Author Topic: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock (Read 164896 times)

kvom · « **Reply #225 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:02:21 PM »

You can take it to a jeweler and have the brass plated with gold. Assumes you disassemble.

raynerd · « **Reply #226 on:** November 27, 2011, 06:58:47 AM »

Yes, that is a really good idea. How will the steel pins be affected?

kvom · « **Reply #227 on:** November 27, 2011, 08:58:13 AM »

I think the pins might need to be removed, but possibly not. The plating is very, very thin (microns). If that isn't practical then do just the parts that can be detached with screws. The pin wheel can be left alone or lacquered.

raynerd · « **Reply #228 on:** November 30, 2011, 10:43:20 AM »

Could you guys please give me your opinion...the more the merrier!

Based on what Kvom said in his last message, I visited a chap who does gold plating this morning. I discussed the pin wheel and he said that to get a good finish then it would need a good finish in the first place. He quoted me for the wheel which was just a little less than expected. I then asked for a quote on the 2 wheels and daisy wheel which was also less than I expected. I had some discussion with him and metioned it would be nice to get the whole thing done and he gave me a quote only just a little over double what he had quoted for the 4 parts!! Infact, his quote for the whole lot was only a little more than what I`d have expected to pay for the large back plate alone!

I`m very serious about considering getting this done. I`m just worried it`ll look a bit OTT but my intention is to take the brass to high polish. Taking him up on the offer means the finish will not tarnish and be a hell of a lot quicker than me trying to finish the brass of each piece.

Do you think it would look OK all gold plated? I`m very tempted at the price offered.

Chris

millwright · « **Reply #229 on:** November 30, 2011, 11:03:47 AM »

Chris,
the only comment i would make here is that the finish before plating needs to be perfect, the slightest marks will show through. i cant remember the quoted thickness of gold plating but is is thin You cant polish any marks out once its done, and those marks will look worse after plating. for a perfect plating you need a perfect finish. Ive spent hours polishing small parts to have gold plated, then had to polish it off and start all over again. John

NickG · « **Reply #230 on:** December 02, 2011, 05:11:57 PM »

Chris, yeah millwright makes a very good point. I didn't realise this either, but apparently even for chrome plating (which is probably much much thicker) you still need an excellent finish, otherwise all machining marks or even small scratches come through. I often wonder just looking around the house, how do they get such a finish on things like taps before they chrome plate them? Surely can't be done by hand!

raynerd · « **Reply #231 on:** December 08, 2011, 04:15:27 PM »

Hello Chaps

Thanks for your comments. Nick, very sorry I didn`t see your message until now!

I have just updated my gold plating thread on the finishing forum and I am all set for gold plating my clock parts. So i`ll be stripping, polishing and plating soon...pictures to follow.

BUT bigger news is that my case was finished and I collected it yesterday!! A local clockmaker and cabinet maker kindly did the work for me for not much more than the wood cost and I am just blown away with it. He has been giving me advice for the last 6 months and it was great of him to offer to help me out.

It is made from solid oak and the back is made from ash. It is 10" wide and only 3" deep, being about 5 foot high. It is made to be mounted like a synchronome case, about 1 foot off the floor on the wall. I had to get the glass cut today and I fitted it into the door, taking the photos earlier tonight. I couldn`t have dreamed for a nicer case in terms of wood colour, design or quality!

I`ll take some more photos in the next week when the clock is mounted on the wall....

millwright · « **Reply #232 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:38:03 PM »

Nice looking case Chris, its going to look good when its all installed, If you have had that made for not much more than the price of the timber you have got a bargain by the looks of it.
john

sbwhart · « **Reply #233 on:** December 09, 2011, 02:17:10 AM »

Wow that's one nice case

Stew

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #234 on:** December 09, 2011, 02:21:03 AM »

Some nice looking woodwork there, Chris!

David D

spuddevans · « **Reply #235 on:** December 09, 2011, 02:41:00 AM »

That looks mighty fine there Chris

Can't wait to see the clock installed in it.

Tim

raynerd · « **Reply #236 on:** December 09, 2011, 11:01:11 AM »

Yes, thanks guys! He basically did it for the wood plus it bit extra with a bottle of red wine thrown into the mix! I just wish I had the skill - not only is he a clock maker but his woodworking skills are second to none.

The clock was fully dissassembled last night so it will be cleaned and some of the parts plated like the d(W5).

I`ll keep you up to date and thanks for taking the time to post. I`m very excited about it!!

NickG · « **Reply #237 on:** December 10, 2011, 02:21:04 PM »

Brilliant Chris, can't wait to see the finished thing, it's going to be a fantastic piece of furniture and a family heirloom for sure

raynerd · « **Reply #238 on:** December 11, 2011, 06:04:29 AM »

I don`t know if this one will be good enough for a family heirloom but it would be lovely to think of it as such.

Can I ask for a little more advice please:

I`m absolutely bricking myself now as at some point in the next week I`ll have to drill holes in the back board of this lovely case to both mount it to the wall and mount the clock brass back plate to the backboard of the clock case.

How would you guys mount the brass clock plate to the case back? There is a lot of weight on it with both the weights and the pendulum hanging from it. The safest way would be to drill through the case back and then mount bolts through the entire lot - obviously tastefully done so the screw heads are looking nice on the plate front. BUT if I do that, then the nuts will be on the back and ideally I wanted to mount it flush to the wall. The synchronome I have is mounted in the same way but then has battons on the back pulling the clock off the wall by about 10mm which gives room for the nuts. I don`t think the case back is thick enough to countersink for the nuts....have I any other options?

spuddevans · « **Reply #239 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:44:27 AM »

What I would be inclined to do is, instead of using nuts on the back of the case, make up a backing plate out of, say 4-5mm thick steel, then drill and tap holes in the backing plate so as to spread the load over a larger area of the (wooden) back of the case.

Then just mount the clock with bolts/screws through the wooden back, screwed into the backing plate, then cut the threads flush with the backing plate (maybe then remove them and file off another 0.5-1mm of thread to make sure they are not protruding to mark the wall)

In fact, you could then use the backing plate to "hang" the clock on the wall by just adding a keyhole suitable for hanging on a screw in your wall. That would mean that the only holes drilled in the wooden back will be the ones mounting the clock mechanism to the backplate.

Just a couple of random thoughts induced by the combination of an infection and various "man-flu" remedies

Tim

Doc · « **Reply #240 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:56:36 AM »

Chris,
I'm not into clock work so I missed this thread but today I took some time to take a look and I must say I was set back. You have done some beautiful work!!! I am just blown away by it to say the least GOOD JOB !!

raynerd · « **Reply #241 on:** December 14, 2011, 06:47:20 PM »

Cheers Doc

Tim, sorry it has taken so long to reply!

I didn`t consider a backing plate. In some of the earlier pictures, you can see that the clock back plate has 3 screws, 2 at the top and 1 at the bottom. My current plan is to drill and tap some 1/4" steel plate as you suggested with two threaded holes matching the clock plate. I`ll then clearence drill the clock case and using the 1/4" steel plate, use this to clamp up the backplate to the case back. I can cut another square piece of 1/4" steel as an over sized nut for the single lower screw to hold it solid.

Screwing to the wall I was planning to do as I had done with my synchronome and drill directly into my solid wall but hide the two screws up in the top left and right of the case which will be covered by the arch of the door. IF I require it, I could put another nicer screw in the bottom middle but I don`t think it`ll need it!

However, do you think it would be stable enough to hang the entire case on the steel plate/strip? I do see that I could countersink the steel plate, make it slightly longer and then screw the clock through the case onto the backing plate strip already on the wall...this would however mean that ALL the weight of the clock and case would be on the two 6mm screws going through the clock backing plate!!

Chris

spuddevans · « **Reply #242 on:** December 15, 2011, 03:00:31 AM »

Which weighs more, the clock(including the weight/s) or the wooden case? I've been assuming that the clock is heavier.

I would be more confident of using a backplate that all 3 screw's attach to, then all the mechanism's weight will be transferred evenly to the backplate, thereby introducing (hopefully) no additional stresses that might change the timing of the clock.

Another thing to be careful of, it sounds that you are wanting to fix the backing plate to the wall? Have you thought what would happen if the bottom of the case is pushed to one side (maybe knocked by accident by a family member) if the top of the case is fixed firmly to the wall? It sounds like it could lead to potential cracking or breaking of the case, made more likely by the length of the case.

Would it be better to have the backing plate able to pivot on a single fixing, such as a screw in the wall that the backing plate is hanging on using a keyhole milled into the backing plate? Then if the case is pushed/knocked it can move without causing any damage to the case or clock.

Tim

raynerd · « **Reply #243 on:** December 15, 2011, 03:55:41 AM »

Hi Tim, thanks for your continued interest.

The clock case is solid oak with a just short of 1/2" thick back of ash so the case is pretty heavy. That being said, the brass of the clock and a weight of 1.5kg along with a similar weight pendulum - expect the two are not far apart in weight!

I understand your thoughts about a plate to hold all three screws and agree this would be a better option so I`ll go for this.

Your thoughts about the clock being knocked are interesting. The clock does have a hanger on the back of the case:

I was told NOT to use this to support the clock by the maker of the case and just use it for initial fixing....if I`m being honest, I don`t really understand the function of it.
The problem with suspending it from one screw or two screws but on a keyway incase they are knocked, other than my concerns about weight, would be that with the off centre pendulum, it will rock the case and clock and effect the time keeping. If my Synchronome was not screwed to the wall, with a block of 3" dia by 8" still sat at the bottom, it would rock from side to side! This clock I expect wouldn`t be as bad but my thoughts are still that it would need to be solid to the wall. Perhaps a blued screw neatly in the centre behind the pendulum would be needed to support the bottom if knocked?

Chris

spuddevans · « **Reply #244 on:** December 15, 2011, 06:04:31 AM »

Quote from: craynerd on December 15, 2011, 03:55:41 AM

The clock case is solid oak with a just short of 1/2" thick back of ash so the case is pretty heavy. That being said, the brass of the clock and a weight of 1.5kg along with a similar weight pendulum - expect the two are not far apart in weight!

That is a pretty heavy case!! Just as a side note, and you are probably well aware of this, but any fixing holes drilled through the back would need to be made larger than the screws going through to allow for seasonable changes in the wood as it expands and contracts across the grain (it also moves along the grain, but much much less than across the grain) it would be such a shame to have the back split because of not having the freedom to move.

Quote

I was told NOT to use this to support the clock by the maker of the case and just use it for initial fixing....if I`m being honest, I don`t really understand the function of it.

He probably added it without much thought, then realised afterwards that it wouldn't be suitable for taking the weight of both clock and case.

Quote

The problem with suspending it from one screw or two screws but on a keyway incase they are knocked, other than my concerns about weight, would be that with the off centre pendulum, it will rock the case and clock and effect the time keeping. If my Synchronome was not screwed to the wall, with a block of 3" dia by 8" still sat at the bottom, it would rock from side to side!

I had forgotten about the pendulum being off-centre

I still wonder if it would rock the case, maybe it would if the bottom of the case was hanging free from the wall, But surely the weight of both the clock and case hanging on a single pivot (ie a screw in the wall into a keyhole in the backing plate ) would not just hang free from the wall. It will rest the bottom of the case against the wall too, wouldn't it? You could even add a couple of rubber feet to the back of the base of the case to both prevent marking of the wall, and to provide grip against the wall from any rocking motion being transferred from the pendulum.

I would be tempted to try this 1st, as milling a keyhole in the back of the backing-plate would not take much effort, and if it works out ok and doesn't rock then you are set. If it proves not to be enough to stop any rocking of the case, then your suggestion below sounds a good one

Quote

This clock I expect wouldn`t be as bad but my thoughts are still that it would need to be solid to the wall. Perhaps a blued screw neatly in the centre behind the pendulum would be needed to support the bottom if knocked?

Chris

andyf · « **Reply #245 on:** December 15, 2011, 09:59:03 AM »

As an alternative to nuts at the back, could you use woodworker's tee nuts like these?
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=RL12TqJDjw8xgDMndXPsf0bFp5QhqJndngBSJ8yqQTHftn51JgDy!11161809?fh_search=tee+nuts

If the link doesn't work, google Screwfix and search for Tee nuts.

Andy

kvom · « **Reply #246 on:** December 15, 2011, 03:10:14 PM »

My preference would be a French cleat.

raynerd · « **Reply #247 on:** December 20, 2011, 06:52:54 PM »

OK, well I managed to get the clock up and running and on the wall. I spent hours yesterday evening making two nicer looking pulleys for weight and jockey weight and then screwed them both up in one fail swoop!!! Not best pleased

So I thought sod it, and rigged it all up with the old terrible looking pulleys for the time being. I`ll try and remake the pulleys and weights between Christmas and new year and then it`ll be truely complete.

You`ll notice, hopefully, that it has all been gold plated and in my opinion looks great for it. I`m never very pleased with my work and I must say this looks smashing and it is so difficult to get a good picture of it! The gold is so well polished and reflective that I just get glare but then with such dull winter days, I still need a flash! Anyway, I think you`ll get the idea.

Here goes...hope you like it.

Clock mounted on the wall without weights and pulleys

I`ve just finished making two brass countersunk washers to replace the large ugly steel washers but I took the picture earlier today:

I think this shows off the gold plating the best! I`m very please with it and a good skill to have learnt and the kit wasn`t much more than I`d have paid to have it plated by someone else.

So things to do/finish:

1. Fit the new brass washers.
2. Blue some of the screws and find some M4 screws that can be blued!
3. Make new pulleys for the weights.
4. Get the new dial numbered.

Feels good to have it on the wall and running!

Thanks to everyone who has replied on this thread to give help or encouragement.

Chris

raynerd · « **Reply #248 on:** December 20, 2011, 07:00:33 PM »

Quick video here but the aspect ratio is wrong as I turned the video clip by 90deg which seems to have mucked things up in windows movie maker! It all looks wider than it is!!

ieezitin · « **Reply #249 on:** December 20, 2011, 07:13:22 PM »

Chris
I have been watching the build and not posted. So I just want to let you know what a terrific job you have done on this clock. That looks mighty fine it looks refined and well placed where it resides. Great piece of work and you should be proud. In years to come when strangers enter your home and comment on the clock let your wife gently say you made it. Use it as a bench mark for your future projects since its in eyeball view.

All the best Anthony

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Author Topic: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock (Read 164896 times)