Author Topic: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)  (Read 17305 times)

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« on: April 06, 2013, 08:29:48 AM »
Hi,
I have had 6 Dickson style holders for many years but didn't want to buy any more at $80 each over here, so I decided to make my own. I did consider buying a wedge style from the US, but I would loose money on this one as it cost me $500 8 years ago.

I made these up last year but am just getting around to posting them now because of the house move. I am still yet to decide what finish is going on them.

My mate gave me a piece of plate (column base of a large shed) a few years back and I have kept it for this purpose. It was 550 x 350 x 32mm thick and the tool holders are 31.75 deep so close enough to the thickness of the factory ones.
I had to cut it up but it wouldn't fit in the bandsaw so I put 2 cuts in it outside with the 9inch grinder.
After that it was about 4-5 hours sitting by the saw cutting it into little blocks.The bandsaw was clean before I started and the carbon blade did a good job.

This is the Dickson style tool post, it has 2 V's and a slot where it is pulled back onto the V's via a cam action in the tool post, very simple really.





















Once they where all cut up I faced the sides and the ends with the horizontal spindle and a carbide end mill.




The slot was then roughed out.



One side of the V roughed out



The other side of the V roughed out.



The pile roughed out to get rid of most of the waist metal.You can see a red and blue one there, I colored these because they came off the saw a little thin so I marked them like this as they where not the same as the others. It was only something small like 0.25-0.5mm but it makes a difference in setting them up in a jig.



This is the jig I used for the roughing angle for the V's.




Here I am roughing the slot wider with a hoging end mill, it was easier to widen the slot with the vertical spindle than the horizontal spindle.



The finish left from the roughing end mill.



Finishing the slot



Cutting the slot with a key seat cutter. It was a bit blunt so I sharpened it using the lathe, it then did the whole job.




You can see how the swarf filled the vice, so I cut up some ice cream container to help out.



The little key cutter moved so metal



Facing them all



Knocking the corners off with a 45 degree end mill









Finishing the V's















machining a flat on top of the V's



Drilling all the holes with a temporary shield



This is the tap set up I used, the coolant flushed out the chips so things went quicker. I had to tap 230 M8 holes.



I cut up the 25mm bar for the adjusters, drilled and taped them, then mad up this arbour to thread them on for all there operations.



Making the adjusters









I stole the wheels off the push knurler and made a clamp knurler









Knurling the adjusters






My temporary coolant set up run off the mill.









All knurled



Most of the shaving that where caught after knurling.



I set up these tools in 2 tool holders to do all the operations in one go



Machined the outside diameter



Taking of the sharp corner



Taking off the bottom edge.



All done, I made 60 odd for spares as I never want to make these again,LOL



All of them heated up and dunked in oil



What a repetitious job



Finished





The one stuff up when I was roughing them, oh well it will get used for something like an indicator holder.


I picked up 1500 odd grub screws from the UK for just over $100, a lot cheap than buying them here for $50 odd dollar a box of 100.There is more than in the picture they are just the M8 ones need for the tool holders.
I have different lengths so I will be able to custom fit the grub screws to different size tooling I put in them
 holders and will be changing my factory holders over to grub screws as well. The square he bolts where just to expensive and I would rather they didn't stick up above the holder.



Wow that was a lot of work.
Dave

Rob.Wilson

  • Guest
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 09:24:19 AM »
 :bugeye: Bloody hell Dave , looks like you will never be short of a holder now  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Rob

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 09:29:34 AM »
Thats what I am hoping. I left 10 blank so I can make specialty holders like a dial indicator. knurl etc.

Dave

Offline Stilldrillin

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4972
  • Country: gb
  • Staveley, Derbyshire. England.
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 11:47:16 AM »
Loved seeing those pics, and description Dave. It's been a long time since I did any repetition milling......

Very nicely done, and shown. Thanks!  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline micktoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
  • Country: gb
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 12:21:11 PM »
 Well done Dave  :bow: :bow: :bow: , a dam fine job of making the holders and posting the process too.........you must have been sick as a chip doing them but well worth it as now you must have enought holders for one for every possible type of tool and also saved yourself a small fourtune too  :clap:

 The 'production line' photos look very impressive  :drool:

  Cheers Mick

Offline doubleboost

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1619
  • Country: gb
  • Newcastle Upon Tyne
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 12:29:50 PM »
Nice one Dave
I only made 5 and mine are much simpler than yours
Good pictures & description :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
John

Offline krv3000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
  • Country: gb
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 04:24:06 PM »
hi and well dun and nice pics  :thumbup:

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 04:57:21 PM »
Great job, and great photos, too!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline NeoTech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Country: se
    • Roughedge Hobbyworks
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2013, 05:45:04 PM »
Nice.. if i could do this to my multifix i would be in heaven. =)  *considering swapping out my tool holder* ;)
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 11:39:21 PM »
Thanks guys, I was glad when it was over. I had a few bins of chips.

Neo Tech, there is a thread somewhere about making those, would you like me to chase it up for you?

Dave

Offline Mayhem

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Country: au
  • purveyor of mischief
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 11:42:43 PM »
Top job Dave.

Offline NeoTech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Country: se
    • Roughedge Hobbyworks
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 02:14:47 AM »
NeoTech, there is a thread somewhere about making those, would you like me to chase it up for you?

Oh there is on this board? would be great.. they are expensive as #¤%& great toolholder though..  =)
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 03:26:27 AM »
Thanks Mahem

Neo,
Her you go found it, there is a Chines seller selling them for a lot less, if you search the other forums for them through google you will find the link.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=92173

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/wireedming-spline-multifix-multiquick-tool-posts-anyone-try-260655/index2.html

Just a tip, if searching for something with google, click on images at the top and it will give you heaps of photo hits instead of having to read a lot of posts to see if there is a picture.
https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=multifix+tool+holders&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44770516,d.aGc&biw=1024&bih=571&wrapid=tlif136531878862510&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=rRxhUar_JsyqrAfjoICYDQ


Found some posts on the Chinese ones
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/47260-Multifix-Toolholder-Clone-Review

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/46753-Multifix-now-half-price

Hope that helps a bit
Dave

Offline Jonny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2013, 03:22:03 PM »
Hats off to you Sir, even i dont think i could use 48 holders.
Any idea how long it took?

Went through same process 3 yrs ago had genuine Dickson but needed plenty of holders and didnt like the price s/h.
Lathe bought £850 s/h, sold Dickson T2 on it £100 last year, bought 4 chinese 250 series tool post sets not as good £54 just for the holders, already had one from previous Harrison, gave one away leaving three spare. Got 17 tool holders, need more.

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2013, 07:36:26 PM »
Well you got me going! Though not even remotely as ambitious. I cut up blocks for 7 very simple tool holders with the band saw today. Thinking maybe I'll do a step a day on them and gradually get them done that way.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2013, 10:03:38 PM »
It's good to get a bit of feed back with guys knowing how much work went into making them. If I showed my wife, son mates etc they would look blank at these blocks of steel like yeah what, LOL

Here are some detailed shots of how the tool post works for those that are not familiar with it. I think it simpler than the wedge style and also think the tool holders are easier to make than the dovetail ones.
It would not be hard to make up a tool post in the home work shop.

Sorry about the crappy pictures they are off my phone.













Dave

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2013, 10:12:17 PM »
Well you got me going! Though not even remotely as ambitious. I cut up blocks for 7 very simple tool holders with the band saw today. Thinking maybe I'll do a step a day on them and gradually get them done that way.

I hope you post pictures, as you know we all love pictures.

Just a tip, machine all the outside faces using a vice stop or similar so they all come out the same. Rough out the critical surfaces close to finished in a jig/vice stop, then do the finishing operation all in one go in the same setup. Doing it this way your finish tool is not going to wear from first one to last one so it takes the guess work out of it and you know they will fit without measuring.
I have a DRO fitted to both the lathe and the mill so it was a lot easier with them.

With mine I was just the vice cleaner/ block loader once the first block was set up.
Even though it took more time doing 46, it would not have been that much quicker doing 20.

Dave

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2013, 10:41:41 PM »
I hope you post pictures, as you know we all love pictures.

Okay -- they're pretty simplistic compared to the amazing project you did, Davo, but will do.
Hey also, thanks for the jig and stop tips. I don't have DROs on the mill (a Mill/Drill), though I have some digital scales I have been meaning to mount. One of those times where a project suggests doing others to prepare for it!

On the other hand just occurred to me that I could do the sizing and facing (and boring) on the lathe. I enjoy faceplate work. Maybe I'll do it that way for interest sake.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2013, 11:15:31 PM »
No harm in doing it on the lathe and it will give a better surface finish than an end mill. Use a nice honed HSS bit and they will come out really nice.

Just make sure you face the face plate and then mark it's position if you have a D type or a bolt on spindle, if it's threaded no need to bother.

Since you don't have a DRO, set up the critical surfaces so you can lock that axis and just change out the tool holders. This will make the job go a lot quicker.

Dave

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2013, 03:33:58 AM »
Brings back memories seeing your pictures of the Dickson block disassembled. Some years ago I picked up two T2 sized blocks from a tool dealer very cheaply as the upper trunion that the tool locking eccentric passes though had been broken off. I suspect that they were both ex school ones that had been run into the chuck. I turned up a suitable copper bar to form the hole, and welded up round it and ground back to size. I don't recall what rods I used but a bit more than mild steel. They came out superbly and twenty years later I'm still using one on my Colchester Master 2500 as a rear tool post. The other one went with my Colchester Student when I traded it in for the Master. (Thinking about it it was the same tool dealer !!)

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2013, 06:50:56 AM »
Davo, that is just amazing... How long did it take from start to end? I know exactly what you mean when you say people look at stuff and not realise the work that goes into things. Keep up the great work :headbang:


Ps.
 Are you bare foot in your workshop with all that swarf around?!? Picture number 6 in from the top...is that not your foot??

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 07:01:40 AM »
I couldn't tell you how long it took as I work a few hours here and there over 3 weeks, but not every day. Pretty boring really as all I was doing was sitting on a stool cleaning the vice with a paint brush and loading the blocks as I have power feeds on all 3 axis.

Yeah thats my foot, I wear thongs in the shed all summer except for welding as it's so hot in an uninsulated tin shed, the chips are pretty well contained and I clean up regularly. In the winter when it's cold I wear boots all the time.

awemawson
Sound like they served you well and still are. I think they are a great tool post, it's just the price of holders that kills it for a lot of people.

Dave

Offline Mayhem

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Country: au
  • purveyor of mischief
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2013, 07:12:20 AM »
Those are good quality Chinese safety boots!

Offline Davo J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Country: au
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2013, 07:54:06 AM »
Those are good quality Chinese safety boots!

LOL, yeah they are imported especially for us Aussies.
I don't know about anyone else but I go down the shed dressed comfortably to suit the weather.

Here is an old picture, same work boots different day putting up the jib crane.

 


Dave

Offline Henning

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: no
  • All the kit and no clue!
Re: Making quick change tool post holders (picture heavy)
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2013, 08:08:40 AM »
Wow Dave :bugeye:

That's a serious operation you had going there! NICE work! Thanks for sharing  :thumbup:
Henning

Just because i can't, doesn't mean i shouldn't?
Tool- lover, with a collection to show for it!