Author Topic: Making a Wood Beam Engine (Read 25660 times)

Gerhard Olivier · « **on:** January 16, 2011, 12:04:42 PM »

Hi all

I have moved my workshop to a small attic and it is above work - This means that I have a lot less shop time. This build will probably take some time.

Decided to build a wooden beam engine 61/2 inch flywheel with a metal band on the circ. The cilinder I want a smallish bore and a long stroke so it can go very slow???
I decided to make a occilating ratary valve on a eccentric? Main material is to be Mahogony and brass and some bits of cast iron.

The timber was cut to right thickness and then shaped on the fretsaw All the pieces of the flywheel was done first. Then the outer rings glued on the miters with super glue.

Gerhard

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2011, 12:26:50 PM »

Gerhard.
Now, that's different!

I like your style......

Looking forward to steady progress.

David D

saw · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2011, 12:30:40 PM »

Nice.

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2011, 01:11:18 PM »

Thanks David, Saw

Just the last bit of todays progress.

I found a piece of 6 1/2 inch cast iron pipe 1/2 inch wall 500 mm long in the scavinging jard With a lot of efford managed to cut a chunk of the stuff off It really is to hard for my tools,
This fit over the outer edge of my 5 inch chuck . Bored the inside as big as poss to allow 5mm ring cleaned cast iron. And parted of a 18mm wide piece.

On the mill I put a big piece of 18mmPlywood on the RT and mounted the wooden rings - Then I cleaned the outer edges to the same size as the hole in the cast iron - this hole was cut 6mm into the plywood then the ring was used to hold the pieces in the same place and clamped the outer edge to clean up the inner diameter.

The same setup was used to mill the centre piece with the spokes. the spokes are 10mm *10mm so on one end the the spokes had to be reduced as well. The centre of the hub was bored as the same setup as that keeps it concentric.

That is as far as I got today - the fly wheel needs sanding and glueing ( epoxy between the rings - with the joints staggered) Hopfully the epoxy will keep the ring in place. Traditionally the ring would be made to small and the heated and placed while bigger and crimps onto the wooden wheel??? Im not going to try that at all.

Hope this is not to far from the madmodder ideal!!!!

Gerhard

DavidA · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2011, 01:26:06 PM »

Very nice.

Watch it or this lot will have you making replica wheels for a Stephenson's Rocket.

Dave.

arnoldb · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2011, 02:19:17 PM »

Nice one Gerhard - looks good

I'd say a good epoxy should do just fine for holding on the ring.
Are you making the engine double-acting ? - then you can get it to run very slow; the main thing is keeping things in balance and as friction-free as far as possible - from what I've seen on Elmer's wood beam engine, final balancing is done with an adjustable weight moved along the beam.

Regards, Arnold

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2011, 02:22:38 PM »

: Great stuff Gerhard

If thats the flywheel i cant wait to see the rest of the engine

Rob

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2011, 04:35:20 PM »

Hi and thanks Dave Arnold and Rob

Just a small bit of progress- Base A start, the mortice and tennon joints was done with a chisel and mallet.

And the Flywheel glued and sanded and oiled with same raw linseed oil.

Flash is a bit to strong I'll try it with less light again.

The colour is better with this one but it doesn't show the detail.

Any way thanks for popping in.

Gerhard

saw · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2011, 04:42:45 PM »

This looks so nice I cant wait for next chapter.

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2011, 05:53:29 PM »

That's beautiful!

David D

madjackghengis · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2011, 09:57:54 PM »

Hi Gerhard, I don't think you have to worry about complaints about materials when they are worked to turn out as you have the flywheel

I expect that engine is going to turn out to be a fine looking piece of machinery from the way you started. It looks really good oiled up and ready for a hub and a shaft to mount it on. mad jack

NickG · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2011, 04:13:53 AM »

Missed this but will read through it properly soon. Just looking at the pics it looks pretty amazing to me though, I'm useless with wood.

Nick

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2011, 04:19:38 PM »

Quote from: geroli on January 17, 2011, 04:35:20 PM

Very very nice!

Eric

saw · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2011, 05:32:14 PM »

I like...

sbwhart · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2011, 02:54:38 AM »

What a cracking looking job

Stew

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #15 on:** January 20, 2011, 06:59:37 AM »

Hi All I feel a bit better - have to say was abit worried about the wood -Especially as I want to make this like it would have been when wood was about all there was and the metal parts limited to the minimum.

Thanks for kind comments Benni, David, Mad Jack, Nick, Eric and Stew

Just a small bit of progress today

I started with the Base the cross supports where hollowed out with a rasp ( my only yearly exersice)

Then the bearing supports fits on top of that- The bearing i am planning to use is a premade oilite bushing really?? Can anyone see any problems with that???????? The oilite bushing would be clamped to the wood bearing support by a split in the wood and a bolt and nut clamping the parts together. The reason I chose this is that it would look like a greased wood bearing but work like a "propper" bearing

Will post again when I have a pic that would explain better.

Thanks for looking

Gerhard

saw · « **Reply #16 on:** January 20, 2011, 08:04:23 AM »

I realy like your'e progress.

madjackghengis · « **Reply #17 on:** January 20, 2011, 11:12:26 AM »

Hi Gerhard, it looks like you're moving right along and have a plan, which always helps. I would say that with the wood bored for the oilite bearings, and the bearings then bored in situ, you won't have a problem as long as you keep your wood aligned, by ensuring the grain is well considered, as the wood will move and change with humidity and the like. I'd also suggest you seal the surface the bearings will fit in to minimize the wood pulling all the oil from the bushings, and perhaps put in an oiler for each bearing, just a Gitts type oiler will do, but something to allow you to have oil keeping the bushings full while you're actually running it. I'd also use an oil base finish, something like boiled linseed oil, applied many times, and that way the oil from the bushings would be compatable with the finish, and the wood would already have lots of oil making it less absorbant. I am looking forward with great interest, as few ever consider building engines with wood as main support material, but I expect it will look very much like a period engine when you are done.

cheers, mad jack

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2011, 06:19:09 AM »

Thanks Benni and Mad Jack

Mad Jack the oilite do they need oil??? I thought that if you got oil on them they where damaged ?? I think it was John Bogstandard that cut then without any cutting oil as it would have damaged them??? ANy way the way this should have been done was to cut the bearing piece of wood in 2 nearly all the way then put a wedge in the open end and drill the hole with a piece of metal that was red hot , basicly burning a round hole through the wood the burning hardens the wood and slowly rotating the metal keeps the hole round.

As this bearing wears out the open end of the piece of wood would be closed making it tighter again. Animal fat was usually used as grease.

The oilite bushings is only about 3 pound for 16 so I think I will start by making it easy to replace them rather than building in oil cups????? If this is wrong PLEASE shout I would rather change the design now then having to keep messing with it later.

Gerhard

Bogstandard · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:28:21 AM »

Gerhard,

The reason I didn't use any lube, is because oilite bearings contain a thick lubricant actually trapped inside the sintered moulded material, and I didn't want to contaminate that inbuilt lubricant.

They are lubed for life bearings, so shouldn't need any further oiling, unless the bearings overheat, then the lubricant thins out and drips out of the bearing outer skin. The bearing should then be replaced.

For what you are doing with them, I doubt you will wear them out in your lifetime. They are used all over in industry and run in some places on a 24/7 regime, and they can sometimes last for years.

I would suggest you actually wrap the outside of the bearing with something like clear adhesive tape before clamping them in position. A couple of layers at most. This will stop the inbuild lube being wicked out by the wood over time and it will also stop the wood becoming oil stained.

I hope this explains things a little better.

John

andyf · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:21:20 AM »

Gerhard, my book on restoring antique firearms warns against oiling woodscrews so they will go in more easily, saying that the oil makes the wood expand and grip the screws so you can't get them out again. If that's true, some sort of impervious layer between the oilite bush and the surrounding wood seems a good idea.

Andy

Nelson92757 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2011, 07:04:22 PM »

Gerhard
I, myself I think that a sealed bearing would be better with the wood. Knowing how oil changes the look of the wood. And the bearing on that app. will never wear out. Good looking build.
Nelson Collar

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2011, 04:26:03 PM »

Hi and thanks for the replays

John -I seem to remember that was what you said on the RT job that your doing

Nelson- I have a few spare so I ll make them disposable??? ( that is if they ever wear out)

John and Andy - I was Worried that any acidity in the wood may couse problems, my plan is the seal the inside surfuces with a layer of set super glue - this leaves and acrylic layer that seals the wood permanently then just to seal the outside with raw linseed oil like the flywheel. I dont think the packing will get into the sealed surface.

Wating for the Man flu to leave me alone so I can get back to the project.

Gerhard

shoey51 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2011, 03:09:44 PM »

just catching up with this build I like your stile there looks beautiful

cheers Graham

madjackghengis · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2011, 12:40:07 PM »

Hi Gerhard, I suspect John didn't want the thick grease in the oilite bearings washed out with cutting oil. What he said about tape, and also your plan to seal the outside of them, and the inside of the wood will probably be fine, and by filling the rest of the wood with boiled linseed oil, it won't want to leach out the oil in the bushings either. Most electric motors don't use live bearings, but oilite bushings, but put Gitts cups so ten years down the road, you can replace the oil which doesn't last forever. I have replaced many worn out oilite bushings in my life, and they have been the exact cause of the need for repair work each time. At the same time, if you were building a full sized engine with real wood bearings, you'd put cups on it to put lard in, so the heat of the bearings would melt it, and keep everything lubricated, so the cups would look right in place. I've had to locktite or solder oilite bushings someplace they wanted to leave, and had to wash them dry first, and then replace the grease with oil, and they soak it up just like sponges. That said, I have no doubt what ever you choose for a solution will work out fine, as it probably would if you had just bored the wood and used wood bearings. Now I'm just waiting for your next installment, looking to see the engine come into being.

regards, mad jack

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2011, 04:01:29 PM »

Hi ALl thanks for popping in

Cheers Graham and Mad Jack, I think the oil cups woul look good I just dont know how they would have looked like. I decided to make some very plain oil cups like bigish modern ones???? ( see last Pic today and let me know what you think.

Turned the Hub today - I wanted it to be as big in diameter as poss to help with balance but small enough to look balanced!!!!!!!!!!!

The hub is 20mm brass and the 12mm centre with a 12mm by 1mm thread to hold the lock nut. Lock nut is a plain round nut ( when attached you can't see there is a thread) The extention is the spacer between the bearing anf the flywheel. Jusp needs a grub screw.

Then a pic of the flywheel with the hub in place.

And finally a mock up of the flywheel on the base. Note the base is extended on the flywheel side - this is going to be a crane to lift / service the flywheel. And the oil cups in the front.

Thanks again forn stopping in.

Gerhard

saw · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2011, 04:13:37 PM »

I am very exciting to see your'e progress.

madjackghengis · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2011, 09:36:59 PM »

Hi Gerhard, that's some fine looking progress you're making there. That's about what I was picturing as old cups in a wood bearing, I think they look very good against the fine woodwork going on with the flywheel and the framework. I hope you're building a boiler to run this engine as well

I'm interested in seeing how you arrange the beam bits and pieces with it. :beer:cheers, mad jack

Bogstandard · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2011, 04:18:06 AM »

That is looking superb Gerhard, if the rest turns out as well as that, it will be a stunning engine.

Just going a little off topic now.

I made a wooden engine once, but nowhere in your league. It took about an hour to make, and even now runs like the best of them, even though all the green wood I used has dried out and shrunk.

It was held together by a few small screws, superglue and string. Basic tools used were a hand brace with a few drill bits, a hacksaw and a screwdriver. I did cheat on one bit, I used my bandsaw to split a piece of wood down the middle.

Please don't laugh.

It was a competition I organised over on HMEM, where you had to build a finger engine in as short a time as possible (most were made in well under an hour), and no machine tools were allowed, plus a wire coat hanger had to be used somewhere in it's construction. Some of the others were absolutely amazing, and one even disintegrated before your very eyes, to the great enjoyment of everyone.

Bogs

arnoldb · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2011, 11:33:31 AM »

Looks great Gerhard, I like the detailing on the boss to match up with the spokes

The oil cups look just fine to me as well.

Bogs, that's no laughing matter at all! We all know wood is not your forte, but still, making _any_ kind of operational finger engine in an hour is a stretch that I think very few can accomplish.

, Arnold

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #30 on:** January 31, 2011, 12:09:46 PM »

Hi Gerhard

I have to agree with Arnold ,,,,,,

,,, the extra bit of detailing on the boss was time well spent ,,, and the look of brass against mahogany is very pleasing to the old eye balls .

Have you drawn up plans for the engine or are you designing as you go ?

Rob

PS Bogs do you have an EN# OR ANSI # for the material specs you used in your engine build

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2011, 06:14:53 AM »

Thanks chaps

Bogs that is a cool engine. How did you get that flywheel balaned??? Arnold and Rob thanks I wanted to make the boss as big as possible but not bigger than the wood boss - so the cutout was a compromize.

Rob there is a plan it is under the rasp in some of the first pics ( full size in MDF)

Mostly the detail is just made to fit the situation

Gerhard

madjackghengis · « **Reply #32 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:11:24 AM »

Ah Gerhard, that is the best way to build an engine, just making the parts to fit what's already together, and adapting as you go. I believe I'd tie lead weights on the flywheel until it is pretty much balanced, then drill holes and put in lead, and plug the holes with pretty wood. Looking good so far

mad jack

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:10:30 AM »

Hi chaps just to let you all know - im off to Sunny South Africa tomorrow. Going to drink all the Windhoek lager I get my hands on for 10 days.

Will report back after

Cheers
Gerhard

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #34 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:24:31 AM »

Cheers, Gerhard........

Hope you have a great time!

David D

arnoldb · « **Reply #35 on:** February 02, 2011, 03:27:51 PM »

"Going to drink all the Windhoek lager I get my hands on for 10 days"

Gerhard that's some "OK" stuff - been a bit bastardised in SA, as they're brewing it there as well now... Still beats Castle and Black Label hands-down though

Ask 'em for Windhoek Draught or Tafel Lager - Muuuuch better

Where in SA are you going ? - The sun's not fun at the moment - as there's a lot more rain than normal; except for the Garden Route - they have drought

, Arnold on Little Saturday and loads of Tafel

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #36 on:** February 02, 2011, 11:31:43 PM »

Enjoy your trip to SA.

Love the boss and how it matches with the flywheel.

Eric

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #37 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:17:43 AM »

Thanks chaps

Leaving lunch time today

Arnold will try the tafel lager

Always will to try new lager

Going to Germiston (near airport for a big family party -probably about 200 poeple i havent seen in about 10 years) Then to Dikhololo (Game farm about 2 hour north of Pretoria)

Gerhard

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2011, 03:33:46 PM »

Hi ALL back again had a lovely trip, everybody got word about me not having had any Windhoek lager for a long time so there was botlles of Windhoek lager pressed into my hands whenever they where empty.
Just a little progress to report

Have made some Sqaure bolts - There is another thread where Lots of helfull people gave me some hint as to how to make them and how big they should be. I used 8mm brass bar drilled and threaded then moved to the mill and sqaured just a piece then back to lathe to part. John Bogstandard sugested that they should be a bit mismathed in size etc as this would be pre whitworth so I measured but only so it was about 2.5mm thick +- .2mm. Then placed them on the little arbour and cut the sharp bits off and that is it.

The cylinder is to be a 3 inch travel half inch piston with the valve soldered to it
Used the 4 jaw chuck to centre the brass bar and drilled and reamed to 1/2 inch then bored out a indentation to solder the valve plate onto.

That is it for now will post as soon as more happens

Gerhard

saw · « **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:04:15 AM »

This is looking greate

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #40 on:** April 07, 2011, 03:58:23 PM »

Hi all

I have not forgotten this project it is going on but not very fast.

Here is a pic of what I have so far. I can do much mor now without soldering so have started a couple of trial pieces??

Gerhard

saw · « **Reply #41 on:** April 07, 2011, 04:59:19 PM »

Woh, it's looking fantastic, good work.

madjackghengis · « **Reply #42 on:** April 08, 2011, 10:55:26 AM »

Hi Geroli, that wood work looks beautiful, and will make a great back drop for the brass and steel of the engine. Don't be intimidated by the soldering, but do a bit of reading up on it, get or borrow a good torch, and then jump in with both feet. In the end you will get a good piece to finish up, or you will get a piece of scrap and a bit of "earned" education, and you will know more about soldering and what not to do, than you started with. The single most important issue is always cleanliness of the metal surfaces, and good flux, to keep them clean as they get hot. If you're soft soldering, any zinc chloride based flux will work well for you, and it will work well if you are using any of the "soft" silver based solders. For hard silver, use borax or a borax based flux, such as is cheap and easy to come by for brazing. It everything is where it needs to be when it is done, and if gravity is your friend, and holding things in place, the hardest part is the patience to let the biggest lump of metal get hot enough, and that can be gauged by just touching it with the solder while the flame is directed elsewhere. The solder will slide easily across the smooth metal until it gets close to temperature, and then it will want to stick a little bit, this is just moments before you are ready to solder, so at that point, make sure you've got flux on, the parts are in place, keep the heat on, and when the solder flows like water, it will wick into every opening and crevice. Then just take away the heat, admire all sides, ensure you've got good fillets between pieces, as that indicates good solder adhesion, and once it is certainly solid, dump it in water, both to cool it, and to start the flux removal part.
What ever you do, don't let an error dismay you or make you question your ability, no one that works wood that well can't solder, and you will be very happy when it turns out well, and can be machined to go on with the build. With that holiday behind you, everything should make you happy and this build should be just a few solder joints away.

Cheers, Jack

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #43 on:** April 18, 2011, 04:27:14 AM »

Hi all. Madjack and Saw thank for kind coments!!!

Tried to braze but could not get the whole thing up to temp - so cleaned up and silver soldered it
looks ok some photos before and after cleaning it up

Any comment please???? It looks ok but will it take compressed air???

Gerhard

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Author Topic: Making a Wood Beam Engine (Read 25660 times)

Rob.Wilson

Rob.Wilson