Building a shop

[ChriX]

Thought I'd post up some photos of my current project - building a new workshop. Hopefully you guys will be able to give me some pointers along the way. It is going to be an 'r' shape as you will see from the photos, with small part for a machine shop and the long part for woodworking with space to get a car in when necessary (for servicing etc.). The outside area will be an idea space for playing with stationary engines and messy jobs. By my very rough calculations I think the final floor space should be a touch over 500 sqft.

Anyway here are some photos:

This (unfortunately) is the earliest photo I have. Up to this point we have cleared a lot of overgrown weeds, and pulled down an old stable and lifted the concrete floor underneath it.


The concrete broken up in to more managable chunks to be moved away.


A view of the right hand side area.


Another right hand side view with the beginnings of some footings.


That's it for now. I'd like to get your views on if the machine tools should be partitioned off from the woodworking section? It seems like wood dust and oily tools would end up in a right mess to me, but I am a long way off having to make the decision.

[andyf]

I'd go for a partition. I have recently been shaping some hardwood on my milling machine, having wiped the oil off every exposed surface as best I could, but it was still covered in dust right up to to the top of the spindle head. If you start using power saws, routers etc in the same space as your nicely oiled metalworking machines, the wood dust will stick to them like sh1t to a blanket.

A stud partition clad in chipboard makes it easy to hang things up.

Andy

[DaveH]

ChriX,

You have a big job going on there.
Will be nice to watch the progress.
 
DaveH

[Brass_Machine]

I love watching shops get built. 

Andy has a good idea, Partition it if you can. That brown stuff is nasty. 

You can never have too many power plugs or lights.

What are you doing for flooring? Heat/ac?

Eric

 

[ChriX]

Thanks for the replies! I sketched out the following (sorry for the poor quality, was not near a camera/scanner so used a webcam).



We may leave out the foam insulation under the floor. I am also unsure how many membranes/vapour barriers I need for the walls - does what I have make sense? I've got one between the outer cladding and insulation and then another between the insulation and inner cladding, which may not be necessary?

I am hoping to get away with minimal electric heating, just one of those oil filled radiators I expect, but we also have an old woodburner to go in to make things nice and cosy occasionally during the winter.

This makes things much easier... 

[Davo J]

I also like threads like this and will be watching with interest.
Looks like you have put a lot of work in already.

Dave

[HS93]

one tip , the slab should be free floating in that you also put 25mm of expanded polystyrene up to skirting level , so the slab is fully wrapped bottom and ends in polystyrene.

Peter

[Marauder]

When i had prepared the ground ready for the concrete slab,Some one told me to have fiberglass material added to the mix as it strengthens up the slab so i phoned the company and they said yea no problem it will cost a little more so i had it added,,Just a thought when you order the concrete ask how much for the fiberglass material to be added.

[Davo J]

Don't forget you can get colour added if you want as well. It's available over here, so you should be able to get it over their. It will save on paint if you are thinking of going that way, but much cheaper.

My floor was finished with a helicopter type finishing machine which leaves a smooth finish. It is a lot easier to sweep than the standard float finished floor and machinery etc, will roll around easier as well.
Mine has been down for 30+ years and is still in great shape.

Even if you have to pay someone to come around with a machine to do it, it is worth it and you wont regret it. When it's wet it's not slippery like paint. You can still do all the form work, pour and screed, etc yourself, and he just runs the machine over when the concrete has gone off a bit.

Dave

[ChriX]

Thanks for the tips. I will definitely get fibreglass in the mix. I have an offer from someone who has done a lot of fine-finished slabs to help out so will be OK I think, but I may get a quote from a power-finish guy as well. We have decided to drop the floor insulation and just have mats/floor covering where necessary to keep the feet warm.

Could someone take a look at my wall diagram and give me some feedback? Not really sure about the membranes/insulation combo and what order things should go in.

In the meantime here are some more photos:

[Jasonb]

Could someone take a look at my wall diagram and give me some feedback? Not really sure about the membranes/insulation combo and what order things should go in.

You show horizontal weather boarding in which case your battens should be vertical.

Breathable membrain on outside of studwork is fine.

Use the cavity bats in the wall not the lighter rockwool on a roll thats used in lofts etc. If you can afford the extra then kingspan or celotex will give better insulation.

Some say that you don't need a vapour barrier if using plywood but for the little extra cost of a roll of polythene and a few staples I would always fit it and then you have no risk of interstitual condensation withing the insulation. If using celotex then you can tape the joints with foil tape insted of fitting a vapour barrier.

Oh and add a sheet of reinforcing mesh into the slab even with the fibres.

Jason

[Miner]

ChriX,
I operate excavators for a living and have done foundation work. You don't want to disturb the ground under where your footings are going with the bucket teeth. Use the flat bottom of the bucket and the bottom of your footings trench should be flat and level. Remove ALL of the loose material from that trench and especially the darker topsoil looking material. If you have to go back in and redig those trenches to get undisturbed and a flat and level surface for the concrete then you need to do so. Without that your footings will crack. I'm 100% positive of that.

Pete

[ChriX]

Thanks Jason & Pete - all a great help.

Jason when you say reinforcing mesh - do you mean rebar? This stuff? http://buildingmaterials.co.uk/Rebar/Rebar-Mesh.html

[Miner]

ChriX,
Your welcome, But I may have made a bunch more work for you. It's too bad I hadn't seen your first postings. One further thought you may not like. Since it's going to be a shop your going to have heavy objects that the floor needs to support. The material inside your footings needs the same approach too. Any rubble ect needs to come out and down to undisturbed non topsoil type ground. Generally a crushed sand and gravel mix is brought in then mechanicly compacted after the footings are cured. Then the poured concrete floor sits on that. Even with rebar, metal screen, fiberglass ect in the concrete, It needs a firm, stable base to prevent cracks. That's the problem with concrete work, You only have one shot at doing it right so you don't have problems later. If you think you need any other info I can provide, Then feel free to PM me. I certainly don't know everything about concrete work but I know enough for your job.

Pete

[Jasonb]

Yes A142 mesh placed mid way through teh slab will be fine.

As Pete says you don't need the hardcore in the bottom of the trench, just good solid sub soil. If it were a building subject to building regs the building inspector would likely make you dig it out, even if you get a bit of rain in a trench they will want all the wet soil ccraped back to firm before you pour the concrete.

The reason for no hardcore is that even if well compacted there will be voids and over time the soil will find its way into these voids causing the footings to settle. Its not so bad on a slab as the loading is over a much larger area but again just throwing in a load of old bricks is not the way to do the hardcore, wants to be crushed conc/brick and well compacted with a whacker plate. Having said that if its just a mini lateh you have then it will be OK, maybe not so with a couple of ton of DS&G.

Jason

[ChriX]

Pete we gave all the trenches a good clear out of the loose material. A good portion of it had a really solid base - the machine wouldn't go through it anymore. The rest was reasonably good but we had to compact it down by hand.

It was dry when we started pouring but then there was a massive downpour followed by continuous rain on top of the concrete - everyone got soaked. We had to wait probably 4-5 hours before we could float it to get an even surface on top.

Here are some photos from the morning after:



Next comes the digging out to remove all the loose debris before laying down the hardcore. I am tempted to buy a used wacker plate then just resell it afterwards - the hire cost makes up quite a large percentage of the cost of the unit.

[Miner]

ChriX,
I'm a little late responding, (home renos) It looks to me you did well. You got the concrete in before the rain so it should be fine. Careful when your digging out the material in the center. Cured concrete has very little strength if you tap it with a bucket. Green concrete like you'll have is really weak. Dig alongside your footings and let the material that's tight to the footings fall into where your digging. Better to take 4 hours longer than risk breaking all your hard work.

Pete.

[ChriX]

A block delivery.


Then some of them laid.


Pete thanks for the advice but we are digging the centre out by hand so no danger of disturbing the footings with the bucket. This has actually been done now, I am slightly behind with my photos. I have a compactor plate coming on Friday, so hope to have the area ready for the floor by the end of the weekend, but the pour won't be for another week or two yet.

[Miner]

ChriX,
  It's looking good. You'll never look at a concrete floor the same way again. It's FAR more work than most people realise. That's going to be a nice sized shop.

Pete

[buffalow bill]

ChriX,
 Hi have just found the log it’s looking good. 
 Hope I’ve got you in time, just a couple of small questions/pointers. Are you installing any water, drains, electric. Any service you are going to install, the sooner you can make provision the better. Even if at this stage it is only a 4” or 6” duct rising above floor level from outside the founds, it will be a lot easier/quicker later.


Bill

[ChriX]

Hi Bill - thanks for the advice. Wasn't planning on any water/drains but I will see if I can put a duct in for future use.

While I am here can anyone advise where I can get some 50mm rebar mesh spacers/supports at short notice? Next day delivery a requirement. I am a bit behind with the photos but the floor pour is looking like this Saturday.

[ibuildstuff4u]

Are you looking to use the spacers to hold up the rebar in the concrete?  If so they aren't really needed as long as your rebar is tied together you can just pull it up while pouring the concrete.  I have seen people use bricks snapped in half as spacers too, but personally I think that this causes a week spot in the concrete.

Good luck with the pour!

Dale P.

[ChriX]

Time for a catch up with the photos I reckon.

Hardcore going in before compaction:


View of the large pile of ballast to be compacted in on top of the hardcore:


DPM & Steel in place and ready:




Some hard work later...




 

[andyf]

Great stuff, Chris. Must have been hot work, if you are having weather like ours near Manchester.

Andy

[Rob.Wilson]

Talk about starting from the ground up 

Rob