Meuser lathe rescued

[Trion]

A friend of mine has offered to give me his old lathe. If I don't want it, it will become nails, so I have said that I'll take it
It is a Meuser from 1951, I believe it is version M3. A tape measure revealed a maximum turning diameter of 480mm (without taking out the gap) and maximum length 1500mm, more than I'll ever need. It has two gearboxes, one six speed gearbox in the bottom of the housing and a two speed (some might call it a back gear) at the spindle, making a range of speeds from 18 to 820 rpm. The gearboxes are connected by four v-belts. The spindle has an eccentric cam which drives a oil pump to lubricate the spindle bearings. I have been told that the saddle also has a oil pump to lubricate its ways. The feed and threading gearbox is the most extensive I've ever seen, and it also has gears submerged in oil. No replacing of gears to go from metric to inch on this girl!
A few things not so good is that I have read that Meuser were very late on making hardened beds, which I'm quite sure this one doesn't have. The ways are pretty worn and many of the gib screws are broken. I noticed that the saddle rides on double V-ways instead of a single V and a flat way. Surely this must make it harder and more time consuming to scrape in the saddle, does anyone know why they have done it?


The machine still has its original badge, and wouldn't you know. Meuser is still in business, supplying spare parts for their machines (that is, if I can ever afford them )


Here's a view inside the headstock. To the right is the backgear, in the middle are the V-belts from the lower transmission. The lines are for the oiling system.


The feeding chart is extensive with increments of 0,01-0,02mm


The machine came with a end stop, which seems to be the only way of determining travel in the length direction. I have read somewhere that some Meuser machines had automatic disengagement of feed when they came to the end stop, but I am not sure if this one has.


The tailstock has what seems to be MT4 and a bit of wear. What I also noticed is that there is no means of measuring the travel on the tailstock quill


The machine comes with a 3-jaw chuck with only one set of jaws, plus a large 4-jaw


I need to make some more space in my shop before I get it in, so don't hold your breath.

Oh, some ask what I'm going to do with it? Hmm, clean it, maybe give it a coat of paint and use it to rough cut things that take too much time on the Slager lathe. If I ever learn scraping, this would seem like a machine built properly enough to deserve it.

By the way, any suggestions on getting hard old oil off from the machine are much appreciated

[BillTodd]

Looks like a very nicely made lathe

By the way, any suggestions on getting hard old oil off from the machine are much appreciated

I used a commercial degreaser on my HLV-H that is sold domestically as Elbow Grease All purpose Degreaser:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elbow-Grease-,All-purpose-Degreaser-%2fcleaner_W0QQitemZ360348970595QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=218901123687&rvr_id=218901123687&cguid=e44da7ac1200a0aad3756205ff4de910

It is water based and has a slight ammonia* smell (even with the lemon fragrance version) . It really works well, you just spray it on, leave it for a couple of minutes before wiping off 

(* obviously you should wear gloves, helmet, mask, armour, respirator and safety harness to comply with all health and safety rules ;) )

Bill

[BillTodd]

What I also noticed is that there is no means of measuring the travel on the tailstock quill

You need to write to Meuser and ask them to send you this one:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/meuser/img12.jpg

[Trion]

Thanks, and yes I believe it will be a good machine for the shop!

I will see if I can find any decent degreaser around here. I was thinking of washing the entire machine with a steamer, and then of course pull as much as possible apart, dry it and change oil in all gearboxes, finishing it of with some painting.

Haha, that tailstock is massive! I have actually written Meuser, they are still around and can supply both spare parts and an instruction manual

[BillTodd]

I was thinking of washing the entire machine with a steamer,

I wouldn't if I were you. Unless you are very careful, the steam cleaner will push water into every crevice, maybe even into the bearings.

From the pictures, all that lathe need is a good clean and perhaps a bit of touch-up paint. Get it up and running, get the lubrication sorted system out and make some test cuts - the lathe may still cut true enough for your purposes.

When you've got it clean take some good pictures and post then to Tony at lathes.co.uk so he can add them to the Meuser pages

Bill  - envious of that screw cutting gearbox

[Swarfing]

A womens tip that works, try some white vinegar, water and a drop of washing up liquid. Soak some towels in this and lay them all over the machine for about half an hour. Then using the same solution and clothe give it a good rub. you will be amassed what this can shift. make sure you rub down with dry towels to get rid of the moist stuff and there you go. Any stubborn stuff a quick rub with a nail brush. This will save the paint 

[AdeV]

A friend of mine has offered to give me his old lathe. If I don't want it, it will become nails, so I have said that I'll take it

Nice score Trion - and for the perfect price too! I have lathe envy (again!)...

I noticed that the saddle rides on double V-ways instead of a single V and a flat way. Surely this must make it harder and more time consuming to scrape in the saddle, does anyone know why they have done it?

I can't quite tell from the pictures but - check again; I think you might find that the saddle runs on one V-way & flat (front V & back flat); and the tailstock rides on the other V & flat. At least, that is how it works on my lathe, and the bed of yours looks very similar to the bed of mine.

I would agree with the others about not steam cleaning it... a sure-fire way to introduce rust...

Good luck!

[AdeV]

(* obviously you should wear gloves, helmet, mask, armour, respirator and safety harness to comply with all health and safety rules ;) )

You forgot to mention the steel toe-capped boots, leather apron, fishing waders, hi-vis jacket, and you must set cones out at least 5ft away from the work area, and sandwich boards with "hazmat" and "warning, slippery surface"....

Tsk, when will people take H&S seriously?

 

[bambuko]

I can't quite tell from the pictures but - check again; I think you might find that the saddle runs on one V-way & flat (front V & back flat); and the tailstock rides on the other V & flat. At least, that is how it works on my lathe, and the bed of yours looks very similar to the bed of mine...

You will find that on many larger/better lathes saddle would run on it's own two vees, with tailstock having yet another (it's own) vee.
So the arrangement is not uncommon (Meuser is one of them - see this pic)
Download and read this book - old, but very interesting  (if lathe design is your thing  )

Chris

[Trion]

Thanks for the reply guys! It makes sense what you are saying, I´ll leave the steam washer alone. I just recalled cleaning the little shaper was quite a bit of work, figured since the lathe is so much bigger i need something more efficient. I guess I´m just lazy
Will try the vinegar tip though

By the looks of the machine, I have prettymuch already decided to paint it. I don´t think it´s the original paint which is on it now anyways. I recently saw this picture of how nice a Meuser can become. After that there was no going back!


All of you are right, it makes more sense to test out the machine and see what it can do before getting on with any overhauling. Aspecially with still being a newb, I very quickly get tangled into things making them a larger matter than they really are.
Adev: I saw the machine with my own eyes, so I´m quite sure it was running on double V-ways. Had never seen it before that´s why I was curious.
bambuko: I looked through the book, very interesting indeed. I need some time to sit down and read it all. I prefer reading on paper instead of the computer, so I´ll have to make a trip to the University next week (they have free printing)

[AdeV]

I saw the machine with my own eyes, so I´m quite sure it was running on double V-ways. Had never seen it before that´s why I was curious.

Indeed - and Chris' pictures made it quite obvious in hindsight, I can now see the extra piece on the back of the saddle... so, you have 3 Vs & 1 flat I guess? Nice... I only get 2 of each...

[Trion]

Yup, 3 v's, but I'm probably never going to be able to notice a difference because of the v's, unless i learn scraping. Aligning double v ways sounds like a nightmare!

[dsquire]

Trion

A man of you determination, skill and patience will be able handle that job and obtain acceptable results when the time comes for it. You just have to do your research before you start just like you have done on other parts of your journey so far into the world of machines. It may be challenging but we know that you can do it. 

Cheers 

Don

[75Plus]

I have been watching Trion restore and repaint several machines now and have reached the conclusion that, in a previous life, he was a painter and a darned good one too.

Joe

[usn ret]

Trion,  I have used WD-40 with good results to clean shop equipment ie. a 25 year old Tiawan mill with a lot of old hard crud. No chance of rust and it softens the crud so that it can be wiped away.   Good luck..Cliff

[Trion]

Thanks for the kind words, I´m now really looking forward to get the machine!

usn ret: I have used WD 40 quite a lot too, but I must say it is a bit slow going for my patience to clean the entire machine with it. Plus I would have to degrease the machine before applying paint

[Trion]

Hi folks, it's been a while since I wrote about this.
I got the lathe late this summmer, but only yesterday could I find time to wire it up to get it running. All thanks to a nice electric scematic that Meuser provided in the instruction manual.

The machine runs quite nicely, no really bad noises or anything. And boy does it cut, the lack of rigidity and power in my little 12x36 has become really evident now. I am sure I will never go about turning down more than a few mm on the little lathe from now on, as yesterday the Meuser lathe just ripped through a 3mm deep cut in steel without as much as a noise. Feeds in both directions are working just fine, as well as the threading feed.

On to the other part, which probably is the reason I got it for scrap price, there is a significant amount of wear, aspecially on the bed close to the spindle. The bed is not hardened by the way. The shaft for feed (not threading) is bent, so when this is rotating while the saddle is close to the spindle, it actually lifts the saddle when the bent part is pointing upwards, and you can see the whole saddle move up and down a few mm! There also seems to be something wrong with the chuck, as I chucked up a piece of bar and it was running visibly out of centre. These hickups aside, I think it is going to be a good lathe for rough turning and removid loads of metal

By the way, the picture server I used to have is gone, so all my my post are   

[dsquire]

Trion

Good to hear from you again. I guess that it is both good and bad news with the lathe. Once you really get it checked over closely it may be worth fixing up.

It is too bad about losing your photo hosting service. Do you still have the photo's available on your hard drive that they could be hosted some where else or could be uploaded as attachments to the posts? If you still have the photos I would be willing to give you a hand with the editing to get them back on line again.

Cheers 

Don

[AndreasL]

Hepp!

Greate to hear from you again Trion.

Funny that I planed yesterday to ask the forum if anybody heard from you lately.

Looking forward to see more post from you. 

[Trion]

Thanks for the replies! I have some more checking of the lathe to do, but that has to wait a bit now. I am currently planning to build a insulated room in my otherwise freezing shop, to make machine work little more plesant

I still have all the photos on my computer nicely organized, it shouldn't be much work uploading the few ones I have posted here. I am much more concerned about the 2000 (!) picture rebuild thread of my car.  I apreciate your offer to help out though! 

Andreas, the world is full of coincidences, isn't it? Just like that good old Bridgeport CNC mill (decent one with full enclosure, flood coolant, 30 tool magazine and it was still able to interpolate circles for bearing fits) one of our suppliers had, which I had been drooling about for months. I was beginning to think about giving him a call to ask how she was doing, but I didn't do anything about it for 2-3 weeks. When I finally called I was told that it was given to the scrap dealer 3 days earlier because the main controller card had broke.

[Jonny]

It was a risk you knew about and accepted to be fair, regrinding done properly is not cheap and probably not worthwhile.
Theres scraping and theres scraping mainly used for decoration and holding oil. Precision stuff is thou or two over small areas.

Me i would use as is, maybe straighten out that lead screw and position the jaws in the chuck properly, chucks threaded on if not indexed wrong?
Users of those small chinese diy machines cannot comprehend the rigidity of machines like you now have.
Food for thought i could put a bigger cut on my old Harrison 140 single ph 1 1/2hp motor than current 3ph 3hp M300.
1/2" facing cut on 5 1/2" dia 6082 T6 http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL15/728921/1252422/14582043.jpg
Plus i miss the clutch.

Harrison and Colchester have imperial and metric switching at flick of a switch which i think started with the Colchester Triumph round head early 50's. I cant power anything larger than a 3hp else i would have had a 50" Triumpth last year.