Author Topic: Help Req buying Rotary table (Read 17588 times)

HS93 · « **on:** February 02, 2009, 11:26:03 PM »

Hi Chaps i am looking for a small rotary table , it's to be used with my mini mill and at some time I would like to be able to fit a low profile chuck so the table has to be low ish in hight.I have looked at vertex http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Rotary_Table.html and HBM and Shoba and was wondering if anybody had any experiance I want to buy once so dont mind spending to do it than get a cheap one that may need replacing, it is only going to be used for light work brass and ally and plastic.

any prefrences ??

Peter

sbwhart · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2009, 08:27:26 AM »

Hi Peter

I bought a Vertex from RDG the only thing I could advise is buy the bigest you can. There a very usefull bit of kit. I vitted mine up with a jacobs chuch as a cheep and cherfull attachment not as good as a chuck but it met my requirements I also fitted a aluminium sacrivical top on the table with clamp holes to hold odd shapes, you can see it in use on my Loco build thread under projects.

Cheers

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2009, 08:35:55 AM »

I thought you would have gone for one of these Peter.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Rotary-Tables

John

raynerd · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2009, 03:58:16 PM »

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Rotary_Table.html

The 4" vertex seems a good price at £125 but when I was RDG last week I also saw that some of these RT can have their handle removed and a dividing plate and attached - I don`t know if this applies to the vertex RT. It would seems like quite a useful function for gear cutting and such...?

With the X2 having limited Z travel, I`m concerned that with a vice on top, will there be enough clearence?

And while I`m asking my 101 questions - I may as well throw in the idea of value for money, the 4" vertex is £125 yet the no brand at RDG is £60! For light work - brass, ally and such, is the vertex worth the extra.

If anyone has any comments on RT`s suitable for an X2 mill please do post - I`m just doing my research before buying one.

Chris

Bluechip · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2009, 04:29:31 PM »

Peter

This is a 110mm you can fit div. plates to. I have a 6" Vertex ( looks exactly the same as the Axminster 6" !!), with plates and tailstock. Got 'em about 4 yrs ago, the lot for £90. Closing down sale at a place near Gloucester .. so no good sending you there eh

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-110mm-Deluxe-Rotary-Table-453684.htm

Dave

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2009, 03:24:49 AM »

Peter,
This is my RDG no name 4" with 80mm chuck from Chester Conquest lathe.

Fitted to my Chester Conquest mill, there is just over 6 3/4" vertical clearance. chuck face to quill end.

Works well for me.....

I believe you can remove the nylon limit stop & gain more height, if necessary.

David D

raynerd · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2009, 03:28:11 AM »

Hope I haven`t confused anyone digging up this old thread ....

Chris

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2009, 03:30:02 AM »

Hmmm.........

I hadn`t noticed that!

sbwhart · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2009, 03:39:29 AM »

I use a 4" vertex I got it from RDG a few years ago it came complete with index plates and centre support, all very usfull additions. I'd try and get the biggest RT that will fit your mill, what will hold big will hold small, but having said that my 4" is plenty big enough for the type of work I do.

Stew

raynerd · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:06:55 AM »

Stilldrilling - sorry to confuse you, I didn`t want to start an identical thread if there was one already posted. Thanks for your info - the RDG no brand seems like an excellent price. Have you any idea if the handle on this can be removed and replaced with a dividing head. Gear cutting is something I would like to be able to do in future and therefore having a dividing plate feature on my RT would be useful.

Stew, thanks also for your input. I have seem the vertex 4" at RDG (I didn`t see the no brand) and I think that this is the maximum size for an X2 style machine. I have read on a few forums that a 6" will fit under but the size becomes restrictive.
The price of the vertex is £125 and an additional £52 for the dividing attachment and £30 for the tailstock - so your looking at £200 for the lot. I`m just temped to go with the no-brand at £60, half the price. It looks very similar and if it is working well with StillDrilling then it could be an option and at a better price.

Thanks for your help so far, any more opinions welcome and sorry for the intial confusion.

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:18:00 AM »

The answer to Chris's question would interest me too...

MY RT has no dividing facility....could one be added?

kellswaterri · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:21:16 AM »

Hi all,. David is right in that the height stop on the columb of the Chester Conquest mill can be removed to gain more height...I did it my self when machining the Corliss...only for it slipping out of gear when I over did the lifting part :clap:and a real pig to reengage the drive gear...so be aware,
All the best for now,
John.

bogstandard · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:04:49 PM »

Darren,

Yours is a very high quality RT, unlike most of the ones we have. As far as I know, yours is purely a RT and does not have the facility to have a dividing setup fitted. A setup requires a mounting system behind the handle for it to bolt to.

You could make one, and modify the RT to fit it, but you would need to find out what ratio the wormwheel is, as how you work out which holes you use and number of turns required is governed by the ratio. Some work on 90:1, 60:1 and others 40:1, plus I suppose others that I have no idea about. Then it is just a matter of getting the plates to fit, and the correct charts, which are based on the ratio the RT uses. But as long as you know the ratio, you can actually work without charts, and use formulae instead.

I will just explain that an RT with plates is not the same as a dividing head. A dividing head can tilt around a central point, which would require the RT to be fitted to a central tilting base to emulate a dividing head.

Where people trip up is that they think a basic dividing head will give you all numbers. The basic set of three or four plates will not give all numbers, there will be some missing that the plates and ratio just cannot compute. I have now got most numbers up into the hundreds by getting other plates with the numbers I had missing, and modifying them to fit my RT or dividing head, which both use the same plate setup.

You could go one step further in the quest for perfection and go for a universal dividing head, go down a bit on here.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml%3fhttp%253A%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2facatalog%2fcatalogbody%2ehtml%26CatalogBody&WD=dividing%20head&PN=Chronos_Catalogue_Vertex_Dividing_Heads_95%2ehtml%23aBS2#aBS2

These use a combination of gears and plates to obtain exactly what is required up to a certain number, plus the added advantage of being able to link onto the leadscrew of the mill and can allow you to mill spiralled shafts and curved gear teeth.

It all depends on how complicated you want it to get, and how deep your pockets are.
Using a dividing head can be as easy or as complicated as you want it to be. Some people can work miracles with just the basic equipment, it all depends how far you want to pursue it.

Most people can just get away with a little bit of calculation, and using the vernier scale on the RT handle, get very close to what they want.

John

Darren · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:46:24 PM »

Thanks John, after reading that I'm wondering if a separate DH might be a better option?

Would help if I was more familiar with them, but then I wouldn't be asking the questions would I.....

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:50:26 PM »

Quote from: Darren on July 06, 2009, 12:46:24 PM

Thanks John, after reading that I'm wondering if a separate DH might be a better option?
...

Why would you want a separate Divided He ad? Isn't one Ralph good enough for you?

Eric

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:55:19 PM »

As John says, anything can be modded to do almost anything.......

My no name has no facility for mounting dividing plates.

36 turns per rotation.

Work out the number of degrees between gear teeth, then wind accordingly per tooth & zero the dial for the next tooth.......

David D

bogstandard · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:59:29 PM »

Darren,

My dividing head gets very rare use, only when I need a wierd number do I use it or the RT with plates.

Most times, I can get away with just using the RT and it's degree scale coupled to the vernier.

But on the other hand, when you do need one, it is nice to know that you won't have to struggle cobbling up a setup.

John

Darren · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2009, 01:50:35 PM »

Is there an optimum worm drive ratio?

Everyone seems to use different ones.....

Darren · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:11:00 PM »

Had a real good look at my RT tonight, it's 90/1 ratio and looks as if it will easily lend itself to fitting dividing plates.

Again more info to absorb from what I can find on the net.....

bogstandard · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:27:37 PM »

Darren,

I don't think it really matters, you just end up with what you have got, and work with it.

But knowing the ratio is important when working with a dividing head, as that ratio is used in your calculations when working out plate, full rotations and hole number counts.

Many people think that it is just a matter of sticking a plate onto a dividing head and moving from hole to hole.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Calculations are required on the intial setup so that each time you move the handle by so many full revolutions, plus so many holes, it puts the blank in the correct position for the next cut.

It is very easy to make a mistake when using one. You can get almost all the way round making say a gear, fluff a count, take your cut, then start all over again from the beginning, with a new blank.

DAMHIK, many times.

BTW, I have a spare set of fittings and fingers you can borrow and copy if you like. You would just have to get your own plates made up.
You can in fact get them ready made, but you wouldn't know if they could be made to fit until after you have bought them.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Rotary_Tables___Indexers_93.html

Go down the page a bit and you will find this for mid 30 squids

DP1 Dividing Set for HV4 & HV6 Rotary Table, these are the same as mine, and include the plates.

Bogs

rleete · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2009, 06:16:47 PM »

Quote from: bogstandard on July 08, 2009, 04:27:37 PM

BTW, I have a spare set of fittings and fingers...

Really? No wonder you get so much done!

Darren · « **Reply #21 on:** July 08, 2009, 06:25:12 PM »

If you expand the picture on the DP1 it shows the fIngers and a bunch of other stuff, I wonder if they are included?

Next time I come over I'll bring the RT with me, I won't tell it where we are going in case it gets scared.

I mean, you locked it in the dark place........

bogstandard · « **Reply #22 on:** July 08, 2009, 06:48:30 PM »

Darren,

Everthing is included, plates, fingers, WHY, but I don't think the shaft or main collar, the bit with the thin bar sticking out of the side.

No need to worry over that RT, it has been in a lot of strange places during it's life, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending how you look at it, no-one ever knew how to or wanted to use it, so in all it's shuffle abouts, cupboards to drawers to racks, it just dropped a few bits off, and sat there doing nothing. Make a few easy replacement bits, and you will have an almost brand new, very expensive RT in your care. I say care, because that one must be at least 25 to 30 years old by now, and it will surely outlive you if well oiled and looked after.

John

NickG · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:06:57 AM »

An electronics whizz at our club fitted one members RT up with a stepper motor and a hand set that lets him use it as a dividing head. He says it's very accurate and he can dial in how many holes he wants to drill in say a cylinder cover, drill them then go back around and tap them, it lands in exactly the same point every time. I don't know the ins and outs of it but will try to find out more.

When I was looking at RT's I liked the look of this http://www.warco.co.uk/HV6-Rotary-table-C32F40EE41.aspx# unfortunately it looks like the accompanying tail stock, is out of stock.

Nick

raynerd · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:11:22 PM »

Guys, just a quick one - do you think a 6" Vertex RT will be too large and restrictive for an X2 (chester conquest) mill ? I`ve been offered one for £70 and considering these are £155 from RDG, it seems a good deal. Obviously would rather than spend £120 on a new 4" Vertex if the 6" will be too big.

Any advice appreciated - I need to give him an answer asap as I guess there will be other interest.
Chris

Bluechip · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:15:59 PM »

Chris

Pic of my Vertex 6" on a Warco WM16.. table is 180mm wide, table outer slots are +/- 125mm centres apart ..

Maybe give you an idea of what size it is. I think a 6" may be too big for your machine. Up to you though, your call.

I'm thinking of getting a 4", as well as, not instead of ..

Vertex is a bit heavy for this rheumakity old scrote to heave about.

Pic is of my embryo Dirod ..

Dave

DavesWimshurst · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:57:48 PM »

Dave,
I'm intrigued by your workpiece!
Dave

Bluechip · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2009, 06:37:52 AM »

DavesWimshurst ..

Sending you a PM. 'cos the reply has nothing to do with this thread really ..

Plus a few other comments & caveats reqd.

DaveBC

raynerd · « **Reply #28 on:** July 11, 2009, 04:28:23 PM »

Well, I generated the cash this week earlier than expected to pick up an RDG £65 no brand RT earlier today. Went down to RDG tools with my cash and stupidly hadn`t given much consideration to a chuck! I have a few chucks all which came with my boxford lathe so I picked up my 4" pratt burnerd 3 jaw chuck that is practically redundant and took that with me to check it would sit OK. Like I said, I hadn`t given this much thought and when I went down to RDG it was only then that I realised I wouldn`t be able to fit it on the RT. It is rear mounting to start with (rather than front which this RT uses) and the only other option would be to buy a boxford threaded to MT adaptor - however these little 4" RT apparently do not allow a large converting arber to tighten up correctly!

So, all my fault, I didn`t consider the chuck enough but unless I figure a way to fit this 4" it looks like I`m going to have to wait even longer and save up for a front mounting chuck. Seems such a shame when I already have one free! Anyway, I got some other bits and left the RT, no point in getting it if I can`t use it!

Is a new front mounting chuck my only option or is there anything else to consider - to be honest, as always, it is all down to cost or I`d just buy one!!

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Author Topic: Help Req buying Rotary table (Read 17588 times)

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