Flames and flame suckers and eaters

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madjackghengis:
Hi Bill, I hadn't even considered that, but it certainly sounds dead on target. I've been long considering how my little flamesucker could achieve some 2500 revs just by pressure changes caused by heat conduction. I had conjectured harmonics, with it acting with air as the fluid, and heat essentially being "conducted" through it to the cylinder, but the plasma is the logical explanation of how. :coffee: cheers, Jack

NickG:
Didn't know about that Bill, but it seems to make a lot of sense. Glad you agree about the condensing too quickly as well, as I said, I'd seen that mentioned before somewhere. Interesting stuff.

What I would find interesting would be the relative power outputs of two engines - 1 flame licker and 1 stirling with the same bore and stroke, same flame. I know there would be many many variables but I'm interested to know which has more power. The first relies on cooling that volume of plasma which when is first sucked in is at more or less atmospheric pressure then rapidly cooled. We know the power stroke is pretty short and that effectively the stirling engine has 2 power strokes per revolution instead of 1, but the latter relies on heating and cooling the same, changing volume of air by conduction - can this produce as high an overpressure as the cooling plasma produces an under pressure? I can't see how but then you have 2 per rev instead of just 1. Has anybody ever seen a stirling with pressure gauges on both hot and cold end? Would it even be possible.

Sorry for going off topic Madjack.

Nick

BillTodd:
It would be an interesting experiment Nick. Both engine types have a very low efficiency, so you may just be measuring which is the lowest :)

--- Quote ---We know the power stroke is pretty short and that effectively the stirling engine has 2 power strokes per revolution instead of 1, but the latter relies on heating and cooling the same, changing volume of air by conduction
--- End quote ---
The Stirling's conduction is somewhat aided by the stirring action of the displacer and, if the displacer is perforated, it also adds surface area to aid the conduction.

madjackghengis:
Hi Nick and Bill, I don't consider it off topic, I am simply wanting those of us who are building and experimenting to put our heads together, and get better acquainted with the facts we deal with, so we improve our product. We are all amateurs to some degree or another, and yet we all have professions which have taught us some serious science and knowledge. We don't advance our technology by subsidizing it from government or anywhere else, but by using our noodles and trying new things, looking at the results, and seeing if there's some new facts we haven't encountered yet, or still haven't understood. We, the kind who are on this forum, are the wave of the future technology, and our common interests improve our work.
The "greens" of the world are dependent on the idea that the government is going to find the right place to put our money to make life better, yet history shows this has never ever happened before, so it won't happen this time either. We have to make things better, or accept things as they are. If we were going to do that, we would watch the tube instead of making engines and such. The internal combustion engine is a direct relative of flame suckers, they gave rise to it, and we are investigating innovation. Someone like us is going to come up with the next generation prime mover, and we must do what we do, for such a person to come into existence. I like hanging out with like minded people, and our discussions are our way of gathering as engineers and discovering our own future. It's nice to have this tool to do it across borders, languages, and cultures. I don't want to teach everyone, I opened this column to teach a few some things I know, but even more, to elicit information from all of you out there also on this line, and opening my own eyes to things I haven't thought of. Nick, I think you're idea is a good one, as stirlings are indeed being brought back into real world work, and it's quite possible other abandoned technology simply needs a boost from some of what's been learned since it was abandoned. I just want to build engines, and maybe come up with something novel, but I would be quite happy if we found a way to make use of old technology. Nothing in the "green house" of save the planet is new, all of the technology was discovered a hundred years ago. Solar cells, windmills, electic cars, steam power, fuel cells, all of its old technology, just dusted off. Might as well have fun while we're working, shouldn't we? Cheers, Jack

BillTodd:

--- Quote from: madjackghengis ---So, to start it off, many have asked about flame propagation, and how flames enter the cylinder,
--- End quote ---
I've just been it the 'meditation' room thinking about this:

Since the plasma is conductive and moving it might be possible to improve the inlet with a ring magnet - thus forming a sort of plasma conduit (yes, I can feel the tips of my ears getting pointy as I type ;) :borg: ) The magnet could also help to seal a steel valve sheet over the hole.

Once inside the cylinder, good highly polish surfaces would help to keep the plasma hot (by reflecting those energetic photons back into the centre) while the valve closes.

Bill

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