Engineering...The Future+ My Son

[redshift]

Hi, I wonder if you guys would share your collective knowledge and experience and give me your thoughts on the following:-
As a youngster I left school, left home and moved to Birmingham to do an engineering apprenticeship and attend college, the
knowledge I aquired over the following years has helped me in all my working life.
I now find myself as an OLDER dad (with no previous experience!) having to guide my 14 year old son on his important life choices.
We have spent the last 14 years trying to teach him to think and act in a proper way and be self confident and self contained.
He has just reached the point of commiting himself to his subject chioces at school which will determine his future education.
The direction he has chosen points to a career in some form of engineering.
So what I am asking is, will the engineering option be a mountain to climb in years to come in view of the continued decline of the UK,s
manufacturing output or are there still plenty of opportunities for capable people?
Which aspect of engineering do you see will grow fastest in years to come?
He has already had a play on my Bridgeport an Harrison and was Ok doing the basics, do you think if I was to throw some cash at a
CAD/CAM, cnc setup it would be beneficial or should it be left until he has a couple more years on his back?
Your thoughts please
Regards
Dave

[Swarfing]

If you point him in the direction of CAD/ Cam and CNC then you might as well get him on the road to working for himself? You don't make money working for somebody else. Get him to understand the need to innovate, thats what this country is lacking. With no investment you will need to do it yourself so might as well get him going early.

This is the advice i'm giving my daughter and think she understands you can rely on nobody but yourself these days :-(

[Jo]

It all depends upon what you mean by "engineering", you seem to be talking about aspects of mechanical engineering, there are lots of other types. Systems Engineering is very much alive and well and a growth area, software engineering has been threatened by "fred in the shed writing code" but the essence of the engineering side of software is still a key skill. Then there are specialists areas including (racing) car , aircraft, ship, and engine design to name a few.

And don't expect him to continue in the same type of engineering for his life time, a good engineer will evolve and change their skills many times over their life time. For instance: I started as an electronic engineer, I then specialised in control engineering, software engineering, systems engineering and now do systems architecture. One of the great things about engineering is that it does not stand still and every day is a new adventure. The best bit is they pay you for it .

Jo

[Lew_Merrick_PE]

Dave,

Think on this:  Which is more important, learning to drive a particular piece of software or understanding the processes that software drives?  I started drafting with a ruling pen on linen.  (I had the kewlist psychedelic shirt in Everett (WA) in 1968 -- it was made from a ruined progressive die drawing!)  I have been using CAD tools since 1971.  I have been using CAM tools since 1973.  I have been using CAE tools since 1975.  In each case, my argument is that it is more important to understand the first principles than the software.

I see it all the time -- so-called engineers who do not know the first principles of their applications.  As of two years ago (i.e. the last time I checked) the ProEngineer/CREO CAD package insisted that there was a ø.200 (inch) drill size.  There are ø.199 and ø.201 drill sizes, but not a ø.200 drill bit size in standard inch-based drills!  I first bitched about this to Parametrics Technology in 1992!  I cannot tell you how many "engineers" with whom I have worked who consider such a complaint to be mere pedantics.

Learning CAD (or CAE or CAM) is merely a few weeks of applied misery.  Understanding the principles that underlie CAD (or CAE or CAM) is the work of a lifetime.  If one of the engineering disciplines is the direction your son (currently) wishes to pursue, then I would look to mathematics, physics, chemistry, and logic as the foundations that need to be laid.

[DaveH]

I don't know much really but one thing I do know is most of us do well at what we like doing. So I hope your son has chosen subjects he is good at and likes doing.
At fourteen I think he should be playing football, cricket with his mates or whatever,  his and your goal should be to get him into university and get a degree.
A degree will open all sorts of doors for him, then look at a career.

That's my 2cents
 
DaveH

[vtsteam]

I have similar questions about my daughter and her future. And she's only 6!

I believe that the most important thing to teach a child is how to love learning, itself. And how to feel capable and confident. And of course, teach them the classical school essentials.

I've worked at many jobs, both blue collar and white collar -- I've worked in the software industry and built CNC machines, done system control work professionally, but I think teaching hands-on capabilities first is much more important than teaching computer subjects. I'd rather my daughter learn to file well, and use a hacksaw and move on up to running machine tools (if mechanical engineering was her interest) Just as I believe that teaching math(s) is more important than teaching kids how to use a calculator. Well of course calculators are a thing of the past, it's cell phones now.

If a child has a love for learning, feels capable and confident, and has the important linguistic, social and mathematical, and physical training, I believe they will be well equipped for life. They have the tools to be the architects of their future, rather than the subjects of it. Things will change, they must be adaptable and must learn new things, even create new things, but they must master the basics to do that. And more than that, they must enjoy them. Enjoyment of learning is the most important thing you can teach a child. All other subjects follow.

Software, current software and computer hardware, will be as relevant ten years down the road, as this year's snow. Just a distant memory. Being able to write well, work out practical mathematical problems, build what they envision with their hands, with an awareness of history and the arts as well -- these are the real fundamentals for any direction they want to head in.

[David Jupp]

Process Engineering (aka Chemical Engineering) is yet another of the many 'flavours' of Engineering careers.  Materials Engineering/Science also springs to mind.

I have connections to the Process Industries - for the last few years there has been a huge effort to get youngsters interested in the industries in general, and the many flavours of Engineering and Science that are required to support them.  It is currently reckoned that the UK has a shortfall of many thousands of Engineers.  Salaries and the esteem afforded to Engineers have improved.

Whilst I agree about the value of a University degree, that isn't for everyone (and in the UK the costs have leapt astronomically in recent years) - thankfully apprenticeships have made a return (and some are very good).

If tempted to go down the CAD/CAM route - do not splash significant cash.  Much more would be learnt by building/converting a simple machine, besides many schools these days have CNC routers and laser cutters along with associated CAD in the Design Technology Department.

[DaveH]

It is difficult to know what the future holds, I'm pretty certain "the weather" will still be around. A good career is 'weather forecasting' on the TV - that, one can get completely wrong and one still has the job next day     
 
DaveH

[AussieJimG]

Social skills will always be the most important skills. Wherever he works and whatever he does, it will be in concert with others. Who he knows will always be at least as important as what he knows - not in the sense of having a patron but in having someone to bounce ideas to and to talk to.

That's what we are doing here. Some of us work in isolation (at least intellectually) but we gather on this and similar forums to exchange ideas and to obtain inspiration.

So my advice would be to encourage your son to get out and make friends and have fun. And to spend quality time in the workshop with his Dad of course, he will remember that all his life.

Jim

[minerva]

Dave,

As is the norm the thoughts and opinions of respected members of our forum have touched upon many specific aspects of this problem which predictably crops up with the passing of each successive generation and I can reassure you from personal experience it doesn't get any easier with the passing of time.
It would seem to me that a "two steps back" approach and a look at our countries recent history would go a long way at pointing us as a nation toward the right direction. In my youth (1950's) the country was rebuilding following WW11 but we as a nation were still proudly named the "Workshop of the World" and the accreditation "made in England" was its own mark of quality. jobs and training within the Engineering sector were readily available and the education system taught craft subjects which gave valuable life skills whether or not one was destined to life of engineering or manufacturing.

Sadly over the years our political leaders have seen fit to systematically dismantle most of the industries and infra-structure that supported the very fabric of our existence upon which our very quality of life depended only to replace it with a "live now pay later" culture which has generated the mountain of debt which underpins the problems that our nation faces today.
At this particular juncture the word "austerity" seems to be the buzz word of our leaders (accompanied by the usual "we are all in the same boat") and it comes in the form of a  cross we all have to bear and indeed if the current economic forecasts are to be believed will have to bear for several years to come.
I suspect it will take some really basic thinking and subsequently action on the part of our policy makers to address the current problems and expedite a return to a regime whereby we as a nation can once again take pride in producing quality goods thus generating tangible wealth for the benefit of all.
In order to accomplish this objective a re-assessment of values is required by all of us, no longer should the current celebrity culture prevail whereby a football player or pop star can command a higher salary than a design engineer.
Hope this doesn't seem too much of a rant but when all is said and done "bin there got the T shirt"
Regards Terry T

[ieezitin]

To the OP.
Children will always surpass in doing things what pleases, excites and interests them the most. If the world of engineering mechanical / electrical stimulates him it’s your job to open every door for him to explore and learn, Knowledge is power.
On the other hand continued academic education after secondary school striving for a degree is flawed in so many ways, for the pupil and the parents. My degree never earned me a penny but one particular skill given to me in my apprenticeship turned my working class beginnings into middle class life

My hands on skills were not the only factor to my success, it was my personality and willingness to work hard, so in today’s environment where kids are just lazy, attitude up, I am entitled too.., yo!! Tweet me babe blighters, it would serve him well to use this to his advantage by being clean, respectful, punctual with an attitude to excel and learn. The world will always need clever bright people, believe me it will behoove one if he is useful.

Minerva.
Novus ordo seclorum. Brush up on your Latin and you will figure out what I am getting at.
I left England 23 years ago because of the rapid decay of a once proud nation, only to find the proverbial greener grass was turning brown where I landed, Thanks to the afore mentioned.

Anthony.

[bp]

As others have said, there are so many fields of "engineering".  In one of my jobs we were encouraged to become experts in one field, then change fields!!
It seems that the important thing is to get a recognised qualification in whatever.  That may then be used to pry open a door to another field.
I think that the main thing is to have a desire/passion to be involved in something, and to learn new stuff.
best of luck!!
cheers
Bill