Is this Mad enough !

[micktoon]

  Hi All , I have got involved in a project trying to sort out a Drag racing kart for a mate of mine..............its a Honda 900cc fireblade bike engine with turbo fitted running on carbs with electric gear shifter. Its been standing for three years so needs a good sort out and some TLC.

   Here are a couple of links to it running at Santa Pod drag strip.

       

       

  This is how it looks now, bit of a sad state from sitting around for so long, the engine ran for a short while, chucked it and wont start again, its new petrol. The wiring is not the best and been done by someone else so I have been stripping the harness back to see wht goes where as the first step.









Its had a genral clean off , just so its ok to work on and see what is what really at this stage. A few bits have been taken off to gain access to the wiring, its already looking better but still a long way to go yet.







 So I have managed to find some wiring instructions for the ingition and gear shirter on the net and am just tracing back wiring and will re do half of it as I am not happy with the way its been done and go from there .................. should sound nice with that exhaust 

 Cheers Mick.

[andyf]

Yes - Mad as a box of frogs! Looks a great project.

Though it seems to have a number plate on the back, and lights on the front, I doubt you'll be able to insure it for road use 

Andy

[vtsteam]

Eeeeeeyup.....

 It's mad enough.

 

[Brass_Machine]

 

Yup. She is almost mad enough.  Love it and want to see more.

Eric

[Pete.]

If it's staying on carbs I'd be tempted to junk the ignition and put it back to stock if you're having trouble with the running. I like the header design and compactness of the turbo install. What does it use for an oil return from the turbo? Looks too low for gravity-return.

Thinking on it - have you changed the plugs? Turbos eat them up especially as they will have been using race fuel. Be careful when you try to remove them that the last two threads on the plug haven't rusted badly they might rip the threads out of the head.

[micktoon]

Hi Lads , thanks for the comments,
  Andy its NOT for road use lol, its just vents at the front not lights and that plate is just the last owners initials, it seems its sole purpose in life is to do quarter mile as fast as possible really............... so not that useful maybe.
  Eric and vtsteam , glad it gets a thumps up on the mad enough for Madmodders lol.
  Pete , all the stock ignition is gone so it will have to go as is , it has Dyna 400-1 ignition which looks good kit , dual setting rev limiter etc, the turbo oil return has VDO in line scavenge pump. Funny you should mention the plugs as I was told yesterday that would be a likely cause so off to get some now, I am glad to report they have been in and out fine so no thread problems anyway. I am also putting in  fresh petrol as I did not see it get changed myself so need to know its good stuff in there and take nothing for granted.

 I will report of my progress
  Cheers Mick.

[woodguy]

first I'd ever heard of drag racing carts - Are these things bracket racers or are there classes for them?  Quick little thing innit?

[Stilldrillin]

Love it! 

The last time I saw anything like that, Circa 1964. Was a hill climb go-cart, with a tuned Triumph Bonneville engine...... With around 50bhp, that was considered mad enough, then. 

Have you noticed the YouTube Lad's responses, to a gurl doing the driving? 

Well done Lass! 

David D

[vtsteam]

Wood I be wrong in imagining a skull shaped shifter knob?

[DMIOM]

Mick,

If you're having trouble with the electric gear shifter, have you considered dispensing with the transmission? - just use the engines to run the pumps as shown here by a true MadModder (you may just recognise him!)

Dave

[Deko]

Very nice  Santa Pod stuff !!! been there, done that. This was my effort 40 years ago. That is a 30 odd year old me about to show off in the local carnival.

Cheers Dek.

[krv3000]

ooo thats nice its a shame jhon dus not have his any more you cud of had a race

[micktoon]

  Nothing to report as yet , no joy on getting it started and one of them days yesterday ....everything going wrong so walked away from it before I snapped lol, I am going to have to re do most of the wiring as lots of crimped on connectors that are not done right so can not be trusted.

 Hi Bob , aye shame John has hung up his karting boots eh lol............. would be canny then both going through they Tyne tunnel 

 Dek , they are some class photos , that looks some machine you had 

 DMIOM , .you are right I am sure I have seen that chap somewhere before lol

 vtsteam , no way the skull is on the fireplace 

 David D , Umm never thought of the hill climbs .......then again I dont fancy hitting a tree at over about 2mph in that machine either lol, I bet the Triumph Bonneville sounded nice , this is meant to be about 200BHP

 Wood guy , I think it ran in a none street legal class ...........I dont know if thats just a way of letting things that dont fit into any class have a go ?


  Cheers Mick

[Davo J]

What a wild ride, hope it doesn't give you to much headache.

With the crimp connectors, don't crimp them solder them.
My son is an auto elec and anyone found using crimp connectors will not be there long as they will fail down the track.
Either take off the plastic bit from the crimp connector and use them as solder connectors or buy solder connectors and use acid core solder, it takes to the wire (even dirty) and the connectors like a duck to water.

Before he become an auto elec I only used resin cored solder, what a difference acid core makes.
If a car comes in with crimp connectors they know strait up it's a home job, but they have found them in new caravans that have burn because of them.

Look forward to your updates.

Dave

[Pete.]

Funny you should say that Davo J because I asked the very question on a forum populated by drag racers and the unanimous reply was 'crimp - never solder'.

[RussellT]

It depends on the crimping - all car connectors are crimped as standard - and it's just as cheap to buy "proper" crimp on connectors and only about £6 for a "proper" tool.

I agree  that the plastic covered crimp on connectors are poor.  I dislike them almost as much as scotchloks.

Russell

[micktoon]

  Not much to report even though there have been countless frustrating hours spent on the kart this week, if anyone has seen the film Christine ( where an old car keeps rebuilding itself after getting damaged by the bad guys ) well this kart is the complete oposite of that lol, it does not want to be fixed and fights me every step of the way , nothing has gone right or fitted etc all week ..............is it just me this happens to ?.
  Anyway , the wiring is finally done , new leads to starter , new engine earth , new solenoid , new gear shifter switch , new fuel pump and oil pump switches , new clutch switch and more or less every wire and connector changed and I am happy to report its started time after time today 

 Davo , I will have to try that acid core solder , sounds just the job  . I think the debate about crimp or solder probably depends on the connectors if they are good quality and where they are located ...... I think its horses for courses and each has its merits up to a point.
  The trouble here is, I am just helping a mate out getting it going and working with what is there without trying to get too involved or make it into a bigger job but overall its just not the way I would have done things in the first place, which never makes a job any easier 

 Cheers Mick

[Brass_Machine]

Sucks to hear of the difficulties. 

I meant to ask you before... before you started working on this, did you sit in the seat and make vrooming noises? I know I would have!!

Eric

[DMIOM]

Mick,

I've never made anything that's been used at Santa Pod but my professional training was electrical/electronics and I've made electrical & electronic kit that's survived IoM TT, Spa, rallies, offshore powerboats etc.

With the greatest of respect to other contributors, I think there might have been a mix-up and I would most strongly urge you to avoid acid-cored (plumber's) solder - what you want is proper rosin-cored solder (which is almost invariably what any flux-cored solder sold for electrical use is).  If you do manage to get hold of some acid-cored solder, it will almost invariably say on it "not for electrical or electronics use".

The issue with flux-cored solder is that almost invariably some spent flux will remain after the joint has been soldered, especially when securing something like a multi-stranded cable inside a connector's ferrule.  Even spent rosin-cored is mildy corrosive - but orders of magnitude less than acid-cored. The problem with using acid-cored solder for this type of work is that its really an "acid pencil fuse". It may well give you a good join for long enough to get the kart out of your workshop - but the quality of the connection will be deteriorating from the day you did the job. 

You can get rosin-flux-removing solvents for cleaning PCBs, and "no clean" rosin-flux-cored solders - but they're not really necessary for this type of electrical work.

Dave

[dsquire]

Mick,

I've never made anything that's been used at Santa Pod but my professional training was electrical/electronics and I've made electrical & electronic kit that's survived IoM TT, Spa, rallies, offshore powerboats etc.

With the greatest of respect to other contributors, I think there might have been a mix-up and I would most strongly urge you to avoid acid-cored (plumber's) solder - what you want is proper rosin-cored solder (which is almost invariably what any flux-cored solder sold for electrical use is).  If you do manage to get hold of some acid-cored solder, it will almost invariably say on it "not for electrical or electronics use".

The issue with flux-cored solder is that almost invariably some spent flux will remain after the joint has been soldered, especially when securing something like a multi-stranded cable inside a connector's ferrule.  Even spent rosin-cored is mildy corrosive - but orders of magnitude less than acid-cored. The problem with using acid-cored solder for this type of work is that its really an "acid pencil fuse". It may well give you a good join for long enough to get the kart of your workshop - but the quality of the connection will be deteriorating from the day you did the job. 

You can get rosin-flux-removing solvents for cleaning PCBs, and "no clean" rosin-flux-cored solders - but they're not really necessary for this type of electrical work.

Dave

Dave

Many thanks for clearing up the acid/rosin core solder question. I have seen what acid core solder can do over the years and it isn't pretty. Thanks

Cheers 

Don

[vtsteam]

I was avoiding saying anything about acid core solder, because I, too don't know what small scale racing practice is for connections. Maybe there is something at work there I don't know.

But I've always been warned not to use acid core for anything electronic. It stays in twisted wire and braid and eats up thin connections in electrical work and corrodes circuit boards. And I imagine it would be worse where moisture, vibration dirt and heat are present.

I would think aircraft electrical practice would be the best place to look for racing car work. I don't think you'll find acid core solder used there.

[RussellT]

I too wondered about acid flux - you're not supposed to use it on gas pipes as you can't clean it off the inside and it eventually makes them leak - but I didn't know about electronics so I've learnt something.

Russell

[micktoon]

 Hi Lads, thanks for the info on the acic core solder , I think it may have been used on some switches as they seemed very corroded for something that has never been in the wet ! , I have just used the normal rosin type electrical stuff anyway , the reason the acid type caught my interest was thinking back to repairing wiring to say the numberplate lights on an old car where the copper has blackened and is a nightmare to solder but an even bigger nightmare to replace the wiring ,  I had thought it might be ideal for that sort of get it through one more MOT test type situation.
  An update on the kart is ............... its running and starts first time every time , all wiring safe and working but really it needs stripped and rebuilt from scratch as its too fast to  be assuming things are done right and been tightened correctly etc, all I have done it got it to a stage where it works and looks clean and tidy without going to the point of stripping it right down and re doing it all. My friend who has sort of inherited the kart has no real interest in drag racing it ( plus is 6 feet 4 inches tall and weighs about 20 stones  , so not the perfect build for setting world record quarter mile times  ) So its getting sold as a project for someone that has the need for speed 

  I will post a few more photos of it cleaned up and see if anyone can notice the difference tomorrow.
  Cheers Mick

[krv3000]

well you got ther in the end well a bit on soft soldering and flux types and the dreded black wiring you can get  proper fluxe for wiring wich will not corode the wiring thruw the wick efect for clening the old wiriing get hold of a scrach brush its a fiber glass pen that is used on all sorts of things bear the wier then go over the wier with it to cleen it has any one wocht american hot rod if you look closely i have seen them yosing plumers flux on ther wiring  that will rot your wier right off 

[R.G.Y.]

Back to the modding. Photos of my B.R.IS.C.A F11 stock car 1983 - 1992. Strange name as the only stock item is the driver. Photo 1 a bad day p2 not all day are bad. I had hair then.