Black smithing ... long for it !

[ksor]

I must have an avril and ess to do such things: 

http://kelds.weebly.com/smedning.html

OR maybe one of these induction-jigs can do it ! 

Does any of you use indunction to heat up the iron for black smithing ?

[PTsideshow]

I don't have one, but had an induction melter in an old centrifugal dental casting machine
the machine after the panels were removed

the crucible and melting coil

This is the electrical stuff including "THE TUBE"


The power coils if you will

About sums it up   
It was from the fifties, made in Italy and imported to the US for making dental items and casting small items for the jewelry trade. By the time it passed to my hands it was abused and the company didn't have the parts that were bad. They did have some other parts.
I have saved the tube and some of the other interesting parts, as a steampunkers was going to buy them. But he wanted to buy them for postage to send them to him. I didn't understand how that works 
I do have a friend in Fla, she has one that is imported from China and tweaked by the guy that sells them. Not cheap even for a small one, you can make your own heating coil shapes and forms. You do have to buy items to hook up the cooling water cooler Like a TIG welding cooler in addition to the heating unit.

And they do work as advertised heat the metal quickly and only the part you want to heat.

As you might already know they are very popular with knifers in the USA.
0ne of the DYI induction forge pages

Craig Hashimoto's installation documentation and videos

Craig Hashimoto's thread on IForgeIron (He's JDH Forge there):

Brent Finnegan's forge, adjustable work table, small crucibles (lots of videos):

A good article on what induction heating is:

Information (including 2 .pdf files) on coil design and fabrication:
Plus there are vid on utube up the wazoooooo

She loves hers by the way, no more sweating in the Fla summers when using her power hammer

[ksor]

  WAV - I will have such a monster !

An old blacksmith will surely say that the "interaction" between the steel and the coal in a normal ess is  THE "magic" - and here is no coal att all !

- is it just old superstition that there HAS to be coal involved OR do this induction process in fact miss "something" when we talk about blacksmithing ?

[PTsideshow]

Only thing about coal and blacksmithing is it has to be the kind that can be made into coke when burning in the forge. Soft coal/Bituminous coal not the hard shinning coal that is anthracite. 

[Fergus OMore]

Of course, that's the impression but it simply isn't true

My great grandfather, grandfather, father and two uncles were all blacksmiths. They used any coal that they could get their hands on.

But in another generation, blacksmiths used any sort of wood charcoal to make things like swords which were so good that they could be wrapped around inside a gentleman's top hat.

Do  read about the Sword Makers of Shotley Bridge. Oddly it mirrors the Japanese knife makers who also made steel from adding carbon into the softer iron by 'folding it' on the anvil.

[Jonny]

We used to buy coke for the forge.
Less smoke, lights up, burns better plus you can see what you are doing unless you bury it.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL15/728921/3960275/49395040.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL15/728921/3960275/49396649.jpg

Plus cheap to run, imagine the KW involved in electric heat generation.

Funny thing far above blacksmith levels, gaffers used to say use the forge to harden and temper springs, well i did but used the blow lamp over the coke wit job in, never had a breakage.

Have a look at damascus

[Fergus OMore]

I was writing about materials used in the hearth and the earliest records start in Genesis with 'Tubal Cain'.
If Jewish history is reasonably correct, there was no coal but only wood and brush would. There is some doubt about the Pillars of Solomons Temple but if the author was right, the smiths were not only capable of making small items with wood as source of heat  but did castings-- in the desert!

Whatever but the Egyptians could create metal musical instruments at the time of Tutankhamun. The evidence is there!

And so it goes to DaVinci who probably knew more than most of us but his armour was made- again with wood charcoal.

As for today or perhaps WW1, my father tempered leaf springs -using a wooden stick. gauging the temper with the smoke generated.

More recently, I visited the former copper mines of the Great Orme in North Wales and questioned how the copper was smelted etc.
I got the reply that the Romans did not use wood or coal but brushwood found locally.

I might well have lived on the Northumberland and Durham coal field for most of my 80 odd years but it was wood, wood, even for the first railways.

[PTsideshow]

Yes historically it was wood/charcoal but the original question was was about induction heating. He then added an old wives tail type statement

An old blacksmith will surely say that the "interaction" between the steel and the coal in a normal ess is  THE "magic" - and here is no coal att all !

- is it just old superstition that there HAS to be coal involved

The point being modern smiths that are using charcoal or coal will need to use the bituminous type or commonly called soft coal,as that is the only type that can be converted into coke. It is a matter of the cleanliness of of the coke fires, it last longer, and as stated less smoke. 
As for the casting of metals, In the Upper Michigan the Indians used fires built with wood it just takes more of it to accomplish the given casting.
What was at hand was used till something better came along. To increase the efficiency of forge, hearth for casting whether it was pig iron in dirt forms on the ground. Or the casting of objects.
The interaction he speaks of is the transfer of carbon form the fires of coke/charcoal to the surface of the iron being forged.

[ksor]

The reason why I asked this question is this:

I would love to do all the things a blacksmith do but I don't like to be black in my nose, respiratory tract and internal organs - that's why I thought this induction thing was the right tool for me - this way I could be a clean-smith instead 

BUT if the "coal" is essential to the process then I have to re-think my choice 

On the other hand - if the argument for using coal is based on tradion, religion or some other non scientific things - then I'll stick to "clean"-smith method for the fact that is IS more clean.

[PTsideshow]

If you are going to do forging and bending etc. many people use propane forges The bottled gas I don't know what it's called in your area.

Having spent  the better part of my adult life dealing with coal fired boilers, and handing coal with a shovel and wheelbarrow or buggy to feed the stokers. A good respirator would help, but the small amounts and little handling a smith generally does with the coal/coke/charcoal there would be little coal dust flying about.

Knowing numerous smiths that use only gas as the fuel of choice far out number the purist using coal. I will say that there are some that use coal only because it is abundant, cheaper, and easy to get in their location. And would and have used bottled gas when available.
anvilfire site
iforge site
The above two are filled with more info than one could even need. archives, links and listing of blacksmithing groups around the world. Anvil fire also has many plans and links to plans, and both have great sections on fuels.

some great free downloadable PDF on blacksmithing go towards the bottom of the page for the link, since copying the link never seems to work great stuff.

And don't forget using the search engines, as they will come up with sites dealing with forging from small to all the historical stuff.

I think the biggest reason the fuel is so varied today, is that the steel/iron is so much better and the variety is such that even with scrap or junkyard steel you can pick it for your intended purpose. And pretty much hit it on spot.
 

[ksor]

>> PTsideshow

OK - thx - I'll read the links !