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Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
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Topic: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller (Read 8391 times)
John Rudd
Hero Member
Posts: 2531
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Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
on:
January 18, 2013, 03:18:37 AM »
Is this possible? Replacing the cutter with a small grinding wheel running at the machine's highest speed?
Should it be done? Is it safe?
Do I need to have a word with myself?
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eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location: Backworth Newcastle
Skype: chippiejnr
NickG
Madmodder Committee
Hero Member
Posts: 1890
Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #1 on:
January 18, 2013, 03:46:21 AM »
I always wondered this as my centec mill used to have a quick rack mechanism on the slide too. However I think the general consensus was that most mills aren't as accurate as surface grinders and the spindle wouldn't go fast enough / shouldn't with the type of bearings in it. Still as long as the right precautions are taken it might be worth a try?
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Location: County Durham (North East England)
rotorhead
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #2 on:
January 18, 2013, 04:16:26 AM »
Hi John,
From experience, the most important factor would be a substantial metal wheel guard, other than that, providing you have a high enough spindle speed, and a good coolant flow you should be alright.
Chris
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Chris
Sunny Scunny,
North Lincolnshire.
DavidA
Hero Member
Posts: 1219
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Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #3 on:
January 18, 2013, 04:22:25 AM »
Do you really want all those grinding particles on your mill ?
Also, you need very good control of the raising and lowering. A high speed grinding wheel will NOT be forgiving if you take half a thou too much.
I wouldn't risk it.
Dave
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NickG
Madmodder Committee
Hero Member
Posts: 1890
Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #4 on:
January 18, 2013, 04:37:10 AM »
That's a good point the screws must be a much finer pitch to raise the table on a grinder.
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Location: County Durham (North East England)
John Rudd
Hero Member
Posts: 2531
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Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #5 on:
January 18, 2013, 05:52:49 AM »
Ok gents,
Points considered, I wont do this...
Thanks for the guidance
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eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location: Backworth Newcastle
Skype: chippiejnr
Lew_Merrick_PE
Hero Member
Posts: 690
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Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #6 on:
January 18, 2013, 12:12:59 PM »
John,
At the risk of reiterating everybody's comments: (1) Your milling spindle is unlikely to reach the rpm's necessary to do a decent job. One "trick" is to mount a die grinder (or something like it) in your spindle offset to spin the wheel. (2) Not having guards can be a
very bad thing
when a wheel finally
let's go
. (3) You
are
going to coat all your precision surfaces with bits of abrasive that are a PITA to clean up. And (4) the resolution of your vertical controls is pretty loose for grinding...
On the other hand, a decent surface grinder is not all that tough a project. Linear bearing rods on a solid base; a table that rides on them with adjustable "stops" that reverse either (A) a double-acting pneumatic cylinder or (B) an appropriate motor for the X-axis drive; a cross-feed driven off an appropriate screw thread with a
star-wheel
incrementor and a reversing lever; a tower supporting your grinding head mounted on a dual screw drive (a
coarse adjust
full-height screw and a
fine adjust
screw angled at (say) 5.7° so that .001 inch on your screw-feed is .0001 inch of motion (half-an-inch of travel should be sufficient); and Bob's your uncle!
I have built (and then sold off rather than move) several such beasts over the years. I have come to the conclusion that pneumatic drive is better than electric drive for the primary table motion. My latest version (currently in storage) uses a 1/2 HP motor with an o-ring drive to power the spindle. I spent the $$$ for ABEC-5 bearings for the spindle and see no different in results when compared to the one I build using ABEC-7 bearings previously -- though markedly better than the ABEC-3 version I first built. Thin (1/16th inch) neoprene covers protect the precision surfaces. The whole thing is covered with a plywood case that has (3) acrylic windows (each with a sacrificial acrylic sheet prophylactic) that opens up for access that keeps abrasive dust from migrating through my shop. A pair of 5-gallon buckets provide coolant & recovery via gravity. I probably spent $350 on materials and purchased parts back in 1996 when this (14 X 8 X 6 inch) version was built.
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Rob.Wilson
Guest
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #7 on:
January 18, 2013, 12:21:49 PM »
John ,,,,,,,,,,you still got that Adept shaper ?
Rob
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John Rudd
Hero Member
Posts: 2531
Country:
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #8 on:
January 18, 2013, 01:34:15 PM »
Quote from: RobWilson on January 18, 2013, 12:21:49 PM
John ,,,,,,,,,,you still got that Adept shaper ?
Rob
I certainly have...
What you thinking?
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eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location: Backworth Newcastle
Skype: chippiejnr
Rob.Wilson
Guest
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #9 on:
January 18, 2013, 03:11:33 PM »
Was thinking this
dose work ,used above set up pre Wilson owning a surface grinder ,actually pre Wilson owning a mill . Anyway if your only doing small parts a TP grinder and a micrometer barrel fitted to rear of slide would do the job .
Rob
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loply
Sr. Member
Posts: 260
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #10 on:
January 18, 2013, 04:20:41 PM »
I think you could do small bits of grinding on a mill, but 'surface grinding' I'm not sure about.
Typical surface grinder spins at 2,400rpm or so and would have a 7 or 8 inch wheel, giving a speed of 2500 feet per minute or thereabouts. If your mill spindle is slower and your grinding wheel is also smaller you will quickly end up a million miles off the required surface speed.
On top of that the traverse speed needs to be
very
high to get a good finish and the depth of cut tightly controlled between less than half a thou up to a max of about 1.5 thou, half a thou too much and things begin to get ugly, a thou too much and you're in dangerous territory.
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philf
Hero Member
Posts: 1127
Country:
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #11 on:
January 18, 2013, 04:37:13 PM »
I've been thinking about making a surface grinder based on an Alexander engraving machine base.
I envisage using the original 5 tpi z axis leadscrew which is driven via a 1:2 bevel gear from the handwheel - a 10:1 worm box would enable me to get 0.0001" steps in z.
I have a J&S? grinding spindle which I acquired about 20 years ago and feels nice and smooth. (Need a wheel arbor to fit.)
The original y axis will suffice but the x-axis only had about 8" travel. I have a beautiful very heavy duty crossed roller slide which would be easy to protect from grinding debris with skirts and extensions at both ends. This has about 14" travel.
I wasn't thinking about powering either the X or Y axes. I was going to drive the x axis via a handwheel driving a timing belt.
A wheel guard would of course be added.
I have a Union T & C grinder which I thought would be nice for surface grinding of small parts but the maximum reach of the wheel is only about 2".
Phil.
«
Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 02:33:27 PM by philf
»
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Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire
DavidA
Hero Member
Posts: 1219
Country:
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #12 on:
January 18, 2013, 04:58:18 PM »
..
.Typical surface grinder spins at 2,400rpm or so and would have a 7 or 8 inch wheel, giving a speed of 2500 feet per minute or thereabouts.
..
I get closer to 5040 foot per minute for an 8"dia wheel.
Can someone else give an opinion.
Dave
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RussellT
Hero Member
Posts: 535
Country:
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #13 on:
January 19, 2013, 05:48:25 AM »
8/12 times 3.142 times 2400 = 5026 fpm
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Common sense is unfortunately not as common as its name suggests.
DavidA
Hero Member
Posts: 1219
Country:
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #14 on:
January 19, 2013, 06:32:31 AM »
yes, that is closer.
I rounded up on the wheel circumference.
Dave.
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mattinker
Hero Member
Posts: 1316
Country:
Re: Surface grinding with a horizontal miller
«
Reply #15 on:
January 19, 2013, 07:35:25 AM »
Hi,
I realise it's not what you want to do, but it would be much easier to make a shaper run as a surface grinder.
Regards, Matthew
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