Author Topic: puddleduck engine build (Read 36832 times)

mzt · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2012, 05:34:32 AM »

Alex,

there's something going definitely wrong with them inserts, aint the one to tell You exactly what it is, but You're breaking more than I do.

some points to check:

- eventual play in the spindle, slides, carriage.
- inserts 'target' material: i.e. inserts purposely made to cut aluminium won't last long on a steel workpiece, those made for c.i. won't do a good job either.
- tool edge height: might be slightly below the wp. axis but never above.
- tool holder: some inserts are made to be used on flat toolholders, others require to be used on toolholders with negative rake.
- speed & feed: they're designed to increase production in shops, hence to be used at higher speeds than HSS.
- intermittent cuts should be avoided, unless comparatively light.
- depth of cut: no less than the point radius, otherwise they will intermittently 'refuse' to cut the wp. and then cut too deep, mangling the finish.
- tool holder quality & material: the lesser, the lesser overhang from the turret.
- coolant: constant; either flood, mist or none. An occasional squirt from the bottle does no good.

Marcello

mzt · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2012, 05:48:19 AM »

that material 'silver steel' maybe fairly hard.
Try cutting the reduced diameter of the shank in steps: i.e.

say, a 6mm rod to be reduced to 3 for a lenght of 20.

Chuck in a 10/12mm rod for the required lenght (unless You can use collets).
reduce to 3.01 for 5mm.
next 5
next 5
next 5
same as above for the 6mm portion.
file to size.
part off.

Marcello

ParCan · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2012, 01:21:26 PM »

Hi mzetati

Thanks for your ideas and comments.

These tips have a 1mm radius on the corners.
I have no idea what the tips are designed for but they cut Mild steel very nicely.

I think my machine is setup quite well, what others think may however vary. There is no perceptable movement anywhere.

I do most of my work with Brass and get a very nice finnish using tips dedigned for a Boring bar. The top is totally flat.

The Tips I used for the Silver Steel (also known as drill rod) have a very steep cutting angle on them, maybe to steep.

Cuts were around 0.2mm with a bottle of coolant dribling over the work / tool constantly.
There is no way that I could have gone from 6mm to 4mm in 1 cut, certainly with my setup.

I'll have a think and see what I can do to improve things.

Alex.

mzt · « **Reply #28 on:** May 21, 2012, 03:21:47 AM »

Alex,

those 1mm radiused inserts should be heavy duty, no way they should break when feeded .2mm.

Maybe they're designed for mild materials, the very steep cutting angles bring to mind aluminium. Anyay, If You have the box, the complete insert code letters and numbers should give You all the information about the 'target' materials (though they're a real pain to decode). You will have to check the same brand catalog.

Marcello

--
another reason for insert breakages could be the toolholder area not being completely flat, a small burr or ridge would be enough. Some inserts require to be supported by an HSS plate: I have a few, together with the holder, but cannot recall having ever got around making any use of them.

ParCan · « **Reply #29 on:** May 21, 2012, 09:26:10 AM »

A Box ?
Code numbers ?
You gota be Jokin.

These were freebies in a lil plastic bag !

Alex.

raynerd · « **Reply #30 on:** May 21, 2012, 06:06:43 PM »

Is it not running yet?

lol

ParCan · « **Reply #31 on:** May 22, 2012, 02:14:42 PM »

I'm definately getting better at this machining lark.
I decided to do the Valve Blocks in a 4 jaw.
It's paid dividends BIG time.

I centered the bar in the 4 jaw. Faced off an end and drilled it 1/8 for 35 mm the 5.5 for 36 mm
I have some slow spiral negative rake drills and they really do cut brass like butter.

Both holes were slightly out so I machined the 1st side to suite the Hole.
Turned it over and machined it to size - 18mm
The hole is now centeral. Did the 2nd using the same method.

Then hogged them both down equally to 16.5 mm. Measured the hole and pulled the hole central again.

Both blocks are within .05 mm, square, and the hole is within .02mm

I'll start drilling tomorrow......

Alex.

ParCan · « **Reply #32 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:41:25 PM »

Oh Bother said Pooh ( or something to that effect )

And I was doing so well.....

mzt · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2012, 02:24:32 AM »

What's wrong with them?

Marcello

ParCan · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2012, 06:24:23 AM »

The 1 on the Right is drilled at the wrong end

mzt · « **Reply #35 on:** May 24, 2012, 07:12:07 AM »

Now You tell me what and where, I can see it. Thank You.

Now what?
"Parts for future projects" box and start over with a new piece, or some press fitting plugs into them holes & redrill ? (admitting it would be possible)

Marcello

ParCan · « **Reply #36 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:27:44 PM »

I'll just make another 1

I'm planning a Foundary doofah thingy wotsit so I can remelt all my brass scrap.

ParCan · « **Reply #37 on:** May 28, 2012, 02:40:33 PM »

Not had quite as much time lately.

Things have moved on again.

valve blocks are ready to be reamed to 6 mm. just working out exactly how I go about that.
Trying to re centre the hole in the lathe is not going to be easy.
Drilling it on my cheepo wickes drill is garunteed to go wrong as well.
The lathe is the best bet, I'll drop it in a 4 jaw, I have a height gague, and center the hole.

The 1st valves are no good. I have tooling marks in them and the 4mm bit is a taper from 3.98 <--> 4.35 mm. That'll never seal.

2nd attempt at the valves is going much better. I'm using Mild steel this time.
Started with 8mm Rod and used a center to hold it steady.
Hogged off to 5 mm for the 4 mm dia bit then slowly to 4.05 mm.
Used a fine file to take it to 4 mm, then a Pollish with solvo.

The 6mm bits are hogged to 6.5 mm for now. I'll take the center bit out, do the drilling then turn the last bit to 6.0 mm and pollish with Solvo.

More pictures next time......

Alex.

ParCan · « **Reply #38 on:** June 04, 2012, 02:12:49 PM »

A good few hoiurs in the workshop later...

Steam Valves are complete and work. Just need to attach the Packing glands.
Remade another spool (that's the 7th started so I'm quite good at those now)
Made the M2.5 Studs from a welding rod.
Made the steam valve end plates.

The Piston block is now assembled and complete.

Made the eccentric straps (rather badly I have to say) I'll have another go at those.
Remade the eccentrics in Ally - Nylon was just not going to work.......

Stripped the crank and put the oil holes in the bearing blocks.
Also did the cutout for the eccentric on the Base Plate.

I noticed some play in the chuck whilst cutting up my sash weight so ended up stripping down the Lathe Headstock.

The bearings are in very good condition all things considered. (It's an ML7 made in 1954)
A Bit of blue greasy gunk showed the top shell was lose but the bottom was sitting really nicely.
I re shimmed the blocks until there was a tiny bit of friction then added a fag paper.
There is no play and the spindle runs freely.
I'd also note that Oil Consuption has dropped dramatically

.

I may get some more time to play tomorrow.

Alex.

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #39 on:** June 04, 2012, 03:12:48 PM »

Hi Alex...

Looks like you are making some good progress on the engine. One of these days I will get off my rump and make one. You get some good machining experience out of it.

Eric

ParCan · « **Reply #40 on:** June 05, 2012, 01:12:06 PM »

Got the Con rods remade today.
Put a small (0.25mm) boss on the Big end to help keep it all free and not rub on the crank webs.

The whole thing has been stripped, cleaned and lubed before Building it right up.
It all turns, but i'll leave that there. There are tight bits all over the place.

Pistons drop under their own weight. They are spot on.
Crossheads slide on their own, until you start linking them together with the Pistons and / or crank.
Crank on it's own is not bad, 1 Bearing Block is a tiny bit to far out but I really should remake those anyway as they are upside down.

I think I have a hole or 2 off square in the Crank Webs.

Crosshead rods are (were) ~ 1mm out. Holes filed to make them work. I really should remake the Top Plate.

All In all I'm not unhappy with what I have made and have had hours of fun already.
The reality is coming to me that this engine may or may not actually work !
There are simply to many errors duing my learning process.

My plan is to complete this engine and see if I can make it go, then use the experience I have gained to build a second.
I also intend to invest in a Mill.

The Milling slide on the Myford works but everything takes forever to setup and machine.
I's also suseptable to moving if you try and take anything more than a 1mm deep cut.
Tighten it up more and it distorts the Cross slide.

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #41 on:** June 05, 2012, 05:43:17 PM »

Quote from: ParCan on June 05, 2012, 01:12:06 PM

...
...I have made and have had hours of fun already.
...

That is the most important part. Having fun!

Eric

krv3000 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 05, 2012, 07:25:52 PM »

hi I'm imperst my next engine will be a twin so I'm watching your billed with grate interst

DaveH · « **Reply #43 on:** June 06, 2012, 02:40:21 PM »

Alex,

I have to say, if you can mill on a lathe, then milling on a milling machine will be a "walk in the park"

Your engine is looking good, nice work

DaveH

ParCan · « **Reply #44 on:** June 09, 2012, 03:28:43 PM »

I jumped on the Bike and Nipped in to East London today to look at the mil; offerings from http://www.amadeal.co.uk.

The guy I spoke to was helpfull but is not an engineer in any way shape or form.
They as a company are in it to buy, sell, trade and do business. They trade in SEIG machines direct from China.
All in all they have a reasonable premisis with a reasonable amount of stock kicking around.

Looking at their XJ12-300, it's little more than a drill.
The AMA16 is small, compact and looks much sturdier.
The AMA25 is a lot more money but I think for anyone serious, not a bad (at the small end of the market) machine.

The AMA25 is to large for my workshop, so I bought an AMA16LV with a Vice and Collett set.
After a bit of haggling a deal was struck and it should turn up here on Tuesday.

We shall see how good the machine actually is.

Alex.

andyf · « **Reply #45 on:** June 09, 2012, 08:30:27 PM »

Hi Alex,

I think you'll do OK with Amadeal. I haven't bought anything expensive there, but those who have give Hugh (the owner) full marks for after sales service. I have met him; nice chap. As you say, he isn't an engineer (a retired pharmacist, IIRC), but his prices are pretty keen and much of his stock comes from Chinese manufacturers like Weiss who (it is said) have higher standards than the usual suspects. Not sure if he sells any Sieg products.

Andy

ParCan · « **Reply #46 on:** June 13, 2012, 03:15:43 PM »

New goodies arrived today:
Silver Solder, Flux and a blow Lamp.
That should do to get me moving again on the engine. (I need to solder the rods to the eccentric straps)

And then more goodies arrived:
Fire cement, a Crucible and some Tongs for my Furnace to re melt my Srap Bass and turnings. (Dont tell my fair lady I plan to use here waste paper basket and a Flower Pot from the Garden)

Then a Really heavy wooden crate turned up. The Driver says "Got a Trolly or forklift ?"
We dragged it out of the van and dropped it on my front lawn before I pondered how I get it inside and up 2 flights of stairs.
Deciding to remove excess weight (the wooden crate) first a jemmy was fetched.
I now have some sheets of Ply wood AND some nails :0

The inside of the crate revealed it's wonders after about 5 mins, a small balck plastic box, 1 small wooden box and a cardboard box, oh and a lil AMA16LV Mill.

Attempting to move the de crated mill was again never going to happen on my own so i set about separating the Head from the Column and base.
A Bolt and a Nut later I carried the head in and placed it on my workbench.

Thinking the rest would now be easy was a mistake. I then had to separate the Column from the base.
the Tool box contained chocolate:
Alan keys.....

They were dropped swiftly in the "Small bits of steel" Box and decent alen keys made easy work of the 4 bolts.

The base was still bloody heavy I have to say.

As usual a complete strip and clean was required as it had a film of brown gunk on it.
A Litre of white spirit and some paper roll later I reassembled everything.
Also pulled all 3 screws apart to put propper lube on them and the thrust bearings.

Movement needs to bed in a bit, It's well lubed with some propper slideway oil.
There is a lil bit of Lash for me to try and iron out, nothing major.

The MT2 Collett set looks very reasonable.
The Tilt Swivel machine vice is, well, really nasty.
It's gona be a nightmare to square up and is far from "precision"

I'll see how it works when I get some metal in to it.

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #47 on:** June 13, 2012, 05:03:31 PM »

You got yourself a mill? How cool is that!

With what you have been gaining milling on the lathe... you will do well on the mill

Eric

mzt · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2012, 04:16:11 AM »

Alex, that's good news!

Looks like Your mill requires a three handed operator to change tools (as mine does): two hands on the wrenches, and a third one to prevent the tool from falling. (They do. Either they damage the workpiece or loose they cutting teeth. One sad end does not exclude the other. 1mm mills snap.)
My 'solution' came with the habit of lowering the head to about 1" from whatever surface and interposing a small foam cushion (a loose did for a long while) before opening the collet. When the tool falls, I get it with one hand and raise the head with the other. The spindle lock pin is probably the only feature I miss from the mini, since I upgraded it.
A short piece of string going from the plastic spindle cover to the motor cover will prevent shop gremlins from stealing that cap, if not the wrenches.

Marcello

ParCan · « **Reply #49 on:** June 14, 2012, 02:02:41 PM »

TY mzetati for your tips.
I did wonder about the Cap - I'm sure it'll have the ability to hide in every possible nook it can find.

Tool changing on most small vertical mills is going to be hazerdous at best (either for the tool or work).
Some foamy tape stuff will be placed on the back of the Vice I think.

My first job will be making heaters for my 3D printer nozzles. That should give it something reasonable to munch on.

Good news is that my 24mm face cutter fits in the Colletts.
Cost me a £ at a car boot.

Alex

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Author Topic: puddleduck engine build (Read 36832 times)