Author Topic: Bench vice jaws (Read 25202 times)

Rob.Wilson · « **on:** February 10, 2013, 12:59:17 PM »

Afternoon lads .

Well I found a wee project to mess about with , something that has bugged me for the passed 20 years

, the jaws in my #5 Record bench vice .

There fooking crap for holding finished parts , great for destroying the look of a freshly made part .

So you end up fitting soft jaws ,

AND there just as crap ,they fall off if you fart in there direction ,you cant grip thin work on the very edges .

The rap around type are just as bad , and the magnetic ones ,well all they do is attract the fillings

, and the real problem with soft jaws is there soft , fillings get embedded in the soft material and scratch the job

So my plan is make a set of hardened and ground jaws .

Work so far today .

A set with vertical vee's

A set with HZ step and vee's of different sizes

A plane faced set with pin holes in top face

and because undoing screws every time in need to change the jaws is too much like hard work , I am making them quick change .

Rob

Edit : above still need hardening

philf · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:59:13 PM »

Evening Rob.

Another masterful RW production!

Phil.

millwright · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:27:13 PM »

Love the Quick change idea Rob simple really, Why the chrome plating though lol.
John

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:41:48 PM »

Now...... That's cute, Rob!

Blummin good thinking, all the way through.

Well done!

David D

doubleboost · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:01:21 PM »

Nice very nice

You are not joking about the jaw protectors falling off at the slightest chance

John

PekkaNF · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:22:32 PM »

Quote from: RobWilson on February 10, 2013, 12:59:17 PM

Afternoon lads .
.....
and because undoing screws every time in need to change the jaws is too much like hard work , I am making them quick change .
.....
Rob

They just drop in place over tophat or you have a cunning plan to tighten them?

Pekka

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:24:50 PM »

Thanks Lads

Spot on Pekka

they will just drop in place over top hat screws ,,,,,,,,,,, nice and simple

Rob

John Stevenson · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:41:02 PM »

I have just surface ground the grip hatch pattern off mine, now hard and smooth and just give a quick clean up lick every now and again.

doubleboost · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:43:03 PM »

I just wish i could machine something that the vice would mark

John

Bluechip · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:47:01 PM »

Sticky Dots

Shove 'em in the recesses where the c/s screws are.

They fail after a couple of months so just stuff some more in.

Fartproof .. or I assume they are. I was brought up to be polite and I go out of the shop when I need to yield a rasper.

Geordies may well have different practices ...

Dave BC

PeterE · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:56:27 PM »

Really nice idea Rob

Looking at the set, something tells me that it might be useful to put a thread in some of the holes in the "Swiss cheese jaws". Something like 6 to 8 mm (1/4" to 5/16"). Would act as the fourth hand that always is missing ...

BR

/Peter

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:03:30 PM »

Quote from: John Stevenson on February 10, 2013, 03:41:02 PM

I have just surface ground the grip hatch pattern off mine, now hard and smooth and just give a quick clean up lick every now and again.

I thought about doing just that John ,,,,,,,but thought sod it why not make the vice a bit more user friendly

Dave ,,,,,,,, Geordies have different practices ,something to do with the beer

Rob

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:05:56 PM »

Hi Peter

There will be hardened pins going into those holes

Rob

raynerd · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:11:30 PM »

Just got myself an old Record No.3 yesterday... your jaws look great. On the list of things to do!

awemawson · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:25:05 PM »

Quote from: raynerd on February 10, 2013, 04:11:30 PM

Just got myself an old Record No.3 yesterday... your jaws look great. On the list of things to do!

I still use the same Record No 3 that I bought with my first weeks wages in 1967 !!!!!!

Deko · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:52:24 PM »

Bloody brill those Rob, Bloody brill,

The only very small point i would question is the hardened pins !!! I have visions of a tad too tight and half a pin flying of into the great unknown leaving the bottom of the workpiece very scratched on the remains of the half left in the jaw. Based on previous encounters with broken pins.

Cheers Dek.

P.S. The broken bit would also be a pig to remove. Still a bloody brill idea, i will even hold back work on the clock to make some.

micktoon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2013, 06:45:08 PM »

Top marks Rob , a simple but cunning idea

as usual all done to top standard

...............looks like another thing for the to do list

, probably one of the most worthwhile as the vice is always in use

Cheers for posting Mick.

DavidF · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2013, 07:31:47 PM »

Oh great! Now I have another project to add to my to do list.

lockstocknbarrel · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:16:47 PM »

Hi Rob,
Almost up to your usual standard.

I sent you a email on 03-Feb-2013 did you receive it......................

Kindest Regards
Beagles

jb3cx · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:38:15 AM »

very nice rob good idea.once you have the mill set up its just as easy to make 4 or 5 sets of each,say for me,jhon,mick,and bob.

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:02:36 PM »

Cheers Lads

Hi Dek ,,,,,,, I did ponder that very problem (sheared off pin ), I think I may have it covered in my pin design

The pins are a light push fit in the holes and I also wanted to add some flexibility into the pins , guaranteed they will be too long /too short for the job in hand , so I am making them adjustable

From 1 mm

to 6mm

being threaded to a depth of 1 mm from the top if i shear one I can screw a screw in from the top and extract it

Quote

i will even hold back work on the clock to make some

dont stop the clock build

Rob

andyf · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:25:15 PM »

You could always take the holes all the way through at a smaller diameter, Rob. Then sheared pins could be pushed out from below. Too late if the jaws have already been hardened.

I too have a Record no 5, and I think I'll follow your lead. I also have a 3" Record. I reversed the jaws on that one, with thin Ally pads to "absorb" the serrations. It's good for holding flat stuff without marking it.

Andy

doubleboost · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:34:34 PM »

Quote from: RobWilson on February 11, 2013, 03:02:36 PM

Cheers Lads

Hi Dek ,,,,,,, I did ponder that very problem (sheared off pin ), I think I may have it covered in my pin design

The pins are a light push fit in the holes and I also wanted to add some flexibility into the pins , guaranteed they will be too long /too short for the job in hand , so I am making them adjustable

From 1 mm

to 6mm

being threaded to a depth of 1 mm from the top if i shear one I can screw a screw in from the top and extract it

Quote
i will even hold back work on the clock to make some
dont stop the clock build

Rob

If you look real close you can see machine marks on the pictures
(look like they have been fly cut)

John

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:45:45 PM »

Hi Andy

Yes , I did consider doing that too

I also have an unusual vice I picked up on Ebay for a couple of quid .

It has some nice features , anyway if i mount it directly to the bench it would be way to low for me , so i am going to make a plate to mount the vice in the larger vice .

which will bring it up to a better working high for me . Any of you lads recognize the vice ? no makers name on it .

Rob

Divided he ad · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2013, 06:53:15 PM »

Sweet solution to an old problem Rob

I was chatting to Dek today and he described the vice jaws. Very good idea.

I'm sure it'll be copied a great deal (shame about the lack of royalties! Watch some bugger rob the design like they did the ball turners! )

Oh, BTW... Fancy delaying Dek's work on the super clock!

(don't know it's official title?)

The clock is nothing short of a work of genius

Took me a good few min's to understand the inner workings

As much as I want one, there is no way I'm going to attempt to build one, I ain't that good! or patient

Ralph.

micktoon · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2013, 07:18:19 PM »

The pins look good Rob, Like Peter says you may aswell do a batch next time

, That little vice looks interesting and a handy bit of kit

I bet there will be hundreds of your 'Patented' vice jaws about in a few weeks lol

................... you wont get no money................ but you might go to heaven

Cheers Mick.

Meldonmech · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2013, 06:33:15 AM »

Rob,
You can't use those works of art on that poxy old vice, you will have to completely restore it and polish it all over.

Cheers David

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2013, 01:46:08 PM »

Very nice work Rob!

Eric

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2013, 01:50:26 PM »

Quote from: Meldonmech on February 12, 2013, 06:33:15 AM

Rob,
You can't use those works of art on that poxy old vice, you will have to completely restore it and polish it all over.

Cheers David

nope they will just get slapped into "that poxy old vice" when done David

well I may slap some fresh paint on the vice .

Rob

Deko · « **Reply #29 on:** February 12, 2013, 01:57:50 PM »

Another brill idea with the pins Rob, but please dont come up with any more jobs to do.

I allready have enough to keep me going for the next 10 years at least, (says he more in hope than expectation aged 72 with emphysema)

Ralph you bloody creep ! wots orl dis genius baloney, all dem bits and you just go swearing about me.

Cheers Dek.

krv3000 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 12, 2013, 06:01:49 PM »

well dun rob

Divided he ad · « **Reply #31 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:40:36 PM »

Quote

Ralph you bloody creep ! wots orl dis genius baloney, all dem bits and you just go swearing about me.

You know I'm right

One of these days I'm gonna make something worth showing off about.... But it ain't gonna be a super clock! Far too advanced

When I get a few days I'm certainly gonna make up some vice jaws.... My aluminium ones are getting very tired.

Don't got none of that super chrome steel that they have up north, so they'll probably be made from old garage door bits

Not too sure about hardened ones.... But the beauty of owning these machines.... you can always make more

Ralph.

Miner · « **Reply #32 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:49:02 AM »

Well Rob, it's a bit pointless to design and build something like those jaws and not know for sure that it's an interchangeable parts fit. I just happen to own another 5" Record I bought before they closed up shop maybe 15? years ago. With some proper arm twisting and maybe a keg of the British finest shipped over, I just might be willing to test those new jaws on my vise for you. Honestly there's no real thanks nessisary. I'd just feel guilty if you tried. If they do fit? Well then you'll know it's a good accurate design and you can then build another set for your vise.

Pete

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #33 on:** February 16, 2013, 07:18:22 AM »

Cheers lads

I knocked up the shouldered screws this morning

hopefully I will get time this weekend to hardened all the parts .

Rob

dsquire · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2013, 12:55:03 AM »

Rob

Looks like another one just about off the list. Excellent workmanship as usual. Thanks for sharing with us.

Cheers

Don

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:37:47 AM »

Thanks Don

Well there not looking so good now

hardened

And I have a wee problem with two of them

, the buggers cracked ,BADLY

Those two I just left in the pickle over night that why the surface looks so ruff /corroded , I will dig out my crack test sprays and see if the others have any fine cracks I cant see with the old eyes . Either way I will be milling up a few new jaws

Rob

loply · « **Reply #36 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:34:12 AM »

Rob,

That's very frustrating. The crack along the face looks odd as it doesn't seem to stem from anywhere in particular.

What material are they made from? Were you case hardening or through hardening?

Could you possibly stop-drill, tig weld a nice deep puddle, and regrind to hide the weld?

Rich

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #37 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:52:23 AM »

Hi Rich

Frustrating , sort of ,it happens , I am sure I will learn something form it

Quote

What material are they made from?

Wish I new , did the usual scratch and sniff test (spark test) can up high carbon , did sample pieces with saw cuts/vee's machined in ,carried out a brine,water and oil quench all came out fine .Probably next time go for the softer quench ,oil instead of water .

Quote

Were you case hardening or through hardening?

went for through hardening.

Odd that just two cracked , the one with the crack on the face stems from the bottom of the pin holes

Quote

Could you possibly stop-drill, tig weld a nice deep puddle, and regrind to hide the weld?

Rather just make a new set

Rob

Mayhem · « **Reply #38 on:** February 17, 2013, 07:13:34 AM »

Nice work Rob (there really should be a dedicated "nice work Rob" smiley).

What about case hardening the jaws?

micktoon · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2013, 03:59:18 PM »

Hi Rob , sorry to see them cracks like that

..........the only silver lining ( if there is one ) is you will probably figure out what caused it and be able to avoid happening in future projects that you might have spent more time on. Oh if your making full new sets ...........dont go throwing anything in the bin ............ I know someone that might try practicing T.I.G welding on parts something like that

Cheers Mick

vtsteam · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2013, 08:28:20 PM »

A true craftsman to do work that well, and take it in stride when a step didn't turn out, and make it again, better even than before, And showing the problems so we can all learn.

jb3cx · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2013, 01:49:59 PM »

That's a bummer rob all that hard graft down the pan. Never mind rob I'm sure you will get it right next time

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #42 on:** February 24, 2013, 04:15:50 PM »

Quote from: Mayhem on February 17, 2013, 07:13:34 AM

Nice work Rob (there really should be a dedicated "nice work Rob" smiley).

What about case hardening the jaws?

Hi Mayhem

Case hardening would be one option , BUT they would need to be pack hardened/box to get a good depth of case to allow for any distortion to be removed by surface grinding , I would have gone that rout if they hard fit in my case hardening box , 1/2 inch too long

Quote from: vtsteam on February 17, 2013, 08:28:20 PM

take it in stride when a step didn't turn out, and make it again, better even than before, And showing the problems so we can all learn.

Hi Vtsteam ,,,,,,, Some days things dont go to plan ,would of if I new exactly what I was trying to harden

, either way it has give me a chance to change a few things in the new jaws

Quote from: micktoon on February 17, 2013, 03:59:18 PM

. Oh if your making full new sets ...........dont go throwing anything in the bin ............ I know someone that might try practicing T.I.G welding on parts something like that

Cheers Mick

are you sure Mick ,,,,,, did a bit destructive testing , took a sledge hammer and an anvil to bust

Hi Peter ,,,, It happens

Well my plans went out the window, wile cracking on with making a new set of jaws,minding my own business I here the thud thud thud of an old motor cycle put up ,my mate on his Norton ,in he comes jibbering on about Stafford show ,centre circle and needing his Triton built in six weeks ,so I have now been roped into helping out

Then mentioned do I want a Beaver mill for nowt . went and had a look.

Just a tad too large for my needs

so it ended up skipped , but I did whip the slotting head off, may come in handy

and wile rummaging around the scrap I stumbled across a Elliot vice , bit rusty , but not drilled another one to add to my collection of vice's that need attention .

Back to the jaws ,I managed to get a set of blanks machined up .

Hardened the plain jaws , oil quenched this time .

and ground up.

Dont no if its just me but they seam to have a better grip for less tightening of the vice .

And holding thin parts edge on at the tip of the jaw is a breeze , ruler is 0.4mm thick

Rob

doubleboost · « **Reply #43 on:** February 24, 2013, 04:20:01 PM »

Cracking job as usuall
That mill would have been very canny for your "collection"

John

raynerd · « **Reply #44 on:** February 24, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »

Great job Rob!

DMIOM · « **Reply #45 on:** February 24, 2013, 06:15:24 PM »

Quote from: RobWilson on February 24, 2013, 04:15:50 PM

..... Hi Mayhem

Case hardening would be one option , BUT they would need to be pack hardened/box to get a good depth of case to allow for any distortion to be removed by surface grinding , I would have gone that rout if they hard fit in my case hardening box , 1/2 inch too long

Well come on Rob - this isn't like you

Would have expected you to immediately set to work and made a bigger & better one !

Is pragmatism creeping in? are you coming down to our mortal level

p.s. marvellous work as usual

cheers / Dave

vtsteam · « **Reply #46 on:** February 24, 2013, 07:43:29 PM »

Those jaws are fantastic -- holding that rule on edge like that.

I could do that in my vice.

But the edge would be serrated afterwards!

AdeV · « **Reply #47 on:** February 25, 2013, 08:22:23 AM »

Quote from: Mayhem on February 17, 2013, 07:13:34 AM

there really should be a dedicated "nice work Rob" smiley

How about this (suitably scaled down, of course)?

Seriously, nice work again there Rob. An next time you're throwing a beaver on the scrappies, give me a shout first, I'm always up for bagging impractically large machinery....

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #48 on:** February 25, 2013, 11:32:31 AM »

Cheers Lads

Hi John ,,,,,,, I could not be arsed to move it ,any way I need the space for more interesting machines

Cheers Dave ,,,,,,,, yes it would of only took me lest time than it takes to have a smoke too stick a new box together ,BUT it would not fit into my oven as the box would need to be at least 1 1/2 longer

, the box I have just fits , could do with a larger oven ,anyone got one kicking about ?

Dam now all I have to do is spray the job

Hi Ade ,,,,,,,,,,,,, there is a reason I could have it for nowt , the head and one of the power feed gearboxes are buggered ,spindle stuck in low (i think) , So probably more than you would want to take on . I will keep you in mined

Rob

micktoon · « **Reply #49 on:** February 25, 2013, 04:47:02 PM »

Hi Rob , you have been busy , splendid job as usual

, ............... I reckon the jaw you destruction tested would still weld up fine with a little patience

...................... I dont have much patience though

Keep up the good work

Cheers Mick.

krv3000 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 27, 2013, 06:19:49 PM »

oooo Triton i all ways wonted one nothing in his work shop for me

them jaws are brill i may be cheeky and get you to mack just a normel set for my vice its made in canider and record ones don't fit

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #51 on:** March 02, 2013, 03:40:20 PM »

Cheers Lads

Well that's the jaws finished

I have only hardened the plain jaws for now ,as I may still add a few mods to the other jaws .

A few really griping shots of the jaws in action , just with crap I have on the bench.

Holding work for threading .

Driving out roll pins .

Odd shaped work

Thin part

Jaws can be mixed and matched

It takes me 17 seconds ( I time it sad git) to change out all four sets of jaws ,,,,,,, it takes 7 seconds to just wind the vice open enough to get a screwdriver in to the original screws

FREE TO GOOD HOME

Rob

John Rudd · « **Reply #52 on:** March 02, 2013, 04:31:48 PM »

'free to good home'......

I'll have 'em......

Seriously, nice job Rob... I like it when a plan comes together ( as Hannibal sez.....)

It truly amazes me how innovative we can be and the skill and determination we have to produce such great works.....and as usual you have surpassed yourself...

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #53 on:** March 02, 2013, 10:50:53 PM »

Those are really nice Rob. One day I may attempt something like that!

Eric

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #54 on:** March 03, 2013, 04:24:08 AM »

Thanks Eric

Hi John , do you seriously want the old jaws ? will stick em in the post if you want them .

Cheers Rob ,,,,,,,,,,pondering what to make now

DMIOM · « **Reply #55 on:** March 03, 2013, 04:36:03 AM »

Splendid, inspirational job Rob - no exotic materials, just design & honest craftsmanship & a well-told story.

Quote from: RobWilson on March 03, 2013, 04:24:08 AM

,,,,,,,,,,pondering what to make now

perchance something CNC-related?

Dave

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #56 on:** March 03, 2013, 02:04:13 PM »

Thanks Dave

aaarh the CNC hoping to get back on with that at the end of the month , I really need a good sort out of both shops first so I have room to move , hoping to do it over the Easter weekend when I will have more time to drag everything out , bet it pisses down

I may make a couple of small instrument vice'''s to fill in time, or a rad tool for the myford ,,,mmmmmmmm maybe a brake for my hydraulic press

Rob , the indecisive one lol

AdeV · « **Reply #57 on:** March 03, 2013, 06:19:27 PM »

Rob, those look like they might do rather well on a milling machine.... do you reckon they've got the accuracy to be repeatable? Or would you want a different way of fitting them to the vice?

krv3000 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 03, 2013, 06:50:57 PM »

hi rob is you vice a record one if so then them jwas will not fit mine

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #59 on:** March 04, 2013, 11:33:08 AM »

Quote from: AdeV on March 03, 2013, 06:19:27 PM

Rob, those look like they might do rather well on a milling machine.... do you reckon they've got the accuracy to be repeatable? Or would you want a different way of fitting them to the vice?

Hi Ade , the way the jaws mount to the bench vice would not be accurate enough for repeatable milling work ,there is a few thou play in them . I would go for a different approach to mounting and securing the jaws in position for a milling application. I have a couple of ideas rattling around in the old head .

Hi Bob ,,,,,,,yes it is a record vice , I will keep them to one side for you

Rob

John Rudd · « **Reply #60 on:** March 04, 2013, 01:19:03 PM »

Quote from: RobWilson on March 03, 2013, 04:24:08 AM

Thanks Eric

Hi John , do you seriously want the old jaws ? will stick em in the post if you want them .

Cheers Rob ,,,,,,,,,,pondering what to make now

Honestly Rob, no thank you very much..I'm sure there's someone that can make better use of them.

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Author Topic: Bench vice jaws (Read 25202 times)

Rob.Wilson

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