jaw with the cylinder longwise face off one side for valve chest.



Turn it round 90 check that its square and face another side off for the base





Over onto the drill and drill the ports



The spotting off the valve chest drill and tap M2



Then from the end face drill down 3mm into the inlet port.



The use the end covers to spot through for drilling and tapping M3 for the end cover fixings.



Thats the cylinder done



Time for a quick assembly of parts to see how its looking



MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  not bad

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

"MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  not bad".

That's a bit of an understatement young man....... 

Blummin well done Stew! 

David D

[sbwhart]

Cheers Dave

The boss has been working today standing in for a sick teacher, so had the day all to myself in the shed, almost done an 8 hrs shift so when i've done this i'm going to have a nap.

Made the stuffing box for the valve rod

Drilling out the top hat bit



Spot drilling through into the valve body for to fix the valve guide.



Shaping up thr valve guide



Turing up the valve from a bit of 6mm stainless.



These are the valve bits



Also turned up the piston and piston rod guid this is the only pic I took.



And the bits lose assembled



Stew

[krv3000]

hi work is well dun keep it up i will have to get myself one of them angel gage

[sbwhart]

Cheers krv3000

this mornings job was to make the con rod. Cut a length off 1/4*5/8 mild steel bar allowing a little extra on the length.

Mark it out then drill the hole for the bearing, to get it flat place the bar on the table put the vice over the top and clamp up on the bar, that it nice and level with the top of the vice.



Drill 8mm



Then centre drill each end for turning between centres



Its a bit of a awkward shape for fitting a drive dog to so,

With the four jay self centering chuck turn a 6o deg point on a bit of bar.



Set this back in the chuck then with a life centre in the tail stop, the chuck jaws act as the drive dog.



Rough the material out rough shape and face the end to length leaving a pip.



Slew the compund round 3 deg then with a radius tool finish off



Flip it round and turn the other end at the 3 deg setting.

A bit of work with a filing button and drill and tap for fixing the brasses and its

Job Done



Stew

[vtsteam]

Excellent work! Great to be able to follow along.   

[doubleboost]

Hi
Stew
Great work very well shown
John

[John Rudd]

Looking good so far Stew......

Are you planning on doing the same sort of thing for a boiler? 

[sbwhart]

Thanks chaps

Looking good so far Stew......

Are you planning on doing the same sort of thing for a boiler? 

No John I have no plans for fitting it to a boiler, I doubt my choice of materials would make it suitable for steam running.

Onwards and Upwards with the bearings housings.

These are made from 5/16 thick bar not 1/4 as in the drawing i thought 1/4 would look a little flimsy.

Fist job measure the height of the piston rod to make the bearing centre height the same, then cut a couple of chuncks of the bar roughly square the ends up with a file and mark them out then as for the con rod centre drill the ends for between centre turning, I cut some of the surplus material off by hacksaw first then on to the lathe for facing off to length and turning to shape.



For the next bit I desided to fit my vice stop to my new drilling vice this was just a mater of drilling and tapping a M6 hole into the side of the vice.





Then onto the drill for drilling the 12m hole for the bearing I made sure that the base of the bearing was up against the fixed jaw and that the vice was firmly bolted down and the stop set.

Drill the first housing then without unbolting the vice drill the second again with its base up against the fixed jaw this way the centre height will be the same for both housings.



Then drill the bolting down holes 2.5mm dia again taking advantage of the vice stop, I wish I'd added this before I started.



The give them a good seeing to with a file and filing button the shape the top



Turn up the bearing.



Fit them in place with some loctite

and its another job done



Stew

[sbwhart]

Bit more done:- the Cross head

Made from a bit of oblong section bar, start by marking the centre on a end face accuratly centre pop the position.

The using a wobble bar centre it up using a four jaw independant chuck.



Turn a step up centre drill and tap M4 for the piston rod.



Keeping it on the bar helps you to securly clamp it, drill a couple of hole to form the slot.



Flip it on its side and drill for the end pin.



Then cut it off the bar hacksaw the slot and file to fit

And its another one done.



Stew

[sbwhart]

A few more parts done,

First up the bearing brasses:- drill the clamping holes in some 1/4" brass square bar



Then bolt them too the con rod mark the centre line and drill and ream through 6mm dia



Then make the end plat sorry no pics for that bit.

Then make the little end gudgion pin



The the slide bars to get the M4 tap square I light held the tap in the chuck jaws just enough to keep them square but not enough to stop it turning in the chuck then with the wrench clamped on the parallel bit of the tap start the tap nice and square, and remove the job from the vice to finish it off.



Thes are the bits



And how they assemble



Stew

[saw]

Beautiful work 

[Stilldrillin]

Crackin' components, nicely produced and shown. 

Well done Stew! 

David D

[doubleboost]

I think you have done this before 
Very nice work 
Well shown as well
John

[sbwhart]

Thanks for the support Lads 

Yes John I think you may be right, the engine is certainly comming together quickly the end is in site 

I ordered a chunk of 1/4"* 3" ally plate from ebay, for the bed plate I first carfully marked out the position for the cylinder assembly i had to drill and tap 2 more m3 hole into the cylinder base to fix it I intended to screw to go right through the bed plate through the cylinder base into the cylinder but my M3 countersunk cap screws were too short for this hence the extra holes.

Drilled and countersink the bed plate.



Then made the crodd head slide bars from some 1/4" squ mild steel bar, I put the drill vice stop to good use to get them all drilled the same with the stop set and the vice clamped to the table it it just a matter of setting up on the first then driiling it then dito for the rest having first made shure they were all the same length.



Then the spacers were made I just truned a length up enough to make three centrree drilled then drilled through 2.5 than carfully parted them all off to the same length. No pics

Then it was the turn for the supporting pillars it important that these are made to match the assembly so a took my time and measured the centre height of the piston and did a bit of a calculation to get their heght (29.4mm). I made them from some brass hex bar i had in my stash, first I parted four off 31mm long faced and tapped one end M3 and did the same to the other end but M2.5. These pillars need to be all the same exact length, so I fitted my back stop into my lathe head stock.

This is the beast its just a No 3 morse taper with an M8 hole one end for the stops, and a M10 in the other for a draw bar.



And it in the lathe



And with the chuck mounted.



It was just a mater then of setting the sadle facing off at the same setting, to make them all the same allowing .5 for final finished, put on the final .5 flip them round and face off job done.

I then turned a parallel to just leav a short length of hex.



I then carfully marked the position to driil the holes for the pillars in the bed plate ensuring there was enogh room to tkae up the travel of the cross head etc, and then drill and chamfered the bed plate to take m3 countersunk cap screws to hold them

To ensure the valve rod support lined up with the rod a turned a point on a bit of 3mm silver steel mounted it in the valve chest and gave the support a light biff to mark the position for the hole.




Time for a few hows it looking shots.





Not bad just the crank eccentric and the fly wheel to make.

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

Looking pretty good Stew!     

In fact, quite professional...... 

David D

[sbwhart]

Cheers Dave

The Boss was has been away all day visiting an old school friend, so I was in pigs heaven, all day in the shop.

First bit the crank shaft, turn up and thread the end and cut off



Next bits the crank webs, made from 1/2"*1/4" mild steel bar cut off a couple of bits allowing a bit for cleaning up, then mark out



Then drill both 8mm



Then stick a bit of 8mm bar through both bits and then drill 6mm hole this way the hole centres will be exactly the same for both bits.



Then turn up a 8mm mandrell



Mount both bits to the mandrel tighten up tight abd skim down the ends to form a nice rad



Turn the mandrell down to 6mm mount the bits back onto it and turn the other end down.

Give both parts a tidy up and a polish



Then with high strength loctite assemble the crank shaft and cronk pin.



Just to make sure drill and pin the webs in place.



For the pins use nails cut off just a little longer than required and rivet in place and clean up, and cut out the middle bit of the crank shaft.



Next bit the eccentric to avoid the use of a milling machine this is fabricated in two part plus the eccentric sheath.

Luckily I had a bit of brass tube that was near to dam it the corect size all I had to do was part a ring off, and drill and tap M3 for the shaft.



The eccentric first part was a top hat outer part.



Then the inner part this as the off set for the throw.

Turn up dia for assembly to the top hat bit



Try the fit



Flip it round in the chuck face to thickness and put in a small centre.

Then mark out the throw.



Set it up with a wobble bar



Drill and ream



Turn up the boss



And stick the bits together with high strength loctite



And a try for fit of todays bits.



Stew

[vtsteam]

What a great looking little engine this is going to be! I love the horizontal mill engines. 

[sbwhart]

My offering this morning are just a few of the fiddly bits that need doing.

Drill and tapped the eccentric for a M3 grub screw



As I drew the engine up I relised that there was no provision for setting the valve event, I scratched my head on this one for some time then I had a look through the pic I took of the origonal engine to see how they did it.



So decided it would be best to try and copy this arangement.

This require some 3mm dia cross holes drilled. The parts are made from 6mm dia stainless first off I drill and parted off a thick washer with a 3mm hole, I then used this to locate for the cross holes.





It was just a mater then of turning up the parts.



This is how the orangement looks on the model, that cap screw gets in the way so I'm going to replace it with a grub screw.



I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it hase enough movement to activate the valve.

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

That should give a good range of adjustment Stew!   

You can always mill a couple of flats, to slim the clamp block for extra clearance....... 

David D

[Dan The Man]

HOW QUICK!!!!!  I have made 6 easy bits in the time you have almost finished it! Top Man Stew

[sbwhart]

Cheers Dan

You and your Dad are going to have to get a move on 

I'm waiting on some steel tube to make the fly wheel so decided to get on and finish the bed plate off, I carfully marked the position for the crank bearing and drill them out 2.7mm clearance on M2.5. The bit of ally I made the bed plate from was 3" wide I wanted 2" but that was all I could get so had to cut it down, using a hack saw and a guide plate, so that things didn't wander off.



Then filed the cut off level, noting too fussy just as long as it doesn't offend the eye.



The drill 4 corner holes and filed some fancy rads on the corners.



Assembled the engine back to the bed plate, and fixed a carrier to the crank shaft to try and turn it over, turned over ok, but the valve rod thing fouled, did a bit of adjustment, phew ther's enough clearnace for it travel its full movement, I roughly set the valve and spent 1/2" turning it over by hand it nows turn over nice and free.

Can't wait for that steel to arrive.

Decided to make the base, these sort of engine often stood on stone plyths, so got hold of some chip board, cut two bits off to size and rounded the edge, then cut and filed some nicks along the edge to simulate the stone courses.

This is what it looks like.



I'll give it some licks of paint I'm hoping that it will keep its rough texture to look like stone. I aplied some wood glu and clamp them together, I'll see what they are like tomorrow.

Stew

[sbwhart]

Still waiting on some material to finish this engine off, in the mean time visited our local hobby craft shop and they were having a bit of a clearance and picked this stuff up to have a try at staining the wood chip



Its water based wood stain and some felt tip pens, after a bit of a play I found that the tips were next to usless dried out that is why they were cheep, so instead I had some white emulsion paint that I added some of the wood stain to and added that with a thin paint brush to show up the cement bonding, I aint no Rembrant when it comes too paint. I then sealed it off with the PVA watered down a bit.

I don't think it looks too bad.



Now where is that post man

Stew

[vtsteam]

Where do you get bricks that small? What type of mortar did you use? Did you use a tiny string level? And how do you get a running bond to come out even on the end like that?

Excellent job! 

ps. a little muriatic acid on that mortar will clean it up nicely.

[sbwhart]

Cheers 

Well the posti dropped off the material for the fly wheel. 

So first job was to cut off a 1" slice from the tube its 100 od with a 4mm wall.



Then face to length 3/4"



Skim up the OD



Then clock up the OD in independent four jaw chuck because the tube is relatively thin and it distorts some what with the internal stresses it a bit like trying to clock up a bit of jelly, just get it as good as you can as long as it doesn't offend the eye.

And skim up the bore.



And turn a step for the hub to but up against.

Next up the hub this is made from a chuck of 1/4 ms plate 100mm square. first mark up the centre and draw a circle 100mm dia and trim off the corners with a hack saw.



The drill and 1/2" hole in the middle



And mount it on an 1/2" mandrell and turn up the OD for a nice push fit into the rim.



On the original Bolton museum engine the fly wheel doesn't have spokes just 4 holes I don't know if this is the original fly wheel or one the Bolton lads have knocked up. So drill 4*22mm dia hole in it.



Turn up the inner hub a nice tight fit it the outer bit.



And stick the lot together with high strength Loctite.



Its doing its curing thing now until tomorrow when I will finish it off, I have a few domestic duties to do this afternoon. 

Stew
 

[Stilldrillin]

Looking very good from here Stew! 

Hope your "homework" goes as well....... 

David D

[Bangkok Mick]

Looking great, learning a lot from this thread.

Cheers Mick

[vtsteam]

Love the flywheel method!

[sbwhart]

Thanks Chaps

This mornings task to complete the flywheel, just griped it in the three jaw to see how it was running, and it looked good so drilled and reamed 6mm for the crank shaft.



Then spent the next couple of hours striping down and adding studs and sealer where required and chasing out tight spots then I wen and lost one of the main bearing searched every ware, brushed the floor, I gone though the cussing stage into despair, so went and asked the Boss to help me do a CSI search of the shed, "what are we looking for" "one of those", I said pointing to the remaining bearing, " so there should be three she said", "No", I said a little tetchy, " there's two" "well she said there's two there pointing"

Can you spot the missing bearing



 

I can play a mean pin ball

 

So with that mystery solved a roughly set the timing, and with not much hope gave it some air.

 

Stew

[doubleboost]

Very nice
Makes good sounds
John

[Stilldrillin]

That runs very well Stew! 

Relative simplicity, and a good finished size....... 

Blummin well done! 

David D

[sbwhart]

Thanks all for your replies and support Chaps its very kind of you.

I must say its been a fun build.

I'll take her along to the Harrogate show this coming Saturday so if you a re there you can eye ball her.

Spent sum time fine tuning her, tightening and loosening nuts to see what happens as a result I've packed one of the bearing up a little, they weren't quite level, and I've also packed the cylinder up a little, I recon it wasn't quite lining up with the slide bars.

I'm going to have another fiddled with her today (the engine that is ) I still think there are few improvements to make to her running.

Then its time for a bit bling, acorn nuts on the top of the slide bars, I think I'll increase the size of the hold down bolts on the bed plate to M4 and add some bolt down pads so it looks a bit more like a casting, then its a strip down and a bit of paint:- apple green fro the engine and red for the fly wheel and I'm going to had some wooden cladding to the cylinder, and finally a nice hardwood base, and that should be just about job Done.

Ho and a nearly forgot, bring the drawing up to date and write it up for the Model Engineer.

Stew

[vtsteam]

Looks and sounds great! I make it out to be running 545 RPM in the video. 

[sbwhart]

Thanks vtsteam

I've been running it know for about 4 hrs chased a few tight spots out of it and reset the valves a few time so that it will run forward and reverse its getting nicely bedded, had the tacho on it and at full pressure 50psi it licks along at 1500rpm and it will throttle down to about 15psi at 400 rpm.

Stew

[garym]

Thanks for this excellent thread Stew. I'm building a Stuart S50 as my second project and threads like this are very educational. I'd like to have seen it at Harrogate but I'm going on Friday. 

Gary

[GordonL]

Looks good. I do not understand why the special valve rod arrangement. Wouldn't the threads on the two clevises as shown on the original design have allowed valve adjustment?

[sbwhart]

Looks good. I do not understand why the special valve rod arrangement. Wouldn't the threads on the two clevises as shown on the original design have allowed valve adjustment?

Hi Gordon

Yes there would have been adjustment on the clevises, that was the plan, but the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea, it would have been limited and awkward to use, and not as easy to make as what I ended up with.

I also found this info on the engine that I saw at Bolton

extract from NMES http://www.nmes.org/

When a steam engine with large cylinders became worn, so that the piston no longer fitted properly, it was common to re-bore the cylinders, making them a fraction of an inch larger. However, since the casting often weighed many tons and removal to a workshop would have taken too long and been too expensive, the work was frequently carried out on site. This small engine would have been used to provide power to the re-boring equipment which was clamped to the cylinder being re-machined.

The slide valve is driven by an eccentric on the crankshaft that can easily be moved to another position to alter the timing so that the engine can run in either direction.
End


So apparently this valve arrangement had practical uses.

Thanks for you interest

Stew

[GordonL]

Thanks Stew. That makes sense. Actually by putting a collar/stop/mark  on either extreme it would actually be easy to reverse the engine and set it back to the other direction.

Actually I started to build this engine as kind of a fill in project and was just at the point of making the valve actuator rods. I think that I will probably use your method.

[saw]

Nice work, thanks for showing us 

[sbwhart]

Thanks for your replies chaps.

I've been busy revising the drawings, if any one wants a copy of the revised drawing just drop me a PM with your email address and I'll send them.

Stew

[ozzie46]

Great job on the engine as always.

PM sent

Ron

[Joules]

What a great little build series.  Another PM on its way...   

[Joules]

Thanks Stew.... 

[sbwhart]

Well got it all painted and polished up hers a few glam shots







Stew

[vtsteam]

Any father-son (or daughter) team would be proud to show off something like that! 

[Rob.Wilson]

Nicely done Stew  dam fine  looking engine 



Rob

[Stilldrillin]

That looks really good Stew 

Thanks for letting me examine it. It's larger than I thought it was....... 

David D

[dsquire]

Stew

As usual you have completed another fine engine up to your usual high standards. Anyone would be proud to display an engine of that quality. Thanks for sharing it with us all. As usual we will look forward to your next masterpiece. 

Cheera 

Don

1867

[saw]

It's an extremely well build  engine you have there Stew, and so fast.     

[doubleboost]

Very nice Stew
You must have a big shelf full by now 
John

[krv3000]

hi very well dun 

[billmac]

Just a quick reminder that you can come and see the original engine that this model is based on Sunday 26 May and Monday 27 May at the Bolton Steam Museum. This museum is run by the Northern Mill Engine Society (NMES). We run on steam a number of times each year and this holiday weekend is one of those times. Unfortunately, this particular engine won't be running on steam because we are just adding (shoehorning in!) another new engine adjacent to it which has meant that we needed to disconnect it from the steam main and exhaust for a while. For details of the museum see this:

http://www.nmes.org/

Entrance is free. i hope to see you there.

[sbwhart]

This week end I may nip round you never know I might see something else that will inspire a build 

Any way her is the video

Stew


 just fixed link ,hope you dont mined Stew ,

[modeldozer]

Very nicely done, thank yoy for shering with us. 

Abraham

[billmac]

This week end I may nip round you never know I might see something else that will inspire a build 

I think our Musgrave Non Dead Centre (NDC) engine would make a really interesting model. This engine is the last of its kind and is very interesting to watch running. A write up on the build of something like this would be especially interesting.

If you do come and want a chat, I am the one in the grey overalls with not much hair.

[sbwhart]

This week end I may nip round you never know I might see something else that will inspire a build 

I think our Musgrave Non Dead Centre (NDC) engine would make a really interesting model. This engine is the last of its kind and is very interesting to watch running. A write up on the build of something like this would be especially interesting.

If you do come and want a chat, I am the one in the grey overalls with not much hair.

I got a migraine watching that bugger running, it certainly an interesting engine, I've sort of got a simplified Kenion engine drawn up, that I plan to build sometime.

In the mean time I've a bit of shed maintenance work to do then I've got that Simplex Loco to complete.

I'll speak to the boss to see if we've anything on tomorrow I'll certainly look you up for a chat Bill if we go, I know Neil so I'll ask if you are around.

Cheers

Stew
 

[haoxiaoquan]

sbwhart：

  Hi!
Your engine is really beautiful

In such a simple equipment to production

Your technology first-class!

  郝晓泉！