Author Topic: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)  (Read 16216 times)

Offline John Hill

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"Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« on: March 10, 2011, 02:44:46 AM »
Bogs, it is here but what the heck do I do with it?

"4, probation
Before probation erasure machine each part of pickling oil, spreads lubricating oil on the outside dew metal surface."


Please go to the airport immediately and bring some pickling oil with you! :scratch:
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 03:03:23 AM by John Hill »
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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..."
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 02:53:51 AM »

Yes, the new mill has arrived!


DSCN0295 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr
First this sinister swaddled figure appeared outside our new garage...






DSCN0297 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr
....then this nice man arrived with his truck and little crane, pallet truck too....




DSCN0296 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr
.....and he left me these very heavy parcels....


DSCN0298 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr
.....just a few minutes with his pallet truck and here we have the new mill standing at the foot of my lathe. I think that will be a good position?

This man had driven down from Christchurch, the site of the recent earthquake, we offered him coffee and he told us about his wrecked house and his family situation.  Thousands of people are like that just 50 miles from here, it sounds like another world and with up to 300 after shocks per day they are all getting really ground down by it all.  It took them 12 years to destroy Kabul and the pictures of central Christchurch look just the same after only 15 seconds!



« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 03:06:08 AM by John Hill »
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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..."
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 02:59:04 AM »
The machine looks great and is all I expected,  well maybe not the manual which is barely intelligible!!!!  :scratch:

The tool box is nothing to write home to mother about either, there is a handle for the knee and for the quil though there seems to be only one of those. :scratch:  There is also a dinky little toy oil can, the kind that falls over unless it is really full but it is painted the same nice blue as the mill! Two standard Chinese wooden handled screw drivers but not a single spanner though there must be a dozen or so hex heads that are part of regular use and adjustment... :scratch:

The parts diagrams are not too bad though and I have managed to identify a few of the controls by studying them.  

But the DRO is a total mystery to me! :doh:

Bogs, please hurry and get here soon and show me what to do with this, I will even let you put your hand on Sally Shaper.

Seriously though John, I expect to have a million questions in the near future, but first I have to get it down off that dunnage.

John
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 03:02:55 AM by John Hill »
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 03:39:23 AM »
Wow John  :bugeye:  drool drool drool drool:-  that looks one buitiful bit of kit, your machining will take on an all new dimension now:- you'll get some fun out of that.

Enjoy

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

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Offline Davo J

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 03:56:39 AM »
That was quick John. :bugeye:
My mill (HM52) came with only one handle for the knee and ram as well, it's their way of saving money.
With the DRO, DRO Pro's have some good video's on their site to watch.
Always a good day getting a new machine, have fun.

Dave

Offline dsquire

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 03:59:38 AM »
John

Congratulations on your new arrival. I expect that your face is probably beaming just like a proud papa. You have worked for it, you have earned it, now all that is left is to use it and enjoy carving all those little goodies out of metal blocks. It looks like it will be a good fit with Sally Shaper and the rest of your machines.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 04:09:32 AM »
That my boy was a lot easier than you thought it was going to be. Always be a pessimist until the job is done, then you feel super happy after it all goes so easily.

Because of it's larger size, maybe semi industrial, mine came ready to go except for a light sticky oil on the table. No dragon grease, no swarf anywhere, gibs set up perfectly etc etc. In fact, I still haven't adjusted the jibs, even after 2.5 years. I just keep it slightly over lubed and it has taken care of itself.

One thing I have noticed, you have the same sort of spindle brake on the head.

On mine, The chuck guard had an interlock switch that was a real PITA. while machining with the guard in position, any slight movement of the guard switched the machine off. I know it is against all safety rules, but I repositioned the interlock switch so that it was operated by the brake handle's first movement, before the brake came on. That way, as you press the handle, power is switched off to the motor first then you apply the brake all in one easy movement. Chester UK started to do that on their new 836 machines after I showed it on their website, they now have two switches, one on the guard and one on the brake. Maybe you could emulate that.

Once you get the head upright, then you can make the decision if you still want it up on dunnage or not. As I said, the spindle brake and controls, for me, were perfect with the machine on the floor. I use a high stool that puts my body in the same position as if I am standing, so that is how I wanted my machine to be. Maybe you would prefer the higher reach.

Because you haven't had a mill before, I don't suppose you will notice the difference between a small benchtop job and the one you have. With everything being so rigid, most of your cutting will be as smooth as silk and you will get great surface finishes, whereas on smaller machines, you really have to work hard to obtain the same effect.

As for your DRO, read up as best as you can on it, and go thru all it's little features, trying them out a few times until you get the hang of them. It isn't just there to show where you are, those extra features really do make machining certain things a lot easier. The PCD function especially, as you can plonk a ring of holes down, any size and number of holes (within reason) perfectly, wherever you want them.

So what is to be done.

First off, get the head upright and decide if you want it on the floor or not. See if you can extract the drawbar completely in the position it is going in, I can't, my ceiling is too low, I have to tilt the head to get the drawbar out.

Move it to it's final resting place, and do a basic levelling exercise, it will stop your coffee and tools sliding off the table, plus it will also stop flood coolant from pouring off the edge of the table

Then go over it with a fine tooth comb to see if any bolts are loose or missing and everything feels the way it should. Give it a good lube and adjust the gibs for your 'feel' if needs be.

Once you are happy with it where it is and what it feels like, start to get your bits onto it. Then it is playtime.

Later on, after you get used to it, can you look at fitting a cheapo scale on the quill to give you accurate drilling depths, power feeds if needed etc etc.

Just as a point of interest, I myself, and a lot of other people as well, when going to this size of machine mount both the vice and RT on the table at the same time. That works out rather well as it saves having to take off and on all the time, and they are always ready to use.

I hope you really enjoy your new aquisition.


John

BTW, I don't understand about the quill and knee handles, on mine they are two completely different shapes and sizes, so aren't interchangeable. Maybe one is hiding inside the electrical box.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 04:23:35 AM by bogstandard »
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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 04:44:25 AM »
Thanks for kind comments everyone!  It is past my bed time but I am still looking in boxes and 'manuals' trying to figure out what everything does. :ddb:


John, there is no dragon fat on this except a bit on the table and everything seems to be hooked up.  Regarding the handles, the quill handle is a simple shaft with a knob on the end, the fine feed for the quill is a handwheel on the front of the machine.  The knee handle is a big heavy crank type thing.  My comment was with regard to the single quill handle as I expected three or four as would come with a drill press. I took a look inside the electrical box, it all looks very reasuringly neat in there and the ground wire is properly connected which is what I really wanted to check before powering on.


I didnt know there was a chuck guard on this mill?  I must be looking at something and not seeing it. :scratch:

Is the spindle brake the handle on the top of the spindle carrier?  Or is that just for locking the spindle when tightening the draw bar etc?

I am thinking the final resting place will be about where it is, maybe a couple more inches clearance for the lathe, I dont see any need for more clearance than enough to get the lathe tail stock out if necessary, maybe I am overlooking something. I hope I can get one of my new friends in this town to help me getting the dunnage out from under it.

Having hefted the vice onto the bench for examination I can appreciate the attraction for leaving it fitted on the table!

N


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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 04:47:31 AM »
Dave, the knee handle is a dog clutch type thing whereas the ram is just hex heads needing a 19mm spanner.
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Offline Davo J

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 04:58:42 AM »
Thats a different set up to mine. I have the 3 handles on mine but removed 2 because they get in the way, so your not missing anything there.
The spindle brake can be used either way you have said.
I noticed in your other thread you ordered the machine that came with a 2 axis DRO, did you order the 3 axis DRO as an extra or did it come with a 3 axis standard?

Dave

Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 05:02:27 AM »
Dave, three axis display but only two axis scales, I dont know why the did not fit the third axis, maybe it is difficult as I guess you would have to account for both knee  and quill travel as part of 'Z'. :scratch:
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 06:54:01 AM »
John,

Now I understand about the handles. Mine is a single one and actually has a pin protruding from the boss (dog clutch type) so that it can just be pulled out to the side and into freewheel mode, for when you use the fine feed turn handle. I bought a cheapo 19mm ratchet ring spanner for working on the drawbar, and marked it up on each side, 'S' for slacken, 'T' for tighten, so if you do forget to take it off after tightening, once you start the machine, it just rotates around to the motor casing and sits there ratcheting away to itself rather than causing any more damage. DAMHIK.

Your Z axis is in fact divided into two, which I call Z1 (the knee) and Z2 (the quill).

I only ever use the Z2 quill for drilling, never to put a cut on, purely for the sake of rigidity. The more you have the quill protruding, the less rigid the cutter will be. The quill got fitted with a cheapo vernier scale unit to give me accurate drilling depths.

Z1, the knee, got a glass scale, which you should be able to do quite easily as there should be a spare port on the back of your display head to take the input for the third line of the display.

Here is the post that shows where I fitted mine when I converted over from two to three axis display. It was very easy to do, just make sure everything is perfectly in line and square.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2314.msg23273#msg23273

The spindle brake is for when you tighten up or slacken off the drawbar, plus also for when you want to stop the spindle after the power is shut off, mine acts as both a kill switch and spindle stop. That is why I mentioned the height thing, you have to reach up there with both hands at the same time when doing up/undoing the drawbar. My brake handle is turned around so that it protrudes over the side of the head, easier to get to. The brake inside is a very robust car brake shoe affair, just like the brake on my lathe, so dead easy to sort out when it eventually starts to wear

Maybe yours doesn't come with a chuck guard, so I would also expect no interlock switch. There are bound to be differences between each supplier.

If you want any pictures, just let me know.


John

« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 06:55:44 AM by bogstandard »
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Offline arnoldb

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 10:49:23 AM »
That looks like a really nice machine and accessories you have there John.
Happy machining!

Regards, Arnold

Offline Graz

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2011, 10:57:07 AM »
That looks a nice piece of kit  :headbang: happy milling  :thumbup:

Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 01:42:19 PM »
John, the ratchet handle for the 19mm applications is a good idea, I will buy one immediately, it will be the first 'gift' to my new favourite machine!

The quill has a rather nice vernier depth scale behind a window on the the mill head, it will look even 'nicer' if I take the glass off and clean that dirty thumb print on the scale!

Thats a great topic you linked to over on HEM, I will give it a thorough study.

Regarding pictures, I might be posting some myself John, with questions if I come upon things I cannot figure out, something which is inevitable.

However, if I get really stuck and you cant get here could you please send Bandit?  I am sure he knows more about the subject (having watched you) than I do.

John
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 02:42:23 PM »
John,

Get the ratchet type ring spanner that you turn over rather than flick a lever to change direction. Check the size before ordering.

I too have a very nice vernier, but it is rather difficult and long winded to use. All I have to do with the cheapo scale is to touch on, zero, and drill away until the scale tells me the depth I want. If you have holes at different depths and at differing heights to start from, it makes it dead easy, but it is your choice of course.

I too was overwhelmed when I got my first large mill, the one I have. Fortunately, I roughly had a good idea of what to expect, whereas you have a massive learning curve in front of you.

Get your basics learned first.

Climb milling is really a no-no on your machine unless in VERY small cuts, so get to know all about it beforehand.

Learn your types of cutters and what they are used for. You will be mainly using slot drills, end mills and slitting saws, plus of course the old favourite, the fly cutter. So do a bit of a gen up on them.

Learn how to set your vice straight and to tram the head. You did buy extra T-nuts, studs and flanged nuts for mounting your vice and RT, didn't you? Don't be tempted to use out of the scrapbox nuts and bolts, do it correctly from the start, and make up a set of the correct length and size for each type of tooling you are liable to bolt to your table. The table is a precision instrument, and should be treated as such, and chocolate nuts and bolts are not the way to protect it from damage.

Once you have those bits under control, it is playtime.


John
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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 02:53:53 PM »
John,  I had a little introduction to milling on the milling slide on my lathe so I have some idea about climb milling, mind you that lesson cost me one small end mill! :hammer:

I bought one of those Chinese sets of T-nuts and hold downs etc.

Of course I would like to finish eating my breakfast and get right into it but my new shop is really in a terrible state!  ::)
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 05:47:45 PM »
Your best bet John would be to stand back, and take things one at a time, otherwise you will have so much on your plate, you won't know whether to scratch your a**e or pick your nose.

I was in the same position as yourself a couple of years ago and I just plodded on steadily, bringing things up to an operational state as and when needed. Even now I am still sorting thru and finding a few things I forgot. I even had tooling stored outside on the garden swing while I got the insides sorted. I had about ten times as many playthings coming in than you have, I was doing a complete retooling exercise, and it had to be right before I could even think about making anything.

I was chomping at the bit to start making things, but I had to resist otherwise it would have ended up as complete chaos. I concentrated on getting the tooling into the best places for me to get at it while working on the machines. Eventually I started to bring everything online, doing a few jobs here and there while still fine tuning.

Storage for all your bits and getting your benches and worksurfaces sorted is more important than machines and new projects at this time.


John

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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2011, 11:37:31 PM »
Bogs, we are really doing quite well.  I have got my bench covered in aluminium, OK steel would have been better but aluminiun is what I had.  It looks good and I have a decent metal upstand up the back.  I will be much happer soldering etc on this and it will be easier to clean.  I need to build the front and put cupboard doors on before I can call it finished.

I cleaned and lubed the mill today.  That raised a couple of questions, the one-shot oiler is one as I dont see any way of filling it and I guess if I am going to use coolant it is just a matter of pouring that into the sump?

They tricked me with the draw bar which refused to go into the collet chuck, until I took it out and found they had left the plastic sleeve over the thread!

I put the vice on and broke out the new set of hold downs, tee nuts etc.  But they did not fit!  The tee nuts are about two gnats whatsits over width even after I gave the mill table slots a good scrape out.  The obvious thing to do would have been 3 minutes on the shaper but that is still a bit packed away so I took a deep breath and broke your rule!  I clamped the vice on using scraps of metal and bolts that used to be head studs on an Austin Maxi!


Needless to say it trimmed the tee nuts to fit very easily and I think I can claim I know what each of the controls do and no bits are missing.  I should have checked the DRO while I was doing it but it completely passed me by and I didnt even turn it on.
Joohn
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2011, 03:14:12 AM »
John,

The one shot lube on mine, it sits under the table, bolted to the knee casting on the LHS, has a filler cap that screws off on top of the pump unit itself, the cap is almost as big as the top of the unit. A piccy of yours would help. For the spindle lube, usually a little flip up cap job on the LHS of the head, I fitted a drip feed oiler, so it is a matter of flicking it on/off at the start/finish of each days use.

You have to be careful with the flood coolant. You will have to make the decision whether you are going to use it or not before pouring a couple of gallons in there. I use mine very infrequently now, but when it is used, expect to have it going everywhere, I would suggest making up some perspex blocking shields with magnets on the bottom, to stop the cutter throwing it all over the place, it can travel yards. I am lucky, a mate got me some very expensive 100/1 mix water soluable cutting oil that doesn't 'go off' no matter how long it is in the sump. Some of the general purpose ones can easily go sour and start to smell a bit after a time, so you would have to suck the old stuff out of the sump after it has gone off, as it doesn't have a drain hole.

Now you can see why I suggested whether you are going to use it or not.


John
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Offline John Hill

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2011, 03:55:07 AM »
Thanks Bogs, I saw the pump unit under there and there is a sight glass nearby plus a flip top oiler.  I put plenty of oil in there and it run out of the dovetail but nothing showed in the sight glass..  I will get pictures tomorrow.

I put several generous squirts into the oiler on the spindle and after about 10 minutes it came out in several places, I suppose half a squirt every time I use the machine will keep in going to the important spots in there.  I also put plenty directly into every slide including the ram,  I oiled while winding back and forth and eventually got fairly clean oil dripping out so all in all I am quite confident that nothing important is gasping for oil.

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Offline Davo J

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2011, 07:10:19 AM »
A way to keep the coolant going off is to continuously run a fish tank air pump. Any small one will do and it costs near nothing in electricity.
I am not sure about yours but mine has a drain plug on one side to drain the coolant out. If it hasn't got one, It would be easy to add.

I know it's hard to think about pulling apart a new machine, but I did mine and was glad I went through all the ways and screws to give them a clean. I found some of the oil holes where blocked and there was grit in the way oil passages. I also did a bit of debuting while I was there, and after putting it back together it runs nice and smooth.

I was going to post a link to the Grizzly manual which I think is the same machine, but they didn't have one and have now discontinued it.
http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Milling-Machine-w-Power-Feed/G6760

Steve Bedair also did a right up of his mill, and fitted a 4 axis DRO and a riser to it.
http://bedair.org/Mill/6760mill2.html

Dave

Offline DavidA

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 08:40:32 AM »
...I put the vice on and broke out the new set of hold downs, tee nuts etc.  But they did not fit! ...

Exactly what I found with my new set. A few firm strokes with a file cured that problem.

Dave.

Offline kvom

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 10:38:02 AM »
Most of the t-nuts I got with my (used) mill were case-hardened, and I wore out a cheap endmill trying to resize them for my rotab.  I ended up making my own, a task that you'll find to be easy with that mill.  You always seem to have too few t-nuts when you need them.  Last weekend I bought a whole box of tie-down stuff at an auction ($15).  I got about a dozen t-nuts that fit my mill as well as a dozen that are too large.  The main treasure in that lot was a set of mighty-byte clamps.

As for my 2-axis DRO, I find I use it mainly as follows:

1) It has separate ABS and INC settings.  I keep the ABS Y setting zeroed to the fixed jaw of my vise, and the X setting to the vise stop when installed.  So for work that has known dimensioning off the corner of the stock I don't need to use an edge finder.  I use the INC settings for everything else.

2) For center finding, I use the 1/2 function.  I use the center finder on one edge, zero the INC axis (w/o adjusting for the wiggler diameter), then repeat on the opposite side and press the 1/2.  The zero is then in the center of that axis.

My bolt circle function doesn't work for some reason, but I have calculators that give the coords when needed.

Using the knee for depth control will be different than with a benchtop mill.  To set DOC for milling, I touch the tool to the work surface, zero the dial on the knee crank, lock the spindle depth, slightly lower the knee to move the tool off the work, then raise the knee by the amount desired using the dial.  It's quite precise.  For setting DOC for drilling and counter boring, I touch the tool to the work and attach a clamp-on spindle stop to the threaded rod.  Then I raise the spindle, zero the knee dial, and raise the knee by the amount of the desired DOC.

While my mill has a power downfeed, I use it only for boring.  I do all the drilling with the spindle, not the knee.  There's very little "feel" with the knee, and as well it's hard to peck drill with it.

I envy you the coolant setup. 

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: "Mr Bogs, report to the departure lounge..." (New mill)
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 12:28:35 PM »
John,

Here are a few piccies to show a couple of items. You will get all sorts of ideas from people about fitting an auto drawbar wrench to the machine, but I have found it is just as quick with a spanner. I have all the bits to fit one, but I just can't be bothered as I have found it is not necessary, even with a gammy arm. If I had a MT quill, then that would be a different matter.

My 19mm ratchet spanner, marked with an S for slacken and a bit of red marker on this side as well.




T for tighten on the other side




Hung on the side of the head




This is my brake handle with the stop switch linked to it mechanically.

If you notice the motor casing, there are 3 dings. That is how many times in how long I have had the machine that I have forgotten to take the spanner off before starting the machine. If it wasn't a ratchet, it would have hit the motor casing much harder, then as the spindle was still turning, the drawbar would have undone and the spinning tool and collet would have dropped and hit whatever was underneath it, much quicker than you could ever reach the panic button.




The quill (depth drilling) scale.




My autolube tank. Notice the big filler. It takes about 1/2 litre



I overlube my machines, it is cheaper than having to buy a new one, plus you gain better accuracy, so you will notice oil streaks all over the place. 68 slideway oil in the autolube and 32 hydraulic oil for spindle and general lube.

John

If you don't try it, you will never know if you can do it.

Location - Crewe, Cheshire

Skype - bandit175