Potty Dake Engine

[sbwhart]

Well I've sortof made a start whilst I was making the link for the loco I had some long cuts to do so set the trips on the mill and just let it get on with it whilst I did a bit of work on the Dake.

The Dale is one of those engine thats best made from the inside out that way you make the part in the sequence they fit together so its just a matter of making each part fit.

So starting with the inner cylinder which is made from a 3" dia chunk of EN1A free maching mild steel.

Face of to thickness, and drill and ream a 8mm hole down the middle.



The turn up a 8mm mandrell a nice close fit on the cylinder, bolt the cylinder to it and skim the outside down to size.



Thats it for now, but every engine has to start someware 

Stew

[andyf]

I'll watch with interest and admitation, Stew. You do seem to like a challenge 

I might just be able to finish one like this, because it seems to be made from Lego:

Andy

[saw]

I will follow this with great interest 

[Stilldrillin]

You really have to be different, don't you Stew! 

Good luck with this build...... 

Following quietly along. 

David D

[sbwhart]

You really have to be different, don't you Stew! 


David D

My boss always says that:- don't know why 

Bit more done today

I was unsure as to the best way to progress on this, not quite sure what I would use the mandrel for but it just seemed a good idea to have one.

To mark out mounted the mandrell on the spin indexer used this to centre the height gauge then mounted the piston to it and used the indexer as a marking aid, the marking out is just for a sanity check that everything is going in the correct direction.



One of the problems with this engine is trying to get your head round what the important features are, I recon getting the side faces of the piston cymetrical and parallel but the crown of the piston is not so critical

So strating on the side faces, set the disc up in the vice

Using a parallel to get get it leve



 Find the top of the disc and zero the vertical slide on this, then mill the required amount off.



Flip it over and mill exactly the same amount off the other side. A quick measure showed that they were cymetrical within 0.05mm that will do.

Now to do the crown.  Set it up square in the vice using a 1*2*3 block this should be good enough.



Then mill as for the side.



This took all of my shop time for today this is it so far.



Stew

[sbwhart]

Some more done this morning.

To cut the steam ports the piston needs to be positioned correctly under the mill.

First in the  lathe and using an independat four jaw chuck set the bore running true.



Then mount the chuck on the RT with the RT set on zero clock one of the faces square by turning the base of the RT when level clamp it down.



Next you have to centre the RT under the spindle to do this I used one of those indicator things located in the bore.



With it lined up zero the DRO



Then using the a combination of the PCD feature on the DRO and the RT to generate the 31deg curve machine the ports by first drilling the ends 4mm and joining them up with a 4mm slot drill.





To drill into the ports mount the piston on the mandrell in the spin indexer making sure you get it square and with the mill zeroed on the centre line.



It is now an easy job to get the correct position to drill through into the port, just indexing round to get the position on each face, repeat for the location of the M3 holes.



To complete Tap M3 using the tapping table.



Thats the first part done.

Stew

[saw]

Stew, you are doing a greate jobb, but the most intressting thing with you is how you manage to find all of those remarkable constructions 
I have to edmitt I like to read youre blogg but I am not always understanding the mechanism. 

[sbwhart]

Cheers    Saw

Time for a progress update.

Made the side slipper bars for the piston I had some suitable brass bar in my stash.

Square it up and bring it to size.



Drill and mill the slots



And then it was  time I must have got one of the co-ordinates wrong for drilling as a result it was off set 1mm.

Rather than waist it decided it would come to no harm if I mounted the assembly in the four jaw and skim things level.





I think that came out better than the origonal, it 0.5mm thinner than I intended but that won't do any harm



Next part the outer piston/cylinder this part has a duel function it forms the cylinder for the inner piston, and also does duty as the outer piston.

I'm making this out of 5/16"*1" mild steel bar, first cut the bits off to length, then for the two side peices that the inner piston will work over, with them clamped together fly cut a light skim off, this takes care of the slight bend that was in the bar.



Keeping the parts in the vice so that the step at both ends is exactly the same as this helps to get a square assy, the vice was swiveled round 90 deg and the bar clocked level, doing it this way I could take advantage of the power feed.

Then mill the step to the same depth and to the correct width.



With this done the parts can be removed from the vice
Swivel the vice back and clock it square, and drill the holes and slot set the vice stop



Flip it over with the same edge against the stop and counter sink the holes.



Thats another bit done.



Stew

[sbwhart]

Thanks for you're interest chaps

Finished off the outer piston today.

Squared off the ends, and brought both sides to exactly the same length, had to take it steady as there was quite a bit sticking out.



Then drilled and tapped M3



Screwed it all together with stud lock.



Then over on the lathe in the four jaw skimmed both sides level and to size, had to make sure I was level in the jaws by taking a cut and checking that it was the same size all round, and adjust with a light tap.



I made the width just 0.05mm smaller than the inner piston.

Mounted the inner piston on the mandrell in the spinidexer and skimmed down each side to give a nice slide fit in the outer, doing it this way ensured it was cimetrical.



The outer piston slides in the outer casing, the sliding face needs to be square to the inner sliding face. So clocked the inner sliding face level on a angle plate.



Flip the plate 90 deg and skim up the outer sliding face.



Its an easy job to get the other face square and parallel by just sitting the good face on a 1*2*3 block and giving it a skim.



Quite pleased how that turned out.



The outer piston still needs the reces machining for the flange but I will do that when its assembled into the outer frame.

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

Stew...........

Will you be making anything I can recognise? 

I can see one of Rob's moulding boxes. Then you went an put a clock face in it....... 

I'm sure you know what you're about! 


Looking good, though! 

David D

[sbwhart]

Cheers Dave

I had to redraw the back plate mainly because I made the outerpiston from thicker 5/16 plate this would impact by reducing the clearance at the end of the stroke to 1mm so decided to increase the width of the plate to accomodate this change, also I realised that by not having adjustable jib strips I was changed the over all shape off the engine, so decided to increase the height so that it would look as though ut had jib strips fitted.

A made the back plate from some scrap yard 16mm thick ally jig plate.

First op square the plate up to size.



With the dro I find it easyer if everything is dimentioned from a common centre point also with my digital height gauge this also makes marking out easy.

Just zero the height gauge on the centre point, then you can make adjustments up and down to bring it on the size you want.



Just as a sanity check I centre poped the positions as an insurance I'm drilling in the right spot.

Set the plate up in the mill on some parallels so that I wouldn't drill into the table, and with a stop set up square to but the plate up against.

Find the edges of the plate and Zero the DRO on the centre point, first drilling op centre drill the zero position so that I have a datum point off set and centre drill for the bearing housing position, then using the PCD feature drill and tap 6 stud holes M4, and on the bearing centre line drill the edge of the plate to take 2*3mm dowels to aid alignment with the covers ets.




Then it was just a matter of walking round the edge to each poistion to drill M4 clearance and counterbore with a 5/16 slot drill to take the stud pads that will be fitted later.



The plate was too big to do all around it at one setting, so unclamp reposition and using a centre wound into the datum point and with the plate up against the stop, reclamp zero the dro on this new position and finish off the rest of the holes.





So far so good.



Now to maching the hole to take the bearing housing.

With my big four jaw independant chuck in the lathe with a wobble bar set up in the centre clock it up true to get position.



Just a matter now to put a bigger centre in the job drill the meat out then finish off to size with a boring bar.



Job done.



Still needs the bolting pads fitting and the edges rounding off so that it looks more like a casting, but I'll do that at final assy.

Stew

[andyf]

I'm fascinated!

Looking at your earlier post, all I can do is paraphrase Star Trek:
"It's a piston, Jim, but not as we know it..."

Andy

[sbwhart]

Looking at your earlier post, all I can do is paraphrase Star Trek:
"It's a piston, Jim, but not as we know it..."

Andy

Nice one 

Stew

[sbwhart]

The clamp holes and exhaust port for the front plate was machined up excatly the same as for the back plate.
For the anular inlet port I machined up a mandrel for a nice fit on the exhaust port.



Then mounted the chuck on the RT centred it under the quil and machined the port with a 3mm slot drill.





As a sanity check I tried the alignment of the dowel holes in the front a back plates.



Spot on 

I need to wait for the delivery of a 4mm long series drill before i finish of the front plate, so made a start on the bearing housing.

This is made from some 2 1/4" ally bar.

Face a centre drill then using a running centre machine down the OD. then drill through and bore out for the ball bearing pocket.



Swap in round in the chuck and protecting the finished dia with a strip of drinks can part off excess.



Clock up the register diameter.



And bore out the pocket for the other bearing.



Keping the job in the chuck swap over onto the mill and using that clock thing centre the quil up on the bore.



And drill the 6*4mm on the correct PCD.



And this is where it fits.



Another bit done.

Stew

[saw]

Wow excellent work 

[Rob.Wilson]

Interesting build Stew   

Sitting quietly watching .


Rob

[Stilldrillin]

I'm with Rob......

Mesmerised. 

David D

[sbwhart]

Thanks  Bennie/Rob/Dave

A little more done today.

I didn't like the look of the bearing housing far too square to look like a casting so set it back up in the lathe, and slew the compound over 5 deg and tapered the back end a bit.



That looks better



OK back to the front plate turned up the central boss to a tight fit in the exhaust port with the outside 50mm dia so that I can write the words DAKE ENGINE on it, and fixed it in place with some high strength loctite.



The plug only goes into the exhoust 5mm, I wanted to fit it first as the long air ways will cut into it. To drill the air way I used a 4mm long series drill.



Long series drill along side a standard jobber drill.

Clamp to angle plate centre drill and then drill part way with the jobber and finishe to depth with the long series clearing the chips as you go so that it doesn't jamb or break. I also ground one land of the long series drill long so that it would drill big so if it did break i would have a fitting chance of getting it out.



The inlet hole only goes as far as the anular port, the exhaust hole crosses the anular port into the exhaust port, to seal it off from the the inlet a thin wall brass tube goes down the hole to bridge the inlet anular port.



Stew

[sbwhart]

Well I'm a bit overwelmed by the interest this is generating.

So moving on to the next part the outer cylinder this is ally fabrication and is made the same way as for the inner cylinder.







With the square made I I found the centre and drilled the hole for the location dowels so that the end plates could be accuratly located.

As I doubted that the holes for the two end plates would be accuratly matched i decided that it would be best to spot the hole postions for the two plates seperatly using a tranfer punch.





The fixing screws holes were filled with Milliput epoxy stuff.



I then had to make a spacers to take the slipper strip this is instead of the gyb strips that the real engine has fitted.



Then make the brass slipper plates.



This is how they fit



And a quick hows it looking so far shot



Stew

[andyf]

Well I'm a bit overwelmed by the interest this is generating.

It's had 850 views so far, Stew, so there's plenty of interest.
It's just that our minds are so boggled  that we don't know what to say!

Andy

[Stilldrillin]

Well I'm a bit overwelmed by the interest this is generating.

It's had 850 views so far, Stew, so there's plenty of interest.
It's just that our minds are so boggled  that we don't know what to say!

Andy

He's right, yer know! 

David D

[DaveH]

Stew,

Fabulous - nicely done and shown, great photo's 
You go to a lot of trouble to take photos and post them. From me it is very much appreciated.
 
DaveH

[dsquire]

Thanks  Bennie/Rob/Dave

A little more done today.
.
.
.
The plug only goes into the exhoust 5mm, I wanted to fit it first as the long air ways will cut into it. To drill the air way I used a 4mm long series drill.



Long series drill along side a standard jobber drill.

Clamp to angle plate centre drill and then drill part way with the jobber and finishe to depth with the long series clearing the chips as you go so that it doesn't jamb or break. I also ground one land of the long series drill long so that it would drill big so if it did break i would have a fitting chance of getting it out.

Stew

Rest assured Stew we are watching and paying attention. Where else could I get good little tips like this to make things a bit easier. I continue to watch, read and learn Stew.

Cheers 

Don

[Rob.Wilson]

And a quick hows it looking so far shot



Stew

    cracking job Stew     Looks a canny size engine , are you building it to scale ?


Rob

[sbwhart]

Thanks Guys

I've gone through a period of self doubt with this one, will it work have I made this bit correct etc etc but I'm at the stage where I can do nothing but "Keep Calm and Carry On"

No particular scale Rob but it will look like the smaller sized Dake Engines that they used on pully blocks.


Stew

[sbwhart]

Found this picture of a dake engine being used to power a winch, this got me wondering if I could use my engine to model this set up, but I'll need to drop on some gears bigest about 4 to 5 " with the reduction train to match, can any one help ?.



Stew

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Stew

Adding the winch would be a touch. Dont think i have any gears lying about. If you get stuck i could cut a set ot plain gears, leaving you to cut the spokes out.

Rob

[sbwhart]

Thanks Rob

I won't be taking this any further until I know I have a running engine, in the mean time I'll keep looking for gears, if nothing turns up I may just take you up on the offer.

Thanks again

Stew

[sbwhart]

I realy wasn't looking forward to maching the recesses I'd ran through it countless times in my mind with some wierd and wonderful ideas, but wonce I'd got the parts arround me I decided to keep to the simplest method.

So for the frame I just bolted the back plate to the frame, clocked it up square on the mill table.



Then centred the mill on the bearing housing bore in the back plate.



sorry about the crap pic.

Then using the boring head bored out the recess.

sorry no pic.

This is it finished.



For the inner piston again this was squared up on the table, and using the edge finders it was centred under the mill

At this point thing got hairy.

I had the boring tool sticking out of the side of the head as i thought this was a less flimsy set up but it ment I had to run the mill in referse, this worked fine for the outer frame.

But I didn't realise the mill head was screwed into the morse taper mandrell, this time the bugger unscrewed. 



This gave me an involantry bowel movement, after a shower and a change of pants,  things wern't as bad as they looked the part and boring head wasn't damaged.

So changed to this method i was pushing the capacity if the head, but by taking small cuts it all worked out.









Hopefully that the worst bit over, its getting close to the moment of truth.

Stew

[andyf]

Whoops! Glad it did no harm, considering the amount of work you've put into it.

I see that we got the full unexpurgated version, whereas you redacted it for the ME forum. They only got your last pic, labelled "Got the recesses machined in the cylinder for the inner piston flange apparently this helps with sealing of the ports."

Andy

[Stilldrillin]

Well...... That incident gave me something to comment on Stew! 

So pleased, no operators, (or project or equipment), were harmed during the making of this adventure.   

I'm still smockravelled with the rest of it, though........ 

Keep on, keeping on mate! 

David D

[sbwhart]

Made the crank yesterday, and i was thinking not much more now just the flywheel, then I remembered I had a spare 4" flywheel from the Simpson and Shipton build why not give it a go

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And it lives:----              we have a runner


 

 

 

I'll make a vid and post it sometimes over the week end

Stew

[BillTodd]

Video - or it didn't happen


Well done Stew - superb job 

Bill

[sbwhart]

Thanks Bill

Her's the vid

Stew

[Rob.Wilson]

  nice one Stew 


Rob

[andyf]

  Another great little engine rolls off your production line! I don't know how you get them to run first time.

Andy

[Stilldrillin]

That's marvellous Stew! 

Job's a good un! 

David D

[saw]

Wow you did it again 

[Noitoen]

Sounds like a a truck with a flat battery trying to start 

[sbwhart]

Thanks Guys

by popular request her's the vid of the innards, hope you don't think my explination is too clumsy.

Stew

[saw]

Thank you very much for good explonation on this marveles machine. You are an artist and this engine is a pice of art.
 

[Stilldrillin]

There's nowt clumsy, about that description Stew.   

I've got it, now......... I think! 

Well done, on all counts. 

David D

[Deko]

Stew, you should have made two.  One with no valve plate so you could use the complete one to drive the other (the one with no valve plate) so when showing folk they can see how it works. I am sure most folk will not have a clue otherwise, they will no doubt think it is some kind of turbine.    Excellent job as usual.

Cheers Dek.

P.S. Gears and perspex still here !!! ( only one of each, large one 3.7" 4 to 1 small one)

[sbwhart]

Cheers Guys

Stew, you should have made two.  One with no valve plate so you could use the complete one to drive the other (the one with no valve plate) so when showing folk they can see how it works. I am sure most folk will not have a clue otherwise, they will no doubt think it is some kind of turbine.    Excellent job as usual.

Cheers Dek.

P.S. Gears and perspex still here !!! ( only one of each, large one 3.7" 4 to 1 small one)

I've kicked the winch idea into touch Dek I don't think it will be feasable because of its slow running and at the moment it hasn't got a lot of power I can easily stop it with my hand so I don't think it will drive the gear train. In stead I'm going to make a big 4.5" light weight drive pully, just ordered a length of tube from ebay.

I was wondering about a wood model to show the innerds, but not sure if I'll do that as I wan't to get on with the Simplex work, just too many projects 

 

Stew

[sbwhart]

Where have the links to the vids gone 

Bit of an update:- made the two way valve.





Not bad:- still needs a bit of sculpting though.

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

That looks good Stew! 


What links, to which vids? Looks ok to me.........

David D

[sbwhart]

I think its my end Dave, had a clean up of my programmes and I think I deleted something that lets me see videos.

I get this message on the BBC site Cannot play media:-- You do not have the correct version of the flash player. Download the correct version

It has a link to adobie flash player tried down loading it but nothing happens, have we got a computer buff out their who can help.

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

That's ok Stew! 

We'll blame you..........   

David D

[Meldonmech]

What an interesting and fun engine, I am very impressed, well done.
                                                                                               

                                                                                                            David
                                                                                                       

[sbwhart]

Thanks Guys

Decided to make a pully for the engine, as i think making it into a winch would be a none starter.

Made it from a bit of 4 1/2" steel tube with the spokes generated from a bit of 5mm plate and stuck the lot together with high strength loctite.

[Stilldrillin]

Oh! 

I really like that, Stew! 

I would never have thought of a flat belt pulley.......   

Full er good ideas, aren't yer!   

David D

[sbwhart]

Cheers  Dave

Lot of the picture that I've found of the Dake have large diameter flat belt pullies, so I though why not, I think it wouldn't have worked coupling it up to a winch.

Stew

[sbwhart]

I'm afraid this has come to a stop, my father passed away on Saturday, and my emotions are far too raw to concentrate, I tried to revise the drawings as a way of keeping my mind ocupied, but I kept hearing my dad, who was an engineering, giving me advice so I had to stop.

Stew

[Pete W.]

Hi there, Stew,

I'm sorry to hear of your bereavement - please accept my condolences.

Best regards,

Pete W.

[Deko]

That goes for me to Stew. I dont mind getting my shouldes wet if you need one.

Regards  Dek.

[Stilldrillin]

Stew.

So very sorry to hear that news.

We hope, in the fullness of time things will ease for you.

Meanwhile...... We're thinking of you, and yours.

David & Christine.

[ddmckee54]

Stew,

I sorry for your loss.  It's trite, but time heals all wounds.  My father died in January of 2011 and my wife died in December of 2011.  I still think about, and talk to, both of them.  When I do that now I usually smile instead of starting to cry - things will get better with time.

As far as hearing him give you advice, if it was good advice - listen to it.

I always said that my wife was the idea person in the family and I just did the engineering to make it work.  I think she was the inspiration behind a couple of ideas I've had since she passed.

Don

[spuddevans]

Stew, I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you find comfort in your family and in your memories.

Tim

[andyf]

My sympathies to you and your family, Stew.

Andy

[saw]

My thoughts are with you and youre famely

[jonesie]

sorry to hear of your loss stew, it is never easy. jonesie

[AussieJimG]

Commiserations Stew, it sounds like you had a great Dad and you had him for a long (but never long enough) time. His legacy will remain with you for the rest of your life; he will always talk to you in the workshop. I think that's what they mean by life in the hereafter.

Jim

[sbwhart]

Thanks you all for your kind words of support its very much appreciated.

I've finished of the Dake engine with a flash of gray paint, the finish is not too great as the paint i used tends to chip and for some reason probably chemical it doesn't want to stick to the milliput filler.





I'll update the video to show the two way valve in operation.

Thanks to you all again

Stew

[saw]

Wow Stew. You have complited a wonderfull engine. This is a piece of art and I am glad that you have show us all of the magic picture of this crasy engine 

[sbwhart]

Here's the video of the finished engine running.

Stew

[saw]

 

[Stilldrillin]

Ohhhh....... Stew! 

That's certainly a different engine..... 

Don't know how you do it, but I'm pleased you do! 

David D






PS.
Done you a bit of Modding again. Hope it's ok........

[BillTodd]

Fantastic Stew

That really does show why it was such a successful engine despite its apparent efficiency drawbacks


BTW I had to chuckle at "OrigOnal" engine  - I spent five minutes thinking you'd discovered a new kinematic mechanism before I twigged you'd just spelled it wrong

[Stilldrillin]

PPS.
Nice touch. Remembering Dad in the final credit.........

David D

[sbwhart]

Thanks Guys 

Fantastic Stew

That really does show why it was such a successful engine despite its apparent efficiency drawbacks


BTW I had to chuckle at "OrigOnal" engine  - I spent five minutes thinking you'd discovered a new kinematic mechanism before I twigged you'd just spelled it wrong

OK Bill you spotted the deliberate mistake and win the coconut 

But to be honest i'm a lousy speller when I did it I looked at it and thought is that right, and came to the wrong conclusion.

 

Stew

[sbwhart]

I've now got the drawing revised if any one would like a free copy just drop me a Pm with your email adress

Stew

[Rob.Wilson]

  Missed the the finish of this engine Stew 


Just watched video ,,,,,, sure runs dam well  and looks the dogs bollocks 



Rob

[nel2lar]

Stew
I have not followed your build. I sorry to hear about your father. Just remember him for the good times. The build was more lovely than I thought. You are the hero, I wish one day to make them like you do. I will prayers for you, it all will be alright
Cheers
Nelson Collar