Author Topic: Inside-Out Steam Engine (Read 27296 times)

cfellows · « **on:** November 02, 2011, 07:23:48 PM »

I ran across this video on youtube and was impressed with the way it runs and sounds. Also liked all the movement so thought I'd take a whack at making something similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4UrQFhxf7A

This is a drawing of what I have so far. Not complete, but gives you a good idea of what I'm aiming for.

So far I've got the flywheel turned and the 2 cylinders made. The latter are made from aluminum tubing, 1 1/16" OD x 15/16" ID. The flywheel is from Martin Models and is 5.5" diameter.

Chuck

saw · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2011, 08:16:29 PM »

This projet will be very fun to folow

sbwhart · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2011, 02:49:54 AM »

A very interesting engine Chuck, looking forward to the build.

Stew

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2011, 03:00:40 AM »

That's a very interesting engine, Chuck!

Should look very impressive, as a twin.

I'll be watching your progress........

David D

modeng200023 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2011, 03:37:52 AM »

That looks good Chuck.

John

madjackghengis · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2011, 01:30:21 PM »

I've got to say, Chuck, that is one of the more interesting engines I've ever seen, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how you reproduce it, and watch and listen to it run.

Cheers, mad jack

Jasonb · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2011, 03:44:34 PM »

Looks to be the same principal of one of Anthony Mounts models, the Bodmer's sliding Cylinder Engine, will be interesting to see how you tackle the valving.

You may find this build of the model useful
http://dampfundmehr.de/menu/bodmer

J

cfellows · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2011, 07:23:22 PM »

Thanks everyone.

The original engine shown in the video uses rotary valves in the crankshaft. In my engine, the valving will be operated by the cylinder. As it moves from one end to the other, it will push the piston and the hollow piston support shaft left and right to alternately connect one end and the other with the air supply coming up through the end supports. Although not shown, I will have to install stops on each end to limit the axial travel of the piston support shaft.

Here is a picture showing my current plan for the air supply and valve operation. I have some concerns about my ability to get the piston support shafts to move freely left and right and still seal well in the end supports. Have to see how that goes. My engine will be reversible, and, although it should be self starting, I'm guessing it will always start in the same direction it was last going.

Chuck

Doc · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2011, 08:44:06 PM »

I like this concept this should prove to be nice little engine and with 2 cylinders opposing each other it should be a good smooth runner.
Nice concept should be very interesting!

andyf · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2011, 09:36:32 PM »

I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

I may be wrong, but it looks like the cylinder may have more mass than the piston of a conventional engine of similar bore/stroke. Will that necessitate* a bigger flywheel to help it over TDC and BDC?

* that took a bit of spelling at 1.30am

Andy

cfellows · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2011, 12:33:00 AM »

I got some more work done on my engine yesterday and today. I've been working on the design as well as some house projects, so haven't spent much time in the shop lately. Hopefully I can start getting really serious about this engine.

Here is the engine base. It's a piece of aluminum about 8" long, 2.25" wide, and used to be about 3/8" thick. However, it had a bit of a bow in it, so I flattened both sides with a flycutter in my end mill. It's now about .335" thick, but it is nice and flat. I will probably cut down the length some.

Here are the cylinder assembly support blocks. I gang drilled the holes to make sure they were in as perfect alignment as I could get them. They are 2" wide, 1.375" tall, and 3/4" thick.

Here is a partial assembly of what I have so far. The cylinder support rods are 3/8" diameter. Probably could have gotten by with smaller rods, but didn't want to push it. I'm quite happy with the alignment and the fit of the cylinder support rods... nice, close sliding fit. We'll see if that's still the situation after I screw the end blocks to the base plate... :-\

Next, I will fasten the cylinder support blocks to the base plate. Once I get all the air passages and mounting holes drilled in the end blocks, I may mill them down some so they don't look so "blocky".

Chuck

sbwhart · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2011, 12:29:37 PM »

Good start Chuck

I'm watching this one closely

Stew

cfellows · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2011, 09:22:51 PM »

Thanks, Stew.

I did a bit of head scratching today, trying to figure out how lash up the base plate and two cylinder support blocks so I could drill and tap the holes to hold them together. In the end, I mixed up a little bit of 5 minute epoxy and spread a very thin layer on the bottom of each cylinder support block. I placed the two cylinder support rods in the end blocks then carefully positioned the assembly on the base plate getting everything squared up, aligned and the right positioning. Then I just let the epoxy harden. After about an hour, the epoxy was nice and firm and the cylinder support rods still slid freely back and forth in the support blocks. So far, so good. I had already laid out and drilled the holes in the base plate, so now, I flipped the assembly over and drilled the pilot holes into the support blocks. After enlarging the holes in the base plate, I tapped all 4 holes 6-32 7/8" deep. I put in the cap screws, snugged them down then tested the fit of the cylinder support rods again. Everything still slides freely.

I'm a little concerned that if I take the screws out, break the epoxy bond and scrape off the epoxy, it might throw off the alignment enough to make the rods bind, but, as long as I don't have to, I won't take it apart. For now, I feel like I got the hard parts done.

Chuck

modeng200023 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 16, 2011, 04:26:40 AM »

You could fit location pins Chuck. That would align the parts for reassembly.

John

cfellows · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2011, 02:50:07 PM »

Quote from: modeng200023 on November 16, 2011, 04:26:40 AM

You could fit location pins Chuck. That would align the parts for reassembly.

John

Yeah, I had thought of that. I'm more concerned about the blocks tipping every so slightly if I scrape the epoxy off. Might not be problem...

Chuck

cfellows · « **Reply #15 on:** November 16, 2011, 02:50:19 PM »

Today I completed work on the cylinder support rods. The first task was to cut the grooves in the end of each rod. The grooves allow passage of the air regardless of how the rod rotates. I used a 1/8" cutoff tool and cut the grooves .050" deep. I realized later that they really only needed to be about .030" deep but, what's done is done.

Next, I drilled the center holes, 1/8" diameter and 2.875" deep from each end. I was a little nervous about drilling that small a hole that deep, but it was uneventful. I backed the bit out about every 1/16" to clear the chips. I used a standard length bit to drill as far as I could, but had to use a longer bit to drill the last 1/2" or so. Yup, that's a 12" long x 1/8" drill bit I'm using there. I bought it at Home Depot and I did have to sharpen it before I could use it! Guess I'll have to break down and buy a set of extra long aircraft bits one of these days.

Here's a picture of both rods with all 4 center holes drilled.

Finally, I drilled the radial port holes in both ends and one on either side of the piston in the middle.

Before the engine is completed, I'll have to plug the ends of the center holes, probably with something resembling a rivet. I'm planning to just use Loctite.

Chuck

cfellows · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2011, 07:42:08 PM »

After lots of noodling, Thanksgiving, and seemingly endless honey-do items, I got back out in the shop today and made some chips. In fairness to SWMBO, I was kind of stuck on a couple of design issues so probably wouldn't have made much progress anyway! :-\

I decided to change the cylinder material from the thin walled aluminum to thicker walled brass. I was originally going to put screws through the side of the cylinder into the heads, but decided the convention method of screwing through the head into the end of the cylinder made more sense. So, I turned the brass cylinders from 1.125" brass rod. The heads are also turned from 1.125" brass rod. I will probably do some further shaping to the cylinder and perhaps the head at a later time.

I also made an aluminum crosshead guide that will fasten flat to the base. The crosshead will be comprised of either blocks or round rollers attached to the cylinder that fit into the slots in the guide.

Here are some pictures of the parts and partially assembled.

Chuck

NickG · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2011, 02:21:54 PM »

very cool Chuck, can't not watch this one!

cfellows · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2011, 09:43:27 PM »

Work has been slow on this engine, mostly because I've been working on design issues. I'm trying to come up with an engine that will look good with nice proportions and not look like a bunch of parts just bolted together. Consequently, it has been kind of tough.

I did build and fit the pistons, added the cross head bearings and the connecting rod bosses to the cylinders, and made a steel base to hold both the cylinder assembly and the flywheel assembly. I plan to weld milled angle iron around the steel bed-plate to form the base. The other hurdle before me is to design the flywheel support and bearing assemblies.

I'm also playing around with different flywheel designs.

Chuck

sbwhart · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2011, 03:18:26 AM »

Comming to gether real well chuck

like the flywheel

Quote

I'm trying to come up with an engine that will look good with nice proportions and not look like a bunch of parts just bolted together. Consequently, it has been kind of tough.

That's a tactic that will pay off in the long run, Chuck:- try cruising around the steam museum sites for inspiration some of those old engine had beautiful architectural detailing.

cfellows · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2011, 08:39:46 PM »

Thanks, Stew.

Got some more done today. I Finished making and mounting the flywheel support assembly. Here's a few pictures of everything assembled.

I feel like I'm in the home stretch now. Gotta finish the crank arms, connecting rod, and the external plumbing.

Chuck

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2011, 05:23:20 AM »

Quote from: cfellows on December 15, 2011, 09:43:27 PM

I've been working on design issues. I'm trying to come up with an engine that will look good with nice proportions and not look like a bunch of parts just bolted together. Consequently, it has been kind of tough.

Hi Chuck ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I think the engine looks very well balanced in its overall look , the flywheel with its slender spokes really dose it

and is far from "a bunch of parts just bolted together" . i think it will look even better when you add the milled angle iron around the base

Rob

sbwhart · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:51:19 AM »

Quote from: Rob.Wilson on December 17, 2011, 05:23:20 AM

Quote from: cfellows on December 15, 2011, 09:43:27 PM
I've been working on design issues. I'm trying to come up with an engine that will look good with nice proportions and not look like a bunch of parts just bolted together. Consequently, it has been kind of tough.

Hi Chuck ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I think the engine looks very well balanced in its overall look , the flywheel with its slender spokes really dose it and is far from "a bunch of parts just bolted together" . i think it will look even better when you add the milled angle iron around the base

Rob

Yes it does look well proportioned I like it a lot

Stew

NickG · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2011, 07:21:29 AM »

Looks great Chuck, love that flywheel

saw · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:06:26 AM »

Wow another super engine, another piece of art

DaveH · « **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2011, 10:23:50 AM »

Chuck,

That does look good.

DaveH

cfellows · « **Reply #26 on:** January 07, 2012, 11:11:12 PM »

Thanks, all, for the kind comments.

After a brief hiatus to work on my mill / drill and add DRO's on the x and y axes, I got back to work on my engine today. I finished up the two connecting rods. Here in the first picture you can see the fixture I made to hold each connecting rod for machining.

I first milled the edge of one side, then took out the screws, flipped the rod over and did the opposite side. After finishing the edges on both rods, I changed end mills to a 3/16" and milled the groove down the center of each side. Finally, I rounded the outside edge of the small end.

Here are the finished rods...

And an idea of what they will look like on the engine...

The whole process was a good exercise in using DRO's for positioning. Makes for much more precise locating than trying to machine up to scribed lines and marks.

I think I only need to make and install the crank arms to be able to test the engine. And of course I'll need to make a base for it sooner or later.

Chuck

NickG · « **Reply #27 on:** January 08, 2012, 03:08:46 AM »

This really is looking great, love the proportions of it as well as the theory behind it. I must admit, I've only just got around to looking how it works ... should be powerful and sound interesting as it'll have full bore pressure to the cylinder from TDC!

cfellows · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:51:33 AM »

Thanks, Nick.

Well, the good news is that I got the engine together enough to try running it...

The bad news, it doesn't run... at all. Doesn't even look like it's trying. I suspect there is too much binding and too many air leaks.

Chuck

saw · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2012, 10:27:44 AM »

Well isn't not always like this the word is adjustment

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #30 on:** January 10, 2012, 11:52:54 AM »

Don't bother trying to make it run, Chuck.

It looks perfect, just standing still!

David D

cfellows · « **Reply #31 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:27:41 PM »

Quote from: saw on January 10, 2012, 10:27:44 AM

Well isn't not always like this the word is adjustment

At this point I'm thinking about changing the whole valving arrangement to something more conventional.

Quote from: Stilldrillin on January 10, 2012, 11:52:54 AM

Don't bother trying to make it run, Chuck.

It looks perfect, just standing still!

David D

Thanks, David. Even though it will spend most of it's life on the shelf where I can look at it, I would still like to hear it run...

Chuck

John Hill · « **Reply #32 on:** January 10, 2012, 06:09:04 PM »

Hmmm, the cylinders appear to have a quite small diameter and the effective surface area of the pistons is further reduced by the cross section of the central bar so I think this would be a 'high pressure' engine.

I am sure you will get it running.

cfellows · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2012, 07:33:10 PM »

Thanks, John. The cylinder bore is 3/4" and the central rod is 3/8".

I did get the engine running! Here's a short video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFW1I0_33XM

Still got some air leaks to fix but I know where they are and how to fix them. Also gotta build the base.

Chuck

saw · « **Reply #34 on:** January 14, 2012, 06:08:34 AM »

YES beautifully, you made it

CONGRATT

DaveH · « **Reply #35 on:** January 14, 2012, 06:17:51 AM »

Chuck,

Well it seems to run very nicely

Really looks good

DaveH

sbwhart · « **Reply #36 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:33:09 AM »

Champion Job Chuck

runs real smooth.

Stew

Bernd · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2012, 08:11:14 AM »

Have to say Chuck that's an interesting steam(?) engine to watch run. Nice job.

Bernd

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2012, 08:15:10 AM »

Well done Chuck!

It can only improve from here on......

David D

Divided he ad · « **Reply #39 on:** January 14, 2012, 09:17:35 AM »

I would appear to have completely missed this thread Chuck

Brilliant variation on the theme

Looks great running too. Didn't quite understand how it'd valve properly till I saw the video.

While reading this whole thread I came up with a different valve arrangement to yours and the original.... Maybe not as neat as yours but it might work? CoC to be sketched to figure it out?

Anyway, I'm wandering off....

Very neat looking engine and should be a belter once it's leaks are sealed and mounted on a nice base

Ralph.

Henning · « **Reply #40 on:** January 14, 2012, 01:10:44 PM »

THAT is a very nice job indeed! Great work!

NickG · « **Reply #41 on:** January 15, 2012, 02:58:12 AM »

Nice work Chuck, like the motion and sound ... it makes it a bit different when there's a mechanical impact in the valve mechanism, i've got a flame licker like that!

Why wouldn't it run the first time out of interest?

cfellows · « **Reply #42 on:** January 16, 2012, 01:14:33 PM »

Quote from: NickG on January 15, 2012, 02:58:12 AM

Nice work Chuck, like the motion and sound ... it makes it a bit different when there's a mechanical impact in the valve mechanism, i've got a flame licker like that!

Why wouldn't it run the first time out of interest?

Thanks, Nick. The proble was some binding and massive air leaks in the inlet air supply. Had to completely redo them. I've got one more air leak to fix then I'll post another video and some pictures.

Chuck

cfellows · « **Reply #43 on:** January 16, 2012, 02:45:32 PM »

Sometimes I look at a part I've just made and have a "What the H*LL were you thinking"!

This is the sliding rod that the piston is fixed to and the cylinder slides on. The two radial holes are the ports which admit the compressed air into the cylinder. The piston is solidly fixed to rod right between the two holes.

I had originally planned to fasten the piston to the rod with a set screw. So, I milled a flat in the rod as a seat for the set screw. Unfortunately, I milled it too wide, connecting the two holes and providing a convenient passage for air to transfer from one side of the piston to the other.

So, what you see here is what is my final fix to air leaks in the form of a dollop of soft solder which I'll file and sand to the OD of the rod before re-attaching the piston. By the way, I abandoned the idea of set screws in favor of loctite 620 (love that stuff).

I'd like to think I learned a lesson here, but I'll probably wind up doing something else equally as obtuse in the future!!!

Chuck

cfellows · « **Reply #44 on:** January 18, 2012, 07:38:17 PM »

After a few trials and tribulations I'm considering this engine finished. The final piece was the birds eye maple base. Went down to my local Woodcraft store and found a little piece 24" long x 4" wide by 7/8" thick (small in size, big in price - $22.00).

Here's the glamour shot...

Here's the remainder of the pictures, the video is at the bottom...

And the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Ku5yF4EsM&list=UUZB8pRNp9Plbd0-T9RmyR9g&index=1&feature=plcp

Chuck

rleete · « **Reply #45 on:** January 18, 2012, 08:18:41 PM »

Quite the mover & shaker, isn't it? Sounds nice.

saw · « **Reply #46 on:** January 19, 2012, 04:39:23 AM »

Nice work

Divided he ad · « **Reply #47 on:** January 19, 2012, 05:01:44 AM »

Top job Chuck

Looks the business on the base too

When you turned it up I couldn't help but think in a Scotty from star trek kind of way "she's gonna blow captain!"

The valving works really well and gives this engine a very distinctive sound.

Ralph.

andyf · « **Reply #48 on:** January 19, 2012, 06:46:27 AM »

Just watch her go

And to think that a week ago you despaired of getting her to run at all!

I really love the deceptively simple look of the engine. If you hadn't explained how it worked, I could never have worked it out from the pics and videos of the finished job.

Andy

Bernd · « **Reply #49 on:** January 19, 2012, 09:11:36 AM »

Nice work Chuck.

Engine sounds great.

Obviously not a fast runner.

Bernd

NickG · « **Reply #50 on:** January 19, 2012, 01:09:03 PM »

Superb!

doubleboost · « **Reply #51 on:** January 19, 2012, 06:33:38 PM »

Hi
Chuck
Nice to see the engine running

For me the con rods make it look great

John

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #52 on:** January 20, 2012, 03:35:58 AM »

Well done Chuck!

Interesting build, with a great outcome.......

David D

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Author Topic: Inside-Out Steam Engine (Read 27296 times)

Rob.Wilson