Hack saw and a gas bottle, whimsical bicycle project!

[John Hill]

DSCN0318 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

A cargo bike project, so far.  Two land-fill bikes and a piece of exhaust tube so it is not especially light or high tech.   

Acetylene is out of the question for the home shop nowadays and this was the first project I have tried to do with LPG/Oxygen which has not gone well, in fact the joints look very poor and with all the messing around the frame is not exactly 'true' so this project might all turn to custard!

I feel I should drop the front end by resetting one join which will level the horizontal member, tilt the seat post forward a little and increase the rake, all of which I think would be improvements. So I will be doing that.

There will be a plywood box, about as big as a supermarket trolley, fitted in front of the rider.  Google "Bakfiets".

P.S. the second piece on the front steering head will possibly just get cut off if the bike feel rigid enough.

[dsquire]

John

Now this will be interesting. I will be watching this close. It is funny, I have always liked bikes that were different than normal but I had never seen or herd of "Bakfiets" before. It looks like a very interesting concept. I have 3 bikes sitting out back, Hmmm. 

Cheers 

Don

[BiggerHammer]

I have seen the trikes with storage BEHIND the rider. Never seen the Bakfiets style before. Just looking at one makes me think that if I tried to ride it I would manage to have some horrible wreck with squealing tires and lots of explosions. Not sure how I would manage to make a bicycle explode, but with my luck I am sure I could manage.    I think I would have to go with one of the trike models. Three wheels just looks safer with that much cargo capacity.

While I was stationed in Korea I did witness some amazing feats of material transportation. I own one of those big American pickup trucks and I don't think I could transport as much stuff as some of those guys over there could move on a bicycle.

Some examples here.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/03/extraordinary-loads-on-ordinary-bikes-slideshow.php

Not all of these are of Korea but it gives you a good idea of the things I have seen.

Also good luck with the build. It looks to present some interesting and fun (I have an odd definition of fun I guess) challenges.

[John Hill]

I have considered a trike but they are, in my humble opinion, a poor substitute for the elegance of a two wheeled vehicle!  According to what I have read the cargo box behind the steering makes a huge difference to the stability and the handling of the bike, time will tell!

My little ute is much smaller than a typical American pickup and is just a bit too small to lay a sheet of 8 x 4 flat in the back but even it is quite big enough for our size parking spaces!  I must mention that this town we have moved to is flat as a pool table and with wide streets a 'full size' pickup would fit in quite well!

[madjackghengis]

Hi John, having built bicycles in my youth, and having built many motorcycles even up to finishing the restoring of what would be an antique, if any two of the parts had ever been on the same motorcycle, I have to wonder what you mean about "acetylene being out of the question for the home shop".  Is it restricted now, as too dangerous or something?  I only use mine occasionally, but when I need it, nothing else will do, and I have a full and complete welding set up.  By the by, I'm interested in how this build turns out, it should be interesting looking and hopefully useful as well.    Cheers, Jack

[DaveH]

John,

A little off topic  

Acetylene is out of the question for the home shop nowadays

Why is this, is it considered too dangerous?

DaveH

[John Hill]

We used to be able to get a cylinder of acetylene, take it home and keep it as long as we liked paying only for the fill ups on an exchange system. But they stopped that as people were taking the cylinders home and bringing them back  years later!  Nowadays we have to pay a monthly rental on the cylinders the price of which puts acetylene out of the question for most home shops. We still have to rent the oxy bottles but they are much cheaper. Most home shops around here either do without gas or use oxy/lpg.

Owning the cylinders is possible but where I live it would cost $50 to transport the cylinder for filling.

Oxy/lpg is much different to use than oxy/acetylene, there is plenty of heat and it will melt (burn?) the steel tubes of the bicycle frame if there is too much oxy, the secret to brazing with it seems to be to heat from the other side which is rather difficult working with tube.  New skills to learn.

[John Hill]

first test by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

First test,  handling is, shall we say, 'sedate' and I could tell the frame is not properly aligned.

[sbwhart]

What a great looking bike John. 

Stew

[Bogstandard]

John,

That sure is a novel project, but I would personally like to see another wheel, especially when trying to carry a lathe or mill around in the box.


John

[Rob.Wilson]

    now that looks MAD  John ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Rob

[raynerd]

I really want to ride around my village on that  Nice one John.

[John Hill]

John,

That sure is a novel project, but I would personally like to see another wheel, especially when trying to carry a lathe or mill around in the box.


John

Too true John, so I went out and did another trial this time with the Adept lathe on board. Passed with flying colours!

[DaveH]

Hi John.

A really Mad Mod that

DaveH

[John Hill]

Some progress...


bakfiets by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

I just need to finish off the box then take it all apart for preparation and painting...

[dsquire]

John

Well it looks like you have really got down to business with your Bakfiet. When you get it all painted up it should look pretty spiffy. Just one question now John, will you allow SWMBO to use it to run for the weekly groceries or will you have to perform that task? I'm glad to see that you are taking this retirement thing seriously and getting caught up on some of these important tasks that you never had time for when you were working. 

Cheers 

Don

[doubletop]

John

As suggested "Bakfiets" was Googled and............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cy0UmakZck

I was looking for the gas bottle part of the build and my initial thoughts were that there's plenty of room for a steam plant in that front carrier and as it can take the weight of an Adept lathe a steam plant would not seem to be a problem.  I now now assume that to be the reference to the acetylene issue in NZ and your use of oxy/LPG.

Regardless, we await the video of your field testing, I'm sure some cones can be found...........

Pete

[jcs0001]

John:

Great project.  This style of cargo bike seems to be quite a bit more practical than a bike with saddlebags or a trailer.  We use saddlebags and/or a trailer but it is hard to get a lot of groceries or bigger things in them and the trailer is a bit wide considering the traffic in our area.  I've seen these on display in Vancouver, B.C. but never ridden one - did you gear it down quite a bit?

Some are built with seats for young children - that way the rider can keep an eye on the little ones.  We used to use a bike trailer meant for transporting 1 or 2 children but I flipped it one day after hitting some road debris at high speed.  No injuries but it scared me and daughter.  That was some time ago as our daughter is now an adult.

Thanks for posting.

John.

[John Hill]

No John, I havent ridden one yet, except a few trials up the street and back with this one.

I have not paid much attention to the gearing as yet and right now I have no derailer gear (it was broken on the old bike frame I used) but I do have 5 sprockets at the rear and 3 on the front so there are plenty of ratios to choose but I do have to manually move the chain and adjust the chain length.  I expect once I find the appropriate ratio I will be leaving it on that as a single speed bike.   There is a wheel with a 3 speed hub gear on my junk pile and that might be an alternative

[jcs0001]

John:

After replying to your thread I was downtown and saw the first Bakfiets in our town.  It was three wheeled with two at the front.  The fellow had three kids in it - not toddlers but not too big.  He imported it from Holland for about C$1800.  Beautiful bike but also a beautiful price.  Sure seems practical if it isn't too hilly.  He had got rid of his car and figured he could save the $1800 in fuel/insurance over less that 2 years.

Good luck with the remaining finishing items.

Bye for now,

John.

[doubletop]

................. I do have to manually move the chain and adjust the chain length.  I expect once I find the appropriate ratio I will be leaving it on that as a single speed bike.   There is a wheel with a 3 speed hub gear on my junk pile and that might be an alternative

If you rig up some sort of idler and tensioner you won't need to adjust the chain length and then have the option of any of the 15 ratios, albeit you will need to get off and get you hands dirty to change gear. When you are hauling that lathe around you can have a low ratio.

Pete

[John Hill]

Dont think the idea hasnt cross my mind Pete!  I do have the tensioning part of the derailer I could use..

[doubletop]

With the single speed thing that is going on at the moment the cyclists use these to convert their bikes.

http://www.torpedo7.co.nz/torpedo7/catalogindexsearch.do?org.apache.struts.taglib.html.TOKEN=eaa989514646d10378265c0486638e58&formAction=search&searchString=tensioner&brandString=

Of course it's got to be a DIY job with the bits you have

Pete

[andyf]

.....There is a wheel with a 3 speed hub gear on my junk pile and that might be an alternative

I've got a 3-speed Sturmey Archer hub gear on the 35 year old bone-shaker I use for shopping, John. They are pretty bomb-proof, so if the wheel is the right size for your frame it might be worth trying. I doubt you will be competing in the Tour de France on your bakfiets, so most of the ratios offered on a fancy derailleur could be a bit redundant. One ratio for puffing uphill, one for on the flat and one for racing downhill with the wind in your hair (if any) should be enough.

Andy

[Baldrocker]

Been toying with the idea of a  3-speed Sturmey Archer with a 3 ring front de-railler on my roundtuit
electric trike, anyone got any thoughts?
br

[andyf]

hat would give you 9 speeds, br. Might be simpler to make do with eight: http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs

Andy

[doubletop]

hat would give you 9 speeds, br. Might be simpler to make do with eight: http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs

Andy

Thanks for that, they've moved on in the 50years since I last had a bike with Sturmey Archer

Pete

[John Hill]

hat would give you 9 speeds, br. Might be simpler to make do with eight: http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs

Andy

Andy, I fear that new hub would break the $5 budget for this project!

[John Hill]

Been toying with the idea of a  3-speed Sturmey Archer with a 3 ring front de-railler on my roundtuit
electric trike, anyone got any thoughts?
br

I had been thinking about that too as I still have a workable front derailer!

[John Hill]

With the single speed thing that is going on at the moment the cyclists use these to convert their bikes.

http://www.torpedo7.co.nz/torpedo7/catalogindexsearch.do?org.apache.struts.taglib.html.TOKEN=eaa989514646d10378265c0486638e58&formAction=search&searchString=tensioner&brandString=

Of course it's got to be a DIY job with the bits you have

Pete

Pete, I have the tensioner from the busted derailer and I think even my shop skills would be adequate to mount it.

[doubletop]

Pete, I have the tensioner from the busted derailer and I think even my shop skills would be adequate to mount it.

John

That was the idea, I hadn't expected you to spend money, You are a Kiwi, the bits you have and some #8 and away you go, especially as we now know the front derailleur is working you at least have a 3 speed, albeit with somewhat wide spacing. The link was by way of inspiration.

Pete

[John Hill]

Been toying with the idea of a  3-speed Sturmey Archer with a 3 ring front de-railler on my roundtuit
electric trike, anyone got any thoughts?
br

If you are using the front derailer you will need to use the narrow derailer chain which will not fit the thick sprocket on the Wormy Starcher, no doubt there will be a solution to this, maybe even derailer sprockets will fit the hub, but it is something I still have to learn.

[doubletop]

If you are spending money it looks like they do a cassette version to take your existing cluster, look at CS-RF3. But why you'd want a 9 sprocket cassette on a three speed hub escapes me unless you want bragging rights for 81 gear ratios (9x3x3)

[Baldrocker]

John.
Another possible problem with using three sprocket front with single rear
could be chain alignment on changing sprockets, may have to mock-up to try the idea.
br

[John Hill]

On the road at last!


bakfietstest2 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr


bakfietstest by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

I decided to go for the Ye Olde look of the famous Raleigh Jungle Bike,  I had to make a couple of more trips to the tip to get the 'right' parts and I had to make adapters for the cottered crank to fit in the frame which had been made for a one piece cranks.  Eventually all the bits came together including the 3 speed Sturmy Archer hub which works very well.  The SA rear axle has a weird 13/32 26TPI thread and one nut was stripped so the next task is to find a suitable nut or get really keen and make a tap.

The caliper brakes are really poor, the frame has lugs for cantilever brakes on the rear but the brake blocks do not line up with the rim.

[Pete49]

John the thread for most bikes is a special thread, why I don't know.  On the oz ebay site there is a guy that sells the taps and dies at reasonable prices but again it would wreck your budget. Should be plenty bike bits at the tip
Nice job and got me thinking about a motorised version 
Pete

[John Hill]

Yes Pete, they called them 'cycle' threads!  The stripped one is even an oddity among them as 13/32 is bigger than the usual cycle axle.

[sbwhart]

Nice job John, 

I bet you get the job of fetching the weekly shop now.

 


That weard thread is a British Standard Brass thread you can still get the taps and dies, try Tracey tools http://www.tracytools.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_3   

I think they will ship to your neck of the woods

Stew

[John Hill]

Nice job John, 

I bet you get the job of fetching the weekly shop now.

 


That weard thread is a British Standard Brass thread you can still get the taps and dies, try Tracey tools http://www.tracytools.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_3   

I think they will ship to your neck of the woods

Stew

Brass thread you say Stew?  I will go and check my stock of weird brass bits!  Right now there is only a thin lock nut on one side and I would really like to get something stronger on there.

[Bluechip]

I doubt if it is Brass Thread assuming it's a genuine bicycle spindle ..

B S Cy is 26 tpi 60⁰ with rounded crests/ roots

B S B is 26 tpi 55^o WF

I have come across B S Cy in all sorts of wierd OD's .. on motor bikes ..  it's what they did ..  

Have a trawl in this ... BSCy or CEI ..

http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/thread.html



Dave BC

[metalmad]

Thats fantastic
Pete

[John Hill]

I doubt if it is Brass Thread assuming it's a genuine bicycle spindle ..

B S Cy is 26 tpi 60⁰ with rounded crests/ roots

B S B is 26 tpi 55^o WF

I have come across B S Cy in all sorts of wierd OD's .. on motor bikes ..  it's what they did ..  

Have a trawl in this ... BSCy or CEI ..

http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/thread.html



Dave BC

Fortunately I didnt find anything in my brass bits box,  if I cant get a nut I will have to make a tap.

[andyf]

John, the nuts can still be had in the UK and US - google "Sturmey Archer left axle nut". But shipping to NZ might not fit with the low-cost aspects of your project.

Would it not be simpler to screwcut a nut on the lathe than to screwcut, gash flutes and heat treat a tap?

Andy

[John Hill]

It would be easy Andy but I would have to first make a threading tool small enough for 13/32"    I am also a bit wary of making a nut that might mangle the axle threads.

I will be calling in to the local bike shop today, we are not usually compromised regarding parts for things like bicycles and he even managed to produce two crank cotters for me last week,  so fingers crossed.