Angle thingy....plate....

[Darren]

As some of you will know I've had a few new things of late and one thing I wanted to try out was the Mig Welder. I didn't want to just weld up some scrap to test it properly so I decided I'd better make something.

One thing I do not have at the mo is an angle plate, and at the same time a good machine vice. OK this project isn't going to make a machine vice, but it will help to hold things down solidly.

So we need an angle, this looks tough enough, just ! It's 10mm steel.

PS, that white stuff on the shaper is just a cleaning agent.....

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Cutting it down to size on my newly acquired old bandsaw,

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

To make this square I need to machine it, so how about bolting it directly to the shaper?

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

I need to find the centers of the fixing bolts. The easy way is to measure the bolt diameter, note this (3/8 in this case) and zero the scale. Then you measure the outside distance between the bolts, but by first subtracting the diameter of one bolt by previously zeroing the scales, the reading will be equal to the center measurement of both bolts.
Easy and didn't have to do any maths either...

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

So we have a measurement of almost 4.5", since I want some play I will make the mounting slots slightly wider, so 4.5" is near enough.
Mark up the work and mill some slots on the miller.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Fits too.....

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Ok, so far so good. But, even though this angle is reasonably thick it's going to need some support webs if it's going to be any real use and not vibrate.
So back off to the bandsaw to cut some webs..

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

(over 10 photos restored in this post -- forum software no longer allows >10 -- extra photos moved to Darren's next post -- vtsteam)

[Divided he ad]

Looks like your Mig works well Darren.... I used to be able to weld like that... Haven't tried for years!

I must get a mig!

Looks like your having fun with the new tools anyway 


mmmmm.... Just noticed Eric's been busy   

  Pretty funny.... Just found it typing this post... No relation to the topic.... Sorry!


Angle plates... Got 2 recently... From uncle Bogs I haven't used them yet... Maybe you can inspire me to use them somewhere? I've yet to see them being used on anything (Where's Bernd... Bet he has some pic's of this kind of thing..... He uses all sorts of cool clamping methods  )



Glad to see you have certainly found you feet here Darren 



Ralph.

[Brass_Machine]

Not a bad weld for 10 years off. Actually, that is a very nice weld for that amount of time.

BUT....

You gotta clean up the bandsaw! 

Eric

[Darren]

Not a bad weld for 10 years off. Actually, that is a very nice weld for that amount of time.

BUT....

You gotta clean up the bandsaw! 

Eric

Thanks Eric, I was pretty surprised myself being an unknown welder and all.

And what ya mean clean the bandsaw, what's wrong with it, cut's dunnit 
Don't ya tink I got enuf on me plate lad.....

[Brass_Machine]

Thanks Eric, I was pretty surprised myself being an unknown welder and all.

And what ya mean clean the bandsaw, what's wrong with it, cut's dunnit 
Don't ya tink I got enuf on me plate lad.....

I am 'trying' to get my welds to that state... One day (hopefully before I start the trike build)

ummm. The plate is full son, cause you took much from the buffet!

But yeah, it cuts.      I will give you slack cause of all the cool stuff you are doing. 

Eric

[Darren]

(photos and description continued here from first post -- vtsteam)

Sorry missed a couple of pictures. I cleaned them up ready for welding on the belt sander and used an angle grinder with a flap disk on the angle iron.

Now then, the welder.
I have not welded anything for well over 10yrs, maybe longer. But full of the confidence that often lets me down, I was brave and just welded the webs on. No trials, no testing the welder just the old brain digging up some past exp, set the settings and welded.

This was the first weld. I'm chuffed,    it could have been a bit hotter for this thickness, up another setting on the welder. But good enough all the same.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Back on the shaper to be finished off. Oops, it's a bit long, the shaper doesn't go that far back. This is an issue cos the cutter won't drop down properly after the return stroke. Due to the spacing of the bolt holes I couldn't make it shorter.

So back to the miller for a little alteration.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

And here we are so far for tonight......it's supprising how un-flat and un-square these angle are. The shaper had some work to do.
If you want to make one of these, try to find some thicker angle to give a little room for machining it flat and square.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  


************************************************************
(actual post here -- vtsteam):




The thing is Eric, I went looking for something specific. Didn't find it but did find something else that I just couldn't leave behind.
So I went somewhere else to find Mr Specific, and so on....I wasn't looking for a shaper, I was told the chap had a miller for sale...but there ya go...what would you have done? 

On welding, what welder do you have. I've had a few, took me a few to find one that worked...well they all worked but you know what I mean....
My last one was a dream to use, it looks like this new one will be similar, too early to tell yet...fingers crossed 

[Bernd]

Jessssssssssss I'm gone for a couple of hours to watch some shows on TV and you guys write up a storm.

Darren, nice job on that angle plate. Next time you cut angle plate like that make sure you lay both legs of the angle into the vise and start cutting on the 90 degree corner. That way the blade has a shorter cut and it's faster too. If you don't understand I'll show by taking a pic of mine as to how I cut angle stock. And that weld looks nice by the way..

I bought a Miller 210 MIG a couple of years ago. Had never welded before. I built a 7000lb gross vehicle weight trailer to haul things. Take a look at my web site here.

Ralph, your putting me on the spot here so late at night asking for something I use an angle plate for. Now I need to search the archives 

Bernd

[Brass_Machine]

Jessssssssssss I'm gone for a couple of hours to watch some shows on TV and you guys write up a storm.

...

That'll teach you to walk away! 

  Resistance is futile 

Anyway, I have an el cheapo MIG welder. THIS ONE Got it for really cheap (free). Figured I could learn on it.

Eric

[Bernd]

Ya I know resistance is futile. That's why I'm back on at 10:00PM to check on you guys.

Well hey the price was right. Mine was $900 more than the price on that. I also have a spool gun to do aluminum. Works quite well.

Bernd

[Brass_Machine]

I want a miller! Or even a Lincoln. Gonna start saving for one.

So your miller can do aluminum? Very cool.

Eric

[Darren]

Anyway, I have an el cheapo MIG welder. THIS ONE Got it for really cheap (free). Figured I could learn on it.

Eric

Well it should have the power Eric, I always found lower powered, say up to 140A esp 100A and below gave mediocre results.

My Cemig was 160A and was lovely to use, mind you it cost £1,200 over 10yrs ago. The one I have now is a Sealey 210A, again not at the cheaper end of the market.

[Darren]

I want a miller! Or even a Lincoln. Gonna start saving for one.

So your miller can do aluminum? Very cool.

Eric

My miller does ally, don't yours?




Oh, you mean one of these.....

You might want to have a scout around here Eric.....http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=881

[Bernd]

So your miller can do aluminum? Very cool.

Eric

Yes it does. You need the gas, I think it was Argon and the spool gun. Reason for the spool gun is that it'll wad up if you try to push it through the long hose. With a spool gun it's right near the tip. Then it's a matter of adjusting speed and power. I've been able to weld as small as 1/8" plate aluminum. It'll dig out some of the pics of a job I did for myself.

Bernd

[Darren]

A little update on the angle plate project

I had two things to do with this project.
Firstly I needed to machine the other side of the angle plate and secondly I wanted a "sacrificial" top plate. I'll explain why in a mo.

So first I needed to be able to mount it to the shaper to face the other surface. For this I need some mounting holes.

Here you can see me drilling out the bulk of the material to give the cutter an easier life.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Then I attacked it with a milling bit, looks like a rat's chewed it rather than a precision bit of machining.
TBH I struggle with milling, I'm not sure if it's me or my miller, I just can't seem to get on with it? I could really do with some tutoring.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Now to mount the top/sacrificial plate

This plate turned out to be so hard it chewed up drill bits in an instant, even the center drill couldn't touch it. No wonder I couldn't mill it to make T-Nuts the other day, it just ripped the tips off instantly !! This explains it. On the other hand the shaper cuts it fine with no problems.
Can anyone enlighten me to what it could be? It's some sort of steel, I used it to make the webs for the angle plate. Cuts fine on the bandsaw and welded ok too.
But drill or mill it no can do...!

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

So back off to the bandsaw to cut a piece off another bar

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

The newly cut top plate was clamped to the angle section and drilled in four places for fixing, Then it was countersunk.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

The four holes in the angle plate were tapped 6mm

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

And the top plate was mounted

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

I decided to cut two elongated 6mm slots and drill and tap two 6mm holes, These go right through both sections.
Again the milling was precarious, I broke two milling cutters doing this....not good..

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Both ends were squared

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Now mounted back on the shaper to take the top surface off

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

As you can see the shaper does a pretty good job, it's totally flat in all directions and this is just the rough cut, need to do a final finish yet but will wait till the side has been done first.
Also note the top plate over hangs at the back onto the shaper bed to act as a locator. This is to make life easier in positioning the angle plate square after it has been removed from the machine.
If the work to be carried out needed to be ultra critical the top surface could have a very slight skim taken off first to ensure it's absolutely true.
Other wise it would need to be re-cut to square it off properly, either that or take an awful long time setting it up with a dial gauge.

(final photo for this post moved to Darren's next post -- vtsteam)

[Bernd]

Darren,

Could be the crust that's on that metal. Oxidation is sort of abrasive. Take a piece of that metal and clean it up with the shaper. Then try drilling. If it still doesn't drill properly I was wrong in on the first sentence.

A comment on this project. It's looking real good. I have a feeling it's going to be a vise for the shaper? 

Do I have any takers for a bid? 

Bernd

[bogstandard]

Bernd I think is perfectly correct on this one.

That looks like a piece of cold rolled steel, and the outer skin, once oxidised over (rusted), can become hard as glass. Once you can break thru the hard very thin skin, usually no further problems occur. You should treat it as you do with a cast iron casting. If you need to drill it in its rusty state, just knock the skin off with a grinder first, in the area you want to drill.

John

[Darren]

(continued from Darren's last post -- vtsteam)

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

All that needs doing now is to finish off all the sides, clean it up and give it a lick of paint.....then I'll use it for what I have in mind   

*******************************************************

(current post)

Thanks guys,

I'll take the crust off with the shaper and see how it drills.....

Now off to find out what cold rolled is, (rolled to thickness cold rather than hot  I assume, but why?)

Edit:

Wiki says cold rolling is a method to not only change the thickness of metal but also to harden it and relieve stresses. It also makes it more brittle at the same time.
Three stages depending how squeesed it is,

"Cold rolled metal is given a rating based on the degree it was cold worked. "Skin-rolled" metal undergoes the least rolling, being compressed only 0.5-1% to harden the surface of the metal and make it more easily workable for later processes. Higher ratings are "quarter hard," "half hard" and "full hard"; in the last of these, the thickness of the metal is reduced by 50%"

[bogstandard]

Cold rolled is 'usually' identified by a dark surface skin, with a slight radius on the edges of the material, ie, they are not square but have a slightly rounded profile. Most of your angle irons and  flat strip and such are cold rolled.

http://www.efunda.com/processes/metal_processing/cold_rolling.cfm

The problem with them is that if left to corrode the skin can get rather hard, and in certain cases delaminate from the parent metal leaving behind a very rough surface.

John

[Darren]

Thanks John,

This troublesome piece deff has a pronounced curve to its edge. Also coming from the scrappy it's quite corroded so looks like it's been there a while, and of course it was somewhere else before that.

At least I have some idea how to deal with such pieces now, ta 

Learn a little every day 

[Bernd]

Bogs,

You must have different angle than we do here. The angle I've used has all been hot rolled. It has a dark balckish-blue tint to it and a bit of scale. I've never seen cold rolded angle here unless it is of the smaller angles.

Bernd

[vtsteam]

This is the first of several good older threads, ruined by PhotoBucket, that I'm going try to restore the photos for. I don't have photos for a lot of wonderful older threads that they trashed, just a few that I happened to have downloaded in the old days for interest sake.

I think threads like this are still of interest to a lot of newcomers, hence the attempt at photo restoration.

6/14/25 Done.